Mini Normal 1719 - Flavorless Fun! [Game Over!]

[Lalendra]

I voted Lalendra to pressure them for their reads list. Unvoted when I liked their list but revoted upon learning they tried to pass it off as a policy lynch. I'm not seeing how that makes us an aligned pair.

I think I was pretty clear from the get-go that I considered it a PL but that I wasn't a fan of PL on principle. Not sure where you're getting the idea that I just randomly started attributing it to that.

[A Simple Plan]

Vote Count 1.4

[3]

Hieirama - Keyser Söze, Dierfire, Felissan [L-4]

[3]

Lalendra - Garmr, Dwlee99, Haschel Cedricson [L-4]

[2]

Garmr - mykonian, pistachi0n [L-5]

[2]

Dierfire - BlueBloodedToffee, implosion [L-5]

[1]

pistachi0n - herrcombs [L-6]

Not Voting -

Hieirama, Lalendra

Deadline - (expired on 2015-10-06 12:00:00)

Apologies for the delay in VC. I ended up getting in later than I expected.

[Lalendra]

PEdit:

I would still prefer to lynch Garmr but I would not be opposed to Dier as a compromise lynch, because yes, I am undecided and would be interested to see how he reacts.

Did I just read that right? I don't see how you would agree with a lynch on someone you don't have an opinion on...

I want to put pressure on him to get information. Sorry I wasn't clear.

Then don't vote for him, pressure him.

This has already been mentioned but I still don't get this; how is a vote not pressuring? Maybe I should have said "I would be interested to see how Dier reacts to a wagon forming on him" instead?

Vote: Lalendra

[/quote]

The second sentence wasn't a joke--that part is true! Your vote typically doesn't stick, though.

Oh my god, this exchange bothers me something fierce. This isn't just pressuring anymore.
VOTE: Dierfire

[Keyser Söze]

Umm, I don't know how you're getting a scum read from anything in this post? Why is positive/negative vibes scummy? Why is having only one lean-town read on page 4 scummy?

Why does his reads-list being 'tough' make him scum? Why isn't it newb-town who is struggling to get into the game?

My scum-lean was based on:
I feel scum are more inclined to force an early reads/"vibes" list - while town are more likely to be finding out their reads at that early stage - under no pressure to complete a descriptive narrative of each player. I think she has since ditched her summary vibe-analysis. "Having only one lean-town read on page 4" is not scum-indicative. But I think feeling the need to post a full reads/narrative/vibes list with your 4th post is something to flag.

Looking at her ISO since that vibes-list I cannot see Hieirama pro-actively scum-hunting (a passenger so far).

"This… is my 4th Fourm Mafia game…"

- I will need to look how she scum-hunted/pressed her scum-reads in games 1 to 3.

Cause now I feel like Garmr's posts are townie

and so I'm less sure of Garmr being scum. Gotta think.

Could you quote these "posts" - I would like to see your thought-process.

[Keyser Söze]

I have a town read on BBT (

gave a lot of effort catching up on the game, giving new points on old posts

)

"Effort" can come from both town and scum - what actual "points" made you town-read BlueBloodedToffee?

[Garmr]

I think a post from feli would be good right now as I'm curious on what

his thoughts are so far. Her 306 seemed like she had a little town read on him and brought out postive points on him. What In that exchange changed your opinion on him.

[Garmr]

Man phone cut some of the post above the her bit refers to lala

[Dwlee99]

@ DWL's 282: Why did you unvote Garmr there? Did you ever consider the Garmr wagon to be in part due to PL, because Garmr was acting against the interests of town? What did you mean by your phrase, "There would be no reason for a policy lynch on Garmr with how they've been playing"?

I voted him because he was acting scummy. Their posts were over defensive over the weak case myko brought and then didn't like me attacking the wagon which seemed odd. The claim with the "oh lynch me I don't give a crap" I didn't like. I never considered it a policy lynch. The unvote in that post was because of me realizing (apparently to me misreading like a derp) that Lalendra was trying to pull a policy lynch on Garmr. I considered it odd and thought it was a weird thing for them to think, especially with the way they were talking about their dislike of policy lynches. I then was wondering Scum!Lalendra would try to policy lynch Scum!Garmr because that's an odd way to bus. So I unvoted.

Cause now I feel like Garmr's posts are townie

and so I'm less sure of Garmr being scum. Gotta think.

Could you quote these "posts" - I would like to see your thought-process.

These

Welp My scum list goes a little like this at the moment (Will do them one at a time starting with the biggest scum first)

Lala -

Garmr – “Honestly” was interesting, but I don’t think it was as much of a scumtell as everyone seemed to think it was. 96 also feels to me like he is being overly-defensive town, I really don’t think that it is a scummy post. But then along comes 171. What is the purpose of this post? Why say you’re a power role if you’re not willing to say what? Why claim when no one asked you to? Why so cryptic? And then you just give up on the game. Anti-town at best. Don’t play if you’re just going to totally screw your team by playing poorly and then giving up. I dislike PL but this is the wagon that I am most inclined to pursue at this point, because as Hieirama pointed out, being blatantly anti-town is almost as bad as being scum.
VOTE: Garmr

This here is a extremely poor reason to vote me and a total misrep. It's pretty obvious I was going for a gambit with out saying my power role to get scum to shoot me also I never gave up on the game I just needed a little break to clear my head about things and read other peoples reactions. The way your potraying me here seems like a scummy excuse to vote someone and say they are town at the same time. Then you try and play it off as a policy lynch which you even said yourself you don't like doing.

I dislike policy lynches, because even if someone's being anti-town, they're still a town player who is alive. I'd rather garmr replaced out and we got someone else who was worth something, but it doesn't look like that's gonna happen.

I'm on mobile at the moment but I'll make a more extensive post when my computer decides to turn on.

P-edit: was it really necessary to quote a wall for a one-line comment?

But that doesn't even add to the fact that you haven't even tried to look for scum this game. Sure claiming something like bp maybe a little antitown but I was originally going for a gambit which i stressed out and befuddled and I'm actually trying now and shown intention.

You haven't even bothered to scum hunt this game and are just giving out town reads to most players or asking questions. You haven't made a firm stance on anyone yet. You have plenty of time to get a scum read which you haven't so. Your play also seems like your trying to duck under the radar while 259 seems forced and contradicts what you said in

There's a difference between not scum hunting, and just not posting walls and pointless read-lists. If you have questions I'll answer them, but I typically wait until I feel like I have a solid case on someone before I say something, rather than making lists of leans and nulls.

VOTE: Lala

I liked this post because of the analysis of Lalendra's post and only attacked it at first cause of my misreading of Lalendra's post.

Their main scum read seems to be you. I think that they have a scum lean on Haschel as well (confirm, lalendra?) or null I think? They mentioned them couldn't tell if it was a scum or null read.
Your second scum read is better. Fellisan's post is odd, at least the first part. It makes sense to be worried that you might actually be a power role. And I disagree about you claiming early being less likely as scum. The fact that you thought of that two-shot hider claim shows the mindset you're in. This is sort of reaching but as town why would you even think of a fake claim like that.

FoS Lalendra for suddenly giving up reads on pressure regarding them. Based on your post it wasn't a PL.

It was obvious you didn't read that correctly. They made it clear I was a policy and the fact you have to ask the person If the actually have a scum read on a person is pretty bad as they can actually deny it latter on. Also I am scum minded I put my self in scum shoes when I scum hunt.

There are three diffrent type of minded people town-fferylt/thor neutral-pirate mollie/not science and scum me and ferrylt/pirate mollies mentor (this theroy comes from there mentor who name I forgot) I have mentioned this theroy of mindsets in past games as well.

That's how I came up with my lala scum read I put myself in their shoes. I'm always thinking of how to play as scum as I enjoy scum more than town because it's easier for me. I can create scenarios in my head in a instant. It ends up catching scum people wouldn't normally catch but on the flip side I tend to miss some things other people see.

I liked reasoning in this post because it was aggressive (town trait) as well as them saying " the fact you have to ask the person If the actually have a scum read on a person is pretty bad as they can actually deny it latter on." was good logic.

[Hieirama]

Looking at her ISO since that vibes-list I cannot see Hieirama pro-actively scum-hunting (a passenger so far).

"This… is my 4th Fourm Mafia game…"

- I will need to look how she scum-hunted/pressed her scum-reads in games 1 to 3.

My main account's name is "Carcalilly", if you'd like to search that up.

Our deadline is still a week out.
Where's your vote now, and to where were you thinking of moving it?

Good.
I usually don't cast votes until I have evidence I'm content with.
There's a lot I want to say and get together, perhaps I'll get that done tomorrow on the way to school.
Really sorry for prolonging things, I suddenly become really occupied during the week.

Got to go, goodnight! vwv

[Garmr]

OK, but you're using defensiveness as a reason for reading Hieirama as scum. How does that work?

Why would I move off of Garmr as scum?

Don't really like the "why would I move off garmr as scum thing" if he didn't appear to have changed his tone about me around the same time it would of been a lot worse. Just seems like he knows I'm town.

[pistachi0n]

I want to see some reads from you or something that looks like you're trying to figure out the game.

Dierfire--Town, seems to be trying to figure people out, questioning people, moving the game along.

Garmr--I'm not as certain of my scumread as I was earlier, when he claimed it seemed like he was making an appeal to emotion but then he came back strong, I thought 242 and after were good.

Haschel--Null, not a lot of stuff, I don't really understand why he voted Lelandra but there's nothing overtly scummy

Implosion--Weak scum, I still think the defense of Garmr was to try to get town points, whether or not Garmr is scum.

Dwlee--Current scumread, early on was asking filler questions, read like he was posting just to post. He has a lot of content but a lot of it is filler.

VOTE: Dwlee

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Above reads-list and vote is pretty bad.

Pistachion, why did you include those people only in your reads?

[mykonian]

that wasn't worth waiting for.

[implosion]

I like Dier's interaction with BBT on the previous page.

I might be fairly low-activity this week, we'll see. The beginning of the week is the hump this semester and this week I have a visit to the East coast from Thursday to Saturday which I might as well be V/LA for because I'm almost certainly going to be too tired to want to do anything in this game.

[implosion]

Unvote

VOTE: pistachi0n

[implosion]

Also not a massive fan of the Lalendra wagon but I can't remember why at the moment - someone should hold me to justifying that, though. Re evaluating her/making sure that I actually did have good reason to think she was town (iirc it was something in her catchup post) is moderately high on my priority list.

[mykonian]

yup, I could follow that vote.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm happy doing that.

VOTE: Pistachion

[Keyser Söze]

I read through pistachi0n's ISO.

pistachi0n (13 posts) Scum-lean read

RVS votes on Dierfire and herrcombs: post 4, post 14

I have mixed feelings with post 123. pistachi0n votes Gamr. I disagree with his

"chiming in RVS to say you don't see anything scummy when nobody prompted you is scummy"

- I do not believe it is out-right scum-indicative.

"Vote in 72 was OMGUS-y"

- I agree. It feels like pistachi0n is attacking Gamr's playstyle more than anything:

"He hasn't posted a scumread based on anything other than OMGUS."

(defensive/narrow-focus play / OMGUS can come from town and scum).

I agree with pistachi0n view that the use of "honestly" is not scum-indicative (post 175).

"Null/weak town"

: pistachi0n's now no longer scum-reads Gamr:

"But I like his responses and how he's challenging the accusations against him"

- I would like to see the responses pistachi0n liked. (I.e Why would only town 'challenge the accusations').

pistachi0n's now scum-reads Gamr:

With the random bp claim I'm now more confident in my vote on Garmr.

"But I like his responses and how he's challenging the accusations against him" - in pistachi0n's previous statement now void?

Defending the Gamr wagon:

@herrcombs--There are 4 votes. There need to be some votes to apply pressure, even early in the game. But nobody's rushing to instalynch. So what are you worried about?

This exchange of posts feels unnatural between pistachi0n and Hieirama :

It takes guts to stand up for players being wagoned.

No...it really doesn't.

I doubt a coward would do it.

Okay, fine, it either takes guts or it's scum who wants to gain town points.

Another change on his Gamr read:

Garmr--I'm not as certain of my scumread as I was earlier, when he claimed it seemed like he was making an appeal to emotion but then he came back strong, I thought 242 and after were good.

It feels like pistachi0n is adjusting his read on Gamr to fit the general consensus.

I would like to see pistachi0n explain where Gamr "came back strong", and explain why post 242 was "good".

Implosion--Weak scum,

I still think the defense of Garmr was to try to get town points

, whether or not Garmr is scum.

"Get town points" - this would only work if Gamr is town (or if pistachi0n believes/knows Gamr is town).

VOTE: pistachi0n

[Keyser Söze]

I believe pistachi0n is L-3.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Keyser, did you finish catching up on the whole thread? Last I saw you were only up to p10?

[herrcombs]

Just want to fact check you quickly, Soze:

"Null/weak town": pistachi0n's now no longer scum-reads Gamr:

pista was referring to myko here, not Garmr. His null/weak town read was on myko.

[herrcombs]

Also, my questions for pista are pretty much the same as those asked by BBT and Soze, lol

[Dwlee99]

I want to see some reads from you or something that looks like you're trying to figure out the game.

Dierfire--Town, seems to be trying to figure people out, questioning people, moving the game along.

Garmr--I'm not as certain of my scumread as I was earlier, when he claimed it seemed like he was making an appeal to emotion but then he came back strong, I thought 242 and after were good.

Haschel--Null, not a lot of stuff, I don't really understand why he voted Lelandra but there's nothing overtly scummy

Implosion--Weak scum, I still think the defense of Garmr was to try to get town points, whether or not Garmr is scum.

Dwlee--Current scumread, early on was asking filler questions, read like he was posting just to post. He has a lot of content but a lot of it is filler.

VOTE: Dwlee

I assume you're referring to 36 and 73? You say "early on was asking filler questions" when it was only two and I've posted tons of content throughout the game. And that read on implosion, though. I don't get how defending someone is seen as scummy. It would have been scummy had he not commented on the garmr wagon and then later said he was town reading him the entire time. I don't like this reads list at all.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Dwlee, you should absolutely vote for Pistachion. We're approaching the point of the game where we need a flip to progress further.