667: Random C9 (Game Over!)

[JDodge]

I will ask JDodge once to stop insulting me.

Your request is denied. I will call you assholish as much as I wish, because you are indeed assholish.

YAY HAMMER

[kuribo]

interesting that the hammer comes right after eldarad posts "hurrr hurr I'm at l-1, I bet that means I'm town" (no, this isn't want he posted exactly, but it's a basically what he said)

[eldarad]

interesting that the hammer comes right after eldarad posts "hurrr hurr I'm at l-1, I bet that means I'm town" (no, this isn't want he posted exactly, but it's a basically what he said)

That isn't really what I said. I want you to think about my wagon Tomorrow, so having a couple of people express opinions on it Today might have been useful.

Anyway, I'll see you all on the other side.

[kuribo]

wow my grammar / spelling was bad when I first woke up

[Simenon]

Vote Count

eldarad (4)- charter, Jdodge, Machiavellian_Mafia, Sche
charter (2)- eldarad, Vi
Vi (1)- kuribo

eldarad was lynched. He was a townie.

It is now Night 1. Night choice(s) in 72 hours, please.

[Simenon]

Machiavellian-Mafia, townie, was killed night one.

It is now day two. With five alive, it's three to lynch.

[Vi]

Hey, I missed all the Twilight fun

Twilight mass rebuttal post go

You're falling back on a "Lynch the Lurker" mentality, and in such a small game, I can't see that helping the town.

The difference between anti-town and scummy? Pushing to lynch a lurker in a small game is scummy. (Hint: it keeps pressure off of you and knocks out someone you know to be town)

What pressure?
Calling charter a lurker is a misnomer; he's hiding in plain sight and it's terribly obvious. Again, it's not that he doesn't contribute, it's that he refuses to.

Why charter? Why not JDodge? Is there something besides the lurkiness that you're not sharing?

In case you missed it, JDodge is my #2 and most likely to be his partner - I'm going after the one who's acting blatantly anti-Town. As far as something I'm not sharing, I'm tired of repeating myself. The guy's literally sitting around saying

Hey I'm acting anti-Town!

.

You're stereotyping. Stereotyping is bad. You need to look at charter as charter, not charter as the lazy, useless assholish Town player. Then you will see what I mean.

All right, I glanced through a few of his games. charter's not a lazy, useless assholish Town player, and certainly hasn't pulled a stunt like this before (as far as I saw).

Then why is he acting like this.

Heck, after all the confrontation I've done, why not do something to keep suspicion away? It's

obvious

he's not even defending himself; not nearly as much as you are.

Not contradiction. I've said that nothing would change his mind. How does that mean he'll stop reading? I've noticed a tendency among new people to have some sort of fetish with assuming the worst and considering it fact. Lurking is a terrible scum tactic because it's one that scum will tend to get called on quite often. I maintain that with the popularity of the whole "lynch all lurkers" meta, that lurking in and of itself has ceased to become a valid tell. Active lurking as a tell is also rapidly becoming invalid.

Considering active lurking is a sign of bad play - or more pertinently, worse play than charter's apparent norm - and that I've seen active/lurking work quite well in other games for scum, I'll take my chances. Besides, I think you have a vested interest in shooting me down.

My, my, we're a bit snippy today, aren't we?

Snippiness is what I do best.

I'll wager eldarad is Town - albeit a painfully easy lynch - and thus that eldarad lingered at L-1 because both scum were already on the wagon. Hmm, that leaves charter, JDodge, and M-M. Convenient, the people I'm already suspicious of.

It's worth noting that charter and eldarad were also on the almost-lynch of Moospiker (now Scheherazade).

I eagerly anticipate charter's first move of the day. Same to Scheherazade.

[Scheherazade]

My first move isn't going to be that impressive, I'm afraid.

As my predecessor already claimed cop, I'm happy revealing that kuribo did turn up town.

I also need to note that my internet connection's acting up. Fixing it's going to be a bit delayed by the holiday, I must admit. I'll try to keep my posts up, but please consider me V/LA until Monday.

[Vi]

My first move isn't going to be that impressive, I'm afraid.

As my predecessor already claimed cop, I'm happy revealing that kuribo did turn up town.

That's the move I was looking for.

Understand that while I believe you are Town based on Moospiker's meta, it's not a certainty. I expect you to continue to contribute until the end of the game. (But after Thanksgiving if necessary )

[charter]

Hmmmm, now this becomes a question of do I believe Sche or not. If I do, scum is Vi and JDodge. If I don't, scum is Sche and someone else.

Sche, why investigate Kuribo?

[Vi]

If I do, scum is Vi and JDodge.

A brilliant display of deductive reasoning, if I do say so myself.
Unless there is some crime against me that you haven't mentioned aside from me

disagreeing with you

~

[charter]

What?
If I believe Sche, it means him and kuribo are town, I'm town, that leaves you and jdodge.

You supposedly need to be making up your mind about it too. Funny how you don't seem to realize this.

[Vi]

You supposedly need to be making up your mind about it too. Funny how you don't seem to realize this.

Understand that while I believe you are Town based on Moospiker's meta, it's not a certainty.

*insert TRY HARDER pic here*
Good Lord you are scum.

Although I understand your point about singling me and JDodge out now. Not that I agree with your assessment.

[charter]

So do you believe him?

[kuribo]

What?
If I believe Sche, it means him and kuribo are town, I'm town, that leaves you and jdodge.

You supposedly need to be making up your mind about it too. Funny how you don't seem to realize this.

Funny, because from my point of view, if I believe Sche, it means me and him are town, and any of you three could be scum.

So far, Sche's only told me something that I already know.

[charter]

That was directed at Vi. You're obviously not going to be lynched today.

[kuribo]

That was directed at Vi.

Ah.

[Vi]

All right, I just had a long drive to think this one over. It didn't take long before I made a decision to stop being a predictable Dumàs and look at it from more than my angle. I'm 0 for 4 in making the right choice at LyLo and I'm not interested in extending my losing streak.

This is a summary of my thought processes; feel free to snooze.

Position at end of D1: charter is OMGobvscum, and it's a toss-up between JDodge and M-M for being right there with him.
At the beginning of D2: Ma-Ma gets killed. Well that answers that question.
After Scheherazade's investigation: So it can't be anyone BUT charter and JDodge. Easy enough.

But that's a bit one-dimensional. There are two major problems that I see here.
1) The Cop may be lying, but more importantly

cannot

be confirmed.
2) What got me to notice that there is a problem is that this lines up neatly with what I was thinking... too neatly. I sense a trap.

And now I really see what you're about in those first two posts, charter. If Scheherazade is indeed a Cop, then it comes down to whoever enough people hate the most between me, you, and JDodge. Two out of three seems pretty good for odds.
But if not, then there's a severe problem and all bets are off. And it would be in character for me to toss a vote at someone in LyLo if I were convinced in someone being scum... 'Glad I waited.

----

Now, looking at Moospiker/Scheherazade the Cop one more time...

Moospiker/Scheherazade is a Cop

*Having seen Moospiker's play in another game - ongoing, unfortunately - I don't think Moospiker was doing anything unusual. Not that I know his alignment in the other game.
*If it were not so, then charter is the lazy, useless, assholeish Townie JDodge says he is. Which I'm having a hard time accepting. (It would also mean that JDodge has been right as often or more than he has been wrong in this game, not that that's a bad thing.)

Moospiker/Scheherazade is Scum

*Moospiker did not breadcrumb until he was at L-2 and saw afatchic ready to move against him. That seems horribly late, don't you think?
*Scheherazade hammered eldarad. Granted, I didn't like the eldarad lynch toward the end anyway, but notice who was on the wagon - charter, JDodge, M-M, and Scheherazade. I highly doubt that NO Mafia were on the wagon; in fact, by the virtue of knowing my own alignment it's impossible for there to have been no scum on the wagon. The door is definitely open for Scheherazade to be Mafia, especially if one takes the hypothesis that charterxJDodge is a scamplay.
*afatchic and Moospiker had a dynamic going, noticeably around Pages 3 and 4. Even though afatchic thinks Moospiker is scum for a long while, he doesn't vote him until charter confronts him about it much later. The charter+afatchic dialogue starting in Post 109 is an interesting read along these lines. afatchic generally seems to like sticking up for Moospiker under the premise of defending him.
*Some of (but not all of) Scheherazade's case on eldarad, looking back on it, was just weird. After the initial post he heavily accuses eldarad of being useless (asking unnecessary questions), which you can guess my opinion on considering I've been after charter for a while. He also seems to make a point of getting eldarad to claim, saying his earlier claim was a lie. I'd call that an obvious, nonsensical rolefish. With all this said, though, eldarad really did seem to enjoy acting scummily, and ammunition of all qualities was plentiful.
*The fact that Scheherazade was neither blocked nor targeted last Night, given how we've already seen that a successful investigation could end the game by process of elimination, is quite striking.

Looking back, I see a lot more for scum than Cop, with kuribo most likely to be a partner (but not necessarily). Thus, I'm quite interested in hearing what Scheherazade has to say now.
Separately, something I'd like to follow up on would be explaining the point you dropped in the hammering post.

Oh, and to answer the objection you've probably had for a while, I know it's pronounced "doo-MAH"

[JDodge]

Allow me to refute a good number of your points.

Moospiker/Scheherazade is Scum

*Moospiker did not breadcrumb until he was at L-2 and saw afatchic ready to move against him. That seems horribly late, don't you think?

No. He saw his lynch coming, saw he was going to have to back up his claim somehow, and breadcrumbed there in self-defense. He may not have wanted to breadcrumb, but did so as a self-preservation instinct. One could argue that he breadcrumbed there because he saw the lynch coming and decided he was going to fake-claim cop to deter info, but that is:

A) Unnecessarily risky, especially when you consider the likelihood of a cop

B) Not something I'm inclined to think Moo would come up with.

Ergo, this should be used as either a very slight tell

for

Sche-cop or as a null-tell altogether. Leaning heavily towards the second.

*Scheherazade hammered eldarad. Granted, I didn't like the eldarad lynch toward the end anyway, but notice who was on the wagon - charter, JDodge, M-M, and Scheherazade. I highly doubt that NO Mafia were on the wagon; in fact, by the virtue of knowing my own alignment it's impossible for there to have been no scum on the wagon. The door is definitely open for Scheherazade to be Mafia, especially if one takes the hypothesis that charterxJDodge is a scamplay.

Why is the hammer suspicious?

*afatchic and Moospiker had a dynamic going, noticeably around Pages 3 and 4. Even though afatchic thinks Moospiker is scum for a long while, he doesn't vote him until charter confronts him about it much later. The charter+afatchic dialogue starting in Post 109 is an interesting read along these lines. afatchic generally seems to like sticking up for Moospiker under the premise of defending him.

Valid. Makes false assumption that if Sche is scum, kuribo must therefore be scum. This is not true - everyone tends to assume that the correct play for scum in lylo fake-claiming cop is indeed to come forth with a guilty. However, this generally leads to a my word v. your word argument, which Sche can avoid this by "clearing" someone and then pitting the three people who already seem to be at each other's throats against each other.

*Some of (but not all of) Scheherazade's case on eldarad, looking back on it, was just weird. After the initial post he heavily accuses eldarad of being useless (asking unnecessary questions), which you can guess my opinion on considering I've been after charter for a while. He also seems to make a point of getting eldarad to claim, saying his earlier claim was a lie. I'd call that an obvious, nonsensical rolefish. With all this said, though, eldarad really did seem to enjoy acting scummily, and ammunition of all qualities was plentiful.

*The fact that Scheherazade was neither blocked nor targeted last Night, given how we've already seen that a successful investigation could end the game by process of elimination, is quite striking.

Assumes there is a blocker present. Cannot be used as a tell, not enough information to assume tell is valid.

[kuribo]

Moospiker falseclaiming cop would be pretty risky though.

There's only one setup that allows for two cops, and a very small number that call for none at all. So for him to falseclaim cop would be his death sentence upon counterclaim and result in his scum partner being left alone.

I'm not liking alot of Vi's logic in trying to "sort things out."

[Vi]

There's only one setup that allows for two cops, and a very small number that call for none at all. So for him to falseclaim cop would be his death sentence upon counterclaim and result in his scum partner being left alone.

And an outed Town Cop. It's not necessarily a bad scum move, though it is situational. I do see your point and don't see it as likely per se.

I'm not liking alot of Vi's logic in trying to "sort things out."

And that makes me wrong, or scum? Of course, putting in your own two cents on it is welcome.

---

Assumes there is a blocker present. Cannot be used as a tell, not enough information to assume tell is valid.

No it doesn't.
If there is no blocker, then a successful investigation like this would be fatal if the Cop cannot be discredited.

Why is the hammer suspicious?

Some of Scheherazade's ideas of what is suspicious do not resonate with me. You quoted my thoughts on it later.
More suspicious is the wagon, which all but guarantees that at least one of you, charter, or Scheherazade is scum.

No. He saw his lynch coming, saw he was going to have to back up his claim somehow, and breadcrumbed there in self-defense.

How does that change anything?
L-2 and rising would be a good time to think about how to dodge the noose. A claim would be a good way to do it; crumbs would be there to show that you've been meaning to claim eventually since... oh wait... you were put to L-2 and had incentive to claim to save your own skin. Crumbs are much more effective the earlier they are made, IMO.

'Mind if I give you some food for thought along these lines, just to speed this along a little?

I'm the Doctor

, and I protected Scheherazade last night. If nobody wants to counterclaim, and Scheherazade IS indeed a Town-side Cop, then charter and JDodge have giant targets on them. Unless someone wants to argue that kuribo/afatchic is the Godfather...

[JDodge]

Assumes there is a blocker present. Cannot be used as a tell, not enough information to assume tell is valid.

No it doesn't.
If there is no blocker, then a successful investigation like this would be fatal if the Cop cannot be discredited.

Wrong. Look at the setup list to see why. I'm honestly stunned at why neither you nor charter (especially you, seeing as you seem to be great at over-analyzing everything) the distinct possibility (however unlikely) that kuribo is a GF.

Why is the hammer suspicious?

Some of Scheherazade's ideas of what is suspicious do not resonate with me. You quoted my thoughts on it later.
More suspicious is the wagon, which all but guarantees that at least one of you, charter, or Scheherazade is scum.

You say it yourself here - "ideas of what is suspicious". It really seems like you

believe

that Sche is sincere, but don't

want to admit it

.

No. He saw his lynch coming, saw he was going to have to back up his claim somehow, and breadcrumbed there in self-defense.

How does that change anything?
L-2 and rising would be a good time to think about how to dodge the noose. A claim would be a good way to do it; crumbs would be there to show that you've been meaning to claim eventually since... oh wait... you were put to L-2 and had incentive to claim to save your own skin. Crumbs are much more effective the earlier they are made, IMO.

'Mind if I give you some food for thought along these lines, just to speed this along a little?

I'm the Doctor

, and I protected Scheherazade last night. If nobody wants to counterclaim, and Scheherazade IS indeed a Town-side Cop, then charter and JDodge have giant targets on them. Unless someone wants to argue that kuribo/afatchic is the Godfather...

The incentive to save your skin is just as big for a cop as it is for scum.

And nice try, but I'm the doc.

Vote: Vi

My guess is Vi-kuribo over Vi-charter. I

highly

doubt that Sche is scum. I think kuribo is more likely than charter based on the M-M kill last night, which indicates doc-hunting.

[kuribo]

I'm not liking alot of Vi's logic in trying to "sort things out."

And that makes me wrong, or scum? Of course, putting in your own two cents on it is welcome.

uh, I thought I made it clear yesterday that I think you're probably scum?

Of course, there's the possibility that we don't have a doc at all and that JDodge / Vi are the scumteam. But if neither of them were the doc, that makes it awful risky for both to claim doc. So, one of them is almost certainly a doc, which makes the other scum.


Hmm....

[kuribo]

broke my quote tag, the first part is Vi talking

[charter]

I didn't realize there could be a GF, haven't looked at the setup list in ages. Still waiting for Sche before I digest these recent events.