667: Random C9 (Game Over!)

[kuribo]

No. Sche investigates one of them tonight. He gets an innocent, then we know who not to lynch. He gets a guilty, we know who to lynch.

This from a guy whose only hope for survival under his own plan is to lynch the cop-confirmed innocent?

Who's to say that the fake doc isn't a Godfather? Course, if Sotty IS a cop, that means you're scum, and we won't have an investigation tonight if you get them to lynch me.

You've overplayed your hand, good sir.

Vote: charter

I call your bluff.

[kuribo]

Personally, I think charter reveals more about his intent than he lets on.

Perhaps his partner IS a Godfather, and he's hoping that even if he fails to get my lynch today, he's set up the seeds of doubt for tomorrow. So, if he's the lynch for today, then tonight the cop either investigates his partner or the real doc. Either way getting an innocent, and putting his buddy in a good position for the win.

[charter]

Why on god's green earth would the GODFATHER pull this counterclaim? Why would they risk the GF when the goon can do it and leave the GF to be immune to the night investigation?
Sorry, but your idea there doesn't make any sense.

[charter]

I'm actually reasonably sure kuribo is scum here. His whole reason for voting me is I'm voting him because I think he's the GF. It looks like a desperation ploy.

[kuribo]

Why on god's green earth would the GODFATHER pull this counterclaim? Why would they risk the GF when the goon can do it and leave the GF to be immune to the night investigation?
Sorry, but your idea there doesn't make any sense.

You're right, it makes much more sense to assume that the Cop has already investigated the Godfather, and figure we can lynch one of the claimed docs tomorrow.

And of course, the fact that you bring up this "defense" makes it even more likely that's exactly what's happened.

[charter]

Sche revealed before anyone claimed doc.
Also, I'm not the GF (meaningless, I know, but bear with me) and sotty isn't the GF. You certainly can be, and it's possible that one of jdodge/vi is as well. I'm bringing it up because you're the one that suggested that one of jdodge/vi is the godfather, which makes zero sense.

Personally, I think charter reveals more about his intent than he lets on.

What does this even mean?

[kuribo]

It means just what I said: I think you've set forth this argument in an attempt to put your partner in an advantageous position tomorrow.

[charter]

Why would the GF counterclaim doc instead of the goon?

[kuribo]

Why would the GF counterclaim doc instead of the goon?

Why not?

[charter]

Because sacrificing the goon leaves the GF to possibly be investigated, then making it so the town has to determine which of two is scum again. If the GF is lynched, an innocent is just as damning as a gulity. If there's no chance of a GF then it's an autowin assuming we get through today right. If there is a chance of a GF, kill the doc tonight and the town doesn't have an autowin.

So, why?

[kuribo]

Because the fact that you think to point out its unlikelihood makes it even more likely that such a play would be done to further confuse the town.

(ie, it's WIFOM to speculate as to whether they would or wouldn't)

[kuribo]

Because the fact that you think to point out its unlikelihood makes it even more likely that such a play would be done to further confuse the town.

[kuribo]

stupid CPU Quota, but you get the idea

[charter]

This isn't WIFOM. There is a distinct advantage to having the GF not counterclaim. I'm not trying to outguess what the scum did. I'm flat out assuming the GF would not be picked to counterclaim (I say counterclaim, but it could be just claim if Vi is scum, you get the idea).

And me pointing out an advantage to doing it (which I'm sure everyone could have seen why without me doing it) does not make it more likely to be done. PLUS how is me pointing out this confusing?

stupid CPU Quota

Agreed.

[kuribo]

I'm flat out assuming the GF would not be picked to counterclaim (I say counterclaim, but it could be just claim if Vi is scum, you get the idea). PLUS how is me pointing out this confusing?

stupid CPU Quota

Agreed.

When we assume, we make an ass out of you and some guy named Ume.

And it's confusing me, that's for sure.

[Vi]

Honestly, were I your scumpartner, I'd have done the same thing and attempted to get you lynched to put myself in a better position for tomorrow, especially when you consider that you're almost certainly not a godfather seeing as that would be an obnoxiously risky gambit (although somewhat clever, I don't think any scum power role in their right mind would dare claim a power role they know exists within the setup).

"Were I your scumpartner" WIFOM aside, I know of one scum power that would try it - a player who thinks he's clean countering someone he thinks can be bullied out of the game. If you get me lynched today, it doesn't matter if you're the Godfather or anything else; you win.

Why would a Godfather be the one counterclaiming? Perhaps because he has a better

[ingame]

reputation than his Goon partner, or more experience/confidence.*

Moreover, if the Godfather were so concerned about getting lynched today, then perhaps in addition to counterclaiming he would push the lynch pressure off himself. 'Sound familiar? This would in turn allow him to use investigation immunity such that if he were investigated N2, he would be able to indict the other player immediately. All of the benefits of claiming Doc plus all of the benefits of being a Godfather, even with an authentic Doctor in the game!

*Or because he was the first to arrive after the claim, or you get the idea.

charter's moves recently sync nicely with the second paragraph's motives, although ignore the part about quicklynching D3 because we would know that the Godfather had not been lynched by that point.

[Simenon]

Vote Count

Jdodge (1)- Vi
Vi (1)- Jdodge
kuribo (1)- charter
charter (1)- kuribo

DEADLINE! January 8th.

[Sotty7]

Why would the GF counter claim?

So they can purpose this plan of lynching outside the two claimed docs. So if we do that as a town and somehow guess right, then I will get another investigation. The GF is fine with this because they are immune to my investigations! It's the perfect ploy.

And charter you haven't said anywhere

why

we should lynch kuribo just that you think he is the GF. Give me some reasons WHY you think this.

[charter]

I'm flat out assuming the GF would not be picked to counterclaim (I say counterclaim, but it could be just claim if Vi is scum, you get the idea). PLUS how is me pointing out this confusing?

stupid CPU Quota

Agreed.

When we assume, we make an ass out of you and some guy named Ume.

And it's confusing me, that's for sure.

I assume (ha ha ha ha, assuming again) that you didn't answer my question because you know that your original statement was just wrong.

Ok. Say the GF counterclaimed (or claimed, just going to keep saying counterclaimed for simplicity). There is NO WAY they could have thought we'd lynch someone besides one of the claimed doctors. Earlier in the day, I myself even said that. I can probably find a quote from everyone saying about the same thing. I didn't even see another choice because this just seemed like the obvious right choice.

I guess this is much more obvious for me, because from my point of view, scum is either jdodge and vi, or kuribo and jdodge/vi. I've completely ruled out sotty, and pretty much ruled out jdodge and vi, because it makes absolutely no sense for them to do that as a scumteam. I need to try and make it your point of view too sotty.

Why would the GF counter claim?

So they can purpose this plan of lynching outside the two claimed docs. So if we do that as a town and somehow guess right, then I will get another investigation. The GF is fine with this because they are immune to my investigations! It's the perfect ploy.

And charter you haven't said anywhere why we should lynch kuribo just that you think he is the GF. Give me some reasons WHY you think this.

Well, there's really no way to prove there is a GF, all I can do is use a bunch of WIFOM for you to think about and let you decide, pretty much the same as I did (basically look real hard at day two).

I can give you a case as to why kuribo is scum. There was a good one on day one, I pretty much ignored it and was very wrong, so I'll resummarize for you.

If anyone changes their vote, if you are town, do not change yours.

Say the scumteam is kuribo+Vi. Vi puts his vote on kuribo, jdodge might put his on me to keep it even, but then Vi switches for a hammer. Just wanted to say this so we don't make some stupid mistake and lose.

[kuribo]

I still don't understand the assumption that there IS a godfather.

It could just as easily be C9, Two of Four A7, or Bird C9.

[Vi]

I still don't understand the assumption that there IS a godfather.

It could just as easily be C9, Two of Four A7, or Bird C9.

Probability mostly. It actually

couldn't

just as easily be C9 or Two of Four A7, although either one is still possible.

It IS possible that the obv-doc-hunting night-kill was part of a ruse for JDodge to propose Godfather C9 today; hence why I was hesitant to call Godfather C9 certain. Even so, it's good to keep in mind.

[JDodge]

I'll be back next week - I'm moving to a new house and things are a bit hectic.

[Simenon]

I'm open to adjusting the deadline for Christmas (and Jdodge), but I did set it late for this very purpose.

[Vi]

January 8 seems okay for now. As much as I don't to force a decision in a touchy situation like this, I want a decision to be made in the first place; and I'm cynical enough to believe it'll take a deadline to do it.

Please note the V/LA in my signature... I'll see you in a few days.

[Vi]

Catleia does not like you and will bump this topic until you say something.