Tales of You (Endgame)
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MastinSSK Goon
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Oh.
I forgot.
Has a role that is deeply, deeply threatening to them, actively claimed.
Not just the rolecop, but also gladiate aspect of it.
Seriously. All there.
Also, something worth considering--Mac easily coulda protected Rancid, yet because lolcabd, both died through some weird role shenanigans.-
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MastinSSK Goon
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Figure I might as well address this.In post 3712, Yggdra Union wrote:ITT mastin tries to look oh so town by acting like she doesn't care that I'm taking it as a scumclaim if she responds to my posts
It's as I said. The rift's there. You're hounding for my blood, and will either refuse to respond or scumread literally every point I make, so it's not like the void can get much worse by me posting responses to you. It can get better, though. Basically minimal risk, for high potential reward.
Like, I get your concern about noise noise noise, drowning the thread out. I also get your concern about your questions and points and whatnot getting lost. But while me not intervening would seem like wisdom, the warning in my heart is that not closing the rift as soon as possible will cause damage too deep to fix.-
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MastinSSK Goon
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Derp.
If Kagura wasn't conftown before, they are now.
Mac was a modified rolestopper.
Look up what rolestopping does.
AP claims to have had Kagura targeted, but having received no result--regardless of AP's alignment, I'm inclined to believe he's telling (most of) the truth in that.
Kagura was Mac's target last night.-
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MastinSSK Goon
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(By the way, for those curious overall to as what sparked the overall change in my approach this game. I'd like to say it was all me, but it was very largely GreyICE's feedback that I was thinking of at the time. I was in my car, about to get to driving, when his words entered my mind. And though I knew that I couldn't get nightkilled because I had claimed, I also knew that his advice was good advice to have regardless of that. And that was the thought triggering Xeno, with me essentially going as an instinctive response, "That advice has backfired on you before!" But as I was driving, I kept weighing things. And I thought of the things I talked about. How I've been in a rut for...quite a while. And not feeling like, well, me. I've noted this before, and tried fixing it. But I think I was focusing in the wrong areas before, because they didn't have a large impact on me. But this simple change...has.)-
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MastinSSK Goon
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Realized I could do a reach-out, here.I'm wagoning PV. You still interested in joining?
Difficult to say (that'd require me actually being scum ), but...probably? I mean, probably the main difference is that a scum me likely would take a stance and only change it if it's convenient to do so, whereas a town me isn't sure and both takes time to develop the read and doesn't put a hard stock in it. I've seen you as scum multiple times with me as town (not that you'd know all of them were me), and suspected you correctly of being scum, but I never was absolutely sure about it.Would you call me town as scum mastin I wonder...-
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MastinSSK Goon
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Combination of factors. Partly understanding pie's concern about drowning things out in noise. Partly because I frankly don't feel the need to defend myself. And largely because while I'm obviously hoping to bridge the gap, there's only so much I can do when pie keeps on blowing the damn bridge up.In post 3723, The Fox and the Hound wrote:If anything it's odd that she is not just straight up attempting to rebut you.
Not really sure how it's not obvious. The tone of my posts is different. (It certainly feels different, at least!) How I'm approaching the game is different. My posting towards others is different. It's an entirely new mindset. (Rather, I think it'd be more accurate to say it's a mindset that I had in what I consider to be the peak of my town play, which was...I think in either 2011 or 2012. The year where I had excellent reads, reasoning, and was charismatic, and transparently town. [Rather, my scumgame was bad enough that people not seeing it instantly townread me. ] One year was the peak of my townplay, and the following year my best scumplay. So probably 2012, with 2013 being scumplay and this year being them averaging out.)In post 3724, The Fox and the Hound wrote:You say your approach to the game has changed, but other than you suddenly asserting that you are a town leader and everyone should follow you, I don't really feel like anything actually different is happening?
An element of myself that is now coming back out, slowly. Admittedly, not that many posts where you can see it. But while I am obviously a bit biased (it being me feeling it), I still think that it should be conveyed through the keyboard.-
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MastinSSK Goon
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Spoiler: Mental to-do listClyton/Tammy:Keep us posted on your blazing. I realize there's business right now, but when you have the time, it'd be great to actually have neighbors who are sharing stuff about each other. Like overall thoughts and general impressions and such.
So I can kinda sorta guess at it, Clyton, but mind making it explicit what the understanding you have is?In post 3588, Clyton wrote:Understanding: The understanding is coming in Day 2.
Why did you deem it appropriate to forgo caution for more aggressive recklessness near the end of D1?I can easily forgo my right to caution for a more aggressive, risk-taking approach if the situation is right for me to do so.
If you're able to, I'd like to have some elaboration on this as well.I can tell you that the reasons for my illogical approach can be explained purely within my playstyle should the game continue to be more unfavorable for town.
If you're not pleased with how the role was used, what do you think (if anything) that means for orcinus's alignment?In post 3582, Clyton wrote:(I'm still not pleased with how orc used his role, but what's done is done).
What's your current AP read?In post 3548, Clyton wrote:AP, calm down a bit. You're going everywhere with your content.
What's your current take on Rancid and Kagura's stances? (And alignment, for that matter.) I'm especially interested, because of this:I already discussed RBD and his hypothetical lack of credibility, and Kagura is not in a good spot assumingly as he is getting assaulted from his neighbours because of his late appearance in Day 1 when the wagon was nearing its end.
I need to get better at this whole discussing thing. (There's more I'm sure I should be thinking of, but this is about it that comes to mind.) I'm sure somewhere down the line, there was something to come up in me that you didn't quite get either, Clyton, so me asking all these questions to you means it's only fair you get to do the same for me.Trust: I would take a majority's opinion as trust then one person's opinion. I think it is fair enough to state this because the majority is most likely town anyways.-
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MastinSSK Goon
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I'm totally going to fail at this one, but I have to try. Best I can come up with is reading (not skimming) the whole iso and trying to find things that could still be relevant.
Desp, does this still hold?In post 104, Just Sheep Us wrote:walking dead vibes, specially with gyarados, rancid, stalin, lord business, and titan. the latter two should nip their shit in the bud sooner rather than later.
Come to think about it, I don't think you ever actually gave that reads list.In post 811, Just Sheep Us wrote:i also basically only have townreads still. if i squint really hard i can make up a scumread on some people (orcinus, drake, peregrine) but they wouldn't have any conviction behind them.
...Okay, you did, I guess, but that was a long time ago and reads change. Can I get an updated individual readslist from you? Then a combined one when overlapped with BRO's?
I'm trying to find common reference points.
I'm putting that effort in right here and now. I'm sure there's been some sort of recalibration in your posting, but can you give me an idea of what you've recalibrated on?In post 1181, Just Sheep Us wrote:HOLY SHIT MASTIN, YOU'RE CALLING ME OUT ON A MISTAKE WHEN YOU'RE DOING THE EXACT SAME THING AND NOT TRYING TO RECALIBRATE.
I'D THINK THAT AFTER YOUR SHIT IN AP'S GAME TOWN-YOU WOULD TRY TO, Y'KNOW, NOT SUCK THE NEXT GAME.
Is he still?In post 1226, Just Sheep Us wrote:In all honestly I haven't read a p5 post that I can remember yet. He's also like z-tier priority right now.
Did you ever work out the dissonance, here?In post 1347, Just Sheep Us wrote:conclusion: ap is scum
Alright, so you're scumreading me, but assuming I'm town, do you still think this holds true?In post 1362, Just Sheep Us wrote:the core of the game early on was very much mastin/tammy/f-16 once he moved in. Fox/Hound buddied behind Tammy, and RBD buddied behind mastin. This led me to strongly think that 1, maybe 2 people in that core group are scum. Fox/Hound and RBD make the most sense given how the attacking/defending/chainsawing mapped out.
Most of them have been. But you're correct, it's happened with us both being town before. You willing to deal with the possibility it happened again?In post 1392, Just Sheep Us wrote:I've thought nearly every one of mastin's pushes this game have been bad. I've been positional opposed to her at every juncture. Granted, this has happened with both of us as town before.
My posts were made mostly before Rancid's, so I couldn't have been sheeping them. Do you think I as scum was able to predict their thoughts so perfectly as to essentially sheep-them-before-they-posted?But I don't think town muffin/nati would see the game so nearly identically.
Okay, so I'm not going to ask if an inversion of a scum thought process is still a scum thought process, since it IS sometimes, coming from me. But if you still believe this, can you explain in more detail why you think that this is an inversion and why this specific inversion is coming from scum rather than town?In post 1694, Just Sheep Us wrote:This like an inversion of that thought process (i.e., she's trying to refute the town read without understanding the trajectory on it, and the misunderstanding of why the town read exists is showing)
Who would the scum in the lurker group be?In post 1699, Just Sheep Us wrote:Yeah, there's often 1, maybe 2 scum in the lurker group, but being able to tell scum-lurk from town-lurk is a skill that exists.
Runs the other way, too. Why are you writing this off as being a scum me rather than having been a me from my town games?In post 1708, Just Sheep Us wrote:Why are you writing off mastin's push on you as being from House Party Mini mastin instead of from scum mastin?
What's your opinion on ns in general, my alignment aside?In post 1885, Just Sheep Us wrote:ns's vote on me looks terribad if mastin flips scum.
Did you ever give more extensive thought to AP's trajectory on me?In post 1947, Just Sheep Us wrote:Again, I'm confused as to why you too so long.
Would you listen if I gave an explanation for that initial attack? (Note MY post count.) Obviously I don't believe it anymore, but I can explain that little bit fairly easily.
You expected more from PV. What do you think that says of PV's alignment?In post 2250, Just Sheep Us wrote:
I expect more from you :/In post 2225, PeregrineV wrote:
Cupcake and Yakuri would be the ones I'd most like to lynch. But that's less from a strong scmread and more frm a lack of townread.In post 1855, Rancid Broderick Drake wrote:Who exactly do you want to lynch today?
Do you think that this could be alignment-indicative of AP?In post 2310, Just Sheep Us wrote:AP, your refusal to lynch RBD makes zero fucking sense.
Why DO you think AP didn't work with you?In post 2440, Just Sheep Us wrote:You know what I'm capable of doing when I turn on.
Why the fuck aren't you working with me.
Thoughts on both?In post 2789, Just Sheep Us wrote:We can deal with Clyton later.
pedit: ffery, are you trying to get me to scumread you?
Assuming Rancid and myself town, what do you make of the overlap?In post 2793, Just Sheep Us wrote:It's gonna be me/CF/Foxhound. Maybe p5? [on both Rancid/mastin wagons]
Why do you think AP has been disconnected from you, BRO?In post 3020, Just Sheep Us wrote:AP being strangely disconnected from me haven't helped, either.
Ask yourself if this could be interfering with your AP read.I feel bad trying to lynch people I'm close to.
Desp, if you still have Kagura as town, what do you make of their townread on me? And BRO, if AP's result (and/or my theory on Mac) has changed your read on Kagura to town, same question.In post 3448, Just Sheep Us wrote:Desp is still biasing towards town-Kagura. They've moved to my null-scum pile.
Do you think AP is dumb as town?In post 3513, Just Sheep Us wrote:ap you are being dumb.
Final questions:
What do you make of Rancid's death?
What do you make of Mac's death?-
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MastinSSK Goon
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How so?In post 3736, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:The self-referential walls are tedious and waffly.
What do you think this means for orc's alignment?@orcinus you're too quiet for my taste.
Also, I realize I've posted a lot, so easy to miss, but do you have commentary on my post here to you?
For the record, AP's invocation of MD looks like bullshit. (There are reasons for Red Gyarados to be town and for said townread to be lessened, but while said reasons are very very slightly tied to activity, are basically whole different entities.)-
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MastinSSK Goon
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MastinSSK Goon
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Thus, tied to activity but not directly. ffery's post isn't my reason, but is kinda sorta vaguely along the lines of my own read.In post 3751, Red Gyarados wrote:Mastin, I myself say that activity is an accurate way to read me, that my activity tis game SHOULD be changing reads.-
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MastinSSK Goon
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This doesn't sound like someone trusting the song contest card.In post 3756, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:I've hydra'd with Nati. I have some idea of his strengths and weaknesses in reads. When we disagree, it's not 100% that I'm wrong and he's right. It's a constellation.
No, it really, really doesn't. Not for me, anyway. Out of all the players I have ever been scum with since 2010, there's only been one. One. Player out of all of them. That I have EVER considered my superior, and that's Nacho. Him? Him, I'd let dictate the kill. In every other game? It's always been me. For instance? I controlled the kill to a large extent in Attack on Titan, when BROseidon was my scumbuddy. I fought for control for the scum nightkill in Anything Goes (which has Sven, Tammy, Mina, and Katsuki as scumbuddies!), and ultimately, was the one with the largest influence there. Heck! You mention Thor as someone you fought with? I controlled his scum nightkill in Walking Dead! You can't find a scum game of mine where I'm not the one controlling scum's kill, at least not when I'm alive, since that's just what I DO as scum. I create the path to victory--a path that nightkills are a part of.kinda depends on who comprises who the scum team is IMO.
Even if I'm ultimately not the one in control of the nightkill, I hold such influence over it that I might as well be. There's never a night where I let a kill go through that I don't agree with; even if it's not my primary nightkill, the kill will be a secondary or tertiary target of mine that I wanted dead anyway, just in a different night.
Neither Mac nor Rancid nor Kagura (if my theory is correct) fit this profile. Not this game, anyway.
Then what killed them?I think RBD were town. I don't think they were the scumkill.
Well, yeah, I disagree about the scumreads there on those two. Not a scumhunting god, albeit an elite scumhunter; he wouldn't be perfect. That's one area that I think he wasn't perfect in. (He totally gets a Tales-of-You card if he was, though. In addition to a Xeno-mollie card I now owe.)PV but not CF or BroDesp. Reads you also apparently disagree with RBD about.
I noticed you're not voting anyone. Would you be willing to vote PV?
Well, ask Beli about his other reads. I happen to agree about him on AP, but I'm not sure I'm willing to take that risk today.I think he's disappointed that my read on AP took a turn because he thought gambitgate was prime scumposting.-
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MastinSSK Goon
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No. However, IIn post 3761, AngryPidgeon wrote:
Do you think Im dumb as scum?In post 3747, MastinSSK wrote:Do you think AP is dumb as town?knowthat you're a brilliant enough scum player to fake being dumb-as-town in a way that comes across as being really town.-
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MastinSSK Goon
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Thinly veiled implies there's a veil in place when there's no cloth separating it at all. I DID say taking the mantle of town leader. I think that the townread there is wrong, but I want to understand it and see if it holds validity.In post 3765, AngryPidgeon wrote:Wow. I dont think I've ever read a more thinly veiled attempt at getting someone turned against me.
Not relevant--the bit in question is attempt to work with BROseidon. (Rather, lack thereof.) Bluntly, my take on it and your take on it is irrelevant, no matter how truthful it may be, because I'm asking what HE thinks of it. It's called a reach-out for a reason.What do YOU think of my refusal to lynch RBD, ffs?-
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MastinSSK Goon
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Gets dangerously close to confirmation bias.In post 3766, AngryPidgeon wrote:And like one thing at a time mastin.
I will focus on one thing at a time, and am--I am directing things towards PeregrineV. I am not focusing on him to the exclusion of all other things.
Your (lack of) vote says otherwise.You want PV? Im willing to work with that right now.-
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MastinSSK Goon
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Oh. Your post reminds me.
That's one reason I've felt you're scum.
You're playing far. FAR. More reactively this game than you should be, ESPECIALLY as a cop.
The town AP I know is more proactive and aggressive. That's not been absent for part of the game; it's been absent ALL the game.
I'll put it another way.
Town-AP is generating opinions.
Scum-AP is more concerned about opinions.
And your play this game looks like the latter. Not former.
But I digress. This is not a rock-solid tell. It's a potential alignment indicator but not a strong one. You have scum-games generating opinions and town-games being concerned about opinions, but they're bluntly not the majority.-
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MastinSSK Goon
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The majority of your towngames are proactive.In post 3773, MastinSSK wrote:This is not a rock-solid tell. It's a potential alignment indicator but not a strong one. You have scum-games generating opinions and town-games being concerned about opinions, butthey're bluntly not the majority.
A significant portion of your scumgames are playing more reactive.
But really--know what I'm seeing from you? Putting me down. I'm also seeing waiting for others, and not truly engaging many. Reactive play.
Know what I'd expect? You to be strongly pushing your reads. You to be voting. To be strongly pushing your opinions, vying for town leader position. Trying to take control and lynch scum, and if. IF. Not sure who they are, actively figuring it out. With a lot of inquiries, with a posting storm of productive posting focused on them.
When most of your posting is...focused on you.
If a true scumtell was 80%, this would be something like 65%. Not a strong indicator, but a strong potential indicator.-
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MastinSSK Goon
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Your posting hasn't given that vibe at all. And that's not even what my point even was about. I'm seeing shutting inquiries down reactively, rather than creating them proactively.In post 3778, AngryPidgeon wrote:I've been trying to explain how you are coming off to people who aren't you.
My point exactly. One of the highest post counts. One of the lowest amount of content. On others. On reasoning. On pushing. Like, my posting has been tunneling and my posting has had fluff and my posting has gone in circles...but that's not the entirety of my posting. Ignoring your defense, it pretty much is the entirety of yours. This is an oversimplification; the exact wording isn't there. But it's exactly what I was saying. It's not just now. For the entire game, you've been reacting rather than being proactive. And seem to have a much larger concern for how you are perceived than I'd expect from a town-you.Lets see, what have I been doing this game? Oh ya I have been tunneling the crap out of BORK and F16 yet Bork is on pretty much everyone's obvtown list and my F16 push went basically nowhere despite me howling about how hilariously scum he is all D1.-
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MastinSSK Goon
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I did say that I wasn't explaining things as best I can. The two augment, not contradict, one another.In post 3780, AngryPidgeon wrote: you literally just accused me of being reactive when Ive wasted all my energy D1 pushing Kagura (and being met with this bullshit) and F16 (and being met with general apathy).
Arguing != working with. Working with = working with. Involving mutual levels of play, essentially. (The best words to describe it aren't there.) Another way of saying it, is that, well. Your posting was...passive aggressive? Best I can think of to describe it. I'll fully admit I wasn't working with others. But I also saw you not working with me. With. Well. With shit like this, to be honest.And the hypocrisy on top of that is I spent a LOT of my effort arguing with you on D1 with you telling me "But AP you aren't working with me" despite you tunneling the crap out of me.
(And this also makes no sense, given the multitude of solid reasons presented, which you admitted held merit with an "I-guess-town" read.)In post 3781, AngryPidgeon wrote:If you want to see me back in this game spiritually 100%, you'd maybe actually give 2-shits when I explain why I think your Nacho read is shitty instead of trying to pin a case on me for it that doesnt even make sense.
The thing about it is that in past town games of yours, you've always overcomed those things. Me as scum, by overcoming me. Me as town, by working with the town in spite of me hindering progress. This is a problem that I traditionally have associated with you being scum--because I bog the game down for you, having correctly eyed you suspiciously. You overcome it as scum more often than not, and did so this game. But again, this mindset I'm not seeing as being from town.Just so many things are bogging this game down, and on my end most of them are from you.
I fully realize that my posting right now is probably not the most coherent. I need to gather those thoughts up and see if I can figure out a way to say it as clearly as I can. The best way I have of describing it right now is that, well...you're focusing on all the areas that I'd expect as scum and none of the areas I'd expect as town. More than any other words, those seem the most accurate.-
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(Which means I'll probably stop talking. If talking is productive, I will continue it. I feel like coherent talking about AP would be productive. But I also feel like I'm losing that coherency, and that incoherent talking about AP is just more noise not needed.In post 3782, MastinSSK wrote:I fully realize that my posting right now is probably not the most coherent.
Honestly, I think what I need is a nap. In part thanks to working on this game, I'm running on whatever the math is for going to bed at 2:30 and getting up at 6, hours wise. This game's something I try to squeeze in time for during the morning, obsess over during the afternoon, and is among the last things I do at night. I meant it when I said I have an unhealthily large devotion to it.)-
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I lied. Wrap-up post on AP.
Could be said: his attacks feel half-hearted, with his defense being a focus, whereas a town-him I'd expect to have a half-hearted defense, with the attacks being the focus.
To keep this post from being AP-centric, though, general note that while I probably need to shut up about AP (since I'm not sure I'm conveying my point any more clearly with the extra posts) until I can make that talk productive again, I'm still looking to talk with others, on anything and everything. (Including their takes on AP and if they have questions about my read there.)-
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In post 3785, CarbonFiber wrote:Mastin, I appreciate yousayingthat you are reaching out to me but you are not actually doing it. You are still pushing PV who is a pretty strong townread of mine. If you do happen to be town, I'd prefer you work with me to help lynch AngryPidgeon.
VOTE: AngryPidgeon.In post 3786, CarbonFiber wrote:And quit spamming the thread, both of you. The past couple of pages have no new content. Just pointless arguing between the two of you while you call AP scum but put him for tomorrow and AP calls you bad town basically.
You were saying?
(Kinda addresses both posts, but will give a more detailed answer in a bit. Basically, there's multiple aspects of reaching out, and the pages were most certainly productive with content in them.)-
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As my last post indicated, I'm trying, but am not the best at it. I reached out to you about your read on me as a start, and I'm reaching out to you about my reads--things that are leader-centric reachouts mainly, when you're not looking for that, you're looking for that respect. And I do value your opinion on things. So I fully do intend to read your PV case in more detail, and analyze it.In post 3785, CarbonFiber wrote:Mastin, I appreciate yousayingthat you are reaching out to me but you are not actually doing it.
But I can tell you right here and now. From having skimmed it before, while it looked possible, I didn't particularly feel it resonate with me. And though it's interesting. Though it's something to consider. After reading it, I didn't feel my opinion of PV change at all. And my reasoning for PV hasn't really changed that much, I admit. I detailed this in my Clyton exchange if you read that, but basically...I don't see a scumteam without him. He's in the POE candidates. His play hasn't matched my memory of a town-PV. But mostly, I really. Really. REALLY. Want to trust Rancid's read, there. (I also think it was a Mac read.) Because as much as I want to trust living town, F-16, I trust dead-town a lot more in general.
Got reads on 'em?In post 3786, CarbonFiber wrote:I want to hear more from DV, Kagura, Orc, and Titan especially.
...Okay. I don't really have to ask about Titan. And I know that the reason you're asking is basically their lack of posting much so far today, but I'm wondering if it's townread-I-want-more-of, scumread-I-want-pursued, or dunno-need-to-figure-out for them.
(Btw, I do agree on getting more from them. DV's a null-read in general, but by POE I'm strongly considering scum. Orc's a scumread. Kagura is a townread not only off of play, but the multitude of factors vaguely pointing to them being town.)
Fairly certain I did. They're in the list of not-god-but-good for Rancid. Rancid ultimately ended up kinda-townreading F-16 anyway, and I think post-meltdown DesBRO was a townread of theirs, but even if either of these weren't true, they are for me.In post 3789, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:Unless I missed it, which is possible, you didn't respond to this point.
There are a lot of Rancid reads I agree with, and not a lot I disagree with--and those I disagree with aren't clear reads near the end of the day. I guess I could full-iso Rancid again to double-check, but I think if you looked at his reads reverse-chronologically, you'd find it most certainly not hypocritical. (Okay. So there is one read for which my current thinking goes against Rancid's, and that's townreading you when he might have scumread you. But that's something which I can't be sure of.)-
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And now you know how I felt about F-16 and to some extent the other two members of the Terrible Trio. (Name's not an insult, btw. It could be one if the terrible-trio defends lotsa scum and pushes mislynches, which would make them a terrible trio of town players to the town. But it could also be a compliment if the terrible-trio defends lotsa town and pushes scum, which would make them a trio of town players terrible to the scum. It's a bit inaccurate a name, though, since I feel neither is the case and that they're in the middle overall, with good points and pushes and bad points and pushes. But it has alliteration, which makes it sound cool. )In post 3792, Titan wrote:I hope they do start being transparent in thread because that would really help. Nacho does concern me very much and I'm not really seeing any reason for Bork being uber town. I know that he's someone who's pretty transparent, but I'm not seeing it at all. If he's saving up all his cool town posts for the neighborhood, he should start bringing them in thread too. I just feel like he's here, and again if it weren't for nacho being his other head, and that being a constant presence and concern for me, I wouldn't even remember Bork was playing.
Anything Goes was that game for me.In post 3793, Titan wrote:It's not unheard of that someone decides they're going to really try to put forth the effort and has the scum game of their lives even without practice.
I trust the flip (I seem to recall something akin to "no lying, but lol @ setup spec"), but there's a twinge of paranoia that Cabd game = starts town, dies, and comes back as scum. (Which, while misleading, is not a lie.) I don't know what Replicants are, but the name kinda implies, well, a replication of someone, which dieing-then-coming-back would allow. If Cabd answered THAT, I'd love to know.In post 3794, Titan wrote:I'm pretty sure that's one of the questions I asked upon seeing the flip, so I *think* we can trust those results.
By the way, while I realize this vote is set up to be a reaction to F-16, and to some extent it is, I should clarify that it is something that I was already considering. The main reasons I have for not wanting AP dead are (1) the chance his role is legitimately town, and (2) AP being AP. Both of which aren't exactly strong, 'specially given their handling. (In particular, AP this game, not the AP-town that I'd defend to the death.) And I'm considering the reasons for wanting PV dead, and really the main one I have is just what I said, sheeping Rancid. Whereas with AP, I have a lot of me in there. F-16's posting just served as the catalyst to set it in motion.
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Btw, AP, BROseidon, and DV should all be posting soon, so have raised eyebrows if they don't within the next hour or two.
Ah, good. Ignore my point, then.In post 3799, Titan wrote:Pedit: mastin I'm pretty sure my question to cabd was if lb could come back as scum, and I'm pretty sure the answer was no or something along those lines, but still in bed, still not wanting to get up, will check tomorrow.
Waitwat, you get access to the previous QT?!?In post 3800, Titan wrote:Oh haha I'm jus now reading the tales of the abyss neighborhood, I didn't read that before.
*grumble, grumble, Iwantinnocenceneighborizedbutf16won'tbotherwastingitonme, grumble*.-
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Also expecting ffery/notscience posting soon, btw.
Iso me; the reasons are at the literal top of the third page. (Actually, the second half of the reasons.) Because Rancid is ZMUFFINMAN and NATIRASHA. (Especially zMuffinman.) Maybe I'm biased by his ability to read me, but I hold him in high regards as a scumhunter in general. All it takes is one scum player feeling the same.In post 3804, Just Sheep Us wrote:Why would you think that faction scum would have killed RBD, or that Mac wouldn't have hit the BG?
Additionally, janitor, which while not definitive in a Cabd game, is still probably scum's doing, ESPECIALLY given how they emphasized the need for players to sheep their townread on me after they flipped town, and how players attacked me immediately into D2. Mac's a bit tougher to pin down. My leading theory is that Mac targeted Kagura. I also haven't eliminated Mac having targeted Rancid yet somehow both dieing anyway. It could also be that Mac successfully protected a vig target, rather than a scum target. Or Mac coulda been flat-out nightkilled by scum. There's too many possibilities with no way of determining their probability.
But assuming a scum nightkill on one of Mac/Kagura/Rancid (potentially two; a double-kill is not unheard of), no matter how you slice it, that'd mean scum killing someone defending me, which is against my MO as scum.-
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Well, yeah, I suppose, if you disagreed on a lot I could help get you agreeing, but I meant common reference points between you and me.In post 3806, Just Sheep Us wrote:Common reference points b/w me and him? Because Desp and I are fairly in agreement at this point (we had a dissonant read last night that resolved itself, which really just leaves AP as the only read where we're substantially off one another.
Soyeah. I don't have a neighborhood/QT that allows me to see your reads, and they haven't been shared so far today. While reasoning is preferred, it's optional; I just want to know where you're standing overall right now.-
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That would be because if he's scum, the claim is likely to be 90% true. I mean, I guess AP could be pulling it all out of his ass, but Cabd gives scum roles or fakeclaims-of-roles that allow for this kind of thing. Explicitly, this is not a game to be read on roles, but rather, on play--and to me, AP's play (though it can come from town) doesn't look like it is.In post 3812, CarbonFiber wrote:I think his claim does look plausible and if it is a fake-claim, it is pretty good one.
It's probably somewhere in page two of my iso, but basically, the early effort and aggressiveness felt "off" to me. Best described as, for lack of a better term, gut. As I said, the scumread there is mainly off of POE combined with a fair dash of sheeping Rancid.What about PV didn't feel like town-PV to you?
And I'm playing under the assurance that Rancid isn't scum, because their play makes perfect sense coming from them if you understand how their minds operate as town (which I kinda do), it is ridiculously town if you read them by their tone, past accuracy in having read them, and the circumstances of their demise.And I am playing under the assumption that Rancid is scum because their play makes much more sense that way.
Thing is, if there's a vig, I'm 90% sure I know who they are. I'd prefer not to elaborate.In post 3813, CarbonFiber wrote:Also, if a vig killed Rancid and know their affiliation, it might not be a bad idea to speak up.
By the way, DesBRO, there was more in post 3747 that I'd like you to answer.-
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Well, raised eyebrows for everyone listed, but while for them it'd be brows, for you it'd be brows. (Best way to describe it.)In post 3817, Just Sheep Us wrote:
Baroo?In post 3801, MastinSSK wrote:Btw, AP, BROseidon, and DV should all be posting soon, so have raised eyebrows if they don't within the next hour or two.
This is kinda self-evident? I mean, it's basically what I've been saying explicitly for the last 24 or so hours, and even when I was in snark-mode was being implicitly said.In post 3818, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:I think the huge divergence in RBD reads indicates two very different fragments of town in this game, with two strongly divergent ideas about what is going on.
Actually, my first move is to beg you to show me why Fox/Hound is town. I'd love to bump them out of that damn nullzone, so if you can present some damn good reasons for them being town, I'd be heavily inclined to listen and, well, sheep you.In post 3822, Just Sheep Us wrote:me:
Town
2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
9 AngryPidgeon 9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling)
15 PeregrineV
Null-town
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
4 orcinus_theoriginal
Null-scum
1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
11 Lord Business
16 Clyton
Lean scum
8 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli)
Scum
6 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman and natirasha)
7 MastinSSK (Mastin2, MafiaSSK)
Desp had AP and Kagura swapped relative to this. I've also moved Kagura up a few tiers today because reasons.
The second move is to ask for you to address the bits in my post about AP, things that quite frankly me-in-your-shoes would have pinged about him. And to ask that if you're townreading him in spite (or because of) the pings, as to why.
...The third move is to ask why PV's so high up. But not why-not-in-scum, so much as why-so-strongly-town.
And then the fourth is to ask for reasons on Red Gyarados and orcinus, since both are figures of extreme interest for me right now.
And the fifth is to ask about the emptiness in your scum list with Kagura moving up and Lord Business having flipped town.
And the sixth is to ask about what you think Rancid's alignment is because of the janitored flip.
So PV's about middle-of-the-list.-
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Well, no, but I do now, so 'kk. Will look forward to it.In post 3824, Just Sheep Us wrote:Remember that time I said I was going to get to it later?
And thank god, at least we have a partial overlap. Admittedly, with the order inverted. Orc at the top, Stalin at the bottom, Clyton in the middle, with a side of Gyarados. (Admittedly, where they fall is...really, really fluctuating.)-
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For the record, ffery.In post 3833, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:That's usually how it goes because most of the time it takes a body of work to figure out what wincon is driving my mindset and behaviors.
This game has given me plenty of opportunity to lay down a body of work.
You, uh.
Kinda haven't.
Most of your posting has been behind-the-shadows. Not in public, but analyzed behind a supposed closed door of yours.
I'm basically feeling the need to have a revisit to my scum list atm, and bluntly you're among those that could fall in.
I'm sure there are aspects within your posting that could be construed as obvtown, but overall, your posting...isn't.-
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(One of the massive pains in the ass is that nobody here is going to have the full picture. Rancid won't have. Mac won't have. Lord Business won't have. I certainly don't have it. Nor do I think any of the players I consider town have it. But I'm putting a lot of serious effort into trying and figuring out who's right where and wrong, where. Obviously, it's easier in some areas than others. I know Rancid was town, Janitor be damned. I know myself to be town, suspicion on me be damned. I know Titan's town, I know DesBRO's town, I'm gambling on F-16 being town and Kagura being town. So those, not so hard. The hardness comes in figuring out the rest, and I'm trying to piece it all together, without much success right now.)-
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I'm reaching out to everyone.In post 3837, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:You were reaching out and trying to work with me earlier.
No, you have been at the top of mine. But while you've briefly left it, you've been consistently returning to "the six". You're still not a strong scumread--if I was, I might be voting you. It's just that my townread on you has atrophied, for a multitude of reasons. Lack of obvtownness. Slight concern about overall approach to the game. Rancid's dieing vote. Me not being crazy, with others (and not AP-others, others-who're-probably/definitely-town-others) seeing it too. Feeling different from your normal town self. Some of my scumspects lower on the list having reasonable doubt about them being scum. As just those off the top of my head.And with Bro's reads list suddenly I'm at the bottom.
Because I'm scatterbrained and the read change only got posted when attention was drawn to you and that reminded me, "Oh, yeah! About them."Now, tell me how you've been rethinking all day and only just got around to posting this read change.-
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There is no turnaround. Run an iso of me on Stalin (you). You leave the pool at points. You return at later points. My read on you has been fluctuating. It still is. You're not a strong scumread. You're just not currently a townread. There's been a concern about you. There has been all day. Because this read on you isn't exactly new to today, either.In post 3840, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:That turnaround reeks and if you're town you've killed any chance whatsoever of us working together short of mod-confirmation you're town.
You've been nulltown. The reach-outs to you are for two purposes. (1) To work with your reads if you are town, (2) and if so, to figure that fact about you out for sure. Because while I've vaguely leaned that direction for the majority of the game...I've never been sure about it. I'm not discarding your feedback. But I am pointing out how I feel, and one of those feelings is that, well, quite frankly, you've not been giving clear feedback.
I can't recall so much as a single readslist. In 150 pages of the game. I don't remember seeing a single ffery game where you didn't have one, yet I can't remember seeing a proper one from you. Just vague hints. Promises of it to come, and general leans.-
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This train of thought, for instance, really, REALLY doesn't make any sense to me.In post 3848, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:I put my vote on Mastin and then Nati directly appealed to me. It made no sense to me to push against their wagon by pushing onto a wagon they opposed that strongly.
I'll have to take a look at this, but I can buy that, 'specially if ffery's actually scum.In post 3845, Titan wrote:What I liked about Orci's use of the cage fight yesterday was that when he came in he originally said he was considering putting me and nacho/Bork against each other. I said that would be ironic, that I thought I'd get lynched in that case and that I'd claim in case of silliness. He told me not to. Idk I liked the tone of that exchange.-
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I suppose. But still--I remember them being a prominent, dominant aspect of ffery's play as town.In post 3850, Titan wrote:I'm pretty sure I remember a reads list. I think I remember two of them. One before cage fight and one during.
Clearly conveying thoughts on all the players. (Which I don't really see.) And basically having a readslist summarizing that. That's been almost entirely absent from the game for the most part. And this is just from memory, so of course I could be misremembering, but if this holds any validity, then it is very, VERY largely concerning.
See above. Because honestly, I don't play with you enough to really have much expectations of what you would do. If you do or don't post readslists extremely often as town, I wouldn't know.I haven't made a reads list. Why doesn't that bother you?
...I DO have expectations for ffery.
Again, this disregard for the song contest card is quite alarming.In post 3851, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:There's nothingtowork with besides voting Mastin atm. Which we may do.
As is the lack of vote on AP.We still have concerns about AP, though.
Why is nobody commenting on my Mac-rolestopped/BGed-Kagura theory?Do you think he was roleblocked?-
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MastinSSK Goon
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Okay. So given that I want to be the town leader, and doing something impulsive is really bad for that.
Given that I'm not really sure of this.
Given a whole boatload of factors.
This is probably aReally Bad IdeaTM.
But I kinda feel like placing it out there, at least for the moment.
VOTE: Breakfast with Stalin.-
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Except I'm actually really not, for the most part. You keep saying this, but run an iso of Rancid's latest iso. I know I did it earlier, and when I did it, I kinda remember them no longer scumreading F-16 or DesBRO so much as...shutting the two out as being lost causes for the town. Of course I could be remembering wrong, but that's what I remember.In post 3859, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:It's ok for you to put your own reads ahead of theirs.
And let's say that I am wrong. That they did in fact scumread both slots. I also said that I am not blindly following them as scumhunting gods--I am trusting them to be competent players, good, who had most (but not all) of the picture. And the rest of the picture, that they didn't have, I'm trying to figure out, for myself and using others.
There's a difference between thinking for yourself and entirely discarding the dead player. It's not the action, it's how and why the action was done (circumstances) that define it. If I was sure you were scum, I'd be pushing you. I'm voting you, sure, yeah, but I'm not pushing you at the moment, because I'm not. Because I'm not sure of my reasoning, of my logic. Because while there's a picture, I am not entirely convinced of it.but heaven forbid I think for myself.
But the picture is there, and this attitude of yours is a large part of it. In this case, I invoke the word with no fear of it: I can't follow the trajectory of your posting. Normally, there is a connection between A and B and C in you; I'm not seeing it in this game. In this case, Rancid's read on me would be an A. Your unclear take on his alignment (itself a concern) would be B. Your approach to me would be C. When you're town, I can generally connect the dots. Here, I'm not. Not even remotely.-
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Well, yeah. Quite explicitly. But I felt like I had to throw it out there, anyway. It felt like something that needed to be said.In post 3861, Titan wrote:Pedit: that feels like a bad vote
It probably won't stay there longer than a day or two at most, but I kinda really want to leave it out there for a while. Because in spite of being what feels like a really bad idea, it felt good to make in spite of that.-
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Oh. Another concern about ffery I should bring up.
Is heavily implying suspicion on me. Which is sort-of supported with some in-thread reasons. But...In post 3862, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:It is. He's trying to ride what he thinks is a momentum change. It won't go far.
-Again, why no vote?
-Where did her read change from nulltown?
-This sounds an awful lot like something overly-defensive and quite frankly a bit omgusy from her.
Again, nothing absolutely concrete, here. But there's a reason I'm so concerned about her being scum.-
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(Since it's been a few pages since I brought it up, I might as well make a "Sure, why not?" callout on a scumteam and wild-mass-guess at it being {Stalin, AP, PV} with one of Clyton or Fox/Hound as the last*. Butyeah, put no stock into this, please. It's mainly off of their interactions and reading them and POE, but nothing truly logical.)
*Very outside chance of being either orc or Gyarados, with Gyarados as the more likely of these very-unlikely alternatives in this scumteam WMG.-
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(Note that the Clyton or Fox/Hound distinction relies on who I'd be sheeping. Rancid, Fox/Hound. DesBRO and co? Clyton. If ignoring others and going purely off of myself, I'd trust my original instincts, seeing the town in Clyton and scum in Fox/Hound. Butyeah. Again. Silly callout is silly, and essentially just for potential bragging rights of "holy shit I was actually right" if it somehow ended up being accurate. )-
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Oh. I'm entering into the same ffery spam I did about AP. But basically--
That thing I said about her being over-defensive would be best stated as her being more emotional than I would expect. Because I've never seen (at least that I can recall) ffery losing her cool. In every game I can recall, she's been the rational head of whatever hydra she was in, unless said event was of a much deeper personal level than it should be. (In which case she'd still have a fair chance of having been more rational. ) But here, her posting sounds like it has that, well...lack of control. Which I can't really recall seeing from a town-her.
I'm sure it exists. It'd surprise me if this was actually something of a tell for her. I've probably seen in some random hydra game or games of hers things that go against what I said, here. But it's still a large concern of mine anyway, since it IS what I feel. That this, well, burst of feelings isn't characteristic of her being town.-
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*points to current avatar on mastin2*. Yes, as scum, I'm one of the cheekiest scumbags ever. Yes, I have a love of trolling as either alignment. (It's surprisingly addictive.) But there's no way you can possibly read that vote as being either.In post 3875, AngryPidgeon wrote:Im wondering if Mastin is the cheekiest scum player and just trolling around the thread for fun.-
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Right. And my opinion couldn't have changed in over half the games' worth of posts. (Seriously, how the fuck did you pull that up? That's literally half-way back in the fucking game. I certainly didn't even remember having made that accusation about you.)In post 3878, AngryPidgeon wrote:You have actually got to be kidding me. I call BWS out yesterday on being conservative with their vote and I get a whiteknight on them: "AP IS TRYING TO GET THEM OT MAKE A RASH VOTE" and now they are scummy for being conservative with their vote? Wow.
That's the least of the problems with this quote sniping, though. I am not confident in Stalin being scum. I am not absolutely sure you are scum. Least of all am I explicitly tying your alignments together, even though I've seen interactions that make it possible you're both scum. (The reads are a good 95% separated from one another.) I'm pointing out concerns I have with her now. Among them was a lack of vote, yes. But while you also called out her lack of vote, tone is a biggie.
I asked about her lack of vote, pointing out my concern about them.
Your tone was derisive of her.
It's not the action, it's how and why the action was done. Circumstances, context, everything.-
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Hey, guys. Will read the thread after posting, but first? Bear with me for a bit. You're about to get a dosage of Mastin logic, but I think it might actually be Mac's logic using Cabdlogic, too.
Mac's role was a MODIFIED rolestop-bodyguard. A bodyguard dies when protecting, and a rolestopper stops all actions on a player like the JK variant alien, but allows the target to still act. This normally INCLUDES nightkills, contrary to what AP says, because again, that's how the role is defined.
Bodyguard is redundant with rolestop, normally.
Thus, the modified.
So I have a theory.
Mac's ability was to stop any scum ability on a given player. If scum killed Mac's target, Mac would die, like a bodyguard. If scum targeted Mac's target with some other ability (let's say something like rolecop or sane cop [Hey, Cabd game; it could happen]), I'm theorizing that Mac would ROLESTOP that ability...but still die.
This sounds like a frighteningly-plausible role coming from Cabd, and makes total sense to me as being a possibility. I realize there's some slight logical leaps involved, but take that a little bit further, and you get my theory:
Mac used his ability on Kagura. A scum power targeted Kagura. Mac rolestopped it, at the cost of his own life.
In the mean time, scum jan-killed Rancid. And the vig either didn't/couldn't/chose not to kill, or also killed Rancid.
Yeah, I realize it might seem like there are a LOT of assumptions in here, and it's a little bit convoluted. But in my twisted mind, it makes perfect sense.
VOTE: AngryPidgeon.-
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I grew up. That's what happened. My posting was always town. Always has been this game. But it was masked behind emotions. (For the record, emotions are in fact a bit of a towntell, but only marginally so. Because a scum me is more calculated and less concerned.)In post 3890, The Fox and the Hound wrote:So as I'm reading through I start questioning my mastin-read because she's actually sounding pretty town and not making me feel all tingly inside like she was before, but then there's the problem of how did this change happen?
No offense meant to anyone, but remember Vi's post in MD theory about there being basically no distinction between the children playing to us playing? Yes, well...it kinda...well, it's kinda true. Getting overly-emotionally-attached to things has dragged the entire game down, quite a lot. I was guilty of it. Everyone this game has been, and anyone who claims they haven't been is quite frankly deluding themselves, because you can just tell, with the way everyone has interacted with each other. Perhaps some players were less guilty than others, but no player has been not-guilty-at-all.
And basically the first step to maturity is realizing that there is a problem in having been childish. So I acknowledged it. And then? Then, I went about, and have been going about, fixing it. Because while I might not be the best person to be an adult, SOMEONE needs to be that adult, and that player might as well be me. Because the most insane players are the ones insisting they're sane, and the most sane player in the game is the player admitting she's insane.
...Apparently not, since a fair amount of my concerns are things that DesBRO ironically brought up after I did.In post 3900, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:I'm not going to wall at her but some of her statements about my town game are simply false and you would know that as well as anyone.
I read that game, ffery. I remember you being a whole heck of a lot more calm in there. The most I remember is slight agitation at a player or two. Granted, my memory of the game is about as old as the game itself, but still, point remains.My ongoing reaction to being scumread in death's diner was not in the least calm.
For someone accusing me of being hypocritical...I'm kinda fighting that tendency to dismiss players who misread me now because I know you usually have good reads. You and pie both thinking Mastin is scum meant that I came into day 2 willing to vote her.
...This sure is a load of hypocrisy. You're saying you're fighting the tendency to dismiss players misreading you, who normally have good reads...yet you're doing exactly that by dismissing me, when I've done reach-outs to you. I've listed concerns about you. They weren't points in a case against you. They were concerns. And I reached out about it. I said "this is what I'm seeing". I said that that's what I was worried about. I reached out to you, in more ways than one, your reads, your reasoning, and to address my concerns.
You've dismissed all of that in favor of... "Mastin is scum, making blatantly wrong points about me in an attempt to mislynch me"?
I'm trying to understand you, ffery. I'm trying to figure you out. But for someone claiming to be transparent...you're being a fucking oblique as possible.-
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That depends; I need to figure out the context of something first, though I'm not sure if I do if I should elaborate on it.In post 3909, PeregrineV wrote:Kagura is either an Asectic or something similar.
I did say it was Mastinlogic, though. What did you think Mastinlogic entailed?-
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(In fact, I was reading it fairly intimately as the game progressed, though because of other factors, my memory of it isn't exactly the most objective.)In post 3910, MastinSSK wrote:I read that game, ffery. I remember you being a whole heck of a lot more calm in there. The most I remember is slight agitation at a player or two. Granted, my memory of the game is about as old as the game itself, but still, point remains.-
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Assume Rancid and myself town. Why would you die?In post 3915, Yggdra Union wrote:3 Yggdra Union (giffy and pieguyn) - Pie was so happy that we didn't die n1 because we were gonna be angry if that happened.
Well,I'm just gonna call this slot town. I can do that. Right? I mean, I didn't read majority of their posts, but I'm still allowed to do that, right?yeah, you can, but it's a bad idea when their alignment is a subject of intense debate.
For Fox/Hound, which ones?------Leaning Town--------------------------------
2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV) -because my neighbor said soI think his reachout post were pretty town
12 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado) - BRO is town.
For DesBRO--why only leaning town, then, and not in your town pile?
4 orcinus_theoriginal - I didn't really read his post. I've been planning to do some stuff on him but I got lazy. For now, he can stay here for the role.
If you want to townread orc, have it be on how he USED the role and his posting and interactions, but never for the role itself. (Orc's null to me right now. Still sorting him.)-
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MastinSSK Goon
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So I realized a couple of things recently.
-Fox/Hound asked what sparked the change in my attitude. Now, I thought it was because of the thoughts I had, but while all of what I said was true, I think what made it stick, what made it possible, was that between meds and therapy, my mental health is slightly improving.
-Really random, but I know why AP's casting a suspicious eye on me but not voting me. It's really simple. To get complete, total, absolute revenge, a set of criteria must be met:- I must be a BP. (Check.)
- I must be obvtown. (Check.)
- I must have good (perhaps perfect) reads. (...Check? I'm working on it.)
- I must have players supporting me be nightkilled. (Check.)
- I must have players that have had heated debates against me live. (Check.)
- I must be the top poster or among them. (Check.)
- I must have had a screaming, shouting match. (Check.)
- I must be a voice of reason in spite of the above. (Check.)
- I must have been aggressive. (Check.)
- I must have also held arrogance that I was not getting lynched, but be bewildered and slightly concerned at it happening. (Check and sorta-check, but good enough.)
- It must be D3. (Thus, the lack of push from him today.)
- Bonus points if he enters a 1v1 with me, especially citing his role and him getting 'roleblocked' N1.
(First realization serious. Second one only semi-so.)
/content to come in a bit.-
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MastinSSK Goon
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This sounds really, really legitimate by tone, but I'm really, really concerned about the mindset, here; it doesn't read as town. (No, not the vote. That's anti-town, yeah, but can come from town.) I wish I could pin down exactly what here feels 'off'; I had a brief flash in my head that said, "this aspect was scum thinking", but by the time I hit the quote button, the reason for the thought was gone. :/ I dunno, best guess on what pinged me would be something like having-cake-and-eating-it-too.In post 3920, DeasVail wrote:Sheep, I've seen ffery be more transparent than this as well, but I've incorrectly scumread her at least once for similar reasons, and so I don't think it's a good reason to scumread her, especially when they've been pretty town otherwise imo (a few Beli posts in particular from memory).
Ok, I've decided.
Vote: MastinSSK
As always Ceph is free to change it, but I think this is ok. The only other person I could see myself being willing to lynch right now is Cupcake.
...Actually, I think I found it. It's going for an 'okay' vote rather than a vote-on-scum.
In post 3922, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:I can squint and make out a cupcake/mastinssk team, maybe. I dunno.
Why not die when Rancid and myself are both town?In post 3923, Yggdra Union wrote:1. Why not?
...Do I need to add periods to slow down that sentence so that the important bits are emphasized?
I was looking for specifics. Not which head, but things about them in general that look town and maybe specific posts to highlight that behavior.2. Um both?
1: Why isn't DesBRO considered nigh-confirmed town, 2: and why is ffery an honorary spot on there?Also, the town pile are for nigh-confirmed/confirmed town list. Fery gets to stay there as an honorary spot.
If anything, I'd think it should be vice-versa; while nothing CONFIRMS DesBRO, they should be honorary conftown anyway, whereas if you're townreading ffery (I'm not), it'd be in the probably town section. I'm not seeing the logic, here.
I'm willing to gamble on Yggdra, Titan, and DespBRO, yes. But PV I simply am not sure about.In post 3924, CarbonFiber wrote:Here's where I am at: I'd still bet the farm on Yggrdra, Titan, and JSU. I took a look at Dark Age of the Law Mafia to see PV's scum-posting and it looks very different. In particular, his posting doesn't resonate to me the way it does here which makes me more certain about his affiliation. I am similarly confident about the Fox and the Hound every time DV posts. RedGyarados still feels town although I am not sure if I agree with Ffery's depiction of NotScience meta but then again, we look at it in very different ways. Cupcake is still a pretty strong town read. I have weaker townleans on Kagura, Orc, and Breakfast, null on Clyton. The game still leads right back to MastinSSK and AngryPidgeon. Happy to see Mastin getting lynched today. I want to hear if anyone has any other thoughts before moving forward.
You could be correct that he could be town, but I'm really doubting that, especially since the extent of my townlist (which he is outside) puts him heavily in the POE territory. And while DV's posting does have that town tone, and I'm strongly considering Fox/Hound being town (still null overall), there are some serious concerns about their overall mindset. Who they're pushing, and more importantly the WHY for the push.
And though your townread on Kagura is justified, and you're probably right about one of orc/Stalin being town, and Clyton's a null read of mine...
...Your scumlist is still too small. Let's assume for a fraction of a second that Rancid was scum. That'd still leave three scum left. Let's also assume for a fraction of a second that Rancid/Mastin vs. AP was "scum theater". (No.) You think that a scumteam of Rancid, Mastin, AP, and Clyton would be possible?
Furthermore, given that theoretical scumteam:
You think that we (possessing daytalk, no less) decide to bus the shit out of one another, when Rancid and AP both have past history of reading me correctly, and vice-versa, meaning that if we mutually townread each other, it would be a nigh-unstoppable 3-player bloc? And also interact with Clyton the way we have, basically 'pinning' him as a reserve candidate?
It doesn't add up. My plans as scum might be masterful, they might be beautifully crafted, they might and often do span the entire course of the game...
...But if there's one thing about my plans that is consistent is that as scum, they are also gorgeouslysimple. The more convoluted, contrived plans violate every piece of essence-de-scuMastin. Because complicated plans? Are complicated, and in a game BUILT on randomness and unexpectedness...they are near-guaranteed to fail. And while it's true that my backup plans have backup plans...they all stem from the same basic, simple, easily-implemented (and most importantly, easily-adjusted) path that I build from my mind.
How do you think things went in the mafia QT? "Oh, hey, Rancid, we're scum together. Let's buddy one another and attack Titan and F-16. They'll never expect scum to go so hard against them so soon. Oh, and Clyton and Hawk? No offense, but if you don't bring your A-game, I'm going to bus your asses.
*AP replaces in*
...Awesomesauce. Hey, AP, we should totally crossbus each other. Scum theater would make the game far more confusing for everyone involved, and whoever won would end up looking better as a result of that. Unfortunately, you'll probably lose, since Rancid and I kinda have this thing together, and, well, two against one. But it'll look impressive all the same!"
"Umm...that's probably a bad idea."
*I blatantly ignore AP saying it's a bad idea*
"MASTIN, STOP."
*I don't*
"Okay, FINE. We'll do it your way. Just don't expect me to let up."
"Trust me, this will work!"
"Yeah, but you're discarding me. We could always force a mislynch in the last minute."
"True, true. Nobody would suspect we're scum distancing, not after that intense fight we just had, only to switch at the last minute onto town. But who, and how?" (There's basically no way for you to think we're both scum and not think we-as-scum would be well aware people would notice.)
"How 'bout PV?"
"Sure, but I don't think I can lead into it."
"I can!"
Like. I'm trying to make that dialog as realistic as I can. To be as close to what a scum us would do in this hypothetical scenario, and, well...it just doesn't fit. In a different scumteam, maybe something similar to this I could say. But the guiding factor of my scumplay is that it is contextually-dependent, on the circumstances. And given an AP-me scumteam, I NEVER would discard it, especially not for some weak-ass wifomy thing that all it'd take is "lol, scum theater" to blow apart.
...Oh, and speaking of plans. That's something that is also a founding fundamental aspect of my scum play. I have a plan. I ALWAYS have a plan as scum. And if I get a chance to execute my plan, it never fails. Perhaps it falls short of working; I didn't win Attack on Titan in spite of my plan. But my plan got us DAMN close, because I laid out a clear path to victory, which got us to 4p mylo easily enough. My plan relied on us buddying each other. My plan relied on scum surviving. My plan relied on us living, but having JUST enough distance, JUST enough of a gap between us, that IF we were to fall, that we'd have a chance. My lynch was sad, but ultimately, I had specifically avoided giving the town information. I played sub-par as scum to avoid giving away my plan. (Also kinda did that in Pick Your Poison.) So when I was lynched, it didn't lead back to my buddies. Pasch (in large part thanks to me) had a similar outcome--he got lynched, but didn't condemn BRO.
My plan was to have us all win...but my backup plan was to have it so that IF I died, and IF Pasch died, that BROseidon had an excellent chance at winning the game...which he did. He almost pulled it off. It was what I had intended from the beginning of my posting. I set it up instantly, and made only minimal adjusting as the game progressed.
Anything Goes was the same way--my plan was to have us all defend each other, as a scumbloc-appearing-as-townbloc. It didn't work, but it certainly helped us on our path to victory. I set out a plan, from the very beginning, dictating how things would do. And, yes, there were a couple of deviations (e.g. not killing DGB early, using our scum powers differently than I had intended), but for the most part, the plan I laid out at the beginning was uncannily accurate to what happened in the game, perfectly predicting the flow of events if I executed my intended plan--while I did augment my original plan with further plans throughout the game, the original plan still held that guideline to victory.
They were simple. Largely player-dependent, having done analysis on them. Knowing their strengths and weaknesses as players. (Note that in Attack on Titan, I didn't do this immediately--I did it only when I was settled down and had been more exposed to each member.) And knowing the overall vibe, of both the scumteam and the town. And with my proposed plan (a simple plan detailed elaborately but easily summed up by one sentence: "hardcore buddy each other"), leading to victory...which it did.
...What's my master plan this game?
Spam the town to death in scum theater, hoping that apathy would take hold and that nothing I did would have consequences and nobody would bother to think about the possibility of it being scum theater? That's not a plan. That's an action. Which is part of the plan. Again, that's the simplest way I can think of saying it. Playing the best advocate for that train of thought as I can, simplifying it as much as I can to the most realistic portrayal that I can...and even then...it simply doesn't mesh well.
It's not my style in general, and certainly not my style for this game. I KNOW players. I KNOW what strings to pull in order to manipulate them into doing what I want them to do. That's the essence of my scumplay, too. Not manipulating them into thinking I'm town. (Though that's often a part of it, admittedly.) Of them doing what I direct them to do, with their actions ultimately benefiting me.
...That was a little more long-winded than I had intended it to be. But basically, the point I was getting at:
It really, really seems like you're pulling random things together, and not thinking about whether they make sense together or not. (Which is, by the way, what players actually need to catch the real scuMastin's plans. A head for the bigger-picture stuff.)
I would strongly urge you to reconsider your thoughts. ESPECIALLY since I am advocating a lynch on AP right now rather than PV. But more than that, your townreads basically HAVE to have scum in them. Even if Rancid were to be scum (they're not, they are oh SO not scum), it'd be a requirement.
Very much so, yes.In post 3928, notscience wrote:Are you guys going to want my notes to be posted
See, sure. Listen, no. Because Kagura's going to tell you I'm town.In post 3929, CarbonFiber wrote:I'd actually be interested in seeing Kagura's thoughts.-
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MastinSSK Goon
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By the way, point on this that I'd also like to bring up (mostly at pie). As scum, when town players have meltdowns, I explicitly post messages in the scum QT essentially saying, "I feel kinda bad for them. <3 *playerwhomelteddown*." I did it in Anything Goes, feeling sorry for BROseidon and AP being right about the entire scumteam but ultimately ignored, and in-thread, I didn't bother to post anything about it after that. I didn't attack their character, their person, anything, and really didn't call them wrong. All I did was call them scum.In post 3930, MastinSSK wrote:It's not my style in general, and certainly not my style for this game.
Same sort of thing happened in Chain of Command, too. Wisdom nailed the scumteam D2, but got mislynched. I called him scum, and got that mislynch, but I felt terrible for it because he was right and was mislynched for it. In-thread, same basic deal. I did not call him something like, I dunno, "a worthless piece of shit", who was a terrible player that shouldn't play. Those kinds of attacks go against the very fundamentals of my scum honor code, because I respect my worthy opponents. I misdirect the town away from their correct results, of course, because I need to win, still. But I never would stoop to such a low as to say something along those lines as scum.
As scum? I will take the whole thing calmly, for the most part. They're right, so when they're right? I find it very difficult to pretend otherwise. I take it casually. I will be fairly relaxed about the whole thing. I might invoke a raised voice if it's convenient, but during the whole ordeal, I am doing one of two things: trying to get them mislynched, or trying to get them to stop lynching me. But I don't do so with backhanded tactics. I'm upfront about it, attacking them as being scum, or if I'm townreading them, begging them to reconsider.
That's my scumplay under pressure.
Know what my townplay is under pressure? I could give you a long list of things done in various town games like house party, illustrate various language differences, maybe demonstrate it by talking about its tie to my instinctive-omgus to players-I-thought-wouldn't-misread-me-but-are, yet I think there's one sentence that perfectly above all treats me having been under pressure:
"WHAT THE FUCKING HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?"
(And now watch people point out that I'm being calm and that it makes me scum. Regrettably, I have no defense against that other than that they'd be wrong, to look at the rest of the game, and that I'm trying to take a more mature approach, all of which as a defense...kinda sucks. )
You intend on mislynching me. I don't have a choice.In post 3929, CarbonFiber wrote:I am going to say this one more time, please stop spamming the thread. You are making the game harder to sift through.
Clyton and Titan are busy, and have a QT to talk in. We'll get the results later. Kagura I don't need to hear from and you shouldn't, either; you know what I'm saying about them is true. You're right about Orc, though.I'd actually very much like to hear from Kagura, Orc, Clyton, and Titan.-
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MastinSSK Goon
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Sure thing, but I'm about to take a shower. I'll be back in ~1 hour (Yes, I take hour long-showers;In post 3931, CarbonFiber wrote:Mastin, humor me what would you do if you were scum, then in this playerlist? Give me a brief outline on how you would evaluate the players, who you kill, who you would try to mislynch etc assuming the game played out the way it did D1.youtry washing hair that long and doing it in less time. ), and will write it then. (Well, I might respond to posts made after this one first, but will begin immediately after that.)-
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MastinSSK Goon
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MastinSSK Goon
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Back a little early. It's morning showers that take an hour; this one took fifteen minutes less since I'm actually awake.
Before I begin, though, another note on the "WHAT THE FUCKING HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?" bit that's in my towngames and not in my scumgames. I realized in the shower that it actually is basically a universal truth to my towngames, and has been even when I was a VI.
I mean, just in the shower, I thought of examples. A newbie game I IC'd as scum, my attitude towards scumreads on me in-thread was "meh" and out-of-thread was, "WOW!" (Wisdom was one, and Vic--who now has a Rising Star nom--was another.) My reaction to suspicion on me as a town IC was one F-16 is all too familiar with, since he was the primary target, alongside another player.
I was emotionally compromised, sure, yeah, and it was a newbie game so it wasn't as blatant, but if you read that game, you'd see my description of the scumreads on me is accurate.
In Game of Champions, the werewolf superstar of their site was someone I had pegged as having a similar playstyle to that of my own, so when their thoughts contradicted my own and they scumread me, my reaction was essentially just that: "WHAT THE FUCKING HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?"
In JFSF Mafia 2, as a town Joat with a cop-guilty, ABR pushed my mislynch over the Magua-result, and while I had previously townread him, I got paranoia and thought, "WHAT THE FUCKING HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?" (There were other players that game I had that same thought about, too, but don't remember. Maybe DGB?)
In House Party, I had that attitude towards ETL, BROseidon, Desperado, Jake, AND Titus, if memory serves me. Where I essentially said, explicitly, "It's most certainly NOT on my end, so...WHAT THE FUCKING HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?"
And reminiscing about my games as a VI, where I always thought the problem was on their end rather than mine...I launched into long-winded rants when being mislynched about, "WHAT THE FREAKIN' HECK IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?" (I didn't use curse words back then. )
And I don't remember those kinds of rants from my scumgames. The closest I can remember is Emerald City, which was multiscum (thus, I was playing much like town). I don't think any of my scumgames really had it. Oh, I got ticked off, alright, but I don't think it was nearly the same in my towngames.
I'm sure that if I bothered to put in the effort, that tell would be a constant, throughout all my games, as town having that reaction and as scum, not having it.
...In fact, that might be it. THE golden holy grail of reading Mastin. A scum Mastin can put up a good act, and might get ticked off about shitty reasons for being scumread, but cannot. Physically, literally. Cannot get ticked off at the actual scumread itself. Because it's ultimately right. Frustrating, sure. Wishing the scumread could be shook, sure. But ultimately still impressed, even if annoyed.
I think that's the description of my scumplay more than any other. It captures the artificial feeling. It also describes "lack of whimsy", because a scum me can't react in a "WHAT THE FUCKING HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?" (whimsy) way to others, holding that deep respect. And it's also why a scum me tends to be more logical--because I can't think like that, to have that emotion, I also am driven to compensate by looking better in other ways, logic a strong factor.
That's it. It might manifest in different ways each scumgame. It certainly manifests in different ways each towngame. But more than any other thing...I can tell: that's it. And knowing it, you'd think that I could manipulate it. But I can't. Because I know myself, and know my morals. I know how I think, I know that I have that conscience, that humanity, creating a psychological block preventing me from nullifying the tell.
I'm sure as scum that I'll get much, much better at hiding the tell, and faking its counterpart. I'm sure that I'll find ways to obscure it, work around it, misdirect people into thinking that the tell says I'm town. That's a simple piece of scum play, to get better at mimicking your town play, by understanding its factors and being able to replicate them, after all, in a convincing enough matter that it's 99% the same (not quite 100%--you need the 1% to account for playing-to-scum-wincon).
But the tell will never cease to exist.
Because the way you went to reconsider your read on me looked town, and me beginning to be in the "oh, shit, I've fucked up" stage of maturing (recognizing that I've made mistakes), I began to rethink that read. (Still am, btw.) So you're right that you directly triggered the read change.In post 3935, The Fox and the Hound wrote:I don't know how I feel about the fact that Mastin ceasing to tunnel on me happened pretty much right after I decided to stop tunneling on her, while we remain in the scum group (possibly so we can be moved back if I changed my mind).
That actually ties into the recognition of my tell, believe it or not. As scum, I won't be spamming the shit out of the thread, specifically because if I'm in a hole, I need to make sure I get out of it and turn it around. (Unless of course I want to obscure something from the town. Then drowning them in noise is a legitimate tactic.) I'll have a back-and-forth with players scumreading me, but it's focused on exactly the factors I described: getting them to change their read on me, or trying to mislynch them. I pursue no other options as scum.Part of me has a hard time believing the massive level of noise coming from Mastin can actually be scum.
As town, I have no clue whether the person attacking me is scum. So I'm pulling double-duty, potentially triple-duty, in that I not only have to try and get them off, not only have to figure out their alignment, but ALSO if I feel them scum try and push that. And the results are amplified exponentially by the closeness of the person to me plus the number of people with this attitude, making my posting rate skyrocket. I've had scumgames be plenty active, and towngames be lackluster, but only to a certain point. After crossing that, you can tell. Scumgames have a focus on achieving a specific goal, funneling information (this is basically one of the largest aspects of my scumgame: controlling the flow of info so that it says what I want it to say), which is often most helpful with reduced activity, whereas towngames have no focus at all, other than taking what essentially amounts to shots in the dark and hoping they hit scum.
The noise from my slot has exponentially decreased since page three in my iso began, because I'm beginning to focus on factors. Basically every post of mine (aside from some fluff) contains content that is relevant and often new, and is pushing slowly in a specific direction. (Towards AP.)Also, as much as I hate this kind of logic, I feel as though sorting through the rest of the game will become less impossible with less noise.
Soyeah, will be doing F-16's request now.-
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MastinSSK Goon
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MastinSSK Goon
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Note that the opinions listed below are basically my best guess at what I would have said as scum, at the time. Obviously, things are different now, butyeah.
First off, I'd run through the playerlist, listing things about them.
1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
^Something like, "Dunno 'bout bork, but Nacho? Nacho needs to die. Probably not immediately--I'm competent enough that short-term, Icanfool him. But only short-term. I cannot maintain that ruse throughout the whole game. Not even remotely close. And when that townread turns to a scumread...it's all over. Because while we're both charismatic players...he's always been ahead of me on that curb. Last time, it didn't work well for me; this time, won't work any better. Soyeah, nightkill. Probably N1 or N2."
2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
^Not exactly sure, but it'd probably be something like this. "I don't really know either of their towngames that well. I know DV's a fairly-rounded player, but not particularly spectacular; I remember him being mediocre, not particularly good. Cephrir, I've basically only seen as scum. I know he's competent as scum, but that can probably be turned against him, a-la AFB-style."
3 Yukari Yakumo
^Well, I know it's GIF now, but speaking from a scum-me, I likely wouldn't, since I don't really pay attention to that sort of thing. It'd be something like, "Dunno who they are, but they look mislynchable." If a scumbuddy told me it was GIF, then I'd probably clarify. "Oh. Well, then. In that case? Don't really remember much of him. Probably still a fairly easy mislynch, since what I've seen of GIF is that he's kinda lurkish, meaning that in a game filled with more charismatic players, he'll probably be in the bottom. In a different game, sure, yeah, maybe he'd be a top scumhunter, but here...not so much."
4 orcinus_theoriginal
^Likely akin to, "orc's not a particularly noteworthy player. He's in games, kinda just there, and while he's okay, he's not particularly memorable. Additionally, he just won our last game, so he can probably be mislynched off of paranoia."
5 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane)
^Honestly, not sure what I'd say as scum. Best guess is something like this. "Dunno about SAD, but Tammy? We want her on our good side. She gets on our bad side, we're probably screwed. She's a strong player, logical and convincing. If there weren't other nightkills that had higher priority, I'd probably suggest nightkilling her off of just policy alone." Or something akin to that, since it'd be likely similar to my AoT analysis, just...well, taking the results of AoT and the current playerlist into account.
6 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman and natirasha)
^Easy. "KILL IT. KILL IT WITH *insert theme-appropriate mafia kill flavor here*. I cannot fool zMuffinman. Literally, can NOT. He WILL catch me, and the best we can do is hope that he doesn't catch you three. I want him dead immediately, since the longer he lives, the more dangerous he will become. And Natirasha's no slouch, either! Nati might not be as good at reading me, specifically, as zMuff is, but helps to focus zMuff a LOT. Like, zMuff by himself is good, but kinda scatterbrained. zMuff with Nati keeps the good, but gets focused. There's no player here that I fear more than zMuff, and with Nati there to augment (rather than weaken) him, they need to die."
8 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli)
^Also a little bit harder to pin down for sure. But the basic would probably be something like this, I guess. "ffery's a fairly competent scumhunter, who is logical, reasonable, and decent at working with others. She's never been mislynched that I can think of, and add in those charisma and analytical skills, and she alone makes the hydra formidable. Don't really remember Beli that well, but unless he drags her down (I doubt it), my analysis hasn't changed--in a different game, our first nightkill. This game, we'll have to hope she's off-base for long enough to get to her, since there's other priorities that I want dead first." I might reference the ffery-Nacho dynamic, too, but I'm not sure how I would or where I would.
ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling)
^Also easy. I don't remember the exact start date of the game, so I'm not sure when my victory over him in Malakittens's modded game was. If I hadn't won there, yet, I wouldn't make it explicit, but implicit. If I had, then it'd basically be saying, "Don't know about dice, but ProHawk? He's an easy mislynch. He's not exactly a strong scumhunter, and lacks in charisma, making him easy to target. Though, that might be bad, since it'll also mean he's likely to get the 'mac treatment', in that anyone knowing he's an easy mislynch is likely to defend him."
10 Carbon Fiber (FourTrouble and F16)
^Another easy one. "F-16 is a dangerously-competent scumhunter, who is decently charismatic. I'm his teacher, and trust me: you don't want to fuck with him. He is NOT to be underestimated. If we can get on his good side, then we can keep him around for a while, but otherwise, we need him dead."
11 Lord Business
^Also easy. "Dunno who LB is; I don't recognize the name. That makes them a high wildcard. They could be a scumhunting god, they could be absolutely and utterly incompetent. I simply don't know. Be on guard for them being dangerous, especially in a role madness game. But all other factors equal, they're probably going to end up mislynched, so plan accordingly."
12 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado)
^I legitimately don't have a clue what I'd say about them as scum. Like. I'm trying to force something, here. I can fake a scum narrative on a number of things fairly decently. (A lot of the above fits fairly well, though I'm sure the actual scum me would be much more long-winded and take several posts to have it all, rather than having it all in one.) But I have absolutely nothing. Oh, I'd say something about them, no doubt. I always comment on all the players when I comment on them, and I comment on the players basically every game as scum, ESPECIALLY given daychat. But I'm coming up empty.
Like. I don't have anything. At all. Not even a fake thing. Last game I tried this fake-scum-list on, I encountered a similar problem, in that there was a player who I wasn't sure what I'd say as scum, but threw together 'probably something referencing this or that or whatnot', even though I knew that probably wasn't actually true. But I'm drawing a blank even on that. I really can't think about what I'd say. I mean, I suppose as scum, it's possible that means I'd say something like, "I don't know what to say", but I'd have something. Maybe "don't underestimate them, but also don't overestimate them"? Maybe in the potential mislynch pile? I really have no clue. The majority of my time in the shower was thinking about this, and I still don't have it.
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
^Another easy one. "While both players are decent, they are not strong, especially relevant to the rest of this playerlist. They are not a threat. They lack charisma, and aren't very strong scumhunters. Annoyingly, notscience will probably obvtown himself such that they're impossible to mislynch, and if he does, don't bother trying; you'll look like scum for the attempt. But if he doesn't, mislynch away. They might possess a mild danger to some other scumteam, but in this game with this playerbase, not so much."
14 Cupcake Panda
^You'd think that I'd go on about Katsuki, but no, I didn't know Cupcake Panda was Kats, so it'd be another "Dunno, so wildcard" type read. I imagine if my scumbuddies clarified, though, it'd become, "Oh. In that case...Katsuki is likely to lurk as town. Probably not a good idea to push a mislynch of, since Kats will become seen as town and pushing there is hella-scummy. However, Katsuki provides us with perfect vig-bait. Certainly not a threat."
15 PeregrineV
^A bit tougher, but overall, I'd say something like this, I suppose. "PV's strength lies in the late-game. If he gets that far, is analysis is dangerously right-on-the-money. Before then, however, he's, well, he's kinda a lurker. Push at your own risk. If you get a mislynch, it's good, but know that if he lives too long, he'll switch from mislynch-bait into deadly scumhunter. Which he's more inclined to do when heavily pressured."
16 Clyton
^Another simple, "Dunno, could be dangerous" type read. I'm not sure what the exact wording would be, and it'd also requiring me to go back to that time thinking as scum and being aware of Clyton. Like, now I know Clyton's experienced elsewhere but plays on here in a way that isn't best said as being a newb, in spite of being new. If I knew that, I'd have a different answer than if I thought he was a newb or if I thought him an alt, but I can't remember my knowledge level and even if I could, my knowledge level as town is different than as scum.
17 Mac
^A scum-me's treatment of Mac is...complex. I know Mac's a fairly competent player, who is easily defended against being mislynched by those who know him, but I also know that he's a bit on the lurkish side and can garner suspicion. So my read there would likely factor those in, and essentially say, "Basically the only player here that I know who's still best defined as a wildcard; might be worth pushing, but don't be surprised if it backfires."
All of those would form into a general strategy, I'm sure. I'm not precisely sure what the specifics would be. Again, it largely depends on who my scumbuddies would be. But I think my general strategy as scum from the onset would be something akin to,
"This is going to be a tough game. There are a lot of town players here who know each other fairly intimately. So we'll win it by creating paranoia. We can't let townblocs form; we have to let the town tear itself apart. Which also means that we have to not give them hints as to who we are. I know, it's predictable. People have gotten used to it from me, making invoking it dangerous. But I really, really think that we can NOT bus, here. We need to be making essentially our own bloc, because if we succeed, then we'll make the strongest force in the game be the scum players together.
It's a huge gamble, especially in role madness. But my experience with role madness as scum has been that bussing has gone very badly. The scum's roles are meant to interfere with the town's roles, meaning we need each and every single one of them alive as long as possible to screw with the town's strengths and break them up during the night just as much as during the day. The town won't be working together, so if the scum ARE working together, it'll give us the edge."
Meaning that as scum, I'd focus on townreading my scumbuddies and buddying them, while sabotaging efforts for town to work with town. Though there are elements in my play that can be taken that way, it most certainly doesn't fit that mold overall, because my play hasn't been to a plan; my play has been to my own tune.
WHEN AP REPLACED IN:
Assuming AP as town?
"Oh, fuck. Change in plans. We're killing AP N1. NO EXCEPTIONS. I don't give a damn what you think about others. zMuffinman's SOMEHOW misreading me right now, but also being scumread; I'd rather risk facing that read turning around than face AP. We do NOT want him figuring me out. zMuffinman can (normally) read me well, but kinda sucks at figuring out my scumbuddies. AP, on the other hand, has the accuracy of zMuffinman...but thinks almost exactly like I do. Meaning that he WILL figure our plans out. We need him dead. Immediately. His read may not be as strong as others, but he needs to die pronto."
Assuming AP as scum?
"Fuck yeah, game's won. AP, I'm here this game. At my absolute 100%. Give it your all, and we can STEAMROLL this town." No more words need be spoken if I was scum with AP, since when I'm in the game, we have this synchronization that is basically impossible to beat.
WHEN PIE REPLACED IN:
...There probably wouldn't be so much as a ping. I'd be focused on other factors. Like, I suppose I can figure out what a scum-me choosing to focus on pie would say, but I simply think that, bluntly, a scum-me wouldn't really pay attention to that at all.
I can't track the N1 results, since I haven't a damn clue what actually happened. I can tell you I wouldn't janitor Rancid, but that's about all.
There's probably more I could add, but this is as good as a scum-picture me as I can generate given that I'm not actually scum, don't actually have the full picture, and thus, don't actually have the full answers for the full interactions I'd make. It's definitely different from what I've done thusfar in the game, though.-
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MastinSSK Goon
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The post is explicitly my guess at what a scum-me would be thinking, which means town.In post 3941, The Fox and the Hound wrote:Is this referring to me as town, scum or both?
Oh no you fucking don't. I made that post specifically because I was asked to, to demonstrate what a scum me would have said at the beginning of the game and strategized for. No fucking shit it's "potshots on everyone", that's because it's working from the fucking perspective of me being a fucking scumbag and mapping a path to victory, a path which explicitly involves starting some fucking infighting with them thinking of each other like that. That's the fucking point.In post 3942, notscience wrote:I seriously want to lynch mastin for that last post because it felt like "lets potshot everyone on the playerlist so they start infighting because they think others actually think of them like that"
I did the concise thing.In post 3946, Yggdra Union wrote:Like, in 3930, all he had to say was "you don't think like me. Try to think like me." and it probably would've said the same thing.
It got me voted.
I realize that excessive walling is bad. That's why I'm trying to keep the posting I'm doing productive. But people aren't listening to my shorter posts, and are listening to my longer ones, at least listening to them more. Because frankly, wallposting is me. In my default state, I am repetitive and say a few things in a lot of words. So silencing it ends up silencing me. The best I can do is try and make them fluent, so that while the wall exists, people can read it all fairly easily.
Now, stop scumreading me and place trust in me, and my tune will change, I can guarantee you. I place trust in other players, so the only things I really ask about are things that I don't quite get and want to get. But when they don't trust me, then I elaborate as if they have asked and will continue to ask until there's a clear answer, if that makes sense. It's how my brain is wired. If you placed trust in me, and only wondered about some of my reads, then those reads would be the only things I talked about, and I'd do so fairly clearly and precisely, since I was answering specifics from a person I trust, and basically leave it at that.-
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MastinSSK Goon
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Right, should probably ping SSK again. And warn him that there's probably at least two scum off the wagon. (Potentially--though not probably, by this point--three.)In post 3950, Yulia Jue wrote:MastinSSK (5): Just Sheep Us, PeregrineV, Red Gyarados, Yggdra Union, The Fox and the Hound-
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MastinSSK Goon
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Might as well paraphrase the ping I gave SSK, though it's nothing you haven't seen. We're the lead wagon a fraction of the way into the day...again. That Rancid was janitored and people are being stupid by thinking that was anything but scum's doing and that Rancid was anything but town.
That Kats is town, AP's scum, Stalin's probably scum, orc's null, Clyton's null, and that F-16 is town but is at least making the effort to analyze.-
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MastinSSK Goon
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