Mini Normal 1719 - Flavorless Fun! [Game Over!]

mykonian · Post Post #8 (isolation #0) » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:08 am

what were you trying to do there, soze?

mykonian · Post Post #12 (isolation #1) » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:37 am

In post 11, herrcombs wrote:
In post 9, Haschel Cedricson wrote:
Vote: herrcombs
. He knows why.

Nope. Why's that?

ooooh someone is lying here. Fun!

mykonian · Post Post #16 (isolation #2) » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:35 pm

In post 15, Haschel Cedricson wrote:
In post 12, mykonian wrote:ooooh someone is lying here. Fun!
It's him.

yay!

Lynch all Liar's

vote herr combs

mykonian · Post Post #20 (isolation #3) » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:57 pm

In post 18, herrcombs wrote:lolwut

I was just joking

but now that scumslip. This is actually interesting.

mykonian · Post Post #34 (isolation #4) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:57 am

In post 26, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:VOTE: Dier

Wagon!

wrong one.

mykonian · Post Post #37 (isolation #5) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:46 am

we could be out of rvs right now.

You know, why not.

Garmr already committed a scumtell trying to call someone town. There's no need for the word "honestly" there, it only makes sense from a point where scum is trying to think like town. The word "honestly" implies that he comes from a setting where he was prepared to lie this game, then found a situation where it wasn't necessary. Add to this that he's stepping in to protect someone from an accusation and that little sentence becomes quite damning. Buddying and at the same time showing off his mindset is scummy.

So dwlee, are we out of rvs?

mykonian · Post Post #51 (isolation #6) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:07 am

In post 37, mykonian wrote:we could be out of rvs right now.

You know, why not.

Garmr already committed a scumtell trying to call someone town. There's no need for the word "honestly" there, it only makes sense from a point where scum is trying to think like town. The word "honestly" implies that he comes from a setting where he was prepared to lie this game, then found a situation where it wasn't necessary. Add to this that he's stepping in to protect someone from an accusation and that little sentence becomes quite damning. Buddying and at the same time showing off his mindset is scummy.

So dwlee, are we out of rvs?

In post 39, Dwlee99 wrote:So saying he doesn't see anything scummy is a scum tell? Okay, totally.

how is that your conclusion after that post. It's not even close to the message I put up there.

Think that took 2 pages to make everything dwlee says worthless for me from now on. If your first response to a post is to see how you can pull it out of context and make a sarcastic remark, I don't have a clue what you are doing here. Meanwhile his vote is a hard omgus. Fun one. First makes him worthless town, second worthless scum. Hope he's not on my team.

mykonian · Post Post #52 (isolation #7) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:08 am

In post 43, Keyser Söze wrote:I do not understand this question :

In post 8, mykonian wrote:what were you trying to do there, soze?

first post looked like a misquote, didn 't really understand what was going on.

mykonian · Post Post #53 (isolation #8) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:09 am

In post 38, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:But you're voting Herrcombs...

I don't see how this matters.

mykonian · Post Post #55 (isolation #9) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:29 am

oh god it can read.

was that so hard, dear?

and gosh, a page 2 case when the biggest thing that happened otherwise are your omgus (which it was, shut up) and herr's laughing off isn't lynch worthy. Call the papers.

mykonian · Post Post #57 (isolation #10) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:51 am

In post 56, herrcombs wrote:Not sure why you felt you had to manipulate mykonian's 37 to get your point across.

Because I don't take kindly to this. Nor do I think should you.

You are the 3rd to comment on it by now (so it's pretty obvious), and manipulating isn't seen favorably anyway. What does that say about how dwlee thinks about the people in this game that he thinks he can get that past us?

For one I would have enjoyed a fair discussion. And secondly I am not very pleased by the implication that dwlee, who doesn't look like the sharpest knife in the drawer, thinks he's the smartest of the bunch here.

mykonian · Post Post #61 (isolation #11) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:10 am

In post 60, implosion wrote:Basically it feels like scum who wanted to vote myko and was justifying it after the fact of deciding that.

I'd err on the side of caution with that read.

I do enjoy your analysis.

mykonian · Post Post #63 (isolation #12) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:19 am

Doesn't really matter feli. It's a glorified gut read and it's wrong.

mykonian · Post Post #65 (isolation #13) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:01 am

In post 64, Felissan wrote:It's not a gut read anymore since I caught up to post 34, and you saying it's wrong just doesn't bring anything to the table.

oh, I know that. Implosions analysis is correct though. You point out things you don't like.

And don't think I haven't seen it before. In my games, I'm the constant. Cases like your pop up. I tick people off and I'm aware of that. Which is why you get cases based with things you can put your finger on, but can't really go on and explain why scum would do them either. You can try and you probably get somewhere if you tried hard, but it's a bit of a struggle. Which is why implosion can point out that he dislikes your case because you are mostly showing where I'm weird.

Now, odds are that you aren't scum with that though. They don't tend to make that case early on. Which is why it's probably better to err on the side of caution, while he's right in his analysis. I ticked you off and you tried to find a case that justified that gut read, and it's not very good.

Which is why it's pretty hard to dislike implosion here. He's reading the game and catching what's off, that's a good start for a townread. He might be buddying but then I'm a sucker for that anyway.

mykonian · Post Post #70 (isolation #14) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:11 am

In post 68, Dwlee99 wrote:Already addressed the manipulation part and now you just insult my intelligence and are trying to make me look like a jerk

Not quite sure why you are surprised. Take em as you dish em out. You don't have to like me and I sure as hell don't like you.

mykonian · Post Post #74 (isolation #15) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:32 am

well garmr sucks

vote garmr

herr's 67 seems town. He doesn't look particulary devious either. Probably should go on the townlist then.

mykonian · Post Post #77 (isolation #16) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:41 am

looks like soze was right about you.

mykonian · Post Post #79 (isolation #17) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:49 am

yes herr that's nice and all.

we just had a page 4 player by player analysis by a player that doesn't understand the pace of the game and moreover is confused by it. I think there's more important stuff to talk about than dwlee's mess.

mykonian · Post Post #82 (isolation #18) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:24 pm

In post 80, herrcombs wrote:I don't know what to make of Hieirama's page 4 read list there.

she's telling you. "I'm still trying to comprehend what's going on…"

now this one is a bit easier to understand than the muck around "honestly", so hear me out.

There are 2 times in the whole game where scum are stressed out. This is the start of the game, and lylo. Start of the game, everybody is on their own and trying to figure out where this game is going to go. Come lylo, every townie is going to second guess themselves a couple of times and it becomes really hard to predict where they put their money (how do they think they were being fooled so far etc). In between it's easy, you can sort of tell where town is going to go, know what the possible lynches are, play accordingly. But first appearances count and it's hard to get it right.

Now the pace of this game isn't amazing, but it's now slow either. There are some people with reads and it's going underway. Hier is about to miss the boat, and still doesn't know how to respond properly. Normal town wouldn't care, you just see the last couple of posts and comment on it. So we have someone here who wants to watch which way the wind blows, and as such stands out compared to the tempo of the townies we've seen so far. That's scumtell one.

The second is the list itself. There are two reasons to make lists. One's to get organised and present otherwise cluttered info. The other is to make sure you actually get something posted beyond a oneliner. This is the last. Page 4, too little has happened that commenting to 1 or 2 events wouldn't do. There's no use at all to post that for half of the game, you don't have a read yet. Again, hier's perfectly aware there should be a post from her here. By absence of something comfortable to post about, the safety of a rigid structure is sought and found in posting a list with a little bit non-information about everybody. At least that way you get something on first sight good looking posted. But it makes no sense to do it when we've had barely 2 pages of non rvs posting.

I guess if you look hard you could even find support for the last in that

mykonian · Post Post #83 (isolation #19) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:26 pm

EBWOP

"I guess if you look hard you could even find support for the last in that she promises to update this list."

mykonian · Post Post #85 (isolation #20) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:56 pm

"so he was in effect defending me."

"trying to call someone town"

I did that from memory, didn't use exact quotes. Effect is the same, conclusions as well.

Since when did I call dw worthless for just omgus? I was quite thorough with that insult. If he's town there was no reason to reply to my post as he did. If he's scum that omgus was pretty poor for him. All in all, he's made two actions now that make him shit regardless of role.

regarding my vote, I don't really care. Could have put it down at the first time garmr looked scum, did it at the second time. His vote was by far the worst of the bunch and it was about time scum joined my wagon. Just compare feli's vote to garmr's and tell me you can't see the difference. Your play is fine. His isn't.

That's 2 scum for now, I think I'm happy with that. Night, people.

mykonian · Post Post #103 (isolation #21) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:14 pm

In post 97, implosion wrote:
In post 96, Garmr wrote:Also you should quit before you burn youself if there's a wagon between you and me your the one getting lynched.

This feels town.

no it doesn't.

Second time he posted he "always uses the word honestly" (my words) as well.

And I'd like to repeat my argument. There are 3 votes on me. Feli's is one I see all the time, tries to reason, bad conclusion. Happens. Herr's play is fine surrounding it. Garmr has mainly defensive posts and has only argued against me, tacks his vote on the wagon. Garmr is scum.

mykonian · Post Post #104 (isolation #22) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:15 pm

oi soze. Time to have some results, buddy. Some questions there are only there to have questions.

mykonian · Post Post #105 (isolation #23) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:34 pm

In post 89, Hieirama wrote:Should I go back to lurking or?

you are a born winner.

mykonian · Post Post #107 (isolation #24) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:39 pm

In post 99, Keyser Söze wrote:mykonian, did you answer my question (I did not understand the Garmr-"scumtell" observation"):

yes.

In post 85, mykonian wrote:"so he was in effect defending me."

"trying to call someone town"

I did that from memory, didn't use exact quotes. Effect is the same, conclusions as well.

mykonian · Post Post #108 (isolation #25) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:39 pm

so. Results?

mykonian · Post Post #110 (isolation #26) » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:51 pm

In post 22, Lalendra wrote:
In post 20, mykonian wrote:
In post 18, herrcombs wrote:lolwut

I was just joking

but now that scumslip. This is actually interesting.

I'm clearly missing something. How is that a scum slip?

In post 24, Garmr wrote:Honestly don't see anything scummy so far

Think he skipped implosions post.

mykonian · Post Post #114 (isolation #27) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:06 am

In post 112, Keyser Söze wrote:If it was a geniune scum-slip by herrcombs (I am still uncomfortable with that exchange between Haschel Cedricson-herrcombs) do you think his scum-partner (Gamr) would jump in to defend herrcombs straight away?

The keyword "honestly" is him stepping out of his role and coming with an opinion that he can see is true. So he comes from the mindset where he has to lie (as scum), then finds a situation where it isn't necessary. Herr's town and got falsely accused, garmr comments on it and shows his hand.

It would never work if herr's scum (since he'd be lying). They can't be buddies if the argument holds.

And even if you don't care about the motivation stuff, just look at garmr's overall posting. This is not the only passive post, the only aggression is pushing back against me. Garmr hasn't shown any initiative this game, has posted a couple of defensive posts.

mykonian · Post Post #115 (isolation #28) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:20 am

so soze. You are still sitting on a dwlee vote. This seems outdated. Not saying you should vote garmr. But at least vote hier then who more or less claimed scum with her reply.

mykonian · Post Post #117 (isolation #29) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:30 am

In post 116, Keyser Söze wrote:I thought you scum-read herrcombs through your reachy-comment: "now that scumslip. This is actually interesting."

I did. That was page one. Stuff happened after that, I no longer do!

The "honestly" tell is ancient. From before my time. Depends a bit on the player and is probably not reliable on it's own. Did like it in combination with the buddying (also because they overlap). When I did post about it I had been planning to keep it in the back of my head to look at garmr for a while. But the game was too boring.

mykonian · Post Post #119 (isolation #30) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:54 am

In post 118, Hieirama wrote:I'm not sure how that's scum-oriented?

Some of them have more trouble to get into a game. For town it's pretty natural to just see the last post and talk about what you think of it. Scum have more considerations. Your post was decidedly not natural, it stands out.

mykonian · Post Post #130 (isolation #31) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:43 am

unofficial vc.

mykonian (4): Felissan, herrcombs, Garmr, Lalendra
Garmr (3): mykonian, BBT, pistache
Keyser Söze (2): Dwlee99, Dierfire
herrcombs (1): Haschel Cedricson
Felissan (1): implosion
hier (1): soze

mykonian · Post Post #132 (isolation #32) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:45 am

eh, give it time. Lack of heir wagon is more worrying.

mykonian · Post Post #136 (isolation #33) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:51 am

In post 133, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Heir wagon?

complicated name - starts with H - is rather scummy.

mykonian · Post Post #138 (isolation #34) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:53 am

oh yes, I don't mind either

mykonian · Post Post #143 (isolation #35) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:45 am

that had little to do with his role, more with him misreading the game.

mykonian · Post Post #145 (isolation #36) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:04 am

that can't be your only post for this hour. Need a little more dier.

mykonian · Post Post #149 (isolation #37) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:18 am

not too fussed, but that post was a bit bland. Didn't really say all that much.

We could talk about garmrs vote or hiers response to being accused to me, I think both of those are interesting. Could also consider bbt's posts in light of implosion, but that's a bit harder to get info from.

mykonian · Post Post #150 (isolation #38) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:19 am

I guess soze's vote is fun too.

mykonian · Post Post #154 (isolation #39) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:27 am

about hier: I was thinking the second, yes, but either works

mykonian · Post Post #156 (isolation #40) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:25 am

yes, that's what he says as well, it's omgus. :/

mykonian · Post Post #160 (isolation #41) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:24 am

In post 158, implosion wrote:What is the scum motivation for this? It pretty much just invites/instigates myko to tunnel him forever. It seems way too cocky to reasonably post as scum when myko is the most active poster in the game. I can't imagine him posting this as scum who thinks that it'll get myko off his back. I can't imagine him posting it as scum who is so overconfident that they want to boast. If I see a good justification for scum posting this then I might join the Garmr wagon.

Momentum was decently against me at that point (decently quick wagon, 4 votes), and such wagons have gotten steam before, could have happened here. Dwlee pushes against it and by 120/121 from bbt, momentum is lost. I am pretty sure that sentence is garmr thinking he's in the winning position as long as I push against him, since people voted me for it. A high postcount isn't always beneficial for one's survival. So don't think garmr thinks he can get me off him, I think he believes he can get me lynched.

mykonian · Post Post #162 (isolation #42) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:44 am

still boring, guys

mykonian · Post Post #165 (isolation #43) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:48 am

In post 163, Dwlee99 wrote:Still doesn't explain the manipulation of my post, keyser.

dude, I'm not voting you either. Move on.

mykonian · Post Post #167 (isolation #44) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:08 am

Julien, you disappoint me

mykonian · Post Post #172 (isolation #45) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:01 pm

who wants to play "find the scumtell"?

mykonian · Post Post #204 (isolation #46) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:03 pm

In post 199, implosion wrote:I'm particularly interested to see mykonian's take on the claim, incidentally.

I dislike that it was lead by a softclaim.

I call bullshit on his mention that he doesn't mind to be lynched: then what was the purpose of a claim there?

mykonian · Post Post #206 (isolation #47) » Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:09 pm

I think by now I know what that post says.

I still don't understand what you mean by it.

mykonian · Post Post #208 (isolation #48) » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:03 am

yup. We should lynch him.

mykonian · Post Post #210 (isolation #49) » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:42 am

nonono

you are going to post some more

mykonian · Post Post #212 (isolation #50) » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:50 am

there's been 9 pages of stuff. Pick something. Not just a wishy washy post about how you can't make a decision yet.

mykonian · Post Post #218 (isolation #51) » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:39 am

In post 215, Lalendra wrote:Most of myko's posts have been crap. I'm not into posting fluff. When I have something to say, I'll say it. Yeah there's 9 pages, but most of it is garbage, and we still have plenty of time left in this day phase, so I'm waiting for more developments.

And somehow I have 2 cases out there, 2.5 scumreads I have talked about, found a couple of townreads of which some I've mentioned that. Of the three current wagons, I've spawned 2, and the third is people pushing back on me. I daresay the above gives an unfair impression of either my efforts, as well as the opportunities lalendra had to post "something worth saying".

Re: herr. I think it's a fakeclaim, given the way it's set up and the air of not caring around the actual claim. Although I would like to hear more from lalendra, haschel and possible pistache, I don't see why you'd want to go to a deadline when you've found the lynch you wanted 3 days in. Garmr is still on 4 votes, it'll take a little longer before it would actually be finished, but at that point I'm happy with this day. As mentioned above, I've got a set of reads so far and am quite content. I do not understand the notion of slowing down because there's more time available.

mykonian · Post Post #220 (isolation #52) » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:22 am

Do you actually believe we've learned jack shit so far, or is that just a figure of speech?

Idk, I don't see this wagon completing tomorrow (though I wouldn't mind it), simply because of the active players they are sitting partially on another viable wagon (hier), partially they are opposed (garmr-lalendra). Then there's a bunch inactive (feli-haschel for example). So before we actually get stuff together to push it through, you'll have at least a week of game time, probably more. I don't think there's any reason for panic, but in similar light I don't see why it's such an issue to voice ones intention to see this wagon through to the end.

Before that time simply given logistics, you'll have had most people talk, or they've had their opportunity. The fact that Lalendra doesn't want to post anything substantial is information in itself. There's no reason to conciously hit the breaks.

mykonian · Post Post #222 (isolation #53) » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:36 am

This game hasn't been normal, pace-wise. Don't worry.

mykonian · Post Post #229 (isolation #54) » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:21 am

oh welp.

have you played before hier? (also don't know if it was you or someone else, but that word I can pronounce. So I use that)

mykonian · Post Post #230 (isolation #55) » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:31 am

I'm not a patient man so a messy quote it'll be.

In post 227, Hieirama wrote:
In post 177, Garmr wrote:Tbh you can lynch me I'm not really an important power role just a bullet proof townie I was trying to draw attention to get someone to night kill me with a soft power role claim before but now I don't really care. My care factor for this game is zero. Because I didn't think anyone would be that retarded and mentally handicapped to follow with myko because of the word honestly.

It would've been better if you haven't claimed.
Even if you're actually BP it was a really anti-town move.
Going anti-town just because of frustration really isn't a nice thing to do.

Ok. Not sure why you assume he's town in this. You are. Analysis is good, assumption seems off. Could be a scumtell but it's really blatant in that case. You could talk more about this.

In post 194, herrcombs wrote:
In post 180, Hieirama wrote:The popular

In post 24, Garmr wrote:
Honestly don't see anything scummy so far

wins my interest. Not really the quote itself, but on how much attention its given.

OK. So what interests you about it? Do you think the attention it's getting is revealing any information? Are any of your reads from 76 developing as a result?

I thought the stretchy attention from Myko was just to get the game going, but it seems serious now…
I could see this as myko and two other scum building up from a small unimportant remark from Garmr, and the stress perhaps caused him to stress out and make that claim.

So if we Lynch Garmr, in my eyes its more of a policy Lynch…

3 scum just pushing a townie doesn't happen. Sometimes 3 end up in the same place, but organised pushes are near unheard of, and hard to organise. This makes me think you haven't exactly played all that much mafia, and even then I'm not sure why you take this explanation over any other simpler one. Why does it take an entire conspiracy to lynch someone who hasn't posted any analysis, has posted several defensive posts, and has made a dodgy claim (as you yourself so neatly explained).

I do have a policy of lynching people I think scum. I don't know why you call it a policy lynch, or construe it as if garmr's only scumtell has been his post on the first page. This hasn't been the case.

mykonian · Post Post #233 (isolation #56) » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:32 pm

It's the most curious thing. You assume he's town then the scumtells aren't genuine.

that's the wrong way around!

mykonian · Post Post #238 (isolation #57) » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:34 pm

you explain his posts from the point where you already assume he's town.

why don't you read his posts and try to find his allignment?

mykonian · Post Post #249 (isolation #58) » Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:09 am

In post 248, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:What makes you think this is scum and not newb town?

hadn't considered it at that point.

the tell does work for newb scum but itsn't as watertight.

The thing that's really throwing me for a loop here is hier's view of the garmr's case. If she's (this is starting to bother me btw, are you a he or a she?) scum it's so incredibly blatant. I can't think of someone who'd play on ms for a couple of games who didn't run into a scum getting caught via defending a town too hard, it's just something that has been meta for a while now.

Hard is a shortcut btw. Where defense of a player goes from arguing why you think they are town to scum buddying and faking it is that scum tends to come from the position where they already know said person is town. As soon as that becomes obvious, said scum tends to get into trouble... and hier here does it without even considering alternatives. When you catch scum with it, you push the accused harder and at some point it transitions from just arguing into knowing they are town and using that. Here hier basically starts out from that viewpoint.

why? I don't have a clue.

mykonian · Post Post #253 (isolation #59) » Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:44 am

oh, you have to be able to see the pattern now. Garmr's response to being run up has been one of frustration. He starts out confident but as that happens we start with threats, it actually backfires, he retracts from the game with his claim and how he doesn't care. Insults were just the next thing to be expected. He doesn't have any arguments and his little mind has no other ways of dealing with this than to become personal.

I think looking for a motivation behind such posts is a waste of time. It hasn't come from a rational choice. It just shows you what kind of person garmr is.

mykonian · Post Post #264 (isolation #60) » Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:16 am

In post 263, implosion wrote:
In post 253, mykonian wrote:He doesn't have any arguments and his little mind has no other ways of dealing with this than to become personal.

You know, you responding by insulting him doesn't exactly give you the moral high ground.

Never claimed to be a saint. My interaction with dwlee should already have changed your expectations.

Because morals are nice and all in gd but they have nothing to do with this. After garmr throws the towel 3 days into this game, "needs a break" the best thing he can come up with is to call his main attacker names. Beyond what this says about garmr as a person, in this game it's a clear sign of impotence. It's just more defensive posting, it doesn't even pretend to be scumhunting, just this time he doesn't even bother breaking his head over coming up with arguments.

So why do you bother telling me to become a better person, in stead of just playing the game and voting garmr?

mykonian · Post Post #296 (isolation #61) » Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:38 am

Haha. BBT pushes garmr and now he's suddenly scum as well!

this is brilliant

mykonian · Post Post #302 (isolation #62) » Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:36 am

not feli.

mykonian · Post Post #310 (isolation #63) » Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:47 am

Not quite sure why you are letting garmr off after a poorly executed fakeclaim and half a case on a (former) lurker.

After that, nothing changed, his posting is still very defensive. Just do a count of his posts, which of them is actually interested in the people around him.

mykonian · Post Post #318 (isolation #64) » Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:18 am

now that is a lovely town post by implosion.

Still not going to lynch feli. He's town too.

mykonian · Post Post #320 (isolation #65) » Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:29 am

In post 311, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Because I felt like I was borderline policy-lynching him. His claim will sort itself out at some point, if not, we can look at it another time.

Since when were we just lynching him for being incompetent?

You and I both know that claim didn't make his case any better.

mykonian · Post Post #339 (isolation #66) » Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:37 am

In post 338, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I don't think I have seen a set-up with a BP that isn't included in those three scenarios.

it's not unheard of.

mykonian · Post Post #344 (isolation #67) » Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:01 am

In post 340, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:What are your thoughts on the late jumpers onto the Garmr wagon?

sheer delight

mykonian · Post Post #345 (isolation #68) » Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:06 am

In all seriousness, lalendra is obviously a bit iffy. Not sure where to go with her, but decidedly not comfortable with her. Dwlee is fine.

mykonian · Post Post #358 (isolation #69) » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:17 am

In post 357, Dierfire wrote:and the claim makes less sense from a Mafia player than from a Town player

"hey I'm pr"
"why are you still alive"
"guess they didn't want to shoot a bp"

where's the downside for scum exactly?

Beyond that, he sets it up badly, his actual claim is followed up by feigning that he doesn't care if he's lynched or not.

I'd be so incredibly happy if we got 2 stories out of this game. One that it's a policy lynch, and two that that claim was any good.

mykonian · Post Post #387 (isolation #70) » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:43 pm

that wasn't worth waiting for.

mykonian · Post Post #391 (isolation #71) » Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:05 am

yup, I could follow that vote.

mykonian · Post Post #401 (isolation #72) » Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:14 am

In post 399, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Dwlee, you should absolutely vote for Pistachion. We're approaching the point of the game where we need a flip to progress further.

this is where I want herr to come in to complain about quicklynches and how there's more info to be gained

mykonian · Post Post #403 (isolation #73) » Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:22 am

that's not a funny joke.

anyway, might as well put my money where my mouth is.

vote pistache

mykonian · Post Post #426 (isolation #74) » Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:51 pm

I am here.

mykonian · Post Post #441 (isolation #75) » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:42 am

Now that's an interesting kill. For one because I would have guessed someone else to go, for two because implosion was the odd man out of the obvtown group when considering his reads.

Reread a bit and you can disagree with me here, but I don't think implosion was killed for his suspicions. He kept his reads close and given that feli's slot is the one replaced, I don't think that person gets a major say in the NK straight away. He came back on his dier read and anyway that's a common one. I think someone saw a pr tell there or scum had other motives with their kill.

BBT, I want your opinion on this.

mykonian · Post Post #452 (isolation #76) » Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:04 am

In post 443, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
In post 441, mykonian wrote:Now that's an interesting kill. For one because I would have guessed someone else to go, for two because implosion was the odd man out of the obvtown group when considering his reads.

Reread a bit and you can disagree with me here, but I don't think implosion was killed for his suspicions. He kept his reads close and given that feli's slot is the one replaced, I don't think that person gets a major say in the NK straight away. He came back on his dier read and anyway that's a common one. I think someone saw a pr tell there or scum had other motives with their kill.

BBT, I want your opinion on this.

I think it kind of makes sense? I don't think there was a single person scum reading implosion so, yeah, killing obvtown makes sense.

Usually, I think the NK on night one points to that persons reads being good - I want to have a look over this and see what implosion's final thoughts/reads were. However, I am acutely aware that there are people in this game who would be well aware of how I would approach the NK so I'm already somewhat hesitant to add any weight to it.

I'm also wondering why you asked me specifically.

VOTE: Dier

This should happen today.

There were more obvtown. He wasn't killed for his reads. He wasn't in a forcing position in the town. There's something else is going on. Anyway, keeping that in mind.

asking you becase you tend to make sense. And you didn't die.

Garmr should die a fiery death as well. Dier is in my blind spot, can't complain.

vote garmr

.

Good question about reads, I didn't reread over the night so I'm a bit out of it. Disliked the hammer on top of the rest of the play but idk. You know what I think there.

Hier I want to scumread. So much makes sense to me as scum but she's so, incredibly, blatant. Still dislike lalendra. lee and mean are town. I know what people saw in feli but I think it came from a good mindset. Haschel is the biggest worry, he knows what he's doing and he's not making moves.

Issue here is the kill. Makes me rather paranoid.

mykonian · Post Post #453 (isolation #77) » Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:08 am

yeah actually fuck that dier vote. Look at yesterday and tell me garmr isn't obvious scum. I'm stuck in that tunnel for good reasons. He didn't achieve anything but somehow does want to hammer. Lives on a badly executed fakeclaim.

mykonian · Post Post #456 (isolation #78) » Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:24 am

In post 455, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Also Myko, talk to me about 393.

looks good, town timing. I'm fine with it, all issues you can have with soze is his wooley playstyle.

In post 454, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Talk to me about your thoughts on the kill Myko.

It's wrong. Someone should be worried.

If Dier is in your blind spot, why are you doing nothing about it?

not my place to do. Nothing stands out to me, he doesn't really stand out.

I'm really not digging your tunnel on Garmr (See what I did there?)

you are wrong and you know it.

mykonian · Post Post #459 (isolation #79) » Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:32 am

Yeah garmr is whatever. Everybody knows where he stands, eliminating me doesn't mean he's off the chopping block.

not sure what you want with your other post. I'm not going to call soze scum for that post, I think I've said enough about the kill for this moment, and I don't know how a shitty scumclaim makes garmr magically town.

mykonian · Post Post #460 (isolation #80) » Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:38 am

I could iso dier a couple more times but meh. Boring. Not seeing why we'd lynch him right now.

I do think we gave haschel too much leeway day one. That's more than an old player lurk, that's a scummy one.

mykonian · Post Post #527 (isolation #81) » Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:15 pm

In post 525, Keyser Söze wrote:But does the bad execution effect the legitimacy of the claim?

what else am I testing for??? I'm not saying garmr is bad at mafia for that claim. I am saying he's scummy for it.

In post 525, Keyser Söze wrote:Can you explain this? You want focus on Dierfire but you do not want to personally look at him?

it's not my place to make him make standout posts. He's a grey mouse right now. He's not lurking. Two different things.

In post 523, Keyser Söze wrote:Scum-read/found scum-tells in Gamr's play majority of D1 - I felt this was where his 'mouth' was. Need to see why/where mykonian scum-read Pistachion.

somewhere around bbt's/implosions vote I mentioned that I liked the wagon and could join it.

I like lalendra's page 21. I'm not going to read the meanmelter/garmr exchange. I know what's in it. I know those quotes. I see the same response from garmr.

I'm pleased with where this day goes.

mykonian · Post Post #528 (isolation #82) » Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:27 pm

about your hier read lalendra, I think it's worth it to do some additional research. You could be right and she's newb scum, but it could also be a personality thing of someone who thinks the water in the pool is cold and keeps standing by the side. It's just a bit too blatant for it to be really scummy, I think scum has more incentive to avoid it. But then, I didn't put in that extra time to read some of hier's games yet

mykonian · Post Post #532 (isolation #83) » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:00 am

I can't pronounce that.

mykonian · Post Post #533 (isolation #84) » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:22 am

hier, that can't be your only post for today.

mykonian · Post Post #535 (isolation #85) » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:28 am

In post 519, A Simple Plan wrote:
Vote Count 2.1

[3]
Garmr - Meanmelter, Dwlee99, Lalendra [L-3]

[2]
Hieirama - Dierfire, herrcombs [L-4]

[1]
Dierfire - BlueBloodedToffee [L-5]

[1]
Meanmelter - Garmr [L-5]

Not Voting -
Haschel Cedricson, Hieirama, mykonian, Keyser Söze

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline - (expired on 2015-10-17 12:30:00)

Garmr is a fine wagon obv.
Hier I can see but am not comfortable joining nor feel particulary inclined to spend time on atm. I know where the answer lies, but given other priorities I think we have a clue where she stands and if she's scum how we could figure that one.
Dier I can't see. I don't want to lynch this.
Mean is just another garmr vote on someone that's been trying to lynch him.
Haschel should be a wagon. I have to leave soonish now and if I'm not too tired after I'll try to explain why his day 1 was scummy.
Soze style bothers me but it's just that, style. Wouldn't mind if some other people formed opinions on him so I could sheep someone who looks sensible.

mykonian · Post Post #538 (isolation #86) » Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:09 am

In post 536, herrcombs wrote:And I'm not even voting for you.

you could change that!

mykonian · Post Post #550 (isolation #87) » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:29 am

In post 547, Dierfire wrote:
@Mykonian

In post 538, mykonian wrote:
In post 536, herrcombs wrote:And I'm not even voting for you.

you could change that!

You don't appear to be voting for Garmr, either (if 452 was supposed to be a vote, it didn't get counted).

ah.

MOD. By chance, are you using an automated votecounter?

mykonian · Post Post #557 (isolation #88) » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:44 am

I once spend a whole game annoying a mod because I kept forgetting to put semicolon's after my votes (which apparently that counter uses to find the actual votes?).

Sorry guys, no haschel case yet. Wasn't really in the mood to sit down and get something done this evening.

mykonian · Post Post #575 (isolation #89) » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:15 am

In post 567, Lalendra wrote:
In post 528, mykonian wrote:about your hier read lalendra, I think it's worth it to do some additional research. You could be right and she's newb scum, but it could also be a personality thing of someone who thinks the water in the pool is cold and keeps standing by the side. It's just a bit too blatant for it to be really scummy, I think scum has more incentive to avoid it. But then, I didn't put in that extra time to read some of hier's games yet

Yeah, I haven't either, it is very blatant but I also remember flailing hard in my first scum game sooo

I'm missing the panic.

also, haha, got bored waiting for me to make a case?

mykonian · Post Post #577 (isolation #90) » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:27 am

ok, by page 91, I can see how esspecially an older scummer is kind of caught out by the fact that there are already a couple of cases making waves. w/e. It's ok if someone needs more time at that point.

The second real post is 246. 10 pages in, this should have triggered me. It's a series of quotes with responses, where he manages to avoid an entire claim, a whole host of cases and persons of interest and most of his quotes are actually about agreeing with people (soze, me and implosing notably). At the end there's an unvote. Call it buddying, call it w/e, it's not scumhunting.

Then the second thing and this pinged me when I reread it, is that the most complete argument he's presented in any posts is a late day 1 argument about the use of pressure votes. It's much easier to talk about theory if you are worried how your words are going to be recieved. Hence this looks a lot more like a scummy lurk than a lurk of someone who can't keep up.

Or in other words, if I didn't want to lynch garmr, I could very well see myself voting haschel.

mykonian · Post Post #578 (isolation #91) » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:28 am

In post 576, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Keyser, Myko, Dier and Garmr.

that lynchpool sucks, dude.

Not sure why you are throwing away a day of scumhunting just to limit your lynch to an argument about the speed of a wagon.

mykonian · Post Post #584 (isolation #92) » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:51 am

I had a couple of other issues with bbt as well, but a quick meta check does look good for him. Regardless seems like something for lylo give or take. There are enough other candidates.

mykonian · Post Post #586 (isolation #93) » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:30 am

In post 585, Dierfire wrote:I think that lynching Haschel would be better than lynching Garmr, but worse than lynching Hieirama or Lalendra.

you are one of a kind. <3

mykonian · Post Post #597 (isolation #94) » Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:51 am

We have a language problem here, I think. Either you don't know what tunneling is, or I don't. The fact that you can quote so many posts is simply a function of me having a lot of posts. It's true that garmr has been my top suspect for the whole game, but he's hardly been my only one. I've voiced suspicions of other people and nuanced why they would be scum. Also found and called a couple of people town.

I'd be pretty said that should I die tonight, my entire game would be characterised as "he just wanted to lynch garmr". There's plenty of other stuff there and some of it I'm pretty sure is about right (hier's gotten a significant portion of my attention already, I think my last post about that should give you enough to discern if she's uncomfortable town or uncomfortable scum). Same with the feli townread, I know this wasn't popular but I'd be pretty sad if it were forgotten.

mykonian · Post Post #609 (isolation #95) » Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:46 am

Can we just make the observation that hier argues from the point where she already knows garmr is town, then finds the arguments to go with it? After that little has to be said there, I think.

I know it's scummy, I know it should get lynched, I don't know how someone got to play this game and not avoid it as a tell, I don't understand why it is happening.

mykonian · Post Post #613 (isolation #96) » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:23 am

In post 612, Hieirama wrote:Fgs I triggered the defense tell again?
//tiny rant
I'm going to defend people until they give me a reason not to.

You never had an original reason to think he was town. (but by all means, if I missed it, kindly quote it). It's always a situation someone saw as scummy, then in your opinion garmr is town and you try to find a town explanation for it.

So as long as you keep defending him and you don't give any of us a clue why you even know he's town, yeah, you'll keep triggering that tell.

mykonian · Post Post #628 (isolation #97) » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:18 am

In post 624, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:As a side note, if Garmr flips scum I'm going to hate myself forever. I'm sticking to my guns, and my gut, that he is town.

If he flips town I'll hate you as well. Your gut is give or take the fact that he gets pushed so hard.

Which makes this day pretty awkward tbf. Haschel isn't here, you and hier want to believe that garmr isn't a bad boy after all.

But fair enough, you dislike feli/mean (yer wrong) and me, so that wagon is bad.

How about lalendras then? And the no lynch bench isn't looking pretty either.

mykonian · Post Post #635 (isolation #98) » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:18 am

In post 632, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I believe Garmr is likely town, which means it's between you, Dier or Keyser for today's lynch.

This is the world on it's head. Lalendra isn't there, haschel isn't, you even somehow see garmr as town. Keyser is at best a middle of the pack read, dier hasn't done anything spectacular, I'm town. Those are actual reads. Not "well we had a mislynched, there must be scum at the end of it but it can't be garmr because he's a koala". After 25 pages you need to have something better. Make a case on dier or soze. Hell, try your hand on me, god knows there are posts for each of us. Can't just lynch on not believing that the wagon was all town. It probably wasn't, but the trick isn't in believing that, it's finding the scum amongst them.

Or in other words, this lynchpool sucks. You should know better.

In post 633, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
In post 609, mykonian wrote:Can we just make the observation that hier argues from the point where she already knows garmr is town, then finds the arguments to go with it? After that little has to be said there, I think.

I know it's scummy, I know it should get lynched, I don't know how someone got to play this game and not avoid it as a tell, I don't understand why it is happening.

I agree with this so I have to ask - WHAT THE FUCK ARE STILL DOING PUSHING GARMR IF YOU THINK THIS IS THE CASE?????? Like, you're basically saying 'I think Hieirama is scum who knows Garmr is town, so I'm going to lynch Garmr because I'm scum reading him and then if he flips town I'm going to lynch Hieirama because he clearly knew Garmr was town before we lynched him.' Seriously, what the fuck dude?

I've explained my hier read before. Also garmr is scummy in his own right. He's somehow halfway day 2 without any serious reads and there are 2 people doing everything in their power to avoid his lynch. You got pistache last time. That's plenty. Garmr should have died yesterday and you damn well know you killed that wagon, acknowledging even that his claim was scummy.

mykonian · Post Post #638 (isolation #99) » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:53 am

In post 636, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:OK firstly, I have gave reasons for why Dier is scum. Which is why he's my favourite.

I have also expressed concerns over Haschel - he is very quiet and I'm not seeing a lot of scum hunting from him. I do think he is picking easy fights/easy options to get himself into the game but some of this contradicts my reads and so I'm not as confident in pushing it.

Keyser, you're right, there isn't anything overtly scummy from him but there isn't anything town either. Like, everything he says is straight down the middle, 50/50, sit on a big fat fucking fence. 'This could be town and this could be scum so that means my read is null/slight scum lean/slight town lean etc etc. It's very difficult to understand where he is at in the game.

I realise that Lalendra and Haschel were not on the wagon - but they're both scummy and good lynch options. Haschel first because Dier joined the Lalendra wagon when it was in the ascendancy and, you know, he's scum.

See, now we've called people town in your lynchpool, called people scum outside of it. You can be a good boy.

Dier isn't going to happen today. I suggest you move on. I see a shitty lalendra wagon. Time to start a haschel one?

mykonian · Post Post #642 (isolation #100) » Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:22 am

In post 639, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I will continue to push for Dier.

Thanks for the offer though.

Don't think so. You aren't going to votepark on dier and just let this day be. I already needed to drag you out of lazy scumhunting, do I now have to drag you out of lazy voting as well?

mykonian · Post Post #644 (isolation #101) » Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:27 am

And sit there alone, achieving nothing?

There's only so much leeway that 10 min meta read is going to give you.

mykonian · Post Post #658 (isolation #102) » Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:25 am

In post 646, Garmr wrote:
In post 642, mykonian wrote:
Don't think so. You aren't going to votepark on dier and just let this day be. I already needed to drag you out of lazy scumhunting, do I now have to drag you out of lazy voting as well?

and the pot calls the kettle black.

Hardly. BBT has hardly pushed dier as scum, mostly just called him scum a lot without a case out there. And unsurprisingly, there still isn't a wagon since the start of the day. Meanwhile he's just sitting there taking potshots at the rest of the game. Hence, he's just parking his vote. It's super passive, has nothing to do with scumhunting.

My vote is in good company on your wagon, ty.

mykonian · Post Post #659 (isolation #103) » Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:31 am

In post 652, Lalendra wrote:Honestly I'm just getting frustrated at this point, Dier and garmr are so obvscum and no one is doing anything about it, and garmr keeps pushing the same points and beating the same dead horses. we deserve to lose this game if we're going to just let this happen.

I know dear. 3 votes are on a competing wagon. There are 4 votes doing nothing at the moment. They aren't all scum, just people

again

are just dipping their toes in the cold water. But you bet there's some scum hiding in there, it's just too cozy to play from there, no pressure at all.

so if the real pro townies would please stand up, please stand up.

mykonian · Post Post #692 (isolation #104) » Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:13 am

In post 664, Haschel Cedricson wrote:Did a quick skim. A Lalendra vote is exactly the sort of thing I can get behind.
Vote: Lalendra
. Wouldn't mind a Hieirama lynch either.

guys

this isn't happening.

mykonian · Post Post #693 (isolation #105) » Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:16 am

ok. I was going to make a prod dodge post when I saw you actually pushed someone to l-1 and a claim, but I can say this.

Haschel scummily lurked through day 1. Didn't show up day 2. Suddenly gets behind a wagon. I won't lynch anyone but garmr or haschel today. Take your pick.

mykonian · Post Post #757 (isolation #106) » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:25 am

In post 734, Keyser Söze wrote:BlueBloodedToffee is now on my uncomfortable list.

only now?

I am pleased with the compromise haschel lynch. I can join that in due time.

mykonian · Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:53 pm

vote haschel

Not sure why you are giving him a free pass.

mykonian · Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:56 pm

It's a bit annoying that there's a heap of townies who play this game but don't really dare to do anything. Days like this get you nowhere, even if we magically managed to get to a good lynch this time (of which the odds are lower).

Deadline lynches suck.

mykonian · Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:01 am

so herr didn't want to vote a bulletproof, has no issue sitting behind a doc lynch.

this game.

mykonian · Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:38 am

I see an easy solution.

mykonian · Post Post #891 (isolation #111) » Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:18 am

Tomorrow people should revisit hier on top of the other scum.

The above is good for dier, I'm going to be very sad if people try to lynch him tomorrow again. There are way better lynches.

mykonian · Post Post #923 (isolation #112) » Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:17 am

There's a ton of townreads to get out of that lynch. I've skimmed before, doing another again.

Hier's town, herr's likely town, dwlee is town (obv). Lalendra interaction is antagonistic but at least big enough that it could be distancing. Soze is town.

Dier/garmr are the two votes that fire the counterwagon back up, dier first, garmr second. Obv requires second attention. And lets not forget our charming garmr also wanted to prevent this haschel lynch at all cost

I still like feli, but idk at some point that deserves a revision, given haschel and meanmelters iso.

And then there's the matter of the nightkills.

for now.

vote garmr

mykonian · Post Post #926 (isolation #113) » Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:16 am

good. No go be a proper townie and make something happen. I don't know why you are asking us while you can read the thread and have opinions.

I would really appreciate it if today for once we didn't wait for the deadline to be around before we had any sense of commitment to anything.

mykonian · Post Post #933 (isolation #114) » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:20 am

In post 434, Haschel Cedricson wrote:
In post 433, Hieirama wrote:
In post 428, Dwlee99 wrote:What's stopping you from being proactive TODAY hieirama?

Well, the Day was kind of over already.

That quickhammer though

:siren: BADPOST ALERT :siren:

this isn't distancing.

new vote plz dier.

mykonian · Post Post #935 (isolation #115) » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:42 am

look at this, you are thinking!

I don't understand why you think there wasn't a bus though. Haschel was dead weight. If he was a scumbud, at some point you'd cut him.

mykonian · Post Post #937 (isolation #116) » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:23 am

you didn't think he'd get lynched for it?

mykonian · Post Post #939 (isolation #117) » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:48 am

I don't need your own perception of your meta, mine is sufficient

mykonian · Post Post #943 (isolation #118) » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:11 am

shrug, your lynch has to happen at some point if I want to win

mykonian · Post Post #981 (isolation #119) » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:57 am

ok, as it looks now it'll probably be this weekend that I really dive in.

One consideration that I did have during that skim I feel should be posted now.

Suppose you are haschel. Day one, you play your game. You don't get in trouble. N1 you look at your play and it really doesn't look all that good, towards the end of the day there's some suspicion and indeed you have been a terrible lurk. You are a smart kid, do you think you'll make it to lylo? That'll be hard. So comes the second question, how do you set up your buddies to win the game for you?

I'd be very surprised if haschel voted for a lynch on a buddy that might have gone through, otoh, I'd expect him to distance if he saw the opportunity. Day 1 this is obvious different, he may have thought a good lynch could set him up there.

mykonian · Post Post #997 (isolation #120) » Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:22 am

In post 988, Dwlee99 wrote:
In post 981, mykonian wrote:ok, as it looks now it'll probably be this weekend that I really dive in.

One consideration that I did have during that skim I feel should be posted now.

Suppose you are haschel. Day one, you play your game. You don't get in trouble. N1 you look at your play and it really doesn't look all that good, towards the end of the day there's some suspicion and indeed you have been a terrible lurk. You are a smart kid, do you think you'll make it to lylo? That'll be hard. So comes the second question, how do you set up your buddies to win the game for you?

I'd be very surprised if haschel voted for a lynch on a buddy that might have gone through, otoh, I'd expect him to distance if he saw the opportunity. Day 1 this is obvious different, he may have thought a good lynch could set him up there.

In post 982, Dwlee99 wrote:So who would that be, dier?
I call IIoA.

Idk why I said dier, this was directed to mykonian. Phone reading OP.

Yeah, I got that.

I don't agree with it though, it's clearly analysis on Haschel's play. I haven't connected the dots and overlooked the big picture, simply don't feel like putting that amount of work in before the weekend. But you are invited to either disagree with my view on haschels play or apply it to his posts if you don't feel like waiting.

mykonian · Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:35 pm

1. Dierfire
2. Garmr
5. Dwlee99
6. Meanmelter Felissan
7. herrcombs
8. Hieirama
9. mykonian
10. Lalendra
12. Keyser Söze

Ok, time to put in some effort.

First interaction between haschel and Herr can go either way. It's clearly deliberate from Haschel's point of view so I can't really say all that much about it. Think in my first skim I gave herr a pass for this one but I don't think I should.

takes till fucking #246 that we actually get some interactions. Almost as if we could have seen this earlier. Game is decently in flux at that time with the disbandening of the garmr wagon so that's something.

Dwlee is also obv town from this.
Personally I dislike the way he deals with garmrs claim, It's like super neutral analysis, if that makes sense.
I don't really dare to give hier a townread out of this. It's something but probably not enough.
*Lalendra gets town points for 259
*322 are obviously points for dier. I probably should take him off the list for that.

2. Garmr
6. Meanmelter Felissan
7. herrcombs
8. Hieirama
10. Lalendra
12. Keyser Söze

I have the vague suspicion the entire start of the pistache wagon were town, even if 2 of the players on it are still in the list above. Garmr obviously is different, that wasn't a vote in response to pistache's post, but one that had us waiting for a hammer. I guess you could go either way with herr, that was just a response to a bad looking post, he could do that as scum. Soze though, seems to sit in a town place with that wagon. But lets forget about that, has nothing to do with the last flip.

434/447 make hier town. I misremembered with the previous post that haschel got some pressure later but he has to be aware he's not doing all that great. Getting actual pressure on a uncertain looking scumbuddy that hier would be at a time where town is clearly searching is a recipe for disaster, he wouldn't do it.

527 isn't going to be a bus. Nobody was talking about haschel, now soze finally decides to make a vote, he could have let it be. So that's soze 90% sure not haschels buddy.

With 662 I am glad I haven't scratched herr from the list yet. His opinion on haschel is very wishy washy.

664. The vote that gets haschel lynched imo. Think it might have come from a previous "read" on her so that he felt safe in doing that. Issue is, the way lalendra is playing, from scum point of view it's pretty w/e. Just like haschel, if things go as they go then, lalendra won't make it. It annoys me, but that could very well be a bus. Might even explain why he was in such a hurry to get on the wagon.

745. And guess who kickstarts the haschel wagon, in stead of going for say, hier, or garmr or w/e. Herr. There's no way he does that as scum, he could just let it be hope bbt and I don't get our shit together and end up on dier someway. Soze follows and with those two I think this lynch is going to happen.

2. Garmr
6. Meanmelter Felissan
10. Lalendra

I have to admit that it is quite annoying that dier and hier start up a counterwagon on lalendra (while I liked them for town), garmr follows but at least I haven't be able to find a town interaction with haschel yet, they basically didn't post apart from haschel's neutral response to garmr's claim.

I don't think anyone should give garmr townpoints for his heavy push on lalendra. It's very deliberate, that works for either side, he knows what he's doing. Big moves are easier to do as scum.

885. Herr picks the haschel lynch. Now together with the previous, I am happy to call him town. Exception is if lalendra-haschel was actually his choice, in that case we've got shit to figure out.

Dier's hammer isn't the best ever. Can't really be too fussed though.

Now the next issue is the 3 I end up with. There are some imperfect townies that have dropped off, but suppose I got this far (and lets be fair, if soze/dwlee are scum, I don't think I'm going to find out about it).

Mean's decidedly going for garmr. Quite singleminded in his efforts. Little interaction at all with lalendra or the rest of the game for that matter. I think I may have given too much credit to feli's first post. Mean works with either pair. I could easily see garmr-mean as scum scum. There's no threat. If garmr is scum, after the start of day 1 at some point he went "fuck it" and started playing scum balls to the walls, see how far he could get with that. As a bud, that's an easy case to make. Looks good when he flips too, and after that first half day 1, I think that must have been the plan if garmr is scum.

Otoh, suppose garmr is scum, there's no way day 2 happens, or this day, with lalendra as scum. He's the minor scum guy, lalendra was fine up till the flash wagon that got her to claim. Garmr was a key part of that. He could play balls to the walls, but I'd say he wouldn't actively try to get in the way of his scumpartners.

Leaves mean-lalendra. I present to you the only evidence these two players are aware they are in the same game.

In post 756, Meanmelter wrote:
In post 724, Lalendra wrote:To be clear, I am still voting garmr. However if the Dier wagon picks up steam, I will gladly sheep the fk out of it, because I am happy lynching either.

I REALLY do not like that last statement. I understand you find Dier 'Obvscum' but I just dislike how it seems you are merely picking whichever door the most people are going into.

I

think

scum buddies wouldn't talk to another like this.

tl;dr. If I try to narrow the scumpairs down after the haschel lynch, I end up with 2 that are somewhat likely. They are garmr-mean and lalendra-mean

mykonian · Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:37 pm

In post 1017, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 981, mykonian wrote:
I'd be very surprised if haschel voted for a lynch on a buddy that might have gone through
, otoh, I'd expect him to distance if he saw the opportunity. Day 1 this is obvious different, he may have thought a good lynch could set him up there.

Yes, Haschel Cedricson put Lalendra to L-1 on D2:

In post 664, Haschel Cedricson wrote:Did a quick skim. A Lalendra vote is exactly the sort of thing I can get behind.
Vote: Lalendra
. Wouldn't mind a Hieirama lynch either.

[5] Lalendra - Dierfire, Garmr, Keyser Söze, herrcombs, Haschel Cedricson [L-1]

[4] Garmr - Meanmelter, Dwlee99, mykonian, Lalendra [L-2]
[1] Dierfire - BlueBloodedToffee [L-5]
Not Voting - Hieirama

Haschel Cedricson made a "quick skim" and voted Lalendra (Gamr was at L-2). I can't see Haschel Cedricson putting his scum-partner (Lalendra) at L-1 when a Gamr wagon was thriving. After herrcombs had voted Lalendra, Haschel Cedricson likely swooped in to take advantage. IMO, this buys Lalendra serious
town points
.

Moreover, if Lalendra is town and we have 3 mafia, I doubt all three were on Lalendra's wagon:
Dierfire, Garmr, Keyser Söze, herrcombs,
Haschel Cedricson
.

yeah, I know, that was the first thought. But idk man. Maybe I second guessed myself too much there. Would be nice if dwlee could chime in there.

mykonian · Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:40 pm

In post 1012, Dwlee99 wrote:Lale, did you receive a roleblocked notification?

In normal games, non information roles don't get to know this.

Is lalendra's confusion real? I wouldn't know.

mykonian · Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:43 pm

I think today I'd like to go with the theory that garmr and mean are the two remaining scum. It makes sense on a couple of levels.

mykonian · Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:29 pm

Yeah, sorry, I saw that later. That makes me feel somewhat good about assuming lalendra being town for now.

Associative tells work in moderation. Not everybody covers for them, and not everybody is aware of all the interactions they have. Some do and those tend to be the people with few interactions at all. If he's scum, mean is one of them. But at this point in time, it was a decent way to get a new angle on the game. It's valuable to now and then look back at the previous days with a different focus, you see the game in a new light.

mykonian · Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:00 am

In post 1039, Dierfire wrote:If you made a powerfully persuasive case on MM, I didn't read it. I suppose that I might have missed it because I wasn't really paying attention to MM.

They have been in each others hairs for a while. Naturally garmr was forced to vote his attacker.

mykonian · Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:37 am

yeah hi, I recieved a prod.

This is an interesting situation that I'm perfectly happy watching unfold.

mykonian · Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:23 am

soze has some points that I'm happy finally get voiced. Took long enough.

mykonian · Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:41 am

In post 1139, A Simple Plan wrote:Not Voting - Dwlee99, Lalendra

you two are making me sad.

mykonian · Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:54 am

In post 1141, Dwlee99 wrote:
In post 1139, A Simple Plan wrote:

Not Voting -
Dwlee99, Lalendra, Keyser Söze

3*

no sunshine, soze is fine. It's really just you two.

mykonian · Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:59 pm

In post 1185, herrcombs wrote:@ Myko: why have you been so quiet lately? Why did you never answer my question raised in 1050?

busy and bored of the game. So really getting here and posting something is starting to feel like effort.

As for the question, I don't think any interaction between them matters at this point anymore. The situation would make any interaction make sense from all allignments.

mykonian · Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:41 pm

hi aj.

mykonian · Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:50 pm

vote garmr

mykonian · Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:35 am

In post 1256, Keyser Söze wrote:We have 3 wagons to look at now: pistachi0n (D1), Haschel Cedricson (D2) and Meanmelter (D3).

yeah, going to do that someday today.

mykonian · Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:20 am

In post 1284, Dierfire wrote:I wonder why Keyser doesn't find me suspicious.

you are not alone in this.

mykonian · Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:09 am

shurg, it was an ok wagon. Mean could have been scum imo, we misread him.

I do not understand the continious reluctance to lynch garmr.

mykonian · Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:51 am

So you are betting your whole game not on reads you could have formed over the course of days, but on a role "theory" which is much less of a theory and more of a gamble that scum do not have a roleblocker.

Sure, we can lynch you as well, if garmr really is that difficult.

Actually. Why not follow that with a vote. You've been in my blindspot for ages.

vote dier

mykonian · Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:46 am

In post 1293, Dwlee99 wrote:Not to mention you can't roleblock a mason. That vote is so awful, myko.
VOTE: Myko

that one is worse.

give me a reason why dier is town?

mykonian · Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:53 am

In post 1296, Garmr wrote:What's a reason that deir might be scum?

it's small things all the time, but mostly he's one of the guys I can't figure out a clear reason for any read. I can tell soze is town, dwlee, there's a way to tell hier's allignment though I've been unable to do so. Herr's probably town but either way has made clear statements. I know nothing about dier. Haven't all game. He's "meh", from start to finish.

So he's been solidly in my blind spot and lets be fair, scum often sit there.

And that argument, as said there, it's just silly. You don't throw away 50 pages of reads to argue about what the setup might be. That's beyond outguessing the mod and into discussion theory without having to argue people. So the post is scummy, I don't know about dier otherwise, it's as good a vote as any.

mykonian · Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:49 am

In post 1299, Dwlee99 wrote:So PoE, myko?

No, that'd include hier. I don't actually know hiers allignment, I just see avenues of it being figured out. Hier has done weird things, you can look at them. I cannot think of a single thing dier did.

how about you?

I mean, the way you can also look at it is that I lost both of my scumpairs as of now. I came around to being ok with lynching the feli-mean slot bc I thought it was the pair that was left. I need two scum. It wasn't feli garmr, it wasn't lalendra garmr. Somewhere before I made a mistake. Herr could be fooling me (hardbussed haschel then, an inspired move), I don't think you are, I don't think soze is, hier... well I've said before what irks me there to call it scum, it's too blatant. Dier was a good option anyway, just read my interaction post. I'm going back and forth on Dier there, so he's a candidate for being a haschel buddy anyway of the lot that's left.

Now that the doc is gone I might actually get a list out as well. I don't think garmr should end this game alive. I don't think me, dwlee and soze should be lynched this game. We have 7 left alive, if we just manage to get one scum, one of those 3 should be able to make it into lylo.

mykonian · Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:34 pm

In post 1302, Dwlee99 wrote:I don't think that the setup speculation was at all scummy.

That's your opinion. Also you seem to think I'm scum so I don't exactly know why you are arguing about how I think about the game?

mykonian · Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:58 pm

Yours is worse. You damn well know I'm town so why vote to make a point? I think I'm voting scum. If you disagree, find a better one. It isn't garmr obviously, because it's now the 4th day and he's still alive, so somehow the whole town has seen something different than I have from him. Who does that leave you with. Just AJ?

mykonian · Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:41 am

In post 1312, Dierfire wrote:
@Mykonian

If you really can't recall anything that I've done, I suggest that you read my ISO.

that isn't the issue. Nothing has been memorable. You don't stand out.

mykonian · Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:50 pm

In post 1324, Dierfire wrote:I agree that the first lynch was unlikely to have only Town players on it. If I'm right about AJ, and if you're Town, that leaves either Herrcombs or Mykonian. Herrcombs helped lynch Haschel when he could have let it go, so I'd bet on Mykonian as Mafia. I'll have to ponder further whether you're Town, though.

aww, look at that.

You missed the boat son. This post is too late, would be bad if it had been before dwlee's unvote, now is totally out of wack. There's town opportunism, but you need to get the timing right to make it work. You missed it by a lot.

mykonian · Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:23 pm

In post 1334, Garmr wrote:I will remember you ignoring me and I will make sure it will bite you in the ass maybe not in this game maybe not in the next but someday.

Good luck with that one

mykonian · Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:09 am

well, what's the excuse for the rest of you? I'm content lynching dier or garmr today.

mykonian · Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:21 am

yup, that's about correct. I have had trouble reading hier in general, she was rather out there in terms of playstyle.

I would be opposed, I think the other two are better options.

mykonian · Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:34 am

I'm bored. You seem bored. Soze doesn't do jack.

Lets lynch garmr

vote garmr

mykonian · Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:59 am

In post 1371, Dierfire wrote:Garmr and DWL are Town.
Keyser is probably Town.
One of Mykonian and Herrcombs has to be Town by the numbers.
AJ is Mafia.

I can't think of anything else that would help my read on Mykonian and Herrcombs as much as lynching AJ.

Guys. Why are we letting this live?

I'd be very surprised if herr was scum. It could be, but he would have shown some remarkable initiative. I think people should have a townread on me. Somehow, just poe, dier manages to come out with either of us and that somehow justifies the AJ lynch? It might make sense ot him, it doesn't to me.

Garmr or dier today, guys. Not AJ.

mykonian · Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:44 pm

Would you be so kind to selfvote. In that case, that post was also for you.

mykonian · Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:27 pm

mykonian · Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:29 pm

In post 1391, herrcombs wrote:
In post 1298, mykonian wrote:there's a way to tell hier's allignment though I've been unable to do so.

In post 1301, mykonian wrote:I don't actually know hiers allignment, I just see avenues of it being figured out.

What exactly do you mean by these, myko?

That hier has been weird. Her passivity is decently out of normal bounds. Her personality doesn't really matter, but you could have a look at how easy she takes initiative in other games of hers. But also how far she's aware of certain "known" scum and town tells. It was a bit strange to witness her commit to garmr's defense so blatantly.

So I don't believe she's unreadable, there's material there. I just haven't been able to figure it out. This in comparison to dier (and if not for the haschel wagon, soze) where I feel the trouble I have reading them is on them. Their playstyles are geared towards reducing the amount of weird stuff, so you have them in your game but they don't make any waves. It's not lurking, it's not active lurking, but it's not achieving anything either.

mykonian · Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:35 am

ok

So where does that vote go if you would want to lynch someone?

mykonian · Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:20 am

that's not what I asked and you know that very well.

kindly play the game.

mykonian · Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:02 pm

In post 1406, herrcombs wrote:I'm just going to out and tell you -- Myko, I think your attitudes towards AJ are suspiciously passive.

I am aware of this.

I think there's been evidence that you and Hiei have been unwilling to push substantially on each other at all

This, however, is not true. Day one, first case on Hier, which got the wagon going. It was mine. I don't think I followed it up with a vote, but not sure about that. Case was clearly mine. I've expressed my complaints with her playstyle, however I have backed off. It doesn't make sense from a scum perspective for me either. Clearly, I have not ignored hier. I'm just vocally unwilling to lynch her. Partially because it doesn't make sense to me, partially because I see other perfectly good candidates. Her interaction with Haschel was fine as well. Not exceptional, not worrying either.

Somehow this day has all been about AJ and I feel it's a mislynch in the making. It's still going to happen. So I guess in a day or two we are going to figure out who was right.

mykonian · Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:31 am

In post 1412, Dwlee99 wrote:If scum go for the weakest town it is easier to see them just trying to get an easy mislynch rather than scumhunting.

I don't think this line works anymore.

Scum have an issue. You are town. Soze is town. I'm town. Herr is town. There are good arguments for all of those. And there's a mason still around. Scum run out of weak town before they can win the game. They actually have to create new possible lynches.

See it however you want it, around your vote for me there was some active opportunism, which falls in line right with that. Soze and you are clearly out of the firing line, but today suddenly Dier decided to put me on his list again. People are suspiciously quiet about Herr who's very likely to be town as well. These things should be talked about, but they aren't.

This game should be close to over but we as town (looking at you and soze) are fooling around and not sealing the deal. I'd be pretty sad if we let this one go.

mykonian · Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:48 am

Dier, garmr. Outside chance it's AJ. I might be wrong about one of my townreads, but as of now I doubt it. That's something to worry about with lylo.

Like garmr has been gone over. His play makes perfect sense from a scum point of view. I don't understand why he doesn't get lynched, but such is life. Dier I think showed his hand with his vote on me after you went with it. I think that was clear opportunism. Before that, I've asked you before, but can you actually think of impactful things he had done? I couldn't. For me how a scumplayer should play.

Like, this we've gone over before as well, but that's the key difference between hier and dier, isn't it? Hier's play is very noticably passive, diers is passive as well but doesn't search the spotlight.

mykonian · Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:10 am

In post 1324, Dierfire wrote:I agree that the first lynch was unlikely to have only Town players on it. If I'm right about AJ, and if you're Town, that leaves either Herrcombs or Mykonian. Herrcombs helped lynch Haschel when he could have let it go, so I'd bet on Mykonian as Mafia. I'll have to ponder further whether you're Town, though.

Whatever. This post. You didn't commit, fine by me. Point stands.

mykonian · Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:39 am

takes long dwlee. zzzz.

mykonian · Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:05 pm

vote aj

long enough. Night, people.

mykonian · Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:18 pm

I wouldn't have, but claiming intent then doing nothing about it just leaves the game hanging.

mykonian · Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:34 pm

we can have that discussion now, ASP isn't exactly known to be all that active, I believe.

This whole day has moved towards one lynch, so I'm wondering what you wanted to talk about.

mykonian · Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:57 pm

I don't see you doing it now. You wanted to discuss something, which is why you were waiting. What discussion?

There was nothing left to talk about. AJ was getting hammered, he had said his final words.

mykonian · Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:44 pm

we might have miscounted. Might as well.

mykonian · Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:28 pm

oh, in that case, you guys can figure it out someday later.

vote dier

and I did read it but it didn't actually make it to understanding the post, sorry herr.

mykonian · Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:04 am

Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1431, mykonian wrote:
vote aj

long enough. Night, people.

If you were happy to hammer him without a roleclaim, why didn't you vote him earlier mate?

If you make posts stating what should happen the next day after someone says he's going to hammer you, you've got your chance. AJ hasn't claimed, wouldn't claim.

I didn't vote him because I think it's going to end up as scum. I was voting to see the flip.

mykonian · Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:24 am

Well yes, I don't think we had a solid counterwagon this day. We managed to be inside 3 days of a deadline with imo really only one lynch that could have happened all day, because it was all people talked about. If after an intent to hammer you still decide "well, we have 3 more days to talk about this lynch", idk. I'm ready for tomorrow at that point.

Not that it really matters, I pm'ed asp before, but given his recent posts in other games this may take a while.

mykonian · Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:59 am

Must be, there are 3 more votes on this page, I never really was on that wagon. Shouldn't we have overshot by one if your intent post was at l-2?

mykonian · Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:13 am

Yup, wp. That game couldn't be won.

mykonian · Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:22 am

In post 1505, Dwlee99 wrote:
In post 1504, mykonian wrote:Yup, wp. That game couldn't be won.

Why not?

Because for the longest time with the available players we'd never arrive at you and soze. Like, after day one probably.

idk, to figure that out I suspect I'd have to play with many a player in this game for a time or two. It worked ish with feli who I've seen in sitechat but after that in the end I've got to admit I was more guessing than actually getting results. Haschel in that case is just luck of the draw, same ways we got to him we mislynched others. Suppose you get that step and actually get it right, you could figure out a way to play it to actually get it through a census. But like this, I don't think there's a way to arrive there.

I mean, the parts about you two that bugged me make sense now as scum, but then again I'd have said the same if mean turned out to be scum. For next time I'll know a little more but in this case, idk, I don't see how this loss could have been avoided. WP.