Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[Lowell]

VOTE: lil

In case he replaces out before I get a chance.

[Lowell]

Because I'm not a sheep, sheep.

[Lowell]

@Fro99, you don't need to defend my honor. But seriously thanks for defending my honor.

VOTE: sheep

Is the slip real? Who knows? Am I going to laugh if the sheep flips scum? You bet!

[Lowell]

From page 3, last I remember:

52- Lil votes sheep to L-3 [+, good pressure]
54- chaos votes wheme, asks what he thinks [-, possible derailment?]
65- hawk calls lil suspicious because he was "the last one to vote [sheep]" [-, what??]
76- AJ calls out hawk for being chicken [+]
80s-90s- Ter and naomi banter [ter looks bad, naomi looks good]
114- Lil explains sheep vote, three times, then promptly unvotes [-, why?]
120s- frogger pushes sheep wagon [+, good]
142- sheep, Lil, Wheme lead w/ 3 votes
158- sheep OMGUS' frogger
171- sheep points out ter's WKing, then reversal when wagon dies [+, hadn't noticed this]
200- EC enters to call out gerry [-, not particularly revealing]
213- AJ calls out hawk again [+, yep]
222- frogger joins hawk-wagon [+]
223- sheep, too [-, good vote, but why he and frogger besties all of a sudden?]
229- frogger notices, returns to sheep [+]
274- naomi post-walls, has NO scum candidates [-, weak]
282- chaos again defends sheep [-, twice now he's derailed]
284- ter votes chaos [+, good new wagon]
293- sheep and hawk lead with three votes
315- wheme calls hawk scum for jumping on "weak" sheep wagon [-, why weak?]
324- EC again jumps in to vote a lurkerish player [-, why not, say, Lowell then?]
346- penguin enters, votes sheep [-, opportunistic]

Some scums:

VOTE: chaos
Chaos looks to be making a specific and deliberate attempt to derial the sheep wagon early on. All of his posts are either subtle attempts to derail the sheep wagon or him asking "hey I wonder what player X think of the sheep wagon?" His entire game so far seems to exist only to make sure sheep isn't killed... without it appearing as so. This is protecting a scumbuddy or WKing a town to pocket him (I'm leaning the former), but either way chaos is certainly scum.

fos hawk

The way he talks in 65 and 75 he takes as given that sheep is not scum and the wagon on him was serving some other purpose than to lynch scum. But why? I notice he's not the only one to do this (Naomi does as well), but the fact that he doesn't even consider the leading wagon could be scum (or is even serious) reads like he already knows the answer.

fos naomi

Maybe someone is going to jump in and tell me there's a meta I'm missing, but to post so many times and not have any scumreads is just bad. I think she's at least partially playing up the "omg I can't decide, it's so hard to find scum!" angle to avoid having to take a stance.

Some maybes:

frogger

. As a rule I'm very, very skeptical of "that guy who everyone townreads." Frogger is no exception. I don't have a playstyle bone to pick here, but tonally he's not quite where I'd expect him to be as a widely-assumed pro-town player. tl:dr I'm putting a pin in this one.

sheep

. I read him as very scum at the start and less so as I read on, largely due to the associative things happening around him. He starting to feel less like obvscum and more like opportunistic target. His brute force responses to his critics read less scholarly than oppressive, so none of his defenses really stick for me.

EC

. This guy is just trying to hide. Don't have a strong read but there it is.

Some towns:

AJ

. The only real, strong townread I have in this game. His calling out hawk posts are spot on, and he's in general a good kind of lurker. The one that shows up, is right, then leaves.

ter

. Went 180 on this guy. Thought he looked bad in his first interactions with naomi, but now I look back and I think I misread that passage. I've liked the wide net he's casting and the way he engages.

Whoever is left, null, I guess.

[Lowell]

@Lowell - considering their relative wagon sizes and that you don't seem to like either player's play - why did you choose to hop on the Chaos wagon as opposed to the more vibrant Hawk wagon?

I'd do either, but didn't want to give up on my top choice until/unless it isn't viable. I don't see a deadline or anything.

[Lowell]

Lowell, I think I'd rather take the infrequent participation versus the frequent presence. Gerroat has posted plenty but actually said nothing yet. That rubs me the wrong way, and that doesn't actively aid town in anything. WhemeStar has posted a good chunk of fluff at well but at least has contributed something for me to work off of—and now I've tried to dig deeper into that.

The other lurkers aren't off my radar. Just not my focus right now.

I'll be busy for the most of the day and will be back when I can. For what it's worth, right now I'm feeling that Cooperative Sheep, Terata, and WhemeStar could be a scum team.

It's not your level of participation. I'd be a hypocrite for calling out a lurker just for lurking. The problem with you is that you show up and offer nothing but an attack on another lurker/quasi-lurker. It looks like you're avoiding conflict intentionally.

[Lowell]

@sheep- Yeah, I don't really care about whatever you're saying. chaos is scum so I'm voting him.

[Lowell]

Can I just point out that I merely put an FOS on both EC and naomi and they both immediately flipped their shit on me? I am all powerful. Fear me.

[Lowell]

Haha well if you lynch me and I turn up scum you'll be vindicated!

If it's worth clarifying, I meant that the points you made about hawk and his derailment of other wagons were timely and good. Less so on the Lowell-scum part.

[Lowell]

^^^ this refers to AJ

[Lowell]

Can I just point out that I merely put an FOS on both EC and naomi and they both immediately flipped their shit on me? I am all powerful. Fear me.

this post is ew

Is it? Naomi crafted an entire case to OMGUS my FOS. That matters. And EC is clearly panicking. I'm through the looking glass, here, don't try to rattle me.

[Lowell]

I don't think so. EC hasn't had much of a strong stance on anything or anyone the whole game, but clearly is hypersensitive to his image. How is this town?

Ditto naomi. I find it hard to believe the case on me... which spans since the beginning of the game, materialized irrespective of my scumread of her. She, too, is protecting her.

Call this stylistic, but how often do you see non-scum players so sensitive to their image?

[Lowell]

ebwop:

her = herself

[Lowell]

Well, fine. But I've played a lot of games and only when I'm aligned with scum do I find myself frantically searching the thread for every ill mention of my name. It feels like that's what both naomi and EC are doing here. But if you're saying you don't agree with the general philosophy there, then not sure what the point in arguing with you is.

[Lowell]

Well, fine. But I've played a lot of games and only when I'm aligned with scum do I find myself frantically searching the thread for every ill mention of my name. It feels like that's what both naomi and EC are doing here.

Are you saying naomi and EC are beetlejuicing? Or are you criticizing them for defending themselves?

It's pretty natural to defend oneself. Chaos just defended himself against me, and that was one of his only 7 posts at the time he made that post. How is that different from what they did?

I don't know what beetlejuicing means. What I'm saying is I fos'd naomi and she came back with a case against me and voted me. What I'm also saying is that had I not mentioned her in my post (or mentioned her as town) I bet she would not have done that. To me it looks like a visceral, panicked OMGUS response to unwanted attention. Which is different than, "you said X, here is why I disagree with X". So, whatever you call that, it's bad.

[Lowell]

@ter, tell me what you're seeing in chaos that made you change your mind about him. honestly it looks like your mind was a little too ready to be "changed"

[Lowell]

Yo Mitchell.

terata is town.

I think he's made an excellent case against WhemeStar. Are you basing your town read on him entirely on that?

But nvm that for now, I just caught a scum

And you say that with 100% confidence? WhemeStar

is

scum, not just probably?

I don't know the status of my vote or various wagons, but I'm ready to vote EC. This is classic derailment.

[Lowell]

I haven't read through all of hawk's megaposts but I'm not a fan of the "well, I'm not scum, but I get why you guys think that, sorry I'm being scummy so far, I'll do better" defense. It trivializes things that are said against him.

[Lowell]

I'm going to go with the wheme claim for now. Someone pointed out it could easily be a scumrole, which is true, but for D1 I don't see the point in testing it.

VOTE: EC

Can we finally wagon this guy? He's coasting, and also scum. Plus I don't have the energy to sustain this chaos wagon by myself.

[Lowell]

there's a difference (a big one) between trying to appear to solve, which is the feeling im getting from you, and not caring at all, which is Gerry. And i don't have a problem with the fact you're scum reading me. But that a big part of why you're scum reading me is w/w with Wheme, is insane in a bad way

Agreed, there's a difference there. But that's not what you accused me of doing in your post. "Doesn't feel drive to solve," is an entirely different statement from "is trying too hard to appear like he's solving."

You're all over the place my man.

Okay but this isn't really what the rest of us have been saying. And either way is bad.

[Lowell]

@EC- because it's about you, and I'm trying to get you lynched. Ter doesn't speak for everyone on your wagon and I'll respond to what I want. The case is about you, not ter. It doesn't matter who pushes that case forward.

[Lowell]

VOTE: Wheme

So did you see wheme's claim? Or is this your way of saying you don't believe it?

[Lowell]

Open question to anyone that scumreads Wheme but doesn't want to lynch them because of the Rolestopper claim: Why? What benefit are you hoping to gain by giving them a night to work? Even if they are town, their power is neutered now because the scum know they have to play around a protection.

I don't nesscarily scumread Wheme but I can see the arguments for why he's scum. I'm more inclined to believe the claim than not. So Chaos from someone who isn't sold but isn't unwilling to lynch Wheme why should I vote Wheme here? Why is it better for me to go against my belief that Wheme is actually town PR and buy the case that he's scum fake claiming?

I mean, I guess I don't know why you're asking this. If you don't scumread him, then don't vote to lynch him? If you're curious as to why you should vote Wheme, peruse my ISO, it's not very long. I believe the claim from an ability standpoint, just not an alignment one.

Chaos earns some townpoints for this if Wheme is town, and some scumpoints if Wheme is scum. And vice versa. This is clear distancing on a fakeclaim, but good aggression that I doubt scum would do if the claim is true.

[Lowell]

Lowell what are you even talking about? You think chaos has been bussing wheme all day, when I made a huge wall post about how I thought chaos was manipulating wheme.

No.

Just no. I think Chaos and Wheme are either both town, or one is town one is scum. There is ZERO chance both are scum.

I def see the possibility of "distancing via fake(ish) attacks" going on here. Wheme flips scum and chaos says "see I told you the claim might be fake, I'm town!" I less see the possibility that wheme is town but chaos is scum. Not sure what scum chaos would have to gain from picking on town PR wheme when he could just not comment at all. Yes, I admit this is WIFOM, but as scum most people don't take those kind of chances.

[Lowell]

FYI, I'm likely out this weekend.

[Lowell]

Sorry all, out for the weekend. Back now. Give me a minute to amaze and astonish.

[Lowell]

Okay a day late.

From 700:

718- EC says Wheme and Chaos could both be scum
719- wheme pushes chaoswagon
723- mods should stop letting lil in games, all he does is replace out
730s- hawk and frogger argue about sheep and gerry, among others [+, hawk looks good here]
747- frog points out why one of wheme and chaos are scum, but not both [+, good point]
751- wheme leads w/ 4 votes
759- unknown enters for lil [+, I like almost all of this]
804- hawk says wheme is town based on what he knows about setup
960s- wheme calls gerry town for not caring, ali/frog not so sure
970s- chaos wagon starts to move
1030- ali makes case against gerry
1036- chaos wants hawk to semi-claim
1043- gerry claims PR, calls ali scum
1102- wheme leads with 4 votes
1111- wheme says her wagon has "0 resistance" [-, don't agree at all]
1150- unknown votes new wagon to "get thoughts out" [-, other ways to do this]

So we have

Wheme - Odd-night rolestopper
Hawk - mechanically says Wheme's role makes sense as town in conjunction with his
Chaos - says Wheme's role doesn't make sense as town based off his own PR
Gerry - says he's a PR

Count me in the camp who doubt these are all pro-town powerroles. The circumstances around wheme's claim are the worst (he was under pressure), but hawk's backing makes it slightly better for me. Chaos' claim didn't come under pressure (IIRC), nor did gerry's, so they look better IMO. Also I think chaos took a risk asking hawk to "semi-claim"--a risk I'm not sure he'd take as scum. tl:dr I'm not that comfortable choosing between these four today.

I'm inclined to side with hawk on his argument with ali. Ali's reaction (and subsequent OMGUS) of gerry reads a little performative to me.

fos ali

In 1111 wheme says that the wagon on him has no resistance, therefore he's town. I see the exact opposite. People have been talking about wheme forever yet can't get over the hump. There's clear resistance there.

I've liked unknown's entry into the game for the most part, but disliked havingfitz. Fitz' sheep case feels a bit like a sideshow. He mentions in 986 his two suspects are sheep and terata, votes sheep, then doesn't mention either of them again. He's made no effort to move the needle on this wagon, or turn it to terata. His only obsession seems to be hassling people who vote wheme. Being more concerned about people NOT voting a player, rather than wanting people TO vote a player, is a scumtell for me.

fos havingfitz

If there's no extension this fitz wagon isn't going to happen. I'll vote wheme at deadline if it comes to it, but I agree with those who say let PRs sort themselves out if we're not sure.

[Lowell]

Eh, well I read fast. Even so, it's your reaction that gets me, not so much that you suspect gerry.

[Lowell]

I kinda like this post by Lowell.

like, a lot.

Well put your money where your mouth is. I'm ready for a havingfitz powerwagon.

I'd vote EC, fitz, ali, and wheme. Maybe others, I'd have to look closer.

[Lowell]

frogger, no, AJ, no, sheep and terata, probably not, hawk, meh. chaos, probably not.

I'd vote EC, fitz, ali, and wheme. Maybe others, I'd have to look closer.

Why Wheme?

I thought you just said you weren't comfortable voting in the PRs?

If it comes to that or nothing at deadline I'll lynch wheme. It'll provide some info on havingfitz. If wheme flips scum fitz is probably scum too. Though yes I'd rather do in reverse.

[Lowell]

Oh yeah still voting EC.

VOTE: fitz

[Lowell]

Whoa there's that powerwagon I wanted! Not quite where I wanted it though.

[Lowell]

Lowell I REALLY feel like you're posturing over the Wheme slot.

Meaning what? I do or I don't want to lynch him?

[Lowell]

"No one is reading Lowell as town" is different than "Lowell is not town." I'm throwing that out as my standard disclaimer since the first is always true and the second only occasionally is.

I can see this moving towards a compromise lynch on me. So be it, if it must be for everyone to figure out what they need to figure out on D2. EC needs to be reckoned with. Every single one of his opinions is safe. This latest jump on me followed by the "oh hey I think unknown is town" are just the latest examples. Everything he does is put through the "will this opinion get me in trouble" ringer before he says anything. Fitz is dead scummy, and at least one of these powerroles is as well. My concern with the PRs is that I don't think the scum PR(s) would have claimed without some reason for thinking their claims will be "safe" for at least awhile.

Okay accusers, do your worst!

[Lowell]

Okay, if it's not me. Why, now?

VOTE: sheep

I have no read here at all. 55 pages in. No one listens to me and I'm going to go eat worms.

[Lowell]

Can I 1v1 someone? I feel the need to make myself relevant somehow.

[Lowell]

Thanks, coach. I don't believe you.

[Lowell]

If sheep flips town I expect Lowell dead no questions asked REGARDLESS of my presence tomorrow.

Sure let's 1v1 if sheep is town. Actually, let's 1v1 if sheep is scum, too. K?

[Lowell]

Sheep L-1
Lowell L-3

Chaos, gerry and Unknown all with lone votes going nowhere.

Lowell has passed Sheep on my suspect list. And most others on that list are voting Sheep so I'll pass unless a NL is at risk.

Is it because I pointed out your obvious scumminess while sheep hasn't done shit?

I'll 1v1 you, too. 1v2, you can have AJ.

[Lowell]

See? Everyone always regrets Lowell-wagons the next day. Also I'm V/LA until Tuesday. Try not to powerlynch anyone while I'm gone. I will continue to accept 1v1 offers until then.

[Lowell]

Wow, I lived.

Havingfitz was very determined to discourage my hammer vote and attempted to get me to switch to Lowell.....

Hmmm....

If I were going to bus, this is how I'd play the start of D2.

[Lowell]

That said, I'd really rather fitz be scum. Or AJ.

[Lowell]

responding to prod. haven´t read. wont do so until at least tomorrow, probably tuesday. foreign keyboard so I dont know how to bracket a vote anyway, just as well.

[Lowell]

Well I certainly look pretty terrible now. With the speed of that wagon, I think it's unlikely both of Sheep's partners bussed him. If that's true, there is scum in AJ, Fitz, ECM, me, and gerry.

VOTE: ECMitchell

@Chaos, i disagree. I think at least 1 could have bussed. especially if they saw him ending up as the lynch anyway.

I think there could be one busser. I find it extremely unlikely they both bussed. Assuming Lowell is town, they had an option to jump on an accepted wagon and not look bad.

I agree with this. There's no way BOTH scumbuddies bussed, considering how close I came to lynch and how vocal some of my lynchers were. AJ STILL fucking thinks I'm scum today, for god's sake. AJ, chaos, EC, fitz, and gerry are all town and scum didn't jump on that opportunity to lynch me? It's entirely possible that one scum bussed to keep the votes even (esp since they have daychat), but no effing way both did.

Hawk was such a weird kill. Worth looking at what he's said, because I don't see why killing him would do anything.

Yeah the NK was weird as shit, but they might've just been targeting claimed PRs.

I think Fitz is a good place to start the day. I mean I'm all for a lowell lynch but like either flip was gonna help figure this game out. To really force that one when fitz didn't have a huge opinion prior is a bit strange. Who's he replaced in for?

Also lowell I'd still bet I'd win a 1v1 vs you.

Here is a guy who is disappointed I wasn't lynched, but is trying hard not to let it show. When you say you're for a Lowell lynch do you mean yesterday, or now? Because if now? I really don't know what to tell you.

fos AJ

Terata had zero reason to START a counterwagon to Lowell on her scumbuddy.

Terata is nearly conftown in my eyes

Agreed completely. Bussing is one thing, but there's no reason terata would have pulled the sheep wagon out of nowhere at the last minute like that. terata is town. If one were going to try to cash in on towncred for bussing, you'd do it much more like:

fos unknown

has, with feigned relief at not being NKed for such a brave, brave hammer.

Was not expecting to see Cooperative Sheep flip scum. Interesting death during the night too. Unless I'm missing something very obvious, don't we lynch WhemeStar now? Or by ChaosOmega's vote on me, am I to take it that you've successfully sorted WhemeStar last night and can confirm their town alignment? Hawk's role being a universal backup, in conjunction with the other soft and hard claims, confirms town has myriad power roles this game. Typically a role stopper would be assigned to scum in this case.

VOTE: WhemeStar

He's asking for permission to vote, as best as I can tell. I agree with those who have said he's flailing.

fos EC

[Lowell]

Regardless of Town or Scum, no point in early hammering anyways.

Still don't see why scum would put two likely to-be Town players as their scum reads because they both voted Sheep and several people said focus non-sheep voters.

Feel free to disagree.

This might actually be a good point (about EC). Still leaning towards "his plan to lynch me got effed up and now he's flailing", but will think on it.

VOTE: Chaos Omega

Can you explain this? Chaos said right off the bat that he looked guiltly for being on my wagon and said he wanted to look at others on the wagon as suspects. Seems like either you think "okay, that's reasonable," or "this guy is just trying to back peddle out of a jam." Why wait to cast this vote? And why not expain?

[Lowell]

VOTE: ECM

Okay on reread he's just flailing. If he were town, the terata thing makes no sense. Most likely he wants us to look on the sheep-wagon because that's not where he was.

[Lowell]

UNVOTE:

Fine. Though I'm not quite sure what the worry is. No one is quicklynching.

[Lowell]

I'm now feeling pretty good about AJ as town. There's no reason for him to softclaim a weak-ish role with that many PRs already claimed and no threat on him whatsoever.

And if he's town I'm even more certain at least one scum (plus sheep) was on my wagon, because AJ would have been the obvious scapegoat if I had been lynched (since he tunneled me like whoa), or the obvious one to lead the D2 wagon on me if we lynched town. Point is I can easily envision a plan where scum lynches someone else D1, then sits back and lets AJ lead a wagon on me D2. AJ just being scum and doing all that actually makes slightly less sense to me.

[Lowell]

I had forgotten about chaos' quasi-counter of wheme being the reason we gave both of them a free pass for the night.

VOTE: chaos

ECM is still fine, too.

[Lowell]

Damn it's boring being here early morning.

[Lowell]

This is perhaps WIFOM, but if we lynch him and he flips scum he'd have to know we're immediately going to look at his "track" though, right?

[Lowell]

Ok the follow-up then:

What made you feel you are a counter role to Wheme?

If ECM didn't do anything, what's your take on the night kill? Who done it?

Ditto this. You either claimed to be or led people to believe you could sort wheme for us or were a direct counterclaim.

[Lowell]

v/LA till Monday morning. I'll post if I get the chance.

Unknown1234 has asked for replacement, Searching now.

I'll vote if needed then.

VOTE: ChaosOmega

It really feels like fitz to me. This post looks so offputting, the most passive-aggressive derailing of chaos-wagon. If Ali is really claiming then I agree we need to flip him or frogger, preferably frogger first since he claimed VT, but I really want to lynch fitz. If chaos had flipped scum it would have been easy fitz, but even so this looks like someone who knew what the flip would be.

[Lowell]

^scum

^flailing

So, this too. Maybe I'm reaching a bit here, but one thing I find scum try too hard to do is justify every vote. Like here. You don't need to have previously scumread EITHER ali or frogger are scum to want to lynch frogger here. So this looks like he's reaching to reverse-engineer some reason to vote for frogger when really there doesn't need to be one.

[Lowell]

Which, I now see, has more or less already been said....

[Lowell]

Sigh

I'm town Lowell

In my gut I believe you. Your reaction doesn't look like caught scum. But I also don't see why Ali fakeclaims there so there's no way I can lynch him first over a VT. Isn't that pretty much what you said like three pages ago?

[Lowell]

No.

I said lynch me to prove he's lying.

No because I'm a VT (VT is my claim and it's a direct counter to the guilty on me)

You say you can't see him doing this as town. But when I flip town then what's your reason for him doing this?

If you flip VT it means he's scum.

[Lowell]

I kind of agree

But scum have day chat and that would be a really bad thing for Ali to do withiut consulting his buddy

And it all went down so fast I'm not sure his scumbuddy was there, so it's something they either invented at night or Ali went rogue on his buddy with a pretty terrible gambit

This is the other reason I feel like we need to lynch you first. There's just no way I can understand why Ali would fakeclaim as scum out of nowhere, given he mostly has towncred (or nullcred) for most people and the "rogue on his buddy with a pretty terrible gambit" just doesn't seem likely. I can, however, see you powering your way out of a lynch despite being caught scum given your towncred---and I'm currently imagining you cackling maniacally in a scumthread somewhere. The only possible gambit scenrio I see is Ali/frogger scum, but that seems too far-fetched.

We kill you, and if you're VT, we've got a scum out of it. The people rallying to your defense here are sketchy as hell IMO. What's Ali doing if frogger is town?

[Lowell]

VOTE: frogger

Die frogscum die! Hammer!

[Lowell]

Back from long weekend. Prod avoidance today, case coming tomorrow. Quick thoughts.

1- can someone explain to me what ali was doing? Or at least a plausible theory? would have liked yesterday to have lasted long enough to discuss it.
2- making a case tomorrow. spoiler, it will be Unknown. Probably. I have several reasons to think he's scum. But also one big reason he's not. I need to look back at something to be sure. But yeah I really want it to be him.
3- need to re-sort fitz and IaI, who have grown interchangeable in my mind despite being the obvious lynch candidates.

[Lowell]

Okay, I'm back. And

Unknown

is the last scum. Let's go back to the beginning, and start with the best case he's NOT scum.

We have to interrupt this Bringer Mafia episode to make a special announcement. Do you want to save money on car insurance?

Vote Count #1.20:

Cooperative Sheep [LYNCHED] Terata, Fro99er, Hawk, Alisae, Whemestar, Lowell, Unknown1234

Lowell [L-2] Aj The Epic, Cooperative Sheep, Havingfitz, EcMitchell, ChaosOmega
Alisae [L-6] Gerryoat

Not Voting (0):

With 13 people alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2017-02-15 15:45:00)

Here's the D1 lynch. My feeling at the time, and up until the dawn of today, was that there was AT MOST one busser on sheep's wagon. The reasoning here was that, given daytalk, they could have easily swayed the lynch to me if there were two of them on sheep's wagon. Put a pin in that...

Wow, I lived.

Havingfitz was very determined to discourage my hammer vote and attempted to get me to switch to Lowell.....

Hmmm....

Both of these I've mentioned. They're suspicious as hell LAMIST posts. They make no sense from a town POV. No one in a 13-player game should say "wow, I lived" after N1. Even if Unknown was the single driving force for the sheep wagon (he wasn't), it reeks of faux surprise.

So then Ali claims guilty result on frogger. Obvious 1v1. Somehow Unknown gets to here:

Sue me for not knowing roles.

If there is 0 chance feedback is altered, I'd pick Ali over Frogger any day.

If I'm wrong, then Frogger did well and Ali really sucks. As bad a Havingfitz.

VOTE: Ali

I don't think I'm wrong though.

Why? VT v. powerrole, lynch the VT first. Where does Unknown's confidence that Ali was pulling an insane gambit come from? While most ppl were thinking "what the hell would Ali have to gain by lying to kill a VT," Unknown seemed to know ali was lying. Only, he doesn't really explain this in a way that would give anyone else a reason to jump from the frogger wagon. Just sort of distances himself from the frogger lynch.

Y'all are dumb as fuck.

VOTE: Alisae

And the payoff. He could easily have pushed this earlier if had reasons. Instead he wants to make everyone who voted frogger look like an idiot.

If Lowell/Terata is scum then wp.

VOTE: HavingFitz

This is the post that swayed me. This conclusion just seems too pat for any number of reasons. First, why would a town player just casually elimate 2/4 players from the lynch pool given that we presumably have two lynches left?

Second, it VERY much looks like he's dying to pocket me. I have been saying from the beginning that AT LEAST one scum must be off the sheep wagon. So who does gerry's death benefit then? There are now only two players off the wagon (IaI and fitz) and two chances to lynch. If scum were one of those two, why wouldn't they kill off terata or me or Unknown in order to keep the number of non-sheep-bussing lynchable candidate pool higher? As it is, if I follow through with my plan of assuming both scum didn't wagon, I'm left with--surprise!--the same lynch pool as Unknown.

Also, in #1966 (I lost the link), Unknown says that if Ali is scum, fitz probably isn't. So what changed?

[Lowell]

Sorry, out of the office today. Will catch up tomorrow.

[Lowell]

vote terata

If the group goes with me, I want a promise that terata is lynched in LyLo when I flip green. Time for others to talk. I'll be happy to answer any questions tho

Mostly caught up. This is some LAMIST shit right here. IaI's entire defense the last few pages is "well no way would I do all these things as scum, I'm obvtown!" which does not impress.

Unknown's response to my case completely misses the point. The main point it, who would benefit from gerry's death and Ali's murder/suicide? Unknown (and possibly terata) are only people I can think of who would benefit from this. In a game without scum daychat I'd say maybe Ali just went rogue or something, but I doubt it here.

VOTE: unknown

If not unknown, then I'm leaning IaI based on these last few pages.

[Lowell]

I just honestly feel if Lowell, Fitz, and I stick together, we win. If I'm wrong about one of those two, I'll personally take full responsibility for the loss. And if that was the case, I'm sure Frogger will let me have it with his "don't ever vote out terata" postgame.

If the choices are Unknown today, and if Unknown flips town, than me, I'd rather you lynch me first so Lowell/Fitz, whoever survives the night can trust my analysis and seriously consider Terata in LyLo. Make Terata and Unknown cross vote, then you make the final call.

I've done about all I can do to this point. I don't see my reads changing.

Honestly I'm just not 100% there yet with both partners bussing sheep. I can see it being Unknown despite that but have a hard time with terata. He STARTED the wagon that saved me and killed scum. So unless this is a reeaaally long con I don't see it. BOTH partners sacrificed themselves to get him to this spot?

[Lowell]

I just honestly feel if Lowell, Fitz, and I stick together, we win. If I'm wrong about one of those two, I'll personally take full responsibility for the loss. And if that was the case, I'm sure Frogger will let me have it with his "don't ever vote out terata" postgame.

If the choices are Unknown today, and if Unknown flips town, than me, I'd rather you lynch me first so Lowell/Fitz, whoever survives the night can trust my analysis and seriously consider Terata in LyLo. Make Terata and Unknown cross vote, then you make the final call.

I've done about all I can do to this point. I don't see my reads changing.

Honestly I'm just not 100% there yet with both partners bussing sheep. I can see it being Unknown trying to get D1 cred from the lynch despite that but have a hard time with terata. He STARTED the wagon that saved me and killed scum. So unless this is a reeaaally long con I don't see it. BOTH partners sacrificed themselves to get him to this spot?

So long story short it looks like Unknown to me but no I don't accept your "stick with me and fitz" if I'm wrong.

[Lowell]

sorry, doublepost. second one is clearer.

[Lowell]

Your whole defense right now is "EVERYTHING IS WIFOM!" I explained why I think it's you. You've done nothing to refute it other than to argue that the case "assumes" you are scum, whatever that means.

[Lowell]

^^^ It's also presumably not even lylo, so I'm not sure why we all have to just sit on our dicks not voting.

[Lowell]

Lowell....what do you think of the Terata case?

I don't know. I would be surprised if it's him but I won't rule anyone out.

Basically I think Unknown has more to gain by jumping on the sheep wagon at the end of D1 to theatrically hammer than terata does earlier in the wagon. Also, frogger was townreading terata pretty hard so the Ali move doesn't make a ton of sense to save terata. Although it is also true that terata being on the sheep wagon would explain why they couldn't turn the lynch to me-- terata abandoning ship when sheep got to dangerous ground would be too obvious.

tl:dr, not sold.

[Lowell]

Lowell your biggest issue is that your letting Alisae's actions convince you that fitz and IAI are innocent. It's actually incredibly stupid.

Can you say why I'm scum other than because Ali convinced u that her teammate is someone who wasn't in danger.

Okay, let's start with this. Explain to me how you knew Ali was lying about his claim. And, if you knew, why you didn't make any effort to convince anyone to lynch Ali first and save frogger. I've seen you when you're feeling passionate about convincing someone of something (like now, for instance)... so convince me your behavior then was the same.

[Lowell]

This was me seeing a VT v PR 1v1 and thinking there's no way scum would sacrifice themselves to kill a random VT. You can't complain about this if you're going to admit you did nothing to change anyone's mind.

[Lowell]

That is where you're wrong. Look at who is accusing and who is being accused. As soon as there's a CC, it should be who is the most townie opposed to who has the lead.

Also, how many PR's did you think there were?

I have no idea how many powerroles there are. I just didn't see any way Ali would lie about a powerrole to get rid of a VT, so that was the logic for the vote. The fact that you "knew" it was Ali, basically did nothing to change anyone's mind, then use that as a cudgel now against anyone who voted frogger is why you're scummy as hell.

[Lowell]

I'm going to be relatively MIA this weekend. Will try to check in at least once or twice though.

FWIW I like 2259, actually. I've been focused on terata's saving ME and hadn't really thought about how he came around to sheep.

[Lowell]

Still not terata over Unknown, though.

[Lowell]

actually, i wouldn't be suprised if scum left alive Lowell because he's been tunneling unknown. And it's gonna create a lot of confusion. If that happens, just don't start tinfoiling Lowell. And solve who's the scum between unknown the the last one. I don't think it's gonna happen but it's a possibility.

When was I tunnelling Unknown, other than today?

And voting you isn't good either, because the only 2 that have expressed any want in voting you is Lowell. So me is the logical choice is scum. I gotta look back at his townread of me and how that changed

I don't know what this means, or who you are talking about.

Terata is mad whiteknighting me right now.

Explain the fitz case to me again? If I'm so certain to die if I'm wrong, as you say, I might as well get this right.

[Lowell]

I don't like an IAI vote. Not today anyways.

Terata would you vote Fitz? The only thing is though that I doubt Lowell could be convinced either way but I'm getting second thoughts.

Could you explain

this

?

[Lowell]

I don't mean it as a slip. I mean it as I want Unknown to explain what difference it makes when he's lynched if he's one of the two candidates Unknown wants dead.

[Lowell]

@fitz, I'm buying your reasoning for how teratascum could have ended up inadvertently pushing a D1 wagon on his partner despite me being at L-2. But it still looks a little reverse-engineered--I don't recall terata being that strong on me being town until after sheep's flip. I'm worried I'm going 180 on this guy too quick, maybe.

[Lowell]

TBH, I'm not feeling as good about this lynch as I could be.

However, my gut is telling me to hammer.

I'll regret this later, maybe... stupid Gut.

VOTE: Sheep

Unless you think this is pre-acting, I don't know why I would show doubt about hammering my own teammate.

Yes, this could easily be acting.

[Lowell]

Trying to figure out where everyone is right now. Unknown probes fitz a little

Havingfitz, what makes you suspect me less than Terata?

Then fitz says something about unknown just seeming town to him (not quoted here). Unknown responds...

Glad that feeling is mutual.

...in agreement, but then...

Lol I forgot how to vote.

VOTE: Havingfitz

... he follows terata's (the guy unknown and fitz agreed they suspected more than each other) suggestion to vote fitz a few posts later. "Sometimes players change their minds!" arguments notwithstanding, this looks opportunistic.

[Lowell]

I'm back. Won't be here exactly at deadline so we'll need to settle before then.

[Lowell]

I need to get another word in before hammer, either way. Hold on.

[Lowell]

Is that hammer?

Still not totally sold on terata-scum, but I'm feeling like I'm never going to be based on my D1 biases so if he's scum it's just as well someone else did it.

Let me get in quick before close in case this is still going and I die.

I liked fitz' case on terata, basically, though it looks a little reverse-engineered, I've liked his response to pressure.

If terata is claiming town there, then the last scum is probably Unknown>IaI>fitz.

[Lowell]

Honestly, it doesn't seem like either of you will believe me, but Havingfitz died for a possibility of a couple reasons.

1.) he started to question me being scum. You won't agree with this one as much because you think I'm scum but this is a possibility IMO.

2.) Lowell couldn't be killed, (this is if he's scum) and had to pick someone else to kill in replacement of him.

3.) IamInnocent (if he's scum) framed Lowell by killing Havingfitz in an attempt to guarentee his survival.

Atleast there was a kill, I was ready to auto skip because I thought there'd be a coward player.

I don't understand 3. Explain how keeping me alive "guarantees" IaI's survival?

And before this argument is attempted to be presented against me, I don't feel all that bad for hammering Terata even though they were Town. I was starting to believe they were Town a lot more, but at the end of the day it was me or them so I had to make a decision knowing I am Town and hoping they would be somehow scum.

Frankly I don't hold the terata vote against you (especially now that fitz flipped town). TBH when I the hammer I was sort of relieved. I was starting to think my townread on him was just D1 blinders, so I'm not sure I would have been able to cast the lynch vote were he scum.

I'm leaning Unknown as the last scum, but I'm in no way ready to vote. There are some things I need to look at, specifically wrt to fitz.

[Lowell]

Plus, me being alive over fitz seems like a bit of a set-up, considering my attacking unknown all day and fitz' relative townread on him.

[Lowell]

Well at some point the scummiest player needs to vote, and if a hammer does not occur, then it's up to the then confirmed town to figure who the scum is, the voter or votee.

I'd like to do one more reread focusing only on 4 slots:

Lowell's
Unknowns
Sheeps
Aliseas

Should be quick as I can skip the other posters and I already have votes captured.

IamInnocent, if you think I'm scum and that Lowell is Town why have you not voted me? That would have done what you want to accomplish.

I like this post from unknown.

[Lowell]

Lowell, if you're Town you actually really need to look at the game again and see why I am still scum. I tried to explain yesterday why I'm Town and I'm not sure if you are just ignoring it or if you are being stubborn. I don't see how I'm playing scummy.

Side note to both of you: if I'm scum why don't I kill Lowell? He's been scum-reading me all of yesterday and killing him wouldn't make me look bad because he was Town-read by everyone. There is no good reason.

The only thing I can think of here is that killing me puts the attention too obviously on you, whereas keeping me alive sets up some WIFOM. But I agree with you on its face it makes more sense for IaI to kill fitz than for you.

[Lowell]

@unknown, tell me why IaI is scum, then. Or if you think it's me, why is it me? You come out of the gate playing nothing but defense and it's hard not to think it's you.

[Lowell]

I'll look back, I may have misremembered.

[Lowell]

I'm here, will be gone for most of the weekend. If there's anything anyone needs let me know.

Offhand I'm still not quite buying Unknown. You can't buddy both of us.

[Lowell]

I'm here, will be gone for most of the weekend. If there's anything anyone needs let me know.

Offhand I'm still not quite buying Unknown. You can't buddy both of us.

[Lowell]

Wheme why not ECM?

POST 1709!!!

The vote count when this post was made (1709), and was in reference to Wheme's changed vote from ECM to Chaos in 1708:

ECM 3 votes
ChaosOmega 2 votes
Wheme 1 vote

So before Wheme changed his vote:

ECM 4 votes
ChaosOmega 1 votes
Wheme 1 vote

Interesting method for trying to divert attention away from your partner......UNLESS.....my slot is town, hmmmm.

Elaborate on this? I'm not quite seeing your point. You're saying Ali would have left your slot alone or what? We've seen Ali's willingness to bus (sheep) and 1v1 to kill VT.

[Lowell]

Also, I will vote first but realize that it makes no difference unless I choose to vote Lowell.

This is what I was pointing out. What scenario does this post make any sense unless you're trying to put out feelers as to who will vote with you.

Okay I said I'd be gone for a day. Now I am, I promise. Back on Sunday.

I'll have questions for both of you then. But I'm not going to get into it now in case Unknown decides to 1v1 me before then.

[Lowell]

Lowell, anything to say for what I just pointed out? You said you weren't sure who was scum, and yet you just said I would try to 1v1 you. Which means that one of us is scum. Which means that if you weren't sure I was scum and you were Town you wouldn't be saying that.

Uh, what? No, I said I thought you'd try to take advantage of me being gone to try to vote.

I haven't made my mind up as yet. When I know, you'll know.

[Lowell]

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT TERATA STARTED THE SHEEP WAGON AND SHEEP WAS OFF THE RADAR UNTIL SHE STARTED IT

Holy cow. You really are something, aren't you? If all it took was one player to say, "I vote Sheep instead," and the rest of the votes came flooding in without further deliberation, that means Sheep was already on the chopping block. It's not hard to understand tone.

Okay now you just get roped.
Terata scum after starting a flashwagon on Sheep AROUND DEADLINE?
REALLY?
REALLY?

You reading the same game I am? Because it was clear as day the lynch yesterday was between Lowell and Sheep before Terata weighed in. Some players bus, others defend

. I don't look to that to determine who is scum, since it varies by the person and by the game. I look at the individual, and WhemeStar and Terata both have incredibly scummy ISOs that I've already commented on.

And in what possible reason does scum!Terata have for bussing Sheep there?

What's kind of question is this? What reason do scum have to bus their mates in ANY game? It buys them longevity, it cuts ties with a mate they feel is a detriment to their team, and in some cases it earns them blind and stupid trust from others for what will probably be long enough for them to win. You either already know this and are looking to get most out of it or really are oblivious enough to press a ridiculous point like this.

Okay now you just get roped.
Terata scum after starting a flashwagon on Sheep AROUND DEADLINE?
REALLY?
REALLY?

You reading the same game I am? Because it was clear as day the lynch yesterday was between Lowell and Sheep before Terata weighed in. Some players bus, others defend. I don't look to that to determine who is scum, since it varies by the person and by the game. I look at the individual, and WhemeStar and Terata both have incredibly scummy ISOs that I've already commented on.

Two of ECM's final posts (italics mine). The top one looks a little too clever by half. Here is ECM interacting with Ali, who has just bussed sheep. And he's using this to argue terata (who also voted sheep) was scummy.

The second one, again, ECM tangling with Ali. Again this looks too cutesy. This looks like a "you attack while I white knight" kind of plan happening.

In general IaI has more to gain by keeping me alive than Unknown. And I'm not totally convinced that Unknown is the type of player to doublebus his first partner and let his second partner self-sacrifice.

[Lowell]

That was supposed to be in sequence. I'm bad at computers.

[Lowell]

Cool it. You need to be better if you're town. If you're scum it doesn't matter, flail away vote whoever you want. If you're town, a vote on me is game over, fullstop. And that will be on you, not me. If you're scum, I'd

rather

you vote me and make it IaI's problem and not mine.

I've played dozens of games on this site. Won a few, usually lose. I care about getting it right more than I care about winning. So if you need to panic-vote go for it, but give me time to figure out who is scum first.

[Lowell]

alright guys, i'm prob dying. lynch in ECM slot and fitz imo

this day should not drag on

I don't really care about finding two more town

it's probably ali+fitz

definitely not ali+gerry, so I found another town

unknown is proably town for trying to figure out if framer can exist

there. I solved it

Havingfitz, what makes you suspect me less than Terata?

I am leaning towards you just being a bad player. Not necessarily scummy. Voting you over Terata would feel more like I was opting for a policy lynch. Plus scum!Alisae leaving you alone to try and secure the win for scum (when his 1v1 was unnecessary) seems a bit of a reach. Also your posts D5 have felt town.

So here are the most recent deaths (excluding terata, which I'll get to). All point to ECM/IaI as scum or Unknown as town.

[Lowell]

Cooperative Sheep, Lynched Day 1,

Mafia Even Night Jailkeeper

[/b]

Hawk, Died Night 1,

Town Universal Backup

ChaosOmega, Lynched Day 2,

Town Tracker

WhemeStar, Died Night 2,

Town Odd Night Rolestopper

Fro99er, Lynched Day 3,

Vanilla Townie

Aj The Epic, Died Night 3,

Town Follower

Alisae, Lynched Day 4,

Mafia Goon

Gerryoat, Died Night 4,

Vanilla Townie

Terata, Lynched Day 5,

Vanilla Townie

HavingFitz, Died Night 5,

Vanilla Townie

Ali's move to kill frogger--to the extent it makes any sense at all--makes more sense from IaI's POV. In 1940 Frogger called me, terata, and unknown town and was pretty vocal about it. Unknown's behavior towards frogger was off, tonally, though. Not only for the certainty with which he says he "knew" Ali was lying, but just in general. Reads a bit like a bad attempt at white-knighting.

Gerrygoat kill makes more sense from Unknown's POV. Gerry was one of the people NOT on the sheep wagon D1, and several ppl were operating under the notion that sheep wouldn't have TWO bussers on his wagon. Unknown would have more to gain from putting more targets on people like IaI and fitz who weren't on the sheep wagon.

fitz kill makes more sense from IaI. He had been pushing terata (and to a lesser extent, IaI) when he was alive, whereas I was pushing hard on unknown.

[Lowell]

@unknown, I asked you about why you didn't try to convince anyone to vote Ali instead of frogger if you were so sure, and you said you didn't have time, more or less. I looked back, and here's a small sample of the posts before frogger died (and this was just when he got to L-1). You interacted with him several times and basically did nothing. Why not?

unknown just vote me.

you're town, it's fine. nobody blame unkown for hammering me

If it's 7v4, I can see why Alisae would specifically try to get rid of you. They could be trying to drive the powerful and strongest town to a lynch so that they only need one more lynch. If this theory is true, it leads me to believe that Havingfitz is just stupid instead because I doubt they'd pull something like this off if the other scum was Havingfitz.

Or maybe I'm overthinking things. I don't feel like hammering right now though.

Also, if you knew me then you would know I'm incredibly stubborn and you won't get me to hammer you by simply asking.

Also, if you knew me then you would know I'm incredibly stubborn and you won't get me to hammer you by simply asking.

hammer me

as a human to a human

to put me out of my misery

I hate pity.

Frogger I don't think we have enough smart people left right now.

VOTE: Frog

Does your vote even count against yourself? Lol

AJ I'll love you forever if you hammer me

This is depressing.

VOTE: frogger

Die frogscum die! Hammer!

Even in the slight chance that Frog is scum I wouldn't feel bad about not voting.

It looks like Ali tried to sacrifice himself to kill frogger and then, oh damn, frogger actually townread you so oops, sacrifice was pointless, and you basically couldn't decide what to do. 1972 in particular. Like you didn't want to out-and-out say "frogger is town you guyz!" bc then Ali sacrificed himself for nothing, but you didn't want to hammer either because he started townreading you. Even on a short day you could have done more to prolong the day (beg for no hammer until you have chance to speak, or something) or make arguments. You did neither, even though I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO HEAR THEM SINCE FROGGER TOWNREAD ME FROM DAY 2.

[Lowell]

Why was your only post a hammer vote that day btw? I don't remember if I've asked you this but I really think it was terrible.

It made no sense that Ali would sacrifice himself for VT. So I assumed PR must be true and frogger was just BSing his way out of lynch and what's the point of waiting. Better question is why you were so sure frogger was lying. You saw Ali/Frogger and said to yourself, "oh hey Ali is scum and trying to sacrifice himself to take out a VT"? How could you possibly have reached that conclusion as town? Keep in mind I ALSO townread frogger most of the game, and he townread me, so "but I townread him!" does not make sense as an answer.

If I'm scum, why would I hammer my teammate, then put Chaos at a difficult position, but then not hammer Frogger? Because I'm Town, and Frogger was my strongest town-read all game.

I do remember the time around Hammer. My regular schedule is to wake up, go to school, and come home. I never got home before he was hammered.

Again, frogger was a townread of mine, too, so I'm not sure what your point is here. The fact that he was universally townread must have been the REASON Ali sacrificed himself, but that doesn't make your reaction make any less sense. I'll take you at your word that IRL you weren't around at hammer, but you did have time to weigh in before then.

Lowell, I really hate how you keep assuming that I'm going to vote you. IAI was the one who tried to force me into voting, and I still didn't do that. So, I've never expressed my desire to vote early and won't do that. I was the complained about a 14 hour day if you hadn't forgotten.

I don't assume you'll vote for me. But I did fear losing if you're town and I didn't even get to come back and discuss.

[Lowell]

I'm leaning towards IaI, though I don't have the smoking gun. Unknown, don't vote me.

@IaI, above you ask why Ali would kill frogger if everyone else suspected you. But frogger suspected you too, so if Ali thought frogger was the main driving force for town then maybe it makes more sense than it being Unknown (who, despite his strange behavior, was townread by frogger), or especially me (bc no fucking way I'd let Ali kill my biggest fan). I'm not saying it makes total sense for anyone, but at least slightly moreso in your case. If everyone was scum reading you you had to do something. Also, I'm not totally buying Unknown keeping me alive over fitz. A fitz/unknown/IaI makes a lot more sense. So either he's WIFOMing me or it just is what it looks like. You being scum also fits with my way way back theory that no way would both scum bus on D1. I got off that a bit with frogger's, then gerry's, death, but it still seems more likely than a double-bus.

Tonally, Unknown is feeling a bit more town. I think if he had the forethought to set up a WIFOM by keeping me alive he probably would have come out with something stronger than "OMG you guyz won't believe me but I'm town!"

That said, I'm not confident enough to cast the first vote. I'd prefer someone else do it, even if it's against me, so that it won't be my problem.

[Lowell]

I'm wishy washy because I can't decide. Figuring this game out is too hard. If you guys are so sure just go ahead and vote me and see what happens.

[Lowell]

Why are you so wish washy on everything too for that matter?

I understand being undecided but it's not like you don't want to form an opinion and are waiting to see who sides with you the most.

I'm inherently, almost pathologically, suspicious of anyone who agrees with me. Thanks, mafiascum.

So, no.

[Lowell]

To vote me you have to believe I'd want frogger dead (at the expense of my own teammate), that I basically wanted to kill everyone who townread me, and that BOTH wagons on D1 were on scum. Find me a time that has ever happened. But I'm always wishy-washy at the end, so if that's the scum-tell you need then go ahead and vote.

@IaI, I agree in principle that Ali's sacrifice doesn't really make that much sense, but as far as which of the three of us it MAYBE makes some sense for, that's where I'm coming to you. Tell me why Ali would sacrifice himself for me or for unknown if it's not you. It happened.

[Lowell]

@2467, ter was hard townreading me, more than anyone else. So getting rid of him makes sense if your next plan was to kill fitz. From Unknown's POV, he could have done it just to set up the WIFOM. What good does keeping ter alive do either of you? I guess unknown could have kept ter alive, then NKed me, then assumed ter read him as town over you/fitz.

If you know who you want to vote then vote. I sense you jumping on unknown's interest in voting me but not trying to get to excited. I'd rather you say what you're thinking, because asking us for our thoughts and offering cagey responses is not cool.

[Lowell]

ebwop Yesterday I flipped this game on it's head when I said, it can't be me, it can't be fitz

for the reasons mentioned above ("the last teammate needed to win the game, aka, be somewho was universally town read")

I agree... I think. But why frogger?

[Lowell]

So where was frogger leading then? That's why I keep coming back to you. He knew I was town, and at least said he was leaning town on unknown by the end.

[Lowell]

But I see what you're saying, I think-- why not have you 1v1 frogger instead of Ali (if that's what you were going to do) and save Ali as last scum if that's what you guys had decided to do? Maybe.

[Lowell]

If you think it's me you might as well just vote. Unknown will hammer and it'll be mercifully over. He's obviously just sitting back waiting for something to happen.

[Lowell]

Well I'm not as sure on that. For sure he leaned town in his final moments, but I'd have to read back before that.

[Lowell]

Basically frogger called you (ECM) scum before the 1v1 and didn't mention unknown until the end. So you look worse there. But unknown looks worse DURING the 1v1, as I mentioned.

[Lowell]

VOTE: unknown

[Lowell]

Still, I'm going to kill Ali for doing this to me.

[Lowell]

You too. Fun game, everyone.

[Lowell]

Yes, Ali did go rogue on me. Honestly we'd have been better off without daytalk for all the good it did us. Also,

Vote Count #1.20:

Cooperative Sheep [LYNCHED] Terata, Fro99er, Hawk, Alisae, Whemestar, Lowell, Unknown1234

Lowell [L-2] Aj The Epic, Cooperative Sheep, Havingfitz, EcMitchell, ChaosOmega
Alisae [L-6] Gerryoat

Not Voting (0):

That was some scary shit.

[Lowell]

No.

[Lowell]

I'm also okay with opening scumchat. not much there tbh except us all talking about how fucked we were D1.

Is deadchat open?