Open 512: See Nine Plus Plus (Game Ovah)
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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In post 38, Varsoon wrote:@Cherry: Because I wanted to see what people would say, mostly. Everyone always says they are town. Mixing things up gets the game rolling, don't you know?
@Glass: Well, glad I found someone else who's read all of it. I really like those two works. Anyway, to the game--why is hydra voteswapping scummy?
@Saki: Looks like Haruko from FLCL, but I know that's not the case. Also, got anything to say about the game-state?
@Titus: Not really a random vote if you're laying a vote on a player who's posted a few times so far and read the thread to this point. What's suspicious about Cherry?
My first post, I always include a vote on a player that hasn't had any pressure on them thus far. Who that is, I figure at random, so I considered it a random vote.
As for Cherry, I did feel the vote swapping thing was a little suspicious. I'm not used to dealing with hydras though, so I'm not really sure how to read those players yet. Any player I'm not sure how to read yet, I'm naturally a little paranoid over.-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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You have seen the town push for a policy lynch this early? When?In post 52, Varsoon wrote:@Pasche: Heya! Sorry I placed out of the last game we had, but couldn't handle the work-load. Glad to see you as conf-town here. Not sure if I agree with your Saki point, since I've seen plenty of town cull votes for lynches in a similar fashion. Reads as null for me.
Which, you know, I could vote for because I don't like the process, but that's like the pot calling the kettle black. Eh, maybe I'm over-thinking it. It's 6 AM here, so I'll post when I'm more coherent.
Also, this has a feeling of buddying.-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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I'm leaning towards Saki being serious but the guy trolls a whole lot. I can't tell yet whether it's his playstyle or him seriously pushing.In post 55, Glass wrote:Titus and Pasch:
Do you think that Saki was being serious when he was pushing for a policy lynch?-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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I am not certain if he's scum. I am concerned if I jump on, more people might and the bandwagon might reach the point of no return. There are already a few people voting Saki. If I was certain Saki was scum, I'd vote him without caring if he might eventually wind up lynched. However, I'm not. If there wasn't already a train on Saki, I'd vote him to see what happened.In post 59, Glass wrote:So why aren't you voting Saki?
So, do you care to share this history with the rest of the class Varsoon?-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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L-3 isn't the point of no return. However, if more players jump onto the Saki bandwagon and become convinced, it would reach the point of no return. It's early in the day, let's keep our options open until we are certain someone is scum.
Yeah, I do think policy lynches are scummy. We should lynch who we believe to be scummy, not based on policy.-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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@Dr. Pepper/Glass, I fear the point of no return due to the value Saki provides if s/he is town. If Saki's town, that's a player unafraid to risk their own hide to try and catch scum. That's not someone we want strung up so early. Suspicious =/= scummy. I know I am suspicious of those with play styles different than my own. I try to only vote those who are RVS or who I am convinced are scum.
I'm sure my opinion on Saki will be clarified in a few more posts from him/her.-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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I am a conservative voter, but an aggressive pressurer and questioner. I wasn't pushing for a hydra lynch, as you properly saw. I just said I have no idea how to read hydras so they'll get extra attention from me. When I do vote someone, I want it to be clear why I'm voting that particular person with a logic that is clearly understood. I do agree with you that JMO needs to be pressured. I hate naked voting as it leaves little to analyze.In post 86, Dyslexicon wrote:Aw, I'm too late to OMGUS this =/
Ironically I think Saki's chaotic style is creating discussion and this generally serves town.In post 39, Flench wrote:Leaving my vote with Saki because worst town posts so far.
Explanation for this?In post 48, Paschendale wrote:I like Flench for town.
Saki, has some rather chaotic/trolling posts, and gathered some votes for this. Somehow I don't think scum would be this out there from the start, but other than this I don't find it easy to read alignment in his posts.
Titus, seems overly cautious. I don't like that he forwards Saki being scummy, but also seems afraid that people will be convinced and the wagon growing. Also, I don't get how one can take the push for lynching all hydras seriously, I highly doubt it's going to be a popular idea any time soon.
Would you say you are a conservative voter?
VOTE: Titus-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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I do not believe in overthought/overanalysis, only good or bad analysis.
As for my meta look at newbie 1372 (town) and 1380 (ongoing but it's the only game where I've flipped scum on this site; i subbed in towatds the end of day 1). The bulk of my meta is at sc2mafia.com. The setup there is a bit different (24 hour days, more PRs), but that is where I have played the most.-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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Still, we'd like to know your reason for this post.
It almost sounds like you're buddying me jmo. You've mentioned me a lot with no direct questions.
@TunnelVision - Not Michael Jackson in my AV (at least I don't think so). I've never played with an innocent child either. I just play as if there's a non-existent sheriff who has confirmed the child as town. Also, if you have any questions, feel free to ask. Just because we have similar playstyles doesn't mean that you're prohibited from reading me.-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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Yeah pot calling the kettle black there with Glass/jmo. I also don't like this talk about me being an easy lynch target. Glass why did you vote me on 64?
The fair assessment of my experience is moderate level. I'm not a total newbie but I'm not an expert as to the ins and outs of this site.
I understand what you were saying about reading me now Tunnel. We like those who are like ourselves... there's a term for that fallacy. I can't remember it though. Oh well.
@Mod, Why is the deadline August 2nd? I thought games had a two week day deadline.-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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In post 132, Varsoon wrote:@Titus: My text-walls are typically 2-hour endeavors that mark up to 3,000 words in length and have always been, to this point, wrong.
So here's a quick reads list with no nulls, since nulls are for rubes.
Vote Me - Town. (Good responses, seems engaged, buddying perhaps?)
jmo16mla - Scum. (Is too curt, disengages hard, deflects hard, empty votes)
Glass - Town. (Highly analytical, engages with a pro-town mentality)
StubbsKVM - Scum. (One post? Lame.)
CherryDrPepper (hydra of Sakura Hana and DoctorPepper) - Town. (Hydra malarky is hydra malarky, but seems justified so far)
TunnelVision (hydra of Rank and likeabauss) - Scum (Two posts, seems like a fence-sitter. Wants to know what others think more than asserting himself. Grow a pair or get lynched.)
Titus - Town. (Engages with different players, isn't engaged in distracting meta-malarky, is to-the-point and pro-town about info gathering)
Paschendale - Confirmed Town.
Saki - Scum. (Might be village idiot. Vote hopping like no tomorrow and worse empty votes than JMO. My vote would be here, but I always feel naughty when I vote people on V/LA.)
Dyslexicon - Town. (Or, at least, is playing way more town in those two posts then I've ever seen the player play town. Really engaged and probing in the right areas, I feel. Also, to answer, it feels like no one else wants to pressure JMO or Saki for voting without articulation. That shit bugs me.)
oriole - Town. (attenative, albiet weaker plays so far. Worth keeping an eye on.)
Flench - Scum. (No articulation, stirs up the pot from time to time, highly reactionary in play rather than probing/info-gathering.)
Anyway, that's that. Thanks for keeping things in a row for when I head out, DBK.
Hope this helps, Titus.
Oh, also,
Unvote
I -really- want to vote Saki, but it's against my mojo to stick votes on someone VLA.
It does a little but you have far too many scums, but this is what I would have called a wall for this early in the game. Do you start from a position of scum? Five scum reads seems a little much, almost as if you're trying to avoid a null read because they are for "rubes" (what are rubes?).
I do see your concern Oriole. His first post was very buddying to me but maybe he is just publically trying to explain any hydra shift? I don't know. Varsoon worries me for another reason, because he's sent the group looking for meta (not my strong point, because I value it so little). If his comments are right about his role being obvious to anyone who has played with him extensively, then perhaps maybe someone who plays with Vasson extensively can just answer the question without looking through the meta?-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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The more I see. The more convinced I am Saki is indeed a mislynch. In post 35, Saki says "town points to whoever guesses my avatar". That's a pretty good way to trap newbie scum, because they will indeed guess at it. No one fell for it, but it was an excellent way to spark discussion. Saki also got voted up very quickly after Paschendale voted Saki. Flench's vote before Paschendale was a clear OMGUS. CherryDr.Pepper's next post was a sheeping post for the exact same reason as Paschendale's. I'm not sure if that's Sakuna's play to be a sheep, but Dr. Pepper wouldn't sheep like that. The attention on Saki is easy because s/he is afk.
Also, Flench v jmo looks like scum's in it somewhere. Flench, your posts weren't clear at all. In fact 39, almost looks like a slip. "Worst town posts so far"... how would Flech have known at the point Saki was making the posts that Saki was indeed town? Flench then says he mentions his scum targets in post 118, but it's not really clear who he FoSed at all. I think Fletch made a typo. Two posts up he says Varsoon and Glass are scummy. Still I really don't like post 39 upon further analysis.
I also don't like Vasoon's contradictions about meta.-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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You meant post 116 is where you said people were scummy right? You typed 118.In post 148, Flench wrote:Looking back I think my posts were pretty clear.-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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In post 39, Flench wrote:Leaving my vote with Saki because.worst town posts so far
Agree Titus's vote did not seem random.
inb4 anime circles.
Oriole, what do you think of this? The bold and italics are my additions.-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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If I'm not your scum target, as you indicated on post 116, then why wouldn't you want your posts to be clear to me? This sounds like a deliberate stall tactic.In post 156, Flench wrote:If there is another person besides jmo and titus who is confused by my posting I will take the time to explain it.
I still think it is clear.-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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@Glass, these are the posts I'm talking about with Varsoon being conflicting on meta.
In post 127, Varsoon wrote:Otherwise, people bringing up my meta are stupid--there's a huge thing I drop in every single one of my games that is a sure-fire way to tell my alignment. Therefore, anyone doing substantial meta work on me already know what alignment and role I am, and, furthermore, can explain -how- they know.In post 132, Varsoon wrote:EXCERPT
Titus - Town.(Engages with different players, isn't engaged in distracting meta-malarky, is to-the-point and pro-town about info gathering)
I -really- want to vote Saki, but it's against my mojo to stick votes on someone VLA.In post 137, Varsoon wrote:@TunnelVision: Your first block of text is why I find meta ineffective. Because I have a controlled variable that gives away my alignment, I can change it at any time. It's a meta way of me causing trouble for people who rely on the meta. You probably wouldn't get it, since it might be too meta for you.
He tells us there's confirmation of his role in meta. Then he applauds me for not using meta. Then, he claims the whole thing is a way of causing trouble for relying on meta. That doesn't make sense at all, especially within 10 posts of each other.-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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I think I get this and it tells me a lot about the setup if accurate. I doubt you would be so aggressive in advertising as scum buddies.In post 167, Vote Me wrote:I'll be V/LA (just from now until tomorrow), but I will say that I am probably never voting Varsoon ever.-
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@Pachendale, Slips are a weak reason for a vote? To me, if it's a confirmed slip, it's the BEST reason to vote for someone short of night action confirming them as scum. I understand that some disagree with me on that being a slip though.
I'm agreeing with Glass on jmo. There were examples of jmo buddying me along with the avoidance glass mentioned. He's my second suspect.-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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Ok, Varsoon has now picked up on the post where Vote Me said he'd never vote for Varsooon. Either Varsoon is tossing suspicion away from that conclusion so mafia doesn't figure it out, or my guess was wrong. We might see soon.
Why am I right for not trusting you Varsoon? That doesn't make much sense. That's not something players usually come out and say.-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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In post 85, jmo16mla wrote:
Wagon? He/she had one vote.In post 82, Varsoon wrote:
It'd be nice if you could explain your vote rather than hoping on a wagon with a naked vote.
VOTE: Jmo16mla
Explain your vote.
This still doesn't explain why you voted Glass. You've been repeatedly asked why you originally voted glass. Yet, you never did.
Also, why are people being little jackasses? Pressuring until an answer is given, is not being a jackass.-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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That on Flench I did find suspicious, but I was wanting to see if someone else did as well. I don't want to tunnel someone for something that isn't suspicious at all. Flench says one more person is sufficient to make him explain. Dr. Cherry Pepper asks him to explain. He says nope, confirmed town understood. Flench is shifting the entire game onto one player's shoulders which is very very bad. I had a game like that where I was the confirmed town (off-site). It wasn't easy at all and derailed some from legitimately scum hunting.
I did also miss 104. My apologies.-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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I am agreeing with all the suspicion towards Varsoon right now. However, I think there's a possibility Varsoon is trying to draw a bit of scum attention to himself deliberately. I'd explain why, but that would totally ruin what he's trying to do. The hints are there suggesting why Varsoon is doing this. If only town figures this out, the better we are though. Otherwise, we can be near certain that Varsoon will die tonight.
I also do not like a meta based argument, but I always hear everything out. What is Saki's town meta and why is this different?-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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Flench, Pasch isn't the only town in the game. You should post your thoughts so all of us can see them. Also, why do you suppose that your post will provide more evidence for jmo to go after? If your reasoning is sound, then it shouldn't provide any additional evidence at all.In post 199, Flench wrote:OK I just spent forty minutes writing an extremely disjointed post that tries to explain whatever it is jmo wants to know.
It is very long and full of quotes that are probably messed up.
It probably won't help him understand at all but will I am sure will be more evidence for jmo to go after in this really annoying form of pressure that I see no end to.
I will post it at the request of Pasche.
Also, you're reacting to pressure "that you see no end to". Why wouldn't the pressure end of the questions are answered appropropriately?
This seems like a scum motivated post. I don't want to hunt unless town makes me hunt and this pressure is unbearable.-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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In post 141, Flench wrote:
I don't understand this.In post 140, jmo16mla wrote: Flench, who's scum? you've been prancing around and not voting.
I mentioned who I thought was scummy in post 118.
I voted for Saki a long time ago and he has since disappeared. I don't think it's a good policy to remove my vote on someone who goes silent.
I have other leads and will make them known when I get more information.
Oriole, this post as well should be explained. Post 118 doesn't give a clear indication of who he thinks scum is. I'd guess he meant 116 but he's being a stubborn git and not confirming anything. That's what we've meant all along, just for Flench to be clear as to who he FoSes and the vote when he thinks someone is scum.
Instead, we get posts like 49 and 199 which both seem to be clear scummy posts to me.
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@Flench,
In post 199, Flench wrote:OK I just spent forty minutes writing an extremely disjointed post that tries to explain whatever it is jmo wants to know.
It is very long and full of quotes that are probably messed up.
It probably won't help him understand at all but will I am sure will be more evidence for jmo to go after in this really annoying form of pressure that I see no end to.
I will post it at the request of Pasche.In post 202, Flench wrote:
1. At this point he is the only town in the game that I know of, if you jmo and cherry are scum and are intentionally leading the convo this way then I would like a town to give his thoughts. I thought my reasoning was sound in my previous posts, why should that stop him or you? Everything in this long post has already been said, if you go back and read you should be able to understand everything.In post 201, Titus wrote: Flench, Pasch isn't the only town in the game. You should post your thoughts so all of us can see them. Also, why do you suppose that your post will provide more evidence for jmo to go after? If your reasoning is sound, then it shouldn't provide any additional evidence at all.
Also, you're reacting to pressure "that you see no end to". Why wouldn't the pressure end of the questions are answered appropropriately?
This seems like a scum motivated post. I don't want to hunt unless town makes me hunt and this pressure is unbearable.
2. I don't see jmo ever saying that I answered his questions appropriately.
3. What?
1. Paschendale is the only confirmed town, yet it's implausible to argue he's the only town in the game. You should want the rest of the town to understand you, and thus clarify if there are questions. The rest of your reply makes no intelligible sense on point 1.
2. Well that's because you haven't. Answer them honestly and the pressure diminishes.
3. Your posts seem scum motivated. You seem not to have any desire to scumhunt or be bound to your FoSes here. You say one thing (when someone else asks for clarification, I'll clarify) and do another (wait for Pasche to be confused). Basically, any question that doesn't come from Pasche, you are showing great reluctance to answer.-
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I really don't like meta arguments based off one game. My first game on this site, I was deliberately much more sheepy than I am normally until I found out the rules. I'm not saying y'all are wrong on Saki just that argument is terribly unpersuasive to me. I did think Saki was looking for tells with the whole "town points for whoever guesses my avatar". The problem is that was a little obvious.
@ Saki, Post 74 I answered the question about why I hesitate to get on bandwagons.
I generally take everything a player does seriously. Generally, players who take things seriously are actually most likely to be the town players rather than scum. Scum will dismiss gambits and other early forms of scum hunting as jokes quite frequently IMO.@Dr. Pepper/Glass, I fear the point of no return due to the value Saki provides if s/he is town. If Saki's town, that's a player unafraid to risk their own hide to try and catch scum. That's not someone we want strung up so early. Suspicious =/= scummy. I know I am suspicious of those with play styles different than my own. I try to only vote those who are RVS or who I am convinced are scum.-
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Why didn't you just say that Flench? Making us jump through hoops to get opinions isn't helpful.
Who are your scum suspects now? Do you have any questions for us that would help you determine scum? Any players (besides the child) that you see as auto town?
I don't think you missed anything from Paschendale.-
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FoSing people for the first legitimate scum hunting would look really bad. Scum care just as much about discrediting legitimate scumhunting as they do getting other suspects. Discrediting scumhunters allows for scum to stay undetected. It's situationally dependent.Flench in 223
Why would a mafia dismiss gambits and scum hunting as a joke? Wouldn't he want to cast suspicion on any non-mafia person that he could?
Anyway, enough theory. I'm starting to see almost factions occurring. Oriole, where do you stand? Who are your suspects?-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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My reasons for voting FlenchIn post 228, Paschendale wrote:Everyone who is voting for someone that no one else is voting for, supply some reasons.
1) The Slip in 39
2) Post 199 - Seems pretty clearly written from a scum perspective, insulting his own opinions, saying he probably won't help etc.
3) His general behavior that Paschendale is the only town to clarify things for
4) His backtracking on clarifying who his scum suspects were when Cherry Dr. Pepper asked him to clarify.
5) A generally unhelpful demeanor towards the group and scumhunting in general (ex: prefers to talk theory rather than ask questions).-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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I think Saki's trying to say that CherryPepper's readlist is information over analysis. I'm not certain though. It seems like he's saying it's a wall without substance. That is a scum tell. Having actual new information, with unique analysis, is not a scum tell. Maybe Saki should take another pass at trying to explain the CherryDr.Pepper vote.
Hydras talking to each other is a major benefit if town, but a major hindrance if scum. That's because both heads can get together and stop each other from being stupid. I do believe they are allowed to talk to each other in a qt thread. I do think Varsoon should have his eye kept on in case I am wrong but I think he's town.-
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Hydra heads are just as much of a bonus as they are a drawback. It depends on the circumstances. I understand valuing any scumslip harder because they are hydras, but if they are town, that means we have an extra person solving the case with us.
I don't like the leap to discrediting here. Observing something might not mean the person is right or has all the answers yet. While I don't agree with Saki necessarily, I'm not certain he's wrong either.
Saki, take a stab at Oriole and Flench please. What do their behaviors tell you?-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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1. We've gone over that. I think it was. Some do. Some don't.
2. Wow. Another refusal and claim that others will do the work. Again, this thought is my opinion.
3. I never said you didn't want his opinion. My gripe here is that his opinion seemed to be the only one you listened to.
4. Post 170 is where CherryDr.Pepper raised his hand. It's clear that CherryDr.Pepper was indeed confused and wanted you to elaborate. The fact he said "*raises hand*" rather than I'm confused is rather nitpicky and farcial. I doubt you didn't understand CherryDr.Pepper was confused. Instead, you skipped over that anyway.
5. Missing something doesn't equal a slip. When someone brought that to my attention, I retracted my belief that no one had attempted to answer Saki's avatar question.
Care to give your opinions on our hydras Flench? Is there anyone besides Paschendale who you think is town?-
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It's farcial to believe that could have been interpreted any other way. That's why I'm taking issue with Flench's ignoring of it and instead waiting for Pasch. He was basically ignoring everyone but Pasch, putting the game on his shoulders. Now that Pasch has called Flench out on that, maybe the behavior will change. We'll see.In post 247, CherryDrPepper wrote:Re: The *raises hand* thing.
Your post said that if someone else wanted an explanation then you would say it, my *raises hand* post implied that i was that "someone else"
-Sakura Hana-
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@Saki, your vote should be on the person who is most likely scum, not the person who you think you can convince us is scum. You shouldn't be worried about "convincing us" but just giving information right now. Plus, you want to prioritize a hydra solely because they are a hydra at this point. I hate policy lynches.-
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Totally ignoring convincing us wasn't the point. Yet, your vote should be on who the scummiest is. I find it odd that you are pushing a lynch on someone who appears to be wanting to draw attention to himself. Varsoon has pulled a lot of "OMG obv scum" moves right off the bat. Why? This is either ridiculously poor scum play or town trying to draw attention. I think I know why Varsoon is doing that. If I'm right, it might backfire... hard, because the play is too obvious.
I don't like your focus on convincing us. Your focus should be on finding the truth, which means availing yourself of the possibility that you are indeed wrong. You also demonstrate a sense of paranoia that indicates not agreeing with you = ignoring you. That's hardly the case.-
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Titus She/herMoon WalkerShe/her
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You're certain CherryDr.Pepper is scum due to a necroargument. That is very weak. I get the additional scrutiny because he's a hydra but I can't go that far. I'm not certain CherryDr.Pepper is town. I don't think readlists are that obvious to detect town versus scum though either. Can you find me a readlist of Cherry's that seems to be faked or somehow otherwise scummy? (That seems to split the baby here. If CherryDr.Pepper is certain that scum can be caught in readlists, he wouldn't mind an effort by someone to try.).
I know not everyone is active as me Saki but I find it odd that you utterly dismiss the possibility that a prod dodge can be scummy, especially when you were just complaining how people dismiss your arguments out of hand.-
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I like how active this thread got while I was out for a few hours. Lots to read and comment on.
@Varsoon, what exactly is the "too town" argument? If you've got any questions, feel free to ask them.
@Stubbs, I actually don't agree on the Saki townread. It should be pretty clear from the context that I've wanted more evidence and words from Saki before being willing to lynch him. I've seen that, and I think he's defenses are much more like scum defenses. Thanks for putting words in my mouth. Your other leaning town read is also someone who agrees with Saki being town. Of course, then there is Saki. If Saki is scum, this almost reads like a buddy's defense here.
@Oriole, The difference between Varsoon is Varsoon is seeking the attention. Saki is not. Varsoon has been deliberate in his actions and the behaviors we see as scummy. Saki's behaviors feel more like slips and forcing scum reads. There's a difference between actively drawing attention and suspicion onto yourself and scum play. Varsoon's seems to be the former. Saki's appears to be the latter.-
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In 219, I hadn't said you were scum but I was starting to suspect that you were. I still think Flench is more likely scum than you, so my vote stays on him but if I'm needed to hammer you I will.
Saki, your behaviors (beyond the town points for guessing your AV) seem to be more reactionary than aggressive. For instance, Varsoon's meta conflicts were put there deliberately. You seem to be more OMGUSing, tunnelling and being wishy washy. For instance, you complain people ignore you but you let jmo go right on ignoring you. You claim your vote was on Varsoon because he was the most scummy but then say you didn't mean it when pressured. Varsoon's scummy behaviors seem to be independent of pressure and done whenever we quick focusing on Varsoon. Varsoon has also not tunnelled and seems to be putting forth much more analysis on players who haven't FoSed him at all.-
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I'm seeing Pasch and Cherry disagreeing on Flench and Stubbs. There are far too many neutrals on the list for my liking though in Cherry's to determine the full extent of their disagreement or agreement. There seems to be enough here for me to believe that Cherry isn't just sheeping the innocent child though.-
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This post is a perfect example of why you are scummy Saki. You are making conflicting points within the same post. You're saying that you want us to listen to you but you also say some of your posts were meant as a joke.
It's not pressure/without pressure totally. It's whether the scummy behavior seems part of an overarching plan. Yours does not seem to be. The whole reaction fishing with Varsoon would have meant more if you had actually kept your vote on Varsoon long enough to gather his reaction. The claim just doesn't pass the smell test to me.
Town points for guessing your AV was one of the more towny things you did if you meant that seriously. I cannot see why you want me to take that as a joke.
When I look at the reads, I'm looking for the most part at the categories Dr. Pepper and Pasch selected. Their conclusions are alarmingly similar and there's a whole lot of nulls. Occasionally their end results do diverge somewhat so I'm not certain Cherry is sheeping Pasch. I think Cherry's thinking for himself at the moment just because the reasons where Cherry agrees with Pasch seem to have a little meat on their bones.-
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@Saki,
Again, you seem to want to have your early posts go two ways. 1) Your early posts were a joke. 2) They were an attempt to spark discussion. To me, both of those statements cannot be true. If players treat your statements as jokes, there will be no controlled chaos type discussion.
Post 210 just says to me "Hey, if you find something scummy, it was reaction fishing". Yet, your vote on Varsoon hardly seems like reaction fishing since you unvoted him before he even replied. Voting someone just to get someone else interested? In what? This seems more like you wanted Cherry to respond so you could attack him. There's a slim chance you are really hydra paranoid but it just doesn't make sense.
JMO seems like a null read on Pasch's list despite how much he hates nulls. I brought up my own opinion on what CherryDr.Pepper said regarding his reads because I'm doing my own scumhunting. CherryDr.Pepper and Pasch seem to mention almost the exact same behavior in their reads. Occasionally, they'll intepret the behavior differently but they seem similar enough. I don't think it is a sheep though.
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I take the lurkers on a player by player basis. Vote Me, for instance, is the most likely town of the lurkers due to his strong stances before he started lurking due to his V/LA.
The best way to pressure a player is very player specific IMO. I wouldn't pressure you the same way I'd pressure Saki for instance. Almost universally though, the best pressure is one the player doesn't see coming.
I generally look for language based tells, logicial inconsistencies and tunnelling when looking for scum. When looking for town, I look for evidence of aggressive questioning, no fear of being lynched and logical thinking in the actions the players take. Trolls are particularly hard for me to analyze because they don't fit nicely into my boxes.
Supposing I've never played with a player, the person starts as a null. If I respect a player's skill, I generally start them as a little more suspicious. If I feel like the player is not exactly coherent, I'll start them a little more as town. Regardless, I try not to vote a player until they give me a scumtell in one form or the other unless I know I'm standing in the way of a lynch and the town needs information.
"Regarding Saki, do you think 'the slot' is scum/why so?" Rephrase this please.-
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Yes, I do feel Saki is currently scum. He seems to contradict himself very frequently in his posts. Since the start of the game, he seems to have wanted to lynch CherryDr.Pepper but I can't see why. I'm not certain CherryDr.Pepper is town, but I don't get the laser focus. He also seems to not do well under pressure and has an almost why me attitude about his posts. He doesn't seem to be exhibiting tactics that would gain information over the long term, despite his claims to the contrary. Your questions seem to definitely lead the group to more information. Saki also seems to not like it when questions don't narrowly focus around the points he wants to make.
Now, I have some questions for you, most of them are basically the same questions you asked me, but I am curious.
1) About how many games have you played? Have you ever played on other mafia sites?
2) What do you look for when determining alignment?
3) Do you start players off as null/scum or something else?
4) When if ever do you find it appropriate to speculate as to the setup?
5) What do you think of Oriole?
6) What do you think of our lurkers? Do any of them stand out?
7) Do you have a standard method of pressuring players?-
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