Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

[Almost50]

Alrighty, buys and girls. I've joined in as a replacement to try and save your miserable @r$e$. That said, don't expect me to post anything worthy within the next 48 hours. I need to read the game for myself (and NO, a tl;dr won't do. Thank you very much).

[Almost50]

I've done some skimming (and skipping) before I totally fell asleep yesterday, and I have a couple of things to announce:

1- I'm totally illiterate flavour-wise, so anything flavour-related will fall on deaf ears.
2- This wagon on zakk is really bad. I realize it's an easy thing to say since zakk did flip town, but seriously guys.

And now, I'll start catching up for real.

[Almost50]

At 50:

Almost there

You guys have crystal balls or what?

55% caught up. By now I wouldn't want to lynch: House/SlySly/Ankamius/Titus/PeregrineV ever. I'm not going to comment on the two dead slots either. Back to reading.

[Almost50]

Post #2763 opened up my eyes, and -as a result- my NO LYNCH pool has been adjusted to Giovanni il Pellegrino/Ankamius/PeregrineV/Andrius.

If I had to speculate on two teams (I'm well aware there was only 1 NK) then I'd put Creature/SirCakez/mcMenno/Not Chara on one side vs Titus/SlySly/Leonshade/Narna on the other. I have 3 “wild cards” in Nahdia/Shiro/Maxous though, but I'm not going after either of them until I', proven wrong on the original 8 suspects either by evidence it's single ball (at which point the Titus team is likely town), by night action (investigation result) or something relatively as strong an evidence/proof.

I slightly disagree with zakk (RIP) on the "scum don't want to lynch opposing scum" premise, as they appear to have been taking bouts at each other (reporting from the battle ground here on page #111. I'm also getting anxious here to see how D1 ended in the lynch of MoI when he was one of the universal town reads AND no serious wagon on him for the opening 2774 posts (currently has NO VOTES on him).

I'll probably stop reading somewhere between posts 2800-3000 today, which means there is a fair chance I'd be fully caught up in the next 24 hours.

P.S. You're all NUTS for posting that many. It's like a billion monkeys had been given a billion keyboards and access to this thread to randomly type whatever they pleased. HAVE MERCY!

[Almost50]

hello, Almost! nice to see you. thanks for replacing in.

Nice seeing you too, "my other head".

I thought A50 was already in the game for some reason lmao

maybe it's time my ghost haunts you like yours haunts me.

rip you replaced into a scum slot ((

Yeah, nice try. Creature might get annoyed though by you trying to mimic him.

Not Chara, Narna, Firebringer, Creature,

Gamma Emerald

I'm in the bolded slot now. Let's be unbearably annoying to each other.

does anybody remember who were zakk's scum reads apart from Magna?

Town Block: Almost50, Giovanni il Pellegrino, SirCakez, Nahdia, SlySly, McMenno,
Scum in: Nosferatu, SnarkySnowman, massive, Firebringer, Titus, Not Chara, PeregrineV, Shiro,

But I wouldn't be blindly sheeping zakk if I were you.

P.S. Of course, I've changed the slot names to their current occupiers.

snarky is town bruh

based on...?

i'm really not liking his reads

The mere fact that he does have reads and is engaging is enough a tell he's town.

[Almost50]

If I was scum, I would hammer.

I'll saves ya the troubles.

VOTE: McMenno

No one is hammering Menno because the scum are already there.

I've just did. Are you shooting me tonight?? (Hint: DON'T!)

Not on McMenno today but voted McMenno yesterday: Creature, Firebringer, SirCakez -- all three on the Magna lynch.

Creature and Cakez ARE McMenno's buddies. I'm not sure about Fire, but I don't think he's scum.

I was also voted by gamma emerald before the magna wagon happened

and he's back on you today .. at least is spirit it's still him voting you.

Inb4 I'm NK'd (by either side): McMenno flips scum = Lynch Cakez & Creature. If -by any chance- he flips town; I'd need to reconsider my current reads, but I think Narna would be the way to go. Whatever you do though, don't lynch any of Giovanni il Pellegrino, Ankamius, PeregrineV, Andrius or SnarkySnowman. Titus becomes a good lynch ONLY if AT LEAST TWO of Narna, Leonshade & SlySly flip scum.

@Almost, Who did you replace? You're giving me scumvibes.

Gamma Emerald, and I intend to be deliberately annoying in this game. Watch this:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: McMenno

[Almost50]

I think I'll go get a bite now then get some sleep. I can smell a night kill coming my way, but -in all honesty- I don't give dog's fart, as it will bite you in the "rear side".

[Almost50]

I'm actually night 7 coroner

This claim was part of why I hammered. I already scum read you HARD, but I also see no reason what-so-ever to claim that. If you're town, you're telling scum to shoot you before that. If you're scum, you're telling the town NOT to lynch you for 6 more days, AND telling the other scum team not to bother shooting you in the near future (next 3-4 days) either. Then again, if you're scum you KNOW which member of your team shot whom, and you could either tell the truth (if they've already been lynched or just about to .. i.e. bussing) or can LIE and blame it on on either someone who did flip or even a living town player you failed to NK.

All possibilities lead to this preemptive claim coming from scum.

[Almost50]

final scumz
02 SirCakez
03 Giovanni il Pellegrino
07 Titus
13 Not Chara
18 Narna

I can't see il Pellegrino as scum, nor Titus w/o either Sly or Leon is addition to Narna. Furthermore, my PM strongly hints multiple killers. In hindsight it may have been a reference to there being a Town Vig though.

[Almost50]

I don't agree with a Nahdia shot, i'm not sure what the problem with them here is, i think they're town.

The only reason I'm not fully town reading Nahdia is I know she's capable as scum. Other than that I cannot really say I want her lynched the way she claimed her JK. (Hint: I don't see a scum motive behind claiming a failed JK action on the NK, and Jailkeeper is always a risky false claim).

[Almost50]

I'm actually night 7 coroner

This claim was part of why I hammered. I already scum read you HARD, but I also see no reason what-so-ever to claim that. If you're town, you're telling scum to shoot you before that. If you're scum, you're telling the town NOT to lynch you for 6 more days, AND telling the other scum team not to bother shooting you in the near future (next 3-4 days) either. Then again, if you're scum you KNOW which member of your team shot whom, and you could either tell the truth (if they've already been lynched or just about to .. i.e. bussing) or can LIE and blame it on on either someone who did flip or even a living town player you failed to NK.

All possibilities lead to this preemptive claim coming from scum.

if you

read the fucking thread

, you'll see that I claimed night

8

coronor,

not

night 7 (which I am). my plan was to reveal this fact on day 8 with a result, before scum had a chance to nightkill me. of course this didn't work out

I did read the original version and THAT'S PART OF WHY I WAS READY TO HAMMER YOU. You only adjusted the claim to N7 AFTER I HAD ALREADY HAMMERED YOU.

Now if that was your plan, why THE HELL did you claim AT ALL? Why couldn't you just KEEP QUIET and wait? What good is it to announce "I can't do shit for the next few days, bit I will eventually be of some value."??

You see, we do have a Vig who claims up to THREE shots a night. We also have AT LEAST one scum kill per night (I won't even include the fact I think it's 2), then we have the day lynch.

One average, I'll assume 1 lynch + 2-3 night kills will go through. That's 7 lynches and 12-18 NKs before you could even act BEFORE N7. 19-25 players dead (and that's ASSUMING only 1-2 Vig shots go through and NO SECOND SCUM KILL). Now add the N7 kills (because you still could've been killed before you outed your result), and you get 20-27 players dead. In other words your role -if you're being truthful- was meant to be used in LyLo or close enough....

So, I ask you again: WHAT GOOD WAS IT TO CLAIM YOUR ROLE AT ALL?

[Almost50]

18 hours into the day and we already have a hammer??? Now that IS annoying.

[Almost50]

Not gonna lie, I don't mind the short day for once

I do. I didn't get to as much as take a sniff of the baddies today.

[Almost50]

Maxous and Giovanni first. Maybe Almost50 too.

I'm enjoying this .. A LOT. Wanna do 1-on-1? Or would you rather shoot me at night?

And as for Narna; if he says something like "I'm being death lawyered" it most probably stems from him knowing there is a death lawyer in the game. We thus cannot be 100% positive all flipped players were town. After all, this is explicitly a bastard gamer, is it not?

[Almost50]

Oh Giovanni is in the Yume/House slot? That can die too.

Hey, Cakez. Can I die too? What if I ask nicely?

[Almost50]

if that's legit im going to scream

This is usually where I start drinking vodka. Some wonder why I am not lost in a back alley.

Can I have a bloody mary, please?

[Almost50]

Yey Leonshade is town

You know what? I've come to realize everybody's town. the way to win here is to No Lynch and No Kill for 2 successive cycles.

[Almost50]

Narna has been declared ineligible for the Day 3 lynch. All votes on Narna have been discarded.

Day 3 continues.

[Almost50]

Maxous and Giovanni first. Maybe Almost50 too.

I'm enjoying this .. A LOT. Wanna do 1-on-1? Or would you rather shoot me at night?

And as for Narna; if he says something like "I'm being death lawyered" it most probably stems from him knowing there is a death lawyer in the game. We thus cannot be 100% positive all flipped players were town. After all, this is explicitly a bastard gamer, is it not?

Mod said no lies.

This isn't a "lie". This is the action/effect of an in-game role. It's no more a lie than a GF returning an innocent or a Miller returning a guilty, IMHO.

[Almost50]

Maxous and Giovanni first. Maybe Almost50 too.

I'm enjoying this .. A LOT. Wanna do 1-on-1? Or would you rather shoot me at night?

And as for Narna; if he says something like "I'm being death lawyered" it most probably stems from him knowing there is a death lawyer in the game

. We thus cannot be 100% positive all flipped players were town. After all, this is explicitly a bastard gamer, is it not?

Hello? Have we played in the same game before?

What's that even supposed to me?

[Almost50]

vanilla cop is the most suspicious claim here. almost certain this is role madness.

So? Wake's Role Madness had a Vanilla Cop AND a Neapolitan too.

[Almost50]

All the town roles had severe negative utility in some way.

True that. It's annoying as hell. It's like Town PRs are supposed to be the underdog.

[Almost50]

You guys tell me when you've either reached mutual consent or have managed to put up a nice tidy strong case on anyone for me to vote.

Oh, and someone needs to check me to verify I have no night action. I don't care if that'd be a Tracker, a Role Cop, a Motion Detector, or whatever else there might be in this setup. I came in with the intention to be as annoying as possible, and -instead- I ended up bored ansd annoyed myself!

[Almost50]

You guys tell me when you've either reached mutual consent or have managed to put up a nice tidy strong case on anyone for me to vote.

Oh, and someone needs to check me to verify I have no night action. I don't care if that'd be a Tracker, a Role Cop, a Motion Detector, or whatever else there might be in this setup. I came in with the intention to be as annoying as possible, and -instead- I ended up bored ansd annoyed myself!

Why you random claim no action?

You are aware that I am outed Vanilla cop?

Yes, and I'm not claiming VT either. I'm just saying I have no active night powers, and my passive won't kill you either.

@Snarky:

Why not? What's the scum motive behind my previous post?

[Almost50]

this is town Almost, i'm pretty sure. don't waste a night action on him.

Oh, dang!

I totally forgot you were in the game. I had better try a new trick if I ever intend to be annoying still.

[Almost50]

almost, ISO me and search Titus. tell me what you think. i don't remember if you have concrete reads on either of us, remind me.

First things first: I'd be annoying for as long as I'm in the game, and beyond.

As for Titus; I do have a solid read of her being Town if this is single-ball. If MB I had her as scum, but I'm not that sure anymore.

As for you, you keep bouncing back and forth between a town lean and the null zone. I had you as a scum lean earlier, but for some odd reason you're not acting the same way as I would expect scum you. Only just not obv!Towning it either.

Right now I'm taking a great interest in sorting out Cakez. I've never been good at reading him, but I'm not going to give up until I do get a solid read. Right now he's a strong scum lean. Creature is right above him, and Narna is my 3rd scum read, but he is off the list for today.

The question is NOT whom I'm town reading and whom I'm scum reading. The question is do I have enough confidence to wage a war on someone or to die defending another? The answer is definitely NO. I feel like it's my first game and that I have no clue of how to scum hunt beyond gut reads. Something is off in this game and I cannot seem to pinpoint it, which is why I'm more annoyed at myself than I am annoying to you.

[Almost50]

I seriously cannot get a grip on the game.

You're not alone. Trust me on this.

[Almost50]

@Chara:

I also had this as MB for a while, but then there have not been enough NKs to support it.

I have played an off-site bastard game before which had a similar feel of this one, with the mod also posting cryptic in-game messages. It was coming directly from them though at mid-day. It was a scum team + SK with GOO implemented and whoever got in contact with the Goo at night became the Goo instead (they actually swapped their roles), so if something similar is going on one cannot ever have solid reads because at one point you would be scum, then you would become the Goo, then you will become Town investigator .. and so on.

Btw, in THAT game, the Goo was NOT scum in itself, but still it was anti-town as hell, obviously.

[Almost50]

OK.. TIME OUT, EVERYONE. What if we flash wagon Leon today, force him to govern himself, then we lynch someone else, but we KNOW we can lynch Leon/Narna tomorrow if we still feel like it?

P-edit:

Snarky is NOT scum in this game. FGS, this is the most active game I have seen him play.

[Almost50]

A mass claim would be so much easier and efficient.

Rrraf! (Translation: I very much agree. Let's do it, mate. You're my hero. I will follow you to hell and back on this one.)

Also; woof woof woof .. grrrr .. WOOF. (Translation: *Sigh*)

[Almost50]

You replaced in and have the chance to give fresh eyes to a game in which you are freshly reading?

Why are you not doing so?

Partially because I'm brain dead and don't want to get a headache trying to overload it. The other part is I wouldn't be annoying if I did play the game in the manner you'd expect me to, and this is one rare chance for me to be REALLY annoying and get away with it too.

[Almost50]

In post 4735, Almost50 wrote:
Right now I'm taking a great interest in sorting out Cakez. I've never been good at reading him, but I'm not going to give up until I do get a solid read. Right now he's a strong scum lean. Creature is right above him, and Narna is my 3rd scum read, but he is off the list for today.


I'm interested in your reasoning for this

As Firebringer would put it: "Reasoning is for scumz". Sriously though; you're SIRCAKEZ. I'd lynch you for lols and giggles.

[Almost50]

It's such a remarkably stupid scum play that I feel it is literally insulting him to think it was one.

I'll try to make sense for once in this game then I'm going to go back to my usual, OK?

Discarding a scummy behaviour as too scummy to come from scum is exactly what scum!Me may do in an attempt to rescue a scum buddy. In other words, there is no such thing as "too scummy to come from scum" bc it's all a case of WIFOM.

1:logic /off
2:annoyance /on
3:loop 2:

[Almost50]

Hey Almost, Can I see reads from you?

Currently I'm working on several screenplays simultaneously.

- "The Unlynchables" (Starring: Giovanni il Pellegrino, Ankamius, PeregrineV, Andrius & SnarkySnowman)
- "Clueless" (Starring: Maxous, Shiro, Titus, Not Chara, SlySly & Leonshade)
- "Spooks" (Starring: massive & Nahdia)
and..
- "Drop Dead, Scum" (Starring: Firebringer, Narna, Creature with a special appearance by SirCakez)

[Almost50]

Almost50, break that loop with a vote.

What's the point? None of the 4 people I'm willing to lynch is being voted by a single other player. I'm not going to vote any of the currently being voted players.

OK, I'll make it easier for you: Pick one of SC & Creature and I'd happily cast a vote with a big smile on my face.

[Almost50]

Fuck everything else, can we lynch Almost now?

No, you can't. Not unless YOU are hammering.

[Almost50]

Sure. You hammer him.

Someone seems to have got me figured out. Or did they?

[Almost50]

OK, I'll make it easier for you: Pick one of SC & Creature and I'd happily cast a vote with a big smile on my face.

If had to choose from those 2. I'd hammer Creature.

'K.. let's give it a try:

VOTE: Creature

[Almost50]

Almost50, how can Leon be town and Narna scum?

1- Town are UNINFORMED. They do get carried defending scum all the time.
2- Leon isn't even in Unlynchables. He's starring in Clueless.

The way I see it: If Narna is scum that doesn't tell me much about Leon's alignment. HOWEVER, if Narna is Town Leon must be Town.

Put another way, Scum!Leon = Scum!Narna, but Town!Leon doesn't confirm Narna as either alignment.

Now I'm scum reading Narna, but I'm not sure about Leon. I even had him at a higher slot on my reads before that govern move.

[Almost50]

Also, I can be pretty useful if I am confirmed town.

Well, too bad you're NOT.

[Almost50]

What do you think Skullduggery would most likely add in the game vs what scum would most likely claim from the investigative claims?

You're trying to outguess skull??? REALLY???

[Almost50]

VOTE: Almost50

Titus is still scum, but that isn't going anywhere with me on it. Gamma was incredibly opportunistic with his voting, and just parroted people. A50 "thinks" Cakez is bussing me and has Leon as a townread despite posting whatever #4784 is. #4174 is a massive over justification for his hammer on Mcmenno, and the whole, "Why would you claim?" thing is a load of bull. It's also really strange to say #4297 if you're "drop dead, scum" reading me. It looks to me like you were preparing for a townflip and vying for whatever small towncred you can get from the day.

You know, I shouldn't be responding to this crap bc anyone with a brain can see you're talking nonsense, starting from calling my predecessor opportunistic, through bringing up a post where I suggested we defuse Leon's governor utility on himself (which is very much different than actually lynching him), to the "massive justification" stuff, and ending with making my "disappointment of the day seemingly ending before I get a chance to even read it" a scummy thing. I didn't even object to the Lynchee (That's you) but only to the speed it was done with.

Congratulations for stealing the light spot from SirCakez on that movie. You are now officially

the

villain of the season.

[Almost50]

Almost, I want you to respond to what Narna said, because I don't think it's nonsense at all.

I already did though. Thank you very much.

[Almost50]

So what's your opinion on how Narna acted after being hammered?

[Almost50]

town Almost is usually pretty outspoken

I've been telling you FACTS ever since I replaced in, but you're just not reading, which is a great portion of why I'm scum reading you. Both Nahdia & Chara have been paying attention, and that earned them town points.

P.S. My "town points" are granted to those who know me well and have played more than one game before. I do not expect those who never played with me (or played me maybe once) to understand so they neither earn town points nor scum points for failing to understand my OBVIOUS messages.

[Almost50]

So what's your opinion on how Narna acted after being hammered?

I think it was more likely how town reacts after being hammered. What about you?

I have no preference either way. When I get lynched I don't usually take much after the hammer as either alignment.

[Almost50]

I understand Narna's claim may be fictitious if Narna is scum. Narna's result, however, is an actual result. You are asking me to do some high-level tin-foil hoop-jumping to get to a point where I don't at least believe Narna has access to that result. Calling it "nonsense" is just you trying to alienate me. Is that your game plan here?

That result access just means she's scum and you're town. Gunsmith is easy to fake as scum.

We should be publicly dictating who Narna checks. Worse case scenario, we get associatives. Who do you think she should check?

[Almost50]

Course I'd probably just end up paranoid ranting about possible redirectors.

Nahdia, dear.. you know you won't be trusting Titus in this game even if you do get to peek on her inbox and actually read her PM. Let's have Narna check someone more likely to earn your trust and hers if proven to not be carrying a gun. I've already claimed I have no active abilities to begin with, so no gun would be even better (and make it safe for a TPR to check me IF they're still in doubt).

[Almost50]

Why do I feel that town is

[Almost50]

Also, this isn't word vomit like I did at Micro 597 (in fact, I think that game was my best scum game, maybe behind Micro 647).

Can somebody tell me where this came from?? I mean, what town player refers to their previous scum games UNPROMPTED?? Did anybody say anything about Creature's meta recently??

[Almost50]

Snarky and Almost are probably town.

Probably?? I'm "probably" Town?? Somehow I find it hard to believe you're still not 100% sure of my alignment, role and every other little detail in my role PM.

[Almost50]

I have a feeling Maxous is different compared to The Walking Dead Season Finale mafia.

This also gets on my nerves. All Creature seems to do is "this seems like X played in that game" or "this Y is different from the Y that was in the other game".

First: In WHAT WAY are they similar/different??

Second: Do you have ANYTHING else to add besides meta reads?

Third: So what happens when you're playing with someone for the very first time? How do you suggest you should sort them out??

[Almost50]

SnarkySnowman being active in this game is a town tell.

Lul



also @titus - can you see any way Almost would be scum or is that just not a possibility for you

may I ask you what your problem is with my play in this game in particular?? You seem obsessed by the thought I might be scum to the point you are not paying attention at all, and I would very much appreciate it if you could explain this conf!bias against me in this game in particular. Thank you.

[Almost50]

Snarky and Almost are probably town.

Probably?? I'm "probably" Town?? Somehow I find it hard to believe you're still not 100% sure of my alignment, role and every other little detail in my role PM.

Cannot tell if sarcastic...

Nope. 100% legit. I have literally told you everything at least thrice.

[Almost50]

Snarky and Almost are probably town.

Probably?? I'm "probably" Town?? Somehow I find it hard to believe you're still not 100% sure of my alignment, role and every other little detail in my role PM.

Like this. This, to me, is so scummy

To you it may be. You don't usually pay much attention to minor details (no offense.. I respect your playstyle). Titus on the other hand would take a post and analyze it in a forensic lab for DNA and stuff, so NO WAY she has missed a fluffy hair ball here or a collar/bracelet there at the crime scene. NO WAY.

[Almost50]

I don't believe that you believe what you're saying, for the most part

And what is that? I mean, what exactly have I said that you don't believe that I believe??

[Almost50]

Titus did NOT say I'm town. She said I'm PROBABLY town, and THAT is bothering me.

[Almost50]

@Snarky:

If I lay it out to you it will take away all the fun. That's why I'm playing the way I do. It is no longer a "mafia game" if just blatantly share our role PMs explicitly. However, reading between the lines, getting hints and stuff IS what constitutes playing the game.

[Almost50]

Snarky and Almost are probably town.

Probably?? I'm "probably" Town?? Somehow I find it hard to believe you're still not 100% sure of my alignment, role and every other little detail in my role PM.

Cannot tell if sarcastic...

Nope. 100% legit. I have literally told you everything at least thrice.

Umm... not that I recall. I will reread your ISO but I am clearly missing something.

yeah, please do. I promise I won't bite.

[Almost50]

Oh no wait found it.

I feel dumb. Got your back Almost.

And now you probably know why I thought both Nahdia & Chara have been paying attention, as they both seem to have picked up on it for sometime now.

[Almost50]

@Titus:

I'm not too sure how you interpreted my crumbs, but I KNOW Nahdia knows my ROLE (i.e. not just the flavour).

[Almost50]

I'm also like 90% sure Chara does too.

[Almost50]

anyway, Let scum sort out. Scum will always be scum by any other name

[Almost50]

@Snarky:

I can't help you much more, brother. Just out of curiosity though, what flavour "shit" did you come to see? At this point I don't mind outing my flavour if you can guess it right.

[Almost50]

OK. So you think the creator of the game is neutral. Nice. I have no more arguments.

[Almost50]

Erm.. just out of curiosity, how did your version work? I mean, what exactly was the ROLE of the annoying dog in your game?

[Almost50]

Gave out Dog Residue, which filled inventories that might have done other useful stuff. Won if every other player's inventory was full (aka annoyed everyone)

Well, that was a totally different role then. This one here has no active abilities.. [redacted, redacted, reacted..]

[Almost50]

Have you ever heard about the word "moderate"??? Cuz it seems this town either posts too much or not at all!

[Almost50]

More votes on Creature, please. This is how the game works. You lynch SCUM. We need a red flip.

[Almost50]

@Creature:

Lynching me will probably evade you all game long, so why don't you just eat rope and have a scum buddy shoot me next night? At least I'd go after having caught one scum in you.

[Almost50]

Also a50, why are you so sure Creature is scum again?

I'm psychic. I don't use a crystal ball or a deck of cards though and I certainly don't talk to the dead. It's much more simple than that. I just consult the system (Minority Report reference).

[Almost50]

Every one of a50's posts sound so forced to me. Am I the only one feeling this? Also a50, why are you so sure Creature is scum again? I remember you saying he was mcmenno's scumbuddy, but that turned out false.

I feel you, Bern scunreading the slot since before he replaced in.

Think we can stage a grand push for glory there?

Reh-heh-heh-ealy? So you scum read Gamma?? That's good to know.

[Almost50]

Every one of a50's posts sound so forced to me. Am I the only one feeling this? Also a50, why are you so sure Creature is scum again? I remember you saying he was mcmenno's scumbuddy, but that turned out false.

I feel you, Bern scunreading the slot since before he replaced in.

Think we can stage a grand push for glory there?

Down for it.

And that is -of course- based on your infallible meta read of my play, right?

[Almost50]

OK, you guys convinced me.

VOTE: Creature

The scummiest of all scum.

[Almost50]

Cakez also expressed interest in a50 without voting them, but I'm townreading that slot more than the other two at the moment.

Cakez wanted me lynched??? I asked him explicitly if I could join his death row and he said no. Are you fantasizing stuff now?

[Almost50]

but now that i think of it. Almost, Cakez

did

call you scum recently, it's in his ISO.

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. This was his last reference to me though:

A50 is not someone I would wagon until my other scumreads are dead

Narna seems to grasp at straws in his push on me he's getting desperate. IF YOU WANT ME DEAD: SHOOT ME, SCUM.

[Almost50]

@Leon:

Can we get your most recent read list please? I know you haven't read much of the last 15 pages, so just list the names and your reads (w/o much explanation) up to the point where you are actually caught up. Thanks.

[Almost50]

02 SirCakez

03 Giovanni il Pellegrino

04 Maxous

05 Creature
06 PeregrineV

07 Titus

08 Shiro

11 Nahdia

12 Firebringer
13 Not Chara

14 Ankamius

15 SlySly

17 SnarkySnowman
18 Narna
19 Almost50

21 Andrius

22 massive

Shoot! That didn't help much, seeing as we -more or less- agree on the majority of them.

I asked bc seeing how there's a great resistance to the lynch of a Governor role you might have been town reading scum. Otherwise why wouldn't they want you dead?

[Almost50]

You still haven't said why you're scumreading me lol
All of your posts are fake as hell

1- I smell scum in you.
2- Of course they are. Dogs don't talk.

[Almost50]

A50: One of us needs to move, but only one. Are you considering moving? I am.

Not really, no. I have a much higher chance for Leon to flip Town here.

[Almost50]

This town is hopeless. Not ONLY do we keep lynching TOWN players, but we also do it for reasons that are utter nonsense.

Narna is Town. They didn't know they would be governed, so their reaction after the hammer makes them TOWN.

Shiro is a MILLER, so he will return a GUILTY to a Guilty/Not Guilty Cops (that is Mafia/Not Mafia, Gun/No Gun .. etc.).

The fact that we are on D4 and Titus is still alive raises red flags, but I'm still 50-50 on her at this time.

Cakez posts are intriguing and I can't decide whether I should keep him in my scum list or move him to null. @Cakez: I HATE YOU (not really, but I can never read you)

I'd lynch Creature or Firebringer, or could settle for massive as a compromise. Unless we do flip scum today I can't really deduce links, but -more importantly- a mislynch for the 4th day probably gets us in a MyLo or one step away from it at best.

[Almost50]

My case is I don't town read him like AT ALL. It's either you or him for me.

[Almost50]

Why do you assume miller will show up as having a gun? That's not how millers normally work.

Keyword here is "normally", and this is not a "normal" game. A Miller isn't really a miller if they show as "not vanilla" to Neapolitan. Not anymore than a Flower Vendor for instance. A Miller would've shown up as MILLER to the Role Cop. So, what exactly do/did you expect a miller to return to what role to actually be a -you know- MILLER?

My case on you is you are not playing. You're just making noise, and if you keep on playing like that in all the games I play with you I'm going to turn it into a policy to lynch you regardless. This is NOT the Firebringer I have come to know and like over the past year.

[Almost50]

I don't think snowman is scum

I think Titus' point is he is more of a Xmas figure not a Thanksgiving one, so he doesn't fit for the day.

Still, I'd rather lynch a turkey, but I could settle for a duck if that's all we've got.

[Almost50]

Nahdia, do me a favour and trust me, vote almost.

I know I am right based on mostly gamma and a little based on almost.

Care to pont me to ONE game where you actually read me right? I believe I am to you what SirCakez is to me!!

[Almost50]

Titus, you're scum in this game, aren't you?

VOTE: Titus

[Almost50]

50 is both WEAK and EVEN-NIGHT which is nerfed into the ground and/or scum needlessly complicating their fakeclaim.

I believe that's Giovanni you might be talking about here. I claimed having no actives and not having the ability to kill.

[Almost50]

Shiro: Describe how your miller role works ASAP, please.

All checks on me return as if I was scum aligned

but saying 'this person can kill' isn't "scum-aligned"
town roles can kill also.
i don't think i've ever seen a miller that is guilty to a gunsmith

urgh

I have, and it's why I automatically thought that guilty meant nothing.

Aside from a game where there was a "Gunsmith Miller", I have been in another game that the Miller's Role OM read: "You will return the most unfavourable result to any and all investigatives" (I'm paraphrasing from memory, but I'm POSITIVE it had that effect.. MOST UNFAVOURABLE RESULT TO ALL INVESTIGATIVES). Was it Soccer Spirits?? Not sure.

[Almost50]

Fine. Whatever. And when Shiro flips Town don't forget to lynch Narna who will flip Town then we go after another Townie and the game will be soon over.

VOTE: Shiro

Out of boredom more than anything else.

[Almost50]

I bet hat was ANNOYING! heh heh heh

[Almost50]

[Almost50]

Fine. Whatever. And when Shiro flips Town

don't forget to lynch Narna who will flip Town

then we go after another Townie and the game will be soon over.

VOTE: Shiro

Out of boredom more than anything else.

VOTE: Firebringer

I knew you scum hiding behind your apathy.

Also, SORRY.. I genuinely thought Titus was scum for living this long.

[Almost50]

[Almost50]

i'm voting Almost cause he's been very unuseful and tunneled on town-Titus

I .. tunneled ... on Titus????

Anyway, WELCOME to the new trio. I don't know Pine (at least not by that name. If you have alts then I'm not aware of them). I know Math & Accountant are not apathetic.

UNVOTE:

@Accountant:

I'm the ANNOYING DOG. I've been doing my best to live up to the name. I'm Town though. I have no active abilities and no killing abilities (i.e. Not even a PGO/Bomb/Vengeful ..etc.)

It is still NOT safe to lynch me for <reasons>.

[Almost50]

Then what is bastard about this game?

Trust me, there IS at least one bastard component to this game.

However, I'm comfortable letting you do your own thing on this game in particular. There's literally nothing you can say or do that could offend or upset me after what we have seen from certain individuals. Even swearing and cursing is alright by me (but I'd still appreciate it if you didn't overdo it)

[Almost50]

Everyone that I read as town both before and after my replace out tells me you're a scumlord. Flipped town agrees and my neighbours all agree. I'm told you gave a fake result that led to a town mislynch.

VOTE: Narna

Oh, you were already in the game before. I missed that. So, what's the "famous in the 90's" reference Firebringer mentioned? ONLY respond if you don't think it will hurt the game status any further though.

OK, time for my own reads & reamrks (for the benefit of the 3 who just joined in/rejoined):

SirCakez

is SCUM. At one point he was fabricating evidence on Pepto/Narna. I wasn't even town-reading Narna at that time, but the push was very much forced with circumstantial evidence. (Don't ask for explanations. ISO Cakez instead, please).

Giovanni il Pellegrino

WEAK Follower Claim. Has been a Town read since House was there, then Yume, so Giovanni replaced into an already very likely Town slot, and I haven't seen much of him to weaken that read.

Maxous

Also very likely Town. I have no special remarks on the slot otherwise.

Mathbade

(Creature) was basing EVERY SINGLE READ OF HIS on previous games (i.e. meta) and didn't look like reading into this game at all. I had a strong scum lean on him because of precisely that. Math will have to do some work to improve my read on the slot, and it's why I want them to feel comfortable to act in any way they deem is the correct play.

PeregrineV

If this isn't Town!PV then I don't think he will ever be Town read by me again.. ever.

Nahdia

One of the players I'd always be wary of. There's not much evidence of scummy behaviour from them though, but I have always maintained Nahdia can never earn a 100% Town read from me unless they do flip Green, and the Jailer could be of either alignment.

Accountant

I think it's fair to reset my read here to TOTAL NULL. If we go by what's been going on I'd be tunneling THIS SLOT, and it's because of nothing ACCOUNTANT has said or done.

Not Chara

Although not as confident here as I am on Giovanni, Maxous or even PV, I have a fairly strong Town read on the slot.

Ankamius

I had a mush stronger Town read on him earlier, but I've been second guessing myself. The Miller claim doesn't help when we've already had a flipped Town Miller. I'm not saying his claim is false by necessity, but I'm just not 100% sure now.

BigYoshiFan

Snarky was Town to me, and that's all I can say on the slot for now.

Narna

I had a strong SCUM read there earlier, but bit by bit I came to realize it doesn't make any sense. I have been defending him since yesterday and have predicted that when the Miller flips TOWN Narna will be next and he will also flip TOWN. There are also other factors, like the Gio inno on him, so Narna is TOWN.

Almost50

Annoying TOWN Dog. Will annoy you all for as long as he lives, and when/if he dies he will make sure to continue to be annoying.

Pine

Another slot that's been heading south after having been one of my strongest Town reads earlier (Now you know why Skull had to act and force replace 3 slots at once). He claimed Vig, then retracted and stated he had no killing abilities, but still could submit 3 kills a night (read the ISO, please). I would very much appreciate it if Pine could elaborate on whatever Andrius was talking about (but again: ONLY if it doesn't hurt the game status or weaken the Town chances to win this).

massive

A fruit vendor is usually TOWN, no? Both Andrius and Titus (not positive on Titus) acknowledged receiving fruit from him, so he's Town.

It thus follows my read list looks like this:

Conf!Town: Almost (The only PM I have actually read myself)

Strong Town: Giovanni il Pellegrino, Maxous,

Very Likely Town: Narna, massive, PeregrineV, (former 2 analytically, PV is a pure guts and meta read)

Not a priority: Ankamius, Andrius, BigYoshiFan, Not Chara, (in no particular order)

I'm Paranoid: Nahdia,

Leaning Scum: Creature, Firebringer,

S-C-U-M: SirCakez,

[Almost50]

Spoiler: Brief Game Summary

Day 1

Various wagons are tested, Magna is eventually lynched.


Also during this day, the deadline was mysteriously extended by over 100 years after 516 occurred. Wingdings have become a common theme during the game and I’ll discuss them in more detail in the scum team speculation section.

Day 2

Narna and McMenno become competing counterwagons, ending with McMenno being lynched. From 4009 onward, ALL mod communication in thread becomes wingdings. Since McMenno’s flip is obscured by this, I’ll post the translation here:
McMenno was sans, town lazy coroner.
nighttime abilities: during the night phase, you may select any dead player in the game to learn who targeted that player with a killing action on the night that they died. if this player was targeted by more than one killing action, you will learn the identities of all of that player's killers. you may only use this ability starting on night 7.
(yes, it was all in lower case)

Day 3

Because McMenno flipped town, Narna is quickly wagoned. However, Leonshade uses his governor ability to save them. Leonshade is eventually lynched for this.

Day 4

Narna’s psychologist role (which detects if a player has or has ever had access to a kill) gets a “guilty” on Shiro, who denies ever having access to a kill. He is however a miller, which he claimed day 1. Narna asks in private Skullduggery if millers would show as “guilty” on her check and is told they will not. However, Shiro amends his miller claim to global miller, which returns all investigative results as if he were a scum-aligned player. Ankamius (also a miller) backs this up saying his role functions similarly.


As of 5802, the deadline this day was suddenly slashed by a roughly a week.

Spoiler: All Claims

I’m including in this softs, since I doubt much has escaped a full scumteam’s notice.


Worth noting that investigative roles receive full reports including the target’s name, which means speculation as to possible busdrivers is faulty. Titus (dead town) confirms this in 3633. Giovanni and Narna have both confirmed this as well.

SirCakez:

No claim. However his role has been made public in a neighborhood which I believe consists currently of Firebringer, Andrius, and Creature (?) as Shiro was in it previously and had rolecopped him. This is stated in 6187. He did as of 6213 state he was roleblocked, indicating his role is one which gets some sort of feedback.

Giovanni il Pellegrino:

Weak unclaimed investigative role. First claimed weak in 4483 (Day 3), first claimed investigative in 4541, as of 6162 he confirms his role receives feedback. He confirms in 6322 that his weak modifier triggers any time he targets anyone who is not town. In 4539 he also states his role is even-night only. He claims to have targeted Maxous night 2 and Narna night 4.

Maxous:

Roleblocker. Claimed 3625 (Day 2) Claims to have roleblocked Shiro night 1, which is confirmed by earlier Shiro in 3541. Night 2 and 3 actions not claimed (??). Night 4 block was Creature, claimed in 6361.

Creature:

No claim to my knowledge.

PeregrineV:

No claim to my knowledge.

Nahdia:

Jailkeeper. First claimed 2136 (you can find a working link for the audio in 4104, though I should mentioned Skullduggery asked that no one else do this). My role allows other people to target my target, just not kill them. I targeted zakk night 1, massive night 2, no one night 3, and Maxous night 4. Obviously I was either roleblocked night 1 or there was a strongkill, since zakk died. Claimed my night 1 action in 3430, night 2 action in 4353 (should note i was wrong about my role mechanics in that post), night 3 action in 5964, night 4 action on 6216. Flavor claimed (well, heavily softed but by writing it here I confirm it) Muffet.

Firebringer:

Neighborizer. I don’t know the order of the targets, but it seems to have at certain points contained himself, Andrius, Creature, Titus, and Shiro. Not 100% where this was claimed. Andrius mentions Titus was a neighbor in 6165 and refers again to a hood in 6184.

Not Chara:

No claim to my knowledge.

Ankamius:

In 126, Ankamius states that he has a miller state, a hated state, and benefits from hammering. In 5976, he clarifies that his miller state returns guilties on all investigatives.

BigYoshiFan:

No claim to my knowledge.

Narna:

Psychologist; claims to be told whether a player has or has ever had the ability to kill each night. First claims this in 4238 (I feel like it was earlier but can’t find anything?). Also in that post claims to have checked massive night 2, they cannot kill.. In 4246 Narna claims to have missed the deadline for submitting an action on Night 1. They got a “guilty” on Shiro on Night 3, as of post 5676. Claimed to have gotten a “cannot kill” on myself in 6164. Flavor claimed Gerson.

Almost50:

Heavily softed supersaint with flavor “Annoying Dog”. Supersaint softs include 940 and 947 (Gamma Emerald is the spot’s predecessor). I make a nod at Almost50’s role in 4950 and Almost50 acknowledges I know his role in 4957 and totally confirms it in 5116. Flavor soft of Annoying Dog is in posts 6124 and 6125.

Andrius:

...I’m not sure, really. Andrius flavor claims Frisk all over the place. Makes allusion to possible pacifist and genocide routes in 3135 and 4057 and a bunch of other places but I’m not sure what they mean. In 5922 he claims Titus knew his role, perhaps it’s stated in the neighborhood? In 6165 he says Titus knows his “secret”.

massive:

Softed fruit vendor in 4219. I know his flavor, but I’ll let him decide if he wants it outed.

See? It's posts like these that make it hard for me to actually scum read Nahdia no matter how paranoid I am about them overall. No scum goes through al this trouble to explain the game to others who have just joined in.

Oh, and for the record: I'm neither Vengeful not SuperSaint either. I do NOT have the capacity to kill either during my life or after I get killed/lynched. I'm still going to be Super ANNOYING though.

[Almost50]

Literally every time I come to this game and see a reference to Narna as a "she or her" I go check on HIS avatar and make sure I read HIS pronoun correct!

It's no biggie (and it obviously doesn't bother him either) but it confuses the hell out of me. Just saying.

[Almost50]

The second post I can totally accept though. I've considered the possibility that maybe only one member of the scumteam has access to their nightkill or something to that effect, in order to purposefully dilute Narna's role.

hey, that's not a bad thought at all. Someone who can kill while they're alive and if they get lynched the killing role passes on to the next in line. GOOD POINT, NAHDIA.

[Almost50]

If A50 is only a supersaint I'm definitely okay lynching him.

Go ahead. Nobody's stopping you, and especially not me. I don't know where you got "likely scum" from though when everyone who actually knows how to read me says my play is 100% Town (Not Chara, my hydra partner, Titus after she had picked on my crumbs (and is confirmed Town now too), and even Scum!Cakez who keeps evading a push on me because he knows it'd come back to bite him in the meaty area between the end of his spine and the back of his thighs)

Also, use your common sense. What SCUM deliberately hammers TWICE and THEATRICALLY do so as well? What scum hammers while asserting the lynchee will still flip TOWN?? I maybe crazy, but I'm not THAT crazy. Duh!

[Almost50]

The people in that hood currently are Accountant, Pine, and Mathblade.

So, the 3 who got force replaced ARE the 3 sharing a neighbourhood?? And what IS SC's role? Do we know it or is it just those in the neighbourhood? And if the latter, how do we know one of them isn't scum and that's why the role leaked out?

[Almost50]

if we were to lynch Almost50, I'd want someone I really distrust like BigYoshiFan to be forced to hammer.

No. Ankamius hammers, so he learns a valuable lesson to actually READ WHAT I TYPE.

[Almost50]

Nahdia, were you the one who said a massclaim wouldn't help us?

No.

another question: where did Firebringer claim neighbourizer where Nahdia could see? i don't remember that claim.

If you want to subtly sling mud at me you're gonna have to try a lot harder than that.

This is me confirming that Firebringer is a Neighborizer.
I crumbed being neighborized a few times.
The N1 target did as well.

Shiro was last night's addition and a certain Baker was not trilled with the addition.

Ok, so therein lies the key to solve the puzzle. Either Firebringer is a SCUM Neighbourizer, or Creature is the scum member of that neighbourhood.

Andrius is the one who leaked SC's role, right? And Titus got shot bc of something she said in there. If we lynch withing Accountant/Mathblade we have a RED FLIP guaranteed. The thing is we need to lynch the right one to prevent the town slipping closer to a horrific defeat.

@Neighbourhood members:

Could you please reread the whole thing (your PT) and look for clues to have us make the correct lynch between Math & Accountant?

[Almost50]

At work I am not in a neighborhood. I replaced Creature.

@Mod can you please let me know if I am supposed to be in a hood?

*Scratches Head*

OK.. this is D5, yes?? Accountant is the neighbourizer, so we can still learn the exact order in which members joined the neighbourhood as well as their identity. there should be 4, one of which was Titus. If Shiro was also there, then Creature/Math are out and we have only Accountant+Pine right now. In this case I'd lynch Accountant, but I would want to see everyone's input on these two, keeping in mind TWO of the neighbouhood members are already dead (Shiro was lynched, and Titus NK'd).

[Almost50]

Or at least not scum. In Andrius's case probably SK or town prob not group scum. Leaning latter but SK possible.

It simply is NOT possible for everyone in there to be Town when:

1- SC's role get leaked in there and then he gets RB'd
2- Titus gets NK'd after joining (I still need to know WHEN she joined in).

IF we are to trust Andrius that Titus knew his role (she didn't object to his statement that she did) it makes Firebringer (Accountant now) the most likely scum person (yes, SCUM neighbourizer IS a thing, and especially so in a bastard game).

However, Andrius may have tricked Titus into believing he had a role that he didn't, and thus it could be still Andrius (Pine now) who is scum. The weak side of this narrative is how did he trick Titus into it w/o attracting Firebringer's attention? They must've talked to each other in the PT, and thus FB must've seen it too. However, Andrius kept saying TITUS knew his role, not Titus and Firebringer, although Andrius had already acknowledged he was neighbourized by FB anyway, but didn't mention Titus was until she flipped.

VOTE: Accountant

[Almost50]

There is no town benefit to hood hunting.

This is useless. Hunt scum not info.

Oh, but there is. TWO of the hood members already died. And, this is NOT a "normal" hood. The MOD did not assign memberships to it's members. Firebringer did. He's a NEIGHBOURIZER. If he is scum, he knew who to invite and to wha purpose. If he was town, he still had horrific reads (he finally admitted it just before he was force replaced). Either way there is a high probability of there being scum in there, and my vote is on the recruiter himself.

P-edit:

Narna didn't lie. I don't think. Titus told Narna to check Shiro. SCUM knew that was a very likely check to happen, and the framer did his job.

Now in the most unlikely event that Narna indeed lied; that wold make him SCUM (why else would you lie about a result that leads to the lynch of a Town player?). That also means Giovanni is SCUM. It also brings massive, Nahdia (yourself), and someone else (I already forgot whom, but basically everyone Narna/Giovanni said they checked and cleared). I'm not buying this.

[Almost50]

@Math/@Nahdia:

Cakez wasn't RB'd, but is claiming to have been to get town cred. If THAT is the case then Andrius (Pine) is more likely his partner (yes, I keep coming and going on Pine/Accountant and can't decide which of them is the scum team member).

[Almost50]

Fucking hell I claimed day 1. They could've been using me as their own roleblocker every night if they have a redirector.

ROTFL. And that IS why you don't claim early for no purpose or reason. Use your claim strategically. I'd suggest you stop submitting night actions if you're not a compulsive RB.

[Almost50]

Almost: i'm beginning to have doubts about you. what are you attempting to do this game? can you refresh me on who's scum?

Keep reading and you will get all the answers.

I'll tell you something though: You know one of my tells.. well.. semi-tells. Right? The one we discussed most recently and you said you knew about.

Now if that IS happening, then you know I'm Town. If it's not, then what I'm telling you about my role and alignment is TRUE, and thus .. I AM TOWN.

See? Either way I should be totally town read by you by now. I'm just being ANNOYING (having fun living up to the role I was assigned. I mean, as per the wiki page of the Annoying Dog "Whenever it shows up, it often somehow comedically ruins the characters' plans.", and me hammering ahead of two people who need to do it to gain points ID ruining their plans w/o actually affecting the game status (i.e. not harming the whole Town, since the subject would have been hammered anyway, so I'm just messing the CHARACTER'S PLANS).

There's more to it if you look closely, but -overall- I am TOWN, I'm NOT HARMING THE TOWN, and I'm HAVING FUN roleplaying my ROLE.

[Almost50]

It is NAI. I have done that as town and scum. Remember how in Gistou someone says you don't make a thirty player wall as scum? I did. Effort doesn't mean town.

Shadowrun Mafia I gave town the probabilities I already did.

Effort or lack there of is NAI sans context.

You're probably right. I only said I can't get myself to outright scum read Nahdia, but -at the same time- have stated that I can't fully trust them either. They're not doing anything outright scummy though, and I do get a town vibe from mos of their posts, yet I'm paranoid of them in particular because they are VERY GOOD at disguising their intentions as scum.

[Almost50]

Reaffirming my scumread of Almost50 for that reads list.

Mine is probably the only hammer I will let you have if I had it my way, bro.

[Almost50]

@Ank:

Could you please have a camera handy for when you hammer me and I flip? I want to see the look at your face then.

[Almost50]

@Math:

ALRIGHT. You know how I operate, going post by post. At the time of me posting all this Math vs Accountant I had yet to read you posts about not being in the hood. I am responding to the post I'm quoting, and when I do it means I had not read anything beyond that point.

[Almost50]

Also why are you assuming that nobody was added to the neighborhood N4?

Your sureness about these things is really bizarre.

???

Who cares who joined on N4? Shiro was lynched on D4, Titus shot on N4 & Cakez allegedly blocked also N4. If there is a mole they had to be there from N3 or earlier, or they would not have learned SC's role (if he was blocked) or what Titus said in the hood that might've got her killed.

[Almost50]

Oh yes it is and you only bring it up when I suggest the hood is a masonry? If you genuinely believed this you would have brought this up long before. Namely you would have been hood hunting for a different reason. What is much more likely is scum do not have eyes and it is a coincidence and could be using Nahdia as a puppet to their own will or Nahdia is scum. None of this at all has to do with the hood. You just wanted me or Accountant lynched and then when I poked an airplane sized hole through your bullshit you turned to Accountant.

Didn't we already have a talk about you jumping the gun after a certain game where you insisted Mirhawk was the scum in there and town read the real mole?? Come on, Math. Do your thing, but don't repeat the same mistakes, my friend.

If it was a Masonry then Accountant would've got the role of a MASONIZER. A Neighbourizer will recruit ANYONE (i.e. no guarantee on their alignment) and when a "fake" guilty arises on one member, another member gets NK'd, and someone's role gets revealed in the neighbourhood and they get RB'd on the very following night then if follows that it's MUCH MORE LIKELY there is a traitor in there (as in, MOLE, not the "role" of a Traitor). You can't tell me SC got blocked the same night Titus got shot has more chance of being a coincidence than a planned scheme based on knowledge of info that otherwise should be privy to the neighbourhood members.

[Almost50]

Look at the post directly after that, bud.

Explain why you're so sure that the neighborhood has scum in it. Now.

Read the post above this one.

[Almost50]

A masonry is defined as a neighborhood with all town in it.

No, A Masonry is a neighbourhood in which THE MOD confirms every member as Town. Otherwise it's still a mere "All Town Neighbourhood" at best, which isn't even the case here because neither can we nor can even the members of that neighbourhood themselves confirm beyond any shadow of doubt that all other members are alligned with the Town.

[Almost50]

Almost50, can you elaborate on your PeregrineV read?

I did. PV usually lurks out and when he does post he says nothing useful. That applies to him as EITHER alignment, btw. Here he is actually posting regularly (hasn't even been prodded once!!) and his posts actually have content, which only applies to Town PV and ONLY when he IS interested in playing the game. I can't see him being scum here at all.

[Almost50]

Almost: okay. though i had a second question. ;> who are the scum?

SirCakez for starters. Someone in the neighbourhood is most likely, and SC was OT RB'd but claims to be is my best guess.

It is hard though to have assertive reads when all the flips we've seen were Town. We have the mod assertion there IS a non-Town aligned faction though, and I can't see that being a single person nor even a duo due to the sheer size of the game, so I\m still expecting 4-5 of them.

In the neighbourhood I'm leaning the recruiter themselves. That would help scum hide and extract the info from unaware town members who get neighbourized, though I wouldn't be too surprised if Pine (Andrius) also flipped red now that I think about it. I mean, FB neighbourizes Titus but can't extract the info from her so he invites his scum buddy to do it, and then they decide to bring in Shiro. Shiro leaks the info about SC's role, and he gets lynched NOT for the info, but for confirming he knew bits of the role. SC could still be scum in this scenario, and while Shiro's partial info got buried with him something Titus might've caught on (even as meaningless as she stating that if X then Y) gets her NK'd, and Cakez claims to have been RB'd to be excluded from being the killer himself.

By now I know it sounds circumstantial, so we do need a RED FLIP to start connecting the dots.

[Almost50]

Or at least not scum. In Andrius's case probably SK or town prob not group scum. Leaning latter but SK possible.

It simply is NOT possible for everyone in there to be Town when:

1- SC's role get leaked in there and then he gets RB'd
2- Titus gets NK'd after joining (I still need to know WHEN she joined in).

IF we are to trust Andrius that Titus knew his role (she didn't object to his statement that she did) it makes Firebringer (Accountant now) the most likely scum person (yes, SCUM neighbourizer IS a thing, and especially so in a bastard game).

However, Andrius may have tricked Titus into believing he had a role that he didn't, and thus it could be still Andrius (Pine now) who is scum. The weak side of this narrative is how did he trick Titus into it w/o attracting Firebringer's attention? They must've talked to each other in the PT, and thus FB must've seen it too. However, Andrius kept saying TITUS knew his role, not Titus and Firebringer, although Andrius had already acknowledged he was neighbourized by FB anyway, but didn't mention Titus was until she flipped.

VOTE: Accountant

You said I was null and SirCakez was scum, then vote me the moment someone indicates they might sheep that wagon. You can swing with Narna, tyvm

I can do as I please. I'm supposed to be recklessly annoying, remember? I won't be annoyed myself if you try to make a push on me. Let's see what you've got. Either come up with some reason(s) why I'm wrong here or show the class how I make sense as scum in any way, shape or form.

[Almost50]

Hmmm..

@Math:

Do you have a LOT of grass to convince me to sheep you on this??

OK, let's try: Explain why Scum!Giovanni gives an INNOCENT result on Narna specifically (when Narna was the designated lynch of he day). If you're answer is convincing I'll sheep you on Giovanni today.

As for Maxous, I believe the inno on him was also from Giovanni?? (Somebody correct me if it was Narna not Giovanni). If so, then Giovanni goes first to confirm he is scum (or am I missing something that makes Maxous a higher priority lynch?)

Now remember this: BOTH Giovanni & Maxous have been my strongest Town reads, so for me to actually be convinced to vote either of then you do need to have a more "organized" narrative to the order of action occurring on any given night. You can't say they're scum with Chara then go back to say but this makes Nahdia scum too, because then I'm not sure if you're saying all 4 are scum together, or if Nahdia replaces Chara in that regard, or if yo're assuming 2 scum teams .. etc.

Then there was the SK theory from before. Is that now void or what?

You know.. tell me what you think has been going on like I'm five (just ignore the zero in my handle if you will)

[Almost50]

OK.. obviously I have lots to read from both Math and Accountant, so ignore my last post for a while.

[Almost50]

Oh and I would want you to sheep me onto Maxous.

Wouldn't that necessitate you vote him first for me to be sheeping you?

[Almost50]

It is also possible there is no framer and Narna derped and hit the miller and miller said I am a killer. I maybe didn't ask the question in the right way to eliminate this possibility. Nahdia what did you ask the mod? All they gave me was the wiki link which has a variant in which millers would look like killers.

I didn't ask the mod myself here, but I proposed the miller might have worked in a way I had seen before which was "You would give the most unfavourable result to any and all investigative roles". Some refuted my proposition, somene said it was the case then they changed their mind and I gave up.

In my mind .. in a bastard game .. in a role madness game .. in a game modded by none other than skull.. a Miller would return a guilty to all kinds of cops. Also -and this is very important IMHO- we only had Narna's role and Shiro's as "investigative" role claims (not asking anyone else to claim). We had claims of a Follower, Roleblockers, and Titus was a Neapolitan (or Vanilla Cop). Now let's see:

How does a miller work with a Follower?? Will they give "performed a killing action" for instance?? Of course not.

How about RBs? Well, these don't return results to begin with.

And the Neapolitan/Vanilla Cop?? Everybody returns a Not Vanilla (unless the miller was purposefully designed to be to give a Vanilla result when they're not, which is WEIRD, and -also- not exactly a guilty).

Oh, and -of course- a Role Cop has nothing to do with a Miller, nor does a Flavour Cop (which we had no claims of, but still ..)

So, the ONLY "false guilty" that the Miller could've returned would have been to Narna's role, as per the claimed/known roles thus far, and thus I still believe Narna did get a guilty on Shiro regardless, and w/o the need of a framer intervention.

P-edit:

Fine. So if OUR Miller should not have returned a guilty to Narna, then who were they a Miller to? Do we have a claimed/flipped role that would have returned a false guilty on Shiro?? Or was he a Miller to to nobody???

[Almost50]

I've also tried to start lynches on the current frontrunners in Maxous and a50 way earlier in the game.

The thing that bugs me is you didn't try to check on any of the people you are pushing to verify that they do/did possess the ability to kill. You're pushing certain slots and checking totally different slots, which is strange to say the least.

[Almost50]

I also don't like how Almost 50 pushes Narna but doesn't question Gio's innocent on Narna.

I'm not pushing Narna anymore. I do lean towards him being framed and that he is Town.

However, I AM questioning his play. How do you keep pushing for the lynch of a certain slot for 3 consecutive days and never occurs to you to check them when you do have a check available each night? I mean, he's been pushing me for too long now, and it never looked like going his way, so a guilty would be nice to prove him right. An innocent would help him see things better and start looking in the right direction. A check on my slot should've been a must for him by now.

[Almost50]

Shiro: Describe how your miller role works ASAP, please.

All checks on me return as if I was scum aligned

THANK YOU, Ank.

Now, who would know better than the one who actually received and read their own PM? Anyone else asking the mod would have to use the correct phrasing, like "would a normal miller.." .. well who ever said Shiro was normal? Or "Would Shiro have returned a guilty ..?". Well, he wouldn't, except for XXX (which the mod did not and should not have added because it's considered mod-influence since it wasn't explicitly worded in the question.

My point is Shiro said it loud and clear: ALL CHECKS return a guilty. He already flipped and we know he was Town, so we might as well trust him on this one, and if we do; then Narna did receive a GUILTY on Shiro and it was BECAUSE OF SHIRO's ROLE. End of.

[Almost50]

@mod As he flipped, is Shiro's "miller" modifier a standard miller or did his miller modify his slot in ways a standard miller wouldn't? I only ask since all we're given is the role name. I'm hoping you can answer this publicly since it's a question anyone could conceivably ask and get a proper answer for.

Except for the last sentence, that's what I asked Skull privately.

See? THIS phrasing is malfunctional, Nahdia. You ask about "normal"? You get the wiki, in which there's NO INDICATION that a Miller does NOT return a guilty to a Gunsmith.

I'll quote:"A Miller that knows they are a Miller and flips as such is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. A Miller returns a guilty result if investigated by a Cop, "Miller" if investigated by a Role Cop, and "non-Vanilla" to a Vanilla Cop."

Now this phrasing (of the wiki) has two parts:

1- For a Miller to be considered "normal" they need to know about it and flip as such. THAT'S IT. That's the CONDITION for a Miller to be considered NORMAL on MS.

2- Standard Millers return Guilty to Cop, Miller to Role Cop and non-Vanilla to a Vanilla Cop. That's a discription, btw, not a "condition".

Now look at the section above (in that same wiki page), and I quote: "Some moderators take the "passive guilt" concept to the point where Millers also investigate unfavorably to other roles (i.e. Gunsmith). Alternatively, specialized Millers can be created specifically for investigative roles other than Cop."

Does it say hat this isn't normal? No, so Shiro's role did act normally within the definition of a normal Miller on this site.

Does the earlier quote EXCLUDE such case from being normal? No, it doesn't. It just doesn't address the situation at all.

So, a NORMAL Miller would return a guilty to a Cop, a Not Vanilla to a Vanilla Cop, and Miller to a Role Cop, but sill "could" return unfavourable results to other special investigative roles such as a Gunsmith.

Now who KNEW how the PM was worded, and thus didn't need to go in circles asking the question in multiple tongues?? Shiro did! He knew his role returned results as if he was Mafia-aligned. If one was Mafia what would they return to Narna's check "normally"? They will return an "able to kill" result. What's the difference between Narna's Role and a Gunsmith?? A Mafia Doctor (for instance) would return a negative result to a GS, but should return a positive result to Narna, bc they ARE able to kill even if they're not actually carrying a gun.

Now let's stop going around and around in circles, and just take THE FLIPPED TOWNIES WORD FOR HIS OWN ROLE!

[Almost50]

in which there's NO INDICATION that a Miller does NOT return a guilty to a Gunsmith.

But Narna claimed their role wouldn't return a guilty on a miller. A miller, from the wiki. A miller, which is what Shiro was.

So, Narna knows how SHIRO's PM was worded?? Maybe Narna is right (or maybe he is wrong) about "a Miller from the Wiki", but the wiki says nothing about a Psychoiologist (there's a Psychiatrist though).. but anyway, the wiki page about the Miller makes no mention of either, so maybe Narna's role wouldn't have returned a guilty to a Miller that followed he wiki and the roles mentioned in the wiki. That doesn't mean anything because neither Narna's role is explicitly mentioned there nor was it the understanding of Shiro either, and Shiro being the one who received the Miller role and read the PM knows better than any of us, so when he says ALL checks he means ALL of them.

[Almost50]

@mod As he flipped, is Shiro's "miller" modifier a standard miller or did his miller modify his slot in ways a standard miller wouldn't? I only ask since all we're given is the role name. I'm hoping you can answer this publicly since it's a question anyone could conceivably ask and get a proper answer for.

The function of Shiro's Miller modifier can be found on the pertinent Wiki page. I will not elaborate any further than that.

THERE IT IS!

The wiki page says:

Some moderators take the "passive guilt" concept to the point where Millers also investigate unfavorably to other roles (i.e. Gunsmith). Alternatively, specialized Millers can be created specifically for investigative roles other than Cop.

And I -sure as hell- would call this something that "can be found on the pertinent wiki page" because I did find it right there!

[Almost50]

So then you think Narna lied and is confirmed scum.

Nahdia dear: I know for a fact that you're not dumb or slow. I know for a fact that you can get a hint, let alone an explicit statement. Now for you to view what I'm saying in the exact reverse of it's implied meaning (actually not so implied as I've explicitly stated Narna was Town IMHO more than thrice) rings bells in my head. Now I'm even more suspicious of you.

And for fear it might've been my own phrasing that mislead you I was going to be "more lenient" with you, but I noticed the very next post to yours was THIS:

So you are saying Narna is innocent in seeing Shiro as guilty, correct?

Now how come Nahdia reads my statement as "Narna is a lying scum" while Yoshi reads it as "Narna is innocent"???

For the umpteenth time: I do believe Narna did receive a guilty on Shiro, and I believe it to be because of Shiro's Miller role, so Narna was NOT lying about his result.

[Almost50]

A50, you have to have Narna as confirmed scum in your eyes. Because yes, that

is

the only conclusion if you're going to take this path of reasoning. Unless you seriously think when Narna asked what their result targeting a miller would be, Skullduggery decided to answer Narna's question

using a different variation of miller than the one used in this game

.

The one IN THE GAME .. IS .. the one IN THE WIKI PAGE .. under VARIATIONS.

[Almost50]

Do millers have passive guilt in skullduggery's other games?

Skull is known to use variants and tailored roles. In my last game modded by him I was a COWARDLY HIDER. Hiders are weak (that's the "normal") meaning they DIE if they target scum. My role in that game didn't. Instead it got RB'd (i.e. instead of hiding I stayed at home, which made me available for NKs and/or investigations/protections and what not.)

If you ask anyone "would a Hider die if they targeted scum" the answer will always be YES. That IS the NORMAL role though.

Btw, it took me jus about the same effort there to explain as it is in here. It was MY OWN ROLE, yet people kept trying to interpret it their own way! I KNEW what my PM said. Skull makes his role PMs abundantly clear, and if you still got questions you can always ask him and he will explain.

So, if we're talking about how Shiro's specific role in this game worked there's no one better than Shiro to explain it, and he did.

[Almost50]

@Nahdia:

"A" Miller. As opposed to "THE" Miller version used as Shiro's modifier in this very game. "A" is a GENERAL question, and the answer is 100% correct. The standard Miller role does NOT return a guilty to a Gunsmith or a Psychologist.

You know what? When I finally start modding my own games (and I mean the games in which I create the setup, not use standard setups) I will be sure to invite you to them. You might find it interesting because I'm sure I won't be using "the wiki" as my sole reference. Instead, my own "touch" will be included in the ROLE PMS I send out.

[Almost50]

Do millers have passive guilt in skullduggery's other games?

Skull is known to use variants and tailored roles. In my last game modded by him I was a COWARDLY HIDER. Hiders are weak (that's the "normal") meaning they DIE if they target scum. My role in that game didn't. Instead it got RB'd (i.e. instead of hiding I stayed at home, which made me available for NKs and/or investigations/protections and what not.)

If you ask anyone "would a Hider die if they targeted scum" the answer will always be YES. That IS the NORMAL role though.

Btw, it took me jus about the same effort there to explain as it is in here. It was MY OWN ROLE, yet people kept trying to interpret it their own way! I KNEW what my PM said. Skull makes his role PMs abundantly clear, and if you still got questions you can always ask him and he will explain.

So, if we're talking about how Shiro's specific role in this game worked there's no one better than Shiro to explain it, and he did.

you cannot be seriously

Not serious about what? About me having been a Cowardly Hider in a game where I ended up NK'd bc I hid behind a Doctor who had a double-protection each night OR could protect themselves instead, and had been outed on the that same day so I figured they'd want to protect themselves, but instead they opted to protect 2 and one of them was a passive poisoner??

I mean, tell me a Tracker in any given game tells you someone had targeted themselves OR that they saw that someone visit TWO players last night and that you will think "they must be a double-doctor then".

FYI; The wiki says the norm for a Doctor is NOT to be able to target themselves either. But a Doctor obviously CAN target themselves (albeit it being NOT normal) still, and this is also in the wiki. So, you "can find it in the wiki page".

[Almost50]

@Math:

If I had to speculate on two teams (I'm well aware there was only 1 NK) then I'd put Creature/SirCakez/mcMenno/Not Chara on one side vs Titus/SlySly/Leonshade/Narna on the other.

These were my reads early into the game (D2). Titus, Sly & Leon all flipped TOWN, so Narna's proposed scum team was all bullocks.

Even McMenno flipped Town so the team I proposed to be

the

scum team earlier (regardless of this being single or mutli-ball) was flawed.

Right now I have Cakez, Pine and Accountant as my 3 top suspects. HOWEVER, these cannot be scum "together", so there's probably only one scumster in the trio.

It's REALLY hard for me to say who's going to flip red with any degree of certainty w/o actually having a red flip for a reference though. We're on D5 and we have yet to catch ONE scum, which is pretty weird and puzzling, and this why I'm very much willing to sheep you (new blood in the game usually have a fresh PoV and thus likely to end this mass blindness we've fell into).

[Almost50]

the result i got is a result, but it seems my results don't differentiate between being roleblocked, and simply nothing happening that night.

Let me try to make this even clearer: Assuming you were a Tracker (which is probably not true, but is a hypothetical assumption to get the point through) you'd get "You saw NOTHING" whether our target had no night action or you were locked, so you cannot differentiate between the two. Am I correctly understanding this?

[Almost50]

I obviously do. Sorry for the typo.

[Almost50]

I obviously do. Sorry for the typo.

If Maxous happens to be town then the game is almost solved because it makes Nahdia a liar which makes Narna scum for the fake innocent on Nahdia. Pretty much the way I see it either Gio's innocent or Narna's is a piece of shit.

No wait but Gio confirmed Narna that still means Gio is a liar.

Damn but lynching Gio we learn nothing.

God I want Almost 50 Not Chara and Yoshi all on platters one of Maxous and Nahdia and Probably gio.

Fucking calling it. Maxous Gio Almost 50 Not Chara and Yoshi is it.

OK.. I plead guilty, your honour. LYNCH ME! *Grrrrrrr*

[Almost50]

Good night all may we lynch scums.

Oh, yes we can.

VOTE: Mathblade

Testing waters for 48 hours now trying to find a weak link to mislynch and not casting your own vote on any = SCUM!Blade.

You're clearly "trying" to look like you're solving the game, but all you've done was casting doubt on half of the players list and NOT COMMITTING YOURSELF to ANY of them.

[Almost50]

@Yoshi:

Well, you should (trust me). Math has casted doubt on me, you, Gio, Maxous, NC, & Nahdia so far. they even considered any of the other two new replacement slots for instance. They told me to sheep them, but somehow decided I was scum when I reposted my OLD reads, which tells me I hit a live nerve somewhere. I guess Creature (Math)+Cakez+Firebringer (Accounant) is true after all, and I'm starting with the mastermind of this current team formation. Math, then Accountant, then Cakez. Ank can have his hammer if he wants, cuz I'm not moving my vote today.

[Almost50]

jesus christ can we please lynch BYF

No, Nahdia. It's Math.. I promise.

[Almost50]

OK then. If the game doesn't end after we lynch the 3 I proposed hen your head is rolling as their 4th.

Bottom Line: I'm NOT lynching Gio, Maxous, Narna, massive, PV, Ank, Andrius, NC or Nahdia.

[Almost50]

Sigh.

Ruff Ruff

[Almost50]

UNVOTE:

[Almost50]

First of all, Maxous is "non-town" and thus should be lynched in accordance to Town win-con.

Second: Mathblade is still scum, with Yoshi, Creeps and "someone else I cannot pinpoint yet". If Narna IS insane though then it's clearly Nahdia.

VOTE: Maxous

[Almost50]

@Math:

STOP IT. You are caught scum. I did say NARNA IS INSANE. He gets the REVERSE of the true results. That makes neither him nor Gio scum by any means. You're only mixing the cards to hide your scum team. You keep accusing Yoshi of being scum but never make a serious push on him, and when you made in 7351 you avoid mentioning him completely. Earlier you also called Yoshi scum but said you'd lnch him after he had helped you lynch his scum partners, which is your way of letting him go and pushing for mislynches and IF he ever flips you fall back on "I called him scum and I was sure of it".

If there are 2 slots I'm POSITIVELY SURE are scum it would be yours and Yoshi's.

Also, I know how noisy you become as scum to hide your motives AND lead the Town astray. I was there in Gistou, remember?? You looked like a TOWN leader except the other scum team did our job for us. You keep saying stuff and get too analytical when you ARE scum. When you're Town (like you were in -say- Real Folks Blues) you become silly and tunnel someone to death. You did it in a couple other games too .. I recall Wake's Role Madness for example.

So, you are only trying to appear reasonable, analytical and not particularly pushing someone too hard because you KNOW whoever you end up lynching will flip Town because you already excluded your scum partners from the "scum are all in this list"

[Almost50]

You also decided to let go of the one person who ADMITTED to be "non-Tow", which means your Role PM has a win-con that's different from that of the Town, or you would have known not to do so. Nahdia did catch on it, but she quoted the one from post #1 instead of directly saying it was HER win-con. That AND the high probability that Narna gets reversed results makes her more likely scum in my eyes now.

[Almost50]

Alternatively; it could be that ONLY ONE SCUMSTER CAN KILL. The killing ability may get inherited by another if that original killer is dead, or it could be a weapon that gets passed between the team members or whatever. I'm not going to put theories within theories which are based upon theories themselves. I'll leave that to you as you seem more than capable of changing your narrative every 24 hours and are protecting your partners well while the Town is already lost and imploding.

[Almost50]

Stop trying to policy lynch me and explain why a scum would not tunnel Narna on replace in if I am scum and Narna is town.

Because HE IS I.N.S.A.N.E.

He already cleared 2 of your buddies, and his flip will probably expose the truth about his results. Lynching TOWN!NARNA goes AGAINST you and your scum team's interests.

And since you keep pretending to not read:

NARNA IS TOWN. HE IS INSANE. HE GETS REVERSED RESULTS.

NARNA IS TOWN. HE IS INSANE. HE GETS REVERSED RESULTS.

NARNA IS TOWN. HE IS INSANE. HE GETS REVERSED RESULTS.

NARNA IS TOWN. HE IS INSANE. HE GETS REVERSED RESULTS.

NARNA IS TOWN. HE IS INSANE. HE GETS REVERSED RESULTS.

NARNA IS TOWN. HE IS INSANE. HE GETS REVERSED RESULTS.

NARNA IS TOWN. HE IS INSANE. HE GETS REVERSED RESULTS.

NARNA IS TOWN. HE IS INSANE. HE GETS REVERSED RESULTS.

NARNA IS TOWN. HE IS INSANE. HE GETS REVERSED RESULTS.

Now I want you to pretend you didn't see THA one more time.

[Almost50]

Again I did not ignore it.

I already explained if Narna insane you would have to have me with Creeps and Nahdia and then explain why I wouldn't tunnel Narna as scum which is ridiculous. And the fact the mod doesn't lie.

Why would you tunnel an insane investigator who cleared TWO of the scums and lynched a townie already, and then we all blamed it on Shiro being a Miller, so the innocent results on both your partners are still intact? Furthermore, there is a very good chance Narna will return another fake guilty tonight which results in another mislynch tomorrow, and then when the lynchee flips Town Narna will be the day after's mislynch and the game is won by your team!

[Almost50]

I beg to differ. The only guilty is Shiro and she is a miller. And what are the chances that 3 scum members are investigated one after the other? All returning guilty?

WHO is the third?? WHAT guilties were returned aside from Shiro's?? What language do you speak??

[Almost50]

Again I suggested Narna check a townread to verify Narna's sanity in case you don't believe me insanity is not a thing.

A Town read?? OF WHOM?? I'll only believe Narna's returned results now IF AND ONLY IF he checks ME. He has been pushing me for eternity now, so time for him to provide some solid reasoning, and what better than a GUILTY on me?? He checks me tonight or I do not believe him to be sane.

P-edit:

You can't have your cake and eat it too. The returned results were INNOCENTS with a guilty on SHIRO ALONE. If we correct the results then TWO guilties on Creeps and Nahdia, but an INNOCENT on Shiro. There were NO THREE GUILTIES IN A ROW, and -even worse- THESE WERE NOT 3 SCUMSTERS checked in a row. Are you joining the "non capisco l'inglese" party now?

[Almost50]

Furthermore if you believed Narna was insane you would go after Creeps or Nahdia to demonstrate that. Not me.

You just want me gone and it is pathetic.

You're the leader and here's no lynching either of them w/o you going down first. You shelter them, you nurture, and you're spoon feeding them te right course of actin too. They BOTH want Maxous lynched, but you don't see the benefit in losing his "neutral" vote now. You want a TOWNIE lynched, not a 3P who CAN win with you (but not with the Town) and canNOT kill (so you and your team are safe from him at night). Like, all he can do is block your kill, and with Nahdia in your ranks (if they are indeed a JK to begin with) they can take care of that.

The question asks about the validity of three guilties in a row being all on scum.

Does it?? OK, then it's the WRONG QUESTION, because the guilty on Shiro WAS NOT ON SCUM. Did that solve your problem?

[Almost50]

Almost: no one can be insane because it's a hidden modifier. Skullduggery was explicit in saying our roles function as described. i'm believing the mod on this, and you should too.

Like I said, I do not care to explain how it happened for now. We will learn about that later. All I know is this IS scum Mathblade, and Creeps, Nahdia & Yoshi are the rest of the team. I also know Maxous is anti-town regardless because of the way our win-con was worded. Go check your own PM and verify "all NON-TOWN" is in your win-con. He admitted to being non-Town, so he gets lynched today.

P.S. THIS from someone who usually defends 3P survivours.

[Almost50]

why would an insane Narna's flip confirm anything? if Narna doesn't know he's insane, i doubt he would flip as insane.

We don't KNOW what he will flip. Math doesn't either. It's better for scum to play it safe. Whether he IS insane, or they have a frame/redirector is irrelevant. Like, they know whom to redirect if hat's what they have, and know whom to direct them to to get another fake guilty. Then that flips Town and Narna eats rope next. 2 guaranteed mislynches, so why settle for the one on Narna? M point still stands with or without Narna being insane. The difference "may be" in the proposed guilties on Creeps and Nahdia. If he is not insane and he didn't crumb or indicate in anyway whom he was going to check on N2/N4 then they may still be Town, which is why I said

If there are 2 slots I'm POSITIVELY SURE are scum it would be yours and Yoshi's.

Now Math played a neat trick. I asked how come they did not include Yoshi in their

All scum in Peregrine V, Accountant, Not Chara, Almost 50, and Pine. (With wildcard Idont trust Ank)

And their response was

I mentioned Yoshi scum but had to focus on the Maxous/Narna situation because if we didn't we would be in a world of hurt.

The problem here is the maxous/Narna thing was already resolved (or they would not BOTH have been excluded from that very list in 7351, would they?

[Almost50]

You are in Let's tunnel Math ville because she is good Town.

Come on, Math, No offense, but I have NEVER seem you play a GOOD game as TOWN. You know I like you and enjoy playing with you regardless (mainly because you do have respect to yourself and others as people), but you know your Town game is flawed with tunneling.

I'll give you ONE example (aside from the one we talked about in the PM after a certain game): Wake's Role Madness. I'm not going t put the blame on anyone, but Elyse ended up winning the game as a 3P SK in a 42-players setup with you making the final what? 10-12?? I called her out on D1 and nobody listened, and that included YOU (and you did assume Town leadership starting D3 I believe).

Now I'm not about to discredit you or point out your weaknesses (I admit to being a MUCH weaker player if that's any consolation), but I'm never comfortable with you as a Town leader.

That being said, I think we now are in agreement that Maxous should be today's lynch regardless, so we can do that and fight afterwards.

Also -just in case my talk isn't clear- I DO enjoy playing with you. I call yours a flawed logic? Well, at least it IS some kind of LOGIC to begin with. That's much better than no input at all. At least you're trying to play the game, regardless of your alignment. I appreciate that.

Here's for reassertion:

VOTE: Maxous

[Almost50]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=68685

That game.

You scumread me for Gistou because you are still salty about it.

Who are you talking to here?? It sure isn't me, because I wasn't in that game you linked!

[Almost50]

there isn't anything you can't reveal now if you claim to have the scumteam on lock. if it would really win the game for us.

We do not have a single scum flip to build on. NOTHING. They COULD have a Framer, but that would require them guessing who Narna would check beforehand. Otherwise they may have a redirector, and that doesn't needs knowledge of the target beforehand, but needs Narna NOT to be checking on scum (in which case the probabilities are on their side because the Town has a majority still, even assuming Narna never outs his reads and picks randomly).

[Almost50]

The fact of the matter remains if I was scum I would not push inconsistencies. I would get a townie lynched. Why would scum remove someone who is obviously playing to their win Con? You need to explain why I pushed Maxous for multiple days straight as scum. Hell Maxous if telling the truth for all intents and purposes is another scum member because of his play.

No. instead you push me and make up things because you know you need me dead.

Because you thought you had him (thinking he was Town, because he is NOT on your team). When you discovered he was NOT Town you tried to stear away from him, but it's too late now, so you are coming around to the idea of lynching him.

[Almost50]

Town when I replaced in was a bunch of apathetic sad don't give two shits group.

Now everyone is playing.

As scum I manipulate and enhance weakness. Please explain to me how getting people to care and fixing the night action issues is a enhancing/exploiting a weakness?

Your slot was already in deep deep trouble, so you had to act to town it up.

[Almost50]

The problem is NOT whether to motivate the players. The question is: Are you leading them in the right direction??

My answer is NO, absolutely NOT. You put me, Chara and PV in your scum reads, and that is absolutely nonsense.

[Almost50]

If you think that is wrong explain why.

Because I received a TOWN ROLE. You can't convince me that I'm not Town no matter how hard you try. I mean, you can convince the whole site; not just the players in this game, but there are TWO people you won't ever convince and these are myself and Skullduggery!

[Almost50]

....No. That is ridiculous. As I explained already. You are bringing up bad arguments again. Go to sleep. Read a book. Do something else and come back later.

one thing throwing me off right now, Math. this isn't how i'd talk to a solid scumread of mine.

It absolutely is for me.
Almost50 is content on spamming. As town he would listen to his townreads. But since he isn't the only way to get him to stop spamming is to get him to go away so we have a productive thread.

I am not arguing with a tow read of mine! I concede everything NC said and never tried to be stubborn. On the other hand, I scum read you (well, I did scum read your slot so it's not like you suddenly made the slot look scummy or anything) so I'm being very cautious accepting anything you say, and especially so when you contradict CONFIRMED FACTS such as my OWN ALIGNMENT.

Math, go back and read your own posts. You literally accused EVERYONE ALIVE of being scum. Everyone but SirCakez that is (I'm not even sure if you did or not regarding Cakez. If you did then I don't recall it, but that makes it 100% of the players are or have been scum read by you at one point or another). Now considering you only subbed-in TODAY (as in D5) that is certainly not healthy. It's more like you've been experimenting and examining things to see who would be easier to push. You don't replace-in and suspect the entire players list and claim that you're doing it to motivate the players!!

[Almost50]

Would

a

miller return as is/was capable of killing even if they could not kill.

Nope nope nope they wouldn't

That was EXACTLY my point. "A" Miller would not. THE Miller Shiro had as a modifier would. It IS in the wiki page, just under "variants". You asked a "general question" and you got a "general" answer.

That is correct for the wiki version of Miller. However Shiro's version of Miller he explicitly said guilty on all investigations.

Exactly!

[Almost50]

@NC:

Well, not responding to you directly should've told I concede and have no argument. If I didn't I do one of two things:

1- Respond back rephrasing my argument (as I was doing with Math a few posts ago);

OR

2- Respond sarcastically ridiculing yours and making it known that I refuse to accept it.

Come on.. you still have a few things to learn about me. Maybe in our NEXT hydra game (which I'm already looking forward to)

[Almost50]

@NC:

Well, not responding to you directly should've told I concede and have no argument. If I didn't I do one of two things:

1- Respond back rephrasing my argument (as I was doing with Math a few posts ago);

OR

2- Respond sarcastically ridiculing yours and making it known that I refuse to accept it.

Come on.. you still have a few things to learn about me. Maybe in our NEXT hydra game (which I'm already looking forward to)

sure :>

but can you really fault Mathblade for thinking you weren't listening. if you didn't really respond to me?

In a way, yes I can. In another, no I can't.

You see, Math knows I respond in order of post numbers, so when I'm responding to something I don't take into account what's been posted next (and most probably am not aware of content beyond the post I'm responding to), so they should always wait for me to catch up on the same subject.

On the other hand, if yo got confused then they should. They've never been my hydra partner.

[Almost50]

the result i got is a result, but it seems my results don't differentiate between being roleblocked, and simply nothing happening that night.

Let me try to make this even clearer: Assuming you were a Tracker (which is probably not true, but is a hypothetical assumption to get the point through) you'd get "You saw NOTHING" whether

our

target had no night action or you were locked, so you cannot differentiate between the two. Am I correctly understanding this?

I hope you mean "your".

Oh you mean how you would "edit" how the three of you are together?

Funny thing you both noted the Y was missing from "Your" but overlooked the B missing in "Blocked", but keep up the good work. I'm just enjoying all this noise.

[Almost50]

At least it's clear where you edited this one. Sometimes I just can't tell where a player put their own responses at all.

P-edit:

@Creeps:

I'll give you 15 hours, mate. I'm off to bed.

[Almost50]

If we had lynched Narna, we wouldn't have lynched Leonshade for saving him or Shiro for that fake guilty.

So yes, us not lynching him really helped us a lot, didn't it.

I beg to differ, and STRONGLY so!

1- Narna flipping RED doesn't tell us anything about Leon. However, Narna flipping Green would still have been a MISLYNCH.

2- Narna could NOT have been lynched BEFORE Leonshade, because it was Leonshade who pardoned Narna on the day removing him from the voting process altogether, so "someone" had to eat rope on that day that wasn't Narna.

3- That pardon resulted in Narna giving that guilt, granted. But since there was no way to actually lynch Narna on the day before then the guilty was inevitable.

4- So, your argument can only be "if we had lynched Narna "instead" of Shiro, which would have probably resulted in a GREEN flip still, leading to the lynch of Shiro anyway.

No a better argument would have been if we didn't lynch MAGNA on D1 .. but I wasn't even in the game yet I can hardly remember who the competing wagon(s) were (I guess McMenno or maybe Narna but I'm not going to bother double-checking at this time).

Now back to the main issue: My win-con says "eliminate all non-town" and Maxous admitted to being "non-town", so yeah.. that's the ONE lynch I KNOW works for my own win-con at this time.

Also, you might want to acknowledge Maxous himself has basically given after he realized his slip having stated explicitly he was non-town and can not take it back now, so he stopped posting to avoid doing more harm to his scum team.

So: Inadvertent confession + white flag. What more do you want to get your vote in there?

[Almost50]

@Nahdia:

If we had no scum prior to Maxous lynch then who the heck has been shooting Townies at night? If it was a Ton Vig they should have c;aimed already, but nobody did.

[Almost50]

I seriously can't fucking deal with this anymore. Whatever scum faction is out there, I am

begging

you to kill me. PLEASE.

Scum: Don't listen to Nahdia, please. You should be torturing them .. for their green hair or something!

[Almost50]

...I am eating dinner before it gets cold.

Too late now. It's December and it's bound to be cold already on the Northern hemisphere!

[Almost50]

TBH if there was a culting Math makes sense as a target for it with their thread presence and generally being townread

I fail to think of something silly to add as a comment. Consider one being put here though .. in spirit!

[Almost50]

@Nahdia:

If we had no scum prior to Maxous lynch then who the heck has been shooting Townies at night? If it was a Ton Vig they should have c;aimed already, but nobody did.

My predecessor received a 1-shot FBI Agent on N2, and used it on Titus N4, which was obviously negative. I'm guessing there's a Serial Killer, though that may have been Maxous.

Bad boy, Pine. You intercepted my FUN stream of posts. *Sigh*

If there is an SK, that is "Scum" alright. I don't thing it was Maxous though. He probably would've known better than to claim he could win with Town if he was. Then again, it's a possibility. Just not highly probable IMHO.

[Almost50]

if maxous' hypothetical death cult exists then mathblade needs to be strung up immediately because they're a piss obvious choce

IF

there was a

CULT

, shouldn't we be looking for the recruit

er

rather than the recruit

ed

?

[Almost50]

Hey.

Hey guys.

Vote the mod with me.

Seriously. We lose nothing if I'm wrong.

I'm in the mood for any crazy move, just as long as it's fun and pisses no one.

VOTE: Skullduggery

[Almost50]

there's probably some logical error in my last post. i'll look at it later.

i agree with Accountant. not that we have proof one was created, i just don't think Math's 'Maxous was trolling' theory holds water. there's no reason for him to have done it.

Now that is a good point.

No cultist creator (assuming one exists) would aim at me though. That is like all kinds of terribad because of the gamestate. The point of a cult is to be hidden. So cult the megaphone makes no sense.

So we need to find the scum pre cult if you believe one exists. Flip them. They should be either cult or scum.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't a recruiting ability fail if the recruiter targets Scum??

[Almost50]

Hey.

Hey guys.

Vote the mod with me.

Seriously. We lose nothing if I'm wrong.

I already told you we tried that -_-

1- We didn't get them to the lynch threshold or beyond.

2- If we did (and I missed it) it was BEFORE the "creation of a new faction". I'm not even positively sure if the "my" in the message (as in "MY" FACTION) refers to Gaster or to Skull!! Line Pine said, we lose NOTHING.

[Almost50]

So let's try it again. There's an indication that factions have changed, mod may have entered the game.

After that, we vote Maxous again, just in case.

What do we lose?

I don't see Maxous name on the vote count anywhere anymore. What gives you the idea that we can vote a slot that's not included in a the VC? That's be pretty odd, tbh. What if Maxous flaked or requested to be replaced?? How would the mod tell us who filled in the slot so w can vote them??

OK, maybe I'm looking too close at the picture? Maybe I should take two steps back and try to see it as a whole? What am I missing?

P-edit:

OK, that was at D1. Gaster just got lynched yesterday and the new faction thing got created afterwards. No harm in eliminating that possibility in a whim.

[Almost50]

how about we just throw away most of what i said in my theory post.

the gist of it is: i won't accept any theories/courses of action that rely on the lack of a scumteam in the first half of the game. that said, a mass-culting event isn't out of the realm of possibility.

Wait! I need to get this one straight. Do we have a "mass culting" or just a "cult" now? I mean, according to your theory/best guess?

What I mean is, I though we were talking about a possible SINGLE CULTIST who would have to pick a target to recruit each night, and is prone to success or failure.

A "mass" culting though would mean we already have a faction called "The Cult" (or something similar, such as the GASTER worshipers ) who would not actually mechanically act like a cult (i.e. they'd have no ability to recruit any new members) but will have to have one member alive at the end of the game to win (in other words, a mass of survivours.. a survivour faction.. you know what I mean having played in Mastin2's Gitsou)

[Almost50]

If anyone cares my lynch pool today is Not Chara, BigYoshiFan/Pine, Pine/BigYoshiFan, and Almost50 in that order.

I refuse to be included on that list only as a 3rd runner up. I call foul play. I should be a finalist at the very least, if not

the

top top lynch candidate.

[Almost50]

Cakez, i'm just confused. seems i baffle people a lot, sorry. could someone quote Maxous saying he was using his death-ability so i can stop trawling his ISO for it? all i got from his final posts was that he was trying to get reads out before being lynched, in an attempt to avoid said lynch.

You're out of luck, kiddo. He did say it alright, but only to himself, so he was not caught on tape. I don't think any judge would accept that for evidence under sworn testimony though, so Angelina keeps the children and Brad only gets visiting rights. Case closed. Next.

[Almost50]

I'll make one too: Not Chara, Almost50, Pine, and MathBlade,

Oh, then I'll make one myself: Not Chara (not really), BigYoshi, Pine, and MathBlade.

@Chara:

Quick! Jump in and replace your name by mine. It looks like THIS is the game now, and whoever messes it up and puts the wrong entries eats rope. HURRY!

[Almost50]

is there some sort of scum utility to pretending i'm blind? which i am, evidently.

No, just an inconsistency, which I guess is scummy.
I don't find it as incriminating as others do, but I do find it scummy nonetheless.

And BAD BOY BYF also deides to spoil the fun, forcing me to do a serious post! (I'm not amused)

INCONSISTENCY =/= Scummy. In fact, inconsistency is far more likely to come fro TOWN as they're:

a- Not planning a head much, and
b- have their reads and theories updated by he minute

Scum on the other hand plan ahead and make sure they know what they're saying before they do it lest they get caught in an outright contradiction. At least GOOD Scum do.

[Almost50]

i'm pretty sure the Gaster wingdings messages were written by Skullduggery, and are posted whenever Gaster's abilities are activated.

Did we establish exactly how these were activated, or did you just imply that you know his abilities? Or am I just looking into this too deep?

Considering Maxous was 3P who -by definition- worked alone up until he got lynched I don't see how anyone would "imply they just know shit about his role". I think you're pushing it too far here and just mud slinging for mud slinging at the moment.

[Almost50]

1) why can't I kill?
2) when did math bring out the alcohol?
3) because I don't trust you.

What's your result?

1- Bwahahahahahaha
2- ROTFL
3-

Answer to final question:

[Almost50]

I would pick pv for durability and Ank for power if I were culting/picking another scumteam.

How about me for silliness? Every vellainous squad must include some silly/stupid/goofy. Don't even let me start giving examples.

[Almost50]

If anyone cares my lynch pool today is Not Chara, BigYoshiFan/Pine, Pine/BigYoshiFan, and Almost50 in that order.

I refuse to be included on that list only as a 3rd runner up. I call foul play. I should be a finalist at the very least, if not

the

top top lynch candidate.

Too bad. They are my reads. If you really want to be lynched brag about how you did it all. If anything Not Chara is likely the mastermind not you.

Alright!

Yaaaaay! I DID IT!! I did it, I did it, I did it. And I'm not ashamed to admit it too. In fact, I'm proud about the fact I had the skill and courage to do it.

P.S. Did what??

[Almost50]

This is dumb reasoning because it doesn't explain why Math is scum

I hope your proposed rule doesn't also ban dumb reasoning, because it mostly is what I have to offer. I'm never good a presenting the reasoning behind my vote in a shiny attractive way.

[Almost50]

While this is hilarious it is not scumhunting people.

It was meant to be, but Chara was too smart to fall for it.

You see, I told them to replace their name with mine, when it should've been Yoshi's. Had they done it they would have actually been the one who "put the wrong entries in their list" and thus would've been my lynch vote. *Shrug*

[Almost50]

That said A50 and Narna are still scumfucks who need death

[Almost50]

we weren't that great in Death Note, haha.

Don't remind me. Ank caught us for the wrong reasons, and yet -somehow- managed to do a F*** all and hand it to the SK I caught on D1.

[Almost50]

Still present. Look at my lynch list.

You only have me there in a cameo appearance. That won't win me a Grammy/Oscar.

[Almost50]

I gotta leave in an hour and before I gotta eat dinner. Might be back, might not. See ya!

Eating dinner is scummy, and much more so when you don't specify it's contents or even verify it is YOUR dinner you're eating. I think you just scum slipped all the way to the moon, pal.

[Almost50]

Almost, are you voting anyone? i can't remember.

I don't remember either.

Wait! I'm voting Skull.

Ok.. let me try this instead:

@Skull: Would pushing YOU to the lynch threshold (or threshold +1) result in an end of day?

[Almost50]

Almost, your plans never fail to surprise and render me speechless with how little they make sense to me. ;>

My dear. I'm proudly the smartest of my siblings. Hold on a second. I'm a lonely child, am I not?? Scratch that then.

[Almost50]

While this is hilarious it is not scumhunting people.

It was meant to be, but Chara was too smart to fall for it.

You see, I told them to replace their name with mine, when it should've been Yoshi's. Had they done it they would have actually been the one who "put the wrong entries in their list" and thus would've been my lynch vote. *Shrug*

I don't get it.

Sorry! It's only apparently visual to the FAITHFUL though, so you need to REPENT and RENEW your FAITH!

[Almost50]

Ok, cool. Now that we KNOW Skull cannot be lynched we can resume our transmission as per usual. Wo should I be coting (for real) and WHY (don't reiterate what you already said. I have read it all. I want you to CONVINCE ME to vote this particular person and never move until they are lynched.

[Almost50]

FTR; I would vote Yoshi for eating dinner, but I'm skeptical. He still may have been derp Town who just got hungry. *Shrug*