Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[Lowell]

@unknown, I asked you about why you didn't try to convince anyone to vote Ali instead of frogger if you were so sure, and you said you didn't have time, more or less. I looked back, and here's a small sample of the posts before frogger died (and this was just when he got to L-1). You interacted with him several times and basically did nothing. Why not?

unknown just vote me.

you're town, it's fine. nobody blame unkown for hammering me

If it's 7v4, I can see why Alisae would specifically try to get rid of you. They could be trying to drive the powerful and strongest town to a lynch so that they only need one more lynch. If this theory is true, it leads me to believe that Havingfitz is just stupid instead because I doubt they'd pull something like this off if the other scum was Havingfitz.

Or maybe I'm overthinking things. I don't feel like hammering right now though.

Also, if you knew me then you would know I'm incredibly stubborn and you won't get me to hammer you by simply asking.

Also, if you knew me then you would know I'm incredibly stubborn and you won't get me to hammer you by simply asking.

hammer me

as a human to a human

to put me out of my misery

I hate pity.

Frogger I don't think we have enough smart people left right now.

VOTE: Frog

Does your vote even count against yourself? Lol

AJ I'll love you forever if you hammer me

This is depressing.

VOTE: frogger

Die frogscum die! Hammer!

Even in the slight chance that Frog is scum I wouldn't feel bad about not voting.

It looks like Ali tried to sacrifice himself to kill frogger and then, oh damn, frogger actually townread you so oops, sacrifice was pointless, and you basically couldn't decide what to do. 1972 in particular. Like you didn't want to out-and-out say "frogger is town you guyz!" bc then Ali sacrificed himself for nothing, but you didn't want to hammer either because he started townreading you. Even on a short day you could have done more to prolong the day (beg for no hammer until you have chance to speak, or something) or make arguments. You did neither, even though I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO HEAR THEM SINCE FROGGER TOWNREAD ME FROM DAY 2.

[Unknown1234]

Lowell, I really hate how you keep assuming that I'm going to vote you. IAI was the one who tried to force me into voting, and I still didn't do that. So, I've never expressed my desire to vote early and won't do that. I was the complained about a 14 hour day if you hadn't forgotten.

[Unknown1234]

Frogger had been Town-reading me all game. I have no idea why you assume that he only Town-read me before he died.

He also Town-read Uzi.

Gerry kill from me makes no sense. One of his last posts was him saying that IAI/Fitz was the last scum, then died saying "wait! I know who the last scum is" and never told us.

I don't understand what you're saying. Unless you assume getting rid of Frogger, Gerry, and Fitz (people who weren't scum-reading me at the time of their deaths) then you aren't thinking correctly.

Frogger was suspicious of EC iirc for a long time. All of the kills make more sense for him more than me.

[Unknown1234]

Why was your only post a hammer vote that day btw? I don't remember if I've asked you this but I really think it was terrible.

[Unknown1234]

If I'm scum, why would I hammer my teammate, then put Chaos at a difficult position, but then not hammer Frogger? Because I'm Town, and Frogger was my strongest town-read all game.

I do remember the time around Hammer. My regular schedule is to wake up, go to school, and come home. I never got home before he was hammered.

[Unknown1234]

Also second half of #2450 suggests that I'm scum again even though you haven't solved the game.

If you are town you need to stop assuming I'm scum and then say you aren't convinced. It's very scummy.

[Lowell]

Why was your only post a hammer vote that day btw? I don't remember if I've asked you this but I really think it was terrible.

It made no sense that Ali would sacrifice himself for VT. So I assumed PR must be true and frogger was just BSing his way out of lynch and what's the point of waiting. Better question is why you were so sure frogger was lying. You saw Ali/Frogger and said to yourself, "oh hey Ali is scum and trying to sacrifice himself to take out a VT"? How could you possibly have reached that conclusion as town? Keep in mind I ALSO townread frogger most of the game, and he townread me, so "but I townread him!" does not make sense as an answer.

If I'm scum, why would I hammer my teammate, then put Chaos at a difficult position, but then not hammer Frogger? Because I'm Town, and Frogger was my strongest town-read all game.

I do remember the time around Hammer. My regular schedule is to wake up, go to school, and come home. I never got home before he was hammered.

Again, frogger was a townread of mine, too, so I'm not sure what your point is here. The fact that he was universally townread must have been the REASON Ali sacrificed himself, but that doesn't make your reaction make any less sense. I'll take you at your word that IRL you weren't around at hammer, but you did have time to weigh in before then.

Lowell, I really hate how you keep assuming that I'm going to vote you. IAI was the one who tried to force me into voting, and I still didn't do that. So, I've never expressed my desire to vote early and won't do that. I was the complained about a 14 hour day if you hadn't forgotten.

I don't assume you'll vote for me. But I did fear losing if you're town and I didn't even get to come back and discuss.

[I Am Innocent]

Frogger had been Town-reading me all game. I have no idea why you assume that he only Town-read me before he died.

He also Town-read Uzi.

Gerry kill from me makes no sense. One of his last posts was him saying that IAI/Fitz was the last scum, then died saying "wait! I know who the last scum is" and never told us.

I don't understand what you're saying. Unless you assume getting rid of Frogger, Gerry, and Fitz (people who weren't scum-reading me at the time of their deaths) then you aren't thinking correctly.

Frogger was suspicious of EC iirc for a long time. All of the kills make more sense for him more than me.

Okay let's review the list:

Gerry you said was leaning towards Fitz/IAI
You were leaning towards Fitz/IAI
Terata was leaning towards Fitz/IAI
Lowell has been suspicious of my slot for most of the game

So why did Alisea go 1 vs 1 with Frogger when everyone and their mom was suspecting Alisea's last teammate (assuming I'm the last scum)?

It

Does

Not

Add

Up

!

Factor in the two night targets on my slot, and you really think it was Goon/Goon/Even Night JKer (what are they likely to get, 1, maybe 2 shots on average in a game) against all this town power???

If the town player of you recognizes these two facts, we got a 50/50 shot in winning this. Yes puts the pressure on me, but I'm pretty sure the scum of you and Alisea thought you had it in the bag with Fitz and me pretty much being guaranteed to be the last two mislynches. Then again, you probably didn't see me turning that theory upside down and forcing scum to kill Fitz.

For the record, I came across something I previously hadn't quoted but it is probably going to be the dealbreaker on which way I vote. I want to see where both of you are at before I disclose tho.

[Unknown1234]

I acknowledge the posts but I'm busy so I'll respond later. Leaning on voting Lowell ATM regardless of what was just said.

[Lowell]

I'm leaning towards IaI, though I don't have the smoking gun. Unknown, don't vote me.

@IaI, above you ask why Ali would kill frogger if everyone else suspected you. But frogger suspected you too, so if Ali thought frogger was the main driving force for town then maybe it makes more sense than it being Unknown (who, despite his strange behavior, was townread by frogger), or especially me (bc no fucking way I'd let Ali kill my biggest fan). I'm not saying it makes total sense for anyone, but at least slightly moreso in your case. If everyone was scum reading you you had to do something. Also, I'm not totally buying Unknown keeping me alive over fitz. A fitz/unknown/IaI makes a lot more sense. So either he's WIFOMing me or it just is what it looks like. You being scum also fits with my way way back theory that no way would both scum bus on D1. I got off that a bit with frogger's, then gerry's, death, but it still seems more likely than a double-bus.

Tonally, Unknown is feeling a bit more town. I think if he had the forethought to set up a WIFOM by keeping me alive he probably would have come out with something stronger than "OMG you guyz won't believe me but I'm town!"

That said, I'm not confident enough to cast the first vote. I'd prefer someone else do it, even if it's against me, so that it won't be my problem.

[I Am Innocent]

@IaI, above you ask why Ali would kill frogger if everyone else suspected you. But frogger suspected you too

Okay, then why trade one vs one AT ALL??? Why not continue "bussing me" like Alisea did Day 2 and get town cred? Because going 1 vs 1 with Frogger and leaving me to win the game DOES.NOT.MAKE.SENSE.

Why do you continue to ignore this fact? Why do you not even talk about the points of my slot being investigated twice with zero return?

Also, why do you say in the same post: "Unknown, don't vote me." & "I'd prefer someone else do it, even if it's against me, so that it won't be my problem."

[Unknown1234]

That's my main issue with him today specifically, he is incredibly inconsistent with what he says.

[Unknown1234]

Why are you so wish washy on everything too for that matter?

[Unknown1234]

Why are you so wish washy on everything too for that matter?

I understand being undecided but it's not like you don't want to form an opinion and are waiting to see who sides with you the most.

[Lowell]

I'm wishy washy because I can't decide. Figuring this game out is too hard. If you guys are so sure just go ahead and vote me and see what happens.

[Lowell]

Why are you so wish washy on everything too for that matter?

I understand being undecided but it's not like you don't want to form an opinion and are waiting to see who sides with you the most.

I'm inherently, almost pathologically, suspicious of anyone who agrees with me. Thanks, mafiascum.

So, no.

[Lowell]

To vote me you have to believe I'd want frogger dead (at the expense of my own teammate), that I basically wanted to kill everyone who townread me, and that BOTH wagons on D1 were on scum. Find me a time that has ever happened. But I'm always wishy-washy at the end, so if that's the scum-tell you need then go ahead and vote.

@IaI, I agree in principle that Ali's sacrifice doesn't really make that much sense, but as far as which of the three of us it MAYBE makes some sense for, that's where I'm coming to you. Tell me why Ali would sacrifice himself for me or for unknown if it's not you. It happened.

[I Am Innocent]

@IaI, I agree in principle that Ali's sacrifice doesn't really make that much sense, but as far as which of the three of us it MAYBE makes some sense for, that's where I'm coming to you. Tell me why Ali would sacrifice himself for me or for unknown if it's not you. It happened.

Because who was scumreading you or Unknown prior to the Alisea gambit? Few if any right? The key being, Alisea wasn't going to last more than two days when making that gambit. So the last teammate needed to win the game, aka, be somewho was universally town read.

Frogger dies, still need 2 mislynches
Alisea dies, still need 2 mislynches

Guess who is left....2 people most if not all people were scumreading.....Fitz (flipped town) and me. The scum of unknown or you were certainly sure to win with easy flips over Fitz/myself.

But Alisea and teammate probably underestimated me. Yesterday I flipped this game on it's head when I said, it can't be me, it can't be fitz***. This was after Terata and unknown both coming in and stating they think the last scum is one of us (fitz/myself).

***Question for the town player of you two, why would scum IAI shoot down an easy mislynch of fitz and go out and build a "fake case" on Terata? Why not save that for LyLo after fitz was mislynched?

[I Am Innocent]

ebwop Yesterday I flipped this game on it's head when I said, it can't be me, it can't be fitz

for the reasons mentioned above ("the last teammate needed to win the game, aka, be somewho was universally town read")

[Lowell]

@2467, ter was hard townreading me, more than anyone else. So getting rid of him makes sense if your next plan was to kill fitz. From Unknown's POV, he could have done it just to set up the WIFOM. What good does keeping ter alive do either of you? I guess unknown could have kept ter alive, then NKed me, then assumed ter read him as town over you/fitz.

If you know who you want to vote then vote. I sense you jumping on unknown's interest in voting me but not trying to get to excited. I'd rather you say what you're thinking, because asking us for our thoughts and offering cagey responses is not cool.

[Lowell]

ebwop Yesterday I flipped this game on it's head when I said, it can't be me, it can't be fitz

for the reasons mentioned above ("the last teammate needed to win the game, aka, be somewho was universally town read")

I agree... I think. But why frogger?

[I Am Innocent]

ebwop Yesterday I flipped this game on it's head when I said, it can't be me, it can't be fitz

for the reasons mentioned above ("the last teammate needed to win the game, aka, be somewho was universally town read")

I agree... I think. But why frogger?

Not sure I ever believe scum but this was Alisea's last post:

Frogger was the only one who could lead things and he had to go.

[I Am Innocent]

If you know who you want to vote then vote. I sense you jumping on unknown's interest in voting me but not trying to get to excited. I'd rather you say what you're thinking, because asking us for our thoughts and offering cagey responses is not cool.

I do know who I want to vote. I promise it is legit, I'll share the reason and even vote first once I hear commitments from both of you. And I'll provide the post that goes along with that reason...it is one I haven't shared with you and when you two see it you'll know I wasn't blowing smoke at this point.

My final thoughts, I'm town, Alisea leaving the game in scum IAI's hands is just crazy. I hope the town player of you two can come to grips with that, because if not, a vote my way is a loss. I get it, my predecessor played like crap, and I'm not going to lie, I honestly was 80% sure that Terata was the last scum. I went all in and was wrong, so if town loses I'll take the lion's share of the blame. All I will say is if say Fitz had been lynched the previous day, this game would have been over days ago cause I would have voted Terata in my opening post LyLo, and scum would have hammered.

So once you two commit, I'll share.

[Lowell]

So where was frogger leading then? That's why I keep coming back to you. He knew I was town, and at least said he was leaning town on unknown by the end.

[Lowell]

But I see what you're saying, I think-- why not have you 1v1 frogger instead of Ali (if that's what you were going to do) and save Ali as last scum if that's what you guys had decided to do? Maybe.