NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Casso the King of Seals]

I read through Nacho's reads list in the Perpetual MYLO game and it doesn't seem similar to those reads-lists at all. Nacho's reads morph to fit what is generally accepted to the town. For instance the Bert townread after being questioned on why Bert is an Angel in waiting. The Pieguyn townread after it becomes apparent that he won't be lynched considering I showed in detail that he is playing to his town meta. I also strongly disagree with the Cephrir townread.

Top scumreads in order:
Cephrir
MafiaSSK
Casso

VOTE: Cephrir

Bert townread started as an Angel as a knee jerk response to his entrance, which seemed town as shit to me. In my next reads list, he got downgraded a little because he does have a scum game that can convince me in the moment and then leave him to coast for a long long time (see: white flag game). I reread him and saw paranoia that didn't seem at all like the artificial interaction that occurs in his scum play, so I felt happy upgrading him again. Strong pieguyn townread game recently, and was a bit after (ffery?) expressed doubts with the read. You're correct that I would have him as town as scum because he's obviously town, but I can see that as town just as easily as I can see it as scum. I would suggest you meta Cephrir in order to get a better idea of what I'm seeing there; I can guarantee you wouldn't have a scumread on him if you put in the work to read him.

My reads follow consensus at some points because a lot of players are synced up and all seeing the same thing (see: the Sakura situation). If you think some of my reads deviate opportunistically or follow where they shouldn't be following, call me out on it.

[Casso the King of Seals]

I know it doesn't usually pan out this way, but I sincerely hope you're all disappointed in yourselves when you inevitably lynch me. You'll probably justify it to yourselves by saying it's my fault for playing poorly, but in reality it will be your fault for not listening to the players who've actually played a ton of games with me.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Just popped in briefly to keep up to date with this one, and can I point out that while I don't know cephrirs meta this is such a generic town tell I'm inclined to question the wagon on him.

Read WE THE PURPLE in Coney Island, as part of the generic method I virtually post the same thing at nachotammy.

I prefer the casso wagon right now as I haven't been convinced by nachos play compared to past town games of his I've been in, and Thor seems to just contradict everything nacho posts to cover all the inconsistencies.
Only nagging issue I have is people like mcmaraca and geists being hesitant on the casso wagon... That makes me think I've missed something.

vote withheld until I'm back properly and can read the cases.

What town games of mine have I played better in?

[Casso the King of Seals]

Also, Thor contradicts everything Nacho posts to cover all the inconsistencies? No, Thor posts and creates inconsistencies.

[Casso the King of Seals]

Re: Bert making a presence: when Bert came into the thread, he dropped 200 posts in thread, which is a hell of a presence. Yes, a lot of them were nonsensical fluff and shit, but a lot of them were decent observations and real paranoia. I'll show you what I mean by "real paranoia", Bert isn't just going "lol Nacho you sound Robotic" or I'm not towning hard enough or things like that, every attack that he has on me has a background somewhere which shows that he's thinking back to my play elsewhere. The reason that usually gets me with declaring Bert town prematurely is that he sounds fearless in his interactions with me (used to be a town tell back in the Nachopappa days), but the paranoia he's bringing up here is constant and genuine as fuck.

[Casso the King of Seals]

hey thanks my eyes hurt now but I still love you man <3

Casso the King of Seals - Didn't really analyze yet, but nacho's usually the kind who protects weak, so he picking up Brian could mean that he's scum.

this is pretty legit though as an observation, i gotta admit i like your observation here, it puts me on my tippy toes and now I'm very wary of Nacho even though I haven't really gotten into this game yet.

Reference, chosen mafia. Bert got paranoid of me because of my pushes on low-hanging fruit, constantly challenged me on it, made me double check my reads on stronger players. The closest he's come to faking this paranoia as scum was an off-hand comment in White Flag (that I'm not even sure he made???).

[Casso the King of Seals]

mmhmm. and if you really were trying to sort me, i'd expect you to have, you know... actually done something to try and sort me. but you haven't done that and you're not doing that.

I would like to hear from Tammy and others if they feel Nacho has naturally sorted them out, as I recall that's how Tammy caught Nacho in our last game. I think she's V/LA though so :/

Oh, also

Vote: Casso

Originally, Hard Boiled comparison didn't really strike me as anything significant (easy to fake since no direct comparison). What gave this bit of the read depth was that I found it was very genuine that Bert had Hard Boiled on the mind a little after making the comparison: he made a Cephrir-DOMO comparison based on a player he wasn't familiar with syncing up with him and strong towning him pretty much immediately, and then he asked Tammy how I sorted her since Tammy could easily peg Hard Boiled Nacho. That's a lot more than the subtle throwaway comments Bert-scum usually directs at me, and not something I think he'd think of as scum at all.

[Casso the King of Seals]

Who played in Hrry otter with me? Did Tammy get defensive/upset like this?

Whoever wrote this makes me feel weird

So you do believe that the scumteam is formed of "Nacho and a bunch of lurkers"? Meaning if you're wrong on me, your scumteam is... "a bunch of lurkers"?

this is like totally a valid concern but it's weird of a person named Nacho to ask something like that

Sorry skimming randomly at this point guys cuz idk what's going on

also is it just me or is Broseidon's ISO pretty underwhelming...it's almost like Empire lurking as scum or something and doing as little as possible

Bunch of lurkers comment is also a reference to Chosen, missed that one before.

[Casso the King of Seals]

You're reminding me of Micro 189 where you just tunneled a scumread near deadline as scum and were vague about your other opinions's strengths

You looked in that game too much at the non-broader picture

Mentor-Mentee reference, which was the Wally Nacho that Bert referenced later in his ISO.

[Casso the King of Seals]

And I missed the quote in his ISO, but there was also a mention of certain players being scummy because they aren't consensus townreads; this is a reference for Skype mafia games, where Bert will pretty much insta vote me the moment someone calls me scum, but sheets me beforehand. So, what his read on me and me alone has where it doesn't show up elsewhere is depth. It's not too hard for Bert to make references as scum, sure, but these references are elements of my game here that he remembers in my games elsewhere, and it is a hell of a lot deeper than his reads on me in any scumgame ever.

[Casso the King of Seals]

Spoiler: quotes

Boro seems town feels natural in comments, bubba too he is trying to advance the game pretty naturally as in it doesn't stuck out like a scum sore thumb

Regina we need to talk, Mario too let's have some deep conversations how about that

Notscience is playing around loosely, and super tunnel happy, seems town

Nacho is feeling alright but he controls his tones well so naturalness at this point not a good indicator

I don't remember much about the rest of you, but yeah Regina sticks out with his or her reactions to people calling out her/his name which feels weird

Same with Mario - ffery would say to sort and move on I think

Boro seems town feels natural in comments, bubba too he is trying to advance the game pretty naturally as in it doesn't stuck out like a scum sore thumb

Regina we need to talk, Mario too let's have some deep conversations how about that

Notscience is playing around loosely, and super tunnel happy, seems town

Nacho is feeling alright but he controls his tones well so naturalness at this point not a good indicator

I don't remember much about the rest of you, but yeah Regina sticks out with his or her reactions to people calling out her/his name which feels weird

Same with Mario - ffery would say to sort and move on I think

Interesting. So I stopped posting for a day and the thread becomes much more active. Easy to make the correct conclusion about my posting= - yessiree my posts are unnecessarily spammy haha

Both players in the ns vs. ETL feel natural and townish. both sides are feeling so tunnely in their thought processes, which I expect from ns...whereas ETL's overdefensiveness fits the vibe I recall from 1462.

you guys are on a roll, which is really super awesome yall...keep it up!

also the nachomamma thing whom I have never met, he/she feels very erratic which is an odd choice of playstyle to continue utilizing. bah. Maybe I'm insane for thinking that, but I will look back at other peoples tomorrow. Carry on

Boro seems town feels natural in comments, bubba too he is trying to advance the game pretty naturally as in it doesn't stuck out like a scum sore thumb

Regina we need to talk, Mario too let's have some deep conversations how about that

Notscience is playing around loosely, and super tunnel happy, seems town

Nacho is feeling alright but he controls his tones well so naturalness at this point not a good indicator

I don't remember much about the rest of you, but yeah Regina sticks out with his or her reactions to people calling out her/his name which feels weird

Same with Mario - ffery would say to sort and move on I think

Interesting. So I stopped posting for a day and the thread becomes much more active. Easy to make the correct conclusion about my posting= - yessiree my posts are unnecessarily spammy haha

Both players in the ns vs. ETL feel natural and townish. both sides are feeling so tunnely in their thought processes, which I expect from ns...whereas ETL's overdefensiveness fits the vibe I recall from 1462.

you guys are on a roll, which is really super awesome yall...keep it up!

also the nachomamma thing whom I have never met, he/she feels very erratic which is an odd choice of playstyle to continue utilizing. bah. Maybe I'm insane for thinking that, but I will look back at other peoples tomorrow. Carry on

NotBert, what did you think of my latest reads?

246 Chosen redux wrt low hanging juicy fruit leftovers

/phone

Boro seems town feels natural in comments, bubba too he is trying to advance the game pretty naturally as in it doesn't stuck out like a scum sore thumb

Regina we need to talk, Mario too let's have some deep conversations how about that

Notscience is playing around loosely, and super tunnel happy, seems town

Nacho is feeling alright but he controls his tones well so naturalness at this point not a good indicator

I don't remember much about the rest of you, but yeah Regina sticks out with his or her reactions to people calling out her/his name which feels weird

Same with Mario - ffery would say to sort and move on I think

Interesting. So I stopped posting for a day and the thread becomes much more active. Easy to make the correct conclusion about my posting= - yessiree my posts are unnecessarily spammy haha

Both players in the ns vs. ETL feel natural and townish. both sides are feeling so tunnely in their thought processes, which I expect from ns...whereas ETL's overdefensiveness fits the vibe I recall from 1462.

you guys are on a roll, which is really super awesome yall...keep it up!

also the nachomamma thing whom I have never met, he/she feels very erratic which is an odd choice of playstyle to continue utilizing. bah. Maybe I'm insane for thinking that, but I will look back at other peoples tomorrow. Carry on

NotBert, what did you think of my latest reads?

246 Chosen redux wrt low hanging juicy fruit leftovers

/phone

Yeah I let go of my confused reads one by one

what's your impression of nacho? gut leans town but I'm not sure

Boro seems town feels natural in comments, bubba too he is trying to advance the game pretty naturally as in it doesn't stuck out like a scum sore thumb

Regina we need to talk, Mario too let's have some deep conversations how about that

Notscience is playing around loosely, and super tunnel happy, seems town

Nacho is feeling alright but he controls his tones well so naturalness at this point not a good indicator

I don't remember much about the rest of you, but yeah Regina sticks out with his or her reactions to people calling out her/his name which feels weird

Same with Mario - ffery would say to sort and move on I think

Interesting. So I stopped posting for a day and the thread becomes much more active. Easy to make the correct conclusion about my posting= - yessiree my posts are unnecessarily spammy haha

Both players in the ns vs. ETL feel natural and townish. both sides are feeling so tunnely in their thought processes, which I expect from ns...whereas ETL's overdefensiveness fits the vibe I recall from 1462.

you guys are on a roll, which is really super awesome yall...keep it up!

also the nachomamma thing whom I have never met, he/she feels very erratic which is an odd choice of playstyle to continue utilizing. bah. Maybe I'm insane for thinking that, but I will look back at other peoples tomorrow. Carry on

NotBert, what did you think of my latest reads?

246 Chosen redux wrt low hanging juicy fruit leftovers

/phone

Yeah I let go of my confused reads one by one

what's your impression of nacho? gut leans town but I'm not sure

Nacho's less paranoid with his reads this game, I think I remarked in this game how this game reminds me of Nacho in Mini 1460 where he gave off this apathetic vibe that almost saved his life N1 but they killed him before he could wake up adn smell the roses

Boro seems town feels natural in comments, bubba too he is trying to advance the game pretty naturally as in it doesn't stuck out like a scum sore thumb

Regina we need to talk, Mario too let's have some deep conversations how about that

Notscience is playing around loosely, and super tunnel happy, seems town

Nacho is feeling alright but he controls his tones well so naturalness at this point not a good indicator

I don't remember much about the rest of you, but yeah Regina sticks out with his or her reactions to people calling out her/his name which feels weird

Same with Mario - ffery would say to sort and move on I think

Interesting. So I stopped posting for a day and the thread becomes much more active. Easy to make the correct conclusion about my posting= - yessiree my posts are unnecessarily spammy haha

Both players in the ns vs. ETL feel natural and townish. both sides are feeling so tunnely in their thought processes, which I expect from ns...whereas ETL's overdefensiveness fits the vibe I recall from 1462.

you guys are on a roll, which is really super awesome yall...keep it up!

also the nachomamma thing whom I have never met, he/she feels very erratic which is an odd choice of playstyle to continue utilizing. bah. Maybe I'm insane for thinking that, but I will look back at other peoples tomorrow. Carry on

NotBert, what did you think of my latest reads?

246 Chosen redux wrt low hanging juicy fruit leftovers

/phone

Yeah I let go of my confused reads one by one

what's your impression of nacho? gut leans town but I'm not sure

Nacho's less paranoid with his reads this game, I think I remarked in this game how this game reminds me of Nacho in Mini 1460 where he gave off this apathetic vibe that almost saved his life N1 but they killed him before he could wake up adn smell the roses

Ok I'm back, quick skimming makes me think ETL was town and Bert is scum.

Unvote
Vote: Startfromtheheart

Seriously, ugh. More posts coming later. I am PUMPED UP now

With my Boro vote, I was like hey Bubba made a good point, so I'm gonna NOT sheep a townread for once and go with what I'm thinking. I told myself this morning I was going to get to this game tonight and blow you away with my love.

Forget it, I'm going to give everything now SINCE you think I'm scum for whatever reason

I'm NOT going HEY LET'S JUMP ON ETL or NS

I really don't have any real solid reads

You've been absent for most of this game and V/LA, comments now on the game please! Get out of your hidey hole.............

<Ffery/GIF> *seems* super duper town but ffery makes me paranoid, but BUT BUT ETL gives me roses and all kinds of perfumey smells I like that

<Neonizer, Marcrell> newb town

<notscience> territunnel town

<Mara, mario, regina> - lurker don't know, regina reminds me of Yiley 1429, newb passes be darned

Boro's antics are so in-your-face, my reads here aren't developed at all yet, I'd go with

<Bubba, Nacho> confused, yada-babada, and did I mention I can't read nacho or ffery well because you know it's true

<Boro> started out feeling natural but has gotten worse =/ and is fencesitting

Sakura I *think* your audacious vote on me is town. This way of voting me is not funny!!!

Compare the read he has on me here to the read he had here (quotes repeated like crazy because iPad does weird shit like that, it's why I am generally forced to buldermar). His read on me there was hedgy but clearly wanted to read me as town, references were direct and not nearly as varied, seriously seriously seriously lacking in paranoia.

[Sakura Hana]

I thought I had posted then i realized I hadn't even read the last couple of pages.

[Sakura Hana]

unvote
vote: casso

omgus is a hell of a drug

and my d1 scumteam nightmares are looking more realistic by the day

that is problematic

I don't like neither of these posts. First one looks like an opportunistic OMGUS, Second one I thought I was your scumread D1?...

[zMuffinMan]

Don't like that Muffin person

i think i asked you about this at the end of D1 and don't remember you answering. why?

My main concern with Muffin at this point is that there's nothing in his posts I can point to and strongly declare him town because of it

*shrug* tbh, i can't think of any things i do as town that i wouldn't also potentially do as scum (and i think most of the difference between my scum and town play comes from interactions, and it's not as black and white as "i do this as town and not as scum"), so i dunno what you're expecting here and it feels like you're just using this as an excuse to call me a scum read

I like the stronger than consensus townread on BRO since it's Muffin shutting down a mislynch option when I'm guessing mislynch options are fairly sparse

you supposedly have a scum read on BRO, don't you? or at least he's not a townread? this statement doesn't make sense.

[zMuffinMan]

heh. i dunno why so many people are suggesting keeping mafiassk alive is the correct move. as much as i think casso is scum, mafiassk is basically claiming scum in every post now

Vote: mafiassk

[goodmorning]

Don't understand Nacho-Cephrir thing.

I'm saying that there's no reason to assume either of you is Town; I'm also saying that interaction makes the most sense if both of you are Scum.

You are a player who starts slowly and a player who I generally don't get great reactions from pushing early.

Yeah, again, I'm going to disagree with the slow starting statement.

Also it seems you've never pushed me early, so how would you know what quality of reactions you'd get from me if you did?

[Sakura Hana]

Providing my own opinion on why thinking of geists as a town leader is badidea.

Yet he protected them last night...

Ugh can't decide between desp and SSK now...

[Desperado]

He's pretty much ignored everything I've stated post-mason claim and his chances of being scum is much higher than it is for anyone else. he isn't as engaged as I would think he would be, and he still didn't explain why he thought the things I've done this game isn't indicative of town-mara

isn't that what you wanted? enough with this "but dat daytalk!!!!" bullshit--you took the easy way out and now i get to call you town and ignore you

why the fuck would i waste my already limited time justifying my scumread on you from before you claimed mason?

ps your stickiness here isn't helping my nightmares at all

[Desperado]

@ nacho: you quoted it bud

[Desperado]

unvote
vote: casso

omgus is a hell of a drug

and my d1 scumteam nightmares are looking more realistic by the day

that is problematic

I don't like neither of these posts. First one looks like an opportunistic OMGUS, Second one I thought I was your scumread D1?...

you were

...?

[geists]

hey thanks my eyes hurt now but I still love you man <3

Casso the King of Seals - Didn't really analyze yet, but nacho's usually the kind who protects weak, so he picking up Brian could mean that he's scum.

this is pretty legit though as an observation, i gotta admit i like your observation here, it puts me on my tippy toes and now I'm very wary of Nacho even though I haven't really gotten into this game yet.

Reference, chosen mafia. Bert got paranoid of me because of my pushes on low-hanging fruit, constantly challenged me on it, made me double check my reads on stronger players. The closest he's come to faking this paranoia as scum was an off-hand comment in White Flag (that I'm not even sure he made???).

Also, think about BRO's Open 534 and Bert's reactions to my posts when GiF/I replaced into the game just a couple days before nightfall. His paranoia was goofy and almost entirely comprised of non-contextual references to other games, and had nothing at all to do with what I was posting. In this game, it took very little pushback for him to throw down a vote and need a break from the intensity. The intensity was internal because the paranoia was genuine. I really hadn't leaned on him that hard.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I am still in the process of doing a meta-dive on Cephrir.

Geists, what are your thought about Cephrir?

[geists]

I am still in the process of doing a meta-dive on Cephrir.

Geists, what are your thought about Cephrir?

I'm working on a reply to this and to your question about Sakura's scum games, but multitasking is pulling me in a ton of different directions.

[Cephrir]

It depresses me slightly that other people are doing more work on me wrt this game than I am doing at all for this game. Oh well.

[MC Maraca]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=23115

vs.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=22709

[DOMO]

I think SSK is scum.

I do not think we should lynch him today.