667: Random C9 (Game Over!)

[charter]

/confirm

As a side note, I am PUMPED for a seven player game. The thrill of one mistake is pretty sweet and one I haven't had in a long time!

[charter]

vote afatchic

obvscum

[charter]

Jdodge. votes can result in a lynch, but they have many more uses than just lynching people. you can use it to force pressure on people, get conversation started, which is what all this is doing right now.

I am aware. Conversation doesn't just happen because someone places a vote - you have to stir the pot before the true flavour of the soup comes forth.

I see backpedaling here. You first attacked my random vote and now you agree with my defender. Mind you this is early in the game, but this is the scummiest action so far.

I don't think that's the scummiest action so far, I also don't like how you label it as such.

Lastly, I don't like how you tell off Moo for not having content filled posts when other's have posted less content. I get the impression you're looking for an easy fish to fry.

Can you put the number of the game in the title/first post please Sim?

[charter]

I don't see a contradiction there. I think it's bad how he had to come back later and add to his statement, but I don't see contradiction or backpedaling.

If you'll notice, I'm frying everyone on whom I have a lead. As an explanation of my attack on Moo, I ask you to consider this. On whom can I make a better argument? Someone who has posted very little content? Or someone who has attempted to fake adding content? The reason I call Moo's post scummy is that it added nothing to the discussion, but attempted to look as though it did by containing an agreement with a statement already on the table.

You don't necessarily have to have found all the scum by page two. I don't think agreeing is necessarily scummy, because some points need to be reiterated. I'll give you that this one didn't need reiterated. Twice.

[charter]

So... KR is grossly reacting to everything, especially comments directed at himself.

[charter]

So... KR is grossly reacting to everything, especially comments directed at himself.

That's called a defense. When someone attacks you, you're supposed to defend yourself. In a logic game, I do that by showing the flaws in the arguments that state that I am scum. I've given support for all my actions. Where's your support for this accusation?

Note really accusing you, just throwing my opinion out there.

does anyone else see a problem with my post 25 and 41? i think they fit thee situation good.

No. (also I just noticed that your name isn't a bunch of random letters, haha)

unvote, vote Moospiker

Page three is way too early to claim. Clearly fishing for power roles.

[charter]

Note really accusing you, just throwing my opinion out there.

Should be

Not

really accusing you, just throwing my opinion out there.

[charter]

Yes, quite sure Moospiker is scum.

[charter]

I'm voting for who I think is scum. Your explaination for why you asked for a claim is terrible. Unless you can explain a pro town reason for asking for a claim there, I'm probably going to keep voting for you.

[charter]

Yes Moo, using the newbie card in a mini does not work. Plus, it's scumlogic along the lines of not defending youself when someone accuses you.

[charter]

Nope, not OMGUS. I believe JDodge is scum.

Still looking for these reasons. And why you only vote JDodge after he votes for you. You don't give any more reasons why you suspect him, so it seems like the reason you voted was OMGUS.

[charter]

yeah one quick point is that in post 97 by KR that is actually moospikers quote not mine, i got really confused because i didn't remember saying that. but yeah i don't like how he just kinda gave up defending himself and said believe me if you want, but i don't have anything else to say. at first i just got a newbie town feeling from him, but its quickly changing. can we get a vote count before i vote him?

This post screams scum. Every time I've seen someone 'come around' to a case against someone such as the one on Moo, that person has been scum. Need to do a reread before I reevaluate where my vote is.

[charter]

You said you used to have a town feel of him, but it's quickly changing. This changing the read of a player in this manner is used by scum to switch over onto the next hot (and in this case, lynchable) wagon.
It's the manner in which you're changing your assessment that I find to be perfectly in line with how I see scum doing it that is making me suspicious of you. I would understand a sudden change to thinking he's scum based on something (such as asking for a claim too early) but you're doing a gradual shift when Moospiker's posts don't give me town vibes at all, and certainly don't facilitate a slow change over into thinking he's scum.

I think I can do my reread shortly as well.

[charter]

Why did you only express your dislike for his asking a claim after I already did?

[charter]

Asking for claims isn't bad. Asking on page three when there isn't an airtight case is. Asking in a joking manner isn't necessarily either, but this was clearly not the case here.

[charter]

That would have been a good thing to post when the incident happened, not way after.

[charter]

I don't agree that 98 is a bad post. I find that as town I get more fed up and give up much easier than when I'm scum. I think Moospiker is scum for other reasons, but don't much care your reason for voting him however.

[charter]

Can we get a lynch on Moospiker?

[charter]

Can we get a lynch on Moospiker?

can you give your full case on her, im wanting to wait for the replacement before i cast a vote, its always good to get a new perspective on things.

The role fishing. The not doing anything productive this whole game. The being scum.

[charter]

I don't really see the need to give my opinions on everyone. It will let scum know whether to keep my alive or not, if anyone wants my specific thoughts or something, I'm more than happy to provide them.

Gathering from Vi's read on you, you should claim now.

[charter]

@Vi, I gathered from "scummy and nearly useless" that it would not be suprising if you voted Moospiker.

[charter]

Fine, I'll claim. I'm cop.

D

amn!

P

lease, can everyone post a bit more?

Q

uickly?

From page four.

DPQ

. Caeser-shift back a letter = COP.

There you go.

Don't buy this. But that said, there's another acceptable place for my vote, which I'll get on when I get some free time.

unvote

What if I asked you "Can you give me your specific thoughts on afatchic, Vi, Avynil, MM, Moospiker, and JDodge?"

I would call you a smartass and quote my earlier statement for you again.

[charter]

unvote

[charter]

KrisReizer: Rereading, it seems you have explained it sufficiently for me.

afatchic: The point was that he would vote and in the same post be ready to unvote, which felt wrong to me at the time.

Those posts that i picked out was those that stood out to me while i read the game. I didn't particulary search after scummy posts you had done.

On another unrelated note, I currently find Moospiker scummy, partly gut, partly because of the unsubstantiated demand for Krisreizer to claim. I think he currently has 2 votes already, so FoS Moospiker.

I also find starrie lurky. 3 posts, the last of which was three days ago, and next to no content.

Vote starrie

. JDodge hasn't posted in six days.

He only comments on Moospiker asking for a claim after others have said that it was horridly scummy. Also votes for a lurker, not the person he finds scummy. Ironic as he averages one or two very short posts most pages.

Hm. I am unsure about Moospiker. rereading, he doesn't feel as scummy as before.

Flip flops on Moospiker. Moospiker hasn't done anything less scummy since asking for a claim.

Moospiker's post 98 fels very wrong. It is not a good thing to stop defending oneself.

Oh, look at that, being suspicious of Moospiker is popular again. Also ignores some questions directed at him (which I think he definately should have answered).

Unvote Starrie

. On further rereading, Moospiker feels wronger and wronger to me, but mostly it is just his post 98. I am going to be away until monday, but if I'm lucky i may be able to post something.

Also ironic as his reason for voting starrie was lurking and starrie made one post, and said essentially nothing.

Also agree with MM's summary in 149.

For the constant flip flopping, hypocracy, and ignoring questions directed at him and important events in the game as they occur (or waiting way too long to respond to them).

vote Avinyl

Also, points off for charter for saying he has somewhere acceptable to place his vote yet does not actually do so.

Did you miss the 'when I get some time' part? I really haven't made a case on anyone else, so I felt like it might be a good idea to post some reasons rather than an out of the blue vote.

Hmmm... I'm going back to thinking KrisReizer, and subsequently Vi.

Unvote, Vote: Vi

Ummm, so who are you more suspicious of?

@JDodge and charter: Both of youse said you didn't buy Moospiker's breadcrumb, but unvoted anyway. Considering you were both adamant about Moospiker's lynch as recently as Page 6, what swayed you?

I wasn't clear, I could care less about the breadcrumb, with one that extremely vague, I'd bet money he threw a doc one in there too somewhere. I don't buy his claim. That said, I'm not interested in lynching a claimed power role in any of these setups on day one.

[charter]

@Vi, I see my name a lot in 161, but I cannot understand anything in the first part of that post.

[charter]

MOOSPIKER, WHO ARE YOUR TOP TWO SUSPECTS, AND THE ORDER IN WHICH YOU SUSPECT THEM?
I think someone else asked you this as well and you're just ignoring the question.

[charter]

I'd like to vote avinyl, but for the sake of safety I'm waiting for one more post from him to answer the accusations against him.

Reasons for this? (wanting to vote him)
You haven't mentioned him since your first post despite expressing suspicions of others.

[charter]

Some questions directed at avinyl.

Hm. I am unsure about Moospiker. rereading, he doesn't feel as scummy as before.

you seem to be jumping around a lot, but why doesn't he feel as scummy as before? im still unsure about him but in the opposite way, his remarks just sound like an agrevated newb scum to me.

And in post 68 there's more.

I also figured out a pretty damn good reason to not believe Moo's claim, Anyone think it's odd that he asks for a claim when he himself claims to be a powerrole? What was he hoping to hear? Oh, I'm the doc? Not protown in the least to out the doc. Possible there's a slim chance it's a second cop, but like I said, very slim.

[charter]

Re-discussing this again today isn't going to serve much purpose. I think we should leave it until tomorrow, even though I brought it up. I didn't really think there would be much discussion from it. I will pick this up tomorrow assuming I'm still here.

[charter]

I'm still convinced he's guilty. Where have I backpedaled there? I said I'm not interested lynching him today, I even reaffirmed that in 179, where have I shown otherwise?

And last,

Gathering from Vi's read on you, you should claim now.

This is interesting in light of the L-1 claim question.

If you're going to accuse me of something, do it, don't make half assed statements like that. But to shoot your point down anyway, do you not see a difference in asking for a claim on page 3, when one of the votes was from page 1, verses asking a claim on page 7 at L-1 and with others saying they are suspicious of the person?

[charter]

I want the order in which you suspect them, I know those are your top two.

[charter]

The reason I wanted it was I had confused myself with this.

Hmmm... I'm going back to thinking KrisReizer, and subsequently Vi.

Unvote, Vote: Vi

@Vi, I don't recall anyone asking for my top two suspects. If someone wants them, ask.

[charter]

I was referring to your refusal to answer M-M's question.

Which question?

So, have a direct query - What is your opinion of afatchic, and the general mullings-about that he's parroting people/following you around?

I don't have a town read on afatchic for sure, but I don't think anything he's done is on the avinyl or Moo level. I'll have to go reread the following people case, I didn't think it was the strong, but didn't consider it too heavily.

[charter]

Where is everyone else?

Waiting for avinyl to get lynched.

[charter]

charter, if you don't buy the cop claim, why unvote?

Not interested in lynching a claimed cop day one. This is the fourth time I've said that I believe.

I also figured out a pretty damn good reason to not believe Moo's claim, Anyone think it's odd that he asks for a claim when he himself claims to be a powerrole? What was he hoping to hear? Oh, I'm the doc? Not protown in the least to out the doc. Possible there's a slim chance it's a second cop, but like I said, very slim.

My gut reaction was that Moo plays mafia elsewhere and he was following whatever the meta there is. A second plausible reason would be that he wanted to catch the scum out in a fake-claim.
I would like Moo to comment further on this.

You think scum would counterclaim someone they know isn't scum and is claiming cop?

Waiting for avinyl to get lynched.

I hope you have a good explanation for this.

Post 162. Your opening post didn't help your case either.

Even so, you have no comment on my line of thought vs. afatchic?

Still haven't read it yet, will shortly though.

Still think avinyl/eldarad is scum.

[charter]

Vi, sorry, I kept forgetting to reread. I don't think there's a whole lot to your afatchic following me theory, though I'm obviously biased.

Your first one, my post 111, I saw his actions as bad because he did not immediately do it. I don't think that it was me specifically he was waiting for, but just someone's opinion. I just happened to be the first one to do so.

I don't really think 123 is a solid one either. I just don't see any motive behind him as scum doing that. No town motive either.

136 is the one I think has merit. I don't think the bad part of this post is so much 'following' me as it is him voting Moospiker for absolutely no reason (other than to spice up the game and my declaration of him being scum)

141 I think is also bad for him. If he actually feels the same was as I do, I think he would have posted it himself rather than just piggy backing on me.

As a whole, I don't think there's really an 'afatchic is following charter' case, I'd say it's more of an 'afatchic is following everyone' case. However, you did have good points, and while I'd prefer an avinyl lynch, I wouldn't be opposed to an afatchic one.

[charter]

Why JDodge?

[charter]

Sorry I haven't been able to give this game as much attention, but other's have sucked my time up with massive drama. I'll be able to catch up on this one tomorrow night. Apologies.

[charter]

Given that Moo hadn't claimed cop at that point, scum wouldn't be counterclaiming anyone - they'd just be claiming. Given your stated position that you don't want to lynch a claimed cop even though you don't buy his claim, it would be a pretty good claim for a scum to make, wouldn't it?

True, but if two people claimed cop in day one, I'd be all for lynching one. The two cop scenerio is too unlikely in my opinion. If Moo is cop and someone else claimed before him, I can't imagine not seeing a counterclaim.
Also, I only said I don't want to lynch him today. Tomorrow is a whole different story.

Your opening post didn't help your case either.

How so?

You gave virtually no original opinions. A lot of what you said was a rehash of what has been said or happened, or you talk about your 'gut' which is really an excuse to say whatever you want. All in all, it wasn't an impression opening post, and certainly didn't do anything to alleviate my concerns about your predessor.

[charter]

You gave virtually no original opinions. A lot of what you said was a rehash of what has been said or happened, or you talk about your 'gut' which is really an excuse to say whatever you want. All in all, it wasn't an impression opening post, and certainly didn't do anything to alleviate my concerns about your predessor.

I think my opening post gives my opinions pretty clearly, whilst - being a catchup post - it inevitably also includes the points that I thought were interesting as I read through.
Reading my opening post, can you determine my opinion on Moo?

You, you just make a few open ended statements on him. You don't give an opinion on him either way.

On afatchic?

Yes, this is the only player you elaborated on. You set yourself up to vote him. I get the impression that you saw he's the easiest target besides yourself and are gunning for him for that reason.

On the Avinyl wagon?

Barely, the obvious answer is you don't agree with it, no one agrees with their own wagon. I find this a pointless question to ask me.

The fact that you criticise my for using my gut shows that you haven't actually read my post recently, if at all. That bothers me, given that you're trying to lynch me.

I've read your posts, I still think you're scum.

Do you think afatchic is scum then?

No, but what I mean when I say I'm not opposed to an afatchic lynch is that his lynch will give lots of information regardless of his alignment. It isn't an obvious mislynch.

What do you think about my idea that afatchic hasn't expressed any opinions on this actual game, preferring instead to talk in abstract theory terms?
How does that impact on whether you think afatchic is scum?

I think it makes him slightly less useful, but I don't consider usefullness a scumtell.

Are you satisfied with the current situation, where afatchic is currently in a position where he could hammer me to end the Day? Why?

Sure am. I think you're scum, doesn't much matter to me who hammers you.

[charter]

Mostly because I think it's eld and moo, and there isn't room for him.

[charter]

That's quite some imagination you got there. So because I'm not pursuing more people than are scum in this game, that makes me scum? False. I fail to see how my opinion on AFC has any bearing on the scumminess of eld.

[charter]

That sounds much, much more confident in your theory than someone with limited information should be.

That is implying I'm scum.

Of course, this suspicion can't be wrong; pressuring or suspecting afatchic would be wasting time at best because he's Town by your current theory.

I'd sooner take a "suspect until proven cleared" approach to Mafia, personally.

Why aren't you questioning everyone then? The only possible explaination is that you have more information than everyone else.
I see your point, but you're not even trying to see mine. I don't see the need to question everyone I find even slightly suspicious. I've already said, I think AFC would be a fine lynch regardless of his alignment, but I think an eld lynch would net us scum.

[charter]

That was my summer job. There was barely any work for me to do, so I did whatever I wanted. It's schooltime now, I should update that.

Eld is just out trying to discredit everything I say. Looks like he's been caught. I'm fine with afatchic getting lynched, I don't think he's scum, but he hasn't done much to help us out either.

I don't understand your vote for me, but don't much mind. The only problem with it is it isn't being used to lynch eld.

[charter]

This is actually getting quite ridiculous. I'm not in this game to defend afatchic. I'm not in this game to defend why I think someone is town. I'm in this game to catch scum, not townies. I'm not going to say why I think afatchic isn't scum anymore, or why I don't care if he's lynched. This is the last time.

I do not think afatchic is scum. I think Moo/eld are scum. I think afatchic's lynch will give us lots of information to go into day two with and will be a good lynch.

Don't ask me again, I'll ignore everything you write from now on if you do. I'm tired of wasting time not lynching eld and talking about afatchic. If that's who you guys want to lynch, you're going to do it without my vote, get used to the idea.

What additional information would an afatchic lynch give us over and above knowledge of his alignment?

Really? You catch all the scum day one without knowing anyone's role/alignment? I don't believe it. It gives us something concrete to work with in the coming days. This is a basic and fundamental principle in mafia. Let me ask you this, what is better for the town on day one, lynching a townie after 10 pages, or lynching scum in the first five posts?

Do you think that reluctance to name players as prob-town, or as definite-scum as scumtell?

It's not cut and dry... Depends on how someone does it. I don't jump all over every scumtell I see, that's how you get tunnel vision on townies that screwed up.

Do you think that a reluctance to scumhunt, preferring instead to talk in abstract terms about game theory, is a scumtell?

See above.

Do you think afatchic has done either of those things?

He has. I don't think he's done them in a very scummy manner however.

[charter]

Cute, just as expected.

Vi, those statements don't contradict. You're wrong about the second part too. Also, don't answer questions not directed at you, you influence the answer of the person's answer I'm interested in hearing.

JDodge, I've already commented on the matter several times. Useless is not scum, do people really not realize that?

Eld, No one else has asked me anything that isn't related to afatchic, and my opinions really haven't changed in a while, so I haven't had anything to discuss. If you want to talk about something I haven't already talked about at length already, ask. I'm fine with any lynch as long as it's not an obvious mislynch.

[charter]

Vi, I siad I THINK they are scum, not that I've solved the game already. Something you probably don't know about me, I overstate my suspicions bigtime.

And an afatchic lynch is not an obvious mislynch to you?

No, it's quite possible he's scum. I don't think he is, but he's certainly not what I'd consider an obvious mislynch.

[charter]

Can you try and contribute some more?

[charter]

Prods please

People, vote eld.

[charter]

It's not the first time I've done it. We're on page 12, I don't see anything else useful being said today.

[charter]

Prods please

People, vote eld.

[charter]

Eld, stop. I never said the second half of that sentence that you put in quotes. A blatent falsification.

[charter]

Vi said "I'm scum guys! Lynch me!" See why I don't want people go around saying I said stuff I didn't?

[charter]

I don't understand what just went on. Vi, you get that I'm calling eld out for his blatent trying to make it seem like I said or insinuated something I never have?

I would have to go back and reread JDodge, he really hasn't done much in this game, but I haven't thought him very scummy.

Is it okay to lynch someone you don't think is scum at this point?

No.

[charter]

PRODS PLEASE

[charter]

Wait, why am I blatently linked to afatchic? I don't get that. I also don't like eld's lynch one so we know the other's alignment. Hey, let's lynch charter today. Charter flips town. Hey, that must mean afatchic is scum! Lynch afatchic, possibly lose.

Setting up lynches like that eld? At least try and be more subtle about it.

[charter]

Also, you expect me to go back and look at past games where your stance worked but you refuse to look at past games yourself?

Hypocrite.

I saw this too.

[charter]

PRODS PLEASE!

Guys, this day is dragging on horribly. I'm not saying rush, but lets try and work something out. I will consider voting afatchic if that will help move things along.

[charter]

Moospiker was the one I wanted. Didn't know he was getting replaced, me bad.

[charter]

charter has gone out of his way to create 'scumbuddy' links with afatchic. Bear witness:
- the repeated failure to read afatchic and express an opinion on him. Compare and constrast charter's actions towards Avinyl/me.
- the repeated refusal to express an opinion on afatchic
- the fact that charter neither supports or opposes an afatchic lynch

I've said I don't think afatchic is scum. Repeatedly. I haven't failed to do anything. I oppose the afatchic lynch (pretty sure I've said that) because it's not an eld lynch.

So you're interested in clearing afatchic from charter's flip, regardless of how charter flips...?

Given that I didn't say that I would clear afatchic if charter flipped town, I don't see how you reached that conclusion.

"Cleared" is a big word. The idea nonetheless stands; IYO afatchic would look better no matter how charter flips. Which the way you put it just sounds like an excuse for a charter lynch.

Unvote: charter

Glad someone besides me saw that as well.

[charter]

VOTECOUNT please!

Just looked at afatchic's post history, he's been posting in plenty of other games. Afatchic, if you're out there, you're about to get lynched, any last words?

[charter]

Wait, how are replacements SCUMs enemy? I just replaced into a NG that was plagued by them. I was scum, it was easy as pie to win (two confirmed innocents and no one thought us two were scum, and it was LYLO).

I'll at least let afatchics replacement post before making final decisions. However, if I don't like the post, my vote will come with swift and mighty justice!

[charter]

Oh, and sorry, I post in caps to get the mod's attention. I can see it isn't necessary so I'll stop.

[charter]

Yes, why was afatchic replaced before moospiker?

[charter]

And can we get a deadline extension too please?

[charter]

Yes, why was afatchic replaced before moospiker?

I can answer this one:

When I PM'd the mod, I told him I'd be willing to replace afatchic. I didn't know the game needed two replacements. *shrug*

Fair enough.
Will read the earth shattering walls of text later today.

[charter]

Not liking kuribo's replacement post (though I do appreciate it not just being a summary of the game. Hate when that's all a replacement post is. I've been in the game, I know what's happened). I will elaborate later.

[charter]

Not liking kuribo's replacement post (though I do appreciate it not just being a summary of the game. Hate when that's all a replacement post is. I've been in the game, I know what's happened). I will elaborate later.

I don't do it for your benefit, though, I do it for mine and to give my thoughts on what's happened.

I wasn't clear. I don't like the conclusions you made or your thoughts (I think they are a little off). I do like that you did give your thoughts and not just a summary of the game.

First, I completely do not see how your summary leads to a Vi vote. I think his scumminess jumped way up the last few pages, but is nowhere near that of eld/avinyl. I don't see where you jumped to the conclusion that Kris was scum (and that would only be possible using what, the first four or so pages?) and then you say Vi gives some good posts. Then basically everything Vi says is scummy in your opinion.
It looks like you want us to just take your word that Kris is scummy, and by extension Vi, and not actually go back and check.

I don't get how you could have possibly dropped suspicion of Moo. (last line in page six summary) Please explain.

Your page eight summary. All you basically say is we should be pressuring Vi. Why? Why did your analysis of page eight and on become much much less meaty than the first seven pages?

And most importantly, WHY VOTE VI, WHY NOT ELD?

[charter]

I guess this is just because I didn't think Kris was scummy then.

JDodge, elaborate your vote for eld, or I will vote you.

[charter]

unvote, vote JDodge

[charter]

What now?

[charter]

You're getting quite worked up about it. I just managed to get you to match your contribution to this game over the last month. I had no intention of lynching you.

Your justification is extremely poor.
1- I suppose.
2- A little early to already decide this.
3- Not even a reason to vote for eld.

[charter]

I thought Kris was pretty town.

[charter]

JDodge, anything changed since we don't have a deadline until Moo is replaced?

[charter]

unvote, vote eld

Got all were gonna get from JDodge on that I think.

[charter]

Brilliant idea fresh from the noggin'.
Whoever sees the post where Sim announces Moospiker's replacement first, post in bold something like "[Moospiker's replacement] we have already massclaimed, everyone has claimed townie, can you confirm Moospiker's claim that you are indeed a townie? Please answer immediately."

The point is to do it before he can read the thread. Hopefully he doesn't see this post, and I don't think we need to discuss this and increase the chances of him seeing it. I really see no downside to this idea.

[charter]

Fine. Ethics and morals be praised.

[charter]

Well, seeing as how Moo left when I thought he was the scummiest, I still do think he's scum, but I don't think it as blindly as I did before. I saw no downside (in terms of trying to win) by pulling that stunt.

[charter]

By the looks of how this game is quickly grinding to a halt, I'm willing to move my vote to elderad fairly soon to put him at L-1.

Any update on this?

[charter]

By the looks of how this game is quickly grinding to a halt, I'm willing to move my vote to elderad fairly soon to put him at L-1.

Let me reiterate: Are you looking to shift the blame if he comes up town after a lynch?

"Hey, guys, I know I put him at L-1, but I said I was willing to do it and no one objected!"

It would have been a good idea to not say this. Then we could have seen what he did tomorrow if eld is town. Now he surely won't do it.

[charter]

And sorry about suggesting deceiving you. Welcome to our game.

[charter]

Why are we arguing useless crap that we all know already?

[charter]

Posting before prod. Waiting on charter.

Keep on waiting. Go ahead and keep your suspicions of me as well.

[charter]

He's saying I'm scum cause I post in other games more frequently than this one...
Actually, he's not saying it, he's trying to get you to say/think it. Quite scummy of him in fact.

[charter]

He's saying I'm scum cause I post in other games more frequently than this one...
Actually, he's not saying it, he's trying to get you to say/think it. Quite scummy of him in fact.

So do you think Vi is scummy then?

Any thoughts on Sche since he has replaced in? Still happy with an eldarad-Sche scumteam?

I'm actually waivering on Sche. It's nothing he's done, but my whole case really was based on Moo's asking for a claim, while claiming cop, on page three. Still by far the scummiest thing I've seen this game, but Vi is getting continuously worse and making me question my earlier read.

I'm still sold on you, but I think your partner will be determined tomorrow, not today.

Vi, I don't know what scumhunting you expect me to do. I think I've found me a scum, no need to continuously post stuff against eld.

[charter]

Uhhh, I was suspicious of Moo for practically the whole game, he didn't disagree with me. I've been suspicious of eld since before he replaced in, avinyl didn't disagree with me.
And why am I waivering on Sch. Really? You realize my whole case against him is Moo's shaky actions a long time ago?

I suppose you have one point, that Vi is suspicious of me (though he's suspicious of about everyone) and now I'm suspicious of him. Though I pretty much ignored it the first time he was suspicious of me, so your point obviously doesn't hold water. He's doing something now I find suspicious, not the fact that he finds me suspicious. Interesting that you come to his defense as soon as I state suspicion of him though.

[charter]

Also, where have Moo and I 'butted heads'?

[charter]

Vi, how does me not defending myself make me more likely to be scum?

[charter]

I will ask JDodge once to stop insulting me.

[charter]

Hmmmm, now this becomes a question of do I believe Sche or not. If I do, scum is Vi and JDodge. If I don't, scum is Sche and someone else.

Sche, why investigate Kuribo?

[charter]

What?
If I believe Sche, it means him and kuribo are town, I'm town, that leaves you and jdodge.

You supposedly need to be making up your mind about it too. Funny how you don't seem to realize this.

[charter]

So do you believe him?

[charter]

That was directed at Vi. You're obviously not going to be lynched today.

[charter]

I didn't realize there could be a GF, haven't looked at the setup list in ages. Still waiting for Sche before I digest these recent events.

[charter]

I actually would have put afatchic at L-1, not hammering him, when I said I might vote him. Sche should be back soon with answers to my questions.

[charter]

Can we get a prod on Sche? I've been waiting for him.

[charter]

Good, tell us who the scum are

[charter]

Crap, for some reason I thought that Sim was replacing Sche. Well, I was waiting on the reasons for Sche investigating kuribo, but I can see that isn't going to happen. I'm going to post my thoughts on today shortly.

[charter]

I think it's jdodge + kuribo. Gotta do some rereading before voting though.

Also, I was thinking. It might make sense not to lynch jdodge/vi today. If we nail scum today that isn't them (and assuming sche is cop) then it's an autowin tomorrow. Of course this excludes the scenario that it's jdodge/vi, which I find very possible.

[charter]

Good point, I need to try posting when it's not the middle of the night.

[charter]

/prodded, reading and will post.

[charter]

I'm not terribly sure which of jdodge/vi is scum, I can see it both ways. I went back and looked posts and jdodge's vote for eld was a classic scum vote. I also think that kuribo is the other one, and jdodge has been distancing with him. Vi has just been way scummier to me, but I didn't look for a whole lot that connected him to kuribo.

However, I can't ignore the idea of lynching one of myself/kuribo today. If we get it right, it's an autowin assuming scum isn't jdodge/vi. I don't think this is the case, because while jdodge has suggested this, he seems content with not doing it and vi doesn't think it's a good idea at all.
I'm assuming Sche is the cop now, there is one setup with a 25% chance of having a doc but no cop, so I can't really assume that that is the case. Also,

Mod, is the miller told they are a miller?

Just to make sure, everyone who has a role has claimed, right? Anyone forgot to claim? I'd go back and check your role pm just to be sure. I'm a townie, just went and checked.

Also, I really do think it's the godfather setup. I can't imagine it being a setup with a mafia roleblocker and them not blocking the cop. If it's two goons, they should definately have tried killing the cop. If they fail, then it's still LYLO today with six instead of five, much easier for them to quicklynch in.

In conclusion, I'm thinking of voting kuribo, but I wanna look back over his posts too. I know there was the whole afatchic thing, I prolly should have listened to that yesterday... Anyone else's thoughts on lynching either myself or kuribo over jdodge/Vi?

[charter]

If we lynch kuribo, and he is godfather, then it's game over. Right there.
If we lynch jdodge/VI sucessfully today, then I assume you investigate me tonight and we then have to decide between myself/kuribo tomorrow.

Jdodge had it right before. For jdodge/Vi today might be an easy choice, but for you, me, and kuribo (if he isn't the GF) then we have to choose right today and tomorrow. Basically, we have to choose between charter/kuribo at some point, so there's no sense in trying to guess jdodge/vi as well.

I will go ahead and advocate my plan as well. If there's a quickhammer and we lose, I'm sorry, but I don't think that's going to be the case.

vote kuribo

[charter]

No. Say we lynch one of jdodge/Vi today. We get it right. Tomorrow we STILL have to choose between kuribo/charter.

All I'm doing is not deciding between jdodge/Vi. No sense in making it extra complicated, at least from my standpoint.

[charter]

No. Sche investigates one of them tonight. He gets an innocent, then we know who not to lynch. He gets a guilty, we know who to lynch.

[charter]

Why on god's green earth would the GODFATHER pull this counterclaim? Why would they risk the GF when the goon can do it and leave the GF to be immune to the night investigation?
Sorry, but your idea there doesn't make any sense.

[charter]

I'm actually reasonably sure kuribo is scum here. His whole reason for voting me is I'm voting him because I think he's the GF. It looks like a desperation ploy.

[charter]

Sche revealed before anyone claimed doc.
Also, I'm not the GF (meaningless, I know, but bear with me) and sotty isn't the GF. You certainly can be, and it's possible that one of jdodge/vi is as well. I'm bringing it up because you're the one that suggested that one of jdodge/vi is the godfather, which makes zero sense.

Personally, I think charter reveals more about his intent than he lets on.

What does this even mean?

[charter]

Why would the GF counterclaim doc instead of the goon?

[charter]

Because sacrificing the goon leaves the GF to possibly be investigated, then making it so the town has to determine which of two is scum again. If the GF is lynched, an innocent is just as damning as a gulity. If there's no chance of a GF then it's an autowin assuming we get through today right. If there is a chance of a GF, kill the doc tonight and the town doesn't have an autowin.

So, why?

[charter]

This isn't WIFOM. There is a distinct advantage to having the GF not counterclaim. I'm not trying to outguess what the scum did. I'm flat out assuming the GF would not be picked to counterclaim (I say counterclaim, but it could be just claim if Vi is scum, you get the idea).

And me pointing out an advantage to doing it (which I'm sure everyone could have seen why without me doing it) does not make it more likely to be done. PLUS how is me pointing out this confusing?

stupid CPU Quota

Agreed.

[charter]

I'm flat out assuming the GF would not be picked to counterclaim (I say counterclaim, but it could be just claim if Vi is scum, you get the idea). PLUS how is me pointing out this confusing?

stupid CPU Quota

Agreed.

When we assume, we make an ass out of you and some guy named Ume.

And it's confusing me, that's for sure.

I assume (ha ha ha ha, assuming again) that you didn't answer my question because you know that your original statement was just wrong.

Ok. Say the GF counterclaimed (or claimed, just going to keep saying counterclaimed for simplicity). There is NO WAY they could have thought we'd lynch someone besides one of the claimed doctors. Earlier in the day, I myself even said that. I can probably find a quote from everyone saying about the same thing. I didn't even see another choice because this just seemed like the obvious right choice.

I guess this is much more obvious for me, because from my point of view, scum is either jdodge and vi, or kuribo and jdodge/vi. I've completely ruled out sotty, and pretty much ruled out jdodge and vi, because it makes absolutely no sense for them to do that as a scumteam. I need to try and make it your point of view too sotty.

Why would the GF counter claim?

So they can purpose this plan of lynching outside the two claimed docs. So if we do that as a town and somehow guess right, then I will get another investigation. The GF is fine with this because they are immune to my investigations! It's the perfect ploy.

And charter you haven't said anywhere why we should lynch kuribo just that you think he is the GF. Give me some reasons WHY you think this.

Well, there's really no way to prove there is a GF, all I can do is use a bunch of WIFOM for you to think about and let you decide, pretty much the same as I did (basically look real hard at day two).

I can give you a case as to why kuribo is scum. There was a good one on day one, I pretty much ignored it and was very wrong, so I'll resummarize for you.

If anyone changes their vote, if you are town, do not change yours.

Say the scumteam is kuribo+Vi. Vi puts his vote on kuribo, jdodge might put his on me to keep it even, but then Vi switches for a hammer. Just wanted to say this so we don't make some stupid mistake and lose.

[charter]

I've been busy, the case against kuribo is coming.

[charter]

Woulda been nice if the case came before the vote.

Well, from my point of view, if I assume that you are cop, and only one of jdodge/vi is scum, then this is the GF C9 and kuribo is GF. I've already stated why I'm making these assumptions.

Case on afatchic/kuribo.
45- afatchic agreeing with KR
66- says he doesn't like Moo asking for a claim ONLY after I've already done so.
68- afatchic says this "also aviny you seem to be trying to hard to make a case against me." I personally find that a scummy thing to say.
68- afatchic also attempts some scumhunting towards avinyl, however avinyl's response is terrible. Afatchic doesn't pursue this any further. (this is really his only attempt at scumhunting thus far, and he starts out well, but drops it immediately after and starts following me in suspecting moospiker)
86- agrees with me
101- I personally found this post very scummy, my explanation for why is in 104 and 109
123- more agreeing/buddying
124- probably his first scumhunting post. No one pays any attention to it and he drops it.
136- Piggybacks on my case against Moo using the worst reason possible, just my saying Moo was scum.
141- more agreeing/buddying
177- you know the drill
182- as MM points out, unfulfilled promises from afatchic
186- a promise to get to these unfulfilled promises, of which he still never gets done
199- Vi has a good summary of afatchic's play so far, "Most of the rest of the stuff you have posted is short and weak, and not necessarily related to this particular game at all."
213- doesn't really respond to any of the points eld brings up against him in eld's replacing in post.
290- afatchic gets back from his lurkfest and says nothing. No one notices either.
303-304- Jdodge has a good case against afatchic
319- completely ignores all cases against him.
334- afatchic is clearly ignoring us so he doesn't have to defend himself, then he requests replacement shortly after
kuribo never responds to the mass of questions for afatchic either, it all gets forgotten.
428- explains away all of afatchic's actions with "afatchic always plays scummy". Don't know how we let him get away with this.
436-439- argues a bunch about useless things
Beginning of day two, posts a bunch but says nothing.
502,504- more active lurking
510- Extremely wishy washy on his reads on everyone. There's huge gaps left open to interpretation.
550- kuribo votes me after I explain how lynching one of me/him is an autowin (and he doesn't even agree with lynching one of me/him today)
560- tries to pass off the GF counter/claiming doc as WIFOM when it isn't, and refuses to answer why the GF would be the one counter/claiming rather than goon.

TL;DR PART

- afatchic did no scumhunting
- afatchic agreed and buddied with a lot of people
- afatchic kept promising to answer questions, but still posted content posts in this game not responding to them (and posted frequently in other games at the same time)
- afatchic requested replacement when he was about to be at the height of suspicion
- kuribo never answered anyone's questions for afatchic
- kuribo never answered anyone's questions at himself
- kuribo did a great job of active lurking and flying under the radar
- kuribo is now trying to say that the GF would be the one counter/claiming doc today. This flat out doesn't make sense (I can explain again why if someone besides kuribo wants me to)

[charter]

Ok, I think I botched the tl;dr part. Why can't you respond to the individual points against you?

[charter]

Ok, I think I botched the tl;dr part. Why can't you respond to the individual points against you?

Because it all boils down to accusations of active lurking:

436-439- argues a bunch about useless things
Beginning of day two, posts a bunch but says nothing.
502,504- more active lurking
510- Extremely wishy washy on his reads on everyone. There's huge gaps left open to interpretation.

Which I have

NEVER

done in any game I've ever played--- and frankly, the accusation offends me.

I'll just let the others decide for themselves, I saw it as active lurking, didn't mean to offend you...
And your reads are very noncomittal. I could see you actually going either way on any of them, depending on who becomes more suspicious (which I perceive as a scumtell).

Or afatchic's transgressions, which I cannot answer for.

You have the same role as he did, so you're accountable for them.

Or, disagreements on Mafia theory, which I've said before isn't one of my strong points:

I was looking for your reason as to why the GF would counter/claim rather than the goon. I gave my reason why I thought it wouldn't happen, and you never answered my questions of why the GF would do it. You instead accuse me being scum and throwing the idea out there because supposedly that's what is actually happening.

550- kuribo votes me after I explain how lynching one of me/him is an autowin (and he doesn't even agree with lynching one of me/him today)
560- tries to pass off the GF counter/claiming doc as WIFOM when it isn't, and refuses to answer why the GF would be the one counter/claiming rather than goon.

But that doesn't make me scum.

So your case against me is that you perceive some of my posts as active lurking (which they are not, nor have ever been), or that afatchic was scummy (so what?), or that we disagree about lynching either you or me. (You haven't shown me why it's a good idea).

How the hell did I not address the individual points? What do you want clarified?

You contradicted yourself when you voted for me, because you don't think the lynch me/you plan is the right way to go for today. Your contradiction is scummy. Your deflection of why the GF would counter/claim is scummy.
Afatchic being scummy means a lot, you have the same role as he did so you're either accountable for all his actions, or we have to give you a clean slate. I don't think anyone is going to sweep everything afatchic said and did under the rug.

I guess I expected you to respond to cases against afatchic or something. There's really not a whole to go on if we're not taking into account afatchic. We kind of have to.

[charter]

I'm here, I'm waiting for sotty or anyone really to say something about the lynch me/kuribo plan. That's the best way to go today.

[charter]

Okay...I don't know how many times I can say it without losing my mind...

You are suggesting we lynch THE ONE player I have an innocent on.
You are suggesting that we lynch outside JDodge and Vi where we KNOW one of them is lying and therefore scum.

Can you please explain why either of these ideas are good ones?

Can I give you a reason that isn't WIFOM? No. The reason I'm so sure is that I know you're going to get an innocent on me if we lynch jodge/vi correctly.

It lives on the assumption that we are in Godfather C9.
Even if that assumption is correct and someone is the Godfather, don't you think it is beneficial to the town to get in as many investigations as possible? The fact is that we have a 50/50 between Vi and JDodge, there IS scum in there somewhere, the whole town can see that.

Well, you're going to get one more investigation regardless (or we are going to lose today). There's also the 50/50 between me and kuribo, assuming you're not scum, so there IS scum in me/kuribo as well. (unless you believe both jdodge/vi to be scum and then I'd want to know why you think you survived the night and why they haven't piled votes onto me/kuribo for a win).

You are trying to claim that it isn't logical for the Godfather to counter claim doc. To be honest it could be played either way. The Godfather could be counter claiming to set just this situation up! Then if we guess right between you and kuribo MY INVESTAGTIONS BECOME USLESS.

How is that any different than the situation we are in right now? You want to lynch one of them today, you don't have a guilty on one of them. If one is the GF, then tomorrow you're not going to have a guilty on one of them either.

The reason I am claiming it isn't logical is think about the beginning of today. Right after jdodge/vi claimed doc. Did you think there was any way we wouldn't be lynching one of them? I know I didn't. I believe that's what the scum thought as well. I think that's what everyone in the game (except maybe jdodge) thought.

So in light of this possibility... Can you really sit there and tell me that we should lynch the one guy I have an innocent on when the Godfather isn't confirmed? Can you really sit there and tell me that a ballsy GF wouldn't try and make this play? However unlikely, isn't it still possible?

I can understand why you're hesitant, but look at why I'm not. One of me/kuribo is scum. One of jdodge/vi is scum. I also don't think it's ballsy, it just

makes sense

for the GF to not counterclaim. I can't give you any concrete reason other than that.

I won't lie. The exchange between JDodge and Vi is making my head hurt. I think I am going to have to look back once more before I commit either way on that right now. I will say again though, my vote will be going to either JDodge or Vi.

I hope you pick right!

[charter]

I'm on vacation, I get back sat, and I can talk more, sorry!

[charter]

At this point, one of:

Vi/kuribo
Vi/charter
JD/kuribo
JD/charter

is guaranteed.

Except it's not

guaranteed

.

By lynching out of the second subset, we in effect increase our chances given random chance by a considerable margin.

WIFOM.

I will move my vote to kuribo on the day of the deadline if we go that route. I suggest Vi state whom he is willing to vote out of that group. I also want kuribo/charter to say whom they'd like to lynch out of me/Vi. If we can get a consensus between one side or the other, we have minimal reason to not go that route.

There's a noticeable problem here. If one Mafiate and one Townie are supposed to agree to lynch either the Mafiate's scumpartner or an unrelated Townie, which one do you think they're going to agree upon? You aren't even considering IYO-confirmed-Town Sotty7 in this at all, instead relying on one Mafiate to bus the other in order to hit scum today. This is a Bad Idea, straight-up.

As far as kuribo vs. charter, considering I'm not overly fond of either of them and haven't advocated either of their lynches yet (nor do I still) I would need to look over it again.

Posts like this scream vote Vi in my head. I don't do it because I think Jdodge is actually scum.

charter who do you think is scum between Vi and JDodge?

Without rereading again (which I will do if we must go between Vi/Jdodge) I'd say Jdodge.

[charter]

Not really, it's mostly just gut. Sorry I can't be that helpful other than repeating that Kuribo is the GF over and over.

Jdodge would gain massive town points if he votes kuribo before anyone else changes votes. I feel like Vi flat out isn't going to change, whereas both kuribo (I believe) and jdodge have stated that they would move before deadline. Seems to me like both are waiting until as close to deadline as possible, which I see scum doing because it prevents any discussion of the change, and they could be hoping they don't need to change.

Sotty, do you believe Jdodge and Vi to be scum? If not, who of me/kuribo do you believe to be scum?

[charter]

Sotty, would you still think that kuribo is town if we get to tomorrow with a doc dead, a goon lynched, and you have an innocent on both me and kuribo?

[charter]

Well, either Jodge is scum and me voting him will be good, or he's town and he's about to get lynched anyway.

unvote, vote Jdodge

Go Town!

[charter]

I'm not sure I understand your question.

[charter]

Oh, well I know kuribo is scum, so I'd have preferred him, but my pick for his partner is jdodge.

[charter]

vote Kuribo

[charter]

unvote

Actually, I'll wait for sotty's results first.

[charter]

vote kuribo

Just making sure.

[charter]

I mean, there's nothing I can say I didn't say yesterday. If you have any more questions I'll answer them.

The only thing I could add is how jdodge and kuribo were massively lurking at deadline. My theory is that they were hoping they could just sit tight and force you to pick right.

[charter]

Did we all die in the crash or are we just waiting for something to happen?

we're all just stubborn

That was his only post before deadline (Jan 12) after Jan 1. If that isn't lurking before deadline than shoot me. ONE POST IN 11 DAYS THAT SAID NOTHING IN LYLO. It doesn't get any more textbook than that.

I'd have to go back and check, but I don't remember if kuribo ever leaned towards one of jdodge/vi or if he was just really vague.

[charter]

I forgot there was site downtime, I wasn't here for any of it.

So what's the difference between the 11th and the 8th? Three more days and it's "lurking?" What were YOU doing?

I didn't post ANYWHERE during that time. I even said why. You're trying to equate going on vacation as scummy...

And my accusation of you lurking before deadline is STILL accurate, because you had PLENTY of posts in other games right before deadline in this one. Clearly avoiding this one hoping sotty would pick wrong.

Sotty, would you still think that kuribo is town if we get to tomorrow with a doc dead, a goon lynched, and you have an innocent on both me and kuribo?

also, can I borrow your crystal ball?

That's cause I figured out this was the GF setup and it OBVIOUSLY makes sense for the GF not to counter, ESPECIALLY if the cop already had the innocent on him.

Now kuribo is interested in this game again, now that he has to try and get someone else lynched...

[charter]

THERE'S PROOF OF IT. What do you call it then? Having no interest in a game with an impending deadline at LYLO? Lurking is a better way of saving face if you ask me.

Better responses would have been "didn't know there was a deadline" or some other lie that would at least leave doubt in sotty's head. You've already forfeited the chance for another explanation to your absense to this game in particular.

[charter]

There were questions directed at you, you could have answered those. You could have talked about which of jdodge/vi you would have voted. You could have tried to help the town win.

[charter]

Four days to deadline.

charter, kuribo, Sotty7. Now would be a good time to discuss who among JDodge and myself you'll vote for. Questions are welcome.

You didn't discuss who you would vote for for like ten days before deadline.

Did we all die in the crash or are we just waiting for something to happen?

we're all just stubborn

Are you happy keeping your vote on charter now? Or will you be swtiching to one of JDodge or Vi?

And Vi, you keep saying you will look back over chater v Kuribo... I for one would really like to know where you stand on that issue.

That would have been an important one to answer I think.

And my asking you over and over why the GF would counterclaim (oh wait, he didn't, did he kuribo?)

And I thought I had made it abundantly clear, repeatedly, that I thought Vi was scum?

I didn't that's who you thought was scum.

[charter]

So the site was only down for this thread? Not the other ones?

[charter]

Well you were happily posting in other threads after site downtime. I posted in this one when I got back from vacation. Once again, you're trying to say that me going on vacation is scummy rather than trying to find actions within this game that make me scum. Besides, I posted plenty in this thread in the few days before deadline.

[charter]

Can we get a prod on sotty please

[charter]

When you talk about charter you mention how he has been scummy but then you say you are leaning town on him. This really does not add up if you believe the cop claim to be valid.

Talking about Sche you say you believe him for now, but leave room to return to him if needs be.... So how is there room for charter to be town at this point? The only way is if you believed JDodge and Vi are scum together pulling off a crazy gambit...

But you never even entertain that idea. You say

one

of them must be scum.

So if you believe Sche's cop claim.
And yet are leaning towards charter being town...
Why didn't you put out the thought that Vi and JDodge are scum? Because that's the only way this can all work, without you being scum.

Heh. That's a pretty good catch Sotty. That was right after jdodge countered. I know I didn't immediately assume that both doctors weren't scum, it took me a LONG time before I was ready to make the assumption that you were cop and that only one of those doctors was scum. Here kuribo slips that he knows it isn't a scum gambit and that just one is scum.

[charter]

No kuribo. How did you already know that only one of them was the doc? How did you know that they both weren't scum? You are completely avoiding her question.

When have I played a game with you? I don't remember ever being in a game with you before, what game was it? So no, I don't know that you seldom think about partners until scum are lynched.

[charter]

No kuribo. How did you already know that only one of them was the doc? How did you know that they both weren't scum? You are completely avoiding her question.

I'm not avoiding the question, I'm adhering to common sense which says it would be stupid for both scum to claim doc against one another.

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!
How can you apply common sense now but not with the GF countering scenario? Plus, both scum claiming doc would not be stupid. Say Jdodge/Vi were the scum team. They both claim, no one else claims, we lynch one of them. Then Sotty would investigate me at night, and I'd die. It would be between lynching you with an innocent on your or a doc. There is no way that that scenario is stupid.

I also note how you don't bother responding to Sotty but just continually throw terrible logic around trying to paint me as scum. It's ironic because I know you're scum, so you arguing with me isn't going to do anything. You're not even trying to defend good arguments being brought up against you by someone who isn't convinced you are scum.

[charter]

Sweet. Good work Sotty.

[charter]

Well, I thought that you probabaly didn't mean to, but I had to say whatever to Sotty to make her think you were scum. Although, I think that zero posts before deadline like you did was quite scummy.

Also, I'm extremely curious. Did you guys decide for the goon to counter, or for jdodge, or what?

[charter]

Alright prodding everybody.

We lynched kuribo. That's why no one is posting.