Tales of You (Endgame)

[MastinSSK]

Oh.

I forgot.

Has a role that is deeply, deeply threatening to them, actively claimed.
Not just the rolecop, but also gladiate aspect of it.

Seriously. All there.

Also, something worth considering--Mac easily coulda protected Rancid, yet because lolcabd, both died through some weird role shenanigans.

[MastinSSK]

ITT mastin tries to look oh so town by acting like she doesn't care that I'm taking it as a scumclaim if she responds to my posts

Figure I might as well address this.

It's as I said. The rift's there. You're hounding for my blood, and will either refuse to respond or scumread literally every point I make, so it's not like the void can get much worse by me posting responses to you. It can get better, though. Basically minimal risk, for high potential reward.

Like, I get your concern about noise noise noise, drowning the thread out. I also get your concern about your questions and points and whatnot getting lost. But while me not intervening would seem like wisdom, the warning in my heart is that not closing the rift as soon as possible will cause damage too deep to fix.

[MastinSSK]

Derp.

If Kagura wasn't conftown before, they are now.
Mac was a modified rolestopper.
Look up what rolestopping does.
AP claims to have had Kagura targeted, but having received no result--regardless of AP's alignment, I'm inclined to believe he's telling (most of) the truth in that.
Kagura was Mac's target last night.

[MastinSSK]

(By the way, for those curious overall to as what sparked the overall change in my approach this game. I'd like to say it was all me, but it was very largely GreyICE's feedback that I was thinking of at the time. I was in my car, about to get to driving, when his words entered my mind. And though I knew that I couldn't get nightkilled because I had claimed, I also knew that his advice was good advice to have regardless of that. And that was the thought triggering Xeno, with me essentially going as an instinctive response, "That advice has backfired on you before!" But as I was driving, I kept weighing things. And I thought of the things I talked about. How I've been in a rut for...quite a while. And not feeling like, well, me. I've noted this before, and tried fixing it. But I think I was focusing in the wrong areas before, because they didn't have a large impact on me. But this simple change...has.)

[MastinSSK]

Realized I could do a reach-out, here.

Vote: stalin

Also fine with PV

I'm wagoning PV. You still interested in joining?

Would you call me town as scum mastin I wonder...

Difficult to say (that'd require me actually being scum ), but...probably? I mean, probably the main difference is that a scum me likely would take a stance and only change it if it's convenient to do so, whereas a town me isn't sure and both takes time to develop the read and doesn't put a hard stock in it. I've seen you as scum multiple times with me as town (not that you'd know all of them were me), and suspected you correctly of being scum, but I never was absolutely sure about it.

[MastinSSK]

If anything it's odd that she is not just straight up attempting to rebut you.

Combination of factors. Partly understanding pie's concern about drowning things out in noise. Partly because I frankly don't feel the need to defend myself. And largely because while I'm obviously hoping to bridge the gap, there's only so much I can do when pie keeps on blowing the damn bridge up.

You say your approach to the game has changed, but other than you suddenly asserting that you are a town leader and everyone should follow you, I don't really feel like anything actually different is happening?

Not really sure how it's not obvious. The tone of my posts is different. (It certainly feels different, at least!) How I'm approaching the game is different. My posting towards others is different. It's an entirely new mindset. (Rather, I think it'd be more accurate to say it's a mindset that I had in what I consider to be the peak of my town play, which was...I think in either 2011 or 2012. The year where I had excellent reads, reasoning, and was charismatic, and transparently town. [Rather, my scumgame was bad enough that people not seeing it instantly townread me. ] One year was the peak of my townplay, and the following year my best scumplay. So probably 2012, with 2013 being scumplay and this year being them averaging out.)

An element of myself that is now coming back out, slowly. Admittedly, not that many posts where you can see it. But while I am obviously a bit biased (it being me feeling it), I still think that it should be conveyed through the keyboard.

[MastinSSK]

Spoiler: Mental to-do list

I'm trying to figure out a reach-out to DesBRO. (Coming up empty, though. The only time I did a successful reach-out to BRO was when I had a mason role and 'crumbed it as said reach-out.)

I will likely need a reach-out to Clyton, but my wavering (and, ultimately, waning) scumread there is at least a start, since I think we might be coming to a bit of an understanding of each other, and that said understanding (if legitimate) means he can be town and can be worked with.

I guess I could also reach out to orcinus and PV, in spite of my scumreads on them, but aside from, "Hi, I think you're both scum", I can't really think of anything to discuss (not argue) with them other than that, because while I'm open to being wrong about my read, I don't see how I would be. Oh, I guess I also need to reach out to Red Gyarados, since I'm not sure they're town.

When it comes to Fox/Hound, they're not someone who I so much need to reach out on, so much as they are someone I need to analyze. They're already kinda sorta with me already, and my read on them is continuously changing, but I don't think that interacting with them more directly will help, and that the only way I can get a read on them that sticks is by getting bearings on them via other factors.

I removed Tammy from the list, because again, I'm not sure there's any reach-out I can do that Rancid didn't already do. If you want to talk with me about anything, Tammy, just tell me and I will, but I can't think of anything to initiate conversation aside from a weaker "trust Rancid".

Clyton/Tammy:

Keep us posted on your blazing. I realize there's business right now, but when you have the time, it'd be great to actually have neighbors who are sharing stuff about each other. Like overall thoughts and general impressions and such.

Understanding: The understanding is coming in Day 2.

So I can kinda sorta guess at it, Clyton, but mind making it explicit what the understanding you have is?

I can easily forgo my right to caution for a more aggressive, risk-taking approach if the situation is right for me to do so.

Why did you deem it appropriate to forgo caution for more aggressive recklessness near the end of D1?

I can tell you that the reasons for my illogical approach can be explained purely within my playstyle should the game continue to be more unfavorable for town.

If you're able to, I'd like to have some elaboration on this as well.

(I'm still not pleased with how orc used his role, but what's done is done).

If you're not pleased with how the role was used, what do you think (if anything) that means for orcinus's alignment?

AP, calm down a bit. You're going everywhere with your content.

What's your current AP read?

I already discussed RBD and his hypothetical lack of credibility, and Kagura is not in a good spot assumingly as he is getting assaulted from his neighbours because of his late appearance in Day 1 when the wagon was nearing its end.

What's your current take on Rancid and Kagura's stances? (And alignment, for that matter.) I'm especially interested, because of this:

Trust: I would take a majority's opinion as trust then one person's opinion. I think it is fair enough to state this because the majority is most likely town anyways.

I need to get better at this whole discussing thing. (There's more I'm sure I should be thinking of, but this is about it that comes to mind.) I'm sure somewhere down the line, there was something to come up in me that you didn't quite get either, Clyton, so me asking all these questions to you means it's only fair you get to do the same for me.

[MastinSSK]

I'm totally going to fail at this one, but I have to try. Best I can come up with is reading (not skimming) the whole iso and trying to find things that could still be relevant.

walking dead vibes, specially with gyarados, rancid, stalin, lord business, and titan. the latter two should nip their shit in the bud sooner rather than later.

Desp, does this still hold?

i also basically only have townreads still. if i squint really hard i can make up a scumread on some people (orcinus, drake, peregrine) but they wouldn't have any conviction behind them.

Come to think about it, I don't think you ever actually gave that reads list.

...Okay, you did, I guess, but that was a long time ago and reads change. Can I get an updated individual readslist from you? Then a combined one when overlapped with BRO's?

I'm trying to find common reference points.

HOLY SHIT MASTIN, YOU'RE CALLING ME OUT ON A MISTAKE WHEN YOU'RE DOING THE EXACT SAME THING AND NOT TRYING TO RECALIBRATE.
I'D THINK THAT AFTER YOUR SHIT IN AP'S GAME TOWN-YOU WOULD TRY TO, Y'KNOW, NOT SUCK THE NEXT GAME.

I'm putting that effort in right here and now. I'm sure there's been some sort of recalibration in your posting, but can you give me an idea of what you've recalibrated on?

In all honestly I haven't read a p5 post that I can remember yet. He's also like z-tier priority right now.

Is he still?

conclusion: ap is scum

Did you ever work out the dissonance, here?

the core of the game early on was very much mastin/tammy/f-16 once he moved in. Fox/Hound buddied behind Tammy, and RBD buddied behind mastin. This led me to strongly think that 1, maybe 2 people in that core group are scum. Fox/Hound and RBD make the most sense given how the attacking/defending/chainsawing mapped out.

Alright, so you're scumreading me, but assuming I'm town, do you still think this holds true?

I've thought nearly every one of mastin's pushes this game have been bad. I've been positional opposed to her at every juncture. Granted, this has happened with both of us as town before.

Most of them have been. But you're correct, it's happened with us both being town before. You willing to deal with the possibility it happened again?

But I don't think town muffin/nati would see the game so nearly identically.

My posts were made mostly before Rancid's, so I couldn't have been sheeping them. Do you think I as scum was able to predict their thoughts so perfectly as to essentially sheep-them-before-they-posted?

This like an inversion of that thought process (i.e., she's trying to refute the town read without understanding the trajectory on it, and the misunderstanding of why the town read exists is showing)

Okay, so I'm not going to ask if an inversion of a scum thought process is still a scum thought process, since it IS sometimes, coming from me. But if you still believe this, can you explain in more detail why you think that this is an inversion and why this specific inversion is coming from scum rather than town?

Yeah, there's often 1, maybe 2 scum in the lurker group, but being able to tell scum-lurk from town-lurk is a skill that exists.

Who would the scum in the lurker group be?

Why are you writing off mastin's push on you as being from House Party Mini mastin instead of from scum mastin?

Runs the other way, too. Why are you writing this off as being a scum me rather than having been a me from my town games?

ns's vote on me looks terribad if mastin flips scum.

What's your opinion on ns in general, my alignment aside?

Again, I'm confused as to why you too so long.

Did you ever give more extensive thought to AP's trajectory on me?

Here's mastin's initial attack on Titan.
Notice the post counts.

Would you listen if I gave an explanation for that initial attack? (Note MY post count.) Obviously I don't believe it anymore, but I can explain that little bit fairly easily.

Who exactly do you want to lynch today?

Cupcake and Yakuri would be the ones I'd most like to lynch. But that's less from a strong scmread and more frm a lack of townread.

I expect more from you :/

You expected more from PV. What do you think that says of PV's alignment?

AP, your refusal to lynch RBD makes zero fucking sense.

Do you think that this could be alignment-indicative of AP?

You know what I'm capable of doing when I turn on.
Why the fuck aren't you working with me.

Why DO you think AP didn't work with you?

We can deal with Clyton later.
pedit: ffery, are you trying to get me to scumread you?

Thoughts on both?

It's gonna be me/CF/Foxhound. Maybe p5? [on both Rancid/mastin wagons]

Assuming Rancid and myself town, what do you make of the overlap?

AP being strangely disconnected from me haven't helped, either.

Why do you think AP has been disconnected from you, BRO?

I feel bad trying to lynch people I'm close to.

Ask yourself if this could be interfering with your AP read.

Desp is still biasing towards town-Kagura. They've moved to my null-scum pile.

Desp, if you still have Kagura as town, what do you make of their townread on me? And BRO, if AP's result (and/or my theory on Mac) has changed your read on Kagura to town, same question.

ap you are being dumb.

Do you think AP is dumb as town?

Final questions:
What do you make of Rancid's death?
What do you make of Mac's death?

[MastinSSK]

The self-referential walls are tedious and waffly.

How so?

@orcinus you're too quiet for my taste.

What do you think this means for orc's alignment?

Also, I realize I've posted a lot, so easy to miss, but do you have commentary on my post here to you?

For the record, AP's invocation of MD looks like bullshit. (There are reasons for Red Gyarados to be town and for said townread to be lessened, but while said reasons are very very slightly tied to activity, are basically whole different entities.)

[MastinSSK]

(For the record--I should do other stuff, but basically only have PV, orc, ns/BS, and Fox/Hound to interact with.)

[MastinSSK]

Mastin, I myself say that activity is an accurate way to read me, that my activity tis game SHOULD be changing reads.

Thus, tied to activity but not directly. ffery's post isn't my reason, but is kinda sorta vaguely along the lines of my own read.

[MastinSSK]

I've hydra'd with Nati. I have some idea of his strengths and weaknesses in reads. When we disagree, it's not 100% that I'm wrong and he's right. It's a constellation.

This doesn't sound like someone trusting the song contest card.

kinda depends on who comprises who the scum team is IMO.

No, it really, really doesn't. Not for me, anyway. Out of all the players I have ever been scum with since 2010, there's only been one. One. Player out of all of them. That I have EVER considered my superior, and that's Nacho. Him? Him, I'd let dictate the kill. In every other game? It's always been me. For instance? I controlled the kill to a large extent in Attack on Titan, when BROseidon was my scumbuddy. I fought for control for the scum nightkill in Anything Goes (which has Sven, Tammy, Mina, and Katsuki as scumbuddies!), and ultimately, was the one with the largest influence there. Heck! You mention Thor as someone you fought with? I controlled his scum nightkill in Walking Dead! You can't find a scum game of mine where I'm not the one controlling scum's kill, at least not when I'm alive, since that's just what I DO as scum. I create the path to victory--a path that nightkills are a part of.

Even if I'm ultimately not the one in control of the nightkill, I hold such influence over it that I might as well be. There's never a night where I let a kill go through that I don't agree with; even if it's not my primary nightkill, the kill will be a secondary or tertiary target of mine that I wanted dead anyway, just in a different night.

Neither Mac nor Rancid nor Kagura (if my theory is correct) fit this profile. Not this game, anyway.

I think RBD were town. I don't think they were the scumkill.

Then what killed them?

PV but not CF or BroDesp. Reads you also apparently disagree with RBD about.

Well, yeah, I disagree about the scumreads there on those two. Not a scumhunting god, albeit an elite scumhunter; he wouldn't be perfect. That's one area that I think he wasn't perfect in. (He totally gets a Tales-of-You card if he was, though. In addition to a Xeno-mollie card I now owe.)

I noticed you're not voting anyone. Would you be willing to vote PV?

I think he's disappointed that my read on AP took a turn because he thought gambitgate was prime scumposting.

Well, ask Beli about his other reads. I happen to agree about him on AP, but I'm not sure I'm willing to take that risk today.

[MastinSSK]

Do you think AP is dumb as town?

Do you think Im dumb as scum?

No. However, I

know

that you're a brilliant enough scum player to fake being dumb-as-town in a way that comes across as being really town.

[MastinSSK]

Wow. I dont think I've ever read a more thinly veiled attempt at getting someone turned against me.

Thinly veiled implies there's a veil in place when there's no cloth separating it at all. I DID say taking the mantle of town leader. I think that the townread there is wrong, but I want to understand it and see if it holds validity.

What do YOU think of my refusal to lynch RBD, ffs?

Not relevant--the bit in question is attempt to work with BROseidon. (Rather, lack thereof.) Bluntly, my take on it and your take on it is irrelevant, no matter how truthful it may be, because I'm asking what HE thinks of it. It's called a reach-out for a reason.

[MastinSSK]

And like one thing at a time mastin.

Gets dangerously close to confirmation bias.

I will focus on one thing at a time, and am--I am directing things towards PeregrineV. I am not focusing on him to the exclusion of all other things.

You want PV? Im willing to work with that right now.

Your (lack of) vote says otherwise.

[MastinSSK]

Oh. Your post reminds me.
That's one reason I've felt you're scum.

You're playing far. FAR. More reactively this game than you should be, ESPECIALLY as a cop.
The town AP I know is more proactive and aggressive. That's not been absent for part of the game; it's been absent ALL the game.

I'll put it another way.
Town-AP is generating opinions.
Scum-AP is more concerned about opinions.
And your play this game looks like the latter. Not former.

But I digress. This is not a rock-solid tell. It's a potential alignment indicator but not a strong one. You have scum-games generating opinions and town-games being concerned about opinions, but they're bluntly not the majority.

[MastinSSK]

This is not a rock-solid tell. It's a potential alignment indicator but not a strong one. You have scum-games generating opinions and town-games being concerned about opinions, but

they're bluntly not the majority

.

The majority of your towngames are proactive.
A significant portion of your scumgames are playing more reactive.

But really--know what I'm seeing from you? Putting me down. I'm also seeing waiting for others, and not truly engaging many. Reactive play.
Know what I'd expect? You to be strongly pushing your reads. You to be voting. To be strongly pushing your opinions, vying for town leader position. Trying to take control and lynch scum, and if. IF. Not sure who they are, actively figuring it out. With a lot of inquiries, with a posting storm of productive posting focused on them.
When most of your posting is...focused on you.

If a true scumtell was 80%, this would be something like 65%. Not a strong indicator, but a strong potential indicator.

[MastinSSK]

I've been trying to explain how you are coming off to people who aren't you.

Your posting hasn't given that vibe at all. And that's not even what my point even was about. I'm seeing shutting inquiries down reactively, rather than creating them proactively.

Lets see, what have I been doing this game? Oh ya I have been tunneling the crap out of BORK and F16 yet Bork is on pretty much everyone's obvtown list and my F16 push went basically nowhere despite me howling about how hilariously scum he is all D1.

My point exactly. One of the highest post counts. One of the lowest amount of content. On others. On reasoning. On pushing. Like, my posting has been tunneling and my posting has had fluff and my posting has gone in circles...but that's not the entirety of my posting. Ignoring your defense, it pretty much is the entirety of yours. This is an oversimplification; the exact wording isn't there. But it's exactly what I was saying. It's not just now. For the entire game, you've been reacting rather than being proactive. And seem to have a much larger concern for how you are perceived than I'd expect from a town-you.

[MastinSSK]

you literally just accused me of being reactive when Ive wasted all my energy D1 pushing Kagura (and being met with this bullshit) and F16 (and being met with general apathy).

I did say that I wasn't explaining things as best I can. The two augment, not contradict, one another.

And the hypocrisy on top of that is I spent a LOT of my effort arguing with you on D1 with you telling me "But AP you aren't working with me" despite you tunneling the crap out of me.

Arguing != working with. Working with = working with. Involving mutual levels of play, essentially. (The best words to describe it aren't there.) Another way of saying it, is that, well. Your posting was...passive aggressive? Best I can think of to describe it. I'll fully admit I wasn't working with others. But I also saw you not working with me. With. Well. With shit like this, to be honest.

If you want to see me back in this game spiritually 100%, you'd maybe actually give 2-shits when I explain why I think your Nacho read is shitty instead of trying to pin a case on me for it that doesnt even make sense.

(And this also makes no sense, given the multitude of solid reasons presented, which you admitted held merit with an "I-guess-town" read.)

Just so many things are bogging this game down, and on my end most of them are from you.

The thing about it is that in past town games of yours, you've always overcomed those things. Me as scum, by overcoming me. Me as town, by working with the town in spite of me hindering progress. This is a problem that I traditionally have associated with you being scum--because I bog the game down for you, having correctly eyed you suspiciously. You overcome it as scum more often than not, and did so this game. But again, this mindset I'm not seeing as being from town.


I fully realize that my posting right now is probably not the most coherent. I need to gather those thoughts up and see if I can figure out a way to say it as clearly as I can. The best way I have of describing it right now is that, well...you're focusing on all the areas that I'd expect as scum and none of the areas I'd expect as town. More than any other words, those seem the most accurate.

[MastinSSK]

I fully realize that my posting right now is probably not the most coherent.

(Which means I'll probably stop talking. If talking is productive, I will continue it. I feel like coherent talking about AP would be productive. But I also feel like I'm losing that coherency, and that incoherent talking about AP is just more noise not needed.
Honestly, I think what I need is a nap. In part thanks to working on this game, I'm running on whatever the math is for going to bed at 2:30 and getting up at 6, hours wise. This game's something I try to squeeze in time for during the morning, obsess over during the afternoon, and is among the last things I do at night. I meant it when I said I have an unhealthily large devotion to it.)

[MastinSSK]

I lied. Wrap-up post on AP.
Could be said: his attacks feel half-hearted, with his defense being a focus, whereas a town-him I'd expect to have a half-hearted defense, with the attacks being the focus.

To keep this post from being AP-centric, though, general note that while I probably need to shut up about AP (since I'm not sure I'm conveying my point any more clearly with the extra posts) until I can make that talk productive again, I'm still looking to talk with others, on anything and everything. (Including their takes on AP and if they have questions about my read there.)

[MastinSSK]

Mastin, I appreciate you

saying

that you are reaching out to me but you are not actually doing it. You are still pushing PV who is a pretty strong townread of mine. If you do happen to be town, I'd prefer you work with me to help lynch AngryPidgeon.

And quit spamming the thread, both of you. The past couple of pages have no new content. Just pointless arguing between the two of you while you call AP scum but put him for tomorrow and AP calls you bad town basically.

VOTE: AngryPidgeon.
You were saying?

(Kinda addresses both posts, but will give a more detailed answer in a bit. Basically, there's multiple aspects of reaching out, and the pages were most certainly productive with content in them.)

[MastinSSK]

Mastin, I appreciate you

saying

that you are reaching out to me but you are not actually doing it.

As my last post indicated, I'm trying, but am not the best at it. I reached out to you about your read on me as a start, and I'm reaching out to you about my reads--things that are leader-centric reachouts mainly, when you're not looking for that, you're looking for that respect. And I do value your opinion on things. So I fully do intend to read your PV case in more detail, and analyze it.

But I can tell you right here and now. From having skimmed it before, while it looked possible, I didn't particularly feel it resonate with me. And though it's interesting. Though it's something to consider. After reading it, I didn't feel my opinion of PV change at all. And my reasoning for PV hasn't really changed that much, I admit. I detailed this in my Clyton exchange if you read that, but basically...I don't see a scumteam without him. He's in the POE candidates. His play hasn't matched my memory of a town-PV. But mostly, I really. Really. REALLY. Want to trust Rancid's read, there. (I also think it was a Mac read.) Because as much as I want to trust living town, F-16, I trust dead-town a lot more in general.

I want to hear more from DV, Kagura, Orc, and Titan especially.

Got reads on 'em?
...Okay. I don't really have to ask about Titan. And I know that the reason you're asking is basically their lack of posting much so far today, but I'm wondering if it's townread-I-want-more-of, scumread-I-want-pursued, or dunno-need-to-figure-out for them.

(Btw, I do agree on getting more from them. DV's a null-read in general, but by POE I'm strongly considering scum. Orc's a scumread. Kagura is a townread not only off of play, but the multitude of factors vaguely pointing to them being town.)

Unless I missed it, which is possible, you didn't respond to this point.

Fairly certain I did. They're in the list of not-god-but-good for Rancid. Rancid ultimately ended up kinda-townreading F-16 anyway, and I think post-meltdown DesBRO was a townread of theirs, but even if either of these weren't true, they are for me.

There are a lot of Rancid reads I agree with, and not a lot I disagree with--and those I disagree with aren't clear reads near the end of the day. I guess I could full-iso Rancid again to double-check, but I think if you looked at his reads reverse-chronologically, you'd find it most certainly not hypocritical. (Okay. So there is one read for which my current thinking goes against Rancid's, and that's townreading you when he might have scumread you. But that's something which I can't be sure of.)

[MastinSSK]

I hope they do start being transparent in thread because that would really help. Nacho does concern me very much and I'm not really seeing any reason for Bork being uber town. I know that he's someone who's pretty transparent, but I'm not seeing it at all. If he's saving up all his cool town posts for the neighborhood, he should start bringing them in thread too. I just feel like he's here, and again if it weren't for nacho being his other head, and that being a constant presence and concern for me, I wouldn't even remember Bork was playing.

And now you know how I felt about F-16 and to some extent the other two members of the Terrible Trio. (Name's not an insult, btw. It could be one if the terrible-trio defends lotsa scum and pushes mislynches, which would make them a terrible trio of town players to the town. But it could also be a compliment if the terrible-trio defends lotsa town and pushes scum, which would make them a trio of town players terrible to the scum. It's a bit inaccurate a name, though, since I feel neither is the case and that they're in the middle overall, with good points and pushes and bad points and pushes. But it has alliteration, which makes it sound cool. )

It's not unheard of that someone decides they're going to really try to put forth the effort and has the scum game of their lives even without practice.

Anything Goes was that game for me.

I'm pretty sure that's one of the questions I asked upon seeing the flip, so I *think* we can trust those results.

I trust the flip (I seem to recall something akin to "no lying, but lol @ setup spec"), but there's a twinge of paranoia that Cabd game = starts town, dies, and comes back as scum. (Which, while misleading, is not a lie.) I don't know what Replicants are, but the name kinda implies, well, a replication of someone, which dieing-then-coming-back would allow. If Cabd answered THAT, I'd love to know.

VOTE: AngryPidgeon.

By the way, while I realize this vote is set up to be a reaction to F-16, and to some extent it is, I should clarify that it is something that I was already considering. The main reasons I have for not wanting AP dead are (1) the chance his role is legitimately town, and (2) AP being AP. Both of which aren't exactly strong, 'specially given their handling. (In particular, AP this game, not the AP-town that I'd defend to the death.) And I'm considering the reasons for wanting PV dead, and really the main one I have is just what I said, sheeping Rancid. Whereas with AP, I have a lot of me in there. F-16's posting just served as the catalyst to set it in motion.

[MastinSSK]

Btw, AP, BROseidon, and DV should all be posting soon, so have raised eyebrows if they don't within the next hour or two.

Pedit: mastin I'm pretty sure my question to cabd was if lb could come back as scum, and I'm pretty sure the answer was no or something along those lines, but still in bed, still not wanting to get up, will check tomorrow.

Ah, good. Ignore my point, then.

Oh haha I'm jus now reading the tales of the abyss neighborhood, I didn't read that before.

Waitwat, you get access to the previous QT?!?

*grumble, grumble, Iwantinnocenceneighborizedbutf16won'tbotherwastingitonme, grumble*.

[MastinSSK]

Also expecting ffery/notscience posting soon, btw.

Why would you think that faction scum would have killed RBD, or that Mac wouldn't have hit the BG?

Iso me; the reasons are at the literal top of the third page. (Actually, the second half of the reasons.) Because Rancid is ZMUFFINMAN and NATIRASHA. (Especially zMuffinman.) Maybe I'm biased by his ability to read me, but I hold him in high regards as a scumhunter in general. All it takes is one scum player feeling the same.

Additionally, janitor, which while not definitive in a Cabd game, is still probably scum's doing, ESPECIALLY given how they emphasized the need for players to sheep their townread on me after they flipped town, and how players attacked me immediately into D2. Mac's a bit tougher to pin down. My leading theory is that Mac targeted Kagura. I also haven't eliminated Mac having targeted Rancid yet somehow both dieing anyway. It could also be that Mac successfully protected a vig target, rather than a scum target. Or Mac coulda been flat-out nightkilled by scum. There's too many possibilities with no way of determining their probability.

But assuming a scum nightkill on one of Mac/Kagura/Rancid (potentially two; a double-kill is not unheard of), no matter how you slice it, that'd mean scum killing someone defending me, which is against my MO as scum.

[MastinSSK]

Common reference points b/w me and him? Because Desp and I are fairly in agreement at this point (we had a dissonant read last night that resolved itself, which really just leaves AP as the only read where we're substantially off one another.

Well, yeah, I suppose, if you disagreed on a lot I could help get you agreeing, but I meant common reference points between you and me.

Soyeah. I don't have a neighborhood/QT that allows me to see your reads, and they haven't been shared so far today. While reasoning is preferred, it's optional; I just want to know where you're standing overall right now.

[MastinSSK]

I think his claim does look plausible and if it is a fake-claim, it is pretty good one.

That would be because if he's scum, the claim is likely to be 90% true. I mean, I guess AP could be pulling it all out of his ass, but Cabd gives scum roles or fakeclaims-of-roles that allow for this kind of thing. Explicitly, this is not a game to be read on roles, but rather, on play--and to me, AP's play (though it can come from town) doesn't look like it is.

What about PV didn't feel like town-PV to you?

It's probably somewhere in page two of my iso, but basically, the early effort and aggressiveness felt "off" to me. Best described as, for lack of a better term, gut. As I said, the scumread there is mainly off of POE combined with a fair dash of sheeping Rancid.

And I am playing under the assumption that Rancid is scum because their play makes much more sense that way.

And I'm playing under the assurance that Rancid isn't scum, because their play makes perfect sense coming from them if you understand how their minds operate as town (which I kinda do), it is ridiculously town if you read them by their tone, past accuracy in having read them, and the circumstances of their demise.

Also, if a vig killed Rancid and know their affiliation, it might not be a bad idea to speak up.

Thing is, if there's a vig, I'm 90% sure I know who they are. I'd prefer not to elaborate.

By the way, DesBRO, there was more in post 3747 that I'd like you to answer.

[MastinSSK]

Btw, AP, BROseidon, and DV should all be posting soon, so have raised eyebrows if they don't within the next hour or two.

Baroo?

Well, raised eyebrows for everyone listed, but while for them it'd be brows, for you it'd be brows. (Best way to describe it.)

I think the huge divergence in RBD reads indicates two very different fragments of town in this game, with two strongly divergent ideas about what is going on.

This is kinda self-evident? I mean, it's basically what I've been saying explicitly for the last 24 or so hours, and even when I was in snark-mode was being implicitly said.

me:
Town
2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
9 AngryPidgeon 9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling)
15 PeregrineV

Null-town
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
4 orcinus_theoriginal

Null-scum
1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
11 Lord Business
16 Clyton

Lean scum
8 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli)

Scum
6 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman and natirasha)
7 MastinSSK (Mastin2, MafiaSSK)

Desp had AP and Kagura swapped relative to this. I've also moved Kagura up a few tiers today because reasons.

Actually, my first move is to beg you to show me why Fox/Hound is town. I'd love to bump them out of that damn nullzone, so if you can present some damn good reasons for them being town, I'd be heavily inclined to listen and, well, sheep you.
The second move is to ask for you to address the bits in my post about AP, things that quite frankly me-in-your-shoes would have pinged about him. And to ask that if you're townreading him in spite (or because of) the pings, as to why.
...The third move is to ask why PV's so high up. But not why-not-in-scum, so much as why-so-strongly-town.
And then the fourth is to ask for reasons on Red Gyarados and orcinus, since both are figures of extreme interest for me right now.
And the fifth is to ask about the emptiness in your scum list with Kagura moving up and Lord Business having flipped town.
And the sixth is to ask about what you think Rancid's alignment is because of the janitored flip.

So PV's about middle-of-the-list.

[MastinSSK]

Remember that time I said I was going to get to it later?

Well, no, but I do now, so 'kk. Will look forward to it.

And thank god, at least we have a partial overlap. Admittedly, with the order inverted. Orc at the top, Stalin at the bottom, Clyton in the middle, with a side of Gyarados. (Admittedly, where they fall is...really, really fluctuating.)

[MastinSSK]

That's usually how it goes because most of the time it takes a body of work to figure out what wincon is driving my mindset and behaviors.
This game has given me plenty of opportunity to lay down a body of work.

For the record, ffery.
You, uh.

Kinda haven't.

Most of your posting has been behind-the-shadows. Not in public, but analyzed behind a supposed closed door of yours.

I'm basically feeling the need to have a revisit to my scum list atm, and bluntly you're among those that could fall in.

I'm sure there are aspects within your posting that could be construed as obvtown, but overall, your posting...isn't.

[MastinSSK]

(One of the massive pains in the ass is that nobody here is going to have the full picture. Rancid won't have. Mac won't have. Lord Business won't have. I certainly don't have it. Nor do I think any of the players I consider town have it. But I'm putting a lot of serious effort into trying and figuring out who's right where and wrong, where. Obviously, it's easier in some areas than others. I know Rancid was town, Janitor be damned. I know myself to be town, suspicion on me be damned. I know Titan's town, I know DesBRO's town, I'm gambling on F-16 being town and Kagura being town. So those, not so hard. The hardness comes in figuring out the rest, and I'm trying to piece it all together, without much success right now.)

[MastinSSK]

You were reaching out and trying to work with me earlier.

I'm reaching out to everyone.

And with Bro's reads list suddenly I'm at the bottom.

No, you have been at the top of mine. But while you've briefly left it, you've been consistently returning to "the six". You're still not a strong scumread--if I was, I might be voting you. It's just that my townread on you has atrophied, for a multitude of reasons. Lack of obvtownness. Slight concern about overall approach to the game. Rancid's dieing vote. Me not being crazy, with others (and not AP-others, others-who're-probably/definitely-town-others) seeing it too. Feeling different from your normal town self. Some of my scumspects lower on the list having reasonable doubt about them being scum. As just those off the top of my head.

Now, tell me how you've been rethinking all day and only just got around to posting this read change.

Because I'm scatterbrained and the read change only got posted when attention was drawn to you and that reminded me, "Oh, yeah! About them."

[MastinSSK]

That turnaround reeks and if you're town you've killed any chance whatsoever of us working together short of mod-confirmation you're town.

There is no turnaround. Run an iso of me on Stalin (you). You leave the pool at points. You return at later points. My read on you has been fluctuating. It still is. You're not a strong scumread. You're just not currently a townread. There's been a concern about you. There has been all day. Because this read on you isn't exactly new to today, either.

You've been nulltown. The reach-outs to you are for two purposes. (1) To work with your reads if you are town, (2) and if so, to figure that fact about you out for sure. Because while I've vaguely leaned that direction for the majority of the game...I've never been sure about it. I'm not discarding your feedback. But I am pointing out how I feel, and one of those feelings is that, well, quite frankly, you've not been giving clear feedback.

I can't recall so much as a single readslist. In 150 pages of the game. I don't remember seeing a single ffery game where you didn't have one, yet I can't remember seeing a proper one from you. Just vague hints. Promises of it to come, and general leans.

[MastinSSK]

I put my vote on Mastin and then Nati directly appealed to me. It made no sense to me to push against their wagon by pushing onto a wagon they opposed that strongly.

This train of thought, for instance, really, REALLY doesn't make any sense to me.

What I liked about Orci's use of the cage fight yesterday was that when he came in he originally said he was considering putting me and nacho/Bork against each other. I said that would be ironic, that I thought I'd get lynched in that case and that I'd claim in case of silliness. He told me not to. Idk I liked the tone of that exchange.

I'll have to take a look at this, but I can buy that, 'specially if ffery's actually scum.

[MastinSSK]

I'm pretty sure I remember a reads list. I think I remember two of them. One before cage fight and one during.

I suppose. But still--I remember them being a prominent, dominant aspect of ffery's play as town.

Clearly conveying thoughts on all the players. (Which I don't really see.) And basically having a readslist summarizing that. That's been almost entirely absent from the game for the most part. And this is just from memory, so of course I could be misremembering, but if this holds any validity, then it is very, VERY largely concerning.

I haven't made a reads list. Why doesn't that bother you?

See above. Because honestly, I don't play with you enough to really have much expectations of what you would do. If you do or don't post readslists extremely often as town, I wouldn't know.

...I DO have expectations for ffery.

There's nothing

to

work with besides voting Mastin atm. Which we may do.

Again, this disregard for the song contest card is quite alarming.

We still have concerns about AP, though.

As is the lack of vote on AP.

Do you think he was roleblocked?

Why is nobody commenting on my Mac-rolestopped/BGed-Kagura theory?

[MastinSSK]

Okay. So given that I want to be the town leader, and doing something impulsive is really bad for that.
Given that I'm not really sure of this.
Given a whole boatload of factors.
This is probably a

Really Bad Idea

TM

.

But I kinda feel like placing it out there, at least for the moment.
VOTE: Breakfast with Stalin.

[MastinSSK]

It's ok for you to put your own reads ahead of theirs.

Except I'm actually really not, for the most part. You keep saying this, but run an iso of Rancid's latest iso. I know I did it earlier, and when I did it, I kinda remember them no longer scumreading F-16 or DesBRO so much as...shutting the two out as being lost causes for the town. Of course I could be remembering wrong, but that's what I remember.

And let's say that I am wrong. That they did in fact scumread both slots. I also said that I am not blindly following them as scumhunting gods--I am trusting them to be competent players, good, who had most (but not all) of the picture. And the rest of the picture, that they didn't have, I'm trying to figure out, for myself and using others.

but heaven forbid I think for myself.

There's a difference between thinking for yourself and entirely discarding the dead player. It's not the action, it's how and why the action was done (circumstances) that define it. If I was sure you were scum, I'd be pushing you. I'm voting you, sure, yeah, but I'm not pushing you at the moment, because I'm not. Because I'm not sure of my reasoning, of my logic. Because while there's a picture, I am not entirely convinced of it.

But the picture is there, and this attitude of yours is a large part of it. In this case, I invoke the word with no fear of it: I can't follow the trajectory of your posting. Normally, there is a connection between A and B and C in you; I'm not seeing it in this game. In this case, Rancid's read on me would be an A. Your unclear take on his alignment (itself a concern) would be B. Your approach to me would be C. When you're town, I can generally connect the dots. Here, I'm not. Not even remotely.

[MastinSSK]

Pedit: that feels like a bad vote

Well, yeah. Quite explicitly. But I felt like I had to throw it out there, anyway. It felt like something that needed to be said.

It probably won't stay there longer than a day or two at most, but I kinda really want to leave it out there for a while. Because in spite of being what feels like a really bad idea, it felt good to make in spite of that.

[MastinSSK]

Oh. Another concern about ffery I should bring up.

It is. He's trying to ride what he thinks is a momentum change. It won't go far.

Is heavily implying suspicion on me. Which is sort-of supported with some in-thread reasons. But...
-Again, why no vote?
-Where did her read change from nulltown?
-This sounds an awful lot like something overly-defensive and quite frankly a bit omgusy from her.

Again, nothing absolutely concrete, here. But there's a reason I'm so concerned about her being scum.

[MastinSSK]

(Since it's been a few pages since I brought it up, I might as well make a "Sure, why not?" callout on a scumteam and wild-mass-guess at it being {Stalin, AP, PV} with one of Clyton or Fox/Hound as the last*. Butyeah, put no stock into this, please. It's mainly off of their interactions and reading them and POE, but nothing truly logical.)

*Very outside chance of being either orc or Gyarados, with Gyarados as the more likely of these very-unlikely alternatives in this scumteam WMG.

[MastinSSK]

(Note that the Clyton or Fox/Hound distinction relies on who I'd be sheeping. Rancid, Fox/Hound. DesBRO and co? Clyton. If ignoring others and going purely off of myself, I'd trust my original instincts, seeing the town in Clyton and scum in Fox/Hound. Butyeah. Again. Silly callout is silly, and essentially just for potential bragging rights of "holy shit I was actually right" if it somehow ended up being accurate. )

[MastinSSK]

Oh. I'm entering into the same ffery spam I did about AP. But basically--
That thing I said about her being over-defensive would be best stated as her being more emotional than I would expect. Because I've never seen (at least that I can recall) ffery losing her cool. In every game I can recall, she's been the rational head of whatever hydra she was in, unless said event was of a much deeper personal level than it should be. (In which case she'd still have a fair chance of having been more rational. ) But here, her posting sounds like it has that, well...lack of control. Which I can't really recall seeing from a town-her.

I'm sure it exists. It'd surprise me if this was actually something of a tell for her. I've probably seen in some random hydra game or games of hers things that go against what I said, here. But it's still a large concern of mine anyway, since it IS what I feel. That this, well, burst of feelings isn't characteristic of her being town.

[MastinSSK]

Im wondering if Mastin is the cheekiest scum player and just trolling around the thread for fun.

*points to current avatar on mastin2*. Yes, as scum, I'm one of the cheekiest scumbags ever. Yes, I have a love of trolling as either alignment. (It's surprisingly addictive.) But there's no way you can possibly read that vote as being either.

[MastinSSK]

You have actually got to be kidding me. I call BWS out yesterday on being conservative with their vote and I get a whiteknight on them: "AP IS TRYING TO GET THEM OT MAKE A RASH VOTE" and now they are scummy for being conservative with their vote? Wow.

Right. And my opinion couldn't have changed in over half the games' worth of posts. (Seriously, how the fuck did you pull that up? That's literally half-way back in the fucking game. I certainly didn't even remember having made that accusation about you.)

That's the least of the problems with this quote sniping, though. I am not confident in Stalin being scum. I am not absolutely sure you are scum. Least of all am I explicitly tying your alignments together, even though I've seen interactions that make it possible you're both scum. (The reads are a good 95% separated from one another.) I'm pointing out concerns I have with her now. Among them was a lack of vote, yes. But while you also called out her lack of vote, tone is a biggie.

I asked about her lack of vote, pointing out my concern about them.
Your tone was derisive of her.

It's not the action, it's how and why the action was done. Circumstances, context, everything.

[MastinSSK]

Hey, guys. Will read the thread after posting, but first? Bear with me for a bit. You're about to get a dosage of Mastin logic, but I think it might actually be Mac's logic using Cabdlogic, too.

Mac's role was a MODIFIED rolestop-bodyguard. A bodyguard dies when protecting, and a rolestopper stops all actions on a player like the JK variant alien, but allows the target to still act. This normally INCLUDES nightkills, contrary to what AP says, because again, that's how the role is defined.
Bodyguard is redundant with rolestop, normally.
Thus, the modified.
So I have a theory.

Mac's ability was to stop any scum ability on a given player. If scum killed Mac's target, Mac would die, like a bodyguard. If scum targeted Mac's target with some other ability (let's say something like rolecop or sane cop [Hey, Cabd game; it could happen]), I'm theorizing that Mac would ROLESTOP that ability...but still die.

This sounds like a frighteningly-plausible role coming from Cabd, and makes total sense to me as being a possibility. I realize there's some slight logical leaps involved, but take that a little bit further, and you get my theory:
Mac used his ability on Kagura. A scum power targeted Kagura. Mac rolestopped it, at the cost of his own life.
In the mean time, scum jan-killed Rancid. And the vig either didn't/couldn't/chose not to kill, or also killed Rancid.

Yeah, I realize it might seem like there are a LOT of assumptions in here, and it's a little bit convoluted. But in my twisted mind, it makes perfect sense.

VOTE: AngryPidgeon.

[MastinSSK]

So as I'm reading through I start questioning my mastin-read because she's actually sounding pretty town and not making me feel all tingly inside like she was before, but then there's the problem of how did this change happen?

I grew up. That's what happened. My posting was always town. Always has been this game. But it was masked behind emotions. (For the record, emotions are in fact a bit of a towntell, but only marginally so. Because a scum me is more calculated and less concerned.)

No offense meant to anyone, but remember Vi's post in MD theory about there being basically no distinction between the children playing to us playing? Yes, well...it kinda...well, it's kinda true. Getting overly-emotionally-attached to things has dragged the entire game down, quite a lot. I was guilty of it. Everyone this game has been, and anyone who claims they haven't been is quite frankly deluding themselves, because you can just tell, with the way everyone has interacted with each other. Perhaps some players were less guilty than others, but no player has been not-guilty-at-all.

And basically the first step to maturity is realizing that there is a problem in having been childish. So I acknowledged it. And then? Then, I went about, and have been going about, fixing it. Because while I might not be the best person to be an adult, SOMEONE needs to be that adult, and that player might as well be me. Because the most insane players are the ones insisting they're sane, and the most sane player in the game is the player admitting she's insane.

I'm not going to wall at her but some of her statements about my town game are simply false and you would know that as well as anyone.

...Apparently not, since a fair amount of my concerns are things that DesBRO ironically brought up after I did.

My ongoing reaction to being scumread in death's diner was not in the least calm.

I read that game, ffery. I remember you being a whole heck of a lot more calm in there. The most I remember is slight agitation at a player or two. Granted, my memory of the game is about as old as the game itself, but still, point remains.

I'm kinda fighting that tendency to dismiss players who misread me now because I know you usually have good reads. You and pie both thinking Mastin is scum meant that I came into day 2 willing to vote her.

For someone accusing me of being hypocritical...
...This sure is a load of hypocrisy. You're saying you're fighting the tendency to dismiss players misreading you, who normally have good reads...yet you're doing exactly that by dismissing me, when I've done reach-outs to you. I've listed concerns about you. They weren't points in a case against you. They were concerns. And I reached out about it. I said "this is what I'm seeing". I said that that's what I was worried about. I reached out to you, in more ways than one, your reads, your reasoning, and to address my concerns.

You've dismissed all of that in favor of... "Mastin is scum, making blatantly wrong points about me in an attempt to mislynch me"?

I'm trying to understand you, ffery. I'm trying to figure you out. But for someone claiming to be transparent...you're being a fucking oblique as possible.

[MastinSSK]

Kagura is either an Asectic or something similar.

That depends; I need to figure out the context of something first, though I'm not sure if I do if I should elaborate on it.

I did say it was Mastinlogic, though. What did you think Mastinlogic entailed?

[MastinSSK]

I read that game, ffery. I remember you being a whole heck of a lot more calm in there. The most I remember is slight agitation at a player or two. Granted, my memory of the game is about as old as the game itself, but still, point remains.

(In fact, I was reading it fairly intimately as the game progressed, though because of other factors, my memory of it isn't exactly the most objective.)

[MastinSSK]

3 Yggdra Union (giffy and pieguyn) - Pie was so happy that we didn't die n1 because we were gonna be angry if that happened.

Assume Rancid and myself town. Why would you die?

I'm just gonna call this slot town. I can do that. Right? I mean, I didn't read majority of their posts, but I'm still allowed to do that, right?

Well,

yeah

, you can, but it's a bad idea when their alignment is a subject of intense debate.

------Leaning Town--------------------------------
2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV) -

because my neighbor said so

I think his reachout post were pretty town
12 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado) - BRO is town.

For Fox/Hound, which ones?
For DesBRO--why only leaning town, then, and not in your town pile?

4 orcinus_theoriginal - I didn't really read his post. I've been planning to do some stuff on him but I got lazy. For now, he can stay here for the role.

If you want to townread orc, have it be on how he USED the role and his posting and interactions, but never for the role itself. (Orc's null to me right now. Still sorting him.)

[MastinSSK]

So I realized a couple of things recently.

-Fox/Hound asked what sparked the change in my attitude. Now, I thought it was because of the thoughts I had, but while all of what I said was true, I think what made it stick, what made it possible, was that between meds and therapy, my mental health is slightly improving.

-Really random, but I know why AP's casting a suspicious eye on me but not voting me. It's really simple. To get complete, total, absolute revenge, a set of criteria must be met:

• I must be a BP. (Check.)
  
• I must be obvtown. (Check.)
  
• I must have good (perhaps perfect) reads. (...Check? I'm working on it.)
  
• I must have players supporting me be nightkilled. (Check.)
  
• I must have players that have had heated debates against me live. (Check.)
  
• I must be the top poster or among them. (Check.)
  
• I must have had a screaming, shouting match. (Check.)
  
• I must be a voice of reason in spite of the above. (Check.)
  
• I must have been aggressive. (Check.)
  
• I must have also held arrogance that I was not getting lynched, but be bewildered and slightly concerned at it happening. (Check and sorta-check, but good enough.)

...But mostly?

• It must be D3. (Thus, the lack of push from him today.)
  
• Bonus points if he enters a 1v1 with me, especially citing his role and him getting 'roleblocked' N1.

(First realization serious. Second one only semi-so.)

/content to come in a bit.

[MastinSSK]

Sheep, I've seen ffery be more transparent than this as well, but I've incorrectly scumread her at least once for similar reasons, and so I don't think it's a good reason to scumread her, especially when they've been pretty town otherwise imo (a few Beli posts in particular from memory).

Ok, I've decided.

Vote: MastinSSK

As always Ceph is free to change it, but I think this is ok. The only other person I could see myself being willing to lynch right now is Cupcake.

This sounds really, really legitimate by tone, but I'm really, really concerned about the mindset, here; it doesn't read as town. (No, not the vote. That's anti-town, yeah, but can come from town.) I wish I could pin down exactly what here feels 'off'; I had a brief flash in my head that said, "this aspect was scum thinking", but by the time I hit the quote button, the reason for the thought was gone. :/ I dunno, best guess on what pinged me would be something like having-cake-and-eating-it-too.
...Actually, I think I found it. It's going for an 'okay' vote rather than a vote-on-scum.

I can squint and make out a cupcake/mastinssk team, maybe. I dunno.

1. Why not?

Why not die when Rancid and myself are both town?

...Do I need to add periods to slow down that sentence so that the important bits are emphasized?

2. Um both?

I was looking for specifics. Not which head, but things about them in general that look town and maybe specific posts to highlight that behavior.

Also, the town pile are for nigh-confirmed/confirmed town list. Fery gets to stay there as an honorary spot.

1: Why isn't DesBRO considered nigh-confirmed town, 2: and why is ffery an honorary spot on there?

If anything, I'd think it should be vice-versa; while nothing CONFIRMS DesBRO, they should be honorary conftown anyway, whereas if you're townreading ffery (I'm not), it'd be in the probably town section. I'm not seeing the logic, here.

Here's where I am at: I'd still bet the farm on Yggrdra, Titan, and JSU. I took a look at Dark Age of the Law Mafia to see PV's scum-posting and it looks very different. In particular, his posting doesn't resonate to me the way it does here which makes me more certain about his affiliation. I am similarly confident about the Fox and the Hound every time DV posts. RedGyarados still feels town although I am not sure if I agree with Ffery's depiction of NotScience meta but then again, we look at it in very different ways. Cupcake is still a pretty strong town read. I have weaker townleans on Kagura, Orc, and Breakfast, null on Clyton. The game still leads right back to MastinSSK and AngryPidgeon. Happy to see Mastin getting lynched today. I want to hear if anyone has any other thoughts before moving forward.

I'm willing to gamble on Yggdra, Titan, and DespBRO, yes. But PV I simply am not sure about.

You could be correct that he could be town, but I'm really doubting that, especially since the extent of my townlist (which he is outside) puts him heavily in the POE territory. And while DV's posting does have that town tone, and I'm strongly considering Fox/Hound being town (still null overall), there are some serious concerns about their overall mindset. Who they're pushing, and more importantly the WHY for the push.

And though your townread on Kagura is justified, and you're probably right about one of orc/Stalin being town, and Clyton's a null read of mine...

...Your scumlist is still too small. Let's assume for a fraction of a second that Rancid was scum. That'd still leave three scum left. Let's also assume for a fraction of a second that Rancid/Mastin vs. AP was "scum theater". (No.) You think that a scumteam of Rancid, Mastin, AP, and Clyton would be possible?
Furthermore, given that theoretical scumteam:
You think that we (possessing daytalk, no less) decide to bus the shit out of one another, when Rancid and AP both have past history of reading me correctly, and vice-versa, meaning that if we mutually townread each other, it would be a nigh-unstoppable 3-player bloc? And also interact with Clyton the way we have, basically 'pinning' him as a reserve candidate?

It doesn't add up. My plans as scum might be masterful, they might be beautifully crafted, they might and often do span the entire course of the game...
...But if there's one thing about my plans that is consistent is that as scum, they are also gorgeously

simple

. The more convoluted, contrived plans violate every piece of essence-de-scuMastin. Because complicated plans? Are complicated, and in a game BUILT on randomness and unexpectedness...they are near-guaranteed to fail. And while it's true that my backup plans have backup plans...they all stem from the same basic, simple, easily-implemented (and most importantly, easily-

adjusted

) path that I build from my mind.

How do you think things went in the mafia QT? "Oh, hey, Rancid, we're scum together. Let's buddy one another and attack Titan and F-16. They'll never expect scum to go so hard against them so soon. Oh, and Clyton and Hawk? No offense, but if you don't bring your A-game, I'm going to bus your asses.
*AP replaces in*
...Awesomesauce. Hey, AP, we should totally crossbus each other. Scum theater would make the game far more confusing for everyone involved, and whoever won would end up looking better as a result of that. Unfortunately, you'll probably lose, since Rancid and I kinda have this thing together, and, well, two against one. But it'll look impressive all the same!"
"Umm...that's probably a bad idea."
*I blatantly ignore AP saying it's a bad idea*
"MASTIN, STOP."
*I don't*
"Okay, FINE. We'll do it your way. Just don't expect me to let up."
"Trust me, this will work!"
"Yeah, but you're discarding me. We could always force a mislynch in the last minute."
"True, true. Nobody would suspect we're scum distancing, not after that intense fight we just had, only to switch at the last minute onto town. But who, and how?" (There's basically no way for you to think we're both scum and not think we-as-scum would be well aware people would notice.)
"How 'bout PV?"
"Sure, but I don't think I can lead into it."
"I can!"

Like. I'm trying to make that dialog as realistic as I can. To be as close to what a scum us would do in this hypothetical scenario, and, well...it just doesn't fit. In a different scumteam, maybe something similar to this I could say. But the guiding factor of my scumplay is that it is contextually-dependent, on the circumstances. And given an AP-me scumteam, I NEVER would discard it, especially not for some weak-ass wifomy thing that all it'd take is "lol, scum theater" to blow apart.

...Oh, and speaking of plans. That's something that is also a founding fundamental aspect of my scum play. I have a plan. I ALWAYS have a plan as scum. And if I get a chance to execute my plan, it never fails. Perhaps it falls short of working; I didn't win Attack on Titan in spite of my plan. But my plan got us DAMN close, because I laid out a clear path to victory, which got us to 4p mylo easily enough. My plan relied on us buddying each other. My plan relied on scum surviving. My plan relied on us living, but having JUST enough distance, JUST enough of a gap between us, that IF we were to fall, that we'd have a chance. My lynch was sad, but ultimately, I had specifically avoided giving the town information. I played sub-par as scum to avoid giving away my plan. (Also kinda did that in Pick Your Poison.) So when I was lynched, it didn't lead back to my buddies. Pasch (in large part thanks to me) had a similar outcome--he got lynched, but didn't condemn BRO.

My plan was to have us all win...but my backup plan was to have it so that IF I died, and IF Pasch died, that BROseidon had an excellent chance at winning the game...which he did. He almost pulled it off. It was what I had intended from the beginning of my posting. I set it up instantly, and made only minimal adjusting as the game progressed.

Anything Goes was the same way--my plan was to have us all defend each other, as a scumbloc-appearing-as-townbloc. It didn't work, but it certainly helped us on our path to victory. I set out a plan, from the very beginning, dictating how things would do. And, yes, there were a couple of deviations (e.g. not killing DGB early, using our scum powers differently than I had intended), but for the most part, the plan I laid out at the beginning was uncannily accurate to what happened in the game, perfectly predicting the flow of events if I executed my intended plan--while I did augment my original plan with further plans throughout the game, the original plan still held that guideline to victory.

They were simple. Largely player-dependent, having done analysis on them. Knowing their strengths and weaknesses as players. (Note that in Attack on Titan, I didn't do this immediately--I did it only when I was settled down and had been more exposed to each member.) And knowing the overall vibe, of both the scumteam and the town. And with my proposed plan (a simple plan detailed elaborately but easily summed up by one sentence: "hardcore buddy each other"), leading to victory...which it did.

...What's my master plan this game?
Spam the town to death in scum theater, hoping that apathy would take hold and that nothing I did would have consequences and nobody would bother to think about the possibility of it being scum theater? That's not a plan. That's an action. Which is part of the plan. Again, that's the simplest way I can think of saying it. Playing the best advocate for that train of thought as I can, simplifying it as much as I can to the most realistic portrayal that I can...and even then...it simply doesn't mesh well.

It's not my style in general, and certainly not my style for this game. I KNOW players. I KNOW what strings to pull in order to manipulate them into doing what I want them to do. That's the essence of my scumplay, too. Not manipulating them into thinking I'm town. (Though that's often a part of it, admittedly.) Of them doing what I direct them to do, with their actions ultimately benefiting me.


...That was a little more long-winded than I had intended it to be. But basically, the point I was getting at:
It really, really seems like you're pulling random things together, and not thinking about whether they make sense together or not. (Which is, by the way, what players actually need to catch the real scuMastin's plans. A head for the bigger-picture stuff.)

I would strongly urge you to reconsider your thoughts. ESPECIALLY since I am advocating a lynch on AP right now rather than PV. But more than that, your townreads basically HAVE to have scum in them. Even if Rancid were to be scum (they're not, they are oh SO not scum), it'd be a requirement.

Are you guys going to want my notes to be posted

Very much so, yes.

I'd actually be interested in seeing Kagura's thoughts.

See, sure. Listen, no. Because Kagura's going to tell you I'm town.

[MastinSSK]

It's not my style in general, and certainly not my style for this game.

By the way, point on this that I'd also like to bring up (mostly at pie). As scum, when town players have meltdowns, I explicitly post messages in the scum QT essentially saying, "I feel kinda bad for them. <3 *playerwhomelteddown*." I did it in Anything Goes, feeling sorry for BROseidon and AP being right about the entire scumteam but ultimately ignored, and in-thread, I didn't bother to post anything about it after that. I didn't attack their character, their person, anything, and really didn't call them wrong. All I did was call them scum.

Same sort of thing happened in Chain of Command, too. Wisdom nailed the scumteam D2, but got mislynched. I called him scum, and got that mislynch, but I felt terrible for it because he was right and was mislynched for it. In-thread, same basic deal. I did not call him something like, I dunno, "a worthless piece of shit", who was a terrible player that shouldn't play. Those kinds of attacks go against the very fundamentals of my scum honor code, because I respect my worthy opponents. I misdirect the town away from their correct results, of course, because I need to win, still. But I never would stoop to such a low as to say something along those lines as scum.

As scum? I will take the whole thing calmly, for the most part. They're right, so when they're right? I find it very difficult to pretend otherwise. I take it casually. I will be fairly relaxed about the whole thing. I might invoke a raised voice if it's convenient, but during the whole ordeal, I am doing one of two things: trying to get them mislynched, or trying to get them to stop lynching me. But I don't do so with backhanded tactics. I'm upfront about it, attacking them as being scum, or if I'm townreading them, begging them to reconsider.

That's my scumplay under pressure.

Know what my townplay is under pressure? I could give you a long list of things done in various town games like house party, illustrate various language differences, maybe demonstrate it by talking about its tie to my instinctive-omgus to players-I-thought-wouldn't-misread-me-but-are, yet I think there's one sentence that perfectly above all treats me having been under pressure:
"WHAT THE FUCKING HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?"

(And now watch people point out that I'm being calm and that it makes me scum. Regrettably, I have no defense against that other than that they'd be wrong, to look at the rest of the game, and that I'm trying to take a more mature approach, all of which as a defense...kinda sucks. )

I am going to say this one more time, please stop spamming the thread. You are making the game harder to sift through.

You intend on mislynching me. I don't have a choice.

I'd actually very much like to hear from Kagura, Orc, Clyton, and Titan.

Clyton and Titan are busy, and have a QT to talk in. We'll get the results later. Kagura I don't need to hear from and you shouldn't, either; you know what I'm saying about them is true. You're right about Orc, though.

[MastinSSK]

Mastin, humor me what would you do if you were scum, then in this playerlist? Give me a brief outline on how you would evaluate the players, who you kill, who you would try to mislynch etc assuming the game played out the way it did D1.

Sure thing, but I'm about to take a shower. I'll be back in ~1 hour (Yes, I take hour long-showers;

you

try washing hair that long and doing it in less time. ), and will write it then. (Well, I might respond to posts made after this one first, but will begin immediately after that.)

[MastinSSK]

Slight disclaimer, though:
Me detailing my thoughts as scum is going to be imperfect, since, well. I don't have scumbuddies. I don't know who they are. So I won't be able to paint a precise picture.

[MastinSSK]

Back a little early. It's morning showers that take an hour; this one took fifteen minutes less since I'm actually awake.

Before I begin, though, another note on the "WHAT THE FUCKING HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?" bit that's in my towngames and not in my scumgames. I realized in the shower that it actually is basically a universal truth to my towngames, and has been even when I was a VI.

I mean, just in the shower, I thought of examples. A newbie game I IC'd as scum, my attitude towards scumreads on me in-thread was "meh" and out-of-thread was, "WOW!" (Wisdom was one, and Vic--who now has a Rising Star nom--was another.) My reaction to suspicion on me as a town IC was one F-16 is all too familiar with, since he was the primary target, alongside another player.
I was emotionally compromised, sure, yeah, and it was a newbie game so it wasn't as blatant, but if you read that game, you'd see my description of the scumreads on me is accurate.

In Game of Champions, the werewolf superstar of their site was someone I had pegged as having a similar playstyle to that of my own, so when their thoughts contradicted my own and they scumread me, my reaction was essentially just that: "WHAT THE FUCKING HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?"

In JFSF Mafia 2, as a town Joat with a cop-guilty, ABR pushed my mislynch over the Magua-result, and while I had previously townread him, I got paranoia and thought, "WHAT THE FUCKING HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?" (There were other players that game I had that same thought about, too, but don't remember. Maybe DGB?)

In House Party, I had that attitude towards ETL, BROseidon, Desperado, Jake, AND Titus, if memory serves me. Where I essentially said, explicitly, "It's most certainly NOT on my end, so...WHAT THE FUCKING HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?"

And reminiscing about my games as a VI, where I always thought the problem was on their end rather than mine...I launched into long-winded rants when being mislynched about, "WHAT THE FREAKIN' HECK IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?" (I didn't use curse words back then. )
And I don't remember those kinds of rants from my scumgames. The closest I can remember is Emerald City, which was multiscum (thus, I was playing much like town). I don't think any of my scumgames really had it. Oh, I got ticked off, alright, but I don't think it was nearly the same in my towngames.

I'm sure that if I bothered to put in the effort, that tell would be a constant, throughout all my games, as town having that reaction and as scum, not having it.
...In fact, that might be it. THE golden holy grail of reading Mastin. A scum Mastin can put up a good act, and might get ticked off about shitty reasons for being scumread, but cannot. Physically, literally. Cannot get ticked off at the actual scumread itself. Because it's ultimately right. Frustrating, sure. Wishing the scumread could be shook, sure. But ultimately still impressed, even if annoyed.
I think that's the description of my scumplay more than any other. It captures the artificial feeling. It also describes "lack of whimsy", because a scum me can't react in a "WHAT THE FUCKING HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?" (whimsy) way to others, holding that deep respect. And it's also why a scum me tends to be more logical--because I can't think like that, to have that emotion, I also am driven to compensate by looking better in other ways, logic a strong factor.

That's it. It might manifest in different ways each scumgame. It certainly manifests in different ways each towngame. But more than any other thing...I can tell: that's it. And knowing it, you'd think that I could manipulate it. But I can't. Because I know myself, and know my morals. I know how I think, I know that I have that conscience, that humanity, creating a psychological block preventing me from nullifying the tell.
I'm sure as scum that I'll get much, much better at hiding the tell, and faking its counterpart. I'm sure that I'll find ways to obscure it, work around it, misdirect people into thinking that the tell says I'm town. That's a simple piece of scum play, to get better at mimicking your town play, by understanding its factors and being able to replicate them, after all, in a convincing enough matter that it's 99% the same (not quite 100%--you need the 1% to account for playing-to-scum-wincon).
But the tell will never cease to exist.

I don't know how I feel about the fact that Mastin ceasing to tunnel on me happened pretty much right after I decided to stop tunneling on her, while we remain in the scum group (possibly so we can be moved back if I changed my mind).

Because the way you went to reconsider your read on me looked town, and me beginning to be in the "oh, shit, I've fucked up" stage of maturing (recognizing that I've made mistakes), I began to rethink that read. (Still am, btw.) So you're right that you directly triggered the read change.

Part of me has a hard time believing the massive level of noise coming from Mastin can actually be scum.

That actually ties into the recognition of my tell, believe it or not. As scum, I won't be spamming the shit out of the thread, specifically because if I'm in a hole, I need to make sure I get out of it and turn it around. (Unless of course I want to obscure something from the town. Then drowning them in noise is a legitimate tactic.) I'll have a back-and-forth with players scumreading me, but it's focused on exactly the factors I described: getting them to change their read on me, or trying to mislynch them. I pursue no other options as scum.

As town, I have no clue whether the person attacking me is scum. So I'm pulling double-duty, potentially triple-duty, in that I not only have to try and get them off, not only have to figure out their alignment, but ALSO if I feel them scum try and push that. And the results are amplified exponentially by the closeness of the person to me plus the number of people with this attitude, making my posting rate skyrocket. I've had scumgames be plenty active, and towngames be lackluster, but only to a certain point. After crossing that, you can tell. Scumgames have a focus on achieving a specific goal, funneling information (this is basically one of the largest aspects of my scumgame: controlling the flow of info so that it says what I want it to say), which is often most helpful with reduced activity, whereas towngames have no focus at all, other than taking what essentially amounts to shots in the dark and hoping they hit scum.

Also, as much as I hate this kind of logic, I feel as though sorting through the rest of the game will become less impossible with less noise.

The noise from my slot has exponentially decreased since page three in my iso began, because I'm beginning to focus on factors. Basically every post of mine (aside from some fluff) contains content that is relevant and often new, and is pushing slowly in a specific direction. (Towards AP.)

Soyeah, will be doing F-16's request now.

[MastinSSK]

(...Though you'd never know I was back early since that post took half an hour to type. )

[MastinSSK]

Note that the opinions listed below are basically my best guess at what I would have said as scum, at the time. Obviously, things are different now, butyeah.

First off, I'd run through the playerlist, listing things about them.

1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
^Something like, "Dunno 'bout bork, but Nacho? Nacho needs to die. Probably not immediately--I'm competent enough that short-term, I

can

fool him. But only short-term. I cannot maintain that ruse throughout the whole game. Not even remotely close. And when that townread turns to a scumread...it's all over. Because while we're both charismatic players...he's always been ahead of me on that curb. Last time, it didn't work well for me; this time, won't work any better. Soyeah, nightkill. Probably N1 or N2."

2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
^Not exactly sure, but it'd probably be something like this. "I don't really know either of their towngames that well. I know DV's a fairly-rounded player, but not particularly spectacular; I remember him being mediocre, not particularly good. Cephrir, I've basically only seen as scum. I know he's competent as scum, but that can probably be turned against him, a-la AFB-style."

3 Yukari Yakumo
^Well, I know it's GIF now, but speaking from a scum-me, I likely wouldn't, since I don't really pay attention to that sort of thing. It'd be something like, "Dunno who they are, but they look mislynchable." If a scumbuddy told me it was GIF, then I'd probably clarify. "Oh. Well, then. In that case? Don't really remember much of him. Probably still a fairly easy mislynch, since what I've seen of GIF is that he's kinda lurkish, meaning that in a game filled with more charismatic players, he'll probably be in the bottom. In a different game, sure, yeah, maybe he'd be a top scumhunter, but here...not so much."

4 orcinus_theoriginal
^Likely akin to, "orc's not a particularly noteworthy player. He's in games, kinda just there, and while he's okay, he's not particularly memorable. Additionally, he just won our last game, so he can probably be mislynched off of paranoia."

5 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane)
^Honestly, not sure what I'd say as scum. Best guess is something like this. "Dunno about SAD, but Tammy? We want her on our good side. She gets on our bad side, we're probably screwed. She's a strong player, logical and convincing. If there weren't other nightkills that had higher priority, I'd probably suggest nightkilling her off of just policy alone." Or something akin to that, since it'd be likely similar to my AoT analysis, just...well, taking the results of AoT and the current playerlist into account.

6 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman and natirasha)
^Easy. "KILL IT. KILL IT WITH *insert theme-appropriate mafia kill flavor here*. I cannot fool zMuffinman. Literally, can NOT. He WILL catch me, and the best we can do is hope that he doesn't catch you three. I want him dead immediately, since the longer he lives, the more dangerous he will become. And Natirasha's no slouch, either! Nati might not be as good at reading me, specifically, as zMuff is, but helps to focus zMuff a LOT. Like, zMuff by himself is good, but kinda scatterbrained. zMuff with Nati keeps the good, but gets focused. There's no player here that I fear more than zMuff, and with Nati there to augment (rather than weaken) him, they need to die."

8 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli)
^Also a little bit harder to pin down for sure. But the basic would probably be something like this, I guess. "ffery's a fairly competent scumhunter, who is logical, reasonable, and decent at working with others. She's never been mislynched that I can think of, and add in those charisma and analytical skills, and she alone makes the hydra formidable. Don't really remember Beli that well, but unless he drags her down (I doubt it), my analysis hasn't changed--in a different game, our first nightkill. This game, we'll have to hope she's off-base for long enough to get to her, since there's other priorities that I want dead first." I might reference the ffery-Nacho dynamic, too, but I'm not sure how I would or where I would.

ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling)
^Also easy. I don't remember the exact start date of the game, so I'm not sure when my victory over him in Malakittens's modded game was. If I hadn't won there, yet, I wouldn't make it explicit, but implicit. If I had, then it'd basically be saying, "Don't know about dice, but ProHawk? He's an easy mislynch. He's not exactly a strong scumhunter, and lacks in charisma, making him easy to target. Though, that might be bad, since it'll also mean he's likely to get the 'mac treatment', in that anyone knowing he's an easy mislynch is likely to defend him."

10 Carbon Fiber (FourTrouble and F16)
^Another easy one. "F-16 is a dangerously-competent scumhunter, who is decently charismatic. I'm his teacher, and trust me: you don't want to fuck with him. He is NOT to be underestimated. If we can get on his good side, then we can keep him around for a while, but otherwise, we need him dead."

11 Lord Business
^Also easy. "Dunno who LB is; I don't recognize the name. That makes them a high wildcard. They could be a scumhunting god, they could be absolutely and utterly incompetent. I simply don't know. Be on guard for them being dangerous, especially in a role madness game. But all other factors equal, they're probably going to end up mislynched, so plan accordingly."

12 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado)
^I legitimately don't have a clue what I'd say about them as scum. Like. I'm trying to force something, here. I can fake a scum narrative on a number of things fairly decently. (A lot of the above fits fairly well, though I'm sure the actual scum me would be much more long-winded and take several posts to have it all, rather than having it all in one.) But I have absolutely nothing. Oh, I'd say something about them, no doubt. I always comment on all the players when I comment on them, and I comment on the players basically every game as scum, ESPECIALLY given daychat. But I'm coming up empty.

Like. I don't have anything. At all. Not even a fake thing. Last game I tried this fake-scum-list on, I encountered a similar problem, in that there was a player who I wasn't sure what I'd say as scum, but threw together 'probably something referencing this or that or whatnot', even though I knew that probably wasn't actually true. But I'm drawing a blank even on that. I really can't think about what I'd say. I mean, I suppose as scum, it's possible that means I'd say something like, "I don't know what to say", but I'd have something. Maybe "don't underestimate them, but also don't overestimate them"? Maybe in the potential mislynch pile? I really have no clue. The majority of my time in the shower was thinking about this, and I still don't have it.

13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
^Another easy one. "While both players are decent, they are not strong, especially relevant to the rest of this playerlist. They are not a threat. They lack charisma, and aren't very strong scumhunters. Annoyingly, notscience will probably obvtown himself such that they're impossible to mislynch, and if he does, don't bother trying; you'll look like scum for the attempt. But if he doesn't, mislynch away. They might possess a mild danger to some other scumteam, but in this game with this playerbase, not so much."

14 Cupcake Panda
^You'd think that I'd go on about Katsuki, but no, I didn't know Cupcake Panda was Kats, so it'd be another "Dunno, so wildcard" type read. I imagine if my scumbuddies clarified, though, it'd become, "Oh. In that case...Katsuki is likely to lurk as town. Probably not a good idea to push a mislynch of, since Kats will become seen as town and pushing there is hella-scummy. However, Katsuki provides us with perfect vig-bait. Certainly not a threat."

15 PeregrineV
^A bit tougher, but overall, I'd say something like this, I suppose. "PV's strength lies in the late-game. If he gets that far, is analysis is dangerously right-on-the-money. Before then, however, he's, well, he's kinda a lurker. Push at your own risk. If you get a mislynch, it's good, but know that if he lives too long, he'll switch from mislynch-bait into deadly scumhunter. Which he's more inclined to do when heavily pressured."

16 Clyton
^Another simple, "Dunno, could be dangerous" type read. I'm not sure what the exact wording would be, and it'd also requiring me to go back to that time thinking as scum and being aware of Clyton. Like, now I know Clyton's experienced elsewhere but plays on here in a way that isn't best said as being a newb, in spite of being new. If I knew that, I'd have a different answer than if I thought he was a newb or if I thought him an alt, but I can't remember my knowledge level and even if I could, my knowledge level as town is different than as scum.

17 Mac
^A scum-me's treatment of Mac is...complex. I know Mac's a fairly competent player, who is easily defended against being mislynched by those who know him, but I also know that he's a bit on the lurkish side and can garner suspicion. So my read there would likely factor those in, and essentially say, "Basically the only player here that I know who's still best defined as a wildcard; might be worth pushing, but don't be surprised if it backfires."


All of those would form into a general strategy, I'm sure. I'm not precisely sure what the specifics would be. Again, it largely depends on who my scumbuddies would be. But I think my general strategy as scum from the onset would be something akin to,
"This is going to be a tough game. There are a lot of town players here who know each other fairly intimately. So we'll win it by creating paranoia. We can't let townblocs form; we have to let the town tear itself apart. Which also means that we have to not give them hints as to who we are. I know, it's predictable. People have gotten used to it from me, making invoking it dangerous. But I really, really think that we can NOT bus, here. We need to be making essentially our own bloc, because if we succeed, then we'll make the strongest force in the game be the scum players together.

It's a huge gamble, especially in role madness. But my experience with role madness as scum has been that bussing has gone very badly. The scum's roles are meant to interfere with the town's roles, meaning we need each and every single one of them alive as long as possible to screw with the town's strengths and break them up during the night just as much as during the day. The town won't be working together, so if the scum ARE working together, it'll give us the edge."

Meaning that as scum, I'd focus on townreading my scumbuddies and buddying them, while sabotaging efforts for town to work with town. Though there are elements in my play that can be taken that way, it most certainly doesn't fit that mold overall, because my play hasn't been to a plan; my play has been to my own tune.


WHEN AP REPLACED IN:
Assuming AP as town?
"Oh, fuck. Change in plans. We're killing AP N1. NO EXCEPTIONS. I don't give a damn what you think about others. zMuffinman's SOMEHOW misreading me right now, but also being scumread; I'd rather risk facing that read turning around than face AP. We do NOT want him figuring me out. zMuffinman can (normally) read me well, but kinda sucks at figuring out my scumbuddies. AP, on the other hand, has the accuracy of zMuffinman...but thinks almost exactly like I do. Meaning that he WILL figure our plans out. We need him dead. Immediately. His read may not be as strong as others, but he needs to die pronto."

Assuming AP as scum?
"Fuck yeah, game's won. AP, I'm here this game. At my absolute 100%. Give it your all, and we can STEAMROLL this town." No more words need be spoken if I was scum with AP, since when I'm in the game, we have this synchronization that is basically impossible to beat.

WHEN PIE REPLACED IN:
...There probably wouldn't be so much as a ping. I'd be focused on other factors. Like, I suppose I can figure out what a scum-me choosing to focus on pie would say, but I simply think that, bluntly, a scum-me wouldn't really pay attention to that at all.

I can't track the N1 results, since I haven't a damn clue what actually happened. I can tell you I wouldn't janitor Rancid, but that's about all.


There's probably more I could add, but this is as good as a scum-picture me as I can generate given that I'm not actually scum, don't actually have the full picture, and thus, don't actually have the full answers for the full interactions I'd make. It's definitely different from what I've done thusfar in the game, though.

[MastinSSK]

Is this referring to me as town, scum or both?

The post is explicitly my guess at what a scum-me would be thinking, which means town.

I seriously want to lynch mastin for that last post because it felt like "lets potshot everyone on the playerlist so they start infighting because they think others actually think of them like that"

Oh no you fucking don't. I made that post specifically because I was asked to, to demonstrate what a scum me would have said at the beginning of the game and strategized for. No fucking shit it's "potshots on everyone", that's because it's working from the fucking perspective of me being a fucking scumbag and mapping a path to victory, a path which explicitly involves starting some fucking infighting with them thinking of each other like that. That's the fucking point.

Like, in 3930, all he had to say was "you don't think like me. Try to think like me." and it probably would've said the same thing.

I did the concise thing.

It got me voted.

I realize that excessive walling is bad. That's why I'm trying to keep the posting I'm doing productive. But people aren't listening to my shorter posts, and are listening to my longer ones, at least listening to them more. Because frankly, wallposting is me. In my default state, I am repetitive and say a few things in a lot of words. So silencing it ends up silencing me. The best I can do is try and make them fluent, so that while the wall exists, people can read it all fairly easily.

Now, stop scumreading me and place trust in me, and my tune will change, I can guarantee you. I place trust in other players, so the only things I really ask about are things that I don't quite get and want to get. But when they don't trust me, then I elaborate as if they have asked and will continue to ask until there's a clear answer, if that makes sense. It's how my brain is wired. If you placed trust in me, and only wondered about some of my reads, then those reads would be the only things I talked about, and I'd do so fairly clearly and precisely, since I was answering specifics from a person I trust, and basically leave it at that.

[MastinSSK]

MastinSSK (5): Just Sheep Us, PeregrineV, Red Gyarados, Yggdra Union, The Fox and the Hound

Right, should probably ping SSK again. And warn him that there's probably at least two scum off the wagon. (Potentially--though not probably, by this point--three.)

[MastinSSK]

Might as well paraphrase the ping I gave SSK, though it's nothing you haven't seen. We're the lead wagon a fraction of the way into the day...again. That Rancid was janitored and people are being stupid by thinking that was anything but scum's doing and that Rancid was anything but town.
That Kats is town, AP's scum, Stalin's probably scum, orc's null, Clyton's null, and that F-16 is town but is at least making the effort to analyze.

[MastinSSK]

I will lynch one of: mastin, ap, desbro

Look at BROseidon's meltdown again, Tammy.

That does

not

come from scum. Period.

AP, though... *points to vote*

I don't understand why mastin's read to bet the game on town me.

Combination of factors. Feeling you were town. Trusting other players on you being town. Doubting just about every damn playing in the game and saying, "Fuck it, there has to be SOME players in here I won't change my reads on", and when thinking about it, you were among those that I told myself, "Yeah. I'll risk it."

Mastin, regarding your reads: I think there are a few significant differences from what you posted in Anything Goes, especially you didn't say much about Brian Skies being a threat here while you held him in high regard there. Also, I have trouble believing that you barely noticed Pieguyn's entry into the game. For the most part, I guess I can buy it.

Well, I'd say you're wrong, but you're probably right. Now that I think about it, I probably would have a more extensive section. It'd likely mention, "Different game, might be a threat, this game, not a threat." Maybe "his talent has kinda stagnated, but could easily skyrocket with incentive; don't give him it", or something to that effect. (Just an observation, Brian Skies--I noted your talent early, but I haven't seen you grow a lot since then.) As for pie, well, yeah. I had other things on my mind. I changed my read to town, but other than that, I simply paid no attention; I doubt a scum me would act any differently.

But the other problem I have is that you created an imaginary dialogue with you and AP saying that you and Rancid buddying hard as scum while bussing Hawk is unlikely for you to do as scum as well as the you-AP back and forth but is it really?

Not sure I'm understanding. Unlikely for me to do the back-and-forth with AP as scum? Fuck yes it is. You saw how AP and I as scum play. We buddy each other hardcore. Maybe if one of us is doing something stupid, we might be inclined to distance, but we're not going to bus each other, like...ever.

A pseudo-townbloc consisting of scum.

Pretty lousy townbloc if two of its members are at each others' throats. Continuously.

How does it fit in as a scum role attribute in a game this size with 4 scum?

(1) Bulletproof. Pretty damn power scum ability. (2) I gain it back at nine players. (Which as scum is even more incentive to keep my three scumbuddies alive, btw.) With four scum alive, that means I can lylo mislynch a player.

"...Umm...shouldn't you be arguing

against

it being a scum ability?"

Well, you asked, and I answered. That's how it could be a scum ability. I already know it's not. Cabd game. All roleclaims are basically null. It's their usage defining alignment, for the most part. And my play's probably not that of a scum BP. (I'm...I'm not actually really sure how a scum BP would play. Probably be the one committing the kills, barring ninjas/strongmen on the scumteam, as a fancy goon. But because it's not a role I've been before, I don't really know how to handle it.)

To clarify, Nacho last posted yesterday morning saying that he thought scum was among MastinSSK, AP, Clyton, Orc, and PV.

......

oh but there was one thing that interested me. during yesterday's cagefight, LB claimed pretty readily. Did anyone else realize that Breakfast never claimed during that affair? That seems like it would have been the natural impetus for people to do.

No need if you're obvtown...
...And if need be, you've got scumbuddies backing you up.

[MastinSSK]

So right now, am not exactly the most focused on mafia I could be. Kinda have something else on my mind; I finally finished mentally composing a tune, one which I've had stuck in my head and have been trying to figure out how to handle for months now. And am repeating it over and over again so I don't lose it.
(I just need to figure out how to actually compose it. It has a couple of bass guitars. One, low, which provides a constant beat throughout the song. Another, middle, which provides support for the main instruments going. There's also whatever the main instrument would be; haven't figured that out. And a snare, but not sure what type of snare, for support. And a keyboard, also supporting. Then a high string instrument, for a string solo. And a supporting string instrument.
And then the bridge throws in trumpets and a flute, the trumpets playing slowly and dominating, with the flutes playing fastly yet supporting.
...And I have absolutely zero musical background, meaning that I haven't the slightest idea how I'm going to pull any of this off. But the tune's there, and I love it. Kinda sorta sounds like it could be battle music for a video game, but it's a strong piece even by itself.)

But I did want to randomly note that I kinda meant it earlier when I made the comment about my role. It's the best role I could have, because if I catch all the scum, there's nothing they can do about it. A little charisma here, a little obvtown there to stop me from getting mislynched, and if I am on-base, there's literally not a damn thing they can do to stop me from obliterating them. A quite literal scumhunting god. No nightkill, no misdirection, just having to do the best they can to work damage control and pray to the mafia gods that I can be stopped.

The worst part of my role, however, is that once you're at the top...the only way to go from there is down. It's fully possible that at one point or another, I've had the entirety of the scumteam pinned down. But because I can't die, because I'm constantly paranoid and re-evaluating everything, that means that if I got things right, then I'm likely to go downhill and progressively get things more and more wrong. If I was a normal town player, I could get nightkilled with those high-accuracy reads. Since I'm not, well...scum let me live, to be potentially far more destructive to the town.

It does run both ways, though. The best part of the worst part is that it can also run the other way, with me having been sucking, but because of my immortality, being allowed to live long enough to not suck and turn things around. And the 'worst' part of the best part of my role is that it probably influenced how the scum treated my slot, a trait that I think can be tracked. Maybe not right now, but eventually, we can figure out how players have been treating it, and what reaction is more likely to be scum and why. (I do have thoughts on the matter, but I'm not sure whether I should share them.)

So without further ado...

The most obvious one that I think is most likely is what I was pushing for most of the game: Mastin, Rancid, and AP are scum with an unknown fourth member who fooled me decently well that isn't you, BRO-Desp, Yggdra, RG, Fox, PV, or Orc.

A third one involves getting behind Mastin and Rancid completely. I am not sure I can do this but if I do, I am still seeing AP as a scum that Mastin/Rancid caught. The other scum are apparently the low-hanging fruit like PV, maybe Orc. But I have a superstrong townread on PV so I am not sure I buy it. I could still buy Mastin/Rancid town being wrong about PV.

I read this post, but everything in it seems to be saying, "All these players could be scum. Mastin/Rancid included. They could also all be town. Mastin/Rancid included. But in all scenarios, AP is scum."

I'm reading the post and while you deal with me being town in some of them, AP is town in none of them. Correct?

Also I'm on mastinssk's ISO and it's 3 pages long and I'm willing to bet it's 2/3 wall so can I skip it or will you guys flip your shit if I do

I would much prefer you read it. If for no other reason, then because I'm the damn leading wagon and because I say a lot of good things in there, 'specially the third page.

re Mastin: Yeah, I'm really thinking Mastin is town now, even though I want her not to be for the sake of my ego.

Oi!
Just because you null-reading me caused me null-reading you, don't think that townreading me will suddenly make me townread you!

Why

am I now a townread?

[MastinSSK]

Oh. Also:

Mod: V/LA Friday through Sunday.

Pacific Northwest Square Dance Festival, up in Canada this year. Langley, British Columbia, more specifically. Don't think I'll be able to play at all during that time. (Never know. It could happen. 'Specially if I skip out on sleep Friday night. Butyeah.)

[MastinSSK]

Okay so this game went to a stall...

That's what happens when players have me as the lead wagon but I run out of things to say. Because the scum lurk waiting for me to get mislynched, and the town aren't willing to engage others.

I...don't know what to think about Mastin or AP. Mastin sometimes gives me the feeling of hpaptl but everything is just so over the top.

If you think this is HPAPTL, you should be lynching AP.

I'd probably be okay with that lynch just because it's been such a distraction and it might help to clear up rancid's alignment.

Rancid's death if not janned would have been clearing up my alignment. Not vice-versa. That he WAS janned is all the proof you need it was by scum, too. And for people who keep saying I'm a distraction, they keep on seeming to...lose focus when I'm not talking. (As above.) Seriously, dips in activity this game are directly related to how relevant I am. Extremely, active. Irrelevant, inactive.

A lynch on me removes the one fucking player the scum 100% cannot get rid of, and gives you two isoes that nobody except players-VERY-nightkillable is willing to sift through (Rancid's and my own) for cases we've been pushing since day fucking one...which they wouldn't bother blindly sheeping anyway, trusting their own fucking instincts over the instincts of both dead town players 'cause that's how town players think. Making the true accomplishment in lynching me...

...Furthering scum's wincon.

I want notscience/brian skies to do something so I can stop being worried about them. I thought they were going to start doing stuff this weekend, but that fizzled. I was nacho/bork to do something so I can stop being worried about them. Ffery has said some things that I'd be pretty shocked if it came from scum. I'd be surprised if you were scum. Clyton and I claimed to each other, and the use of his role is compatible with his behavior. Scum will know my role if he's scum, but if that's the case it's really no big deal. I don't really get the super strong town read on PV. I'm more than a little concerned about Orci, and right now I'm a little worried that Nacho orchestrated that lynch on Orci yesterday knowing that he would self-govern. [/quote] Aside from the fferyread, you're saying a lot of the same things as me, you know.

Also, now his proven gladiator type fight makes me concerned about Rancid. I mean I get it there can be multiple roles and lolcabd game so I'm not going to outguess the mod, but would there be two gladiator-type town roles?

You've got two gladiator-type roles in the game.
One of them is run up on D1, forced to claim it, and use it.
The other ends up nightkilled N1.

Ignore lolcabd game. In general, use fucking common sense. Which is the scum claim of the two? Assuming a scum gladiator, it's orcinus, not Rancid.

[MastinSSK]

BRO meltdowns throw me back to the bauss game where he and AP were scum

mastin's eccentrics makes me lean scum on that slot

i'm trying not to think about the other gladiator

Holy mother of sheeping-Titan.

[MastinSSK]

One of them is run up on D1, forced to claim it, and use it.
The other ends up nightkilled N1.

Ignore lolcabd game. In general, use fucking common sense. Which is the scum claim of the two? Assuming a scum gladiator, it's orcinus, not Rancid.

ahhhhhhhh i see

VOTE: mastinssk

1v1 me

You've been a nullread. Not a scumread. But assuming a scum gladiator. Not a chance in fucking hell would it be Rancid.

[MastinSSK]

MastinSSK (5): Just Sheep Us, PeregrineV, Red Gyarados, Yggdra Union,

The Fox and the Hound

,

orcinus_theoriginal

Not Voting (5): Kagura, AngryPidgeon, Carbon Fiber, Clyton, Breakfast With Stalin,

I realize that Fox/Hound jumped off, but I can't help but feel that--at least within those names--there's not going to be more than two scum off my wagon. (Could be, with Fox/Hound having jumped off.) That's not some arbitrary half-on, half-off; that's off of who the names are. AP's scum off the wagon, but F-16 is not and I trust Clyton to not be, either. So aside from Nacho-ffery-AP (lolno), you've gotten a guarantee of 2 scum having been on my wagon.

I'm still defaulting to 2 or 3. That between PV, Fox/Hound (now off), and orcinus (outside of Red Gyarados), we've got 2-3 scum.
AP's scum regardless, though.

[MastinSSK]

i'm trying not to think about the other gladiator

Holy mother of sheeping-Titan.[/quote]?[/quote] Your post was directly sheeping every fucking thing Tammy JUST said.

You've been a nullread. Not a scumread. But assuming a scum gladiator. Not a chance in fucking hell would it be Rancid.

The first two sentences are lies. And why would you assume a scum gladiator?

Scumread at times, sure. But overall nullread. Mostly in, but some out, 'specially recently. And I'm not assuming a scum gladiator. I was addressing Tammy's assumption OF a scum gladiator. And that IF there is a scum gladiator (still not positive), it sure as fuck isn't Rancid.

But I have a PROVEN role
PROVEN role
so it doesn't fucking matter when I claimed, does it?

Yes, it does. Dayvigging me in the middle of D1 proves the role of dayvig. Doesn't make the player town, though. *coughcoughanyonetownreadingtitus'sslotshouldabeenashamedcough*

[MastinSSK]

...I'm distracted. Quote tags are hard.

[MastinSSK]

And governor is a town role.

Bluntly, no.

I've seen a shitload of scum governors; I've not encountered a town one.

Yeah, I know they exist; the role is supposed to be alignment-null. But my experience has been scum governors. ESPECIALLY self-governing.

[MastinSSK]

So you have a towntowntown group.

Yes, so did I.

Two of their members died.

I'd be willing to bet ten "I'll listen to your theories" on them both insisting I'm town and raging.
Ranting.
Shouting expletives.
At how people are ignoring their fucking townreads on me.

[MastinSSK]

Hi! Cabd game, there's more to it than x is a town role.

I've been a scum self-governor, and mattp was a scum self governor in Baltomeet.

Is it sad that the person everyone else is calling obvtown is basically agreeing with nearly everything I'm saying and yet they obvtown her yet are voting me?

[MastinSSK]

You said that rancid's claim was townier than mine, and that if one of us was scum, then it would be me.

Yes. For a myriad of different reasons. Play included.

Your evidence for this was that rancid's claim was townier than mine because I claimed when I was being run up

Yes. Mainly because I was appealing to the train of thought being used to paint a gladiator as scummy and point out why Rancid wasn't scummy from the circumstances of his claim.

But my role is PROVEN. So the fact that I claimed while being run up is completely irrelevant to my actual alignment

Read Kalimar getting run up in Gundamn Seed. Run up and claimed--and proved vig on me. Proven role != proven alignment, merely that the role is proven. There's zero doubt in my mind Rancid's claim was real, nor your claim. There's zero doubt Rancid was town for me.

There IS doubt that YOU are town.

But it's just that, doubt, not absolute disbelief.

[MastinSSK]

basically agreeing with nearly everything I'm saying
one post
what the fuck?

It goes back further than that.
Almost everything Tammy has said recently is something that I said before her, earlier in the thread.

The difference is that people ignored me and aren't ignoring her.

Thus, sad.

[MastinSSK]

i know that proven role does not equal proven alignment
but you are saying THAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF MY CLAIM IS SCUMMIER THAN THE CIRCUMSTANCE OF RANCID'S CLAIM
WHICH MAKES NO SENSE

Except that you're trying to have cake while eating it. The circumstances of your claim were desperation, and a need to use the role to 'prove' yourself. Rancid, not so much.

Thus, of the two, Rancid's was townier.

It's a trivial argument overall, though. Since I'm not even sure of a scum gladiator. (I suspect as much, though.)

[MastinSSK]

Mastin - when I say lolcabd game it means I'm not about to outguess what he would or wouldn't do.

Which is what I was saying?

The circumstances of your claim were desperation, and a need to use the role to 'prove' yourself.

So how the actual fuck does this make me scum

It doesn't. It makes you slightly scummy, and compared to Rancid's claim, a whole different world.

For instance...

Rancid claimed his ability early-on; I don't really recall you interacting with him at all. You weren't at all interested in interacting with a player with a similar role to your own?

VOTE: kagura
For now. Mastin still looks toen if I ignore my crippling paranoia. Orcinus argument with mastin looks upset in a town way. Like I'm following his train of thought and emotionally it resonates.

Yggdra is null leaning towards "uh how the he'll are ppl townreading them?". I disliked the writing orci off as town for a claim when people jg Ave been talking all game about how roles do not mean anything in this game

I'm seriously tempted to just go, "Kagura's alignment aside, this is just scumposting", but I realize that's not exactly the most productive thing to say. The kagura vote is sheeping Tammy, wagoning popular opinion as a placeholder vote. He's V/LA, but hasn't put effort into sorting me, especially bad given his role. Then, there's defending orc as being town, for shaky reasons at best...
...And then there's the hypocrisy in calling out Yggdra for townreading orc on similar reasons. The Yggdra read overall simply sucks, too.

Note to self: read 167 bro posts

Similarly bad, cast-doubting on BROseidon.

I really am not buying that f16 thinks tunneling and omgusing are a reason to strongly town read someone either.

As is this, only doubly so.

I already said that I believe the role is not alignment indicative.

The role wasn't what I was asking about. I was asking about its usage.

I believe Rancid is most likely town up to his death, and my reads on him won't develop because he is dead.

I was more asking about the trust you admitted you have.

Orc's role does somewhat clash but I'm scumreading Rancid so I am not overly worried about it.

Fuck it. I need to write the Ballad of Tales,
In honor of my fallen pirate friends.
I said I'd join their crew, that windforce gale,
So I need to do this, 'til my end.

(This isn't the ballad, not even close.
I failed to get the motive last time,
Even though I specialize in rhyme.
After all, I'm easily distracted, you know.)

I have been moving the game forward by collaborating with townreads and making sure we lynch one of Mastin/AP today.

Funny, so have I. (Admittedly, I've gotten distracted by others. But he's always been one of my focuses.)

I really don't want this to turn into yet another noisy day where Mastin and AP make a spectacle of themselves and we lynch another lurker.

The problem is that you're trying to get the best of both worlds. Either you encourage a Mastin vs. AP fight or you discourage it. You can't vie for the lynch of one of us and expect the day to night have noise.

[MastinSSK]

*Not have noise.

Butyeah. You can't say you don't want MastinVsAP noise, while saying the lynch should be one of us. 'Cause an attempt to lynch one of us, quite explicitly, can and will, cause noise. Now, I can say I won't, and I can assure you that I really, really mean it, that I'm not lying when I say that I wouldn't. But, well...just 'cause I make the promise doesn't mean I'd actually be able to keep it. I know myself well enough to tell that I wouldn't be able to keep it, that my emotions would get in the way.

[MastinSSK]

"I guess I could also reach out to orcinus and PV, in spite of my scumreads on them, but aside from, "Hi, I think you're both scum", I can't really think of anything to discuss (not argue) with them other than that, because while I'm open to being wrong about my read, I don't see how I would be."
Mastin, 3 pages later (and I haven't showed up in these three pages): "Scumread at times, sure. But overall nullread"
what the fuck

Yeah, and? You're just proving my point, nullscumread.

You claimed that the circumstance of my claim made me scummier than rancid.

Yes. Your claim was scummier than Rancid's.

Not that I didn't interact with rancid.

Interacting with Rancid (rather, lack thereof) is part of the claim, orc.

YOU SAID THAT ME CLAIMING WHEN I WAS BEING RUN UP MAKES ME MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM OUT OF ME AND RANCID.

Yes. Because Rancid was upfront about their ability, and had posting that made perfect sense. Doesn't mean that you are scum. Just that of the two, you are the far, far, FAR more likely player to

be

scum.

Thus, my overall nullscum read.

[MastinSSK]

Btw, thought of something this morning when driving, need to fact-check. A reason scum might want me dead is that Lord Business will return to the game. I forget when LB said exactly, but if LB's back tomorrow, it has the potential to clear me. Depending on how his role works, fully possible that he has full interactions with all the other dead people right now. And they'd be screaming I'm town, right now. Meaning that if I were to live long enough for LB to come back, then LB would be able to (in a way nobody else could) scream about how fucking moronic it is to think anything other than myself and Rancid both being town. (Need to factcheck, though.)

mastin when you say someone is so scum that you don't even bother to interact with them
that is not a fucking nullread

Which would be true if that's what I said. But it wasn't. I said I didn't know what I could say to you, other than that I had a scumread on you at the time. Not that I wasn't going to bother interacting--quite the opposite, I was trying to figure out a way TO interact.

Is there a reason I should think a scumrole would exist that can punish town for catching scum by not only stopping the scum-lynch but throwing a town player into it instead making it a mislynch?

Aside from Cabd-game being Cabd-game? Yeah. Look up Judge, Jury, and Executioner for a similar mechanic, but throughout the whole game rather than a one-time role. The town could catch one scum (and did), but without two scum as voted, couldn't win the game.

Mastin's posts from last night are rubbing me the wrong way.

Join the club. Apparently the entire rest of the fucking town is.

(Helpful hint about me. A scum-me doesn't really tick people off. A scum me is nice. Friendly. Likes to be your ally and buddy-buddy. My play this game...isn't that. Not even remotely.)

[MastinSSK]

It depends entirely on who you choose to buddy. I recall that scum-you is obnoxious to people you think you can lynch. Adding this to my list of stuff to research.

I buddy everyone, even the people I try to mislynch. I only turn obnoxious as a defensive mechanism. I explained this already.

Like, you can look at basically any scumgame of mine. I'll vote them, and still be all polite. As just the two most recent examples, Malakittens's game (modded as Kit) had me be polite to everyone, except Squirrel Girl whose tell on me was BS. I was calling them scum, but I did so fairly politely all things considered. But a stronger example is the lylo alone in Paranoia (modded by Antihero)--I hardcore. HARDcore. Attacked MTD out of the gate...but I treated the matter respectfully and with tact; it paid off, because MTD did

not

vote me, and even attacked shos. I hardcore attacked shos...who did

not

vote me for it. Because I kept that politeness overall.

And kept it throughout the whole game.

The most recently-completed towngame example contrasting is House Party...where I most certainly was not diplomatic by any stretch of the imagination during any period of the game. The closest I got to being diplomatic? D2, and during the latter half of D3 where my posts were heavily-tinted with (justified) spite and a fair amount of snark. Maybe there's a "you're wrong" in there that was done with tact, but overall, not buddy-buddy even remotely; entirely abrasive.

[MastinSSK]

yeah, like anything goes

oh wait, we're not allowed to reference that game anymore. i forgot. evidently so did mastin.

And what you're yet again forgetting is that Anything Goes had me legitimately scumread you, thus the hostility.

Guess what?

On all future days I played in?

I was buddy-buddy diplomatic. Towards Mac. Towards PA. Towards Brian Skies. You can see it quite clearly in my posting. When I was scum, the only time I broke the buddy-buddy was when I had a legitimate scumread, thus, was legitimately scumhunting, and thus...was acting like town.

[MastinSSK]

By the way, couldn't find anything about LB having a return date. But I did find other things.

I called AP from early on, people just weren't that interested in listening.

LB had a scumread on AP. If I'm remotely close to accurate on who LB is,

this is not trivial; LB has extensive experience with AP

.

So much for a no lynch huh orcinus?

A comment that, again, makes me deeply concerned about orcinus's alignment.

I think mastins hydra is town. I've seen SSK as scum and he wasn't vey involved. Maybe t was a bad game, and I know mastin has been leading this.

But with mastin when she replaced in to too many heads she seemed far more concerned wit buddying and bucking the trend of others opinions. Here she seems to have just attacked, and stubbornly so.

But please feel free to point to why she might be scum.

Also not trivial, given that if I'm remotely correct, LB has extensive experience with myself as well

. Furthermore, know what this means?

All three dead players.
All fucking three.
From lynch to nightkill.
Even if Rancid somehow wasn't town. (They are.)
All of them.

Had me as a fucking townread.

Players claiming to be doing NKA and to some extent VCA are liars if they don't take that into consideration for their read on me. 'Cause that?
Is not some trivial fucking statistic. That is extremely relevant to the whole core of the game.

[MastinSSK]

Maybe you have a blind spot about how your posts are taken at times.

At times, yes. Especially as town.

Not consistently, though. This is one thing that anyone playing with me in scumgames will have figured out long, long ago: I have such a self-awareness as scum that basically nothing escapes my attention. I know everything about myself. Including how I'm perceived. In fact, that is my strength as a scum player. The thing making me as dangerous as I am. Because I know how others will see me, and am able to manipulate that to my advantage, in ways that they can never predict.

Heck! Even if they KNOW this fact about me. Even if they fucking know that I can manipulate their perception to my advantage and are on-guard for it. Even if they're fully aware that I can do that. The thing that makes me truly dangerous as scum? Is that I know that they know, and can manipulate their knowledge of my competency. (This is a rare gift, and only two players have thusfar proven they can 100% overcome it: zMuffinman and AP. [zMuffinman is better at ignoring my misdirection, but not at picking up my plans. AP is better at picking up on my actual plan, in spite of falling for my misdirection. Both have the accuracy, and reasons why they're dangerous BEYOND the accuracy.] Most scum players if truly caught by another player sort-of have a meltdown. They know they're caught, for all the right reasons, and there's no defense. Me? No, I turn that into my weapon, and let the town players serve my agenda with them still convinced they've pinned me down.) Circumstantial awareness is my gift. Being in-tune with the gamestate, as it was, is, and shall be. That's why I win scumgames. Because I know how my posts are taken.

[MastinSSK]

...Not that it's going to hold particularly large amount of weight, but another aspect of the difference between me:
A town-me rambles in-game, and might rant post-game.
A scum-me rants in-game, but will ramble post-game.

In practical terms, this means a scum me typically doesn't talk about the scum me, instead choosing to talk about why my play is the town-me. (In spite of it not being.)
A town me talks about the scum me all the time, but doesn't really bother to say why my play isn't the scum me that much. If it's done at all, it's done as a side-note, whereas when scum, it's the central point of the rant.

[MastinSSK]

Hear ye, hear ye, gather 'round!
There be much entertainment abound!
Let me guide ye on a ship and sail,
As I narrate to ye the Ballad of Tales!

It starts with an entrance full of trolling,
That posted by me dearest of Kings.
While the miller claim was something to hate,
It's far too bold to be scum out of the gate.

He was there to claim his true role,
One he couldn't help but mix in some troll.
But look for the motive, of which he had,
And you see none but good, not a hint of bad.

It is not a role that they would create,
Since who the blazes fakes a gladiate?!?
Thus the question is merely of his side,
And I say it be town with a great pride.

He was open, he didn't hold it back,
And he explained his actions, not reversing tracks.
The claim could have been swept under the rug,
But it wasn't, deception none.

You may ask, "but they said hated miller",
But read that post a little bit clearer.
They hinted at the falsities that were there,
While saying they were serious, no dare.

And look at the timing, those brave men!
They said it unprompted, on page thirty-seven!
And you'll note that while they answered about the truth,
They kept silent about their lies, not letting them loose.

You might ask how that could possibly be town,
But I refer you to any game where fakeclaims go down.
Town players will be vague and refuse to fill the details,
Whereas scum players have the answers, having plans not to fail.

Thus their efforts can be clearly shown
To be in a town mindset that's well-known.
As much as it is a bad precedence for me,
The mason claim is an example from House Party.

I could have made up details about the claim,
But decided not to, because that'd be lame.
If I was scum, though, I assure you I'd be all-in,
Because taking back a fakeclaim is guaranteed to blow the win.

Rancid's mind may not be the same as mine,
But we are similar, two of the same kind.
You know this logic does hold great truth,
But let's discard his role and begin anew.

Let's start with my accuracy,
How when in the game, he I can read.
As town or as scum, I never have failed,
Even if in apathy he wasn't nailed.

It runs both ways, I will happily admit,
His reads on me aren't shit.
So know that there is no chance that the other we could fool,
That perfect accuracy reduced to being the other's tool.

So yes we must by virtue share an alignment,
And which it is should be the only question.
Later is the time to detail why I joined his crew,
Because now is the time to see N1, and realize truth.

F-16 when you lynch us and we flip town will you remember that mastin is town? Or will you sit there with your mouth firmly attached to the scum's dick still, because the amount of willful suspension you are showing is exactly why I had you down as scum for as long as I did.

I present to you this little tidbit,
Which may seem insignificant.
Until you remember what happened,
And that they ended up jan'd.

You must also keep in your minds about Rancid,
That in addition to gladiating, there's something else he did:
His role if left alive and unblocked the first night,
Would clear not only him, but also the person he was to fight.

Because his role would be confirmed as existing,
And so too would be confirmed the age of the one combatting.
Thus the role would prove to be a double-threat,
And scum NOT killing him would be left with regret.

But I am running low on my precious time,
But use this break to search, and you'll find:
What I say right now holds to it great truth,
So stay tuned as I begin prepping chapter two.

(This is not the entire ballad. This is the intro and first chapter. How many chapters it takes to convey the whole story, I dunno. Stay tuned!)

[MastinSSK]

(And, yes. There's a point to this. Just wait for me to finish. Will take a while, though, since this is essentially summarizing each player and every aspect about them. Rancid's important enough that he took too much time for me to tackle in one sitting.)

[MastinSSK]

I'm riding solo.
I was going to vote mastin, but I suddenly skimmed the last two pages (although don't plan on reading much of it until later) and happened upon things that pretty much trashed my resolve.

VOTE: Nachomamma8.

Although: Mastin, is there any other game where you were simply "too mean" to be scum?

Basically all of my recent games, from Game of Champions to JFSF to House Party. Mod is Dead Fire/Ice had it. House Party had it. I lost my shit in Newbie 1456. It's subtle, but there was a clear hostility in Xenosaga. Chosen Mafia, a huge influence memory-wise on my play this game, was another example of the hostility. It's not as snappy as later games, in part because my mental health wasn't going strongly downhill. The last Street Racers game had it in spades, where I was shouting and swearing and cursing. The Fall kinda sorta had it, even during the game, in spite of the apathy. Gundamn Seed (in spite of my self-inflicted restriction AND early expiration) most certainly had it, too. It was also strongly present in Death Note Mafia. Touhou Imperishable Night had it slightly, too. Even in Antihero Reboot, you could see telltale signs of it. It was similarly present in Xenogears, especially fighting town players.

The closest game I have to not having it is the previous Tales game, and that was more apathy than anything else, but it was still there, 'specially at times in lylo. I suppose it technically wasn't really that present in Hard Boiled, either, but that's mainly thanks to my early expiration date more than anything else. Same for 546's Fire/Ice, since dead N1 = no chance. I suppose 285 Time Distortion would be another, since my head wasn't fully in the game (it was mainly talah) and the game was short--but what little presence I had still showed it (admittedly, a scumgame of mine had a similar trend, 1530: Geology).


Book of Shadows didn't have it. (Scum.) Paranoia didn't have it. (Scum.) Resistance didn't have it. (Scum.) LesMis didn't have it, nor did Chain of Command. (Although Chain of Command did have a passionate attack against Wisdom, it was out of necessity, and was all show.) 1465: Rubber Duck Affair also definitely didn't have it. Nor did Too Many Heads. The closest scum game to having it was Attack on Titan, with my initial aggression against Tammy, but even that was not the same. And going back to Anything Goes--there was a brief period of hostility in my play, D3. All other times, I was not. Because on D3, that scumread was legitimate...meaning I wasn't playing like scum at all.

As just a few of the more recent examples.

[MastinSSK]

I was going to vote mastin, but I suddenly skimmed the last two pages (although don't plan on reading much of it until later) and happened upon things that pretty much trashed my resolve.

Although: Mastin, is there any other game where you were simply "too mean" to be scum?

Before I get into the rest of the stuff, let me just point out this. Aside from my lack of paranoia on Nacho and assuring others that Nacho would be townreading me, there is literally nothing.
NOTHING.

In my posting.

That I can buy.
Even remotely.

A town Nacho not townreading. Those two things (which are arguably the same thing) are literally the only damn thing in my play that could possibly have pinged Nacho on me, at all. Yet this? This says otherwise. That he's either nulling me or deeply concerning (even scumreading) me. Which quite frankly, I don't buy. From BROseidon who (after this game) will have a Fate-reading-RECK card on me, sure, yeah, I can buy that type of misread. From Nacho?

Fuck no, I won't. That he doesn't have the townread is itself a red flag.

But even then. Let's assume. Just for a fraction of a second. That somehow. He thinks this could possibly. Even remotely. Be a scum me. Being willing to take that to a vote? Especially when I'm the lead wagon? Also not a town-Nacho behavior. ESPECIALLY with a lack of interaction before-hand! Nacho showing concern for me as town? Interacts with me. If he is sure I'm scum after that interaction, vote. Never a moment before.

But let's say that he did. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt, there.
There's the fact that he says the last two pages of my spewing has given him doubt-on-scumread. Which is bullshit, since the last two pages of me has been quite frankly the most nulled content I've been posting in a long time. The towniest aspects in the posting are things that have existed not only for the entirety of P3 of my iso, not only the entirety of today, but ALSO of my play throughout the game. So the reason for not voting me isn't valid, either.

Lack of correct read. Lack of interaction. Lack of proper reasoning, of the right chain of thought.

That is not a town Nacho. The bit at the end is thrown in as essentially an after-thought. Something like that, asked earlier and throughout the game? Yeah, town-him. Right now? No.

[MastinSSK]

I'm trying to widen my focus and talk to other players about things other than AP/Mastin, but Mastin doesn't make that easy.

Hey, I'm talking to literally every player and trying to gather info and trying to figure things out and trying to get people working together, but I have focus for the most part. Mostly on AP, but right now, Nacho really needs pressure.

Like not understanding how much of my play in Death's Diner was unfortunately anger-based during day 1 and beyond, and how a town player strongly pushing a wrong and worse - unstated meta case so I couldn't correct it or even understand where the wrongness originated - wound up dead at my earliest convenience - night 2.

(Said town player you vigged, who wasn't scumreading you at the time of their death and made reach-outs to you, by the way. Like I said, I read the game.)

The other thing I don't like about Mastin is the level of noise she's at times adding to the game.

Noise mostly generated by people...well, complaining about noise, bluntly. If people stopped saying I was being noisy and actually listened to what I was saying, then they'd have much, much better ideas of where I've come from.

I don't trust her view of the game because I know she's wrong in her read of me and I suspect she may be wrong about other players.

Okay, who am I wrong about? Who am I right about? I'm not going to be utterly incompetent and be wrong about everything, nor a scumhunting god right about everything.

The thing about neighborhoods and what I've experienced in this game is that when you have ideas and opinions that are strongly held and people in your neighborhood share it, they all end up re-inforcing and strengthening those same ideas.

The problem is, if the idea wasn't correct, you're reinforcing something that's wrong.

There has been a lot of noise about them. It is a recurring pattern I see game after game whenever there are charismatic scum players involved. People talk and talk about them for most of the day and then scramble around deadline trying to find an alternative lynch.

For the record, noise about me has always been generated as town and nearly never generated as scum when I'm a lynch candidate. Look at how little discussion there was in Attack on Titan about my alignment. Look how much discussion there was in, saaaaaaaaay, that open game bork linked to at one point, about my alignment when I was town.

Charismatic players generate noise, period. But my experience has been that scum players counterintuitively generate

less

noise, and my theory on that is that they have a greater focus than town charismatic players.

One more thing - you are falling into a pattern of trusting the reads of people who agree with you and not trusting the reads of those that you disagree with.

...And you're not?

[MastinSSK]

Noise is a very useful scum tactic, but one that is often overlooked. Mastin knows this, but claiming she is using a scum tactic to get scum to NK him is a very illogical argument.

And we get a jump in logic here, so I'm just going to stop it there. Noise is not a scum tactic, to begin with. Noise may be a byproduct of scum tactics (typically, trolling when caught as scum), but is never the tactic itself. If anything, scum don't like noise more than town don't. This sounds weird, but let me put it to you this way.

Noise drowns out points. It drowns out content.

What if scum make good points? If their content is good?

You really think they want that good posting lost in the noise?

Fuck no they don't. They want it clear. So they keep the noise down. They focus it. Sure, if they think their content is bad, noise. Spam. Drown out the bad. But if they think they have valid points? They're going to keep the fucking noise down so that the valid points come out. And if you think that a scum me doesn't think I raise good points? If you think a scum-Rancid doesn't think they make good points? You can go straight to hell, because that goes against literally every fucking piece of evidence about our fundamental properties as scum players. (E.g. Rancid's arrogant, I know myself to be more logical as scum.)

Second of all, while I agree noise is anti-town, I never. NEVER. Would intentionally use an anti-town tactic as scum. EVER. I vowed that when I vowed not to wallpost as scum to gain an advantage. (Because wallposting as I did was anti-town. It was advantageous to a scum-me more than a town-me as a result, and I swore not to use it as a tactic.)

Third jump, my noise (while being noise) served a specific purpose; it was targeted at getting the scum players to nightkill me. That was what it revolved around. I kinda explained it, but Rancid also explained it the best; all it takes to understand is thinking like me and knowing how my mind works and what to me 'drawing the nightkill' actually involves doing. Because this?

Being super-town and catching scum is a way better method to ensure scum kill you

Is EXACTLY what I was doing, at least attempting to do.

PV goes back to being solid scum, btw.

[MastinSSK]

So.

Clyton's probably town.
Fuck it, I'm going to call Fox/Hound town.
I still think there's one scum and one town in Stalin/orc, but can't tell which.
I'm still scumreading AP and PV.
And now? Now I'm thinking Nacho could be scum, too.

Need to think about that, though. AP/PV/Nacho/orc, AP/PV/Nacho/Stalin, in either case, I'm not entirely sure this is how they play the game.

[MastinSSK]

1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
4 orcinus_theoriginal
8 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli)
9 AngryPidgeon 9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling)
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
15 PeregrineV

*grumble, grumble*
The name of the six change, that I have six does not. Realized that I eliminated Red Gyarados a bit hastily. I have reasons for thinking they're town and reasons for thinking they might be scum, thus their presence. Still trying to figure it out, but that might be a bit more spam than needed, 'specially since working on the Ballad of Tales will help with this and people responding to things I've said can probably already help on that front.

I might be getting distracted by the shiney in eliminating Fox/Hound here and having my vote on Nacho (and if so, zMuff/Nati, I do apologize), but this is something that I need to pursue right here and now to figure out. It can't wait.

[MastinSSK]

I made the reach-outs IIRC. Repeatedly.

Well, you're probably right. My memory of games is weaker. But I also remember her reaching out in return, and not rejecting your reach-outs. Best metaphor I can think of is that you reached out and she reached out but that you were reaching out with a brick wall in front of you, stretching your arms out, on tippy toes, to barely touch each others' fingers.

You read the game, but you took the wrong lessons away from it, apparently.

Well, I admit that I wasn't that focused on the game after the first few days. I read the game more in-depth during that time, but at the end, was more skimming.

That or you're intentionally trying to twist my meta.

Like hell I would. I say something about a past game, you can bet your ass I believe what I'm saying about that past game. It doesn't mean I'm remembering *correctly*, but lying as scum is just flat-out plain stupid, since it's a lie that I can be easily caught in.

your scumreads are apparently Nacho/orcinus/me/AP.

Throw in PV and remove EITHER orcinus OR yourself from the list, and not both nor neither. But more or less, yeah.

Which means that you think Nacho bussed orcinus with the intention of "forcing" him to governate.

Didn't really think about that, really. I'm not exactly sure it can be made out to be anything. Nacho's a smart enough player to pull a magnificent bus, especially with planning before-hand. He also had other options, since he could easily force the lynch onto another player or force a no-lynch if he chose. It's an unusual choice as scum, but one that I can easily see being made. I'm not flat-out saying it did, though; you're right. It quite easily could be from them not both being scum. Orcscum, Nachoscum, neitherscum, any work, and are simpler overall theories. And it's making me think that the orc-Nacho team is wrong, at the very least.

...Which you might think is casting suspicion onto you. And vaguely it is, but I'm also not discarding the possibility of Red Gyarados being scum, for a very specific ~reason~ that I'm really not sure if I should elaborate on or not.

AP as scum at this point is almost an afterthought from what I can tell.

No, AP as scum is the default option, where I park my vote when not exploring other alternatives. I'll lynch him in a heartbeat. Right now, I'm going after Nacho, to see what comes from that.

[MastinSSK]

Just want to point out:
PV's misunderstanding of the role working means that if PV is scum, chances of players being neighborized having been scum takes a nosedive.

[MastinSSK]

2. So you say. But, as scum, you would lie. So, you could be lying now.

LIKE HELL I WOULD.
BEST FUCKING WEAPON AS SCUM IS THE TRUTH.
I preach this.
TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
In all my scumgames.
In all my towngames, for that matter.
In basically every fucking MD thread I create.

Lying isn't pro-scum; lying is pro-stupidity.

3. So you thought the best way to use your BP status was to spam the thread?

Again a massive, MASSIVE misrep of my point. The way I thought was the best way to draw the scum's nightkill was to tick them off, to be a pain in their asses, by being up their noses, by hounding them, by bothering them, and shutting them down.

See, this is town-me.

Like hell it is. A town-you? A town you is logical, analytical, and sharp. Also, funny. A town-you starts out slowly but gets stronger.
A scum-you? Is full of misreps and snark. Starts out strongly and slowly lets the cracks show.

Not the best description of the difference between your townplay and your scumplay. It's a bit difficult to lock down given real-life contributors and general lurkiness vs. not-lurking in games, but it's the best description I can give.

[MastinSSK]

What do you think I'm misunderstanding?

My mistake. Thought you were saying something you weren't, about how F-16's role operates.

The gobbledygook you've spewed today is enough for me not to take you seriously anyway.

Would you take it seriously as a scum candidate, though?

I'm actually pretty weirded out over the concern about my neighborhood though the other neighborhood is of no concern, especially since "we were town reads" supposedly. If pere is scum there is more than op likely scum in that neighborhood.

*coughwe'rescumreadingnachocoughcough*

[MastinSSK]

(Apologies. Shouldn't have said "we're scumreading Nacho". But you have been, your vote's still there I believe, and I haven't heard anything about that read changing, so I assumed.)

[MastinSSK]

Uhg.

This is a really stupid, impulsive thing to do. Massively anti-town. But I keep on thinking things through, and I see AP/PV/Nacho as viable, but not so sure about it being Stalin or orc. And the best idea I'd have for a fourth given that would be Red Gyarados. Yet the only way I can properly explain that is by explaining exactly what I feel about them, why I think that they're quite possibly scum, in a lolCabd game. Guh. I've gone this far with it, so fuck it, I'm going to explain it, anti-townness be damned, because it shows where I've been coming from on them.

Red Gyarados 'crumbed vig D1. I actually didn't catch it--Rancid did. They warned Rancid not to gladiate DesBRO, and that an attempt to would never go through. Vig being a guess for their role is basically one of the only reasons I'm considering that Rancid could have been vigged. But I also think about their role, and that, well...they might have had a dayshot, perhaps multiple, because SOMEHOW, they knew my claim before I had made it. Brian Skies (I think) said I was a "mafia treestump" WELL before I had claimed. My vote being disabled was known; that I was bulletproof was not. So I put two and two together, of them being a vig who shot me during the day, and could shoot Rancid during the night.

Should be a townclaim, of course. But I keep on looking at the kills N1, and I keep on thinking again and again that they both look like scum. And a scum vig? (Especially limited shots.) Is exactly the kind of thing I can see Cabd putting into the game, because people aren't going to think scum can control two kills during the night. That's why they've been going in and out of my scum list a lot. Because I've been thinking about what they likely have done and did last night, and also thinking about the targets last night and what they flipped and why they were like that. Because if Red Gyarados was a town vig, vigging Rancid...why would Rancid be the one janned?

Basically, my head's been going over it all day. And I know that revealing this is massively stupid, but I really need to say it all the same. I've ultimately been trying to read Red Gyarados not off of what I've speculated their role to be, but off of their play, yet even then...it's iffy. I simply...don't know for sure, yet this massive possibility has been such that I simply can't let it go unsaid.

[MastinSSK]

We don't have a quick topic for our neighborhood, but the answer he have me about Clyton thinking that we had a lurker was for a quick topic. On the assumption that cabd is using ms private topics for everything, pere giving me that answer thinking I was in a quick topic means it's likely he's not in one because then he would have known that you can't just look at unique views and why I didn't understand why he thought there was a lurker. So, if a member of the scum team could verify if you have a quick topic that would be very helpful thanks!

Eh. I can see PV using QT as shorthand for 'private topic' out of habit. I can also see it being the type of slip easy enough to fake. But I'm willing to play ball, right now.

Saying you don't lie as scum is bullshit.

Remember my innos, and that TIP is confscum. Titus and PeregrineV are his scumbuddies.

And guess what? TIP was confscum. I didn't lie about that.

In general, of course as scum I need to lie about the alignment of players. But as scum? I will NEVER lie about theory. I will NEVER lie about things regarding a player outside the current game. Inside, sure, yeah, lie away about them. Rather, construe their posts in such a way that they look like what they're not, in a way that looks like it comes from town rather than from scum in spite of it not being fully accurate.

You think doing this in the game thread where this is doing all of the above to town is the best move, eh?

At the time? Sure, yeah! It

seemed

like a good idea......

[MastinSSK]

how do you know rancid caught their VIG crumb?

Because after they made the threat, Rancid essentially went, "Duly noted". I'd have to track down the exact spot in their iso, but it basically went,
"We're gladiating DespBRO."
"You try that, you're never going to get it through."
"...Duly noted."
(And me, after that, going, "...Oh." Silently. Since I of course wasn't going to highlight that I caught it.)

[MastinSSK]

Spent a few minutes in their iso. There are a few which coulda been it, but I can't find one that matches my exact memory of it. :/

[MastinSSK]

^

Removed from list

, for reasonz. (And ns being obvtown at beginning.)

Had to be around here, though, since ~reasonz~ = "I saw Rancid catch the 'crumb".

[MastinSSK]

oh hi there mastin I bet there are two scum in the Abysm, wanna guess who?

It's probably not GiF, and if you even think about trying to lynch that slot you're not making it to Night 1.

Unlike muffin, I like PV because he's easy to figure out the alignment of, you just have to wait til day four.

By then if he's town, a vig might just shoot him.

Found it! I think, anyway.

Apparently, I misremembered and Rancid didn't point it out, but *I* certainly noticed it. I dunno if it was here or earlier, butyeah. I saw a vig-'crumb, and townned them for it.

[MastinSSK]

MastinSSK (4): Just Sheep Us, PeregrineV, Yggdra Union, orcinus_theoriginal
Nachomamma8 (3): Titan, Red Gyarados, AngryPidgeon,

MastinSSK

CupcakePanda (1): The Fox and the Hound
Not Voting (4): Nachomamma8, Carbon Fiber, Clyton, Breakfast With Stalin

Fuck it, let's go arbitrary. 1-2 scum on each (4) wagon.

My wagon: PV and/or Orc.
Nacho's wagon: AP and/or Red Gyarados.
Not Voting: Nacho and/or Stalin.

In all cases, the first being more likely than the second. But with a second needed in *a* group if I'm remotely on-base.

I'm trying to run through the scenarios of AP-Nacho being a scumteam, and overall, I'd say that, well...that actually looks frighteningly possible.
Same for AP and orc, though not sure about orc-Nacho. Also have no clue about Gyarados, or how Stalin would fit in.

Individually, basically the only read I have real conviction in is AP, even though I'm currently hunting Nacho and not letting PV off the hook. I can't even form a coherent random guess, though; I'm too scatterbrained and need to regain my focus.

[MastinSSK]

Votecount 2-1

Angry Pidgeon (3): Breakfast With Stalin, PeregrineV, Titan
MastinSSK (1): Just Sheep Us
PeregrineV (1): MastinSSK
Not Voting (9): Kagura, The Fox and the Hound, Yggdra Union, orcinus_theoriginal, AngryPidgeon, Carbon Fiber, Red Gyarados, Cupcake Panda, Clyton

Votecount 2-5

Angry Pidgeon (2): Titan, MastinSSK
MastinSSK (5): Just Sheep Us, PeregrineV, Red Gyarados, Yggdra Union, The Fox and the Hound
Breakfast With Stalin (1): CupcakePanda
Not Voting (6): Kagura, orcinus_theoriginal, AngryPidgeon, Carbon Fiber, Clyton, Breakfast With Stalin,

Did notice this, though. Early wagon on AP. Wagon fades, reversed onto me.

I'm still solid on AP being scum.
Thinking not with Stalin, thanks to this.

Votecount Cagefight-3

Lord Bussiness (7): Lord Bussiness, orcinus_theoriginal, Titan, The Fox and the Hound, Just Sheep Us, Red Gyarados, PeregrineV
Breakfast With Stalin (3): Rancid Broderick Drake, AngryPidgeon, CupcakePanda
Not voting (7): Kagura, Yggdra Union, MastinSSK, Breakfast With Stalin, Carbon Fiber, Clyton, Mac

(Which would be minor points for Ap-Orc being a team.) But obviously, not strong, since LB was the obvious choice. Need to check what the votecount was when AP voted, though. Votes on LB? Meaningless. Votes not on LB? Could indicate Stalintown if APscum.

I really need to run the VCA in more detail later, but right now, I'm tired and exhausted and a little bit burned out. (Not to mention, a bit frustrated at there seeming to be more confusion rather than less. Picture less coherent rather than more. More circling rather than less. :/)

I need a nap. (Especially since others need a chance to catch up; having 500+ when the nearest doesn't even have 450 is a sign of how too much I am posting. )

[MastinSSK]

Oh! Just realized. Answer would be in my hydra QT, since I pointed out to SSK the 'crumb at the time. (I think anyway.) I get the time of my post, I get the approximate time of the catch. Don't have access to my QT until I'm at home, though, so that'll have to wait ~6 hours for me to dig up. (No promises of results, though.)

[MastinSSK]

fery: we could 1v1 mastin/ap today

Gladly.

Thing is, though, that'd remove chance of productive content today other than choosing in that fight, soyeah. I'll do it in a heartbeat, just not THIS heartbeat. When the battle drums are sounded, I'll enter the fray to answer their call. But it is not this day, this time.

[MastinSSK]

Shit.

Oh! Just realized. Answer would be in my hydra QT, since I pointed out to SSK the 'crumb at the time. (I think anyway.) I get the time of my post, I get the approximate time of the catch. Don't have access to my QT until I'm at home, though, so that'll have to wait ~6 hours for me to dig up. (No promises of results, though.)

Did this, and checked. The note in the QT exists...three days after the in-thread post, on the twenty-first rather than the eighteenth.

It's possible I posted it privately, in chat logs (in fact, I'm almost certain I did--I'm ABSOLUTELY positive "Red Gyarados is a vig" came up IN chat logs, it's just a matter of whether it was the first mention of it or not), but if so, said chat logs have since been lost, and thus, what time and day I picked up on it is also gone. :/

I found your response to my last wall lacking in depth. You say you want to figure out the game. Why aren't you doing so? I asked you what about my stances weren't clear but you didn't point to any specifics and it is coming off like you are trying to dismiss my pushes rather than understand them due to the lack of follow up. I also wanted to know what your issues with the game are right now and how you intend to resolve them. In particular, I asked how they make sense with your stance on Rancid. Your short response feels like brushing aside my questions and a large part of my wall rather than addressing them. Also, when is Beli going to show up? I want to talk to him about his reads.

Regarding PV's "townslip

:" We originally started off our neighborhood in a QT. Cabd then closed it and changed it to a Private thread about halfway through D1. I assume that the scum too had a QT to begin with which later changed to a Private thread. I am not sure how this affects PV's "townslip."

You know, F-16.

If you weren't so determined to scumread me. (Again.)

You and I would actually be working together on things like this. (Again.)

'Cause both of these? Are things that I JUST said.

I don't like Mastin talking about "this is what a scum-me would do" etc, but her attack on Nacho gave me pause.

No, no. "This is what a scum me DOES". It's a subtle difference, but it's a vital one. One's rambling, with a side of boasting, and any tactical advantage gained would be trivial compared to the insight into my mind, there as a mere after-thought. The other's serving a specific goal (often ranting), with a tactical goal as the central focus.

Anyone who calls F-16 scum is either scum or in my "ignore this" book for the rest of the game.

(I made a correction, since I assume this is what you meant to say.) Well, yeah. Problem is, I can't think of anyone who has. Can you? I'd listen,

quite

intently.

This convo re: p5 is dumb because p5 has been pretty obvtown by gamestate since he was the obvious scum-designated mislynch.

Assume Rancid town.
Assume me town.

Who's the scum on the supposedly scum-designated mislynch then?
(Okay. AP. Fair point. But that wagon peaked at six, from my memory. Who else? Just the one?)

[MastinSSK]

Hah! I still don't have any real scumreads except Mastin.
Nacho's still slipping into the null category, but more or less, yeah.

My biggest concern right now is "who is the snake in the grass in my strong town reads?" but (as Ffery mentioned earlier) it's kind of hard to work that out with all of the Mastin/AP cockwaving going on and bugger all else and I've got a serious case of wtfdoidoitis. (Not blaming that on the noise this game, though, that's all me. I seem to go through it for at least a while in every Large I play in.)

Okay. You guys's read on Mastin was something you disagreed with for a large part of D1 and D2. Are you making any progress in your discussion?

Who are the people that you would be willing to lynch come deadline? This is more so we don't have crazy flashwagons the day of the deadline.

I feel like a bomb just went off in the middle of the dinner table and you're passing the gravy here.

I also can't help but note the lack of answering going on, here. They're pursuing something that is an obvious dead-end (of course BRO meant F-16 is town), and be it through coincidence or design (depending on alignment), that stalls the answering of F-16's questions. (I lean towards scum.)

[MastinSSK]

I feel like an alt.

Like, when I'm playing on my main, I have a reputation that precedes me, even if I don't want it to. People listen to me, even when I tell them not to. People pay attention to me, regardless of whether that's a good or bad idea to do.

On an alt, I don't have that reputation, even if it's sometimes convenient for me to have one. People don't listen to me, which can occasionally be frustrating but is mostly relaxing. People don't really pay attention to me, because I'm just some random scummer. (And, yes, I do speak from experience; I have a large number of alts. I don't use most of them, but I've created something like a dozen, maybe more. Let's just say that a scummer who's never played with me at all is under suspicion of being me, if they don't play newbie games as a newbie.)

...And while I realize a hydra technically isn't a main, well...it's close enough where people should be doing that listening, but they're glazing over me. >_<

[MastinSSK]

Reading that post was like experiencing an instantaneous axial tilt, like every pattern in the sky jerked into incomprehensibility.

So now that you're not distracted by DesBRO, you can answer F-16's questions with your full gaze.

[MastinSSK]

Of course nobody's going to actually listen to this, but this grumbling, groaning, and whining has been going on for a while, so I might as well make my feelings on the subject known:
When it comes to things about other players? Read my damn posts.

Don't assign an alignment to my posting! In fact. Drop me being town or scum. Just read them. Don't skim them, either. I'm far from the worst waller this game, even if I'm the most consistent poster, so you can read the posts. Read what they're saying.
A-da-da-da-da-da!
No!
You're already assigning an alignment to them when reading.
Stop.

Take a step back. Breathe. Remove that bias. Don't let it in. Continue reading.

Alright, good? Now read the points they make. The points they make not visible on the surface? Dig behind the literal to find the thought process behind them.
Hey!
No assigning alignment!
You can still track thought processes and do it without attaching an alignment. It's not the standard (typically, you work with running both alignments' thought processes simultaneously), but it's something which can be done. Basically, pick up on the subtext of the points, and what the points are saying without having been said.

And track those.
See something?

...A lot of them are points others have made. Except I made them first. And nobody bothered to pay attention to them. Points I've made. Concerns I've raised. Questions I've asked. That others have brought out...after I brought them out first. So if you're actually listening to my post, here...
...Listen to my damn posting. Don't brush it off. Don't ignore it. There's content. There's good stuff in there. Sure, yeah, there's noise, but the noise is in the minority, not the majority. Sure, yeah, there's repetition, but I'm trying to cut back on that and if need be you can simply skip over things you think to be the exact same point said a different time. And track things that way.

You'll realize what I'm talking about.

...Or you could just assign me a scum role card I don't have and assume that I predicted the points before they were made by town players, and am milking the credit from them.

[MastinSSK]

Your opportunistic sticking of oars in is noted.

You call it opportunism. I call it scumhunting a player I have been, am, and continue to be, concerned about. For instance, F-16's questions in 4175 might have been quoting Beli, but that doesn't mean that it's to Beli specifically. That is the kind of question that can--and quite frankly, SHOULD--be answered by both heads. Yet you continue to go elsewhere.

Is it a perverse pleasure of some sort to post crap like this at me every time I've tried to do a reset and look for town reasoning in your posts?

File that under the list of differences between a town me and a scum me. A scum me is a sadist. A town me is a masochist.

(But seriously. I don't give a damn about your read on me; I give a damn about

your

alignment.)

[MastinSSK]

...Well, then.

For myself, I'm willing to lynch Mastin come deadline. Not so much AP based on BRO's take, though I have reservations about AP and his predecessors.

And why doesn't this apply to other players? Literally every dead town player this game (with all of them having extensive history, most of it fairly solid) has had me as a townread. Desperado had a scumread on AP, too, and so have many other players you trust. Plus, among those scumreading AP is myself, and that is

not

something insignificant. (For the record, I don't think I've ever pushed AP as being scum when I was scum. Aside from the legitimate scumread, that is. I've always taken the "he's town" approach.)

I feel like that slot just got a lot more murky as far as what their thoughts are. I think I posted a little about this earlier.

I also commented on this earlier, yet you didn't comment on my thoughts, there. Why not?

Hey, I remember having that exact text description and prompt in one of the first games I ever played.

[MastinSSK]

Then take your own goddamn advice about confbias.

*points to literally the entirety of third page of iso*

I did.

You've not been a consistent scumread.

You've wavered.
Consistently.

I've been trying to work you out.
I've been trying to sort out your alignment.
I've been putting effort into the read.
Even reached out to you.

And this time, you're the one who's been blocking me, rather than vice-versa.
Because I've been listing things that have concerned me. I've been a literal fucking open book about my thoughts, on everything, about how I feel, and I get nothing.

And it's not just you. Aside from a singular scumread on AP and not wavering on Titan/DesBRO/F-16/Yggdra townreads, there's basically been zero reads of mine that have been set in stone. Because I haven't been biasing. Because I HAVE been trying to figure things out. Hell! Even my second-strongest scumread, on PV. That's something that's been there far, FAR more often than not. But I'm wavering. I'm not sure. God, I wish I was. I wanted to sheep Rancid, there, so damn badly. But specifically because of my trust in others and self-doubt, I haven't been. It's literally right there in front of your fucking eyes.

That doubt.
Everywhere.

When I say to read my damn posts.
I really mean to read my god-damned posts.

Because I've been reaching out, I've been trying to solidify, I've been trying to get things coherent, I've been trying to piece things together, to work with others, to bridge the gap and figure things out, as I said a town leader should be. And bluntly, I haven't been succeeding. Because nobody has been listening to me. They'll occasionally (not consistently) respond to me. But they're not truly paying attention. They're not putting the time and effort that I am into things. They're not trying to truly figure me out. They say they are. And I'm sure the town players among them fully believe they are. But there's an entire lack of evidence that they actually have. Because every time that I try to work with them. Every time I explain myself. Every time that I have been doing what they have said they're also doing...the result I get is a stone wall, blocking it. A burnt bridge. Not following through on inquiries they asked me. Not responding to inquiries of mine. Lashing out. Calling my moves scum-driven. Calling my posting noise.

Which is why I say it, and will say it once again.
The effort is there. The attempt is there. To let others see me, because it's right in front of them. They just have to give the actual effort they claim they want to give.

So go ahead. Do you have questions for me?
Be honest. Do you?
If you spent the time reading my iso, do you think that I don't raise a lot of good points?
If you read the game, do you see how many of my questions went unaddressed but someone else later asked the same thing and got a response?
I'm not asking to be sheeped. (Though I'd of course like that, onto AP.) I am asking to be listened to. And bluntly?

My main concern to you. Boiled down. What all my other points trace back to, at their very core. Is that while you talk the talk about reaching out...I'm not seeing walking the walk and actually pay attention. You're making assumptions. You're being defensive. Snappy. Lashing out about it. Things that I have said, which were not made in ill will. Things that were legitimate concerns. Raised not to lynch you, but to get clarity about you.

I am the polar opposite of being confirmation bias right now. Because I have perfect clarity...on how much I lack clarity at all.

[MastinSSK]

because I want nothing to do with you this game day.

I'm the damn leading lynch candidate. This is potentially the only chance you get.

I don't want to talk to you. I don't want to interact with you at all.

......

Seriously. Who's the one here.
Really.

Who has confirmation bias?

It sure as hell isn't me.

Read that damn statement to yourself out loud. What does it sound like?

I've tried to understand you. I've tried to figure you out. I've tried to piece together your thoughts...and come up empty. Because you keep on doing shit like this. That keeps me from seeing the path. You keep saying you're transparent. But I'm not seeing it, and efforts to help me understand have been stopped dead. I mean, while I think that it's obvious that my thoughts are transparent, when people actually have asked (which, btw, they mostly...haven't), I've answered. I've tried. Really, really tried. To bridge the gap, to let them see what I saw.

You. Haven't.

And this is basically the polar opposite. Absolute inversion. Of what I've come to expect from ffery. I expect ffery to be the one reaching out. I expect ffery to be the one telling ME that I've locked her out of the loop. I expect her to try and work with me. I expect reach-outs from her, and that she would actually put effort into us working together.

But here?

You just said that bluntly, you want absolutely none of that.
And you think I'm being "opportunistic" scum for calling. you. out.

[MastinSSK]

also in case it wasn't clear, the uh???? was in reference to you not wanting to intereact with mastin at all this day phase while simultaneously believing that sorting mastin is the key to unlocking the gamestate fypov

Which, again, is the entire reason I'm concerned about ffery. Because this isn't the her I've come to known as town. It simply...isn't.

I've been consistently analyzing her, trying to figure out her alignment. I've reached out to her constant times; isoing the third page of me will show plenty of posts about Stalin--asking other players about her, directly interacting with her, and whatnot. Not putting her down. Not shooting her points down. Not arguing that she's scum. Trying to understand. Not understanding what she's saying. Trying to figure out her alignment. There's plenty of analysis that doesn't interact with her, and yes in a fair amount she's listed as scum and in most as a leading scum candidate. But even when I voted her, I wasn't well and truly scumreading her. I was still trying. I still am. To figure what the fuck is going on in her head, where she acts this way.

Because it makes no sense. It doesn't match what I know of her at all.

I don't know. My heart (not gut. Heart) is telling me that she is...but that she's on the verge of an emotional breakdown of some sort. (And if so, town.) That she's checked out of the game, that something has somehow snapped, that she's going to have something similar to what BROseidon did. But I don't know enough about her to tell, and quite frankly? If that wasn't the case. If she isn't on the verge of snapping. If this is a normalish ffery? Then I simply can't see how it's her town self.

[MastinSSK]

I've been exercising extreme restraint for days now, thinking that I had a bias problem going on.

You do. Listen to your words. You've given up on the one damn thing.
ONE. DAMN. THING. Above all others!
That the ffery I know is best at. At bridging gaps. At mending rifts. Not tearing them wider. You're not trying to understand.

So if you're town. I have only one thing to say to you at this point:
What. the.

fuck

.

I don't know what you need. To take a breather. A step back from this game. Out of it entirely. Just mafia in general. A lecture. A rant. A diplomatic letter. I don't know you well enough to know how to push the right buttons to make you actually be playing mafia again. So bluntly, this will probably be offensive. I'm not going to tell you that you need to leave the game. But I have every right to demand something of you, if you are town.

Get your shit together

.
Or at least have the guts beyond muttering "I'm done" to admit that you haven't.

This is abrasive. To be frank, it's fully possible it'll tick you off even more and make things worse. But they're words that need to be said in some form or another. Someone else can say them less offensively, more diplomatically, more nice, in a more polite tone. But bluntly, you are not yourself. So if you are town. Give me my town-ffery back. Because this? What you're doing right now? Isn't her.

[MastinSSK]

(I do want to trust my heart about that, by the way.
AP as scum.
{Nacho, Red Gyarados, orcinus_theoriginal, PV} is my scumpool.
I want to investigate the viability of AP-Nacho-Guarados-orc.)

[MastinSSK]

A final bit about ffery:
I am fully aware that as I type about her, I am not in full emotional control, either. I can feel the anger on my end, and I know that it's bled into my posting. That abrasiveness, that bluntness, that lack of concern, the "insulting" tone. And honestly, that's where the heart feeling comes from--from guessing she's got that on her end, too. But me, me I've had it. I'm aware of it. I'm actively trying to manage it, control it, to be the best I can in spite of the emotional compromisation.

So when it comes to her. Because she's someone I respect. Because she's someone I normally enjoy playing with. Because she's someone I normally can get along with, even when we can't communicate that effectively. Because I hold her in high regard. Seeing her act in a way so contrary to everything I know is basically a red flag. I've been thinking red flag for her being mafia. But through what I can best describe as being Fire Forged Friends, I kinda feel like I might be understanding her. Oh, yes. Fully possible I'm entirely off-base. Especially if this is her scumgame. But if I'm on the right track, then...

...Well, I know that red flags for emotionally snapping are things that need to be confronted immediately. My approach could make things worse, I don't know. Some people when faced with that hostility can see the truth in it and realize where it comes from, other people take it as a deep personal attack. But it's the approach that I felt needed to be said. Because it conveys how I'm feeling. I could lie and say I'm calm. I'm calmer than I have been, but not calm by any stretch of the imagination. I know that I could cause hurt to her. Obviously, I'm hoping I don't, and it wasn't my intention. But it had to be said. Getting that off my chest.

Because that's the only way I could think of to move forward. I am angry. I know she is angry. We can make the anger worse, or we can confront it and either cave into it or shove it aside. I'm trying for the latter.

[MastinSSK]

So last night, I had a dream. I was running a triathlon, and was actually doing fairly decently, in the lead. I did okay swimming, too, even though I didn't do great. But then, me and a group of others (nicknamed "Team *my other online alias*") got stuck, because part of the triathlon involved solving a puzzle for those who started running (you could start with any of the three). And my group got stuck on the riddle, unable to find out the answer.

It was laid out in front of us, right there, yet I could never actually get it. Others in my group were trying to solve it, of course, but they were relying on me above all others to figure it out, and there I was...unable to piece it together. I had ideas. But I couldn't make sense of things, because I didn't remember the full riddle, and every time it was told to me, I focused on random aspects and still couldn't quite figure it out. And I felt frustrated, defeated, a failure.

Another random aspect of the dream is that there was precisely one other person named: PeregrineV, who was a frenemy in the dream. That is, he is someone who I felt great hostility towards, not even hesitating to think of sacrificing, yet pausing, realizing that I couldn't actually go through with it, and that we were close.

Given the frustration and that I ultimately never won (though, admittedly, also didn't lose), I'm willing to place some amount of confidence that it was vaguely a metaphor for this game. You might think that this is crazy, to trust my subconscious, but I'm actually thinking of trusting this one, because when awake and pondering the dream? I realized that--at least in this game--that's how I'm beginning to feel about PeregrineV. That he's

not

my enemy, even though we've been opposed to each other a fair bit.
I already was thinking it last night, so all the dream did was bolster that feeling, that while I wouldn't be particularly sad to see him go...that, well. I'm not thinking he's actually scum for it.

But that's actually not the point of this ramble. You'd think it was, since it contains a slight reads change, but it's not. In truth, the point of this all is that I kept thinking about the dream, and as I was eating breakfast, I came upon a realization, on how the dream reflects how I think.

It doesn't matter if it's true inside the actual game itself. But I figured out something about how I perceive myself inside games. Inside ALL my games. When I'm town, I see myself as The Hero. The protagonist. Not necessarily leading the town, but there as an important, significant figure. I have an unusual outlook on life, one often inspiring others, and I can chain people together. I unite them behind a cause, and am a fairly competent fighter. I can suffer breakdowns, BSODing. I make plenty of mistakes. I'm a bit of a ditz sometimes. I can be an idiot. But in spite of that, I can still be charming. My naivety can be my strength, and whatnot.

There's probably more than that, but you get the idea. Regardless of its truth, that's how I've seen myself on some level, always. That I am the hero, whose job it is to save the town that I am now a member of. To fight with friends against the enemy, and to take a dysfunctional group and turn them into a lethal fighting force.

Vice-versa for when I'm scum, too. I see myself as the lead villain. Someone magnificent. With that same charm, but with a dark twist to it. Planning. Plotting. Cunning. An absolute master at manipulating events. Hamming things up, especially behind the scenes, but when necessary (in-thread), being all civil and kind and looking polite and all that.

So a genre-savvy villain, at that. One who may gloat in private, but in public is kept from being seen as the villain thanks to a magnificent stacking of the deck in my favor. And it's true. I can't predict everything, so there will be spanners in the works of my plans. But I do my best to adapt them, and by the time things are finished, nobody would even know that I was set back at all.

The dream last night reflected that heroic aspect. Because frankly, that's how I think, and it makes sense when you consider what I spend my time doing outside of mafia. That I'm a writer, that I like to spend a lot of time on TVTropes, that I am a muse of creativity, and a significantly large ham. (One reason I'd love to meet up with scummers is so that they could personally witness me Shatnering up the scene. ) So of course when it comes to mafia, that's what I see myself as being.

In this game, it's definitely been the hero, thinking they have the moral high card, but both being given and giving out "What The Hell, Hero" lectures.

But now that I know this, I'll be able to more effectively work with others, since I have that better understanding of my fundamental mindset.

/will read 169-current in a bit. I need to finish up my morning activities, like brushing my teeth, since I rushed straight from breakfast to here to type this up.

[MastinSSK]

Mastin, while I disagree that the reads of dead players who are familiar with you should be trusted (I've said the same thing as both town and scum so HMMMM), actually attacking people for not agreeing with you is pretty ridiculous.

No, it isn't. If you don't believe in NKA (and to some extent, VCA), then that's fine, not taking the results into account is only natural.

If you do, and you have, then that's okay; it's also natural.
If you do, but you haven't taken them into consideration, that's not. NKA/VCA doesn't require blind faith in the results, trusting them above all other factors. It does require you to not

blatantly ignore

said factors.

I'd also be quite willing to lynch Mastin.

Point of interest--
Who here isn't willing to lynch me?

Be honest, think about that for a bit, and tell me. Is there so much as a single player here, alive, who isn't?

...Yeah, I didn't think so.

Did I really tick my scumbuddies off enough that they'd be willing to bus me in a heartbeat

that

badly?

Mastin's posts to ffery last night remind me of her posts to me in Attack on Titan.

Like hell they were. The two are entirely. ENTIRELY. Different worlds. Not a damn thing similar between them.

I imagine I frustrated her because I didn't give her much she could argue against as I was scum reading her slot merely because the game just made more sense to me if she was scum.

No. I had absolutely zero emotional investment in your attack on me that game. I was pushing you for one specific reason, and one specific reason ONLY: to get your ass off of mine so that I could bide my time. I do not get frustrated with scumreads on me, LEAST of all scumreads on me for solid reasoning, when I am scum. And though your reasoning wasn't solid (it was essentially POE), it was correct and not incorrect, so there was absolutely zero emotion involved in that push.

How the fucking hell can you compare the two? The two have absolutely NOTHING in common. Not mindset. Not circumstances. Not tone. Nothing.

Are you fucking kidding me? I've been having doubts on your slot because your posting hasn't been focused in on achieving a town-oriented goal: it's been a constant onslaught of posting that doesn't stop because you know that you need to keep up constant production to keep the game state the way it is as opposed to constantly working on forming reads, reworking the game, determining alignment.

Okay. Nacho's scum. Against some random scummer, this logic would be fine. Against me. Against ME, dammit. This is essentially a scumclaim. He KNOWS me. He's written god-damned town cases on me in the past. He's nailed my ass as scum. He's been able to show, clearly, with clarity, exactly why I am town in a game, when he's been town himself, and articulate clearly why he is suspicious of me when not.

And he knows.
KNOWS.

This accusation about me.

Is absolute, utter, entire bullshit.

There is nothing in my posting aside FROM that town-oriented goal, so much so to a fault, in that while a lot of my posting is repetitive. While a lot of my posting is going in a circle. Each time, it's an effort to figure the damn game out. An effort that fails and ultimately doesn't do much...but an effort all the same to figure the fucking game out. My constant posting isn't a scumtell; if anything, it's a towntell. Lurking isn't a scumtell for me, but it is still my overall preferred scum tactic, since I love to watch town fights develop. Towns will naturally go at each others' throats with surprisingly little prompting for scum, and scum posting in the middle of it can mess that up, so I don't; I let it happen.

But I haven't been doing that this game. Not at all. I've been trying to piece together the puzzle. THERE IS LITERALLY NOTHING BUT ATTEMPTS TO FORM READS AND REWORKING THEM IN MY FUCKING POSTING.

THAT IS THE ENTIRETY OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING

. Seriously, that's the whole fucking reason people have been accusing me of going in fucking circles, because I HAVE been trying to work things out and HAVE been trying to get my shit together and HAVE been trying to figure out the alignment of players.

There is no way. No fucking way. That Nacho can't see that in my posting. That attempt to work things out has been there so strongly. So damn strongly. That I've essentially done so to a fault. That it's so damn prominent as to have lost its impact. And he knows. KNOWS. He fucking knows me. Well enough to know that it comes from me as town.

You're correct: if I laid in a vote on you when I wasn't engaged, hadn't interacted with you, that would be a scumclaim. I didn't. I expressed concern about you and made engaging with you my #1 priority (even though, let's be honest, I owe the neighborhood a hell of a lot more posting and footwork than I owe you), but you're reacting as harshly as you are right now because you know that a strong solid, scumread from me means that you're dead in the water.

Bullfuckingshit you expressed concern and made interacting with me your number one priority. You've done shit. Absolute zero fucking shit. To actually communicate with me and work with me. Your mindset isn't doubting-but-hoping. Or figuring out. Or scumreading me, even. Your mindset is throwing a read out there, and hoping nobody calls you out on it. There is no pattern behind it. There is no hints. Nothing. Except that sudden read which goes against every fucking aspect of what I know a town-Nacho sees in me. Because the very damn things you're saying aren't there are THE VERY FUCKING THINGS THAT THE REST OF THE TOWN HAS NOTED AS BEING PRESENT AND SCUMREAD ME FOR.

I'm fully aware that in a 1v1 against you, I'll lose.
But I'm going to make DAMN sure.
DAMN FUCKING SURE.

That you don't get away with it.

[MastinSSK]

So, I'm feeling kind of weirded out by this developing secondary arc which looks like it's positioning itself to lynch the ffery hydra. I'm not sure what to think of the people involved or the way it's coming about.

Ffery acted weird. The explanations for it that I came up with are either that she's scum or that she's had/about to have a meltdown.

I feel the latter. Town players (myself included) probably saw the former. Scum players can capitalize on that.

But I'm not going to let a Stalin lynch happen, since I'm strongly leaning towards it having been a town meltdown.

Why did you flop onto Nacho despite them being confirmed-would-game-throw levels of town?

One post.

Because sometimes, all it takes is one post.

For me to realize that I've been barking up a seriously wrong tree.

That post. Was just so un-Nacho. Was just so...so...against his town self. Like, I had heard it from F-16 before, but didn't really believe it. Thought he might be presenting what Nacho said wrongly. And then, Nacho posted that.

One post. One damn post. Is sometimes all I need to realize that I've gone wrong. (Though I later relapsed, you'll recall I had similar thoughts on F-16's post to Tammy, and how a scumread reversed into never-lynch townread for it.)

You're scum.
Nacho's scum. This is simply not his townplay.
I have no damn clue who the other two are, though I suspect orcinus is one.

Stalin I don't think is.
Fox/Hound I don't think is.
PV is someone I'm thinking might not be.
I'm seriously considering Red Gyarados as being scum, too.

But that's the best I've got.

Mastin, explain why you THOUGHT RBD picked up on this if you can.

Already did. I thought the conversation went,
Rancid: Imma gladiate this person!
Red Gyarados: You try, you'll never live to see it go through.
Rancid: ...Duly noted.
(Me: "Ah.")

The first part did happen. I can't find anything like a "duly noted" from Rancid, though, so apparently I just picked up on it myself.

Did you ultimately go anywhere with this point?

Yes. Explaining why Red Gyarados is basically in my scum list right now. I've thought them to be a vig since D1. I'm thinking scum-vig. Like I said. Knowing what role I saw Red Gyarados as is vital in understanding how I've been treating the slot, since their role (rather, its usage, be it real or intended) has played a HUGE part in my read of the gamestate, transcending their claim and extending into the night actions as a whole.

God this makes me want to just vote you. I've had about enough of mastin for the rest of this game. The circlejerking, the Appeals to Authority, the endless waffling about half the player list in wall format, and posturing on this in a way that will definitely make people want to lynch me if you flip scum. Ugh. Ugh ugh.

All of which a town-you KNOWS come from me as town, and not as scum.

[MastinSSK]

Why did you flop onto Nacho despite them being confirmed-would-game-throw levels of town?

Seriously. AP and Nacho are tag-teaming.

And let me show you something.
Nacho's upped his scumgame.

Near the end of D1, he focused wagons onto AP and orcinus.
Here's the thing, though. That could have caused a no-lynch. (Old point, I know.) But let's say it didn't. Orcinus's role means a govern, meaning no scum lynch. All it takes is Orcinus claiming in order for it to not look like a scum was run up.
Overnight, AP claims a result on Nacho, but the result is later said to be roleblocked.

This is not a super-complicated plan.
This is not some contrived, convoluted scum plan.
It's actually beautifully simple and easy to execute.

And it is totally their style.
Especially since ffery was put into the arena.

And furthermore? If I'm right about Red Gyarados being a scum vig...then it totally gives a perfect explanation for the nightkills, too.

I am emotionally charged right now. My heart's racing. I can feel myself pounding (rather than typing) the keyboard. So I'm not exactly the most stable. But this isn't rage. It's adrenaline. That probably means I'm not entirely correct. But I certainly don't think I'm entirely wrong, either.

[MastinSSK]

He had me on confirmed would game throw levels of town because he wanted me to feel good. He flopped on me because he's trying to pull the same "Nacho townreading me = Nacho town and Nacho scumreading me = Nacho scum" shit that Ceph pulled in ASOIAF.

LIKE HELL I WOULD.

Know what a scum-me does when Nacho pressures me? Beg him to reconsider his read. Continue buddying as I have been buddying. Maybe throw in a bit of paranoia, if I'm going for extra townpoints, but since the plan as scum is to nightkill Nacho anyway, a scuMastin really only needs to keep the scumread off for long enough to pull that off.

THAT IS HOW I THINK.
I have a plan. I always have a plan. Said plan involves who gets lynched and who gets nightkilled. It involves keeping suspicion where I want it to be, and getting suspicion away from where I don't want it to be. THAT IS MY FUNDAMENTAL SCUM OBJECTIVE. And entering into a 1v1 fight against Nacho? IS THE POLAR FUCKING OPPOSITE OF THAT.

Nacho KNOWS this about me. That the LAST thing. I would do as scum. Is willingly. WILLINGLY. Jump into the fray and fight him. Because it would bite my ass, big time. He is scum.

[MastinSSK]

I still don't think Rancid was scum.

But Mastin probably is.

THESE TWO THOUGHTS ARE.
HAVE BEEN.
AND ALWAYS WILL BE.
MUTUALLY. FUCKING. EXCLUSIVE.

She considers herself a mediator, a diplomat...and when ffery's diplomat hat slips off a little bit, she gets offended why exactly?

A little bit?

ffery threw her diplomat hat on the ground, and stomped on it. Repeatedly.

I'm increasingly convinced she's town. But I am royally ticked off. Because in past games?
In past games, I've been the one who was burning the bridge down.
This game?

She just flat-out to my face said she was.

my initial thought was "this is a scum mastin post if i've ever seen one" and boom, it really really is

LIKE FUCKING HELL IT IS.
YOU KNOW NOTHING.

NOTHING

.
ABOUT ME IF YOU THINK.
THAT I CAN ACTUALLY.
LEGITIMATELY.
PULL SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
AS SCUM.

As scum, there is a detachment from the argument. I might curse, I might shout, but there is an agenda to my words.
WHAT IS THE AGENDA.
WHAT IS THE PLAN.

In AoT, there was a plan. A clear fucking plan. A point to the rant at Tammy. I was doing one thing. And one thing ONLY. Trying to get her off of me. That's it. That was all there was to it. WHAT IS THE PLAN HERE. There is none.

Of course my game's going to have some SUPERFICIAL FUCKING RESEMBLANCES to some scum game. You can pull up any random scum game of mine and make comparances to it, and a towngame on why this wouldn't be it. BUT THAT IGNORES THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF SCUMHUNTING. Which is looking at the context, the damn CIRCUMSTANCES, for it, and the mindset behind the push.
WHAT WAS THE SCUM MINDSET?

To get ffery on my side?
Fuck no.

Nacho. Is. Scum.
AP. Is. Scum.

Whoever else is fucking scum, those two are.

Their whole interactions is off.
Their whole aura. Especially how they're treating me.
This is not them as town.

[MastinSSK]

Since when has your posts not being productive stopped you even remotely in this game?

Since I decided to try.

Actually fucking try.

To be a better player.

But I'm emotionally compromised right now.

[MastinSSK]

AP's been scumposting, too, but I'm already late for my class thanks to posting here, and I haven't even tackled 173, yet alone, AP's recent posting, so that'll have to wait.

[MastinSSK]

Spoiler: AP Post

Alright Nacho, Bork left me with a weird taste in my mouth so I need something from you. Why is your mastin read is whatever it is right now? I kind of like this reaction; it sort of gels with what I'd expect given mastin's post, even if this is potentially just confirmation bias, but details please.

Confirmation bias? How do you figure that?

Ok, maybe this is why I want to see your progression mastin more transparently cause TBH I feel like the hydra was 90% Bork and I never caught any wind of him wanting to vote mastin.

Im just saying that mastin went from calling you conftown for a fairly shitty reason to "lolol Nacho is obvscum cause he isnt townreading me" which...if that happened to me I know I'd be looking a lot like

Do you think mastin could have said that as town is what Im getitng at, I get the potential scum-motivation/scumminess behind it, but I can see it being from town, especially considering the level of derp mastin is determined to play at right now.

p-edit: @Titan. Town. I think. There are a couple things about mastin that bother me alignment-wise (and a ton of things that make me want to just lynch her regardless), but I think shes town. Shes melting down and actively deluding herself about that. I think as scum she'd be more focused and controlled. Not impossible, more later on that hopefully cause there is one thing that feels off to me in a deja-vu sort of way, but the sheer amount of fucking nonsense coming from her right now with no self-screening at all is probably from town. When mastin word-vomits as scum there is at least generally a theme to it of some sort. Mastin has been way too all over the place this game for her to be probable scum IMO.

That said, her flop on Bork really bothers me and that one-liner about RBD having caught the Vig crumb (and also outing the perceived crumb) make me squint at my screen realllly hard.

The former I can see town motivation for, however bad it matches with the deluded world that mastin is currently posting from. The latter could just be a legitimate scum slip and involves RBD and mastin being scum together which would be fairly earth shattering for me, but I am thinking about it. BRO and Desp seem to find it likely and I -do- trust their judgement a little (they are one of the few I actually trust to read mastin other than myself) even if I dont like to admit to trusting others ever

In particular, I caught something here, though I can't remember it now. I think it had to do with his overall stance on me; not sure how.

Spoiler: Same with this one

Alright, I realize I missed a few pages before these last couple..random thoughts:

Fox/Hound: Can you two explain where exactly you stand on everyone right now and on reads that you disagree on, why? Im having a hard time recalling/tracking what you two actually are thinking. Your vote on me and unvote (fake edit) and vote on mastin and unvote is really non-committal. Do you actually have a reason for thinking Cupcake is scum or is that just a whatever vote?

Desperado: What is your read on Beli/ffery exactly?

Holy shit. Holy shit. Holy shit. holy shit. Please just be scum.

Belisarius: What is your read on Brian Skies and why? Have you talked about it with Ffery at all?

I can squint and make out a cupcake/mastinssk team, maybe. I dunno.

Is this based on connections or just individual posting? I still have less than zero thoughts on Panda's alignment.

The game still leads right back to MastinSSK and AngryPidgeon. Happy to see Mastin getting lynched today. I want to hear if anyone has any other thoughts before moving forward.

What are you honestly expecting people to say? Is there anyone in particular you think needs time to read and/or generate content?

Officially not reading mastin posts for now unless they get referenced somehow because fuck that.

re Mastin vote: We've talked it over a little bit. I still feel conflicted about the slot while DV still leans scum on it. We're both pretty strapped for scumreads.

Huh well this might explain why you have both felt fairly lackluster Today. Do either of you have a read on: PV, Nacho, F16?

I think it had to do with AP's read progression.

You've been a nullread. Not a scumread. But assuming a scum gladiator. Not a chance in fucking hell would it be Rancid.

K, so this is just untrue given your narrow suspect pool which has Orcinus in it rather verbosely. And the bit about gladiators is irrelevant and doesn't really mesh with you reportedly thinking Orcinus is 'null' right here.

In fact, Orcinus comes out looking pretty town here.

Except that you're trying to have cake while eating it. The circumstances of your claim were desperation, and a need to use the role to 'prove' yourself. Rancid, not so much.

Thus, of the two, Rancid's was townier.

It's a trivial argument overall, though. Since I'm not even sure of a scum gladiator. (I suspect as much, though.)

Huh, maybe mastin is just scum. This argument with Orcinus is really terrible. Orcinus claimed because he was getting ran up. That doesnt make him any more or less likely to be scum. And mastin is seemingly simultaneously arguing that one of the gladiators is probably scum and therefore must be orcinus (terrible) and also that the claim itself was scummy despite them being a "null read". I mean wow the cognitive dissonance is at an all new level here.

Especially here, ESPECIALLY given that I explained it in things that AP hasn't quoted.

TBH, I'm not reading any posts from anybody that make me want to just trust them this game.

I get your paranoia of BRO/Desp. If F16 is actually town, I may end up looking there. After catching up a lot of posts really quick, I see they are sort of coasting on Yesterday's towncred and opinions. I havent seen anything very intereting from them recently except Desperado's push on Stalin which I don't really understand the origin of.

"I don't really trust anyone" *next line* "I'm basically trusting you".

Their opinions have been mostly static (the Stalin pressure form Desp being the only thing that really wasnt that I see) and everything else they've said looks pretty conf-biasy regardless.

Ironically, these very traits AP's not-stronger-townreading-them for are the very things I'm beginning to see as coming from them as town.

Like it looked pretty town and Im sure the emotion was genuine, but I just have a hard time with that cause I know I -could- do that as scum.

This read feels out of place overall, though. Seems too low.

Orcinus. The large lack of content from this slot is annoying, but the mini-war with Mastin and the "lets 1v1" seemed fairly unabashedly town to me. If I were super motivated, Id probably read Teenwolf mafia to compare him to, but I wont cause fuck that. The reaction to mastin calling him scummy for his role looked town for reasons Im having a hard time articulating which maybe is partly why Orcinus isn't in my higher tier list which I briefly considered putting him in. I just have a hard time seeing Orcinus as scum pushing on mastin so hard for that. It felt really strongly that Orcinus believed his points against mastin I guess.

And this reeks of bullshit, and of being too high.

I have a little bit of a hard time folllowing where they want to go, but their reported lack of scumreads does make a lot of sense with their behavior and the hydra dissonance they post is pretty damn artful if they are actually scum.

This seems like a better description of a reason for a Stalin townread, yet Stalin is lower in the list, even marked with a question mark of uncertainty.

At this point, can I lynch her for the toldYaSo and policy lynch factor? Maybe.

And again. Really, really. Don't think. AP would ever truly consider. An actual policy-lynch.

F-16, Nacho, PV, Panda, Yggdra, Red Gary.

And his posting really doesn't seem to be reflecting these as his scumreads.

I see mastin admitted that she isn't actually accomplishing anything finally.

Literally the last damn post of mine on page two of my iso, I said the same fucking thing. Why is it more notable now? I've recovered and then relapsed for half a fucking week.

TBH it did look terrible that mastin was interjecting to buddy up to F16's questions when BRO -DID- just post something from left field about F16 that stalin was trying to clarify F-16's reaction about with F-16.

To me? There was no way.
No damn way.
BROseidon's post could be read that way legitimately.
Like. Reading the rest of the post aside from that one damn line itself made it apparent. His tone, his language, his sentence structure, his positions throughout the day, and his lack of vote. All made it crystal-clear apparent that what he meant is that scumreading F-16 is a scumclaim.

Thus, why focusing on what was obviously a typo was...
...Nothing but a distraction.

Your deep in-depth knowledge of what you would do as scum and pointing out that you are doing the opposite of it negates any argument you make using that knowledge.

If I was using it as defense?

Yeah.

But I'm not. I'm using it as offense. Because these? Are things that Nacho KNOWS about me.
Fuck, AP's basically scum and even he's admitted that they're true about me. (Not like he has any choice, though, since if he didn't, then he'd confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt himself to be scum. Rancid described it fairly well. As scum, I'm forced to townread zMuffinman and AP, because scumreading either of them is a red flag. As scum, Rancid's forced to townread me, for the same reason. And as scum, AP's forced to townread me, because I will be down his throat if not.)

So, I wondered more than once if my view of the gamestate was horribly wrong after Mastin's post to ffery but the AoT links makes me feel that it isn't.

It is. Read the damn mindset, not the damn past-games-of-mine. I advocate playing in the fucking present for exactly this fucking reason. The mindset that game was to get Tammy off of me. The mindset this game is to get ffery back so that I can actually work with her and stop the fucking rift that formed from getting larger.

I mean, besides Mastin obviously.

I'm not. Not anymore. They *could* be scum, but I feel like I hit on the core of the matter, in my rage. Basically...two likeminded people butt heads. They feel similarly about the other, blinded to the others' feelings. They pin it on the other, and not themselves, creating hostility. And whatnot.

Fire Forged Friends was the best description I could think of, of that clash against one another with great hostility, and then...suddenly. Something clicking into place. I could be horribly wrong. That she's

actually

scum, who I correctly called out. But I really think. That I figured it out. That she was going through the same thing I did, and have been, and will likely go into again. (At the very moment I'm typing this, slightly calmed down.)

And that? Means town, and means I need to redouble efforts to fix things.

[MastinSSK]

I think you are scum and don't particularly care whether or not you are on the same page as me.

Well, I think AP's scum, too, but in the interest of fairness, if I was somehow wrong, I'd want you to put in the effort to get on the same page as him simply because that's something I also want from you to me.

AP's post about the wall was horrible, though.

Jesus. you wonder why RBD was so pissed off at you, this is why. You are so fucking full of yourself. Its been a great displeasure this game CF.

Well, yeah. He has been. But I've actually felt like he's put in a lot of serious effort to trying, today. A whole lot more than he did yesterday.

I'm ignoring you because you are going into a "refute and debate" mode. It doesn't seem like you were genuinely trying to figure out my affiliation or see where I am coming from. You are not handling suspicion in a "reasonable" way. That's part of why I didn't mind interacting with Ffery/Beli because even when I questioned their affiliation, they are still talking about it in a mature way.

(One of the reasons I think he's scum, btw.)

This vote probably wont move before deadline.

Like hell it won't. 'Specially if I ticked you off. (Well, I'm not going to do so intentionally, but I'm not going to go out of my way to not tick you off, sooooooooooooooo...)

Oh also you are scumreading me and mastin and RBD on a connection case that is just bad.

Well, yeah, he was, but now, he's looking at other factors, other things about us.

There is LITERALLY no way mastin or I would be doing this as scum buddies. Literally. And from someone who has apparently been wellread in mastin meta, you should know this.

Also true, but something you haven't picked up on but that I have is that F-16 is reconsidering his stances on the matter. Like, thinking we're both scum but knowing only one of us would be, for instance.

If mastin is scum with RBD, surely her team would have mountains of motivation to Janitor RBD if possible.

If I'm scum with Rancid, we keep our fucking strongest scum player alive during the night, not make them vanish overnight, exposing me to attack with nobody (aside from Mac, who ended up dead) to defend me.

[MastinSSK]

Random book-keeping note.

522+15 = 537 large themes
(Best of the internet = first to break 100. Chrono Trigger was second.)

Lost Boys mafia, 185 pages, one of the old giants.
War in Heaven II, 176 pages, another old legend. (Coincidentally also modded by Flay.)
Phables: Death Note, 177 pages, which I experienced. (Briefly.)
Kingdom Hearts Mafia, 175.

Note that the great rollback ruins game length records to some extent, but going off of what I can confirm...
Reckamonic's Ocarina of Time mafia, 203 pages. (First Large Theme to break 200.)
Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos (reboot), 176 pages. (Which I also experienced.)
Stars Aligned III, 226 pages.
Mafia Behind the Maiden, 215 pages.
The game of the year, 179 pages.
A Dance with Dragons Mafia, 176 pages.

Politics Mafia, 209 pages. (Which I was technically in!)
Mafiastuck, 294 pages.
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy, 202 pages. (Also in.)

League of Legends Mafia, 179.
Pinkmin Mafia (I also was in), 198 pages.
Xenoblade Mafia, 184 pages.
Lord Patator Charlixion the 6th, 188 pages.

The Walking Dead, 205 pages. (I was in that, too.)
Dr Who: Last Great Time War, 236 pages.
Xenogears Mafia, 235 pages. (Yep.)
upick of Ice & Fire, 266 pages.

Fire Emblem: Awakening, 368 pages. (Broke 300, and yes, I was in it. Partially, anyway.)
Marketplace Mafia III, 208 pages.
Mobile Suit Gundamn SEED Mafia, 288 pages. (Yeah, I was there.)

Touhou Mafia Land of Fantasy, 237 pages.

So 25 confirmed games at the length we're currently at, on D2.
We had 17 players (admittedly mostly hydras), most of these had much more than that.
Yet we're in the top 5% of theme games ever played, page-wise.

And we're still climbing. (And I'm also losing my lead post-wise to Tammy. That's not a bad thing, though.)

I think you and Mastin are quite capable of coming up with new interactions each time you are scum together. Do you feel that your interactions are so set in stone that you won't try a distancing tactic for once?

Distancing, sure, heck yeah.

...If our play this game could be called distance, though, I'd love to see what you consider hardcore bussing.

Bullshit. There was large amounts of drama cause Muffin was trying to get them to explain any of their scumreads yesterday and they refused for pages and pages. I have yet to see anything today that explains it at all.

Explicit explanation, not. Implicit, plenty of. I'd be lying if I said F-16 was an open book. But he's not an opaque wall as you're insisting with his thoughts; they can be followed, kinda sorta. I would prefer more explicit thoughts, of course, but it's not a requirement.

I havent really seen any indication of this either. At all. What.

Subtext. F-16's free to call me wrong, but that's what I saw.

It kind of felt that way this game though with your towntowntown reads on Bork/Titan/?Mac? and then just sort of coasting from there. But thats mostly irrelevant. I guess I am somewhat expecting Ffery from Xenosaga who actually scumread Flandre D1 and rolled with that pretty hard and Im not seeing it here. But thats just a niggle on my end that is irrelevant. I still think you are probstown. Can you explain your current read on Nacho?

This thought process doesn't look like it comes from town, either.

First off, this is a PoE pool.

Yes, but still a scum pool all the same. My posting is more akin to how I'd expect a town-you to be handling a scumlist with those names.

Don't think. AP would ever truly consider. An actual policy-lynch.

Then why did you also post this:

This vote probably wont move before deadline.

Like hell it won't. 'Specially if I ticked you off. (Well, I'm not going to do so intentionally, but I'm not going to go out of my way to not tick you off, sooooooooooooooo...)

Wut. Like. You're using a completely and entirely random post. You'd vote me, especially if emotional. It wouldn't be on policy, nor would it be a proper policy-

lynch

. (There's a difference between voting and advocating the lynch of a player.)

It wasn't obviously a typo, I know I read it and got excited at first.

You just cut out all the things I pointed out that explained

exactly

why it

was

an obvious typo.

And you yourself are trying to argue you think Stalin is town now, so clearly you can see why your scumread on them over this is bad, right?

I never scumread them. I was concerned, yes. I thought it could indicate them being scum, yes. But I never was truly sure they were scum, LEAST of all for something like that, which was just the latest in my points of concern. Points of concern being exactly that, points, which are of a concern. The concern is MOSTLY gone, and a lot of the points addressed. So I suppose in a twisted way, the answer's yes. But that's not the focus on it now. It's still a 'point', because now it's a point for why they need to focus and get back into the game. (That, uh. Made more sense in my head?)

Also Id like to point out that you have admitted to blindly NKing zMuffin in another game despite him townreading your slot and are arguing that he was a scumkill here.

Yeah. My slot. SLOT. Not me. And Blind. As in, didn't even read the damn game to know he had a townread. But I feared him enough to not care. If I had read during the night, know what I'd have done? Killed him anyway, fully aware that whatever his read on me may have been? It was going to turn into a scumread.

And you scumread me in Anything Goes. "But AP I thought you were actually scum!!!"

Yes. Thus, was playing like town. If I'm scum and know you to be town, I need to SAY you are town. If I'm scum and

actually think you are scum

, then I don't. You're proving my point, not dismantling it. It's as if I was playing multiball. In multiball, all the rules of my scumplay (well,

almost

all of them) get thrown out the window, as I am legitimately scumhunting. I was legitimately scumhunting you. If I was town, I probably would have ultimately backed down rather than gladiate you, re-evaluating. As scum, knowing who else was scum, I somehow thought you had to be scum, somehow, so didn't.

You're basically trying to set up that no-win scenario; you want there to be in a scenario where you're right no matter what, and can push that angle no matter what. I forget the name of what it's called (it's an old thing on the wiki--Loaded Question?), but the principle is just as sound now as it was then. It is not a town player trying to reason with another; it is a scum player trying to dismantle an argument.

UNVOTE:

Has to be the shortest "not moving my vote from this player, ever" on record.

[MastinSSK]

You are writing her off as bad town consistently no matter how hard and prolonged the push has been today.

(One of the main reasons I've thought him scum.)

I think mastin looks pretty transparent this game.

Yeah, you do.

...Your posting says otherwise, though. Best phrasing I can think of is, "Like hell you do in-thread". As in, you-as-scum are telling the absolute truth about me being painfully fucking transparent in-thread, but your posting, out of necessity, has made it so that you can't take this stance fully in-thread.

Basically, you

say

I am, yet your attitude towards me says otherwise.

[MastinSSK]

So I had a thought, before I begin reading the new stuff. I posted an "/AP theory" about the neighborhood being all-scum, but that got me thinking:
AP, well.
AP has...kinda pushed them all. He's pushing F-16 now, and has been. He's kinda sorta pushed Yggdra, though that's ambiguous. I seem to remember him having pushed DesBRO, too.
I know that he's technically also pushed Kagura/Nacho, but my memory of what his push is like is that it was different from how he pushed the others, and that the timing and way it was done were different.

This is not a thought that I've actually checked, but need to throw it out all the same.

/need to read 176-current.

[MastinSSK]

Yes, but still a scum pool all the same. My posting is more akin to how I'd expect a town-you to be handling a scumlist with those names.

[Mastin is strawmanning.]

I fail to see how. You had a POE list, used akin to a scum list. I had a similarly-formatted list, yet my handling of it was completely and entirely different.

So what of those 6 Poe scumreads (Cupcake, Yggdra, Kagura, PV, F-16, Red Gary) doesn't make sense?

Again not the point; my point isn't that the names make no sense at all, but rather, how you've handled them overall simply doesn't seem right. I wish the proper words were there to explain that. Though that said? If you want to get into reads that don't make sense in general...Cupcake you can say is anti-town, but you can't say is scum. Yggdra is arguably the same. F-16 as a scumread makes basically zero sense, either. The only three names there that even remotely are plausible are Nacho, PV, and Red Gyarados.

You have been arguing that you DONT scumread me as scum which is a lie.

Okay, better wording. I don't lie about my read. If I say I scumread you, I actually have somehow legitimately scumread you. Otherwise, I'm forced into a townread as scum.

Just saying, you conveniently forgot to bring up that you-scum has 100% motivation to scum kill RBD in this game.

Like fucking hell I would. Rancid was defending me. He wasn't going to suddenly stop defending me D2. He townread my SLOT in Paranoia. SLOT. Not me. (So did shos, and so did MTD. Part of the reason I won the damn game.) It's actually the same thing that happened in Too Many Heads. He had a minor townread on me...turned into a scumread as soon as I started posting more. That? That is

exactly

what would have happened if he saw my posting continue.

This game?

It's not been my slot.
It's been me.
Throughout the whole fucking game.

Not a single ping. Not a single shred of doubt in either head's mind. An absolute 100% that I'm town, above all their other reads. Why the fuck would I kill that? Okay. Maybe you could make the argument that I killed him for the wifom value. (It's a lousy fucking argument, but let's run with it.)
WHY THE FUCK.
WOULD I HAVE MY SCUMTEAM.
JANITOR THE FUCKING FLIP.

When Rancid-deadtown is a MASSIVE tactical advantage to this hypothetical scum-me, and a MASSIVE inconvenience to a hypothetical scum-me?

I need to think more on my Mastin read but I am not seeing the blogging as something Mastin can't fake.

Quite correct. I can post a lot of stream-of-conscious stuff as scum, ESPECIALLY when lacking daychat. (Since daychat = post thoughts in scum QT.) Still is a general trend, though. As town, I tend to empty my thoughts into the thread, especially if I don't have another place to dump them. (Technically I have a QT, but it's seen basically zero usage at all.)

I felt Mastin's initial attack on me was incredibly manipulative and scummy and that feeling still hasn't gone away but I am not as sure as I was before.

Well, I felt your initial buddying on Tammy was incredibly manipulative and scummy, and that your continued attacks on me and Rancid were scummy later-on, but I came around on those eventually.

As to what I hope to accomplish, I want all my townreads to get on the same page and agree on lynching someone that we genuinely all agree is scum, and preferably not have a repeat of D1 with bad deadline wagons.

*points to third page of iso*

This is basically what I've been trying to do as well. You've seen my townreads, and also know my scumreads. Essentially, AP and Nacho are the top two, and AP's in essentially most players' lynch lists, but never being voting by any of them. (In contrast to me, who has at times been voted by literally every fucking player alive. No, seriously. Name a single player alive who at a point in the game has not voted me. I can't think of any.)

[MastinSSK]

For me to buy that this is coming from mastin-town, I would have to buy that mastin, constantly and reanalyzing and reading posts and apparently playing at the top of her towngame goes from unshakeable town to scum on me when I imply she might possibly be scum (even though it was mentioned that I was considering her as scum earlier in the game but she somehow missed it) because she believes there is either a town!Nacho that reads her right or a scum!Nacho that reads her wrong, and her thinking wrt that is completely binary.

YOU ARE USING THINGS THAT I DID AFTER YOUR CHANGED READ TO JUSTIFY YOUR ORIGINAL CHANGE IN READ.

I have been constantly reanalyzing and rereading posts. And when I saw something that I know. KNOW. Doesn't come from a town-Nacho? You can bet your ass that I'm not going to miss it. Yes, I glazed over the references to your read on me. I caught F-16 (I think it was him) having mentioned it, and responded with ellipses. It might have been mentioned before that, too, and I brushed it off, since again, it wasn't from the source. It was essentially a second-hand talker, a talker who I knew would have biases, would have hesitancy in using exact wording from the QT, and thus, as a result, would not be conveying the accurate info. Or so I thought.

And then you essentially come in and don't say it was an overexaggeration...but an underexaggeration, and that your read on me is actually STRONGER than the implication had been. If this was some super-secret read that there was a hint at? Fuck yes, I could see it coming from a town-you. But there wasn't. No interaction. No hint. Nothing. Except suddenly, "oh, yeah, scumread, but not sure".

BEYOND THAT. There's your stance on me. Your stance on me couldn't have been a scumread, because you fucking derailed the lynch on me, onto others. That's not something you do for someone who's so much as null; it has to be at least a townread. And then! Then there's the real kicker.

Your neighbors have talked about your reads disagreeal with them

. Overnight. They said that you were basically fighting their reads. Not coming to a consensus. You were the odd man out, of the neighborhood.

...Yet now, on Day Two, you not only are blending in, but reversing around to having their same take on me?
No. No fucking way.

I haven't a great track record reading her as of late

Yes you have. You've correctly read me in every damn game we've had, recently. Last time I can remember you being wrong? Was Mindreader Mafia. A fucking year ago. When I was specifically manipulating you through your role. That's literally it. Every game since then. From Walking Dead to Xeno. You've had me correctly read. Your read on me isn't instantaneously correct, like AP's and zMuffinman's are. But they ARE correct, eventually.

She's going on rants about dreams she had last night.

Rambles, thankyouverymuch, and they accomplished a very specific thing. They let you know exactly where my mind has come from, and also contained a readchange in the form of PV. Furthermore, I HAVE reached out, to just about everyone.

Do you think your scumbuddies would risk themselves to defend you at this point?

Unless I specifically told them not to?
Fuck yes they would. A Mastin who is deadweight on the scumteam may be worthless. A Mastin who is basically spearheading scum's efforts, making up plans, manipulating the town, dividing them, and basically every fucking thing I've been accused of having done as scum? Fuck yeah, they'd save that, because there'd be no player more valuable to them. And furthermore, because of how active I've been, they could post that way and get away with it, easily maintaining that read legitimately.

Do you really think that I'm going to buy that you posting a bunch is a towntell when we pretty much destroyed effort =/= town together a very very long time ago?

Vaguely? Yes.
Read any scumgame of mine recently.
Last time I got this active as scum?
...Well, I've never been this active at all. Last time I got even close?
Anything Goes. You might make a case for Attack on Titan, but I really wasn't. You could also make cases for Too Many Heads and the lylo of Paranoia, but, well...those were LYLO. (Which of course I'm going to be more active in.) Other than that? Nope, not really, can't say that I have been.

I suppose all of this posting is not trying to figure you out.

DAMN FUCKING RIGHT IT'S NOT.
It's saying I'm scum and assuming I'm scum and building a case for me being scum. It's not a reach-out, not an attempt to understand, not an attempt to figure things out, not an attempt to work with me; it is explicitly going against me and explaining WHY you're going against me.

[MastinSSK]

If you were town and felt you were obvious town, you wouldn't feel this way. you would feel like you had just found scum-Nacho running out from his comfortable safety net from an obvtown position, and you would make it your singular goal to take me down and make yourself obvious town in everyone's eyes as a result.

You're saying I'm not going to do something...and then proceed to describe why by using me doing that exact fucking thing. My singular goal IS to take you down. But I'm no fool. The fucking votecount will tell you that much, and so does past experience. I said it way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in GvE, CvL, that I couldn't win the fight against you with you-as-scum and me-as-town. It's still just as true now as it was back then. I am not as charismatic. This is not a fight I enter with any chance at all of winning. Obvtown be damned! Yes, I'm fucking obviously town. Anyone reading my goddamned posting without confirmation bias, without emotional attachment, and putting so much as an iota of effort into reading my fucking mindset would be able to figure that out. Doesn't mean I'm going to win. Yes, I should. No, I won't.

Even if I didn't get lynched! I wouldn't be able to force the lynch onto you. But I will do my

damnedest

to make it happen.
Because while I don't know what exactly sparked the reveal, something did. And I'm willing to bet it's that I hit something that the scumteam desperately was hoping I wouldn't hit on. I don't know what, exactly, that would be. I only have my theories. But I know you're scum. I know AP's scum. And that's a damn-good starting point.

[MastinSSK]

You didn't plan to enter a 1v1 fight against me.

'Course not.

But I have a choice on whether to enter into it, no?

A scum-me would never even so much as attempt to risk it. A scuMastin if faced with a Nacho scumread? Will do everything in her power to switch that around. Plead. Beg. Reason. Misdirect. Use logic. Try to shake it. Push it elsewhere. NAME A SINGLE FUCKING SCUMGAME OF MINE WHERE I DIDN'T DO THIS. Can't? There's a goddamned reason for that; it's because that's how I act as scum and you damn-well KNOW it is.

But you as scum? Hell fucking yes, I am going to enter into that fight. Even knowing I'm going to lose. Even knowing most players aren't going to pay attention to my points after I die. For the chance. So much as the chance. That's all I really need, a chance however remote. That someone actually does listen, and realizes I was onto something.

[MastinSSK]

Has there ever been a game where mastin, as engaged town, has really been so lost in herself while simultaneously attempting to keep everyone else's egos in check? I have trouble imagining her not making ego checks every once in a while when she says things like what she said to BRO earlier.

THE EGO CHECKS.
ARE RIGHT FUCKING THERE.
IN MY FUCKING POSTING.

Ever since the third damn page of my iso has begun.

Yes, I've had relapses back in.
But I've been pulling myself out.
Constantly, and consistently.
Whenever I notice that compromisation.

And done damage control, trying to bridge the gap, to make the bad be turned into good. Most recently among them? Being how when I got furious at ffery, I ended up with a townread on Stalin whereas before they were a concern, considered as being scum. But then I took a step back. I put my feelings aside, and had a moment of clarity, where I realized that she was town.

YOU EVEN FUCKING SAW THAT QUOTE AND ITS EFFECT.

[MastinSSK]

Are you referring to the post where she told BRO never to play with her again if he was town?

Right, that.
Not exactly taking that back, by the way.
It's just been degraded from "never play with me again" to "never pretend you can read me again", a-la, Fate admitting that he gave up his right to read xRECKONERx a long time ago.

Still was probably emotionally compromised at that stage, albeit less so than earlier (and some of my later times).

And, yes. I fully realize that as I'm typing this, I'm in one of the more compromised states that I've been in for...quite a while.
But when up against Nacho's bullshit, well. I'm kinda losing my shit. Because everything he's saying is flat, hollow, faked, looking good and making sense on the surface, but which, well, I know to be bullshit. Not the best way to describe it, but best wording I can think of.

Ironically, I think it's AP who's said it best. Nacho's not reading my posts for reasons I might be scum, but rather, shooting down all points against why I couldn't be scum, while raising plenty of his own.

ffery threw her diplomat hat on the ground, and stomped on it. Repeatedly.

How so?

*points to her post*
She flat-out said she was done interacting with me. At all. Refusing to. Rejecting my points. Not listening to me. You can't get more spit-in-the-face-of-diplomacy than that.

You want ffery to run interference between the CF-JSU crowd and you, since she's acted as mediator earlier in the game for a pretty long time.

Except basically every fucking point she's made as a mediator? I made well before her. And I don't need her assistance there. Because F-16 is talking to me without her, and DesBRO wasn't townreading her at the time, meaning that'd be useless. I gain nothing from doing it as scum.

She starts to turn against you, you start to turn against her.

Where's me turning against DesBRO, F-16, Titan, or such? I don't "turn against" players scumreading me for the act of scumreading me. (Okay, I do...as scum. Not as town.) I "turn against" players who I had been thinking were town, that show something highly-uncharacteristic of what I was expecting of their towngame. Which most commonly, admittedly, manifests in suspecting me, but it's never the act of suspicion itself. It's how the suspicion is handled.

[MastinSSK]

And I hate how she talks about her emotions instead of shows them.

MY EMOTIONS.
ARE FLOWING THROUGH THE FUCKING KEYBOARD AS I SPEAK.
You can't hear the pounding. You can't feel the sweat on my hands, as I rest them on my laptop and feel them burning, not from the heat in the atmosphere, but from the rage on here. You can't see it. BUT YOU MOST CERTAINLY CAN SEE THEM ALL THE SAME.

The emotions are there. I bring them up to convey points, like that I was feeling frustrated with ffery, but said frustration made me realize she was and was town for it. They fucking BLEED through my posting. And I do occasionally reference them, especially when more calm. ("...And I got compromised again" or similar.) But they emotions. COULD NOT BE SHOWN ANY BETTER.

If "telling, not showing" was actually true, it'd be a valid point. But there's no way. No fucking way. You could think. For so much as a FRACTION of a second. That my emotions aren't shining. ALIGNMENT BE DAMNED. YOU DAMN-WELL KNOW I'M FEELING WHAT I'VE SAID.

See the fucking red, with dashes of yellow and orange? That's the color of rage. In calmer moments of Tranquil Fury, it might be various shades of blue, a fire still burning intensely with extreme heat, but subdued in visual keys, because it is more subtle. But you can't get a bigger bundle. A bigger pile. An absolute explosion. I've tried keeping it under control. I've tried being more reasonable. But it is really, really hard. Not to slip. When faced with bullshit like this. Words that sound good but are misapplied. That in a different context and circumstance would be town but in this one are scum.

[MastinSSK]

When she goes "Nacho isn't sorting me, my #1 priority is to sort [Nacho?]", then doesn't sort or engage me and goes on a dream rant, yes, it's scummy.

Fair point about me not focusing more on you. I got distracted. But I'm scumreading you. Harcore. I'd love to be wrong. But I'm not. Not on this. You've been saying you're trying to sort me with your words, but your actions are doing nothing but painting me as scum. (This would be hypocritical of me if I wasn't willing to admit that while I wanted to sort Nacho, I've already done so into scum. Basically, the difference is again not in the action, but how it was handled.)

I don't think town-Mastin procrastinates in digging into me when she has a goal and she has a need.

In general, procrastination is a nulltell. But guess what? Look at what my posting has been ever since you've come in. Exactly what you're saying, it's been fucking digging into you with a clear goal in mind.

Now you are arguing that mastin is being opportunistic in sheeping people's doubt on you for easy towncred and that shes not actually made any effort towards scumhunting you. I don't really have a good response for either of those.

If this were to be an accurate summary, then it's absolutely bullshit, since there's one thing.
ONE. Damn. thing.
That above all else.
Nacho would know about a scum me.

I don't give a damn about how viable or not-viable a push is. I'll develop my read on my own fucking time, and say what you will, but my reads are NEVER opportunistic. Fuck, they're rarely even possible-to-BE-opportunistic, and even if they were, then they were not made out of opportunism, but rather, because I chose to make the read change.

"I don't really trust anyone" *next line* "I'm basically trusting you".

Why do you think that's scummy?

Well, AP's defense of the point was fair, but why I thought it was scummy should be painfully fucking obvious, because it showed to me an inconsistency in thought pattern that wasn't something I saw coming from town.

And again. Really, really. Don't think. AP would ever truly consider. An actual policy-lynch.

Why not?

Aside from it being against what I know about AP in general? It also goes against AP's belief about ME in general.

The distraction would be nothing but a waste of time for scumAP: why would he pursue it?

Well, aside from me disagreeing with it being nothing but a waste of time, I can list a myriad of different reasons why AP would pursue it.

Are you SCUMREADING me over this?

No, I'm scumreading you because you're scum.
/actual circlejerk.

(More seriously, I'm not actually sure how to properly articulate my current reasons for scumreading AP, really. His mindset not making sense. His interactions. His overall play simply seeming off.)

[MastinSSK]

Brian's post resonates with me and re-inforces my townread.

You know, logically, I actually agree with this. Brian Skies's posts actually look really, really good and make me want to townread them. But I can't help but think that my gut-feeling was right. In part because of POE off of other feelings, and in part because Nacho went ballistic (ha) on me after I revealed my Red Gyarados-is-a-scum-vig theory.

-Nacho is town and I'll never support anything resembling a lynch on him

And after I flip town, reading his posting about me knowing his history with me, what then?

-I don't like anything AP did recently. his entire push on CF sucks ass

I'll lynch AP in a heartbeat. Would you? 'Cause you've been voteparking me basically the entire game in spite of scumreading other players.

-mastin has literally ACKNLOWLEDGED she's been flooding the thread with bullshit and her response to that is? continue flooding the thread with bullshit. sounds legit

Yes.

I'd pay cash money for a vig shot on mastin right now just to stop all the fucking posts

...Which would be a waste of money, considering, y'know. Bulletproof.

She literally does not give a shit about working with town and the health of town as a collective.

Admittedly. During more emotional times. I haven't.

But when sane?

THIS IS THE ENTIRETY OF MY FUCKING POSTING. Read my damn iso on page three.
NOTHING.
BUT.
REACH-OUT.
AFTER.
FUCKING.
REACH-OUT.

FALLING. ON. GOD. DAMNED. DEAF. EARS.

[MastinSSK]

So, a couple years ago, in two separate games in which Mastin was scum in both. At the same time, she had dreams about the game and they both involved her being the hero of the game. Now a lot of people dream about mafia. I dream about mafia all the time and reference in it games when it happens, but I can't help but remember the last two times I saw Mastin have these grandiose dreams which were metaphors for what she was supposed to do in the game, she was scum.

Yes. So did I. And I knew you were in the game that I did it two years ago.

Don't give a shit. 'Cause being worried about my posting matching scumposting is...my scum meta. And I don't give a damn about a post resembling a scumgame, since I know it isn't.

Another concern I had about Mastin was that her whole development into the town leader persona felt like she was telling a narrative about herself which was the same thing she did in ETL's resistance where I was scum with her.

There's a difference between creating a narrative (scumplay) and discovering (or thinking you've discovered) an existing one (townplay). In this case, I realized what was happening in the game. And have done my damnedest to maintain control, to be more civil and be more, well, like a leader should be. Because I saw it as being healthy.

But that? Is increasingly hard to maintain. When literally every fucking button that can be pressed about me. Is being pressed. Nacho's raised quite a few of mine, in fact, and I'm actually surprised that my posting is even remotely at the level of civility it's at right now because of it. (I'm attributing it slightly to my exhaustion, given that it's already 3 am, I started working on this game at...what, 1:30?...and am still not even close to being done.)

But, his whole scum don't make/like noise point is trash. Scum love noise.

No

.

I could rant. I can ramble. Write a fucking mid-game MD article on this bullshit. But no word says it better than that. Maybe some scum do. But to me? Noise is just as much a fucking anti-scum thing as it is for the town, except in specific circumstances where it can be of use.

it's just bad play to completely trust RBD's read - even if RBD is town, there's still a good chance mastin was able to fool him.

I HAVE NEVER FUCKING SAID TO TRUST HIS READS ENTIRELY. SIMPLY TO NOT FUCKING DISCARD THEM AS WORTHLESS AS THEY HAVE BEEN.
And bullfuckingshit is there a "good chance" I could fool Rancid.

Not a chance in fucking hell that I get by that radar. Two.
LITERALLY FUCKING TWO.
Players. Out of all the god-damned players I've ever played with. Ever.
Have that perfect accuracy.

And he's one of them.
I HAVE TRIED FOOLING HIM.
MULTIPLE FUCKING TIMES.
Never has worked. And let's say for a miniscule second that zMuffinman wasn't sure about me. He has Natirasha there to back him up. Which while it might sound trivial, is anything but; it was one of the main fucking factors contributing to their success in Attack on Titan. And also Too Many Heads.

it also directly contradicts her stance he's been pushing all game about being successfully able to manipulate people as scum.

People, yes.
One specific person, fuck no.
BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ZMUFFINMAN AND SOME RANDOM FUCKING SCUMMER. Or scummers in general. I can fool players in general. I canNOT. Literally CANNOT. Fool THAT specific player.

[MastinSSK]

But yeah, if you and Rancid are scum together, I don't think in most cases, you would want them janitored and that's not my issue.

But it should be.
Rancid's town and was Janned?
His reads were fucking important, and it also goes against what a scuMastin would do.
Rancid's scum and was janned by town? Then why the fuck hasn't the town come forward with a BIG FUCKING HUGE relevant piece of info?
Rancid's town and was janned by town? Same thing, and also adds in Rancid's reads being fucking important.
Literally the only scenario where there's anything even remotely "Mastin is a serious scum candidate" is exactly that, a scum-not-really-dead.

The "

I don't think Rancid was scum but Mastin is

" is an unconventional idea that resonated at some level because not many brought up that idea before but it does make sense if Muffin had a misread and Mastin was milking it for everything it's worth (and of course I buy that Mastin wouldn't janitor him).

Try everyone in your neighborhood since D2 began? And Stalin, in particular.

He is thinking past the kind of tells that he would be expected to use.

...That, uh. Describes scum behavior, not town behavior.

[MastinSSK]

What if Mastin's actually town though and Nacho is using the suspicion on Mastin to get a lynch? AP would be scum in that case discrediting everything Mastin says but wanting to look good on a Mastin townflip.

...Which is exactly what I've been saying.

It would fit in with Mastin's role at least and explain some of the movements that have been going around the game.

Also something I said earlier. >_<

Mastin, is it completely impossible that Muffin as scum had a "townread" on you and helped you make all the pushes you made so that he could look good to you? What makes you so certain that they were town?

It'd be a lie to say it was impossible. 99.99% improbable, though, yes. zMuffinman did say it himself, that his alignment regardless, he'd be forced to townread me with me-as-town. However, the everything about them is town.

I wrote the first part of the Ballad of Tales about aspects in their posting that looked town and talked about my history. The only things I didn't cover was Rancid's overall play, and how it is insanely town. Anyone who knows how to read zMuffinman and/or Nati should have been able to pick up on things, and simply on just how damn genuine they were in their posting, their stances, their everything. If such bets were feasible, quite frankly, I'd be willing to make a promise to retire for a number of months from playing mafia if I was wrong about them, simply because I am SO damn sure that if I was wrong then I'd have issues too damn large for me to ignore.

Your unmoving read on them is one of the things that concern me since I feel pretty good about them scum for the most part.

Bluntly, you don't have the history I do with him. They were town. They always were. If you ignored their literal actions and looked at their mindset thinking about what they would be thinking, you'd realize. They had emotions. They had thoughts. A progression. That was purely from town.

I don't think their attacks on me, JSU, Fox, or Titan were at all convincing.

And frankly, they would likely have been more convincing if Rancid WAS scum.

Where has he misrepped anyone?

A lot of places, but most recently, on Titan. No longer thinking he's scum, though.

Also, why would I shoot someone I was townreading yesterday?

Me? I dunno. Rancid? Because you threatened him.

Secondly, me calling you a 'mafia treestump' was a joke.

A joke that happened to perfectly predict that I was a treestump.

Your vote was crossed off and in red. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that you're essentially a treestump at that point in time.

Vote crossed off in red is voteless but with voice. Treestump carries the specific connotation of being immune to death.

Finally, why are you insinuating that I shot you when I'm pretty sure you heavily implied that you activated it yourself (maybe, I'd have to check up on that)?

My role's passive, not active.

[MastinSSK]

Mastin are you ignoring nachos push on you?

No, but generally, it's a safe assumption that my thoughts are presented linearly. That is, anything coming after what I quote doesn't exist yet in my mind. (Which is why I sometimes say that I thought of an idea first, it just got posted second. ) Meaning my response had to wait until I actually saw his bullshit.

[MastinSSK]

And it's 4 AM in the morning. (4:15, actually.)
And I haven't done a damn thing except this game, when there's a whole iota of things that I NEED to do thanks to leaving for the competition.

...This is gonna be an all-nighter. :/

I've spoken my mind here, though. I don't have anything else to say for the moment. Other than to listen to my damn posting and read my damn mindset and track the thoughts I've been having. And that right now, I'm thinking AP-Nacho-orc-Red Gyarados.

[MastinSSK]

Pretty much the primary thing making me think you -could- be scum is burden of proficiency at this point but Im thinking this is just Mastin:SC/BRO::Mastin:AP/Nacho.

I'm totally calling everyone in this game scum at some point or another and making as many crazy theories as I can, so that when the game is over, no matter what, I can pull them up from my iso and go, "A-HA! You shoulda listened to me."















But seriously. While I have the time, technically, to read and respond to the more recent posting, I really need to do some prep work before I leave, and should really, really, REALLY take a nap since I'm working on zero hours of sleep right now.
I'll do so when I'm able to. (Worst case, on Monday.) Soyeah, don't lynch me before then.

[MastinSSK]

Still need to read stuff, but figured I might as well post what I just did to SSK. (With one or two minor edits.)

Something I will say here, though.
Is that I'm really, really sick.

Really freakin' sick.
Of people saying that they know what my scumgame is.
Without focusing on what actually drives my scumgame.

My scumgame this year (for the most part) has been top-notch. I've masterfully manipulated players. I've had plans. I've beautifully orchestrated the downfalls of towns, in ways that they would never expect, even if they expect me to be scum. It may sound arrogant, but bluntly, I've felt as if my scumgame has taken such leaps and bounds this year to be frankly at scummy-level performances. Because I come up with plans, dang-good plans, and execute them near-flawlessly. And they are all driven by the singular desire of manipulating circumstances to be favorable for my scum faction.

And even players who should really freakin' know this are not paying attention to it. Are not thinking about how it factors in. Aren't thinking about what my plan would be, but beyond that, aren't thinking about what manipulation would be in my posts (hint: I never emotionally manipulate as either alignment intentionally; it's a despicable tactic), and what could make me scum with favorable circumstances.

No. I'm scum for this. Scum for that. Random reasons that are artificial. Hollow. Empty. Superficial. Even from town players, that's true. Some random 'tell' they're convinced is meaningful. A vague similarity of one post of mine to one post of mine in another scumgame, ignoring what drove the post in both.

(Had a nice, long, nap. But still need to do final preparations to leave, soyeah. Leaving soon.)

[MastinSSK]

So SSK wanted to do stuff, but couldn't think of anything to say. However, he did have one thing, and I would love to communicate it.
Message from SSK (paraphrased to be from my perspective rather than his):
Those saying, "Get over it" to my (that is, Mastin's) having been "caught" can go fuck themselves. They all just assume that they know me. They know the motivations for every single one of my actions but they're just simplifying it down to "Oh, Mastin's just scum." No. SSK, frankly put, said that I'm smarter than he is, and that everyone should have realized that it's never that simple. That the quirks in my play are what make it shine. Hell, it's whole damn reason he wanted to hydra with me in the first place: to see my thought process in intimate detail, that real-time feedback with full knowledge of who I am.

And he's not happy with others, either. He ended it on a humbling note for himself and boosting my ego, by saying that he's not good at mafia, but that I am, and deserve credit for it that I'm not getting.

His message concludes.

...But while I can safely say "thank you for not mislynching me over the weekend", to which I am grateful for, unless those scumreads disappeared over the weekend, I'm telling you to go straight to hell anyway.

/has ~15 pages of catch-up to do, if memory serves.

[MastinSSK]

Or nearly twenty. (Whelp.) Over the weekend, I had a couple of moments, where I briefly thought I could channel zMuffinman when returning, especially about something present in my game that is absent in Nacho's analysis, basically a "this is me, and you really should know it's me", but I can't remember what thoughts spurred this out and even this explanation kinda sucks. Does make me kinda sorta think of this, though.

When a player is your top suspect, you pursue them with a single minded aggression that never stops until something drastic happens: you cast doubt on every claim they make, you give people town points for voting them.

This is a surprisingly one-dimensional take on the matter, especially coming from Nacho.

When a player is MY top suspect, I'll let it be known. Depending on the confidence level, I might have different tactics. Scumread's only kinda sorta there, then I'll likely be engaging them casually and mentioning them as scum casually to others, vaguely prodding and poking around. I'm looking to solidify things at that point, to figure out things and whatnot. I'm also deeply interested in interactions--not necessarily reading them (yet), so much as noting their existence.

Scumread's very strongly there, and I'll be advocating quite strongly for that lynch. I'll still engage the target, explaining why I think they're scum to them, but I'm mainly focused on letting other people see what I see, and I put a lot of weight into things. And other slots? Don't contribute to my read on them at all. Okay, that's a lie. They do. It's just minimalistic, involving the context, circumstance, and mindset behind things. For instance, a scum player supporting me early-on against a scumread means said scumread is likely wrong, whereas if a player is flipped scum but I got support early-on, there's a much heavily inclination to townread them. (Again, explanation kinda sucks; still a bit drained.)

So while I might throw out an "okay, town" reaction to voting my scumspect (actually, now that I think about it, that word was the trigger--people scumspecting me, and my thought was about Rancid and me, but I can't recall exactly how), it's just that, a kneejerk reaction to what that means, and you can bet your damnedest that I'm going to be looking at the mindset of the person. Probably not immediately, but in the near-future, certainly, figuring out why they voted with me and if it was scum-oriented or town-oriented.

So Nacho's portrayal seems a lot more simplified than it should be.

[MastinSSK]

Carbon was an on and off scum read of your lord Rancid so I'm not quite sure why you think AP couldn't interpret his posting as scummy.

Because Rancid had a mental breakdown when he realized that F-16 was town yet posting the way he was.

Okay, better wording. I don't lie about my read. If I say I scumread you, I actually have somehow legitimately scumread you. Otherwise, I'm forced into a townread as scum.

And you don't treat reads on me the same way?

Yes, I do treat you the same way. If I were to get a legitimate scumread on you, I'd legitimately scumread you even as scum. A fact made impossible by this setup explicitly being 4v13 and a scum-me knowing my scumbuddies. Thus, as scum, I cannot be legitimately scumreading you. I can 'scumread' you if I felt the need to force a 1v1, but as discussed, that is something a scum me would NEVER do.

Fuck "you had no choice"; yes I fucking did. Fuck "you were desperate"; desperation is where I begin to shine as a scum player. (To be frank? One of the main reasons that I'm kinda lacking motive to play scumgames to 100% of my ability is that I've simply gotten

so damn

good

at being scum that unless faced with a serious obstacle, I basically go into cruise control.) And I don't mean 'suddenly win arguments'. I never win a proper 1v1. Ever. Look at every fucking scumgame of mine, ever. If it came down to a 1v1, I LOST. And always do. So fuck "you'd enter into it as a challenge", too, since there's a difference between doing something challenging and doing something SUICIDAL. (No, seriously. Search for any fucking game where it was 3p lylo and the voting came down explicitly to me vs. the other. As scum, I have always. Always. ALWAYS. Been on the losing end. Same fucking thing for 4p mylo; if it came to a 1v1, I lost. As just one example off the top of my head, Resistance Mafia. As another, the third-most-recent game I ICd was a scum-IC game where in 3p lylo, I got voted; I lost. There's a metric ton of examples, where if there's flexibility and doubt, I win, and where if there's zero breathing room and a straight clear-cut 50/50, I lose.)

Entering into a 1v1 is something that I hate. Hate. HATE. Doing as scum. It's why the break of the town in the Mastin Gambit came from me halfheartedly defending a mislynch, and obviously having done so in said halfhearted manner. (If I pulled the Mastin Gambit properly in Anything Goes at some point other than the gladiate, I suppose that counts as a break in it, too, butyeah. See above, on legitimately scumreading the slot. If as scum, you're 100% convinced there will be no fallout from a lynch...of course you're going to 1v1.)

But as town?
Bring it on.

[MastinSSK]

I want to talk to someone about Clyton. He is the nullest of null-reads to me.

Admittedly, Clyton

kinda

dropped off my radar, which you'd think would set off red flags about the slot and would normally do so, quite badly, but no, I'm actually townreading him. I felt the whole way he interacted with me was highly town, and overall, it left me quite satisfied about him. There's a niggle of paranoia here and there, I suppose, but he's been highly town. Additionally, the only reasons he's not been posting more are V/LA and neighborhood combo, which again, offer the perfect reason for his having dropped down.

So yes Im actually pretty stunned by your play in this game, its been a fairly earth shattering experience for my opinion of your playstyle.

You know what's been different about my play this game, from all others?

One singular thing.
One thing. Only one.

Effort. Care. I have put more time. devotion. heart and soul. into this game than any other player. That's it. Nothing else is different. However many hours you think you've put into the game, I can guaranfuckingtee I've put in more. Probably spending six hours a day on it, on average. No other game of mine has ever had that much of an investment in it. Ever. Not even close. Even when I made failed attempts at writing the grandiose cases in 2010, that couldn't have been more than a couple of hours a day.

But my sleep schedule was shot to hell because of this game. (I essentially had stomach problems throughout the weekend, likely attributed to my circadian rhythm having been thrown out of whack by an all-nighter.) And not just sleep. That's the midnight aspect of my posting. I've almost been late for work. When I already (for reasons unrelated to mafia) got dinged for that earlier, I risked it for this fucking game. And not just work. School, too. When I'm supposed to be working on problems for my college classes, I've been working on solving the fucking problem of THIS game. And not just there, either. I've tuned out television shows that I used to devote my 100% full attention to (e.g. Warehouse 13) in order to multitask...on this fucking game. I've left hastily on activities I used to linger around on, just so that I could snare that extra 5-10 minutes...for this fucking game.

And fuck this being called a long-winded AtE. It is a fucking emotional post, but there's zero fucks given about appealing to others. Because if they can't see that? If they can't see that fucking effort. And devote one second. One iota of thought. And ask themselves WHY. Why I would do that. As scum. Then there's no fucking need for an appeal, because there's no reaching them.

I've given games my 100% as scum. And those games? Involved me lurking a fair bit. Because activity, because noise, is not inherently scum-sided.

Pretty much the primary thing making me think you -could- be scum is burden of proficiency at this point but Im thinking this is just Mastin:SC/BRO::Mastin:AP/Nacho. Fuck, Nacho could even be scum, I dunno.

And again. AP's scum. So is Nacho.

[MastinSSK]

No, just not a scumtell, either. Lurking is lurking. It is player, context, and circumstance-dependent on what alignment (if any) to assign it. With Katsuki, it vaguely points towards Kats being town.

Oh and clicking that link brought me back to all the Replica CC nonsense which makes me want to lynch CF again >.>

Speaking of CF, and speaking of flavor...know something I just realized, AP?

I don't think you ever claimed your flavor for your abilities.
For that matter, I don't think orc did, either.

Do correct me if I'm wrong.

Like fucking hell that was. His post was entirely separated from the discussion on him, and blatantly obviously so.

Something I will say here, though.
Is that I'm really, really sick.

Really freakin' sick.
Of people saying that they know what my scumgame is.
Without focusing on what actually drives my scumgame.

I say this with all love Mastin, but in the games, I don't really care. I care more about figuring out IF you are scum.
But, would love to see an MD thread titled "The Driving Forces Behind Mastin's Scumgame- 2014 Edition".

I'd make it right now if it wasn't so self-serving to me for ongoing games, but sure. You can have it. Because my scumgame has improved by leaps and bounds as of recently. The basics of it, though, are quite pathetically simple. The aim of a scum me is to get a scum win as fast as possible. Generally, this involves minimal bussing, and also minimal spotlight on scum players. I may distance or even bus-vote a scum player (it's become a necessity with people wising up to my no-bussing meta), but I avoid making a spectacle out of it, because spectacles draw very-much-unwanted attention. I suppose you could sum it up with a single sentence:
The main driving factor of a scum Mastin is to place town players (not scum players) in the spotlight.

Because while you'd think that could invoke a "for worse", it's near-universally "for better", since townVtown fights are a given natural. Keep the town players fighting town players while I blend into the background? Game, set, match. It's how I won Paranoia, it's how I won Book of Shadows, it's how I ALMOST won Attack on Titan, it's how I've basically dominated nearly every scumgame I've been in--by letting town players fight town players, while I avoid taking the heat...or IF I take the heat, having it not lead back to my scumbuddies.

It's the conviction that she's showing!

Conviction's not exactly a towntell of mine, you know. I can show 'absolute belief' as scum. The difference isn't in the belief, but how the belief was reached and how it's been pushed. (For instance, aside from legitimate scumreads, if it looks like I reached the belief, really, really reached it and didn't simply decide it was a good idea to have it? Town. If I simply decided it was a good read to have? Scum. Which is why I say that alignment be damned, I push whoever I please. It's the motive that differentiates it. As scum, because it's something I wanted to do; as town, because it's something I

need

to do.)

The only thing that makes me hesitate is mastin is a much craftier scum player than I am and would probably be able to sound like she has this conviction way more naturally than I think I would be able, but it just sounds so real.[/quote] If I'm that crafty a scum player, why the fuck has there been suspicion on me not only all of today, but also most of yesterday?

Answers of, "because we caught you?", "because that's how the wind blew", "because this game was too skilled", or similar simply aren't fucking acceptable, since they fly in the fucking face of just those damn words, of me being a crafty scum player.

I'm not saying it's impossible to run up a scum-me. I AM saying that (assuming I have the time to plan and execute a plan--which this game, I most certainfuckingly have) when a scuMastin is run up, it is done with design and intent. For instance, in Attack on Titan, I was the least-valuable scum player. I set things up so that ideally, we'd have a perfect win...but ALSO so that IF a scum player were to die, it'd be me...
...AND that it wouldn't incriminate either of my scumbuddies. My reads, their design, their whole orchestration (because my play as scum is a fucking artform), was such that I had painted a highly-favorable picture for the scumteam of that game.

Which, again, is why I ask about it. I control. I DOMINATE. The game as scum. I'm in the background, rather than the foreground, BEING the one controlling how the winds blow, helping to determine the skill of the players in the game, analyzing them, predicting them, and setting them up. I don't shout, "Look at me! Look at me! Looky, looky, look this way!" as scum. (That's not to say I can't have a strong presence. Always do, even as scum. But that's another aspect of the difference between whimsy-me and scum-me. Whimsy-me commands attention to be the hero. A scum-me requests attention as an act, to play a part that is

expected

of me. So while a town-me will be all whimsical about the 'lookit, lookit!', a scum me is rehearsing a script.)

[MastinSSK]

Thoughts about that game cheer me up whenever I am starting to get a little annoyed at this one.

And here, I am proud of this game.

That might seem a bit unusual a take.
But right or wrong.
I can say that for sure.
I am proud, not ashamed, of what I've been doing this game.
It's frustrating, yes. But I never look back to my towngames and reminisce about the past in them. I always think, "I can do better!"
And that's why I'm proud this game. It might seem like something highly unusual. But I am

absolutely

proud of this game. Even if it turns out that I was an utter, total, entire, complete failure in every aspect. Because I? I am proud of my failures just as much (if not more) than I am of my successes. Because they prove that aspect of me. That, yes. I can do better. I can go farther. I can improve on this. I didn't do that very well. And of course, as with most games, I can also point out I did this well, and that fairly decently, too.

So anti-town aspects be damned, still proud. It just means that they need to be 'removed' next time. (I use quotation marks, because it's not so much that any aspect of my play here needs to be removed, so much as it is...refined. I happen to think I very well could have DAMN good reads, here. They feel right, in more ways than just one. But even if I have total accuracy, it'd be delusional to not also see the bad in the play. And those things can be limited.)

Our major ah ha over the last 24 or so hours is that we have 3 bet the farm town reads.

So do I--their names were Rancid, Mac, and LB.

(Couldn't resist.
More seriously, Tammy's basically the only living one I can think of off the top of my head. F-16's basically there, too. DesBRO are townreads that I'm 100% certain of, but this is "bet the farm", which involves betting on more than their alignment, but also on how they handle things, ans while I trust Tammy and F-16, experience has told me not to trust DesBRO.)

He knows he has a pretty good tell on me based on that game and he went back and checked my read on PV to make sure it makes sense before figuring out that this matched up with my town play. It fits exactly with how I'd expect him to read me. Also, his hesitance about BRO townreading me makes sense as well. I thought his reasoning (at least with regards to me was well-thought out).

Though these explain a thought process, they don't write an alignment on said thought process for me. What about this is something that Brian Skies wouldn't do as scum?

Nacho am I town, scum, or fptslbooa?

Scum. Unless you die soon!

You want an example of ACTUAL scum-cross-distancing, but pushing elsewhere? You know, "scum theater"? It's this whole exchange. AP's interactions with Nacho, and vice-versa, are all incredibly flat.

[MastinSSK]

Also, fuck people saying I'm the one producing a lot of noise.

You made twenty fucking pages while I was away, without my help at all. That activity isn't going to mysteriously vanish overnight, you know. It's going to continue without me just as much.

So that point about me is also bullshit. On a related note,

While town as a whole not having a decisive direction, or even multiple decisive directions is nice, it's a volatile state. And I think it means that there aren't that many town players who are vulnerable to mislynch. Most of the players who could be considered lynchbait really aren't in this playerlist, if that makes sense.
How would you as scum tackle this gamestate?

It's pathetically easy. Stay out of the spotlight. Keep townblocs from forming, and induce paranoia in them. For instance, if players are absolutely convinced that they have a townbloc, just with a Thor in it (oh gods, I'm actually using that)...emphasize the need to find the Thor, which induces enough paranoia to break the townbloc into smithereens. Keep the town divided into camps, and have scum on both sides of the camp. Keep cards spread out, so that when necessary, you can chose to stack the deck.

Whereas this kind of scenario in a smaller game sent me into a panicky, "Nacho! Help! Please!" me state...
...In a larger game, this kind of scenario puts a wide grin on my face, as my brows narrow and my fingers hover above the keys of my laptop, eagerly waiting.

...A copout answer would be to point to players I think as scum and say, "See, like this" with a brief explanation, and point to my posting and say, "most certainly not like this".

GIFPie, DespBRO and Orcinus. Beli's actually more bet the farm about Orcinus than I was before we talked.

That's unexpected.

Not really.

I mean, the orc read feels absolutely godawful, and Beli being the one pushing it IS unexpected, but these names being there, not so much.

This is part of my hesitation in scumreading weaker players in this game. I feel like this wouldn't be the sort of gamestate we would be in if the scum were mostly less active or less skilled players.

It should be noted that the current gamestate really only kicked in after AP replaced in, and that both Nacho and orc were fairly lurkish at the time. Heck, even Red Gyarados was reducing activity at the time.

Basically, there's a marked difference where this game went from normal to explosion, from coherent to divided, from friendly to hostile, and it's marked at basically that point. I haven't done fact-checking; this is by memory. And this is something that you

could

argue correlation != causation, but just saying, I think that it gives you a perfect answer.

Do you think we would be here if the scumteam was PV, Orc, RG, etc?

One or two of them?

Yes.

Partly due to the distraction element, and due to all the offshoots that are hard to feel one way or the other about. But I'm also concerned about the fallout for town if Mastin is town.

As mentioned, the distraction element is bullshit, since you spammed plenty while I wasn't here and will spam plenty more when I'm not here forever. It won't stop just because I'm gone. If anything? If anything, it'll get fucking worse. Know why? 'Cause everyone has it in their minds that I'm scum. That's one reason they're not posting even MORE. Is because they already have that.

...And when I don't flip scum? There's that "oh, shit" moment. When they realize. That every fucking thing in their world. Revolved around that singular aspect. That wasn't true. And now? They've got nothing. And need to figure things out. And know what that means? Posting. LOTS. Of posting. Lots of distractions. Uncertainty. And so on and so forth.

And this is why I asked to be investigated in the first place, too. 'Cause a BP town player? Is gamebreakingly powerful if cleared. 'Cause guess what? That provides that focus. No distractions. A player there that can always be relied on, to direct people. And players can always fall back onto being town, safely, without paranoia, and ALSO without said player dieing overnight.

[MastinSSK]

If Mastin flipped town my reads on desbro, nacho, pie and maybe you might feel in flux. That might be because of neighborhood, but I would be looking at all of you cross-eyed trying to figure out which one of you were scum pulling everyone's strings.

That's easy. Listen to emotions and how they can't be faked (DesBRO), but have been absent from a specific player. (Nacho.) Listen to reasoning, posting, vibe, mindset, and overall trajectory (for lack of a better term) present (F-16), and for their absence. (Nacho.) Then listen to things like meta and stubbornness (pie), which while not *as* strong still vaguely point one direction. (Nacho.)

My scumplans usually depend on the playerlist and who my partners are. I think the ideal is to survive and win but I always try to make contingency plans. For instance in Wicked, Malakittens, Nacho and I set it up for 5P LYLO as if it was one of {Mala, NotScience}, or {Nacho & me, CES & Fenchurch hydras} so that even if one of us went down, the other would win 3P LYLO. One of the plans I am proud of being involved in because all three of us worked it out so that there is no way we could lose. I think if I had scumbuddies that were really good but weren't partnered with me as a hydra in the same slot, I'd spend more of an effort to create fake interactions but considering the team in Wicked, most of my initial planning went into making our slot survive and getting Cabd and Penguin (and later Mina) to townread us. Cabd probably hates me for it.

You know, F-16. You're describing my scumplay style, here. Yet it doesn't feel like you've fully applied that logic to this game and thought, "Okay, how does Mastin's posting fit that mindset?"

Also, why was I blocked?

Your target was me but it failed.
Seemed like you weren't blocked to me!

I want to lynch this cheeky clown fuck

So why HAVEN'T you?

The direction is pretty much mastin getting lynched. There has been no other direction.

(Which, again, I'd like to point out is why I'm town. Because if I was scum? You could be DAMN sure I'd have another direction we

could

choose, even if ultimately I told my scumbuddies to go with this one.)

[MastinSSK]

With 14 players alive, it will take 8 votes to lynch or nolynch.
MastinSSK (5): Just Sheep Us, PeregrineV, Yggdra Union, orcinus_theoriginal, CupcakePanda
Nachomamma8 (2): Red Gyarados, MastinSSK
CupcakePanda (1): The Fox and the Hound
PeregrineV (1): Titan
Not Voting (5): Nachomamma8, Carbon Fiber, Clyton, Breakfast With Stalin, AP

That said, me not being dead by now does make me wonder. I mean, AP can't hop on without it being a scumclaim. Nacho can, though. Red Gyarados is the doubt factor. (Also, the legitimacy of Katsuki's vote; I recall it being vote: Mafiatitan, which would be ambiguous if true.)

I probably waffled very little this game, particularly my pushing the Rancid wagon was probably tunneling. I'm considering the possibilities of course, as in "what if Mastin is town" because the last time I did that when I suspected him, I ended up realizing he was in fact town.

Which, you dummy, means that I am town.

That's part of the reason I am still scumreading Rancid is that their wagon was harder to push despite a more prolonged and sustained push than counterwagons like Orc and I think scum would want to push the wagon that is not on them.

If the scum are the wagons, though, like on AP or orc...what then? Then the Rancid push makes total sense. I'll put things in a different way.

Rancid's the true distraction this game. I say that not arbitrarily; it's proven by their flip being janned. The town gets nothing from it. Rancid had a lot of posting, so good things he said were likely to be lost. There were people who wanted him lynched just to see his flip, and that vital piece of info was denied to us. The wagon on him was a part of that. Scum would push it enough to distract from them, but likely knew it wouldn't go through. It was a transition. A temporary thing, to use as an advantage, to divide the town and get attention away from them.

I'm not sure this is the best explanation, but I think you can get what I'm getting at. Rancid most certainly was town. Meaning that pushing talk onto him (even if it's not a scumread) was serving a scum goal, not a town one.

Now ORC was a Betelgeuse.

[MastinSSK]

I think that assuming a wagon that doesn't form easily is a wagon on scum is a dangerous assumption.

However, the inverse when it comes to MASTIN...most certainly is. Assuming I'd let myself get wagoned easily (and yes, it would fucking be 'letting myself') as scum is a dangerous assumption.

I just felt like the general idea being pushed that there is no direction besides Mastin's lynch was a bit inaccurate. It is actually too easy to push in a different direction.

Oh? Really now.

Name a single wagon that has gained and kept momentum long enough to even be considered a fucking counterwagon to me. If it were so fucking easy to push in a different direction...why the fuck hasn't there been a strong push in a different direction?

The closest you've gotten is me pushing AP and me pushing Nacho, but being divided between the two.

[MastinSSK]

Nacho feels town-town-town-town-town during this whole thing.

When I saw your plea, I townread it.

And while I'll admit there's a gut-reaction to vaguely think about Nacho's posting that way, I can't. I see it as maybe being town, but the thought that Nacho just wants to play with Tammy his alignment regardless also entered my mind, and can't leave. /confirmation bias.

And their interactions with each other feel really weird for two players who supposedly are able to read each other really well.

You mean the bit where I'm scumreading him and he's townreading me?

Hint: we're both telling the truth.

I'd like to note Brian Skies scumreading AP but not voting there, too. In fact, there's a lot of strange interactions between the three (four if you add in orc), and it's really looking like a scumteam.

[Not scumreading PV] Because...?

...My dream told me not to?

If you could get into my head and see how I feel about the game, it's something I think would be difficult for scum to "replicate".

Thus, my posting. Since I? Feel exactly the same fucking way, ESPECIALLY when it comes to Rancid.

(Posting this 'cause Nacho responding to me likely to tick me off and prove my point but should be separated.)

[MastinSSK]

I agree you didn't kill him. I can see your team janitoring the flip if someone shot him since Rancid-scum's a massive inconvenience to you, and having the confidence that you can janitor the first one of you two's flip means that you're not afraid to buddy to shit like you did D1. But you're correct, you didn't kill him.

So basically, you're arguing that Rancid and I are both scum, and that we have a jan power we used on Rancid, but explicitly did NOT kill him.

...

YOU ARE USING THINGS THAT I DID AFTER YOUR CHANGED READ TO JUSTIFY YOUR ORIGINAL CHANGE IN READ.

My current read on you is pretty much composed of your reaction to me scumreading you, how uncomfortable you are with me pushing you. My read before that? It wasn't strong. Townread started dying when everyone else seemed more town, and when you stopped hitting the notes you were hitting D1.

THAT. IS NOT. A FUCKING EXPLANATION. For the original read degradation. This is not a town way to have switched a read. It has scum written all over it.

What notes did I hit on D1, hmm?
What about them wasn't I hitting on D2?

But you never thought to follow up on it?

Yeah? My comment was there. I'm sure if I searched my iso, I'd find a shitload of things that I wanted follow-through on that never came, yet I never thought of giving. Your posting in the QT about me was among them, in that it was something I thought of, but didn't think of following through on, since other things distracted me.

You brushed it off because you didn't think it was completely accurate because F-16 would lie about my suspicions in thread and I wouldn't publicly call him out and correct him for it?

You misrepping fucking scumbag, that statement couldn't have been more clear. I said that F-16 had biases. And that F-16 would be paraphrasing. Fuck, you saw it in Xeno, where Metal Sonic talked about bringing AP around to lynching me. Second-hand info, conveyed through the lens of bias. Not a lie, just not the truth. The two are not mutually fucking exclusive. And guess what? It took you a while to post at all. So of course I didn't think about you calling it wrong. Basically your next fucking post was saying not only right, but an understatement.

I completely went to bat for you and alienated myself ENTIRELY from the neighborhood. Bork has built up a hell of a lot of towncred between them (aka no one even entertained the possibility of us being scum), and I burned it the fuck to the ground because there was no way in hell that I was going to let you get mislynched. I burned that cred during the day when I told BRO he was being an idiot and tried to flashwagon him, and I burned that cred to the ground when I continued arguing overnight (against bork's wishes) that you were town.

You don't burn towncred for defending the truth. You build it. You might alienate players arguing against it, sure, but let's say you hardcore defend me and then I flip town. BAM. All that towncred you burned, instantly rebuilt, just stronger.

Also, nothing here explains your thought process, shows me the why. Behind your thoughts.

And now suddenly, I'm supposedly breaking cover against you and alienating myself from you after already burning my towncred from the neighborhood to the ground because apparently I hate having friends as scum.

This little bit courtesy of F-16. Yes. Because you can spend the first day building the credit, and the rest of the days pushing on mislynches that make sense to push.

Let me put it this way.
Everyone's scumreading me. My iso's ungodly wrong.

What consequences are there to pushing me?

None.

What can be gained from it?

A mislynch. Additionally, the towncredit in having defended me D1 where it mattered.

Is anything lost from it?

No, because everyone thought the same of me, of this being me-as-scum, so you can get away with it.
Nobody would bother calling you out on the change between D1 and D2.

So why not protect me until the end?
Because plans never survive contact with the enemy. I'm sure that was the idea. But something happened that made you panic.
Tammy not townreading you.
Me having an idea of the scumteam.
Something.
Maybe multiple things.

Seeing a change in opportunities.
There are any numerous number of reasons that you could change the plan from protecting me to trying to lynch me. And that's EXACTLY what I think actually happened.

(and all you've done is say you were and switch around a couple of reads: as town you show you're reanalyzing and prove it)

MY. FUCKING. THOUGHT. PROCESS. COULDN'T. BE. ANY. MORE. FUCKING. CLEAR. My reads have changed. A FUCKING TON. And not only have they changed, but I've shown EXACTLY. why. they fucking changed. THERE IS LITERALLY NO WAY THEY COULD BE MORE FUCKING TRANSPARENT. In how I have shown it. Not told it. Fucking shown it. Throughout the fucking day. More has changed than hasn't, and I've shown that.

If you really were reanalyzing like you say you are, you'd be able to see that obvious, obvious fact at least.

I maintain enough sanity to admit that when it comes to your points, my first instinct is, "hmm, fair point". So it triggers my thinking. "Okay. So it's a good point. Don't bias. Don't bias. Think that through." And that triggers the next stream of thoughts. "If he's not scum, who else could be?" I get a mental checklist, but overall come up not really having anything for Nacho. "Well, that's kinda bad, considering you're trying to prove you're

not

biased and that thought shows that you kinda are. But we'll have to do the best we can to work with it. Assuming there's a scumteam that's viable without him, then what?" (Well, I did say I need to refine my process. )

And that goes onto the next. "Okay. Evaluate. It's Nacho, right?" And that makes me think. "I have faith in his competency as a scum player." Which goes on, "...but does that mean he could actually do it as scum?" And I ask myself how I feel about his posting, and the answer's, "kinda artificial, not with the passion of towNacho". And with that, I try to keep it unbiased, and go, "Okay. Scenario making. Which makes more sense?" And run through things. Your version. Then I think about you, and think, "well, that's good, but if he's scum. Let's not cook up some delusional fantasy of what he'd do. Seriously. If he was scum...knowing what I do about him...what would he do?" And that creates what you see, which triggers the thought, "That looks plausible. Does it violate occam's razor?" If not, "does it sound like I'm BSing to myself", to which, the best I can get is generally a "maybe, I dunno". So the thought gets posted, incomplete as it may be, as essentially,

"Well, this is what you'd do as scum, with what you're saying being what you'd do as town." And final analysis on it being, "I have no fucking clue; I can't tell, since both seem just about equally viable." Which triggers the final thought, "So what's my read?" And that's where I find, "...overall, still seeing more scum than town".

But it's not convenient for you to bring up as scum, so you just happily ignore all motive for me changing my reads the way that I did as scum and instead cry "look, a contradiction!".

Oh this is rich.

Rich

.
Coming from a player trying to paint me as scum.

Chain of command.

...Where you were doubting your read on me D1 and even scumread me at one point, and were promptly nightkilled immediately? Of course I didn't forget, that's one of the fucking games I've been using as an example for why you have read me correctly.

I can see gigantic alienations in the form of your treatment of BRO's anxiety attack, and your latest rant to ffery about tossing her diplomat hat down.

...Both of which are reach-outs, frustrated and on the verge of giving up on the players altogether, but reach-outs all the same. BROseidon's freak-out was over scumreading me, and almost getting lynched. I have said multiple fucking times that's what I see it as being, boiled down. That his main reason for breaking down was over a read I knew him to be wrong about. That's my fucking reach-out. Because bluntly, whether he wants to hear it or not, that's the fucking truth.

Similarly for ffery. She flat-out fucking refused to work with me, in spite of me being town, and me having come to an understanding about her that made her basically conftown.

I have reached-out to every fucking single player alive, practically. I have engaged Clyton. Kinda sorta engaged PV, though not really. Kinda sorta engaged Red Gyarados. Have been working extensively with Tammy and F-16. I've also multiple times dealt with DesBRO and pie. I've not really had a chance to reach out to Fox/Hound, but have townread them and without even having engaged each other, I think we've come kinda to an understanding.

Probably more. But it's there. In all of my damn posting.

I'm glad you found your scum stride again.

Know what my scum stride is?
Paranoia.
Book of Shadows.
Attack on Titan.

You know. Games where I was in control basically the whole fucking time. And again, what they all had in common? Is that I had zero to give the town, always working in the background to coordinate their downfall.

No scum game can flourish without the ability to post, and post a lot.

Yes. But post this fucking much? You're ignoring the mindset. The motive. The reason.

You're ignoring the very thought process you know to exist about me

. About how I work as scum, setting up town to die. About how I try to stay outside of the fray. Instead, you're saying that I'm jumping into it as scum, and that I cannot control my impulses as scum to post...when you of all fucking people know that as scum I have a better control over my impulses than normal, in that my scumplay is deadly-effective simply because I am a fucking master. MASTER. Of timing.

I don't know where you get your motivation, I don't care where you get your motivation.

AND THIS IS WHY YOU ARE A FUCKING SCUMBAG, BECAUSE A TOWNACHO MOST CERTAINLY

WOULD

.
Because my motivation for posting this much couldn't be any fucking more clearly indicative of my mindset this game.

[MastinSSK]

I couldn't win the fight against you with you-as-scum and me-as-town.

This was bullshit then, and this is bullshit now.

Like fucking hell it is. THE DAMN VOTECOUNT IS PROOF ENOUGH. I know you're scum, here. But frustratingly, it will not go through.

I only break cover when I'm absolutely 100% sure that I'm going to get that mislynch and I'm 100% if I fail that we will win if we fall anyways.

AND THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FUCKING SAY IS

EXACTLY

WHAT IS GOING ON!

[MastinSSK]

Angry Pidgeon. Nachomamma8. magenda_thegreat. Red Gyarados.

There is your scumteam.

[MastinSSK]

You sound like DGB.

Didn't you read my post in Xeno?

That's 'cause I AM DGB.

I'm not sure where I stand on the completely-wrong or completely-right metric, but I really fucking think it's right.

[MastinSSK]

If you hit the scumteam perfectly minus me, do you know what I would do? I would shut the fuck up and bus a buddy, then I would kill you during the night. Or, I would shut the fuck up and let you get mislynched because that's exactly where the day was going. The "oh i bet I said something REALLY on point and you panicked" is so far gone from everything that you ever learned about me, and I really wish that someone that wasn't me could see that.

EXCEPT YOU CAN'T FUCKING NIGHTKILL A BULLETPROOF. AND YOU'VE PUSHED FOR MY FUCKING MISLYNCH.

[MastinSSK]

Do you want me to quote pleading, begging, reason, logic for you trying to get out of this read?

Go ahead and fucking try. It doesn't fucking exist.

Because I'm not trying to shake your read of me.

Oh, no.

I'm trying to fucking lynch you.

[MastinSSK]

THE EGO CHECKS.
ARE RIGHT FUCKING THERE.
IN MY FUCKING POSTING.

Where?
Could there be an ego check... here?

My scumgame this year (for the most part) has been top-notch. I've masterfully manipulated players. I've had plans. I've beautifully orchestrated the downfalls of towns, in ways that they would never expect, even if they expect me to be scum. It may sound arrogant, but bluntly, I've felt as if my scumgame has taken such leaps and bounds this year to be frankly at scummy-level performances. Because I come up with plans, dang-good plans, and execute them near-flawlessly. And they are all driven by the singular desire of manipulating circumstances to be favorable for my scum faction.

...nope.

The ego checks. Are quite literally. In the entirety of the fucking third page of my iso, where I go over all the places where I acknowledge I could be wrong and work with all the fucking other players.

And you're quoting me having an ego as a scum player.
DAMN FUCKING RIGHT I HAVE AN EGO AS A SCUM PLAYER; I earned it. No need for a check.

But I'm talking about my fucking townplay ego, and that has been in fucking check all game, but I've gone ballistic over this and am fucking sick of it, so fuck ego-checks, I'm sticking to that fucking callout.

[MastinSSK]

I'm losing my shit in a game for a very, very long time and you know exactly why.

No, not exactly why. But a fairly good idea?

Fuck yes.

[MastinSSK]

And it should be obviously bullshit because you're telling me my push on you makes sense and looks good, but is flat and hollow and that's why it pisses you off? You're pissing me off because everything that comes out of your mouth is bullshit and because I have this sense of feeling like shit for shutting down the wagon on you in the first place and because

ANOTHER FUCKING MISREP.

I said that the push from you makes no fucking sense. You word things well so that it does look good, BUT IT IS ONLY THAT, looking good without fucking BEING good, BECAUSE it's flat and hollow.

there are legitimately several times in this game where I've thought "mastin scum wouldn't play this fucking low, he has more self respect than that".

SO WHY THE FUCK IS THERE A SCUMREAD ON ME FROM YOU IF YOU ACTUALLY FEEL THAT WAY?

[MastinSSK]

You don't turn against everyone who scumreads you for scumreading you because that's blatantly obvious, but hell yeah you do it when it makes sense to. You can't turn against Titan because Titan will fucking bury you. You can't turn against F-16 because F-16 will fucking bury you. You can't turn against DesBro because they will fucking bury you.

THIS IS YOU DESCRIBING YOUR FUCKING SCUMGAME, NOT MINE.

[MastinSSK]

Like, that post perfectly fucking explains Nacho's reasons for attacking me in the first fucking place.

[MastinSSK]

Who the fuck is on offense here? I am.

Oh, no doubt. But 1v1? Isn't attackVdefense. It's attackVattack.

Where have you dug into me?

EVERY FUCKING POST OF MINE WHERE I AM CALLING YOU A FUCKING SCUMBAG. To a fault, even. Like, it's pathetic. Sad. Fucking pathetically sad. That if you succeed in mislynching me? You'll use confbias as a reason my read is invalid. Yet here, when I'm still alive, you use lack of it to push my fucking lynch.

[MastinSSK]

I can list a myriad of different reasons why AP would pursue it.

Feel free to list them.

Sure, if I'm not mislynched by then. I'm still catching up.

[MastinSSK]

And even here, I fully realize I'm not catching all the important posts. I've spent four fucking hours here already and I'm only half-way done. If I miss important stuff, let me know; I'll go back to it after I'm caught up.

[MastinSSK]

If you flipped town after all of this, I'm not really sure how I'd feel.

I know how AP will feel.
Achievement Unlocked: Total Fucking Revenge.
/circlejerk.

But seriously. You'll feel bad about having pushed my mislynch in the QT, but will not let it influence your play overall. You'll display whatever emotion you deem most appropriate to it, most likely involving some sort of apathy.

[MastinSSK]

You're right, you wouldn't be this civil if you were town.

That's the fucking opposite of what I was saying, and you damn-well fucking know it.

You'd be typing while completely fucking lost, and you'd hate yourself when you're typing but you know you have to get this all out on the page because it would just boil inside of you otherwise.

AND THAT.
IS EXACTLY.
FUCKING.
WHAT.
I.
HAVE.
BEEN.
FUCKING.
DOING.

You are scum.

[MastinSSK]

What the hell just happened?

Tammy, all you are saying is that if Mastin is town, you think someone pushing her is scum, right?

I dont see why that is an egregious opinion if thats what it is. PV could easily be scum on that. Magenta could be although I oscillate about Orci.

Nice try trying to interject yourself in to look good.

^

(I probably missed something good worth responding to in the Carbon/Titan/Clyton exchange, but it took me a while to get off the high of emotional outburst towards Nacho.)

I said last night in this discussion that I have no clue how to find mastin's parnters if she flips scum.

There's ALWAYS a way...
...When I'm actually scum. The reason you can't is that there isn't.
The way will be different each game and so subtle that town players have basically only a 1% chance of picking it up, but it always exists.

[MastinSSK]

if anyone calls me scum with mastin thety're a douche because i care too much about her lynch

And yet have stayed off of it like a good fucking scumbag.

[MastinSSK]

nacho/Mastinssk/Pigey/Carbonfiber

scumteam 2014

Holy fucking shit, I can't be the only one who sees this.

All of them.
Distancing.
But pulling shit like this to avoid focusing on one another.
(Pidgey = AP.)

[MastinSSK]

i'm going to dance on mastin's grave when she gets lynched and if you're terying to fuck with me when i'm in that mode then you're going to get buried like everyone else who has ever tried

Yes, yes he will.
Because it's him, AP, Mara/Orc, and NS/BS.

[MastinSSK]

because bro broke the fuck down in thread and mastin didn't even take a break from calling him shit to go "hey bro, are you okay?". he didn't even take a moment to reflect, to hesitate, to whatever he just brushed it the fuck aside and kept moving on

Yes, I did. My read changed on them from scum to town.

And I moved on. But I'm giving zero shits about someone breaking down about

a read they are fucking wrong about

.

[MastinSSK]

but as scum? he quells those emotions because they go against his win condition. i do the same thing. i mislynch people, i see the hurt in the words they're typing and i feel fucking horrible about it but i keep going because i know i need to for my win condition

LIKE. FUCKING. HELL.
I would.

As scum, know what I'd do?

Back the fuck down. Because winning by causing a player to break down when right?
Is no fucking way to win a game. It goes against the fucking game part, the part I emphasize, in favor of the win.

But I literally cannot be assed to care about him breaking down...about a read he is fucking wrong about.

And you KNOW this about me.

[MastinSSK]

it's such a betrayal of trust to pretend like you're in actual danger for a win in a fucking game, you know?

And the inverse is true as well, and you fucking KNOW it is. BROseidon broke down.
Over a threat.
That was mostly imaginary.

How the fuck.
Do you expect.
Me to go,
"Sorry."

For something that is on his fucking end for his fucking misread?

[MastinSSK]

I felt, i feel fucking horrible for having a part in that.

And this is how you feel about pushing me I'm sure.

But I'm going to stop with this fucking line of questioning, because I realized that every fucking single one of the things I'm saying here I said...PRIOR to Nacho having brought them up. They were already fucking addressed. Multiple fucking times. So I'm canning it, the line is scum-driven and fucking manipulative.

Nachomamma8. AngryPidgeon. magenta_thegreat. Red Gyarados.
Your scumteam.

[MastinSSK]

This kinda makes me think of mastins difference of opinions between mara and Kovara in paranoia, Pigey

Do tell.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=3275
Wait this game is over now omfg.
OK look at this shit. Look at it.
Mastin was pissing me off tha tgame cause she was on my team. Yet she put forth zero fucking effort in it. Meanwhile shes posting up a storm over here. I think she was just wanting to be a hero. a town hero.

Thus why I've said most of my scumgames this year. That one I expressed my disappointment in myself that I didn't give the town the challenge they deserved. You could sum it up as,
"AP, help!"
As that one micro was, "Nacho, help!"

I've been giving this game. So much. So fucking much. That it's come at the complete cost of other games, the one AP linked among them.

So a legitimate fuck you if you so much as seriously fucking think that I am scum, here.

[MastinSSK]

Titan-DesBRO looks really, REALLY townVtown. Titan more emotional, DesBRO more logical, but still, townVtown.

[MastinSSK]

Nacho's push on Mastin felt incredibly town and very closely matches the way Nacho pursues his suspects when he is town.

Except it's not?

He's using BROseidon's emotions to pursue a case on me, ignoring my own fucking emotions.

Also don't really get the Red Gyarados read, but eh, kinda don't feel like reading that right now.

Post 548 in particular felt incredibly manipulative and felt like she was agreeing with points that didn't make a lot of sense at all.

Well, I'm reading that in hindsight and...still have not a damn clue what you're seeing. I don't agree with the read from there, but I'm not seeing the problem with the reasoning at all.

The way she attacked Ceph also felt like she didn't really give Ceph a lot to refute which is sort of convenient because I felt the same way when she pointed out posts in a way that was mostly insubstantial and irrefutable.

And I did the best I could to explain it, no?

Her points about me "raging" also felt like a disconnect from reality.

Helpful hint, if I seem disconnected from reality on a point in my posting, chances are I'm town. But I still kinda agree with that point, too, just not its conclusion.

I especially didn't like her portrayal of my play as bad.

You were attacking Rancid and myself, stubbornly without moving. I had every reason to. I still feel you're wrong today, but in a much less "bad" way.

Overall, I feel like everyone is suspecting Mastin for the way she attacked them and interacted with them.

Yes.
EVERYONE.
In the whole fucking game.
Suspecting me for having pushed them at some point or another.

...You really think my play as scum is to royally tick off every possible ally I'd have?

[MastinSSK]

Ya ok mastin. If you are still scum reading nacho after last night's posts Idk what to tell you.

"Damn.
She's fucking nuts.
...But,

damn

, all the same."



(Still thinking AP-Nacho-Mara/Orc-Gyarados.)

[MastinSSK]

You also got ran up in ny 172 due to apathy.

And real life, and this fucking game. I devoted time here that could have been spent there, got a window to post there, but then couldn't because my connection to the fucking site died until the window had closed.

Not planned.

I had a plan. I never got a chance to execute it. I've been saying that this whole fucking day phase. Got a plan AND a chance to execute it, and I'm good. Only got the plan, and execution never comes? Useless.

[MastinSSK]

I'm wondering if it makes sense to just lynch AP first.

In a heartbeat.

No you did fuck all to stop your lynch in 172.

Because at the time I would have been able to, I wasn't around to be able to. There were windows. One window I tried, and missed thanks to wacky internet. (My connection to other sites was fine. It was to MS.net that I couldn't lock on.) Earlier windows, I was trying to balance rl and this fucking game with my others, choosing here over there.

Who is scum on your wagon then?

Haven't QUITE worked that out, for 100%. Like, Nacho-AP-Mara/Orc-NS/BS feels really good because the connections are there and each individually looks scummy, but I'm not absolutely sure.

Your posting doesn't really help to clear up your alignment.

All of my posting not focused on getting someone lynched (and even then) has been this?

[MastinSSK]

Because there is no point? Nothing I do today has any fucking sway and I -was- voting Nacho until him getting townread dissolved that possibility.

I simply do not see this as a town-AP thought process. No point in doing it? You pursue it anyway and try your damnedest to get it through, not giving up on it, ESPECIALLY when someone who is a strong townread is getting run up.

If I flip town Today, how would your reads change?

If you're expecting there to be a "I have no fucking clue", you'd be wrong. I'd do a hard-reset rather than a soft-reset, the results of which may vary. Players like Tammy, F-16, and pie would all re-enter my spotlight--not necessarily as scumreads, mind you. Just that the hard reset would involve me being absolutely. Abso-fucking-lutely. Sure that they're town, rather than just thinking they are. Because my reads make a lot of assumptions and logical jumps and are based off of very little. I don't have a clear picture of who would be scum, nor should I, since that defeats the whole purpose. I'd have a purpose.

...Might end up giving up and just lynching myself if I couldn't figure things out, of course. But crossing bridges as you come to them, and all that.

This is scum-mastin.

FUCKING FINALLY.

What, you were expecting a speech?

Spoiler: Okay, Speech

FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY. FUCKING FINALLY.

Now please actually be town so that you're not a Jake of this game.

[MastinSSK]

Never have been so fucking happy to be scumread.
Because I've been fucking pissed off at that tell PA's used.
And explained every fucking time that it is a fucking bullshit tell.
And every fucking time that it wasn't actually a fucking tell.

So fucking happy.
She won't get to use the excuse that "Oh, mastin must have been playing like her scumgame."
Because this is my towngame, through and through, and not some fucking 'off' game. It's my fucking towngame.
No speech need be given.

[MastinSSK]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to get an earful about how I can't read mastin, how recognizing her as scum in Resistance and 172 was just happenstance and that I should sit down, shut up, and swallow whatever corrected version of her scum meta mastin wants me to believe.

Not fucking well buying it. Third time's the charm, this is scum-mastin, and so help me if y'all generate another ten pages of content before lynching obv-scum I...will complain bitterly to Tammy all night.

Like, no fucking takebacks, here, PA.

You're town? You quote this post-game.

And admit it.

I was telling you the fucking truth as scum.
And that your tell is fucking bullshit.

Third time really is the fucking charm. For you to be wrong, oh SO fucking wrong. Commit 100% to that tell of yours. That I'm really that obvscum. That I'm scum doing an appeal to emotion. That I'm scum trying to make you think you're less competent than you actually are. That I'm scum who is desperately trying to cover up a legitimate flaw in my scumplay. That I am scum bullying players, especially you right now.

I want to hear those fucking words said officially rather than just implicitly.

[MastinSSK]

Hey Mastin, I think PA just sunk your battleship. Is it a scumship though?

Fuck it.

VOTE: AngryPidgeon.

[MastinSSK]

IT'S REAL CUTE HOW YOU'RE TRYING TO GET OUT OF THIS BY CALLING NACHO SCUM, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK

Oh, quite aware.

You're even higher up on my list of tears of fucking joy, though. Because PA just came into the game with a misread on me which she'll have to admit to. You? Have had most of the game but have done nothing but tunnelfuck me when I am town.

This must be how Rancid felt. That absolute rage...but the absolute ecstasy of knowing what would happen after the mislynch.

[MastinSSK]

I'd like to note Brian Skies scumreading AP but not voting there, too. In fact, there's a lot of strange interactions between the three (four if you add in orc), and it's really looking like a scumteam.

this is fucking hilarious given you were calling AP scum this entire game day but you kept not voting him and or looking for excuses to jump off his wagon when you got on it

And I switched to...Nacho who is also strongly on the scumlist. And have considered switching to...Mara/Orc, also strong on the list. And just...switched back onto AP.

Four fucking scumbags, and I've only got one vote. Which has been divided between AP and Nacho. And which doesn't even fucking count in the first place, regardless.

look at his posts where he challenges mastin and tell me you can't feel the ~passion~. he can fake it to some extent but it's showed up enough in this game that it points to town Nacho. his recent posting has been even better in that regard. if he can play like this as scum, I'm outright terrified.

(1) Nacho's posting has basically zero passion, (2) and you can go fuck yourself since my posting has been essentially nothing but fucking passion to the point of detrimentation and yet you've fucking scumread me in spite of that.

[MastinSSK]

NOW IM POSTING IT TO TRY AND MAKE A CASE FOR YOU. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?

The thing "wrong" with me is my town wincon not allowing me to be blinded by being WK'ed.

IVE BEEN GETTING FLAK FOR MY TOWNREAD OF YOU AND IT WAS HUGELY BASED ON YOU

FUCKING ME OVER

IN THAT SCUM GAME BY LURKING LIKE A FUCK.

Coincidentally, Nacho made this same point. About how he got flak for his townread of me, and bluntly demanding why he'd do that as scum.

BUT NO YOU HAVE TO ALIENATE THE ONE FUCKING PERSON WILLING TO STEP UP TO BAT FOR YOU AND NITPICK THE SHIT OUT OF EVERYTHING I DO AND POST BULLSHIT LIKE
"IM HAVING A HARD TIME EXPLAINING MY AP READ THIS GAME" INTERMIITENTLY.

Yes. Because while I want you to be town, oh so badly, it's not what I'm reading. I'll fully admit that there's some bias in there. But every reset I do. Every time I take another look. I still see scum.

so you'd back the fuck down as scum. what did you do here? back the fuck down and never poke at him again. makes sense

What the fuck?

NO I FUCKING DIDN'T. YOUR WHOLE FUCKING CASE AGAINST ME WAS THAT I DIDN'T FUCKING BACK DOWN. That is literally. FUCKING LITERAL GOD-DAMNED TO THE WORD. Your fucking case. (And Nacho's, for that matter.) That I didn't back down. I have been going out of my fucking way to point out exactly why I haven't back down, and also made it really fucking clear exactly what a scum me would do being a backing down.

I don't buy your "noise is detrimental to scum" bullshit and it makes sense you'd say that in order to detract attention from what you're trying to do

Fuck you, you little shithead. TRhat psiot hwas made with me being as pure as I fucking can be you absolute asshole. I meant every fiucking weord of it.,

[MastinSSK]

And no, that's not drunkposting or tiredposting. That is rageposting so much that my head turned red and my hands typed at the actual speed of my brain, shaking violently.
You can call me scum all you fucking want. I'm fine with that. You're wrong, oh so fucking seriously wrong. But that's you.
But I would ne ver fucking lie aborur theory in agame.
NEVER.
'FUicking.
EVER.
Like aborutr ggodsm aed feur in a game.

[MastinSSK]

I still can't type that coherently.
I'm caught up for the moment.
There really should be more diplomatic words in my head.
But none come to mind.
Not after that.

It might not be classified as a personal attack, but that is how I feel.
Call me scum manipulating. All you'd like. Call me scum for something that I actually know to have truth. All you'd like. Heck. Call me scum for invalid reasons, just to see me laugh at them.

NEVER.

Scum lying about theory.

I say something about theory, I believe said something. Period.