Realistic Mafia - Game Over

[Hjallti]

I would guess ABR belongs to the Corsican syndicate, since he wouldn't gain anything with a selfhammer as last standing Sicilian: the game would be over for him and his partners at that point.

If amrlx is right it seems we have to find three other mafiosi and (at least) one SK from the list DGB, Crub, Awesome Pants, armlx*, Singing Librarian, Sensfan; with added Dasquian and Sykedoc.

*changing the viewpoint

The main advantage about the setup is that we can lynch both BM-partners and ABR-partners today.

mod:

Can we assume at this point

15 alive it takes 8 to lynch

?

[Awesome Pants]

It's not very protown to rule out the people armlx "trusts" if you consider him to possibly be scum...

PS: Surye, any thoughts at all on my post 1073?

[Crub]

1. Why are NabNab and GW cleared?
2. Why couldn't a cop also be a SK?
3. Given that cop's can choose (I assume) how much and what get's reported to the mayor why are people assuming just because 1 investigation "check's out" that cop is cleared. ie. Isn't it entirely possible that dirty cop(s) working for one group of mafioso outed mafioso's that they aren't working for?

[Hjallti]

Awesome, I started with 'If amrlx is right....' to indicate that I was not intending to follow that lead to much, although I agree that Surye is safe, for instance.

But yeah, Awesome, It seems my logic was flawed there a bit, since I made an exception for armlx and myself, and not for the other players.... I meant to say that we seem to need to find some 4 scummies, and if we could reduce it like amrlx did, it would be a great start. Of course reducing it the way ABR did is even better: if you point out that you are scum yourself, a pity a cop died for it.

And in addition to Crub's questions:

Can we know that a cop did only one investigation? How much can he investigate?

I also don't understand that people are insisting that there are only 4 cops or so... It could be that some cops decided to keep quiet a bit. I actually would consider that pro-town: a backup-squad....

I also consider the unforced cop-claims rather bad for town. It doesn't even make sense to claim it is better for town. If town can vig with more than one why can't mafia? Corsican mafia could still choose to kill 3 people during one night, isn't it? I would expect them to do so, if it would wrap the game up... it even could happen during the day...

[Dasquian]

I don't like the assumptions-taken-as-fact that ABR is scum, or which scum he was part of. It does seem like a pretty safe assumption that someone who dayvig's a cop, then self-hammers before being dayvigged himself is scum, but having established that, surely he's out to confuse? I wouldn't want to make any assumptions based on anything ABR said in his last few pages.

Let's just remember that until the mod tells us who he was, we don't know anything for sure.

Need to do a reread as far as a vote is concerned; I find Hjallti's and armlx's posts mildly worthy of mention but not even a FOS. armlx for making a list that doesn't contrast with mine very well (I have SL as being reasonably pro-town, and think he's been a little over-zealous in trusting people), and Hjallti for following it so readily, as Awesome Pants stated.

[DrippingGoofball]

Folks something doesn't add up. I followed skitzer, who left his home at night and tried to break into sideney's house. After he left sideney's house, I heard a shot in the street.

Don't believe everything you read in the paper, alignment-wise.

*reminder*

The above has not been yet addressed.

[DrippingGoofball]

Skitzer was a revealed "townie" upon death. What was he doing trying to break into sideney's house?

I think we cannot trust the reveals 100% - opinions?

[Dasquian]

I don't buy the argument that the mod is lying to us. It sounds like scum trying to sow confusion by getting extra leverage out of what should be our solid information.

FOS: DrippingGoofball

[DrippingGoofball]

Why would I pick on a dead townie, Dasquian, to sow confusion?

FOS: Dasquian

for stopping the discussion with an

ad hom

.

[Dasquian]

Bzzt. This isn't ad hominem at all; I'm FOSing you for what you're doing, not who you are.

Why would I pick on a dead townie, Dasquian, to sow confusion?

As the only truly reliable information in the game, the town uses the alignments of those who are dead to move forwards and identify scum. You are proposing that we cannot do that, even though the mod has told us skitzer was a townie.

The implications of this are obvious: that any case that involves using the now-known alignment of skitzer to implicate or clear someone, you can now say "but that's assuming we

really can

trust skitzer to be town!" to undermine. If you seed the idea well enough that we can't trust the mod, you get a paranoid town making stupid choices, refusing to believe the evidence the mod is given it.

Still, your post gives me one good lead - to see if there's anything skitzer said or did that you'd not want associated with a known townie.

[Dasquian]

*one quick glance at DGB and skitzer's posts later*

Well, that was fruitless. Point stands, I still think putting the mod's info into doubt without good reason is scummy. You asked for opinions, that's mine.

[DrippingGoofball]

I agree, skitzer was pretty low on the sus list.

In Meadow of Sorrows Mafia, we had one anti-town role whose ability was to muck up the reveals. I don't remember if it worked like a bus driver, switching two roles, or if they were made up, but I recall at the end pushing for the lynch of Mason... or some role that was nearly confirmed... I forget.

Since this game is one where "corruption" is an underlying theme, why do you reject the possibility?

[Dasquian]

Because the corruption is in character, and the mod isn't.

Mods providing inaccurate information is very very rare, IMO. It's also generally a very poor idea; not showing aligns on death is one thing, actively lying to your players is a very different one and one most mods won't touch with a barge pole. We're well into Bastard Mod territory by then.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Suddenly, DrippingGoofBall grabs his gun and riddles holes in Dasquian. Dasquian, suprised, drops dead on the pavement. The town grabs DrippingGoofBall, take his guns and bind him on a chair to prevent further killing

Dasquian, a Corsican goon, killed during Day 2

[PJ.]

Shit why does everyone have a gun but me?

[Celebloki]

oh lord DGB pulled a BM/ABR and actually hit scum...

[DrippingGoofball]

Woot! Bull's eye!!!

And to think I had a twinge of regret after I sent the kill order to the mod, ha!

I just thought he was uncannily defensive with the possibility of death millers or roles that could muck up the obituaries... well, I know what I saw last night. So I shot him.

[Celebloki]

Well I would congratulate you and am obviously happy you hit scum, but I don't like all these random dayvigs that keep going on =p

[Surye]

Current belief: DGB is the last of the Sicilians (I think 3 is a likely number for each mob). I have a few reasons to back this up that I cannot yet reveal, so don't believe me if you don't want to, and don't worry, I won't go crazy and dayvig. But trust me, I'm letting you all know now to watch DGB very carefully. If I am right about 3, then we have 2 more Corsican. NabNab and GW would be convenient, but too obvious to have been seen together so buddy buddy, but maybe one of them is, and associated with the other to appear more innocent.

The other two high on my list are Crub and Hjallti for laying low and not posting much content at all.

ABR may also be another Corsican, which would leave only 1 of them left too.

Anyways, right now I think DGB needs a bit of pressure, as I don't buy her Death Miller argument she's been so insistent on.

Vote: DGB

[Surye]

If I'm right about NabNab/GW, and only one of them are, it's gonna be GW since he made the active action of going to NabNab's.

IGMEOY: GW

[Dasquian]

Bah! Go Corsica!

[DrippingGoofball]

Current belief: DGB is the last of the Sicilians (I think 3 is a likely number for each mob). I have a few reasons to back this up that I cannot yet reveal

Well Surye if you want to pressure me, it's pointless if your don't list the "reasons" to give me an opportunity to blow them out of the water. Plus, check your notes, dang it, as the mayor you KNOW what I am.

Anyways, right now I think DGB needs a bit of pressure, as I don't buy her Death Miller argument she's been so insistent on.

I know what I freakin' saw. I saw him break into another player's house. Then he turns up vanilla??? Er, I don't think so. He's at least not vanilla. He's got some role where he's out at night. So the reveal is wrong, wrong, wrong.

[Surye]

Current belief: DGB is the last of the Sicilians (I think 3 is a likely number for each mob). I have a few reasons to back this up that I cannot yet reveal

Well Surye if you want to pressure me, it's pointless if your don't list the "reasons" to give me an opportunity to blow them out of the water. Plus, check your notes, dang it, as the mayor you KNOW what I am.

Well, if you want to put it that way, fine, I suspect you are my corrupt cop, if I have one. 1) The first night you investigated a N1 kill, Flameaxe, which if you were mafia, you KNEW he would die, so you wouldn't be helping town, and you could look legitimate by giving a real, truthful, report. I was suspicious then, but it wasn't that strong. Then you did not submit a report last night, waited to see how the day would start, started dropping hints about armlx, and dayviged Das for a really really shallow reason. My guess is you "investigated" him last night, and found a rival, and was just waiting for a moment to strike, and look half justified, and look very town.

This was all just a stream of opportunism, and I don't buy it. My other cops don't seem nearly as suspicious as you do for the previous reasons, and so I believe you are the corrupt cop.

I am also quite sure about my other cops, so I feel confident enough to out your role and call for the town to consider my case.

Anyways, right now I think DGB needs a bit of pressure, as I don't buy her Death Miller argument she's been so insistent on.

I know what I freakin' saw. I saw him break into another player's house. Then he turns up vanilla??? Er, I don't think so. He's at least not vanilla. He's got some role where he's out at night. So the reveal is wrong, wrong, wrong.

My meta on skitzer says that he is just crazy enough to send a ??? action in which he tries to take the law into his hands. Or do something. If the reveal is wrong, then this game is pointless, just fumbling around in the dark. It is not unreasonable to assume there was something else going on, but a missreveal is too game breaking. Killing Das over not buying that was a red herring.

[DrippingGoofball]

Possible Dasquian buddies:

Best bet, Superfly. Dasquian rushed right out of the garage to bus that lurker, like a rabid pit bull. He goes on and on, and post after post, I've never seen anyone have so much to say about a silent lurker. When Superfly finally posts, Dasquian convieniently "likes" the post and unvotes.

Other than that Superfly incident, Dasquian was acting rather pro-towm. Unfortunately, he dares to argue with me, and I KNEW I was right, so he had to be scum.

Possible CyberBob and BattleMage buddies:

These two were caught in the noose pretty early on, I'd expect them to do some last minute bus'ing.

ABR gets a vote, GhostWriter gets a HOS but no vote, Dasquian (opposite scumteam) gets FOS, votes Surye, not much else. We've already killed ABR, I am going to guess GW here for the scumpartner based on CB's contribution.

Now, BM. I hate to analyze BM.
Voges dahill, AwesomePants, dahill again, Natirisha, CyberBob (ha!), Surye, confirm Surye. Then he spammed like crazy. I'd say for thim, dahill, because he voted him twice.

[DrippingGoofball]

Well, if you want to put it that way, fine, I suspect you are my corrupt cop, if I have one. 1) The first night you investigated a N1 kill, Flameaxe, which if you were mafia, you KNEW he would die, so you wouldn't be helping town, and you could look legitimate by giving a real, truthful, report. I was suspicious then, but it wasn't that strong. Then you did not submit a report last night, waited to see how the day would start, started dropping hints about armlx, and dayviged Das for a really really shallow reason. My guess is you "investigated" him last night, and found a rival, and was just waiting for a moment to strike, and look half justified, and look very town.

I'm pleasantly surprised, these aren't crap reasons, I am re-assured that you are thinking things through.

1. My choice of Flameaxe: I despise playing with Flameaxe. All he does is vote for me. No matter what. Normally I would kill him right off the bat, if I could. Since I couldn't kill him, my first choice, I decided to investigate him, so that if he was guilty, then I'd have him lynched. If he was innocent, I would just ignore him.

2. I did not investigate Dasquian last night. I investigated skitzer, because I find him opaque, and I didn't find anyone hugely scummy, and he seemed an unlikely night target, go figure. And since I thought my night action was going to be canceled because I asked to be sequestered at QB, I almost did not send in a night action, and when I did, I forgot to ask to have a report sent to you. Interestingly though, I got much more information than I did when I did send you the report.

3. I have no hints about armlx, I know nothing about armlx.

4. My reason was not shallow. I had pointed out, early in the day, that the obituaries should not be trusted. Again, skitzer turned up vanilla, and yet, I saw him at sideney's house, trying to break in. I KNEW that something was up with the obituaries. So it was not a shallow reason at all. Now, I posted a reminder, since no one wanted to touch it. And Dasquian took the bite, and argued that I could not possibly be right.

He completely rejected the idea, and tried to discredit it rather aggressively. My thinking was that he too, knew that the obituaries were inaccurate, but he didn't want the truth to come out, and needed to squash any challenge to their reliability before townies would begin to wonder and put two and two together.

Only scum would want to cover up that they are messing with the reveals. Only scum.

This was all just a stream of opportunism, and I don't buy it. My other cops don't seem nearly as suspicious as you do for the previous reasons, and so I believe you are the corrupt cop.

I am also quite sure about my other cops, so I feel confident enough to out your role and call for the town to consider my case.