Mini Normal 1719 - Flavorless Fun! [Game Over!]

[mykonian]

I guess soze's vote is fun too.

[Dierfire]

Garmr's vote on you?

we could be out of rvs right now.

You know, why not.

Garmr already committed a scumtell trying to call someone town. There's no need for the word "honestly" there, it only makes sense from a point where scum is trying to think like town. The word "honestly" implies that he comes from a setting where he was prepared to lie this game, then found a situation where it wasn't necessary. Add to this that he's stepping in to protect someone from an accusation and that little sentence becomes quite damning. Buddying and at the same time showing off his mindset is scummy.

So dwlee, are we out of rvs? :)

honestly I use that word a lot it features in all my recent games. Also what's this bs about calling someone town. I said I don't see anything scummy yet. You seem like your reaching so have my vote.

VOTE: mycorana

I thought that it was fine--not a particularly strong case but not a particularly weak one for that point in the game.

[Dierfire]

Hieirama's reaction to your accusation--which one?

I could see this one coming from Mafia:

Should I go back to lurking or?

This one seems to combine confidence and insecurity:

Heh.

I made that readlist, you're right, to contribute a little bit more than a one-liner. I'm not sure how that's scum-oriented?
I'm not being helpful if all my opinions are all jumbled in my head. So why not share it, even if it's minor?
This is the fastest pace game I've played in. I do hate missing the boat.

I'd read the confidence as fake. I could see that from Mafia.

[Dierfire]

Keyser's vote for Hieirama?

I thought that it was pretty good. He certainly presents some corroborating evidence for the case that you presented, anyway.

so soze. You are still sitting on a dwlee vote. This seems outdated. Not saying you should vote garmr.

But at least vote hier then who more or less claimed scum with her reply.

Scum-lean read on Hieirama.

By post 76, Hieirama posted an extensive positive/null/negative "vibes" list based on everyone's posts (reads based on posts <#67).

Why positive/negative "vibes" and a

running narrative

on events, why not call them town/scum reads? He only committed giving a "Slight Town-Lean" to herrcombs. Noted.

I'm still trying to comprehend what's going on… These quick reads and half-joking remarks are throwing me off.

I'll try anyway. No use for me if I just sit to the side.

"I'll try anyway. No use for me if I just sit to the side."

- I am uncomfortable with this soliloquy, feels like this reads/vibes list has been tough work for Hieirama to express (and has maybe been posted a little too early).

VOTE: Hieirama

[mykonian]

about hier: I was thinking the second, yes, but either works

[Dwlee99]

Look at the votes on my wagon:

UNVOTE: Dierfire
VOTE: Keyser

OMGUS much...? Does Dwlee99 actually scum-read me?

DWL is Town and easy to lynch. Players voting DWL are therefore more likely to be Mafia.

UNVOTE: BBT
VOTE: Keyser

I feel this is a weak reason. I did not like how that sentence was constructed. "easy to lynch" - what part of Dwlee99's play is

easy to lynch

? His vote on me had a logical fallacy feeling to it.

"Player A is easy to lynch, therefore Player B who voted for Player A is more likely scum"

Still waiting for Dierfire's comments.

For the last stinkin' time, it wasn't OMGUS. I did not vote you for voting me. I voted you for being inconsistent. You took out my entire argument as to why you are scum. This is manipulation. And yet no one calls you out on it for some odd reason. Here's my whole post. Do you feel the need to remove my entire argument out just to get your point across?

My town read on implosion was serious, my one on BBT was more joke-y but based on his posts afterwards I'm town reading him. I don't understand how that makes me scum?

You say that you don't like early town or scum reads but you don't flag implosion as suspicious although he did it even earlier than me.

I also wanted to flag Hieirama's reaction.

I feel like implosion was joking about a 'Dierfire + Hieirama scumteam'

- but Hieirama's jumps in acting very serious/defensive:

Looks like a Dierfire + Hieirama scumteam. Now if only we can figure out the third...

You can build a scumread based on one post?

Dwlee99

gives out two (serious?)

easy/early town-reads

(I do not like people giving out easy/early town/scum reads)

:

You asked about my town read on you and implosion

. The first part was more about implosion and the second part is about you. Even though it was "Kind of a joke" I'm still town reading you. (especially for your last few posts)

UNVOTE: BlueBloodedToffee
VOTE: Dwlee99

Yea, no.
UNVOTE: Dierfire
VOTE: Keyser

Okay, we're out of RVS. Fine.
But let's look at Garmr's ISO -
21 - RVS
24 - "Honestly don't see anything scummy so far"

Garmr already committed a scumtell trying to call someone town.

So saying he doesn't see anything scummy is a scum tell? Okay, totally.

Why did you clip out the rest of what he said, about why it's a scumtell to him?

(Even though frankly, I don't agree with mykonian's premise... I don't think the phrase "to be honest" or its derivatives is alignment indicative, I've seen townies use the phrase and I tend to use it too out of habit.)

I clipped it out because the rest was gibberish about him saying the word "honestly". He did say some stuff about it being him buddying and "Add to this that he's stepping in to protect someone from an accusation and that little sentence becomes quite damning." but it's a weak case that relies on saying the word "honestly" being a scum tell, which, like you said, isn't one.

[mykonian]

yes, that's what he says as well, it's omgus. :/

[Dwlee99]

He clearly manipulated my post. .-.

[implosion]

Pistachion has repeated a lot of my own points in her post.

Not sure if that's intentional?

Said the person who posted a carbon copy of 59~
Anyway, re: your question about Hiei, I had called them scum in an overblown way on the first page and they had reacted to that, so I wanted to mention what I thought of the reaction. I still don't have any strong opinion on Hiei.

I don't have any explicit feelings about the myko wagon because I don't actually remember any reasons being given for it that stuck in my head, which sort of implicitly means it's pretty bad.

With regards to Garmr, I agree that 24 is scummy at this point. I agree 72 feels awkwardly defensive, as if he's semi-automatically voting without thinking. But I have trouble seeing scum motivation behind that quote I gave earlier:

Also you should quit before you burn youself if there's a wagon between you and me your the one getting lynched.

What is the scum motivation for this? It pretty much just invites/instigates myko to tunnel him forever. It seems way too cocky to reasonably post as scum when myko is the most active poster in the game. I can't imagine him posting this as scum who thinks that it'll get myko off his back. I can't imagine him posting it as scum who is so overconfident that they want to boast. If I see a good justification for scum posting this then I might join the Garmr wagon.

[Dwlee99]

Why does no one else think Keyser is scum? He manipulated my post and completely ignored all of my reasoning and just said "OMGUS".

[mykonian]

What is the scum motivation for this? It pretty much just invites/instigates myko to tunnel him forever. It seems way too cocky to reasonably post as scum when myko is the most active poster in the game. I can't imagine him posting this as scum who thinks that it'll get myko off his back. I can't imagine him posting it as scum who is so overconfident that they want to boast. If I see a good justification for scum posting this then I might join the Garmr wagon.

Momentum was decently against me at that point (decently quick wagon, 4 votes), and such wagons have gotten steam before, could have happened here. Dwlee pushes against it and by 120/121 from bbt, momentum is lost. I am pretty sure that sentence is garmr thinking he's in the winning position as long as I push against him, since people voted me for it. A high postcount isn't always beneficial for one's survival. So don't think garmr thinks he can get me off him, I think he believes he can get me lynched.

[Keyser Söze]

Why does no one else think Keyser is scum? He manipulated my post and completely ignored all of my reasoning and just said "OMGUS".

Read my post 58.

Tone of implosion's scum reads: I read as NOT serious.
Tone of your town reads: I read as serious, you also stated you were serious.

To repeat, I did not ignore implosion's reads (I even flagged them in the very same post) neither did I ignore your reasoning. Different tone = different read.

[mykonian]

still boring, guys

[Dwlee99]

Still doesn't explain the manipulation of my post, keyser.

[Dierfire]

@DWL

Do you think that Keyser would not dismiss your case if he were Town?

Oh, that reminds me...
UNVOTE: Keyser
VOTE: Hieirama

EDIT: Do you think that he would not chop your quote if he were Town?

[mykonian]

Still doesn't explain the manipulation of my post, keyser.

dude, I'm not voting you either. Move on.

[Felissan]

I'm really sorry for my inactivity, I was pretty busy today. I did do my best to at least read the game, expect more tomorrow.

[mykonian]

Julien, you disappoint me

[Hieirama]

Why am I not surprised by my wagon

Hm, anyway,

I'm not sure how that's scum-oriented?

Some of them have more trouble to get into a game. For town it's pretty natural to just see the last post and talk about what you think of it. Scum have more considerations. Your post was decidedly not natural, it stands out.

Scum can casually give opinions on recent events too, though, its not just a Town thing.
Yes I know it did. Sorry for not being casual?

so soze. You are still sitting on a dwlee vote. This seems outdated. Not saying you should vote garmr.

But at least vote hier then who more or less claimed scum with her reply.

Scum-lean read on Hieirama.

By post 76, Hieirama posted an extensive positive/null/negative "vibes" list based on everyone's posts (reads based on posts <#67).

Why positive/negative "vibes" and a

running narrative

on events, why not call them town/scum reads? He only committed giving a "Slight Town-Lean" to herrcombs. Noted.

I'm still trying to comprehend what's going on… These quick reads and half-joking remarks are throwing me off.

I'll try anyway. No use for me if I just sit to the side.

"I'll try anyway. No use for me if I just sit to the side."

- I am uncomfortable with this soliloquy, feels like this reads/vibes list has been tough work for Hieirama to express (and has maybe been posted a little too early).

VOTE: Hieirama

I dare say I tried to keep it as short as possible.

I'm a bit specific in intensity when I list my suspicions.
It simply goes:
Town-Read, Town-Lean, Positive Vibes, Null, Negative Vibes, Scum-Lean, Scum-Read.

So herrcombs has a stronger Town read then anyone with "Positive vibes".

Kind of. I'll restate it: "I'll attempt to form an analysis even though I don't fully get what's going on, because it's much better than lurking around."
I did have trouble at first because I wasn't exactly sure what everyone was pointing towards.
ISOing everyone and making that post did help me personally understand everything more, so no regrets.

Heir wagon?

complicated name - starts with H - is rather scummy.

I actually don't know where "Hier" came from. I expected to be called "Hiei" for short, but for some reason you disregarded the i, lol.

I find the wagon on Garmr to be weakly reasoned. Pistachion's reasons were weakest.
I thought that Mykonian's case on Hieirama was better than his case on Garmr was.

@Hieirama

Why did you post a read on me that included only my RVS vote and the wagon on me? What about the serious things that I posted?

EDIT Working on it!

Well, I only read up to post 66 there…
About post 66 now, it was kind of fast and too certain, you put no thought into counterarguments in there. That's not a great thing.

And apologies for not being the fastest at posting. I'm busy with school during the week.

Hieirama's reaction to your accusation--which one?

I could see this one coming from Mafia:

Should I go back to lurking or?

This one seems to combine confidence and insecurity:

Heh.

I made that readlist, you're right, to contribute a little bit more than a one-liner. I'm not sure how that's scum-oriented?
I'm not being helpful if all my opinions are all jumbled in my head. So why not share it, even if it's minor?
This is the fastest pace game I've played in. I do hate missing the boat.

I'd read the confidence as fake. I could see that from Mafia.

That was me trying to be sarcastic.

I can get where you're coming from here. There was a bit of confidence in there.
Mm, why would I want to take confidence, though?

[herrcombs]

UNVOTE: myko

I like how mykonian hasn't stepped down from people challenging him, and it seems like he's working to drive the discussion forward with useful content in some areas. I've got a resounding nullread on him at this point, though. His postcount is ballooning a bit and is making the thread a little hard to follow. I also don't like the way in which he avoids answering some questions directly. (e.g. see his back-and-forth with Soze starting with Soze's 99, and the way myko structured his 107 and 110 without simply answering the question. All this does it invite a cyclical discussion that just takes up space instead of generating anything useful.)

I can totally identify with Hieirama's feeling that as someone fresh out of the newbie queue, the pace of this game is noticeably faster. I can see how Hie is having a hard time jumping into discussions. However, I don't like the "Should I go back to lurking or?" bit in hie's 89. This on top of the questions imbedded in hie's readlist in 76, I think it could be a pretty easy way to feign scumhunting without actually trying to figure out the game. I'm fine with progressing that wagon. And a question to Hieirama: what would you consider to be the most interesting development so far in the game? Who is your top scum at this point?

VOTE: Hieirama

Feeling an initial townlean on BBT. He's pushing on multiple people, I like the questions he's asking in 121, for example. Implosion's first point in his 158 is bothering me a bit though. BBT, was your repeating of implosion's points in his 59 in your 120 intentional?

I don't mind pistachi0n's vote on Garmr, but I don't like how pista isn't really commenting on anything else in the game. Pistachi0n, what is your opinion of mykonian? Do you think there's any merit to the wagon on Garmr, which has already attracted several votes?

@ Soze's 142: is it not anti-town to point out things that could be soft-claims? What good can possibly come from discussing such things?

I think that the logic is very natural. I will break it down. Town players vote for those they believe to be Mafia. Mafia players vote for those they know to be Town (except when voting players they know to be Mafia, which is presumably less frequent). So, if I believe a player to be Town (such as DWL), others voting for that player are more likely to be Mafia than are others voting for some other player.

This is interesting logic, but something feels off to me about it, too. You say "players voting DWL are more likely to be Mafia." More likely than what? Than random? Using this logic with no supporting scumreads gives a probability marginally better than random to find scum. It's kinda like a really weak process of elimination, and it feels strange seeing it as the sole justification for a vote so early into the game.

@Herrcombs
Why did it take you so long to write this one up?

It takes me forever to compose my posts (and I'm still trying to get the hang of following so many different little lines of discussion). I've been writing this one off-and-on for the past hour and a half at least (going on two hours now)

I do like how active Dierfire is being after getting caught up, his interest in talking with mykonian about recent events, and his outreach to numerous other players in the game. Initial townlean for Dierfire.

[Dwlee99]

UNVOTE: Keyser
Not sure where to put my vote on atm. I think Hiei's posts aren't the best but I'm not getting scum vibes from it. They seem like they're trying to fgure out the game.

[Garmr]

@keysor yes I will confirm I am a power role I don't want to say what through.

[mykonian]

who wants to play "find the scumtell"?

[Garmr]

Tip look through mykonians iso.

[pistachi0n]

Pistachion has repeated a lot of my own points in her post.

Not sure if that's intentional?

No, it wasn't.