Mini 573 - Darkstalkers Mafia - Game over!

[Claus]

I'm in the game now.

Will post tomorrow.

Hello

[Claus]

Reread of the game:

6- RoN complains about Day-starts. I find the complaint stupid, but okay.
8- SirT votes RoN.
12- DP votes RoN for complaining.

13- Alabasca votes RoN, unvotes, says it is L-1 (it isn't), then random vote someone else.
- We don't need to random vote anymore, this sounds a bit too cowardly :-/

14- GW chides RoN for the fury. I am particularly liking it at this point, many people are choosing to react (DP, SirT, Ooba), or avoiding to react (Alabasca) post 6. I don't like this post from GW for some reason.

15 - Armix votes Ala for the random vote.
16 - Ration comes for Ala's defense. (not a newb)
17 - RW jokes the whole thing.

23 - alabasca gives a reason for random votes. I think that the discussion around RoN was good enough to start the game, though.

27 - DW comes and says nothing.

30 - Gorckat votes Alabasca

32-37 - Alabasca unvotes, explains he thinks Random vote is a safe vote. Armix argues the analogy (I'm with Armix). Alabasca takes the position of "don't wanna be lynched" townie.

40-46 - Gorckat and SirT discuss Random.org. Gorckat is correct.

49 - GW cimes in. He is right that a large Random vote discussion is unfruitful.

51 - The questioning is good, but the poetry is annoying.
52 - lol.

55 - non sequitur. Armix found Al suspicious enough to VOTE him. duh.

57, 59 - why is GW answering for RoN here?

71 - spring votes DP for pushing a non-relevant case (in her opinion).

74 - ration unvotes. Why is the vote stupid? because people didn't jump on? Says will post later. Me no like, there is plenty of discussion already (DP questioning RoN, spring voting DP, armix voting ala, etc).

77 - GW lurkervotes RoN.
78 - armix lurkervotes RoN

79 - DW chimes in, says nothing.

86 - Ration says that RoN is scummy (why?) but he won't be voting now (I see).

94 - Gorkcat accuses Ala of being ambivalent towards the RoN wagon. I think Ala is looking more like a newb by now. I'm more concerned about Ration.

99 - RoN says "I'm here, will post later", armix immediately unvotes. Not earth shattering, but I would wait the "post later" part to come into being, I guess.

101 - Ala OMGUS gorkat, and admits it. :-/ don't know what to make of it.
104 - Ala backtracks.

105 - Ration gets replaced. That might explain his behavior, I guess.

107 - Armix votes Ala for backtracking.

108 - RW does not jump straight into the infant Ala bandwagon. Personal meta says that Scum-RW is more vote happy.

113,115 - Gorkcat pressures Ala

122 - Rogueben joins the game. Like his initial analysis, resonates with what I'm feeling right now.

123 - Spring says lurkers know what they risk. unfortunately, in the current meta, lurkers risk nothing. I think the town gains more than loses by taking a harder instance on lurkers.

125 - Whoa! While I agree with RW sentiment, this was unexpectedly aggressive, specially given the meekness feeling I was getting from RW.

126 - (post by ala) I'm not sure if this is wish-washiness, or failing to read the thread.

127 - Rogueben criticizes spring. I agree with spring that the meta is NOT an argument. Metas are good for shaping existing cases, but I don't like cases built entirely on metas. RoN's "speech" should be questioned by its relevance to this game, not by its relation to previous games.

131 - springs defense. I think she did a good job of defending herself, and I agree with her position on metas.

133 -
DP uses OMGUS to defend

"What have you done to hunt scum?"

Well, DP, she is attacking your case, for starters.

136 -
GW defends his RoN vote. There is a lot more going on, but he takes no part in that.

139 - Gorkcat lurkervotes me. Boohoohoo.

140 - Rogueben mirrors my current thoughts on GW

147 - Ala decides to post insightfull content, goes on a full barrage of criticism (but "Now, that being said, I don't think you had bad intentions") against rogueben, but decides to FoS gorkcat instead with an onliner...

150 - Gorkcat noted the same thing. Of course, since that implicates him a bit, he blames the difference on the lurkervote targets, not the voters. :-/

156 - If DP is going to post in annoying poems, he shouldn't be complaining when people don't answer to his questions, specially when those are posed as affirmations (like the one in the second paragraph).

I find posting in poetry like this an arrogant exercise, that does not help the town one bit. I'm not answering questions in poetry form.

163 - I wanna see GW talk about the game. You guys talk about lurkers, but this one is lurking in plain sight.

166 - RW votes DP for pushing spring too much and the poetry posting.

167, 168 - Seems nor dean nor GW are reading the game. GW, there is one vote (RW) on DP that mentions the rhyming.

169 - Alabaska defends DP. Is this the first time that he takes a firm stand?

170 - Oh, rogueben noted that as well.

Player analysis coming next.

[Claus]

Short impression about players.

===
Spring - Started a case against DP, saying that attacks based on Meta are scummy. In general, I agree with this. I think her defense on 131 was good. Her "lurkers know what they risk" comment does not bother me that much. Pro-townish.

DP - Obfuscates his posts with poetry. Started an attack against RoN based on meta, and kept pushing it without RoN's response. Started discussing RoN with other people who were defending him. When Spring attacks him for his case, he starts OMGUS her. I don't see her dodging his questions as he says. I don't find him that scummy, though.

RW - He sided with DP, then with spring on the DP-Spring case. Voting DP. Is not really participating a lot other than that. FoSes Alabaska

===
Alabaska- Extremely wishy washy. Deserves the votes he is getting.

===
GW - this guy, however, is not getting the attention he deservers. Answered questions for RoN, then
joined the bandwagon when it started to grow. Lurks in plain sight.

===
Armix: leading the town and the Ala bandwagon. I generally feel good about him, with the exception of the RoN unvote, but that is a minor point

Gorkcat: like Armix, participating strongly.

Rogueben: I found ration a bit scummy, but my thoughts are similar to rogueben's regarding other players, so I feel okay about him.

===
Ooba: People talk about lurking scum, but this guy does not have one single contentful post (and he is reading the thread, because he piped up to greet me). I don't think anyone has mentioned him, and I find this fact very interesting.

Flameaxe: Yet to Post, recently replaced.
DW: posted little, needs to make his position known.
===

=================================================================

It seems we have two dynamics going on: DP x Spring, and Alabaska

Alabaska is being pressured mainly by Armix and Gorkcat, and RW recently joined the
DP x Spring thing. I'm feeling that people in one dynamic seems to be largely ignoring the other.

Spring, DP, RW: What do you think of Alabaska, and the attacks against him?
Gorkcat, Armix, Alabaska: What do you think of the headbutting between Spring and DP?

Personally, I think Alabaska deserves the heat he is getting, and that the DP/Spring headbutt
seems like townie x townie.

GW, on the other hand, is getting much less attention than he deserves. He is not really lurking - he comes to post no-content posts, starts staying away from the RoN wagon, then answer questions for him when DP starts questioning him, then joins the bandwagon when it gets popular.

I feel GW deserves a vote more then Ala:

vote: GW

and since I only have one vote

FoS Alabaska

See you guys tomorrow!

[Claus]

Quick answer to current questions (weekend folks, sorry):

- gorkcat: Do you think if GW is scum, RoN is as well?

I think it is too early to draw such conclusions. Could also be plain buddying.

- Ala: 184 - don't like. Agrees with absolutely everything I say, and ties RoN and GW well together.

- Armix: "who falls on whose side of the argument" - that's kind of what I was aiming for.

- Ooba: I did not see the contradiction when I read. Your reading powers are better than mine *bows and stuff*

- DW answers, but only to Al's comment. I'll re-read his answer later more carefully.

195 - Al - OMGUS at its best. Tries to tie ooba with Spring - Al, spring opinion of lurkers is wrong, but not necessarily scummy, she had some other good posts. Your accusation of ooba in response is pretty poor looking.

196 - now Spring, GW, ooba and RoN are our 4 scum?

Al - I may even believe you that the contradiction is sarcasm, but it surely doesn't look good for you when you answer that with such desperate OMGUS attacks. There is a theory where scum which is voted by a silly reason gets even more angry than townies on a similar situation, and right now, you are fitting the bill.

=============

I'll re-read GW based on his responses, and post again later. Waiting for flameaxe's (and others') comments.

[Claus]

Flameaxe is on limited access now, but he said he would start posting by the weekend.

Yeah, me too. Got some friends visiting my place I hope I'll be able to make another megapost before the weekend.

[Claus]

Hey! I'm back! And I think I'll be more active from now on.

First, the short version:

Unvote

- I think GW answer to my attack was appropriate.

FoS DW

- You are right, Gorkcat, this guy completely slipped my radar. Maybe because he didn't vote and posted very little. But his few posts look like an "Yes Man". Once we deal with Alabaska, let's throw this one on the fire.

Alabaska: I'm not voting you right now, because I want you to say:
- your rolename
- the rolename of the SK
before you get into hammer-range. Cough that up, now.


Now to write the long version, with answer to questions.

[Claus]

Ok, commenting on posts that picked my interest:

GW's answers:

Like I said before, seem okay - specially in light of Al's rabid attack on him.

205 (Alabaska):

Because I think you're right? I'm not sure what else I should have said since I agreed with you…

It feels more like you latched to the fact that I found someone else voteworthy as a drowning man latches to a drifting piece of flotsam. Your PbPA of GW after my vote was really reaching.

How many do we have? I doubt they are all scum, just a couple possible pairs.

In absence of evidence to the contrary, I think that 9 town 3 scum is the norm for mini games. However, the point I was trying to make is that you were labeling a LOT of people as "sure scum", which to me indicates that you don't really believe in any of the cases you are making.

206 (Armlx - thanks Alabaska for the correction)

Elaborating:
I wanted people to tell us their instance on DP x Spring, because I think, like you, that someone falling on one side or the other of the argument too strongly would be a scumtell.

Players giving opinions on each other is always good, specially on day 3,4, after some people have been cardflipped.

210 (DP)
- Changing playstyle is not "a lie". I think you are making too much out of a meta, specially out of a first post. If we are to lynch someone, it should be for things they did on THIS game.

That said, on later posts you seem to have evolved past hugging this particular case too tightly, so let's move on.

211 (Gorkcat)

FoS'es me for not attacking Dean. What can I say, you are right - I must have put DW in the lurker bin too early, and did not pay much attention to his posts.

My initial reaction to your post was "Dean has not posted at all! Unlike GW, who is being scummy", like Armlx mentions later. After re-reading Dean, though, I see that his few posts were quite "Yes, yes, let's do this", and promises for content that are not backed up.

That said, we can put DW on the stack, and deal with him once we're done with Alabaska.

216 (Flameaxe)

Post seems Ok. I would like to hear more on why you think Ross is useless.

217 (Armlx)

Don't like the "standard warning". I believe all votes in a bandwagon are equal in the
eyes of the mod, and turning the headlights into the later votes seems like trying to
take away the responsibility of the bandwagon from the earlier voters.

Upon reading this post, I made a note to vote Al immediately and tell Armlx that if
he was so worried he could always unvote - I'll probably do that once Al answers my
question.

218 (DW)

Is this getting caught up on the game HOW?

222 - (GW)

If you had the time to meta Dean, how about re-reading three players on this game and giving us your opinion on them? I'll even let you pick

223 - (Gorkcat)

HUH? (edit: oh, it was a trap)

230 - (Spring)

Ok answer, still doesn't like DP and AJ. What do you think about Ross Willian and Rogueben?

234 - (Alabaska)

You're busy in school. Okay. But scum gets busy too, so don't use that as a defense. Regarding your post, you FoSed Dean. So right now you suspect 5 people:

Ooba, Dean, GW, Flameaxe and Spring.

Is that right? Which of the above you suspect more? Why? Did any of the above fall from your suspect list?

237 - (Gorkcat)
Ooh, 223 was a trap. GW, you REALLY shouldn't have answered this one.

238 - (DP)
DP lets go of Spring. Now he is after Dean. Ok.

240 - (Alabaska)
Claims SK Cop. Like someone else pointed below, not really buying it. Could be the SK himself. Want a flavor claim (rolename, and SK's rolename).

Makes a player list from his votees.

Points a contradiction on Rogueben - I don't really see it.

Clears Armlx, but then says that he feels there is a "link" between Gorkcat and Armlx.

attacks Flameaxe - well, was already in scumlist.

=======================

See you guys later!

[Claus]

I think the claim is plausible. I don't know that much about Darkstalkers, but if there were to be a SK/SKcop pair, Morrigan/Dimitri makes sense. That does not sound much like mafia safeclaim. The remaining option would be a SK safeclaim.

I don't like the way Rogueben has reacted to the claim. I'd like also to see what Drunken Piper and others who have not yet reacted to the claim think about it.

Because of this, I'd like to

Request Deadline Extension

One week should be enough.

[Claus]

Who do you suggest, GW?

[Claus]

I think there is only one reason to be interested in someone's rank, and that is to know if one's power would work on them. And the odds of such powers being

against them

is pretty high.

What do you think?

I think that if Alabaster is the SK cop, his power works on only one person - the SK. So it probably DOES work, regardless of rank. So the theory that armix would ask alabaska his rank to know whether or not he would "be vulnerable" to him is kinda pointless.

That said, I don't think Alabaska (or anyone else) should talk about their ranks freely.

[Claus]

You don't like my reaction to it?

Yeah. It felt kinda wrong, mainly the "Dimitri looks more like an Cult Leader than an SK". So you unvote per claim, but you still say that the claim looks wrong, and he is still scummy. This is pinged my scumdar a little.

Since I didn't FoS you or anything else, my scumdar had pinged just a little at the time.

I would like a good reason, and I suggest you think carefully about, in particular how it makes me more likely to be scum given his claim

While THIS reaction is much more interesting. Does it bother you that people are looking at your behavior? I don't like your overreaction. "Think carefully about it?" lol.

vote: Rogueben

Have you read the wikipedea articles on each of those characters?

No, I only read the article for my own role. I played Darkstalkers a little a long time ago, and I remember Morrigan being one of the main characters, and Dimitri being one of the main villains.

[Claus]

Hey, Xtomx! Cool!

[Claus]

1. How would it help mafia to jump off a claimed SKcop?
2. If I was SK, how would it help me to jump off a claimed SKcop?

Claus: Do you have answers for these questions?

Sure. But what does this has to do with the fact that Rogueben overreacted to a minor fos of mine? I think he is a better lynch than Alabaska (and much better than DP).

I would go for a DeanWinchester lynch as well, but I'll wait for the opinion of the replacees.

[Claus]

I would like you to answer the questions, I don't want people to become unaccountable for their suspicion and or votes.

Lol. Here is the thing. Those questions have nothing to do with my vote. My vote for you was solely in return to your overreaction to my commentary. THAT is what I find scummy enough about you to vote you D1.

Now, we are 48 hours away from a deadline lynch. I don't see DP dead today - didn't see him as scummy, and I would like to see if Alabaska will survive the night. Other people don't seem to have reacted to your overreaction, or to my vote in response of it (other than gorckat) - so you are probably not getting lynched today.

So I guess I'll jump on your boat and

Unvote; Vote

DeanWinchester

Xtomx

Since gorkcat pointed some perfectly scummy comments from DW pre-replacement, and Xtomx has done nothing to convince us otherwise - maybe he is just waiting for the duel to kill off some townie.

So, Xtomx, you'd better vote someone if you want to save your own skin.

[Claus]

I really don't think that you understand what I'm saying here. Something is only scummy if scum are more likely to do it. You are not willing to explain why scum would be more likely to do it, therefore I find that your justification for the initial FoS is lacking.

As it should be. The comment was not bolded, I don't even think I used the word scummy - it was not an accusation, it was a comment. The way you are overreacting to that, though, is what I call scummy.

You are trying to defeat my argument by combating a point that I am not making.

====

That said, with about 24 hours for the deadline, we have 3 people tied with 2 votes, and 5 people not voting. It would be REALLY cool if those not voting, or voting for the 1-votees, came up to justify their (non)-votes.

[Claus]

Finding rogueben lynch worthy and then voting the same person he is seems really fishy.

What does this mean?

This means that if I honestly find Rogueben scummy, I shouldn't be voting for the same person that he is voting. Which would make a lot of sense if there was only one scum group (we have at least two - scum and the SK).

I wish we had more players paying as much attention to the game as Gorkcat is.

[Claus]

Gorkat. I'm voting Xtomx/DW for three reasons.

1- Because of DW's few, on the wall comments, which you pointed out to me when I voted on GW, and I agreed at the time.

2- Because Xtomx promised a reread of the game when he was replaced a few days ago, and disappeared. Now, he could have disappeared because he is away, or because he is happy with either DP or Alabaska being lynched, and doesn't want to say so. So I decided to put him in the duel, to see to which side he would fall to save his own skin.

3- Because I don't have the time/patience to do a move that requires a re-read or something more than my current memories.

[Claus]

EBWOP: (Sorry, there is a fourth reason, that I wrote in my original vote post: because _I'M_ not happy with an Alabaska or DP lynch right now, and he is the best alternative).

While I can't complain because I'm kinda away myself, this deadline lynch is really annoying me: we got a really passive players with lots of people not voting :-/

[Claus]

Since we are so close to deadline, of course,
I am really looking for something from Xtoxm and OpposedForce.

(waiting).

Claus, why are you interested to see if Ala lives through the night?
When did you begin to know we had a SK in our sight?

...

CKD?? When did you replace into the game? You're not in the latest vote count.

Well, when Ala claimed. Either he is the SK or the SK cop, and if he is the SK cop, then we have an SK. I don't believe Alabaska as scum would claim SK cop. That is a gut feeling.

[Claus]

Oh! DP == CKD. Lol.

I think I'll respect your rhyming even less now

[Claus]

Thanks Ooba.

Unvote. Vote Rogueben

Anyone else would like to help us cleanse the town of scum?

[Claus]

Armlx, I don't think those not voting will suddenly get up and vote. Follow the force, vote RB.

Alabaska, you should vote SOMEONE too.

[Claus]

DR, what does JoAT mean? (if we're supposed to know, that is)

[Claus]

Okay. I think we can finish the 1 minute of silence for Ooba and Rogueben now.

vote: Xtomx

[Claus]

The vote count was looking pretty lonely, all empty like that...

[Claus]

How about you, what is the rationale behind your vote?

[Claus]

Hey,

I guess i'll end the game of chicken.

Thanks!

Alabaska - Is apparntly clear. I've also now seen he's an SK cop. So i'm satisfied that he's innocent.

This is a very grudgingly way to put it. Ala is not apparently clear. He's clear, period.

Armlx - I get a townie feel about his early posts, and agree with the random voting argument. Think the FOSing RB for requesting prods is rubbish, however it could be genuine. His pressing on Alabaska seems genuine to me. So I think he's town.

(... changing order for comparison's sake ...)

Gork - Now given Al's essentially clear, I think anyone turning away from the Al wagon looks good. So leaning town.

This is extremely wish washy. On one hand you use pressuring of Ala as a town tell, on the other turning away from the Al wagon is a town tell. I wonder which of these is the scumbuddy you are protecting.

Claus - I find the post analysis to be ugh, for want of a better expression. As I get to the your player analysis, I realise it's hard to comment before I check out the others you are commenting on.

(...)

I think the fact he was trying to get me lynched by himself at the end of yesterday is a town-tell, so for the moment I will put him as town.

Thanks for buddying up with me!

DP - I'm not a fan of peotry, lol. I don't know much at all...Anything, infact...About Darkstalkers, has it been discussed much what character he is likely to be?

Rolefishing much?

Flameaxe - I particularly don't like this comment:

Would you rather me vote who I found the least suspicious instead? unvote, vote: flameaxe. Wow, I see how much better this is! Why didn't I think of this before?!

I know it's sarcastic, but I don't like the point he's trying to make with it. All he said today is comments about the JOAT. Making comments about roles/setups is something I tend to find myself doing as scum. I think flameaxe is probably one of the scum.

I don't feel you're sure of this. Maybe this is why you waited until someone else voted to put your vote in?

GW - (...) The main thing I get on him is his belief of Al's claim seems genuine to me, so I think he's town.

Wish-washy. Really, the fact that Al was telling the truth and that we bagged the SK yesterday was a fluke.

(... about Ooba ...)

I am going to quote his analysis list, cos I think it might be useful.

(... posts list ...)

So, what was Ooba's list useful for?

RB - Was the SK. SK's can be considered townies, essentially, in terms of looking for mafia, just to point out.

I disagree with this. I think SKs don't act like townies, because they are survivors, and mostly disinterested in the lynch result - but this is purely theoretical discussion - not counting this against you.

PS: I love Darkstalkers, love it love it!! <3 <3 <3 <3!!!!

This strikes me as the type of comment a townie would make.

Really, why? (oh, btw, SL is a she).

Unfortunately, it's seems i've only put 2 in my scum section. I'm not saying i'm right but I like to have the right number of scum in my list...Which I assume to be 3, ofcourse. I guess Claus would be the lucky one who get's upgraded if I had to name 3.

Flameaxe and who? I don't remember you posting any strong opinions in the post above, and I just remember Flameaxe because you voted for him later. So why do I get upgraded to be the third scum over people you have no read either way?

My head officailly HURTS. I'm just gonna hit submit and hopes this comes out alright. I cba to check through all this.

Well, thanks for taking the time to re-read and write the above. Unfortunately (for you) now my previous vote, which was pretty much a random vote to get people talking in D2 (here is your reasoning, SL - I was expecting more people to react to it, though), has become a real vote.

I'm finding your analysis wish washy and scummy. I expected you to be a bit more solid on your opinions of other players.

I really wish more people would post.

[Claus]

Hello?

[Claus]

Meh, might as well post some content myself.

I'm not sure I see Flameaxe as scum - did not post that much content in my eyes - could go either way. I would love a more solid case to be made - a PBP or something.

Xtomx, still looking like a reasonable choice for a lynch.

I don't like the "so, what did you get yesterday?" from gorkcat. Rubbed me the wrong way, I'm not just sure how yet. The "RB with nothing better to do" excuse doesn't make much sense.

I would love more people (SL? GW? I don't even remember the whole playerlist) would weight on both Xtomx and Flameaxe and/or propose other lynches.

[Claus]

I don't like the "so, what did you get yesterday?" from gorkcat. Rubbed me the wrong way, I'm not just sure how yet. The "RB with nothing better to do" excuse doesn't make much sense.

Please let me know if it occurs to you why it bothers you or makes you uncomfortable that I'd be interested in people targeting Al.

What bothers me is that I can't see why town would do that. How does it help scumhunting?

But hey, at this point in the day, I'm much more interesting in seeing who thinks who is scummy and why.

By the way, I lol'ed at the way you asked that. Seems we're learning some lessons from yesterday

[Claus]

I'm much more interesting --> I'm much more interested

[Claus]

Well, if a watcher has any interesting results on Alabama, they will probably claim those results when appropriate.

How about looking back to D1 now and trying to find the scum in the old fashioned way?

[Claus]

Alabaska. Urgh.

[Claus]

I'm here, I'm just waiting to hear from people other than Flameaxe and Armlx. I'm not particularly interested in their exchange yet.

[Claus]

Indeed. I have a bit too much in my hands today to post right now, but I'll try to put out another analysis post by tomorrow.

Spring - you questioned my initial vote on xtomx when D2 opened, what do you think of it now?

[Claus]

Unvote. Vote Flameaxe

- I find the AITP meta to be utterly bullshit. Boo to metas. That said, I think Armlx is town voting on the right person for the wrong reasons.

I don't like Flameaxe's behavior during the 3 and 4 way duels D1. He basically stuck his vote on Alabaska, made some comments that did not influence the town in any way, and just sat back and relaxed waiting for the deadline*. Comes day 2, and all Flameaxe has to show us is a OMGUS vote on armlx.

Yeah, good lynch candidate. Also, upon re-read, I think that if Flameaxe do come up scum, there are some very interesting pairings to be made.

*Mind you, Flameaxe is not the only one that falls in this category.

[Claus]

Please don't. We lynch Flameaxe today and the game returns to normalhood (with one less scum, that is).

[Claus]

Please don't. We lynch Flameaxe today and the game returns to normalhood (with one less scum, that is).

This is not effective scumhunting.

No, it is not. However, I have no problem voting disruptive players out of the game.

Since you seem to have left the "fuck off" mode, though, let me
respond your previous post.

I'm sorry for finding everything about Alabaska scummy, but I outlined it fairly well, and showed I thought he was scummy. Every post influences the town.

Yup, you made nice case against AJ on your post number 3. The way AJ played D1, though, even half asleep scum could put up such a case together without much trouble.

On the other hand, after the AJ wagon died, but he was still tied to a lynch to DP, a player you have never commented on, and Xtomx/DW, a player on who you did not have strong opinions, you were pretty confortable in not saying anything.

It isn't OMGUS. I have a valid reason, while he does not. I've been busy defending myself against empty cases all day (see Xtoxm's).

Really? What is your valid case against Armlx? All I see is Armlx pushing you for the AITP meta, and you eventually getting pissed at him and voting him back. If you have anything more than that, I'm interested in hearing.

IF I come up scum. You don't seem as convinced as you are trying to seem.

Yeah, I don't know who the scum and the town are. Sorry about that. But voting on someone who sleeps through deadline lynches, who is voting on a guy I have a town read on for OMGUS reasons, and whose only response to pressure seems to be "fuck you" seems like a pretty got bet.

[Claus]

Her and Opposed Force (I guess that goes without saying)

[Claus]

Just to say I'm around.

[Claus]

Hmmmm. A cult, a mafia AND an SK?

1- You have information that there is a cult AND a mafia in this game, or do you have information that there is a cult in this game?

2- when you got that "information", did you get anything that might lead us to the cult/mafia member?

3- What do you think of the players who were under scrutinity today? (Xtomx, Flameaxe, and Armlx to a lesser degree?)

[Claus]

(Still waiting for my questions to be answered, and now I want to also so why there has been a delay in answers my questions!!!!!)

Was any of those questions directed at me? I might have missed them among the Rhymery.

[Claus]

1) I know as far as the mod can be trusted that there is a cult.
(...)
I debated with myself during all of day 1 whether to bring up the subject of cult since town seemed to be unaware of it existence;

Ok. So I gather that you were informed of cult existence on your role PM then. Fair enough. Did you at least breadcrumbed the existance of a cult D1?

I'd suggest that you dump now everything that you know about the cult, including the rolename of the cult leader - we may have a rolecop among the town powerroles that could use the info.

My statement that there is a mafia was an assumption based on the fact, which has surprised me, that there was a kill last night despite being down an SK.

There is a simpler answer: Vig. I think a SK/Mafia/Cult combination to be too much for a 12 player game.

unvote: Flameaxe

One reason of my vote is that I was seeing a strong link between Flameaxe and another player. Since I'm now assuming (for the time being) that we don't have a mafia, I'll have to reconsider my vote.

2) I know the role name of the cult leader, but I do not know their identity. But if I were to speculate, I'd say Alabaska is the obvious cult recruit choice after D1.

3) I haven't formed a strong impression yet, and I haven't read everything yet. Will get to it eventually.

I hope you do. You were in a privileged position on D1 and most of D2 to observe who would act more knowledgeable than the rest.


=====

Crazy idea: Everyone has powers. If those powers are confirmable, maybe a mass roleclaim would out the cult leader? I'd like an yes/no from people without elaborating much at the moment.

[Claus]

Gorkcat, given the fact that we have a cult, and a SK, and 12 players, do you think we have a mafia as well?

[Claus]

I know Armlx, you said it before. I wanted to ask what everyone else says.

What I REALLY should be doing is re-reading the thread for signs of cult-hood, but no time to do that now

[Claus]

I think that Gorckat should reveal the names. We probably caught the Cult Leader red-handed here.

[Claus]

With a cult a 2 man mafia and sk, thats 4/12 scum ration which is standard, so it does make sense setup wise.

Not really, if you think that cult, 2 man mafia and an SK means possibly 4 pro-town players down every night (1 culting = 2nks). That is just too swingy.

[Claus]

I think that Gorckat should reveal the names. We probably caught the Cult Leader red-handed here.

Even if I out a doc?

I thought about that. I'm pretty sure we have no mafia, and the doc was intended for the SK.

[Claus]

I had a feeling you would point your other finger at Opp. Force.

I might as well claim.

I'm Anakaris (the mummy guy), and I use my coffins to protect people from harm. When S.L. revealed that she new of cults, I asked the mod if my protection included culting, and he gave me an ambiguous answer. So I think I do not protect from culting.

Going to sleep now, see you guys in a few hours.

[Claus]

Mod

: Given that whatever Opposed Force tells us will be important, and will likely have to be discussed in detail, can we have a deadline extension for 1 week after the replacement arrives?

[Claus]

Let me go over this, but let it be known that I am a doc/blocker.

C-C-C-COUNTERCLAIM!!!

vote: Mokina

I am the doc-blocker. I never said I was a doc. I was waiting for you to do this.

You should, like, have claimed cop, or doc, or something.

[Claus]

BTW, I know the correct term is "Jailkeeper", but the mod has written doc/roleblocker on all the PM's that I sent to him asking for clarification on my role.

[Claus]

it feels like he was trying to quicklynch before a replacement arrived. Either that or we have two docs.

Yeah. That is why I waited for you to show up and claim before voting you. That is why I also asked the mod for a 1 week deadline extension post replacement.

But now that we both claimed the same role, the decision is easier - one of us get killed, and if we bag the wrong one (I hope not) the vig kills the other.

[Claus]

I asked DR about my ability and he replied ambiguously. He tells me that it's "the normal ability of a doc and the normal ability of a roleblocker, combined."

Unvote.

:-/

I received the exact very same PM when I asked for clarification.

I don't think the mod would give Mokina this much information for a fakeclaim. Maybe we do have multiple jailkeepers?

[Claus]

Armlx - if me or Mokina were lying, what would you think the liar actually is?

[Claus]

I have already claimed my name - I'm fine for a nameclaim. But I think the cult recruiter probably has a safe fakeclaim.

Mokina - re-read my posts -
I never proposed a quicklynch of you as you say I did. I said that I got the same "ambiguous" PM from the mod BEFORE you did it. If you lynch me, the vig will kill you tonight, because they will think you are lying about your power.

As I said, I don't think there is a mafia. Ooba's death was probably vig work - Vig + cult seems like a normal setup decision. Anyway, If you think I'm scum, who would be my partners?

Also, I just realized that probably neither of us (Mokina + Me) can be the cult recruiter - cult-ability, non-cultability probably has to do with role power levels (S class Darkstalkers - not recruitable. B-class darkstalkers - recruitable) - maybe S.L. can confirm/deny this theory?

I think I have a good hunch on who could be a good cult recruiter... will re-read for that now.

[Claus]

The later means that if Claus = town, Monika = town, which is mutually exclusive with 1 is lying. Therefore

I don't think 1 is lying.

vote: Armlx

I think you are the cult leader sir, based on your questionings regarding Power Level on day 1, and your insistence on there being a mafia. I'll remove my vote if you have information that confirms the existence of a mafia, or reasonably justify your interest in power levels.

[Claus]

Lies. You declared yourself the Doc-Blocker in post 597:

I'm Anakaris (the mummy guy), and I use my coffins to protect people from harm. When S.L. revealed that she new of cults, I asked the mod if my protection included culting, and he gave me an ambiguous answer. So I think I do not protect from culting.

I'm the one doing the counterclaiming. Happy with my vote.

Mokina. Stop. And think.

Read 597 again. And again. I never said the word DOC or BLOCK - specially, I never said I had a blocking power in that post.

Consider the possibility of we both having the same role. Specially a jailkeeper role, which is a weakened doctor, on a game where ALL 12 PLAYERS are power roles.

If I'm lying, what would I be?

- not cult recruiter, since the cult probably can't recruit S-level Darkstalkers.
- not mafia because
a- there is no mafia
b- if mafia killed Ooba, what would I be doing targetting
AJ, who doesn't threaten a possible mafia?
c- Mafia wouldn't kill a mafia-harmless AJ with lots of other possible
mafia-harmful powers around.

[Claus]

I have already said this, but for the sake of clarity:

If you want to mass nameclaim, go ahead.

That said I think the Cult recruiter possibly has a safe fakeclaim. Mass nameclaiming would probably just let the Recruiter check the wiki for the power levels of the players (assuming the mod is using the real power levels), and find out who is recruitable and who isn't.

[Claus]

Armlx, before people quicklynch me, respont to 636 and 642, please. Give us a reasoning for 636.

[Claus]

As I said, I don't think there is a mafia. Ooba's death was probably vig work - Vig + cult seems like a normal setup decision. Anyway, If you think I'm scum, who would be my partners?

4. AGAIN, I dont think we have a vig.

Any reason? Vig is a fairly common role. If you just "think" there is no vig, your thinking is as valuable as my thinking there IS.

5. Claus’ most recent posts in light of Mok’s claim looks like scum floundering.[/i]

Because I said we don't have a mafia? I have been saying that since the cult was revealed, before Gorkcat even said he was a watcher. It is not like I changed my story or anything.

[Claus]

How do I know who the Cult can recruit -> That's my best guess.

How I know Alabaska's level? -> check the wiki for Morrigan.

I have to leave now, please don't lynch me before I get back to answer questions.

A question for everyone:
- If you think me or Mokina is lying, do you think the lying one is Mafia or Cult Recruiter?

Oh, and this:

Claus confirming Mokina as town.

I'm confirming that Mokina received the same clarification PM from the mod as I did. If you think I'm lying, than you can't say that I'm confirming her as town. :-/

[Claus]

I have evidence that there is a mafia that I'd rather not reveal right now.

Unvote

Very well. Lynch this guy tomorrow if he doesn't show that evidence up.

[Claus]

If you REALLY think I'm cult, there is a very easy way to test this:

Lynch Alabaska (both me and mokina said we don't know if we can protect against culting). Have me and Mokina target each other tonight.

That said, I don't think either of us are cult. I would like S.L. to come up an tells us what she knows about how cult works.

[Claus]

keeping in mind that fake nameclaims are hard to pull off with such a small cast of characters.

A nameclaim would be great if we have a namecop around. However, there MUST be valid fakeclaims, because else the game would be easily breakable, and I think DR is a good enough mod to prevent that.

That said, for the chance that we DO have a namecop, let's go ahead with a mass nameclaim.

[Claus]

Is NL worse than lynching me?

Yes. But those two are not our only options. I have to do some work, then I'll take a hard look at the thread and look for other alternatives.

[Claus]

Ok, DP is the right lynch. He could be lying CL. If he shows scum, Claus gets jailkept and stopped from doing anything.

Vote: DP

The cult-cop can always check me or Mokina up tonight.

====

The "safe claim" claim of DP is extremely funny:

- He said he had 2 _role_ safeclaims, not _rolename_ safeclaims. Also, the TWO role-safeclaims he said he had are roles that already appeared in the game: those safeclaims are not "safe" at all! (nevermind that the two safeclaims are the roles that have appeared in the game so far!)

I'd expect safeclaims to be main character names who are not in the game, not roleclaims that would tell the mafia which roles are in the game or not.

[Claus]

The cultist was roleblocked by my predecessor (given that there were two mafiosi, a single block wouldn't prevent a kill) but the mafia shot the JoaT.

Bzzzt. Wrong.

1- Your predecessor targetted Alabaska. I targetted Alabaska as well.
2- We both said that the mod was ambiguous regarding whether our powers block culthood or not.

IF me OR you are a lying cult leader, the culting was not blocked.
If we're both telling the truth, then the CL is someone else, and we have no information on whether the culting was successful or not.

We wake up the next morning, scared... but we lynch the cultist anyway.

Except that we don't know who the cultist is.

Endgame. Armlx comes up with a fake cop result. Scum win.

I don't think Armlx is a fakecop, not just yet. If us two are the only protective roles (and we both agree not targetting Armlx), Armlx is going to be dead fairly soon. A cop living 3 nights until endgame would be fairly suspect.

[Claus]

(given that there were two mafiosi, a single block wouldn't prevent a kill).

What???

[Claus]

Why is Alabaska the cultist again?

[Claus]

DP-SL thing yesterday as Claus (well RossWilliam) was the one who took a side.

Are you reading it right? I replaced SirT, not RossWilliam.

[Claus]

Again. I think DP is full of lies.

What kind of safeclaim is this that fits exactly with existing power roles? Moreover, that fits exactly with the few power roles already revealed?

[Claus]

Fuck it, may as well just say it at this rate. I'll be dead/culted tonight if I don't.

I'm John Talbain, a cop. No specific faction here, which is why I was still suspect of Alabaska post claim yesterday.

In case you get culted/killed tomorrow, do you have any extra info you want to share with us about your role?

- Any flavor;
- How certain you are of sanity;

etc?

[Claus]

The sanity issue: you could be
- paranoid;
- DP is actually the CL and was trying to buy time by claiming scum;

[Claus]

You know what? Maybe the three of us (Armlx, Me, Mokina), should stop posting for a while and leave the low posters (GW. Xtomx, SL) with less of a headache.

[Claus]

Claus:
Were you aware of the existence of a cult before I brought it up today?

Aware? No. I considered it when I first read the game description ("changing alignments" - when it was announced in Mafia x Wolfes), but by the time I had replaced in, I had forgotten about it.

[Claus]

Well, some shit certainly has gone down. I am still confused about how I am a cultist. I am not a cultist. Anyway, have the jailkeeper/cultist target each other, have spring look at me to clear any confusion, lynch DP, and we lose armlx/the jailkeeper/no one.

I'm pretty sure you're not a cultist, because I know I'm not the CL, and I think Mokina is telling the truth about her roleclaim.

Still, other players seem to doubt that both me and Mokina have the same ability. Since DP was caught, and he seems not to be partners with either me and/or mokina, those who don't believe our claims can only believe we are CL, and thus, that you are a cultist.

Interesting that Gorckat has claimed that his watching is only 1 shot. That means that he either is a JOAT (thus confirming the possibility double roles), a mafia watcher, or a culted watcher. I would hope the first option to be the truth

Finally, I'm sad that the town is putting so much trust in what a claimed mafia has to say. (SL asking DP about his fake claims, Armlx assuming that the number/type of fake claims is true) In all the games where I saw that happen, this has never gone well to the town.

[Claus]

Good night, DP. (and come back as CKD next time, the poetry is annoying )

[Claus]

Armlx: Meh. I think we can expect 2 scum from the SK + CL + scum thing. (more than 4/12 scum would be a bit too much)

Mokina, Armlx, Gorkcat: good luck scumhunting tonight.

[Claus]

Told ya we had a vig (never would expect him to be flameaxe, though)

[Claus]

BBM = flameaxe's user name in AIM.

Armlx, do you mind if Mokina answers first?

So, where is everybody?

[Claus]

Man... is this too good to be true?

Before bumrushing Xtomx, I actually want to know what SL has to tell us about the cult. If the CL went unchecked, the could should be 3 people strong by now - if they manage one more recruitment, we lose tomorrow (which would suck, after 3 successful lynches)

Mod: prod SL?

[Claus]

I roleblocked/doc'd Claus last turn.

Ok. Maybe Armlx has already guessed as he said, but I actually tried to block Flameaxe last night. You may remember that I was suspicious of him on D2 (before the cult/etc talk).

I was pretty sure that Mokina was telling the truth yesterday. Now the fact that Flameaxe is dead means that I was roleblocked last night, and completely confirms Mokina in my eyes.

I'm also not sure what Dead Rikimaru's conventions on cults are; does the first convert become the leader when the leader dies? No clue.

Trying to outguess the mod will not help us now. Let's wait to hear from SL, who is the only one who has shown to have any clue about cults so far.

[Claus]

Mokina, I think you are jumping at shadows a bit too much. We should wait for the information the other power roles have to give us.

With 1 scum, 1 sk dead, and another scum pointed by Gorckat, I think we can brute force the rest of the game out with the N1/N2 results of the remaining power roles.

[Claus]

Heh. Come on Xtomx. Are you mafia with DP, or are you going to counterclaim gorckat?

[Claus]

Lol. I don't see much point, wouldn't save me.

Okay. Thanks for being cool about it. I'm also not interested in lynching you until we get the last drop of info possible from this day.

Yeh i'm the scum blocker. I blocked you actually Claus so Mokina isn't clear, unless you aren't affected by that? I dunno. Just so you don't get screwed over by that. I believed your claim, wasn't sure about Mokina, and I wanted to block the doc so my kill didn't get screwed up

Well. Your scenario is certainly possible, but you will understand if I'm a little sceptical of that - you could be lying to cast doubt on Mokina.

Why didn't you try to kill one of us, though (blocking me/killing Mokina or vice-versa)?

[Claus]

Duh. I just reminded the little lovely exchange between you and Flameaxe D2. Makes perfect sense. Good shot.

Hmmm. I wonder if DR will take this gentleman's conversation between town and mafia to his nightscene *waves to the camera*. lol.

Seriously, though. I'll go back to my cave and wait for Ms SL to grace us with her presence.

[Claus]

Come on, SL. Be less mysterious with us. It is annoying.

[Claus]

Oh, and DP was cardflipped. He is BBHood, Mafia, Non-darkstalker. What else do you want?

[Claus]

WTF? All mafia are claiming today?

I can only win in the endgame IF I consume dead souls and move them from resting in peace, to burning in hell.

8- PM QUOTING
(...)
Winning condition for town is: “You win when all threats to the demon world have been defeated,

even if you are Resting In Peace.

”

I would like to remind everyone that people whose souls are "Burning in Hell" do not win at endgame.

So SW just claimed to be a survivor whose win condition means everybody else loses? There is a nicer name from that.

Since Xtomx is a blocker AND can kill at the same night, I guess we lynch Xtomx and jail SW. But now that SW has "answered", I want to hear more from SL. Can you stop being mysterious now?

[Claus]

Sorry about the GW/SW thing.

So, what did you do night one? And what happened when you moved the body of Dimitri? Anything interesting?

[Claus]

I guess we have our mass claim now. Claimed roles,
and my reasons to believe each of the _roles_.

===

03- springlullaby
- Claimed to know about cults. voted GW today.

04- GhostWriter
- Claimed to be Q-Bee, survivor, who has to move "1" soul to BIH to win.

07- Mokina (OpposedForce (RossWilliam))
- Claimed to be Rikuo, Jailkeeper.
> Has same clarification PM as me. Prevented me from protecting
> Flameaxe.

08- Alabaska J
- Claimed to be Morrigan, SK Cop.
> SK showed up according to claim

09- Claus (Sir Tornado)
- Claimed to be Anakaris, Jailkeeper.
> Me.

10- gorckat
- Claimed to be 1-shot watcher, 1-shot cop, etc
> caught xtomx, watched me and Mokina D1

11- Xtoxm (DeanWinchester)
- Claimed to be Mafia Roleblocker
> claimed mafia

12- armlx
- Claimed to be a Cop
> Caught DP.

===

I'll wait for SL to tell us more about what she knows about cults before further analysis.

[Claus]

I actually asked if it would be okay for me to not do anything, because I was afraid of being attacked while trying to get the soul.

Why were you afraid of being attacked while getting the soul?

What kind of attack?

[Claus]

Gorckat, do you have a 1-shot vig ability?

[Claus]

- Xtomx targetted Flameaxe because flameaxe abused him verbally during D2, almost driving him out of the game. That's xtomx-like.

Will think about the rest later.

[Claus]

I think it is most probably GW (as per his roleclaim). But hey, we may go wrong, and we should plan accordingly.

Other possibilities (from unlikely to "no-way!")

- Mokina: I could have been roleblocked only by Xtomx.
- Armlx: His guilty result on DP could have been a failed recruit.
- SpringLullaby: The Mother of All Gambits.

Mind you, I don't REALLY believe the above - I think GW will flip cult leader.


So here is my suggestion. We lynch GW.

If he comes up Cult leader, me and mokina block Xtomx, and tomorrow we start the hunt for culted people.

If he does NOT come up Cult leader then:
- SL investigates Armlx (and vice versa)
- I roleblock Xtomx
- Gorckat shoots Mokina (if he has a 1-shot ability)

Or something like that.

This plan isn't very fleshed out yet... feel free to help me iron it out more.

[Claus]

Though, I did not have the foresight to precise Jedah was cult as I did not anticipate a mafia.

SL, what does this mean? You were not certain that Jedah was the cult leader?

Can you only find out Jedah? or his culties as well?
What does your flavor tells you about Jedah?

[Claus]

Oh, I'll be away for the rest of the night, but I'm confident enough for:

vote: GW

[Claus]

Waiting for more info from SL and Gorckat. What were their night actions?

Let's not start fighting just yet.

[Claus]

Okay. Spring, what did you find out last night?

[Claus]

False. I roleblocked Armlx.

[Claus]

I roleblocked Armlx.
Mokina has obviously roleblocked Xtomx, since he didn't kill.
Gorckat got a real watcher result N1.
Xtomx has killed flameaxe N2.
Alabaska is clear as per Rogueben.

Now, opening the day, I was in doubt if the cult leader was SL (master of gambits) or Armlx (fake cop). Since Armlx has lied about his result ("SL is clear")...

[Claus]

Also, Gorckat one shot investigation returned the result "non-darkstalker". In other words, it was a mafia role-copping, since the SK and the CL are both darkstalkers (as per Alabaska and SL).

Armlx has claimed to be a generic "Anti town" cop. His roleclaim was extremely vague "bla bla tailbain, bla bla warrior code".

Anything to say in your defense, Armlx?

[Claus]

Except that you "cleared" SL, and SL cleared me.

Make up your mind.

[Claus]

vote armlx

[Claus]

Lol.

- Armlx claimed that SL was "clear". I roleblocked him. So - he lied about his result.
- Armlx has first claimed he was a generic "cop", now he is claiming to be a mafia cop.
- He never gave us a precise flavor claim. SL and Alabaska know their flavors. Gorckat knew his flavor for his 1 shot mafia-cop ability (not a Darkstalker - mafia are not darkstalkers).

Armlx, if you hadn't tried to lie about your result, I would probably go with you on a SL lynch today (and roleblock you again if it showed up wrong). But you gave yourself away. Sorry.

[Claus]

All your recruits unconvert? Agh. That sucks.

B-class? That's 2 thirds of the game I guess. DP, Xtomx, Ala, the SK are the only S class. I don't think there are any A class darkstalkers around.

[Claus]

Well. Lynch Armlx, roleblock Xtomx, lynch him tomorrow.

Unless the two of you want to "put down the king" and go straight to endgame?

[Claus]

Put down the king comes from chess. When you see that you can't win in your current position, it is courteous to give the win to the opponent.

In our current situation, it means that since:
1- Xtomx is the only mafia;
2- Armlx is the cult leader, and claims to have not recruited anyone yet;
3- the town has two roleblockers;

They both give up and town wins. Unless there are any other anti-town sides (which I have no reason to believe there is), we could just skip the two obvious lynches (xtomx and armlx), and go straigth to endgame.

[Claus]

For instance, Gorckat, how come you didn't see armlx being roleblocked?

It depends on the mod. Some mods rule that roleblocked actions aren't seen by trackers. Others rule that they are.

[Claus]

Ok. Then let's do this then everyone:

Propose: Cult and Mafia resign. Town wins.

And just in case the mod does not recognize the request:

Vote:Armlx

(Alphabetical priority).

[Claus]

Guys. You're waaaay to untrusting.

What would I gain by saying that armlx is the CL, him being a cultie, and bussing him? REALLY?

Suppose for a second it is true. You kill armlx. It is revealed that I'm lying. Mokina roleblocks me tonight, and you kill me tomorrow. What kind of gambit is that? If that was REALLY a gambit, I would be trying to lynch Xtomx, not Armlx.

No, that makes no sense. Armlx was simply caught on a lie, and now knows he can't win.

It is not some devious master plan. Town won. Just that. The setup had two roleblockers (me, mokina), two JOATs (Gorckat and Ooba), two mafia (Xtomx and DP), A SK and SK cop, a Cult and cultcop, a vigilante and a survivor.

The cult leader tried to recruit mafia D1, Flameaxe D2, and was roleblocked today.

Now, let's end this game, please?

Over and out.

[Claus]

About DR not allowing a resignation, nobody has seconded it, of course he won't consider. Just quicklynch armlx.

[Claus]

Gorckat. Suppose that Armlx has a cultie.

We lynch Armlx, then we lynch xtomx. Game is not over. Then we go no-lynch until SL has investigated everyone.

Xtomx can do both at once, but he is can't do any if he is roleblocked. I asked DR that last night, to know if it was necessary that both me and mokina roleblocked him, or just one of us.

[Claus]

If Armlx is the cultie and I'm the CL that would've been even more stupid, because SL cleared me yesterday - so unless SL is lying, I'm not the CL.

What do you want to hear from her again?

[Claus]

But Gorckat tracked Armlx to SL tonight, right? So if that were true, the CL is still armlx.

[Claus]

Mokina. Stop listening to caught scum. Why don't you lynch armlx to see if I'm lying. You know you can roleblock me if he turns out non-CL.

But please, please, if he DOES turn out CL, block xtomx, ok?

[Claus]

Xtomx, then please explain to me what is wrong in the

Lynch armlx
- If CL block xtomx
- if not CL block Claus

plan.

[Claus]

Yeah, you don't have an answer, and is just playing on Mokina's fears.

[Claus]

Mokina:

Gorckat watched me target Alabaska on N1
You roleblocked me on N2

How could I have 2 recruits, if I were the CL? Stop listening to Xtomx FUD (fear uncertainty doubt).

[Claus]

SL reverts to SK??

What??? Where did THAT come from?

Mokina, have you even heard what I said? How can I be the SL AND have two recruits if you roleblocked me on N2 and I targetted Alabaska on N1?

Xtomx has now flipflopped again to Armlx being the CL. You're trying hard to find a way to the endgame, aren't you?

[Claus]

now the cult can kill.

On a 12 player game. With and SK and a Mafia and a vig.

lol.

[Claus]

I'm off. Mokina is not even trying to listen to me anymore. Good luck getting hints from a mafia member who is trying everything he can to survive to endgame. Please notice that each and every one of his suggestions require that you do not roleblock him or kill him ever again.

Hope the other townies have more sense.

[Claus]

How to prove Claus is not a cult Recruit in 3 easy and simple steps:

Step 1:

On Night one, Armlx targetted DP.

Evidence:

Armlx found out, on D2, that DP was mafia.

Thus, Claus could not have been culted N1

Step 2:

On Night two, SL targetted Claus. And found him clear.

Evidence:

(Day 3) http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 24#1068824 - says she targetted Claus.
(Day 3) http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 69#1069669 - says she can detect cultees.

Thus, Claus could not have been culted N2

Step 3:

On Night three, Gorckat saw Armlx target SL. Claus claims to target Armlx.

Evidence:

Since we know from step 2 that Claus is not a cult, armlx was blocked. Also, Armlx did not target Claus N3.

Thus, since Claus could not have been culted on N1, could not have been culted on N2, and cult not have been culted on N3, Claus is not a cult recruit.

Now can we lynch Armlx already?

[Claus]

Wow you guys are doing my job for me!

<3

This is from two pages ago How far have we gone?

[Claus]

Mokina, block whoever your heart tells you to. I'll block xtomx.

[Claus]

vote: Xtomx

[Claus]

*shakes hand at xtomx* I knew you did it on purpose, xtomx!

[Claus]

Thanks for the game everyone! This one ranks up with Urban Dead for my favorite game in the site.

Comments about the setup:
- Good job with the duplicate roles to confuse the town!
- Maybe mafia was a bit underpowered?
- Why the "recruiter dies, everyone unconverts" mechanic? I think it was too harsh on the cult.
- People losing their powers when joining a cult, AND the cult leader not knowing their roles AND cult not speaking at night = cult not being able to effectively fake their night results?
- Your clarification PM to Mokina really made me "clear" her... I'm not sure what could have been done about it.

Comments about the game:
- This town really made all the right choices at night. And I'm sorry for pushing for the GW lynch
- I felt really proud for the SK lynch (even though I know it was kind of a fluke).
- Armlx made some bad daychoices - why did you brought out that DP was mafia when the town was going at me and mokina's throats? why did you say that SL was clear when you had gotten no result?
- I really liked Gorckat in the game: he really made all the right questions (although was also bitten by the distrust bug).

[Claus]

Hehe, I suck at large games... maybe as a late replacement...

On the other news, I feel this game merited some title nominations:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 57#1092657