Realistic Mafia - Game Over

[Dasquian]

Vote: Superfly

.

And that's all I have to say about that.

[Dasquian]

Oh, and I meant to post my standard opening blurb before everything gets going: I will always aim to get scum, but lurking sucks and is scummy and so I won't let lurkers go unpressured or unnoticed for long. I really don't want to have to lurker-hunt though so if everyone could oblige by not lurking, that'd be awesome

[Dasquian]

Well, it's good to see the scum-hunting is fully underway then huh

Dasquian

[Dasquian]

I want to hear Superfly's reaction to this bandwagon before we discuss why it's there.

My second vote on Superfly, as early as it was, was

not

random.

[Dasquian]

If we can fit in more than one good lynch, we definitely should. But, as Singing Librarian said, crapshooting as quick as we can because we can is a really poor idea.

Let's aim to get one good lynch, then see how much time we have left and what the situation is. It may be that by then, we have another "let's get 'em" suspect in the wings.

Right now Superfly is doing himself

no

favours whatsoever. He fully deserves the votes he has and probably more.

[Dasquian]

I honestly thought more than 2 days had passed. My bad. 6 pages of posts, lots of talk about Superfly, and no Superfly. I got my sense of time distorted. :/

I'm still sticking to my guns though: I'm not advocating a quicklynch and I want to hear what he has to say about his bandwagon. With 12 to lynch, we can afford to be a bit more vote-happy, though.

[Dasquian]

All I want to do is establish some pre-lynch information that a lynch will help to enlighten us, and not just needlessly risk a townie. Once we set that up, a lynch would be town benificial as far as I see, and Superfly is as good as anyone at this point.

I disagree, on the basis that, ideally, any moment now Superfly should be posting. There's no need to lay a page 1 case against Superfly out in all its glorious detail before he gets to the thread. Let's see what he has to say for himself first.

[Dasquian]

Superfly doesn't deserve votes for not posting, I'm not calling anyone out as a lurker yet. He deserves votes because he is the vote-leader, with non-random votes on him, and is yet to post. With 12 to lynch, why not turn up the heat a little?

Interesting that you assume Primate

randomly

chose Superfly. You almost seem too keen to make sure you believe he doesn't have any actual dirt.

[Dasquian]

The bandwagon on Superfly does have a lot of unanswered questions about it. Those answers won't be forthcoming til Superfly posts, though, and it's unfortunate that he's turned out to be late to the table

Cyberbob: don't put words into my mouth, I'm not intending to get an earlier appearance out of Superfly by encouraging more votes on him. I am, however, hoping to get more pressure on him when he does turn up and I am also hoping to avoid another lynch-shy game like Lost Boys was.

12 to lynch people! Feel free to bandwagon!

[Dasquian]

Superfly has posted, and I actually kinda liked his post. No (super) flies on him, yet.

Unvote: Superfly

. I figured that Primate didn't have anything on him, but a full-strength bandwagon at this stage of the game can really throw scum for six, and it's worth doing something like that to see if anyone behaves particularly oddly.

Dasquian, the point is if Primate would have chose to vote Sensfan or myself, we would have gotten the same responses because we hadn't posted by that point. Meaning you saying we should vote Superfly because he hasn't made a post yet is stupid.

Again, I wanted to see how people would respond to a bandwagon - whether anyone would be too eager, or whether people would be too defensive. If Superfly ever does die, these first few pages will be worth a revisit, too.

Surye certainly gets my attention now for opposing the whole Superfly bandwagon while Primate and myself were being ambiguous, and laying into him now he's back because he said the l-word. Is this an attempt to buy into lurker hate? Because although I appreciate the sentiment, I agree with those who have said he was just AFK, not lurking. Very different thing.

Vote Surye

[Dasquian]

Unvote Surye

- the opening blurb all but spells out that the mayor exists and is a pro-town role in the game, and here he is claiming it with Nab backing up one of his investigation results. No reason to disbelieve him now.

Both BM and Cyberbob's investigation results are incriminating, BM's moreso, so I can't see me not voting one of them today. No vote right now, but probably in my next post after a quick reread of the thread.

Also:

Facepalm. Superfly, keep those kind of outs secret until one of them has to actually claim.

It concerns me how happy you are to conceal information from others.

Didn't like this at all. Encouraging townies not to spell out excuses that a mafia member on the spot genuinely might not think of, then get lynched for, is good pro-town play! Sure, sometimes it's obvious, but sometimes it's not and smart townies don't do the hard work for scum.

[Dasquian]

Erm, i kinda already claimed.

OK.

Also:

Facepalm. Superfly, keep those kind of outs secret until one of them has to actually claim.

It seems liek Armlx is trying too hard to attack people for doing something that is pretty natural impulse. Ive had it in another game, and frankly, its nothing short of opportunism in my eyes.

I totally disagree - it's a natural impulse that doesn't help town, so warning townies off being flappy-jawed is a generally good idea. I didn't think armlx was "trying too hard" at all.

BM

Dasquian

[Dasquian]

Yay for butchered quotes

[Dasquian]

What the hell - you vig-killed Sarcastro on N0?

Also, Cyberbob: put yourself in our shoes. You've got a cop-dirty on you, and you are giving us nothing to explain that away. If it's your word against the cop's, sorry, I'm going with the cop for now.

No vote yet since BM is claiming SK apparently.

[Dasquian]

I would strongly recommend against a mass-sharing of night-actions at this stage, given that the power-roles (whatever they are) probably used their abilities and the more people who claim not to have done something like that, the easier it'll be for scum to hit them.

[Dasquian]

I recommend that we all go to BM's house and pick up guns. I also recommend that we do this

together

and keep an eye on each other as we do it. I also recommend BM isn't totally stripped of guns since, if he's a vig, he's probably more competent at using them than the rest of us.

Of course, same goes if he's scum or a SK :/

Comments? I won't be sending a ???? action in yet.

[Dasquian]

What the hell - you vig-killed Sarcastro on N0?

Umm yeh. Who wouldn't!?

So, you have (had?) a collection of guns at your house and you killed Sarcastro N0. Why, exactly, should we believe that you're a vig and not just a garden variety goon?

Vote BM

[Dasquian]

I had nfi what I was getting into with this game.

Vote holds until we've had a search of Cyberbob's place, but I'm using my ???? action to get in on the BM-looting action.

[Dasquian]

I went to BM's house like I said I would, intending to leave one there and redistribute the ones I brought back. There were no guns there :/

Vote: Cyberbob

. His claim of being vanilla directly contradicts cop evidence; if the evidence is bad then tonight, Surye should tell everyone he comes into contact with who gave him that evidence, and if he's still alive, tell the thread tomorrow.

I think we should also lynch BM today. There is nothing to prove that he's actually a vigilante. He's already killed N0 and, predictably, got a townie, and I really don't approve of N0 vig-kills. He had a crapload of guns, and now he doesn't, so he's not even worth keeping around as a vigilante unless we decide to give him some back. Thoughts?

[Dasquian]

I should add: I'm in favour of searching Cyberbob's place prior to his lynch, but it's taking too long for people to organise IMO. People should just go and do it.

[Dasquian]

Uck,

Unvote BM, vote Cyberbob

- that's L-2.

[Dasquian]

I still think lynching BM is a good idea:

- He's no longer a vig, if he ever was one (no guns anymore!)
- Incriminating cop result (intrigued as to what flavour gives a vig so many different firearms)
- He killed N0, not pro-town vig behaviour
- There were only 2 night-kills last night and the mod has told us there are 2 mafia groups. See above - he has claimed one of them.
- Check out his page 1 post:

Clearly the scum are awesome, as they offed the 2 greatest threats to my personal enjoyment of the game.

Come on guys, this is a no-brainer.

Vote: Battle Mage

(I'm assuming that since Cyberbob is lynched, the votes are reset?)

[Dasquian]

Sure, I get that a mafia kill could've been blocked while a vig kill wasn't, making the numbers add up.

What about the quote though? If you're a vig, why would you imply your kill was a scum kill? It really looks to me like he was all for playing along with the "I have no idea who killed Sarcastro but I'm glad they did" line until he was forced to make the only claim he possibly could've made.

[Dasquian]

What about the quote though? If you're a vig, why would you imply your kill was a scum kill? It really looks to me like he was all for playing along with the "I have no idea who killed Sarcastro but I'm glad they did" line until he was forced to make the only claim he possibly could've made.

Honest question: Should a vig be claiming on page 1?

And what do you think he would gain from taking credit for the N0 kill, when he could have simply let it slide?

Sure, I don't think he should be claiming straight away, or giving away any hints. But what he did say seemed to be an

anti-claim

, if he really was the vig. Actually pinning that death to the mafia if he knew he did it himself is a really contradictory thing to say.

OTOH it makes sense for him to NK Sacrastro as scum because he doesn't like him, gloat about it, then back-peddle and claim vig when guns are found in his house.

[Dasquian]

I didn't see that the N0 death scene had finally been posted, with information about the means of the two deaths. There's a good chance I wasn't the only one - another count against BM. Let me list it out for everyone again:

- Has a load of guns at his house
- Excuses this by being a vigilante, but chose to kill N0
- Also congratulated

scum

for this kill on page 1, before he knew he was going to get implicated when Surye claimed
- Kill subsequently counter-claimed by Primate
- Guns are inconsistent with Sarcastro's flesh wounds caused by a knife

This is really, really straightforward. We lynch Battle Mage now.

Confirm vote: Battle Mage

[Dasquian]

I don't see a compelling reason why a scum BM would claim a kill that he didn't actually do, knowing that there's someone out there who might be able to counterclaim him. I'm pretty much certain there's something else going on here.

This is a reasonable statement. Frankly I'm mystified as to why pro-town BM would kill Sarcastro N0

at all

, let alone claim to do it. However, if he was part of the scum-group which kill Sarcastro, he could happily claim the kill as a vig (hence my earlier attention to the lack of a second mafia kill if Sarcastro's death was at the hands of vig-BM).

Your counter-claim throws a spanner in the works, for sure.

[Dasquian]

OK. Waiting on BM and taking it from there.

[Dasquian]

Is anyone seriously not going to lynch Battle Mage now?

[Dasquian]

oh and btw, sowwy Primate. I genuinely thought you were scum. 0.o

I'm calling Shenanigans. With Primate's death and subsequently proven credentials, we now know that Sarcastro died in Primate's house, and the body dumped.

There is no way BM could've gone to Sarcastro's house, searched for him, found him alive and outside, killed him,

and then put the body in Sarcastro's house

for Sarcastro to find. The only way BM could be telling the truth is if he found Sarcastro's corpse outside and shanked him, not realising he was already a stiffy.

[Dasquian]

Er, for

Primate

to find.

[Dasquian]

Did you see BM run through the front door and slice up Sarc?

How do you square that with BM's account of finding Sarc outside when he killed him?

[Dasquian]

Did you see BM run through the front door and slice up Sarc?

[Dasquian]

No, i was in the kitchen, but i got hit by the trap..Prim was up stairs I was in the kitchen and BM can kill people with his KNIFE...Sounds like he fucking killed sarc to me.

Ok, fine, I just wanted to clear up exactly what you did and didn't see, as you tagged that assumption onto the end of your witness account.

BM, comments? Did you actually kill Sarcastro in a house? If not, what the hell do

you

think is going on? If so, why the lies, man, why the lies?

[Dasquian]

I don't like ABR's new-found bully-boy tactics one bit :/

Ending the day doesn't seem to be a brilliant plan to me, either. Why don't we, at the very least, use the time to rout and possibly lynch some lurkers? I don't think we should do a cull of lurkers but we've already used this day really well (assuming we

have

lynched two scum), so it's not like we have to "waste" our lynch or time if we want to chase people trying to stay under the radar.

In that vein... who is being quiet? muffinhead hasn't posted a lot of substance or recently, and neither has Awesome Pants (although he has posted recently). What do you two think we should do next?

[Dasquian]

Why? Why deprive ourselves of a week of talking? Even if we don't lynch anyone (and to be honest, we probably shouldn't), the day is the town's opportunity to get stuff done not under the cover of darkness.

[Dasquian]

What the hell? A FOS for not wanting to cut the day short? Or a FOS for calling you out of holding people to ransom?

[Dasquian]

Hey, I'm making no apologies for changing my mind around then - particularly as I changed it from "BM possibly is a vig" to "wait a minute, he's a clearly a psycho".

*setup speculation begins*
And I stand by the assertation that

if Battle Mage was a pro-town vig

he should have been alllowed to keep a gun. That was on the assumption that killing roles would be made different from non-killing roles in more ways than just ownership of a weapon: I was assuming the mod would put in the chance for vanilla townies to miss, or forget to turn the safety off, or something.
*setup speculation ends*

Once again, I don't like day-time vigilante justice threats. If you want to vote me for expressing my opinion, be my guest. If you want to try to rally the town into a lynch, I won't be happy, but that's the game. But do you really think you're helping the town by taking up a one man, one vote, one bullet stance? I don't.

[Dasquian]

What's the vote-count on ending the day? I still don't think it's a great idea on principle but Nab raises a fair point that if we don't have any goals (ie, plans to lynch) for the end of the day, it'll be a self-fulfilling prophecy and nothing will get done.

Re: skitzer's trip. Yeah, the logic is broken, and skitzer has admitted it too. Fact is though that either skitzer is telling the truth, or he's not and isn't going to back up on his story. Is it worth a bunch of people taking a quick trip to his house to verify that the bedroom door is, at least, locked?

[Dasquian]

Well, if he got caught lying and was off doing something completely different, there's a very good chance a search of his house will prove it when his bedroom door is unlocked, no? It seems stupid to go down this line of accusation and do nothing to resolve it.

I volunteer to go to skitzer's house and see if his bedroom door is locked with two other people - ideally Surye and someone of Surye's choosing.

[Dasquian]

So you all believe his door is locked... just that he might have done so for sinister reasons?

[Dasquian]

Yeah, OK, this is a good point. No house search for me then please.

[Dasquian]

He definitely knew that he'd be noticed, because he warned us that he might be disappearing to lock his door.

FOS: Hjallti, Natirasha

- he might've been doing something untoward but you two seem far too keen to assume he must've been. I still think there's a large possibility he really did think he was doing something useful/self-protective.

[Dasquian]

Done that reread yet? It would be great to have your serious comments on this day before it's over.

[Dasquian]

sykedoc, what alignments do you think Cyberbob and Battle Mage will show up as, and why?

[Dasquian]

Checking in - busy night :/

I'm on board with Hjallti's motion, but I can't help feel it's a little loop-holey. Still, if the mod allows it, we should definitely do it.

armlx & Natirisha - it seems obvious to me that armlx sent a night choice something along the lines of "I hide in my house so it looks like nobody is in", and Natirisha did indeed investigate him. With Surye and armlx both confirming the latter, that's definitely true, and with the timing of armlx's info the former is almost certainly true too.

Waiting to see how the ABR & Khlevastor thing plays out, obviously

something

happened there last night which I assume we'll find out in due course.

[Dasquian]

ABR: what the hell, dude?

Day-vigging a cop is a serious fuckup and I am not in the least bit sorry ABR has had his guns revoked, especially given I was getting the vigilante justice threats yesterday just for questioning him.

The main reason I'm not going to drop a vote right now (beyond not knowing for sure what the vote-count / number to lynch is) is that it seems like any scum who would want to survive longer than five minutes wouldn't do something this stupid, particularly after

another scum did exactly the same thing the day before

. The mind boggles :/

ABR, please could you go into more detail about what happened at your house last night. Could anyone else who was there give their side of the story too?

I'm leaning towards a policy lynch all the same.

[Dasquian]

I don't like the assumptions-taken-as-fact that ABR is scum, or which scum he was part of. It does seem like a pretty safe assumption that someone who dayvig's a cop, then self-hammers before being dayvigged himself is scum, but having established that, surely he's out to confuse? I wouldn't want to make any assumptions based on anything ABR said in his last few pages.

Let's just remember that until the mod tells us who he was, we don't know anything for sure.

Need to do a reread as far as a vote is concerned; I find Hjallti's and armlx's posts mildly worthy of mention but not even a FOS. armlx for making a list that doesn't contrast with mine very well (I have SL as being reasonably pro-town, and think he's been a little over-zealous in trusting people), and Hjallti for following it so readily, as Awesome Pants stated.

[Dasquian]

I don't buy the argument that the mod is lying to us. It sounds like scum trying to sow confusion by getting extra leverage out of what should be our solid information.

FOS: DrippingGoofball

[Dasquian]

Bzzt. This isn't ad hominem at all; I'm FOSing you for what you're doing, not who you are.

Why would I pick on a dead townie, Dasquian, to sow confusion?

As the only truly reliable information in the game, the town uses the alignments of those who are dead to move forwards and identify scum. You are proposing that we cannot do that, even though the mod has told us skitzer was a townie.

The implications of this are obvious: that any case that involves using the now-known alignment of skitzer to implicate or clear someone, you can now say "but that's assuming we

really can

trust skitzer to be town!" to undermine. If you seed the idea well enough that we can't trust the mod, you get a paranoid town making stupid choices, refusing to believe the evidence the mod is given it.

Still, your post gives me one good lead - to see if there's anything skitzer said or did that you'd not want associated with a known townie.

[Dasquian]

*one quick glance at DGB and skitzer's posts later*

Well, that was fruitless. Point stands, I still think putting the mod's info into doubt without good reason is scummy. You asked for opinions, that's mine.

[Dasquian]

Because the corruption is in character, and the mod isn't.

Mods providing inaccurate information is very very rare, IMO. It's also generally a very poor idea; not showing aligns on death is one thing, actively lying to your players is a very different one and one most mods won't touch with a barge pole. We're well into Bastard Mod territory by then.

[Dasquian]

Bah! Go Corsica!

[Dasquian]

I enjoyed this game. Though, damnit DGB! There's nothing more annoying as scum than getting taken out the game for the wrong reasons

[Dasquian]

Yeah, I thought that too. Poor show, really, but it was a poetic end anyway