667: Random C9 (Game Over!)

[Avinyl]

Moospiker's post 98 fels very wrong. It is not a good thing to stop defending oneself.

[afatchic]

yeah one quick point is that in post 97 by KR that is actually moospikers quote not mine, i got really confused because i didn't remember saying that. but yeah i don't like how he just kinda gave up defending himself and said believe me if you want, but i don't have anything else to say. at first i just got a newbie town feeling from him, but its quickly changing. can we get a vote count before i vote him?

[Moospiker]

I have two on me currently.

[afatchic]

L-2?

[charter]

yeah one quick point is that in post 97 by KR that is actually moospikers quote not mine, i got really confused because i didn't remember saying that. but yeah i don't like how he just kinda gave up defending himself and said believe me if you want, but i don't have anything else to say. at first i just got a newbie town feeling from him, but its quickly changing. can we get a vote count before i vote him?

This post screams scum. Every time I've seen someone 'come around' to a case against someone such as the one on Moo, that person has been scum. Need to do a reread before I reevaluate where my vote is.

[afatchic]

how did i just come around? i have been going back and forth with moospiker for half the game. please explain

[Moospiker]

I'm gonna agree with afatchic on this one. Charter, what do you mean? He has not changed his opinion at all there, all he said against some-one other that me was that he got confused when KR switched the quote name.

I HATE IT WHEN HE DOES THAT. HE DOES IT THE WHOLE TIME.

[Moospiker]

Was referencing KR switching quote names, just for clarification, not charter.

[afatchic]

Was referencing KR switching quote names, just for clarification, not charter.

with the bolded part? yeah i can't stand when people do that, cuz then people will look at it and attack the wrong person for it. always annoys me.

[charter]

You said you used to have a town feel of him, but it's quickly changing. This changing the read of a player in this manner is used by scum to switch over onto the next hot (and in this case, lynchable) wagon.
It's the manner in which you're changing your assessment that I find to be perfectly in line with how I see scum doing it that is making me suspicious of you. I would understand a sudden change to thinking he's scum based on something (such as asking for a claim too early) but you're doing a gradual shift when Moospiker's posts don't give me town vibes at all, and certainly don't facilitate a slow change over into thinking he's scum.

I think I can do my reread shortly as well.

[afatchic]

You said you used to have a town feel of him, but it's quickly changing. This changing the read of a player in this manner is used by scum to switch over onto the next hot (and in this case, lynchable) wagon.
It's the manner in which you're changing your assessment that I find to be perfectly in line with how I see scum doing it that is making me suspicious of you. I would understand a sudden change to thinking he's scum based on something (such as asking for a claim too early) but you're doing a gradual shift when Moospiker's posts don't give me town vibes at all, and certainly don't facilitate a slow change over into thinking he's scum.

I think I can do my reread shortly as well.

thats exactly what happened. he asked for a claim way too quickly, which made me suspicious. then everything he has done since then has seemed pretty much scummy as well. im just not into the idea that a person does one thing and deserves my vote, unless certain circumstances apply, which in a L-2 spot they don't apply. if you are into the whole meta thing you can see thats how i normally do it. however since i don't think i have many confirmed roles in games yet i don't see that as helping.

i guess the way i said it was what made it sound bad. i have been suspicious of moospiker most of the game, just not enough to put him at L-1 and give someone an easy hammer. longer days are better for the town, so i normally play cautious instead of rushing my actions. i just thought that on the first page he seemed town since he seemed to be trying to help, however once he was under pressure i haven't liked how he has acted at all. and it isn't the way you are making it out to sound that i saw an easy lynch target and jumped on it, i have been there the whole time.

[charter]

Why did you only express your dislike for his asking a claim after I already did?

[afatchic]

i don't remember, may not have noticed it. once again you can look at my meta, i have tried to lynch people who ask for claims, thats a null-tell with me.

[charter]

Asking for claims isn't bad. Asking on page three when there isn't an airtight case is. Asking in a joking manner isn't necessarily either, but this was clearly not the case here.

[afatchic]

Asking for claims isn't bad. Asking on page three when there isn't an airtight case is. Asking in a joking manner isn't necessarily either, but this was clearly not the case here.

the main thing that aggrevates me is that claiming is good, when done right. but it should only be used as a last resort. i attack so many people for being like its L-2 you better claim, or L-1 you better claim, when you haven't even provided your case and given him a chance to defend themselves. a claim should only come when you are nearly positive that they are scum and nothing they say can convince you otherwise, except a claim, which wasn't the case with moospiker here. hence, one of the reasons i think he is scummy.

[charter]

That would have been a good thing to post when the incident happened, not way after.

[afatchic]

That would have been a good thing to post when the incident happened, not way after.

yeah probably, i don't know why but i always assume its kinda given thats the reason.

[JDodge]

In conclusion, the scum are KR and Moospiker, who is making a really poor attempt at a bus.

what makes you so sure about this? the only way you can know who the scum are is if you are one yourself. and since i don't see your name in there at one of the scum, its either a lie, or a guess, so what makes you so certain?

I never said I was certain. I only said what I

thought

. You all love to take things as literally as possible, don't you?

Yet you don't have to give anything to support your claims?

I gave specific instances and an analysis. You've given sentences that disagree and do nothing else.

You've had your claims disproven by short, concise lines of logic, and you then continue to argue that they're true

despite

them being complete bullshit. And

you know it

.

Given that you are the one defending against my claim, maybe you should provide some evidence. Looking at your posts thus far, you seem to have a problem with it. Quote, if you please, instances where you have given "short, concise lines of logic" or I will quote where you have failed to do so.

1. Let's get one important thing straight.

The only evidence in a game of mafia is what the mod tells you.

There is no proof, there is only hypothesis and conjecture and theory; this isn't a major point, but the misuse of this annoys the hell out of me.

2. I'll do it later.

As to your point, a non-scum lynch does not require lying. Townies will act like townies, and scum will act like scum. Therefore, lying can be used only to make scum look like town and vice versa. Only scum would benefit from that situation.

If this was the case, seeing as most lies are easily spotted, then mafia would be incredibly easy for the town to win.

You can play as scum without lying, and you can play as town without being entirely truthful

. There is such a thing as "practice what you preach", in such a position that would make lying as town entirely unuseful. A better reasoning line is "what goes around comes around", in which you take the scum's best weapon (the almighty lie) and use it to counter their own lies.

Insults are hardly a proper rebuttal. You have no other way to defend yourself, so you put up this feeble attempt to deter me. You acted irrationally and my vote stands.

Yet irrationality is not in and of itself a tell. What's your real reason?

That being said

, I am indeed beginning to change my mind about KR slightly - afatchick seems to be more likely than KR every second, and his buddying up to Moo seems incredibly awkward and off.

[afatchic]

yes i like to take stuff as literal as possible then run with it.

and can you please explain how i am buddying up to moo? i have been attacking him most of the game, yet you say it is buddying up? it may seem like that since for a while it was only me and him posting, but i am in no way buddying up. this is quite entertaining, on the same page i get accused of jumping moo's bandwagon and then accused of buddying up to him. can you please provide some decent reasoning.

[Simenon]

Vote Count

Jdodge (2)- KrisReizer, Moospiker
Moospiker (2)- Jdodge, charter
Avinyl (1)- afatchic
KrisReizer (1)- starrie
starrie (1)- Avinyl

[Avinyl]

Unvote Starrie

. On further rereading, Moospiker feels wronger and wronger to me, but mostly it is just his post 98. I am going to be away until monday, but if I'm lucky i may be able to post something.

[charter]

I don't agree that 98 is a bad post. I find that as town I get more fed up and give up much easier than when I'm scum. I think Moospiker is scum for other reasons, but don't much care your reason for voting him however.

[afatchic]

charter i don't think thta was his reason for voting him since he hasn't voted yet, cal II test gotta go...

[afatchic]

I don't agree that 98 is a bad post.

I find that as town I get more fed up and give up much easier than when I'm scum

. I think Moospiker is scum for other reasons, but don't much care your reason for voting him however.

QFT. while i haven't finished many games to be able to see peoples roles and see if this applies to them, i know from personal experience that its true. i always get so aggravated when im town and can't convince them that i am town.

[afatchic]

starrie what are your thoughts on JD and moo right now? i would like to hear a recap on what you think about everyone at the moment.