NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[DOMO]

Tammy was being townread by most and the doc is either scum or likely to be watched. As for the claimed mason, well the longer he's left the more suspicious he becomes. I'm not all that surprised by a tammy NK.

[DOMO]

Noticed you pussied out of responding DOMO. No answers to the misrep?

Huh? Who's not responding?

How is that irrelevant?

I don't think you answered this question.

[DOMO]

generic's SSK vote is weak.

[DOMO]

How in the blue fucking hell is that relevant?

Because you accused me of scumreading everyone who attacked me. Which is a lie.

[DOMO]

Nobody cares about my vote on ssk and y'all only comments on gen's vote
It hurts my already scarred feelings

Yeah but you unvoted didn't you? Plus you claimed vanilla and tried to sacrifice yourself to avoid a PR mislynch. I have no interest in pressing you. You'r town as fuck.

[DOMO]

I asked you whether you were going somewhere

And yes of course I was going somewhere. I feel like I trapped scum. I enter today with an attack on casso and a sudden townread on geists. Forgive me for thinking that town might consider that to be a special tell. But you accuse me of retarded logic, ignoring me when I hint that I might have got night info. You won't drop it. So that smacks of scum who wants to run me up to a claim. Screw you. NK me.

So yes my entry today was indeed going somewhere. Thanks for obliging.

[DOMO]

Did you answer why you supposedly readily soft claimed JUST to try and promote my wagon?

I did that did I? I towned geists either because I have night info, or because I want to reaction test people who might think I got night info. Your reaction was not a town reaction. Take a look at ffery. She presses me after I say I've normally tonwread her early by saying "were we actually ever town together". My answer would be unsatisfactory, except ffery isn't pushing it. Why? Obviously she doesn't want to risk pressing a town PR.

ffery's reaction is town. Yours is scum.

F-16 - now you're rolefishing.

[DOMO]

Sorry F-16 I missed those posts.

Has this game beat xenoblade yet for d1 content?

I'm not feeling so great about an F-16 lynch.

I was thinking of defaulting back to varsoon but that wagon looks filthy.

What made you change your mind? You initially joined my wagon based on Mara's case looking convincing. I find it problematic because the case itself really wasn't any good. I'm not just saying it because the conclusion is wrong or that it was against me (I've seen cases on town look very convincing). Mara's case essentially boiled down to how I was interacting with her slot and scumreading them. I pointed out why it was inaccurate in my graph which you decided to merely laugh at as you pushed the wagon. After the wagon on me got derailed, you move your vote as well saying you don't feel good about my lynch. I don't care that you frequently change your mind. I do find it scummy that your change of mind corelates with the momentum of a wagon very strongly. I want specifics in why you felt so good about my lynch earlier and now you don't. What pieces of evidence convinced you to change your read and how did it progress upward or downward as you read through the thread.

I changed my mind on you because I felt you were a poor lynch for the same reason as casso - I don't like removing potentially strong players on day 1. I am not familiar with you, and someone pointed this out. Your posts since my support of mara's case has me thinking that you too are a strong player. So I backed off.

If this is your reason, it would be just as applicable when you initially sheeped Mara and laughed at my graph, would it not? What changed?

I didn't read your graph post. I'll admit during most of d1 I was heavily distracted and had no time to read walls. I just saw the graph and thought that can easily be scum making it look like he's a busy townie.

Not role fishing, just mocking the fact you pushed that one read as a form of answering my question. Glad you are do proud of such a retarded way of reading someone, your actions tell me all I need to know about you right now.

Yup you're scum. You didn't stop and think "shit maybe he did get some night info", you're persisting with "this is retarded".

And in the process you're showing me that it isn't retarded.

My initial thoughts were that you were a PR who learned that Giests was town last night and then made up reasons for why they are town especially with your talk about role fishing. I was about to try and diffuse the situation but then I saw this post. Why claim so easily?

Also, can you answer my questions to you from D1?

Why claim so easily? I'm not claiming, I'm trying to WIFOM the scum into deciding if I'm actually a town PR or just pretending to be so I can draw the NK and reaction test people.

[DOMO]

Funnily enough that's scummy domo.

Well not as scummy as pushing someone who is crumbing and WIFOM'ing after posting a sudden townread at the start of d2.

I'm convinced you're scum, I see no town motivation to continue pushing me.

[DOMO]

I think most of us can agree that DOMO has this natural way of being really scummy without actually trying hard at all.

Can scum be this bad is the $$$$ question

I'm not bad at this game by any means, I just tend to employ questionable strategies that sometimes work and sometimes fail. I have no inferiority complex over this playerlist.

[DOMO]

I accuse you of being scum because you push me in a manner that ignores the idea that I could be a town PR.

ffery is town because she has been given cause for alarm, effectively catching me lying to explain my townread on her, yet doesn't push me further because I suspect she knows what I'm doing.

You're scum because town should stop pushing me and wait to see if I get NK'ed. Your motivation is scum motivated. If you're actually town, you're doing them a favour here, because by lynching me, you answer the question of my role without them having to NK.

And what the fuck has carbon monoxide got to do with anything? It sucks that IRL is dealing you shit cards for the time being, but that has nothing to do with this game. We all have IRL problems, I'm not going to bring my problems to the game. You're not tearing me a new arsehole, I'm not a moron, I'm just playing this game and trying to determine people's alignments, as you should be doing. But you're not, you're pressing me, after I soft claim and admit I'm trying to WIFOM scum. You're ignoring the massive amount of town motivation in my actions, and focussing on my attack on you. Even if I'm wrong about you, that doesn't make me scum. But that isn't your thought process.

[DOMO]

Ok, fuck off generic if you're just gonna be all MORON.

[DOMO]

I'm default lynching generic until I'm lynched or he is. I can't be doing with people who will not engage in a civil manner.

Please generic vs DOMO today.

[DOMO]

Don't quit generic. Just take a day off and stop being an arsehole please.

[DOMO]

I'm default lynching generic until I'm lynched or he is. I can't be doing with people who will not engage in a civil manner.

Please generic vs DOMO today.

I retract this comment fwiw. generic brought the arsehole out in me, and I apologise for telling you to fuck off.

[DOMO]

I don't mind you voting me if you think I'm scummy generic, don't feel compelled to unvote to keep things civil.

[DOMO]

DOMO, Generic's arguments with you are very unlikely to come from scum and the way he is going about it seems very natural and genuinely frustrated. I am leaning towards both of you being town. I think you should reconsider.

I am reconsidering. But annoyance is not a town tell afaic, it's null, so I'm left with our interactions through today, and I don't see the town motivation like others seem to.

[DOMO]

If generic is town, then I'm pretty sure F-16 will be.

[DOMO]

A town vs town war will be perfect for scum, so I don't anticipate scum trying to diffuse the argument.

[DOMO]

Its kinda dumb but scum have claimed masons before.

Pretty sure there's no dripping goofball, kuribo or whoever the third head of serene was. Mason claim is legit.

[DOMO]

I've like, super power skimmed most of what I'm behind on.

If SSK is around for too long, I'm PLing that shit. I'll leave "too long" ambiguous for now. Only concern I have is that he's a strong scum PR gambiting to stay alive as long as possible.

Also, if anyone expects me to remotely keep up with this spamfest while I'm V/LA, they can go eat some durian. Or something.

This is horrible. Alarm bells.

[DOMO]

Hm, DOMO vs F16... I think F16 is Town.

Yeah welcome to ages ago. I agree F-16 is town.

[DOMO]

such town
wow

What? I thought this was sarcasm until I saw your town town town comment. Why are you towning me so hard? It's not comforting, I can assure you. Quite the opposite in fact.

[DOMO]

vote cephrir

Towning me so hard is sketchy as fuck. He's recently been scum with me and knows I'm capable of acting town when scum. There's no way he can be this confident he's town unless he actually knows.

[DOMO]

There's no way he can be this confident he's town unless he actually knows.

*I'm town.

I'm a few vodkas drunk. Just a few.

[DOMO]

It makes no sense. I'm all over the place. I'll be honest, I can see why people think I'm scummy. I contributed hard to the SC wagon, but when push comes to shove, I bail claiming the wagon is flithy. I then come out today crumbing and WIFOM'ing all over the thread. I don't know how he can get such a town read on me from that. F-16 is my next best supporter, and he's leaning town whilst being a little cautious. Ceph is towning me a lot more than he should be.

[DOMO]

I'm towning you because I didn't think you were particularly town in 165

My early game was weak, but I pulled my finger out and replaced out as virtually confirmed townie. ffery is very cautious of me because of my later play in that game, and you should be too. You should know that if I make the effort, I can scum it up good. Why aren't you more concerned about me?

[DOMO]

I'm not paranoid, I'm just trying to figure out people's motives.

unvote

[DOMO]

ceph is in my null pile, in case anyone wanted to know.

[DOMO]

I care ffery.

[DOMO]

2. geists (fferyllt + Natirasha) - Scum-ish.

Nati

So geists is scummy, yet you're willing to lynch me if nati says no to SSK?

Why are you willing to sheep a scumread of yours?

vote casso

[DOMO]

Quote fail.

DOMO if Nati says no on SSK.

[DOMO]

Where are you with casso, ffery?

[DOMO]

I feel like I mentioned the fact that I've had 2 hours of internet access in the past 6 days, but maybe I forgot to say it?

If you said this on d1, then high chance I missed it. I've read every post today that I'm aware of.

Also, god I hate hydras. One head said this but the other head said that. jfc.

[DOMO]

Casso can go today, currently my favoured lynch. I'm not liking hydra dissonance, and there's plenty other reason for concern.

bert mara f16 geists I am not willing to lynch today. Everyone else is null or near enough to it that I won't cry if they die.

Also, god I hate hydras

It's funny cuz domo started as a hydra~

It's true. A failed hydra at that. I think my partner made two or three posts before bailing.

goodmorning isn't a hydra. Who are you talking about?

Yeah that was reference to your comment that it was thor.

[DOMO]

I agree thor is hard to figure out. I can't take much from oz, can't remember what else I've played him in but I certainly consider him to be strong, so I expect his scum game to be in order. I feel nacho will be slightly easier to read, but not much. I dunno, nacho felt town in my exchange with him earlier but the motives seem questionable.

[DOMO]

bert mara f16 geists I am not willing to lynch today.

Oh yeah add SSK BBQ and whoever the mason is to this list. Who's the mason again?

[DOMO]

geists (fferyllt + Natirasha) - town
Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665) - ?
MC Maraca (Cabd + Ms Marangal) - town
F-16_Fighting_Falcon - town
Generic - ?
Bert - town
MafiaSSK - town
pieguyn - ?
BROseidon - ?
Norlkaz - ?
KoreanBBQ (GuyInFreezer + Nero Cain) - town
goodmorning - ?
Sakura Hana - ?
Ser Arthur Dayne - ?
zMuffinMan - ?
DOMO - town
Cephrir - ?
Desperado - leaning town

geists is townreading casso. Fine.

unvote

generic I could be misreading due to his aggression.

pieface is looking like a good bet for scum.

BRO is always scum.

Who the fuck is norlkaz? Who the fuck is brian skies? Probably miller or something crappy.

goodmorning seems to be getting townread by people, so meh.

sakura is suddenly town, so meh again.

SAD muffin and ceph all look iffy to me.

Yeah I figured it out.

SAD muffin ceph pie BRO, scum is likely in that group.

Allow me to bold that.

SAD muffin ceph pie BRO

I am.

I knew that.

[DOMO]

Sleep time.

Let's

vote pieface

and see what shitstorm I wake up to.

[DOMO]

ceph is in my null pile, in case anyone wanted to know.

Then why did you stop the push on him?

idk, maybe because I'd rather push a scum read than a null read?

Feel free to post your other reasons for concern, though.

I already have, that was mostly in reference to your push at me and SAD yesterday.

Desperado, how have your reads changed since the point you mentioned SC, Geists, Maraca, DOMO, and Dayne as your suspects? What are your reads on DOMO and Geists now? Do you have any other strong reads?

the only one i'm looking to lynch right now is dayne

i don't understand why everyone is conftowning domo for being super-paranoid, as if voting someone for townreading you is a difficult scum move or something. i don't think paranoia is as rocksolid of a towntell as some others do

geists is still scum, maraca is still a mason

pie, generic, bro, bert are town

desp is no longer leaning town.

[DOMO]

If you're keen you'll also notice I've developed a scumread on geists!

Any reason why I'm in the "don't touch" group, but you're ignoring my hard towning of geists today?

[DOMO]

Because you're town, and I have a scumread on geists? I only actually sheep my townread's reads when I have a null.

But I've been hinting that I got night info, did you not notice or do you just not believe me? And if you don't believe me, why am I town?

[DOMO]

I mean no offense to you by this but I think you can be easily emotionally manipulated based on the open we played together and you're very tunneled to small things and make them out to be bigger than they actually are. Thus, you spin stories in your head and forge events that relate to someone's alignment that were actually minuscule in size, but were made monumental by your illusions.

There's some truth to this, but I recognise this and as such I'm totally willing to hard reset if I think I'm way off on my reads.

That said, I'm convinced geists is town. Either because I know, or due to her reaction to today's events. She caught me lying and has not pushed that as a scum tell. I can't see any scum motivation in that at all.

So geists is untouchable afaic.

[DOMO]

Assuming SSK is town, he should totally be tossing a coin between me and geists tonight.

And until we get a doc cc, SSK is also untouchable.

SAD, why is BBQ in the same group as pie and BRO? How is BBQ less town than I am? BBQ claimed vanilla and self voted in an attempt to sacrifice himself. If that's a scum move, it's a very good one.

[DOMO]

Fuck it I'm gonna claim, I think it's pretty obvious that I'm an important PR. My crumb got messy and I tried to WIFOM my way out of it, I don't think scum are all that fooled and clarifying the situation makes it more likely I get protection and people can back the fuck off geists.

crumb -

I've gotta say I think geists is town.

I'm gunsmith, geists is clean. I checked her out because I wasn't able to get a solid read off her through d1 and I didn't want any distrust between us, ffery is good to work with when she's town.

SSK should protect me tonight. A town watcher should be watching SSK in case he's blocked or targetted. If geists goes, well I hope she's not a cop or watcher. And if she's scum with no gun, then SSK is legit.

I like that the vig got killed on d1, fwiw. It means no town massacre, and I can be sure that those with a gun are not town.

So SSK protect me, watcher keep an eye on SSK. If we have a cop, quietly go about your business and hopefully between us we can wrap this up on d3 or d4. I'm going to provide a list of people I might look up tonight, so if we have a cop he should look elsewhere.

[DOMO]

SAD muffin ceph pie BRO

This is where we should be lynching today. This is going to be my target group tonight.

[DOMO]

But there are all kinds of Scummy things that can come up clean to a Gunsmith - most notably Mafia Doctor and SK.

Doesn't look like we have a SK, and yeah I'm aware a scum doc shows up clean.

And how would you propose we discover this?

The assumption is that if SSK is scum, he's scum doc. So if geists is scum doc, then SSK isn't.

Cop, some JOATs, another Gunsmith...?

I have a gun? And yes I realise I'm not as strong as a cop, that there are some town roles who have guns. But I can at least force a claim, and scum are likely to default fakeclaim cop to try and draw a real cop out. If there's a cop who I'm scumreading, he should probably get on my good side so I don't force his claim.

[DOMO]

I think if there's a town doc who's not SSK, he should claim. Docs are not all that powerful, but a cc would give us an easy lynch in SSK, while ensuring a town watcher, if we have one, watches a town doc instead of scum doc.

I don't want to see an immdeiate claim, I'd like to see discussion, the pros and cons.

[DOMO]

Hmm also if there's a gunsmith it would be interesting to make mafiassk a mafia doctor, at least out of a setup point of view.

Ok I'm down with a SAD lynch. I'm not liking him pointing at SSK specifically here, when geists or anyone else for that matter could be scum doc. This could be scum using set-up spec to try to get us to lynch off the town doc, leaving me unprotected.

vote SAD

[DOMO]

... Because... he actually claimed doc already?

Indeed he did, hence I don't want to see him lynched today.

I'm not just voting for you for that comment alone, I came close to doing so after empire posted the last VC, seeing as you're on 4 and pie 1, with both of you in my lynch list. I'm happy for now.

Also I love how you ignored the fact Ceph and MCM literally thought/speculated on the same thing (I'm assuming so?), and I literally put it into clearer words.

MCM is town, and ceph's comments haven't gone unnoticed. If he was on 4 instead of you, I'd probably vote him instead.

[DOMO]

I'm going to get lynched because people are sheeping each other

Well personally I like it when people sheep each other, it makes it harder for scum to control the wagons.

And this is nothing like d1. SC got lynched due to sakura's wagon collapsing near deadline. You're getting wagonned because so far five people think you're scummy, or are at least pretending to.

[DOMO]

So why would you think that the person who has reason to vote you is scum, while the half arsed cases are town?

[DOMO]

> softclaims a PR that was intended to be noticed by others
> accuse ppl of rolefishing

I missed this post or BBQ's.

DOMO, why choose Geists to target with your role?

BBQ, that is rolefishing. At this stage, I had not claimed, I was in the process of a messy crumb and WIFOM. F-16 here asks directly why I looked up geists. Why would he want that clarified? Only reason I can think is so he can determine if I'm PR or gambit. Where's the town motivation there?

^ That's my partner right there right DOMO?

Funnily enough I was just starting to think that myself.

You benefit literally 0 from the Tammy kill, and in fact, lose a lot.

This would support a SAD-F16 team.

[DOMO]

Why wouldn't there be a town doc and scum doc? That's not particularly unusual, is it?

[DOMO]

I'm totally willing to accept there's likely to be a scum doc based on my role, but you have to understand why I, a claimed gunsmith, am reluctant to lynch a claimed doc. If he's town and we lynch him, they'll pick me off without a sweat, and that's two town PRs down. Surely we're better off waiting a day or two before looking again at SSK?

[DOMO]

Wait, did I claim gunsmith clear on geists? Sorry I meant cop guilty on BRO.

[DOMO]

huehuehue (I think?)

Of course it's a haha claim.

[DOMO]

In all seriousness though I've never seen duplicate roles in a game.

We should still wait on SSK though, which means you should remove your vote. The cons outweigh the pros quite heavily here. We're making some assumptions that there won't be a doc on either side, and that gunsmith means there will be scum doc. These might be reasonable assumptions, but even if the net result is SSK is probably scum, he's not gonna be any less scum tomorrow or d4. If we're right and he's scum, we gain nothing other than a scum lynch that we gain a later day. But if we're wrong, we lose a doc and probably the gunsmith before d3 has even started, with just a vague clear on geists in return.

I do agree that SSK is looking like he's probably scum doc, but I am not lynching him today.

[DOMO]

Well no one (other than BRO?) was actually advocating his lynch today.

BRO is the only person to slap a vote down, but F-16 has said he's suspicious, and I'm hardly convinced, so I feel that a wagon is possible, hence me feeling the need to express caution.

So taking into account my claim, are you still scumreading ffery?

[DOMO]

Yeahhh, but I'm saying that the first assumption is a little WTFy and the second is unknown until geists flips and therefore geists will not flip.

I didn't really think it through all that much, my thought process was dominated by "to claim or not to claim". The rest was pretty much me spewing my thoughts as they came to me.

[DOMO]

Huh? Why isn't there 5 pages of waffle for me to read?

[DOMO]

Do you have ANY scum reads that aren't self centred reasoning?

It should come as no surprise that my scumreads are based on interactions with myself. I spent most of d1 coasting, I was basically skimming the thread looking for my name so I could reply and keep myself involved and interested. And my d1 strategy pretty much revolves around me stirrng up shit to see how it settles. I realise that this style can be quite abrasive to some, but it has served me well in the past. If I had read every post, then it's unlikely that my scumreads would be so reliant on the exhanges I've had.

I'm a lot less convinced about you being scum, fwiw. You took a step back, disappeared for a day because you were getting frustrated with me. Your interactions with me as we argued did not seem like cornered scum, it felt like frustrated town. So I hope you can see that it's not all for nothing.

[DOMO]

Possibly. I don't see why we need to focus on SSK. If he's not been NK'ed by midgame, then we lynch him because he's scum. There's no way scum can leave a known town doc alive when there's a claimed gunsmith operating. They'll need to remove him before they can pick me off.

If I get NK'ed tonight, SSK was either RB'ed, is scum, or is dumb.

Also, lack of d1 miller claim probably supports the idea that we have no cop. I wouldn't be surprised if we have a JOAT with 1x shot cop, but I don't anticipate a full cop.

[DOMO]

If I get NK'ed tonight, SSK was either RB'ed, is scum, or is dumb.

In fact the "dumb" bit relies on scum anticipating him not protecting me, so that option is highly unlikely.

Scum could RB the doc and kill me, that's entirely possible. Or maybe SSK is scum and that's what he'll claim happened.

If we have a JK'er, I do not mind being blocked. I obviously prefer to be able to use my power, but if I'm gonna die anyway, blocking the kill is clearly preferable, and forces scum to reconsider their target n3.

[DOMO]

Miller is a great role. I thought I'd hate it until I got it. I was able to play with a great deal of freedom, not caring if I got lynched, and happy to get NK'ed (unless I'm miller tracker and track a "townread" to a kill godfuckingdammit).

But I wasn't suggesting it was confirmation, merely support. I'd probably throw some kind of miller in if I had a full cop.

[DOMO]

Has anyone ever seen scum fakeclaim miller off the bat and win?

[DOMO]

No game relevance, just curiosity. I doubt I'll be fakeclaiming miller in a game involving any of this playlist, I'll say that.

And it's somewhat annoying that the game has slowed down just as I get myself in gear. There's way too much DOMO on this page for my liking.

[DOMO]

I'm not all that convinced by desperado here.

[DOMO]

I already know this game is going into my pile of fails. Claiming d2 with no damning evidence after a bad crumb, probably getting geists killed early in the process...

gesists, we need to figure some shit out today. What do you think of F-16's post where he asks me why I looked you up? I'm torn between it being unlikely scum would be so blatantly rolefishing, and not finding any town motivation. But it's kind of been brushed under the carpet, noone seems to have picked up on it. You'd think if he's town, scum would think there's grounds for mislynch there, but nothing.

I think F-16 is giving me most concern right now.

[DOMO]

And if you're scum doc, I might do something terrible to an innocent kitten in anger. If you're scum doc, just claim now. Think of the kittens.

[DOMO]

That rev metadive that F-16 indulged in looks pretty town. I might have to metadive him in return.

[DOMO]

I think F-16 is giving me most concern right now.

Arthur, can you explain your townread on me?

You benefit literally 0 from the Tammy kill, and in fact, lose a lot.

SAD, I'm interested why this is so. You're saying that he benefits 0 from it, yet here you are insisting that it makes him town. Do you not see why your logic is flawed here? He's benefitted from the tammy kill just because you're towning him for it.

[DOMO]

Really liking pie's recent post there.

pedit - referring to #4258

[DOMO]

Actually I was on about #4257

I've just got up and I'm already smoking weed. Happy New Year's Eve everyone!

[DOMO]

second off, back to the comment about the information from a SC lynch. there was plenty of discussion about SC so I'd imagine you should be going back and looking at his wagon and people's stances on him etc. in order to analyze it

Stuffed Crust (11) (LYNCH) - Cephrir, geists, Tammy, Desperado, Bert, Sakura Hana, MafiaSSK, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Norlkaz, pieguyn, KoreanBBQ
Casso the King of Seals (3) - zMuffinMan, goodmorning, Generic
Bert, Desperado
MafiaSSK, geists, Cephrir
pieguyn, BROseidon, KoreanBBQ, Norlkaz, zMuffinMan
goodmorning, Sakura, DOMO, Generic
Casso, F-16, MC Maraca

especially considering all of your scumreads seem to be on the wagon. yet you forget about said wagon, don't go back to look at how your scumreads jumped on the wagon, and never bring it up again? and instead you ATTACK THE GUY WHO'S SCRUTINIZING HOW YOUR NULL READ HAMMERED?

I like this wagon
vote: arthur

This in particular.

I was gonna sheep pie on this but my vote is already there. Bonus.

[DOMO]

I like muffin's wall there too. That's two of my iffy reads who have started to look town. This makes me happy.

[DOMO]

Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665) - ?
MC Maraca (Cabd + Ms Marangal) - town
F-16_Fighting_Falcon - town
Generic - town
Bert - town
MafiaSSK - town
pieguyn - town
BROseidon - ?
Norlkaz - ?
KoreanBBQ (GuyInFreezer + Nero Cain) - town
goodmorning - ?
Sakura Hana - ?
Ser Arthur Dayne - ?
zMuffinMan - town
DOMO - mvp
Cephrir - ?
Desperado - town

so...

casso bro nork sad ceph, and there's still gm and sakura who I'm yet to sort but others seem to be towning.

[DOMO]

Oh yeah I wasn't convinced abut desperado. And F-16 I intend to metadive after the new year festivites are over.

[DOMO]

I actually feel kind of uncomfortable about it.

Sorry! tbh though you're a good leader so there's worse people I could've cleared. I'm obviously hoping that you're able to sinff out scum today and lead the town to a successful lynch. It's gonna be hard for scum to derail a wagon that you're leading. Or me for that matter. I just have more confidence that you'll have success!

[DOMO]

I'm seeing similarities between micro247 and this F-16. Here he's constantly asking everyone what they think of x, asking people to explain their reads. He seems to do this in micro. And his detailed scum/town list - #128 in micro, #2881 here... what I'm getting from this is that F-16's scum game is in order. He could be emulating his town game in micro, so I want to have a look at a town game of his.

F-16 is null based on a quick read of micro. I've got to start getting ready for this evening now so I'm signing out until next year.

Screw you 2013! Happy new year all!

[DOMO]

I don't think that's what distinguishes his town game from his scum game.

Probably not, but his scum mentality matches his here at a glance. I probably shouldn't even be trying any analytical shit right now, I'm baked and nearly drunk already (3.45pm). I think festive drinking and smoking goes a long way to explaining my impressive mvp performance so far.

[DOMO]

unvote

Incoming hard reset.

[DOMO]

I don't feel great about your choice of investigation. I think you should have checked someone less readable - like Casso or Muffin for instance.

I went for geists because a) I was struggling to read her, and b) I didn't think she would be lynched. Muffin and casso were both people I considered looking into, but both are people who I felt might get lynched pretty soon anyway. I don't want my confirms getting wagonned, because I either have to claim to protect them or lose a confirm. And less readable? That's relative. I was having difficulty reading someone who I expected to be able to read. I thought she was a good bet for scum, but didn't want to push for her lynch without some grounds other than my paranoia. You might have an easier time reading geists over casso and muffin, but I'm not sure I do. I'll pick people I have a hard time reading, I won't be investigating for your benefit because I cannot be sure about your alignment.

[DOMO]

vote cephrir

[DOMO]

I'm not liking the SAD wagon.

Ser Arthur Dayne (6) - Casso the King of Seals, Bert, Desperado, Cephrir, DOMO, pieguyn

What are your reads on the people on this wagon ceph?

[DOMO]

I don't see a problem

I don't see why you need to add this.

[DOMO]

ISO has me leaning town goddamit. Your reads have drifted but you've explained why and your reads list above is consistent with your posts.

unvote

[DOMO]

I'm happier with muffin than I am casso through this last read.

[DOMO]

I'm fine with a casso wagon.

vote casso

[DOMO]

I'm fine with a casso wagon.

vote casso

Why

Why SAD? You didn't seem to question my vote when it was there, why question it now?

[DOMO]

Similarities - Muffin lazy in both.
Differences are based mostly on context; in that game, he was replacing into a game with an absolutely massive Day 1, lots of loud obnoxious people floating around, town was already ridiculously town and the slot he replaced into was ridiculously town already. Here, he replaced in fairly early, there weren't so many obnoxious and loud people (just a bunch of loud people), and his slot was at a point where it needed to look town in order to narrow down options more. I will also note he got a hell of a lot more engaged a lot quicker in FEA (122 posts in 12 days there, 52 posts in 15 days here), which doesn't make sense because I can imagine this would be a game he would be more excited to get into.

This is what I dislike most in the recent casso muffin exchange. Casso is building pressure on muffin by comparing his meta to one of his town games, pointing out that as town he was very quick to get involved. Muffin argues this is due to xmas/site probems, and casso argues back that it doesn't seem to have effected anyone else. Well actually it did. Compare my d1 activity to today. The site problems and timing are absolutely the reason I was not thoroughly up to date on d1. Casso using this in a meta argument is pretty horrible. The two situations he's comparing are imo uncomparable, and both nacho and thor should know better. This I think is scum trying to build a mislynch.

[DOMO]

Nork is above you ceph in my list of towniness.

[DOMO]

Not buying that claim one bit. It looks all the more dodgy because SSK took so long to respond to that when both were online. Had that been an instant answer I'd be at least a little less suspicious.

I'm still not lynching him today though. It's possible that we're multiball and he blocked a kill. If he's not town doc, then it's very probably me or geists dying tonight. And if he is town doc, then he should literally toss a coin between us, meaning scum either take a 50-50 or take a clean pick at someone else.

[DOMO]

I think SSK is scum.

I do not think we should lynch him today.

[DOMO]

I don't think geists should be given the trust as being such an official town leader. Natirasha is very reactive, and that's really not good when deciding on a very rushed or heated lynch.

No shit. Do tell me more about how mafia is played.
What I was doing was indirectly commenting on the quote that you quoted. Providing my own opinion on why thinking of geists as a town leader is badidea.

Who did you protect last night?

You. Because you are an important asset to town.

That's fucking insane given the masons claim.

It's fucking insane full stop.

This claim is so dodgy taking into account how he doesn't trust geists to lead the town that I can't help but feel it's deliberately bad, designed to derail the current wagon. It wouldn't be outrageous for him to sacrifice himself to save casso, if indeed both are on the same scum team.

Let's have a look at the next flurry of votes -

unvote
vote: casso

omgus is a hell of a drug

If casso and SSK are scum together then no way in hell is desperado with them, this vote does the opposite of derail casso's wagon. This would be a sick bus if SSK casso desp are all one team.

bert quickvotes SSK.
Nork votes casso.
desp votes casso.
F-16 votes ceph.
pieface votes SAD.
muffin votes SSK.
Bert changes to casso.

Assuming casso and SSK are both scum, then nork and desp are looking very good.

F-16 and pie could be trying to derail casso, I'd say their votes would be null.

muffin's vote looks bad and is deserving of scrutiny.

bert looks fucking awful, the quick attempt to derail casso's wagon and then oh shit better bus him then.

If casso and SSK are scum, then lynch bert hard, and take a good look at muffin.

If casso and/or SSK is town, then I guess this is nonsense. But I doubt I'll be around long enough to analyse shit based on flips, I'm gonna have to make some assumptions.

[DOMO]

If SSK somehow flips town this wagon needs a good look at. Those townies who are voting for him, it's premature ejaculation, pure and simple. The only reason I can think of to lynch him today is in case he's actually scum RB'er faking doc, but no-one is arguing this, and more to the point, he's not fighting his lynch in a manner that makes me think he's important to scum. If he's scum, then good chance he's being bussed to take heat off other scum. And if he's town, this is a fistpump lynch for scum.

I do not like this lynch.

[DOMO]

I mean it's L-3 with a week to go. Why the hurry?

[DOMO]

I do not like this lynch.

I do not like it either. But as i said... meh.

I can understand meh with a couple of days left, but I'm hating that you're voting for a lynch you do not like with plenty of time to go.

[DOMO]

Sudden push to end this day suggests we're onto something with casso. We get so much from his lynch now. If he flips scum, especially strong PR scum, then this push to kill of a claimed doc is scummy as hell, regardless of SSK's actual alignment.

I've played SSK before. He's naturally scummy. I think he is scum here, but he could just be the world's scummiest townie and actually a fucking doc. So please let's not kill him, because doing so is PREMATURE EJACULATION at best, and a horrible mistake at worst.

[DOMO]

Ok I'll force this day to drag on. I'm gonna ISO everyone with an open mind over the course of the week. We have 7 days, so I'll make sure I'm finished by Friday. Now anyone who closes this day out early is depriving tonight's probable NK from posting his thoughts. I haven't got the time to do it all quickly, I have other things to do.

If come Friday we have no better lynch, then ok I'll accept SSK.

I'm not gonna ISO geists. I'm making the assumption she's town based on my gunsmith clear and her play. If she's somehow alive at lylo, then high chance she's scum, but it's a long shot. Geists is town and should be treated as such.

I'll do casso now.

[DOMO]

I would've liked a doc counterclaim if it was quick, but now I think I'm happy enough that SSK is scum that it's not necessary. But lynching him today does not feel very optimal. I think he's either town doc or scum doc, while we have a promising lynch that has suddenly been diverted in casso. If we can be happy SSK is doc one way or another, then we're better off leaving him and swinging for other scum to increase our chances of picking off a RB'er or anything else juicy they might have.

I'm looking at casso right now. His ISO is big so it's gonna take some time.

[DOMO]

I also don't think that's a scumtell for me.

This still sticks out like a sore thumb. I was picking up early townvibes on casso, and doubt was creeping in, but then this. I just do not understand how town phrases this in such manner. OF COURSE it's not a scumtell for you if you're town. There's no doubt! Your language here expresses doubt.

I think scum.

[DOMO]

And yeah I realise we've been through this nacho, I'm now reading the exchange we had at the time. You argue that you're not all that assertive. Well actually you are. And even so, it's not a question of assertiveness, it's about mindset. It feels like it comes from scum, not town. Every time I try to interpret that comment, it feels like a scumslip.

[DOMO]

We should have lynched someone thirty pages ago.

Stuff like this I don't like either. It's not the first time casso has been talking in this way, looking for faster wagons etc. Did scum ever get quicklynched on d1?

[DOMO]

I don't even feel like I want to debate Desp.
His case is silly - anyone who thinks otherwise can tell me why.

This doesn't much feel like town nacho either. I wouldn't expect him to pass the onus onto others when it comes to defending himself against a case he deems silly.

[DOMO]

I don't believe nacho subscribes to the idea of long d1 being good for scum. Was is xenoblade where he was ridiculously active throughout the day and thriving? He was really in the groove. Why is he so against a long d1 here?

[DOMO]

Anyway I'm going out, I got to his #120 and will continue tomorrow. Don't hammer SSK while I drink and sleep please.

[DOMO]

I knew that geists looked town, so I protected them. Simple as that.

So on n1, you're happy that geists is town, so you protect her, because she's an asset to town, but on d2 after she has been cleared by gunsmith you object to her leading town.

That's what makes no sense to me. Please explain.

[DOMO]

DOMO had a bit of fucking bite when I called him a moron but has become so weak willed over everything ever since I am struggling to take on board any point he makes.

So you actually prefer it if I have bite? I wound my neck in somewhat because I don't actually like pissing people off. Why did you threaten to quit if you liked my attitude?

[DOMO]

im a complicated man DOMO, and my threat was more to do with my loss of control than your ability to make a stance and fight the fuck for it.

Fair enough. And yeah I'm totally willing to truce, I do not think you're scum at this stage; for you to be scum you're very good at faking lack of emotional control.

I just had a thought about SSK - if he's scum doc, would he claim town doc? I'm thinking scum RB'er would do well to claim town doc, because if he's tracked, he can explain why he visited a strong towny type player, rather than a scummy type player.

As for SAD, he makes me nervous, but that's largely because he owned me to shit at lylo in our other game. I'm always gonna have a hard time towning SAD. I can happily see him die because he's so fucking dangerous as scum. I'm not sure I've seen him as town before.

[DOMO]

deps is someone I *think* is town. He has a naturally abrasive manner about him, but I think his motives betray his alignment. In oz I was scumreading him from the start. Ok Oz is not a great game for meta comparison, as has been stated several times already, but I didn't feel like he was making much of an effort to appear townish. This game his motivations seem town, hence my weak town read on him.

[DOMO]

I need to finish an ISO of casso. I'm cautious because ffery hasn't supported this wagon, and I expect her to be able to read both nacho and thor better than I can. I do find it interestingthat a lot of points I make get countered before casso has even responded though. That's not necessarily an issue, if I'm alone in thinking something is scummy then I'm probably being paranoid. I have an open mind with casso.

[DOMO]

It makes no sense to me why a townie would fakeclaim doc.

[DOMO]

@ENTIRE THREAD - A CrAzY challenge! Let's try to get an L-1 wagon *before* we hit 100 pages! Can we do it!?!?! Who the heck knows!!!!

This post is surely nacho (it's been trimmed). Thor doesn't use smileys, nacho is more laid back than thor, this seems to show that nacho is also in favour of getting d1 over with. Casso, please confirm who posted this, thanks.

[DOMO]

@ENTIRE THREAD - A CrAzY challenge! Let's try to get an L-1 wagon *before* we hit 100 pages! Can we do it!?!?! Who the heck knows!!!!

This post is surely nacho (it's been trimmed). Thor doesn't use smileys, nacho is more laid back than thor, this seems to show that nacho is also in favour of getting d1 over with. Casso, please confirm who posted this, thanks.

DOMO that's Thor, and (surprise!) he's being sarcastic. Nacho actually picked up the use of at least one smilie to poke fun at Thor's frequent use of it.

I think I should just always assume it's the other head than the one I first think.

[DOMO]

I see what you are getting at but there has been a lot of talk about the use of scum doc indicating a gunsmith. It's a very ballsy play but for him to claim town doc as sc doc could be to draw a gunsmith check.

He claimed before I did, and I didn't drop any crumbs on d1, so he'd be making such a play without knowing there's a gunsmith. I'm not sure scum doc auto means gunsmith from a scum pov, it could mean vig, JOATs, or SK too. Or a decoy. I can't see a scum doc assuming gunsmith as default.

And surely a doc claim makes it less likely a gunsmith will check him out. As soon as it occured to me he could be scum doc, he was crossed off my list of potential investigations.

Thinking more about the RB'er aspect, I don't think he's scum RB'er because I feel like he'd make more effort to stay alive than he has shown. I think if he's scum, he's just given up because he's not of any use in terms of power, he's not going to live long even if he survives today, and him dying today means other scum are protected.

[DOMO]

The thing with casso is... if he's town, why the fuck would scum rather see SSK die today? I can't help feel that to assume casso is town is also to assume SSK is town. It looks a lot like SSK is a preferable lynch for scum than casso is. This for me indicates that casso is scum.

I had to reset my router so that last post has come up in pedit ten minutes later!

I've not got close to sorting bert yet. He seemed super town through d1 but today I'm not so sure. I can't put my finger on why. I intend to have a look at him after casso. I'll get round to finishing casso before I go to bed. Right now it wouldn't surprise me if casso and bert are indeed scum with SSK.

[DOMO]

Oh yeah bert voted SSK quickly after SSK claimed gesists as his action, and then bailed to casso when it looked like casso was gone. That really stinks if casso and SSK are both scum.

[DOMO]

We're looking at 4 or 5 scums, right?

I think casso bert SSK look most likely, with people like pie, ceph and SAD making up the next group.

[DOMO]

bert's votes for SSK and casso would not be hard bussing, it would be opportunistic bussing. Much easier than hard bussing. Had he been relentlessly on their case from their frist scummy comment, then maybe it's harder to see them all as scum. Let's take a look at bert's early interactions with casso and SSK...

[DOMO]

Yeah there's certainly a fair few who fall into the next group of potentials. BBQ being scum isn't all that ridiculous, but his self vote on d1 looks good and that alone has me more worried about ceph and pie. But you're right, both of them have had glimpses of town and I'm by no means confident on either.

I've skimmed a 3-way ISO between casso SSK and bert and there wasn't a great deal of interaction. That I think makes me a little more suspicious of them. There's little bits where they don't seem to be buddying, yet they don't attack each other full on. It's like a perpetual state of null while focussing on other people.

Yeah I'm really liking casso SSK and bert tbh.

SSK in partciular is very likely scum from that skim, but we knew that anyway. He's not acting like an outed town doc. He was pretty involved to begin with but since his claim his interest has dropped. That's not very pro town at all. He's scum. I still don't think we should lynch him today though.

[DOMO]

I'll say this - if we lynch through SSK casso and bert, and get three scum flips with no scum doc, lynch the shit out of geists for not supporting the casso wagon. That's the only reason I can think of that geists should be lynched. I would not suggest a cop wastes a look up on her.

[DOMO]

The more I think about it, the more obvious it is that SSK is scum. I'm a claimed gunsmith, what am I doing? Trying to figure out as much as I can before I egt NK'ed. I have a sense of obligation to do something useful before my failed crumb fucks me. SSK spewed out a doc claim on d1 and then loses interest. There is a distinct difference between the attitude of myself and SSK, and that I suspect is because we have different motives, and thus differing alignments.

But if SSK is scum and casso town, why the sudden derail of the casso wagon for SSK when SSK is a claimed town doc?

pedit - no I will not stop doing that ceph. I will likely be dead tomorrow, I've got little choice but to make assumptions based on flips yet to happen, and you insisting that I don't do it is somewhat alarming.

[DOMO]

You have a bloody gunsmith innocent on them. We are not lynching them. Those three are not all going to flip scum, and I say that without even taking my reads on them into account, it's just not gonna happen.

And you totally missed the context there. IF WE GET THREE SCUM FLIPS WITH NO SCUM DOC is quite an assumption to make. I just wanted to get this out there because I won't be alive to make this point if it actually gets there. No scum doc after three flips should start to worry the town if geists is still alive.

[DOMO]

Actually ceph is probably town. What benefit does scum have telling the most obvious NK to stop making assumptions? He's obviously gonna get told to shut up. Scum are more likely to currently be either buddied to me, indifferent or ingnoring me imo.

[DOMO]

It's weird that you don't acknowledge that three scum flips and no scum doc flip means that the clear on you is less reliable. If there's only the scum doc to find then it's obvious that my clear cannot be relied upon; it's still pretty unreliable with two left.

That reaction plus your lack of casso support has me paranoid I checked out the scum doc.

ffery, why do you suppose casso's wagon collapsed in favour of a claimed doc? Does SSK not look like a preferable lynch for scum than casso does?

pedit - generic, the chances of me actually checking out scum doc on n1 is 1 in 20, but that increases alarmingly the longer geists is left alive with no scum doc flip, and geists is using my paranoia and a former scum game of mine to move me away from that line of thinking. It almost makes me think that geists anticipates a situation where she is still alive and no scum doc has yet been killed.

PoE alone says that's not even worth discussion until later in the game.

I won't be around then.

[DOMO]

1 in 18 actually, there's a lynch and me that aren't getting looked up. Maths fail.

[DOMO]

This fit of paranoia of mine is only relevant if we get to late game with geists still alive and no scum doc flip. I won't be around in late game, obviously. Just remember this discussion if it reaches that point.

[DOMO]

I'm happy to drop the geists thing now. That was my gut reaction and it needed to be aired. I hope to be proven wrong. If we lynch scum doc then geists is 100% cleared unless we have a SK to find too. I only think town should start to worry about geists after 3 scum flips.

I really don't know how to sort SAD. I gave him a lylo win because I was so sure he was town. I'm kind of leaving him to those who can read him better. He's currently in my pool of people to look at tonight, but if I think town will lynch him in the next day or two then I'll look elsewhere.

If you don't see the parallels between the scenario you're painting and NY 165 then I can't help you.

I do see the parallels, I just expected some kind of acknowledgment that the unlikely situation I described would mean that you should be under suspicion. tbh I think if you are scum doc then I cleared you too early for it to work for you, so I'd be happy.

I want to let go of this though, I've shared my concerns and realise that it's unlikely.

[DOMO]

If Bert is scum, then the paranoia direction arrow is going to be permanently reversed and he's going to hate playing with me forever more.

This post slipped my attention. It really doesn't help that you're towning those who I'm thinking are scum. I think the sudden change to SSK looks very bad for casso and bert.

For me to consider casso as town, I feel this means SSK is town too, because otherwise casso would be a much better mislynch for scum than SSK. casso was legit vulnerable and could at least have been forced to claim. It didn't happen, instead the claimed doc gets run at. That sudden change of direction suggests to me that scum didn't really like a casso lynch. Unless scum were mostly already on him, it only takes another vote or two to push him into serious danger. Only reason SSK would be a better mislynch for scum is if he's actually town doc. So on that basis casso is a way better lynch than SSK imo. A SSK mislynch is probably worse than a casso mislynch, and SSK has at least some claim to being town because it seems like scum prefer him dead to casso.

[DOMO]

MafiaSSK (8) - zMuffinMan, geists, Desperado, Casso the King of Seals, Sakura Hana, Bert, Generic, Cephrir

If this is all town then headasplode. From a scum pov, SSK > casso. Townies should be asking why that is, and the natural conclusion is that casso is scum.

Right, poker time for me.

[DOMO]

A bert scumflip merely supports my thoughts, so it tells us that casso is still a good lynch. otoh, a bert townflip gives us little and wouldn't surprise me all that much if I'm honest, he did seem town through d1 and it's his voting around the time of the SSK lunge that has me thinking he's scum. Town can make dodgy votes too.

I like a casso lynch because I suspect he's RB'er or something else they are willing to take risks to keep alive.

[DOMO]

But that's it. Nati's vote caused a flurry, because that's a near confirmed townie supporting it. Sheeping a townie isn't much of a scum tell, so it's now a safe wagon for scum looking to save casso. If casso is town, why would scum want to look to move the wagon away from him?

[DOMO]

Yes but the difference is nero and casso. Here it's casso on the ropes. Why aren't scum seizing on a fistpump mislynch? Because they're scared to? Or because it's not a mislynch?

[DOMO]

I'm practically confirmed townie and so far I've mustered up generic's vote and arguably bro's. Does that not say something about how willing scum are to lynch casso? If he's town, then those already on him are likely to be scum, and I'm as scum as empire is.

[DOMO]

casso, why do you think scum aren't seizing on your mislynch?

[DOMO]

SSK's target claim is probably the toniest thing he's done all game.

It might be if he didn't then object to geists leading.

[DOMO]

Who are you and what have you done with bert?

[DOMO]

I think bert is scum too, those recent posts are weird. Yesterday he was on the attack and making sense, now he's on the defence and rambling. I'm starting to think casso is really important to them, it looks to me like both SSK and bert would rather die than see casso die. Maybe casso is encryptor. Either that or bert is just cracking under the pressure. But for sure bert's #4742 does not come across as natural, when compared to his posts yesterday.

[DOMO]

Why wouldn't Casso and/or SSK bus me?

Because casso is trying to bus SSK and SSK is missing? I'm just guessing here, obviously.

I'm still technically on limited access and haven't caught up. My mind changed about SSK.

Why would you change your mind if you're not caught up? Wouldn't you reserve judgement until you've had chance to read what you've missed? You're backtracking.

[DOMO]

Looking at SSK's action claim, both him and geists were online together and were involved in discussion.

I don't think geists should be given the trust as being such an official town leader. Natirasha is very reactive, and that's really not good when deciding on a very rushed or heated lynch.

Here he says that nat is reactive and geists shouldn't be trusted as town leader, even though ffery is the main head and ffery is a very good town leader.

Geists asks ssk who he protected, he then claims geists because they are an asset when town.

This is so contradictory that I can't help feel that it must be deliberate. It took over 20 minutes for him to post this reply, so plenty enough time to consider how to respond.

This looks to me fake as fuck. I think it looks bad for geists if SSK and casso flips scum. It looks like a deliberate attempt to sacrifice SSK to save casso. That's how it looks to me.

It's entirely possible that I looked at the scum doc n1. If I did that, my d2 claim is a nightmare for geists because it's too early for it to allow her to coast to an easy victory, it would be much better for her if I claim d3 or later. But it gives her influence, she will be in better position to lead the village, and thus if she is scum doc then no question she will look to use her influence to divert wagons.

ffery's responses to me today have done the opposite of comfort me. I'll admit I'm highly amused that I'm scumreading my gunsmith clear, that's not gonna happen often. But I was suspicious of her d1, hence the look up, and she's not filling me with confidence today, even as near confirmed town.

I am not suggesting we lynch her. I'm suggesting you take my comments seriously if we get three scum flips from casso bert and ssk, with no scum doc. That would show that I'm reading this game well. And if she is scum doc, I'm gonna brag that shit for ever, regardless of who wins, because that's sick soulread territory.

Until we get those three scum flips, I'm just making noise. I'm gonna be dead soon so it's important I share my concerns. This exchange between ffery and ssk supports my thinking, so I'll post it.

[DOMO]

geists = doc
casso = encryptor
ssk = RB
bert = goon
ceph = goon

I'm not happy just trying to soulread the scum team, I want their roles too.

[DOMO]

Actually replace ceph with SAD.

pedit - god yeah that white mage. Greatest mislynch ever. AP became my hero as I wacthed that unfold.

[DOMO]

Hey nati. Why don't you bus casso like bert is doing?

[DOMO]

If you think this is the case, don't you think it'd be wise to, you know, get the claimed doctor flipped?

Yeah, that's why I point out that the town should only worry about you guys if SSK casso and bert all flip scum, and there's no scum doc. That's such a long shot, but the way you guys have been today makes me think that it's something you anticipate, you're already defensive, both of you. I don't know your game nati but ffery's response surprised me, I expected her to laugh and say it's extremely unlikely but if it happens then yeah my clear on you guys is unreliable, something to that effect. I didn't expect ffery to be defensive when my attack is based on so many assumptions.

[DOMO]

There's things going on outside the game, and the site in general right now, that has ffery on the very edge of her play.

Well I hope all is well. I know I'm probably wrong, but I'd feel pretty stupid if I allowed myself to die without posting my thoughts and then it turned out I was right.

I've said enough times this is only relevant if we get no scum doc flip after casso ssk and bert all flip scum. It's pretty easy for geists to dismiss that as ridiculously unlikely, but instead they're defensive. I'm surprised I'm alone in having these concerns.

But sure if ffery has IRL shit going on then it would go some way to explaining why I'm struggling to make sense of her play.

[DOMO]

For what it's worth, I don't actually think SSK is going to flip scumdoc. The more I think about it, he likely was just fishing for a counterclaim or doing an emergency-style "get-me-through-the-night" claim.

I think he's RB, just because it's then easy to explain his night actions if he gets tracked or watched. But it's speculation. I'm pretty sure he's scum.

[DOMO]

I don't really think Domo is scum but his pushing this Casso, SSK, Bert, Geist, SAD scum team is rather craptastic.

I know, I'm quite proud of myself. I couldn't imagine a more unlikely soulread if I tried.

[DOMO]

So ok if we take geists out of the equation, why are the other four craptastic?

[DOMO]

You haven't seen a casso case? Then tell me why if he's town the brakes got slammed on his wagon in favour of a claimed doc. That's why I scumreading him so hard right now, because when push came to shove there didn't seem to be any scum interest in pushing his wagon into claim territory. That suggests scum do not want him dead. We're talking nachothor here, they would be high mislynch priority if the chance presented itself.

If you want me to be clearer with my reads, then I'm scumreading casso ssk and bert pretty hard, geists I don't trust even with a gunsmith clear, SAD and ceph are both people I feel could be scum, same with pie, norl I suspect is town but I'm not sure, muffin seems town and bro is town as fuck but he's excellent scum so I guess that makes him null.

And you can still be scum BBQ. The only thing in your favour is your self vote d1.

[DOMO]

By the way if casso or ssk happen to flip town then my ideas go out of the window and I stop scumreading geists right there.

[DOMO]

Well that was the point I was making earlier. For casso to considered town, we have to assume SSK is town. But if SSK is town, where the fuck is he? He's an outed doc, he should be towning it up as hard as he can before getting killed, exactly like I'm doing. SSK is very likely to be scum, and the fact that SSK seems easier to lynch than casso suggests to me that casso is also scum.

Does anyone understand where I'm coming from yet? It seems so simple to me.

[DOMO]

But maybe casso is more important to them than SSK is? That's why I want casso today.

[DOMO]

I would imagine that if casso is town, then bert, bro and generic are the ones I'd be looking at based on them sheeping me, but there was also goodmorning and norl on early with me.

Whatever flip we get with casso, it opens it up for us. I expect a scum flip, but a town flip would not be a disaster because his wagon is so interesting.

SSK is gonna flip scum today, tomorrow or whenever he's lynched, and we gain nothing but a scum flip.

We should take casso out while I'm still around to rally up votes.

[DOMO]

Bert is preferable to SSK from my pov, sure.

[DOMO]

a town flip would not be a disaster because his wagon is so interesting.

What would a Nacho town flip tell you?

That SSK is probably town too, and thus doc. Also, that BRO, generic and bert all look dodgy for sheeping me as I tried to muster up votes for you.

[DOMO]

Bert is preferable to SSK from my pov, sure.

Where's that vote, Bro?

On my preferred lynch.

[DOMO]

I should point out that me towning generic and bro doesn't help you casso. The fact they look dodgiest if you flip town makes me think it's all the more unlikely that you will.

[DOMO]

I also still want you to talk about this. If you want context, here's a little:

I'm not talking about that for a reason. You've surely been mislynched with scum on your wagon, showing me that it can be all town means nothing other than it can happen, which I already knew.

I figure SSK is town if you are because he is easier to lynch than you are. I suspect the only reason SSK is not already dead is because I objected so strongly.

[DOMO]

In fact it's weird that instead of assessing your wagon to decide who the scums are on it, you're showing me that you've been killed off by all town before. You're spending your time trying to distract me when you should be scum hunting.

[DOMO]

He's probably easier to lynch than I am because I contribute things and he doesn't, not because of anything that has to do with our specific alignments.

Maybe.

There's four possible scenarios at hand -

casso = town, ssk = town - I can see ssk being scum's preferred mislynch due to his claim
casso = town, ssk = scum - why did your wagon collapse in favour of ssk?
casso = scum, ssk = town - well now I'd see why ssk is easier to lynch
casso = scum, ssk = scum - well if I was on that scum team I'd sooner bus ssk than you

Way I see it, either you're both town, or you're not.

Stand behind your case and defend it; stop trying to pick at how I'm defending myself and instead try sorting me.

I've been standing behind my case all day, I've sorted you. I want you to die today because I think there's a very good chance you're scum, and if you're not, then SSK probably isn't either, and his mislynch is probably worse than yours due to his claim.

[DOMO]

nacho, SSK was at L-2 when it collapsed, and you're showing me the state of votes now?

And they'd want a lame duck doc dead because there's an outed gunsmith operating.

You're not this bad nacho. You reaching hard here.

[DOMO]

Casso the King of Seals (4) - goodmorning, DOMO, Norlkaz, Bert
MafiaSSK (3) - zMuffinMan, geists, Desperado

MafiaSSK (8) - zMuffinMan, geists, Desperado, Casso the King of Seals, Sakura Hana, Bert, Generic, Cephrir
Casso the King of Seals (3) - goodmorning, DOMO, Norlkaz

This happened over 1 page.

[DOMO]

I think Sakura is scum on the wagon.

Just sakura?

[DOMO]

Interesting that SSK is not voting for the other wagon. Surely town doc doesn't give a crap who gets lynched so long as it's not him, right?

SSK entered the game with an insta read lists, claiming to have been reading the game because awesome playerlist. Yet as soon as he claims doc he goes into hiding, popping up to vote SC, a town read of his, because deadline, and then emergin today to occasionally make some half arsed defence and then back into hiding. Obvious scum is obvious.

So why isn't he on the casso wagon guys?

[DOMO]

Also, huge props to empire for the relentless VC updates. Best mod I've seen so far.

[DOMO]

Feel free to ask Tammy, she's pretty familiar with my meta

vomit

[DOMO]

Oh god I think to myself "hey let's finish a casso ISO" and then I see I'm only 1/4 of the way through. Can we just lynch him and save me the bother? He's fucking scum, otherwise SSKscum would be on his wagon like a bad rash.

[DOMO]

I am just waiting for DOMO to post all of the analysis he can before we move onto lynch.

I'll have a two hour dive tonight and try to match that tomorrow, then we should probably decide. My concern isn't just that casso is more important to scum, indeed that is speculation, but on the other hand, if both are town, ssk is probably more important to town.

[DOMO]

SSK, who do you think is more likely to be scum? You or casso?

[DOMO]

bert is a lot more convincing than casso

[DOMO]

Ok I'm readjusting somewhat...

SAD BBQ and casso.

This assumes bert is town and casso is scum. I'm gonna look at SAD and BBQ in more depth in a few hours.

[DOMO]

SSK is still a given. I can't see him flipping town.

[DOMO]

But falcon, lynching a lurker/useless one gives us little to no info to work off

The only information lynching strong town gives us is that we're a bunch of idiots, which is not something I'm prepared to learn so early in the game.

Pedit: why don't you all lynch F-16

Unvote: Stuffed Crust
Vote: F-16

Done.
I don't even have a case on him. I don't care.

Right, so have you played f16 before?

5. F-16_Fighting_Falcon Townish.

Looking at some things that I am not allowed to admit exist, I would just like to clarify that I really like the idea of Pie getting lynched.

What the fuck is this?

Are you sure as heck that Falcon and Ffery are town

I am.
I'm also sure as heck that Stuffed Crust is town and the two top wagons suck quite a bit. Do you want to move your vote Sakura with us so the Day 1 lynch doesn't suck?

note - vote is still on f16

Why are you spending time now just tunneling Sakura?

Why now, why not earlier on during my stay here

P-edit: ok...

So do I have your vote yet?

note - yes, still

I was hoping that I would be able to attract more votes than Tammy's, but with ffery and Bert liable to join soon we can make this at least as big as the F-16 wagon.

Mac, please don't stop posting.

VOTE: Sakura Hana

And finally he shifts, and showing an awareness that he's been on f16 for so long.

What the fuck is this?

DOMO if Nati says no on SSK.

Oh yeah he tried to talk town into panic lynching me while I was on V/LA. No case, just higher chance of scum in a group containing me and SAD. And this was after I said lynching him on d1 was a huge mistake because it's nachothor. This is the same hydra that said earlier he hates lynching strong town players early. And they're happy to pick me off without me being able to claim or defend myself, because of a random unsubstanciated read.

I'm convinced he's scum.

[DOMO]

Gonna focus on BBQ after some food. I've seen enough of casso. Solid scum read. This is nothing like town nacho or town thor, except in glimpses, ie when they realise they need to town the fuck up. Less scumhunting and more reactionary posts, asking qeustions rather than pointing fingers, trying to get votes on someone he's reading town. I mean wtf is this? How is it so difficult to lynch this slot?

BECAUSE THEY ARE SCUM.

[DOMO]

I can't believe that I'm actually keeping up with this thread despite of all this walls and shit.

What I see is an attempt to stay up to date and involved in town discussion, what I don't see is an effort to analyse people's posts and challenge people who you feel are scummy.

Well, there you go. The former explains the latter!

These posts contradict each other. He brushed off my comment with bullshit.

Korean's ISO is a massive ball of fluff. So many posts with so little content.

There's likely scum cluttering things up. (geists?)

Ok if korean flips scum I would suggest people have a good look at who geists was scumreading just before this comment was made, because I would suspect bbq would be trying to discredit geists, which in turn suggests her reads at this point were solid.

At this point, I just want someone lynched.

Comment like this I believe at least increases the probability of the author being scum.

I dunno, I've started skimming which is a strong indication I'm losing interest, so I'll stop for now. The first half of his ISO seems really fluffy, but the second half was looking better, a little more town motivated. I'm really not so sure about BBQ and will have a look again at the 2nd half tomorrow when I'm feeling more motivated.

casso most ceratinly reamins a scumread.

[DOMO]

There was a quote fail there somewhere. Pfft.

I wrote this -

Ok if korean flips scum I would suggest people have a good look at who geists was scumreading just before this comment was made, because I would suspect bbq would be trying to discredit geists, which in turn suggests her reads at this point were solid.

[/quote]

[DOMO]

And this.

These posts contradict each other. He brushed off my comment with bullshit.

It makes sense if you try hard.

I'm getting tired, as you can see.

[DOMO]

fwiw if Casso is town then SAD is scum

also, if Tammy is good at reading casso that might explain the tammy kill 0.0

tammy is good at reading 75% of this playerlist. we all benefitted from her death.

What the fuck is this man? This can't be town, how does town benefit from tammy's death? This is either the worst scumslip I can possibly imagine actually happening, or town posting shit purely to look scummy so he can play scum easier, or some shit like that. It makes no sense as town, and is awful as scum.

Please explain this.

[DOMO]

Possibly. Maybe they're bussing you.

unvote

I'm going out, I'll take a look at this when I'm back.

desp and ceph have just shot up my list.

[DOMO]

idk about ceph actually, for some reason I thought he was on casso too, and him ignoring desp's comment sorta pinged.

desp though really needs to explain that post.

[DOMO]

I suppose. I wish you'd have let him answer that. But I still find it weird because I don't feel like I benifitted from tammy's death, we'd be better off if she were still alive, so I don't see how that mindset is town.

[DOMO]

I'm probably still gonna vote casso, but I need to take this in a little. My lift is here, back in a few hours.

[DOMO]

Considering what we went through for me to firstly trust your opinions, secondly understand your opinion and thirdly agree with your opinion... Go fuck yourself DOMO.

Cmon man you need to not be so emotional. I'm pretty sure that I go on to say that because I'm towning you and bro that makes me feel it's more unlikely that casso flips town. I can't speculate you're scum in a game of mafia without you jumping down my neck? I would love to play you at poker.

[DOMO]

I didn't think you would understand. It's mafia game theory, you have shown nothing to make me believe you have a clue.

Closing the door - to pre empt what the person you are arguing with will post next to spin such a response as scummy. Generally seen as a scum tactic because of the nature of its purpose, to promote your opponent as scummy by creating a supposed template of how a scum player would respond.

In other words, trying to paint me into a corner for your own personal gain in the arguement.

Maybe you need a mentor cephrir.

I've got to say I like this post.

[DOMO]

By the way, you can shove your patronizing attitude up your ass.

Haha I like this too.

This is town town bickering.

[DOMO]

If generic is faking this shit then god damn he's fucking awesome.

[DOMO]

I really don't think this is scum ceph.

[DOMO]

generic is town as shit too.

[DOMO]

You do realize that

1: Nacho and Thor are two different people in that hydra
2: Nacho has been hard defending f-16 and the only reason their vote was on him was because Thor had put it there
3: Nacho didn't wanna move the vote without finding a common ground, first and F-16 wasn't in danger of getting lynched at the point of where the wagon was sitting in that state
4:Hydra diss. is a real thing

1. Yes I do.
2. And why did thor put it there when nacho is hard towning?
3. And?
4. Hydra diss can be faked.

how many times have you played with both of them, and how many times where you correct in reading them?

A handful between then, don't recall either being scum so we're talking a small sample of town games, thus I'm still learning their games.

More Desperado votes would be nice

No.

and people not on a big wagon need to get on one, right now

Yes.

vote casso

[DOMO]

Casso would be an asset if they were town. I'm not feeling casso as a huge asset right now. I wonder why that is?

ffery, did you explain your interpretation of desp's comment? You don't seem to think it's a scumslip, yet that's who you're voting for.

[DOMO]

I don't think it's a scumslip either. Who said that had to be the end all be all? [/jumpingintoothers'linesofquestioning]

I can see how it can come from town, so I guess I agree now it's not a slip.

So why are people voting him?

[DOMO]

What do you think about Desp doing nothing, and not even trying to push my lynch despite me being his strongest scumread?

I dunno let me take a look at him for you.

[DOMO]

desp started off tyring to buddy sakura. That then collapsed into a scumread. That feels reasonably town motivated. Not pushing for #1 scumread isn't in its own right a scum tell, that then comes down to meta. I've played desp once and we was more aggressive. I don't see him calling those who scumreading him an idiot, although he might have. I found him to be quite rude in the face of critisism in oz, where I consider him to have been sort of scum. Here he just seems dismissive.

I'm leaning town with desp, but my meta with him is very limited and complicated due to the nature of our last game.

pedit - Do you agree or not that this is not the same desp we saw in oz?

[DOMO]

Well it's better than nothing. It's my only game with desp, and I read him reasonably well, despite the confusion as to what was going on. So I believe it's a fair source when it comes to a vague town read.

[DOMO]

You read him well in a game where no one had a real alignment?

Does it matter to you how I form my reads? If you're questioning my honesty or motive, fair enough. But you know I'm town, so why press me on this? Distraction perhaps? It's a vague read I have here on desp, enough to not want to lynch him today, enough for me to try and talk the town into going for you instead.

[DOMO]

I'm questioning your methods because I don't think they are leading to accurate conclusions.

Well forgive me for finding it tough to trust your honesty here. I'm scumreading you. I'm not scumreading desp.

[DOMO]

please click my username and find some actual games if you're going to try and meta me

I can't be bothered, I'm too lazy. Plus I don't need to. Why the fuck would scum ridicule a conf townie who is townreading him?

[DOMO]

in fact, knowing she was already banned for it once makes it more likely that she's scum for it...otherwise she would be facing another ban, right?

Nah I don't like this. You'd think if a rule is broken, then it's force replace regardless of alignment. Lack of force replace is not alignment indicative, nor should it be presented as such.

[DOMO]

I don't even understand that ban.