New York 180 (Endgame)

[elusive]

There are two people with House avatars in this game. Okies, then.

[elusive]

It's because wake is a house alt

It (The House who's user name is House) say's its not an alt or I think that's against the rules or something unless its a hydra I guess? Then though they wouldn't have separate accounts, would they?

Also, Cheetory6's programming thing is kind of funny. If I have time I will try to debug

[elusive]

Hmm...three votes on Grib. That's odd so soon.

FA_QT and crosboss, avatars?

Vote TSO

for being late to the party.

[elusive]

<3 the colors and the L information.

Wow, I didn't realize T S O had so many on him either. Hmm...inside jokes?

Vote Rampage (aka ABR)

[elusive]

Hmm...three votes on Grib. That's odd so soon.

FA_QT and crosboss, avatars?

Vote TSO

for being late to the party.

Not really. Game's got 21 peeps.

What are you doing there?

Yeah, I haven't played a game with this many people. And newbie games, the vote pile up is scary.

So which version of House are you? And what is the other House doing?

[elusive]

And most importantly what are your thoughts on Cuddy?

[elusive]

Ok. Let's generate discussion

@Everyone: what's the biggest flaw in your towngame? Your scumgame?

Yay, meta question time.

Town games (8?)- babbling, hyper, tunnel friendly, sheep-y
Scum game (1) - lurkery, fence-hugger

I'm trying to break some of the meta but expect babbling and hyperness.

Silverwolf, it's cool, 48 was mostly because in the newbie game its like 5 or less to lynch so I was adjusting from that world to this world which is much bigger. What are your other scum hunting tips? What do you think about tunneling to pressure scum?

Wake are you the real House or is House the real House? Which came first? House-House or Wake-House?

[elusive]

What do you think comprises 'being Town,'

elusive

?

Elusive's Guide to What Compromises Being Town
Written by a Not Expert Who Is Most Definitely Not an Expert or Even a Journeywoman but a Novice or a Baby Novice
Do Not Try This At Home Or in a Fireplace

1. Ask many questions of people, sometimes the same ones (fluff questions, mechanics questions, for reads and stuff like that)
2. Once you get a hunch or a vibe or a gut feel then hone in on the target and pressure them lots
3. Your horoscope does not in any way refer to what is going on in the mafia games so don't use that as a sign even though it could be eerily similar
4. Enjoy the game because otherwise if you think about it realistically then basically you are kind of a masochist aren't you?

[elusive]

Hmm...three votes on Grib. That's odd so soon.

FA_QT and crosboss, avatars?

Vote TSO

for being late to the party.

Wait, so you found it weird Grib had three votes, and proceeded to place my fourth vote?

Explain this to me.

What's there to explain?

Oh and SilverWolf, I actually like that but sometimes its hard to think "Where is this coming from?" because people sometimes do things that don't make sense.

[elusive]

I also know Grib from a off-site thing and I agree with SilverWolf's read of him. She also leans town to me.

[elusive]

Are there many people who play to their town meta very well? I imagine it would take some experience to be able to do it flawlessly. Also, if your town meta is known then you're expected to actually get things done. Like the way I read some people isn't whether they are acting town but their results because if they've led lynches on two innocent townies or something like that then they aren't town because that's beneath their play.

Also, isn't that why you start off with a "lean" read and then pressure directly or circle around like sharks for reactions?

Hi acryon

[elusive]

I also know Grib from a off-site thing and I agree with SilverWolf's read of him. She also leans town to me.

Hey there. Did you roll scum?[/quote]

Nope, I never roll scum

Are you town?

I have setup questions or I guess what is this type of setup called and is there a Wiki with possible roles and number of town, scum and any third parties?

TSO, the vote on you was based one me looking at the player list and who I didn't see post yet. Grib posted and you hadn't posted at all and were all lurkery. Anything else?

Although, your explanation of Jared's post in your post #307 doesn't make sense. What the what the what?

GL on exams, though.

[elusive]

That quote that's missing a quote tag is from Gribblypuff's quote.

[elusive]

Maybe people should try reverse psychology on Wake?

Wake, do not vote. It's imperative that you not vote until given permission to do so.

Grib, are you town?

[elusive]

It's interesting because I see what you're saying but you're also removing kind of an aspect of the game that remains as a record. I mean votes are also done for reactions.

However, since you aren't voting - what do you plan to do - just scum hunt until you're ready?

Fight the PEER PRESSURE TO DO STUFF.

It's kind of scary.

[elusive]

Well, you mean play mafia in general or play mafia well? I've been playing mafia for a while now (about 5 forum games some where else and some in progress here and another place and a lot of Town of Salem). However, all my early games I was very sheepy and fluff focused and recently I've been trying to get better at actually playing well.

[elusive]

House, this one is not a He. You may use She.

TSO, your explanation of his post is longer then his post and also unless you're bringing meta into it overly complicated.

[elusive]

Hmmm...., House you silly Smurf, things get weird if you don't. Do you like that sort of attention?

NakedJogger, I have to say your avatar is creepy, well the moving part of it but I'm trying not to be biased against you for it. However, it was funny to think that someone thought I blend in.

[elusive]

Wait so Wake you're saying you're basically extremely aggressive and hurt people's feelings and stuff and that's why you're being all mysterious and bringing in silly "scarcity" discussion into mafia theory and why votes (or not voting) are important? Oh boy. So are you Rampage on steroids in your natural element or is this something totally different?

[elusive]

vikingfan, are you new to mafia? Also do you see why you seem suspicious? It looks like you scum claimed.

[elusive]

Hmm, or he should be tunneled relentlessly because enigma's are meant to be unwrapped.

[elusive]

I'm actually interested in the lynchbait vs. scum conversation. If you called vikingfan or dragonspawn lynchbait - why? If you refer to either them as actual scum (House you in particular seem to use the terms interchangeably at a point) then point out why and the difference.

vikingfan, I haven't gotten an answer from you - you stated that Grib was not bussed for his V\LA comment while you were bussed. Do you see why that is a scum slip? It implies that both you and Grib are scum and that one or more people from you wagon are scum.

Do people think that this scum slip means someone on viking's wagon is his scum buddy? Why or why not?

I skimmed through one of the town and one of the mafia games you linked to vikingfan, it seems like both are from 10 or so years ago. First, have you been playing mafia since then under another or alt account or offsite? Then, your town meta from that game seems to be more aggressive - would you agree?

Horse is beeing agreeable so far.?

Many people are town reading SilverWolf.

Also, considering some of the replaces - what is your or this site's theory on replaces having a higher then average chance of being scum?

dragonspawn, so you have nothing of value to add other then wanting to converse about vampires and horses? I agree with you it can be hard to read players without knowing them but of the different types of things you could do to get a better sense, which have you thought of actually doing so far? And where?

[elusive]

SilverWolf, the vote on ABR was RVS but he has done nothing for me to move the vote.

The debate is of interest to me but I also feel like a bit of an outsider trying to figure out who is saying what and why. My questions to both are intended to help me come to my own conclusion.

Shinobi, for example your point 3. is one I disagree with, acryon consolidated useful information in one place that helps people like me keep track of two popular wagons and who is one them and why. Later on in the game, let's say if one of the two is lynched toDay, then I won't have to slog through pages and tally things myself but just pick up from there. What would you say is acryon's town or scum meta or what are you vibing or feeling there?

Will be back tomorrow for any follow ups.

[elusive]

I’m not really used to the “this post is townie” and then “this post is scummy” way of doing things. It’s seems a bit whiplashy and bipolar. Yes, House that was directed towards you.

I’m not sure about many things in general.

A More Detailed Look at the Vikingfan Wagon and Stuff

*Apologies if I missed something.

Spoiler:

NakedJogger votes vikingfan
Wake mentions he wants to vote Vikingfan
SilverWolf asks Wake why he doesn’t want to put a vote down on Vikingfan
Wake discusses wanting to go after vikingfan but there’s plenty of days left
Vikingfan puts a vote on TSO
Dragonspawn votes Vikingfan (messes up the formatting?)
House calls out dragonspawn for his reasoning for voting Vikingfan
Wake questions many players and specifically states that he wants reactions from Vikingfan
TSO responds to the many votes on him one by one and doesn’t really comment on anything else (basically a huge wall post on his wagon composition)
Pisskop asks why vikingfan is being scumread
Acryon agrees with klingoncelt about vikingfan and votes him
SilverWolf votes vikingfan
Pisskop questions jared615 and votes dragon
Aeronaut votes Dragonspawn
SilverWolf asks for a vikingfan lynch based on his “scum slip”
Klingoncelt votes vikingfan now
Dragonspawn questions vikingfan
Kitz votes Vikingfan based on the “Scum slip”
SilverWolf states that “It seems like every time vikingfan gets a vote, someone else comes along and throws down a vote for dragonspawn.”
Klingoncelt agrees with SilverWolf, adding on that dragonspawn gets lynched early on regularly
SilverWolf brings up the term lynchbait in reference to dragonspawn
Acryon brings up the votes and wagon progressions of dragonspawn and vikingfan and agrees with SilverWolf
SilverWolf agrees with Acryon and how vikingfan’s lynch will help look at the votes on dragonspawn particularly Aero and pisskop and if vikingfan flips town then dragon would be a good D2 vote.
House questions whether scum would vote their buddy to stay off a mislynch
SilverWolf replies, “No, If vikingfan is scum, then dragon is more likely to be town with scum on his wagon. If he's town, then the votes on dragon are not as suspect.”
House states that he is suspicious of people on dragonspawn’s wagon separate from the counterwagon issue.
Aeronaut responds to acryon and explains his reading of dragonspawn (and particularly his vote on vikingfan)
SilverWolf responds to Aeronaut and states that EVERY ONE of vikingfan’s posts read scum to her.
SilverWolf emphasizes her reading of vikingfan as scum over dragonspawn.
FA_Q2 puts a vote on Viking.
Shinobi suspects acryon for being mafia and quotes the votes information as his proof(?)
Pisskop believes that vikingfan is the lynchbait. He questions dragonspawn.
SilverWolf states that she does not believe vikingfan to be lynchbait but straight and out scum. “Plus, he’s an informative lynch due to the counterwagon on dragon”
House also states that vikingfan is not lynchbait but scum. However, he believes that NJ’s theory of him being lynchbait still makes vikingfan a good d1 lynch.
Pisskop states that he agrees with FA_Q2 that vikingfan is lynchbait rather than scum. Unlike SilverWolf, pisskop believes that Vikingfan’s “scum slip” and “RVS question” are genuine and not “feigning ignorance”
SilverWolf states that she notices Aeronaut and pisskop’s resistance to the vikingfan lynch and wants it to go through to get a sense of them as well.
FA_QT states that he actually thinks vikingfan was “feigning ignorance” to cover up his scum slip.
Dragonspawn looks a bit better from this post.
Boonskiies chimes in that dragonspawn’s passiveness indicates scum
Silverwolf asks elusive re: dragon vs. Viking (Anyone else start thinking of How To Train Your Dragon? )
Pisskop responds to elusive’s questions and defends vikingfan as a newb player. He questions dragonspawn, and mentions being suspicious of House.
Vikingfan writes another strange post this time stating that no one is voting for him (okies can there be this level of derpage or has he exhausted the derpage quota ?)
FA_Q2 points out vikingfan’s derpage.
Kitz revotes vikingfan
SilverWolf responds to Vikingfan and particularly his reads on her as being suspicious.
Aeronaut still feels that Viking is lynchbait but he will sheep SilverWolf (also suspects Boon and NakedJogger)

I think vikingfan, dragonspawn, and TSO were the wagons that kind of built off each other or in reaction to each other. If I had to choose one of them to lynch today I would choose vikingfan but I can't tell if he's scum or major derp and my gut says town lynchbait.

vikingfan - major town derpage or scum slip derpage and then trying to cover up by "feigning ignorance?" - Would his scum buddies try to coach him to stop being so derpscum? Would he ask his scum buddies questions about RVS in their chat topic? viking, you should try out somew newbie games.

dragonspawn - Rampage and klingoncelt and a few others point out that this is his style of play. He doesn't read particularly scummy if that is taken into account unless replying to votes on him (aka calls out Boonskiies for calling him out for not scum hunting which is NOU).

TSo - wagon built off quickly on him in RVS and then he basically responded mostly to votes on him over anything else going on.

People I think need to be pressured or questioned:

Croboss - (I know its replacing but whoever takes that slot, its first post was meh and connected to Wake\dragonspawn)
Jared615 - barely posting
TSO - see explanations for Jared and also just the naval gazing rather than moving onto other players
Boonskiies - seems distracted and not posting a lot of tangible
Cheetory - can't find a post of his that stands out in terms of reads
House - just in general seems to do what is expected or asked of him
NakedJogger - uncouthness, ewww. Also it's a beautiful world, have some chocolate or a hug a stuffed animal or like a real person.

In general, I'm not a vote hopper and I also don't follow the crowd. I actally did agree with Wake's post on votes.

Vote: Jared615

Hi there, how's it going? What are your thoughts on the game so far?

Specifically, what are your reads on the following players:
1. Grib
2. Wake
3. vikingfan
4. dragonspawn
5. TSO
6. Kitz

Thank you

P.S. If I missed any questions then restate them, tanks...

[elusive]

Elusive, Why go through the entire game and summarize the wagons if you weren't going to vote for either of them anyway?

Mostly to keep track of who said what. If one of those wagons go through, then it'll all be in one place to look back upon. So if viking does flip town or scum, then its clear who led the lynch and what reason they provided or who they agreed to\are possibly aligned with. We have some days left to consolidate and many people haven't spoken yet.

NJ, I don't know. You tell me...

[elusive]

Also, its possible one of the wagons arose to counter TSO. So that was something I thought was important to note.

[elusive]

I don't know if he's scum, but he's scummy. He hasn't posted much aka is lurking actively, posts to sheep someone (House, rather then actually read the thread and make his own case\decision), and is just AWOL. Then the wierd almost pre-emptive explanation of his simple vote on TSO by TSO seemed to ping me as off.

[elusive]

TSO, I don't see a link? Also, can you point to a post in this game that you deem to be strong analysis?

[elusive]

VOTE: TSO

Aeronaut and Silverwolf seem very town to me.

(I can't seem to quote easily or something, idk) so just linking to TSO's intial post http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p6592644 re: Jared's vote on him which was to state:

"This is another bad vote, but could be town.

Most of these votes feel town in their nonchalance, which really sucks."

And then in #303 regarding the same posthttp://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... d#p6595738 Jared quoted above.

"This is town because Jared, in this post, is openly saying he is voting the largest wagon (which I don't think scum would do with literally 0 explanation) as well as saying, by proxy, that he has read the game. This is a questionable move, and he's not leaving himself any back doors by saying he hasn't read either. For me, this is quite town, more because of the naked vote than any other."



I don't see why there is so much explanation of Jared who has barely done anything this game and also stated this after TSO explanation's:

Sorry if I'm being a bit lazy this game.
yes I bandwagoned TSO.
I really do need to do some more reading.

1. How can TSO know for sure that Jared or that post is town and not want to pressure him or anything? Unlike klingoncelt and others who stated that dragonspawn plays the way he does even though it seems scummy (and also link to his games and such), TSO doesn't offer any meta explanation or anything on why he provides a whole rationalization of Jared's actions. Jared's own explanation doesn't quite fit with TSO's - he basically states he is lazy, hasn't read, and bandwagoned. All of which are pointing to scummy to me by a lot.

Unless there is masons or a role that knows another, it seems like a lot of explanation\defensiveness for someone who has contributed very little. Jared pings me off and I can't tell what townie mindset TSO would have to hard defend someone so early in the game without any night actions or anything to corroborate such as tunneling.

NJ, lol that was funny. Which Spice Girl are you? I like V, she sounds like a classy lady.

Aeronaut, unless night actions or etc corroborate I generally don't 100% scum or town read anyone. Also, I've gotten two fellow townies killed once for things that I thought were obviously scummy and I'm still feeling cautious. So yeah, if that is going to trouble you then I suggest following through. I'm not a fan of empty threats.

[elusive]

House

Post #637 - Well, it also allows the person doing it to actually waffle and not be clear on what they find suspicious and whether they are stating that someone is lean town but acting scummy or lean scum but acting townie.
Post #638 - Manipulative? How so? You're meta as described by someone else (Aero?) is that you're abrasive and aggressive but so far you've only acted that way in this game when someone reminds you (such as celt waiting for you to rage post and you complying with a jokey one, aka trying to play to expectations?)
Post #640 - Chainsawing? Also, you're not my main focus so I'm not sure why you expect to be. However, like TSO would you point to an example of really strong\perfect analysis in this game (maybe even two examples one done by you and one done by not you).

[elusive]

House, I have responded to TSO on this. Point out what I haven't responded to. Also, that means you can't point to an example of strong anaylsis by you and someone else this game? I'm wary of people who harp on analysis and can't even point to any strong examples of what this consists of. It basically leads to changing the goal post when a person does try.

[elusive]

I have no idea why you have to call me a tool, are you angry or being a troll? I mean it almost seems like a bit of an act going on with you.

Also, I did respond to #629 that but in case you missed it (Grib had posted already in thread and I know of Grib from somewhere else and TSO had not posted at all so it seemed like people were pressuring him to post which a few stated in thread and I agree with voting people who aren't posting or being lurkery).

Anything else? What is chainsawing other then something to kill zombies with?

[elusive]

House, bolded for you.

I also know Grib from a off-site thing and I agree with SilverWolf's read of him. She also leans town to me.

Hey there. Did you roll scum?

Nope, I never roll scum

Are you town?

I have setup questions or I guess what is this type of setup called and is there a Wiki with possible roles and number of town, scum and any third parties?

TSO, the vote on you was based one me looking at the player list and who I didn't see post yet. Grib posted and you hadn't posted at all and were all lurkery. Anything else?

Although, your explanation of Jared's post in your post #307 doesn't make sense. What the what the what?

GL on exams, though.[/quote]

And:

I also know Grib from a off-site thing and I agree with SilverWolf's read of him. She also leans town to me.

There's at least one or two more relating to Grib.

Also, I can't chainsaw when I don't have any scum mates and since you weren't even on my top focus (see my vote on Jared), it seems lik you do like drawing attention to yourself.

[elusive]

SilverWolf, there's already people pressuring vikingfan and pressuring or defending dragonspawn. I'm not a leader type, but I also don't follow crowds and there isn't a player who has spoken yet who I feel comfortable sheeping.

The fact that Jared hasn't posted much at all (and was defended by TSO pre-emptively almost) speaks out to me. There's also connections between vikingfan (for example if he flips scum then does that mean Grib is scum since he used bus to refer to both of them OR if he flips town then does that mean that certain people are less likely to be scum?).

[elusive]

House, you're so silly. It's funny.

I thought TSO was linking that for me to respond to his read on Jared (see his prior question on that).

SilverWolf, do you think that the fact that Jared has contributed so little is strange or normal or? What are your thoughts on that?

[elusive]

Ok, well I think when I see a player who is lurking and who states or implies they aren't reading, then they lean scum to me.

As for vikingfan, when its time to consolidate lynches I'll go with what I feel then. Since he's basically halfway or more to the noose, it's time to pressure other reads\people\etc. Also, if he really is that derp!scum (and its not just a noobish town flailing or high or something) then woah. However, I tend to rarely think things are going to be so easy as scum handing themselves all filleted on a plate and even sprinkling a bit of lemon on themselves for town perusal.

[elusive]

Grib, I've interacted with many people who are not lurking.

My lean towns so far were: Wake (who I would maybe sheep if he were not V\LA), SilverWolf (already stated in thread), acryon, FA_Q2, Aeronaut, Rampage (idk maybe), Celt,

My Need to Be Pressured Pile is: Naked Jogger, Cheetory, Boonskiies, Croboss\Replace, Jared615, House, TSO
I voted Ramapage in RVS and stayed because he hasn't done the thing he does quite yet.
I voted Jared615 because of the post I quoted + TSO defending him + I hate lurkers which is my meta in general.

My I Have No Clue Pile is: Everyone else

Also, you didn't answer my like thrice repeated question? Are you a townie green ninja shadow cat?

NJ, hmm...different people play different ways. This is my playstyle. I disagree with your read of it and also your sacrilege against Victoria Beckham who even if she was a maneater which is in itself relevant, is legit status.

I'm also still waiting your tunnel....or I guess 1 vs. 1 whichever or both they are.

[elusive]

I don't want to get with you, your avatar's mouth reminds me of a horror movie. My reasons are there or vibes. You mean you can't feel the vibes?

[elusive]

NakedJogger, I suggest that you tunnel or pressure without having to take the recourse of unnecessary language. Once that Pandora's box is open, there's no coming back.

House, the problem is that you can create any amount of WIFOM to read any player in this thread the way you're putting it on thick. I could make a case such as you'rs on each player in this thread. It would be fake.

Don't really care, I'm town, I won't go down without a fight. I respond in kind so be careful what you wish for.

[elusive]

OMG, House you caught me. I'm scum and tonight you're my NK target. You're like so smart, like I never stood a chance. Whatever shall I do now?

Also, the bolded part - you can pressure or tunnel someone without being a dbag. If you are a dbag then you get treated like one. Abrasive is fine, but there are limits.

[elusive]

vikingfan, it's interesting to see you posting like a real player now, are you being coached or? Since it may turn out that you are the lynch for toDay, who do you think town should look at closely if you flip town? Can you do a last reads or will post?

Wake88, vikingfan wrote in a post that he found it interesting that the response to his V\LA was for players to buss him while the response to Grib's V\LA did not result in bussing. That read like a massive scum slip to most, I think. I'm more interested in what people think should happen once he flips either town or scum. If he flips scum do they look at those who were voting him at the time of the post? Does that mean Grib needs to be looked at? Etc.

Aeronaut, you can start now.

[elusive]

There's a massive difference in his posting from before where he was like a lost lamb and since a few posts ago where he actually makes sense and seems to be playing mafia. Why is it disgusting?

[elusive]

No, I'm not an alt. Although, I'm curious to who you think I would be an alt of. I'm not sure what the "encryptor" part means but if there was anything bad about that it was wondering if he would make another scum slip which you kind of defused from happening. What is your take on the vikingfan vs. dragonspawn wagons?

[elusive]

Because if he's scum he has a scum chat? That is where the coaching would happen? What are enycryptors or link?

On the one hand if we take his alleged scum slip as real then that means life is a bit easier for us because that means at the time he made that post, there was at least one scum buddy on his wagon. That also means that Grib is most likely scum.

However, I have yet to play a game where the player lynched day one was scum so I'm a bit wary and cautious of it.

[elusive]

Well that's different from other sites where it depends on the game. Is that true of all mafiscum games or just certain ones?

[elusive]

So if that is true then he can't receive coaching until night anyway and there is no pre-game start coaching or talk?

[elusive]

Just lynch Boon.

Isn't a vikingfan lynch more informative? If he does flip scum then there's a lead to follow? If he flips town it gives different set of information?

[elusive]

Just lynch Boon.

Isn't a vikingfan lynch more informative? If he does flip scum then there's a lead to follow? If he flips town it gives different set of information?

Why are you pushing for a lynch but not voting for them?

I know what he thinks about dragonspawn, but I want to know what he thinks of vikingfan. Why should I vote for a wagon when there are about 6 days left? People should weigh in on it before the flip and not everyone has.

[elusive]

SilverWolf, I have some setup questions. With 21 players what is the ratio of town to scum? Or I guess the average ratio for large games?

[elusive]

SilverWolf, I have some setup questions. With 21 players what is the ratio of town to scum? Or I guess the average ratio for large games?

Check out this game. It's a 21 player closed normal. It should give you a rough idea. I'm not saying this game is the same as that one. It probably isn't. But it might help you with ratio's.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=58830

Also, you are reading newbtown to me.

Ok, thanks for the link. It seems like there could be up to 6-7 scum\serial killer\third parties in total but probably not more then that.

vikingfan, I suggest keeping an eye on the thread since with the recent vote you might be at L-2 (or L-1?). No one else should vote without letting him claim.

[elusive]

Holy eff, this is a hot mess.

So you can be protected, there's that but you need to then check who town (majority or whoever you trust) asks you to check tonight.

I think people need to get off his wagon asap.

[elusive]

We should also take a look at the people who were trying to steamroll Viking's lynch.

boonskiies, why dragonspawn? Do you think he was the scum counter wagon to Viking? Or?

[elusive]

viking, the way you phrased it makes me think there is town, scum, and possibly third party in this game. It also fits with the numbers ratio from the other game.

Cop can be verified by role cop, watcher, tracker, type roles.
Cop can be protected by bodyguard or have a switcher type role switch all actions from the cop to another character. Or doctor too. So if all goes well then scum can't NK you, they can do other things but not NK unless they have something piercing type. Or I guess if there is a serial killer and a scum and both target a player and the player is protected by a bodyguard or a doctor, does that cover both murder attempts?

[elusive]

dragonspawn, can you link to some of your recent games on here? Just to get a sense of whether the people defending you based on meta or so (which were several with klingoncelt and Rampage the ones I remember most clearly) matches up?

[elusive]

My feeling is that if viking is what he claims and klingon\rampage can be trusted re:dragon then both wagons have been town so far.

[elusive]

ika, I'm voting Jared615 as of post #619 and he also probably needs a prod at this point (?).

TSO, are the setup questions the kind you could ask ika either in a PM or in the thread?

[elusive]

I guess the other thing for town to do is to narrow down 3-5 people for vikingfan to check and he choose from those? 3-5 so that scum don't know for sure.

[elusive]

Grib, I missed you and also *huggles*

[elusive]

NakedJogger, do you usually write stories like that about many of your fellow players? I hope you write one about some others too so I don't feel like you're serial killer vibes are all for me.

[elusive]

SilverWolf, my goal isn't to be town read due to derpage. Mostly I'd like to be a Watson (BBC, Martin Freeman version) to a Holmes.

Aeronaut, because they seem too easy.

[elusive]

unvote

well, that is a change of pace.

One post that has not sat well with me thus far:

~ SNIP ~

A lot of people are reading elusive as town but I really do not get that. This post reads like randomly tossing out reads to seem town. He is reading me as town and really there is little reason to do so considering the limited posting that I have been able to do (and then states he hates lurkers). I think that thus far he is the ONLY player to do so. @elusive - why are you reading me as town?

Vote: Elusive

(and yes, I just scum read someone because they town read me...)

FA_Q2, it was the post you made about why I might be keeping my vote on someone which mirrored my own thoughts and thus felt like a townie mindset. Each of the people on that list are there for a reason, you only have to ask. Cheetory linked to your post above (I'm not sure how its sleazy though?).

Oh and P.S. Elusive is a She, you see when you read my post and then looked at the avatar and name its right there, in the open. Ta da!

Aeronaut, maybe my paranoia levels are high but the last point you made seem to give scum bright ideas about CCing tomorrow. If a player was cop and didn't CC today (which I think unlikely given they there is possibility of protection) then I imagine they are playing the long game and will wait for a scum result to claim. I don't know, a player ccing tomorrow - they would need to give us a scum to be believed.

[elusive]

Vote House

Someone else stated the reasons and I agree.

If Jared is replaced although I am still not a fan of the lurkers or the active lurker or the pretending to do stuff but lurking.

[elusive]

My reasons for voting House (some of which were already stated in my posts btw)
1. He's whiplashed with the "this is townie" then "this is scum" way too much - it makes it seem like he could jump out and go either way with those kinds of back and forth
2. Seems super aggressive but when I look back I can't figure out how his aggressiveness is moving the game forward and also was trying to steamroll the viking lynch
3. Skimming the other game (the one you linked to) he was scum and it seems like he's doing the same things here

[elusive]

House, it's right here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=58830

Stated by TSO regarding you, "Him keeping his options open should have been a scumtell but there were a lot of weird dynamics in this LyLo which made it kinda acceptable to do."

Also, what are your reads other then dragonspawn? Do you have any? What are your thoughts on all of the active players so far? Concrete thoughts such as lean town, lean scum or null. Not the wishy washy stuff.

[elusive]

@Kitz: I don't see any discrepancies with ABR's play.

Can you describe his town meta vs. his scum meta?

[elusive]

Okies porcupine, let's try this a different way.

House, where is your vote right now and why? If you had to move your vote upon someone else who would you vote for and why?

[elusive]

House, where is your vote right now and why?

You could always check the ISO...

From what I recall his last vote was vikingfan and he just moved it off the claimed cop, I wanted to see his reaction.

I do know about ISO although its a bit messy for people in multiple games.

[elusive]

Kitz, what is you town vs. scum meta on ABR? If you had to switch votes, who would you be voting other than ABR and why?

House, yeah I didn't see that I was just clicking on player's names and viewing their posts. Thanks, that's useful and better then trying to search the posts. Yay, progress.

[elusive]

Well my PC version of meta on ABR is, "Yells a lot and wants to quick kill people and randomly jumps from person to person and is kind of mean," but I don't know if that's in general or different based on alignments. It's been quieter in this game.

Activity Overview is a good tool to, all the people below 20 posts should be interrogated and stuff.

[elusive]

Oh yeah, Kitz if you had to vote someone other then ARB who would it be and why?

[elusive]

I'm not a fan of Rampage lynch day one because he's not a lurker and also he can be fun to watch. Bad to claim, you prolly weren't going to be lynched but I guess you could confirm Vikingfan.

Wake, whoah are you being IC or something or I guess don't get hurt. Also be awesome town detective stuff so I have someone to sheep.

[elusive]

Eff phone posting.

Boonskies, rampage and you are totally different. You get turned into a llama for hubris for one thing and also beyond dragon what are your reads?

[elusive]

Pisskop seems like a nice girl, I will answer her questions when I'm at a computer. I don't know if kitz is scum or town but she has a nice avatar. Kitz what do you think?

[elusive]

Kitz, roles outside of that are possible too. In fact, I'm pretty sure there are town roles that aren't explicitly stated there or similar function but different name. I'm also interested in the claimed roles seeming to be continuous as compares to roles that are one shot or have some limits. It's ika so there's room for creativity.

[elusive]

Kitz, town mentality is Never give up, never surrender.

You can fight this off, if your town self shines through.

I remembered know how annoying it was.

[elusive]

Oh ok, I thought you were getting ready to claim.

[elusive]

Kitz, are you an alt?

Aeronaut, from what I can tell Kitz only has two or so games on this site so unless she's an alt, she is a newbie and some of her questions were the same kinds that I had. I can think of townie mindsets for what she's thinking. Wondering about the setup is a real thing, the only reason I haven't asked more questions is because of fearing of giving too much away.

I get that Rampage's little Russian Roulette game may glean some dividends but I haven't seen it work yet. I've also never been in a game (in my probably short history) where scum died from a day one lynch. Do people have stats on it (ABR's success rate of scum lynches)

I'd rather see people go after a strong player and see what happens or reactions from that. Therefore, my vote on House. Maybe I'll switch to Wake or one of the other Boss type Pokemon.

And yes if I had to choose, I would choose to lynch a lurker most times because from my brief experience they become a thorn in the side. Also usually newb scum heavy lurks.

I don't like your last line, "cool wagon," doesn't equal "wagon on scum."

[elusive]

House, you won as scum a large normal game so you're on the orange threat level list.

kitz

Spoiler:

, oddball is good, and night. Also I don't get the obsession with brevity in this site so hopefully you talk more. How can you determine a person if they don't talk a lot and therefore slip or contradict or something?

"FA_Q2

Spoiler:

, it was the post you made about why I might be keeping my vote on someone which mirrored my own thoughts and thus felt like a townie mindset." To clarify, it was this post here and the bolded part which is what I think too:

Spoiler:

SilverWolf, the vote on ABR was RVS but he has done nothing for me to move the vote.

The debate is of interest to me but I also feel like a bit of an outsider trying to figure out who is saying what and why. My questions to both are intended to help me come to my own conclusion.

Shinobi, for example your point 3. is one I disagree with, acryon consolidated useful information in one place that helps people like me keep track of two popular wagons and who is one them and why. Later on in the game, let's say if one of the two is lynched toDay, then I won't have to slog through pages and tally things myself but just pick up from there. What would you say is acryon's town or scum meta or what are you vibing or feeling there?

Will be back tomorrow for any follow ups.

What has he done to make you want to keep your vote on him?

Your post reads as extremely scummy.

Why?

When the person that was 'pressured' to responds fails to do so and is not in threat of lynching at the time, what is scummy about vote parking until there is a better candidate. I usually do this as well tbh and don't move my vote until there is someone that I read as scum. It is why my vote sat so long on shinobi until viking started posting like scum and the case against him pulled my vote.

pisskop to your responses, yay for the spoilers feature:

Spoiler:

1. How can TSO know for sure that Jared or that post is town and not want to pressure him or anything? Unlike klingoncelt and others who stated that dragonspawn plays the way he does even though it seems scummy (and also link to his games and such), TSO doesn't offer any meta explanation or anything on why he provides a whole rationalization of Jared's actions. Jared's own explanation doesn't quite fit with TSO's - he basically states he is lazy, hasn't read, and bandwagoned. All of which are pointing to scummy to me by a lot.

Unless there is masons or a role that knows another, it seems like a lot of explanation\defensiveness for someone who has contributed very little. Jared pings me off and I can't tell what townie mindset TSO would have to hard defend someone so early in the game without any night actions or anything to corroborate such as tunneling.

This is pretty overreachy. Jared hasn't posted much at all, but I don't see what is to be gained by voting an inactive slot on D1 that has only said null things. If that slot or TSO flips scum, then we have an association ready to go; but I don't see a Jared lynch just for the inactivity that newbies bring.
. Do you consider a D1 vote on a flat lurker viable? Why?

Yes, I do consider a D1 vote and lynch of a flat lurker viable. Are scums possibly lurkers? Yes. Can a person who's being a lurker whether on purpose or if not on purpose (Wouldn't they tell the mod to v\la) that means that they are afraid to talk so that people can't read through their lies. Lynch Active Lurkers and Replace Lurkers ASAP is a theory of mine.

Aeronaut, unless night actions or etc corroborate I generally don't 100% scum or town read anyone. Also, I've gotten two fellow townies killed once for things that I thought were obviously scummy and I'm still feeling cautious. So yeah, if that is going to trouble you then I suggest following through. I'm not a fan of empty threats.

Why are you threatening people now? I agree that Threats in mafia are kinda silly, but you are actively making the situation worse by reciprocating instead of determining the motivation behind them. Its a pretty bad thing for town cohesion, to be so agonistic.

How am I threatening in this post? I threatened in the other post that if you cross lines of civility with me, I go off the rails real quick. In this I was stating if he finds it scummy he should put a vote where his mouth is.

We should also take a look at the people who were trying to steamroll Viking's lynch.

And who do you suggest?

Umm...House? That's why I voted House? There's others who kept saying "vote vikingfan" but he stood out to me most.

My reasons for voting House (some of which were already stated in my posts btw)
1. He's whiplashed with the "this is townie" then "this is scum" way too much - it makes it seem like he could jump out and go either way with those kinds of back and forth
2. Seems super aggressive but when I look back I can't figure out how his aggressiveness is moving the game forward and also was trying to steamroll the viking lynch
3. Skimming the other game (the one you linked to) he was scum and it seems like he's doing the same things here

1) is your issue with the consistency of it, the act of rating so many posts, or something else?
2) Provide an example of what you mean wrt 'not moving the game forward'. I certainly see the steamrolling, however.
3) You read through his meta? What did his non-scum games reveal? How many games did you read?

---

2)
I didn't read through his entire meta, that's probably Herculean. I skimmed through his scum game that was linked as an example of large normal by silverwolf (mostly skimmed the ending where players commentated) and also based on another game of his briefly. So only two.

silverwolf

Spoiler:

I can't promise not to fluff because I very unsecretly adore fluff but I will try my best to gain your approval.

[elusive]

acryon,

Spoiler:

Enjoyed this site while it lasted, but an overzealous mod combo'd with ambiguous rules and unequal application has soured it for me.

@Mod: Replace me please.

ika is a very fair and just (as in tries to help players and not antagonize them) mod and doesn't do things like that so you don't have to leave this game. Also you're the nicest person I met here and you could be an awesome mentor\IC person so you should stay. I would start a protest or something in a thread against the bad Mod and make it known so other people know too.

[elusive]

Isn't it a bit much for a -game noob to jump into a Large? She knows no one, she doesn't even know all the roles.

That is, assuming that she's both Town and

not

an alt.

If she is NoobTown, how much help can she give us as the game progresses?

It all smells a bit fishy to me.

"If she is NoobTown, how much help can she give us as the game progresses?"

So, you want to lynch a noob town Kitz for this reason? I'm trying to figure out where this is coming from or why it would make sense to state this.

Vote: klingoncelt

[elusive]

He already stated what he thinks pretty clearly, are you reading the thread?

[elusive]

Oh and if you're keeping options open then you shouldn't pretend to be all actively doing stuff, that's not keeping options open that's seeming like you're all busy when you're not.

House, orange is my least favorite color. Surprise. All the other colors are so nice though. I guess it could be threat level purple.

[elusive]

So you think klingoncelt is town? Can someone describe her town vs scum meta? From what I can tell she's not a newbie. Dragon has defenders but I do not get his selective reading of the thread.

FA, your tone is so arrogant, are you scum and prepping me for a nk?
If not, bring it now. I answered your question, do you have any more or is that the extent of your hunting?
Do you have any scum reads beyond the low hanging fruit?

Klingoncelt, hey there.

[elusive]

Unvote

Klingon, I agree with #1031. Actually the only part that pinged me off was "if its a noobtown then it wont be useful" by which logic we could just kill the claimed cop. I would look more at the active lurkers like jared who posted a little during rvs or a bit here and there like some otehrs and then dissipated. Based on activity overview and ISO who do you think?

[elusive]

Vote Boonskiies

2 days left to deadline and thats all your contributions?

I feel good about kitz. Celt, what is purpose of claiming that role? At least if you're claiming without the need to do so, you soft claim something that might make scum target you over actual prs. Not a fan of that claim at all.

NJ, I will revise your horrid diary entry at some point.

[elusive]

pisskop, NakedJogger is being a really antagonistic brat. Do you have any concerns about this?

NakedJogger, I suggest you try a modicum of civility. This dbag shtick might have worked for you in other games but stop trying to overcompensate.

Everyone voting ABR, he's claimed tracker so are you stating that he's fake claiming or what?. There's two town outed roles that are investigative and I'm assuming there's more then 1 protective role as well so they can both be covered for at least first night reads.

House, I totally agree with your sentiment. Totally. I get you because it's like "hello reason? rhyme's calling and wants to know when you died". I wish you hadn't replaced because you're the non dbag abrasive which is always fun.

boonskiees, kling is a she. Also, who are your 2-3 scummiest reads?

Ellie, are you an alt? You don't seem new\new. What's your mafia experience?

croboss and acryon have to be replaced. croboss seems to have been a noob who was overwhelmed. idk acryon.

CHeetory6, why do you have such less posts? Why?

[elusive]

oh and to clarify, the comment re:house has nothing to do with ika. it's just a general feeling re this site that that rule needs to be better explained and also be clear in terms of what does compromise and what doesn't compromise.

[elusive]

Actually I was thinking of that too (re voting NJ).

TBH, I haven't played a game with ABR from start to finish but it seems like he's known for being good at certain town things by other people. I'd rather kill a few people before him. It also seems like he gets NKed a lot night one? Is that true of people who have played with him?

Klingoncelt, based on the fact that so far I've never played a game where scum was lynched day one and also your sentiments - how do you feel about no lynch? Or lynching someone like cheetory?

[elusive]

MathBlade, hi!

You might recognize me from another place where I used to be a wicked troublemaker and stuff like that but I've been delyriumed so stuff.

{Wonders if Titus would even notice it}

Boon, no. Lies. I wish you to be lynched madly.

[elusive]

So you haven't been reading the thread and want to kill town and also refuse to even take the time to address people by their proper genders. Wow its really difficult between you and NJ. I mean I phone post a ton and phone posting doesn't hide simple things like avatars, names, etc.

Kitz, I don't know if NJ is some maniac town or actually scum trying to target newbs for some reason.

[elusive]

Why would he say "Good luck town" that seems a little excessive or is that a scum House thing to do?

[elusive]

MathBlade, vikingfan claimed cop.

[elusive]

Ellie, do I or my alter ego know you from somewhere else?

Vikingfan, do you have any original thoughts?

Boon, hmm...so voting you got you to actually try even if its a little tryhard much?

[elusive]

Ellie, do I know you from elsewhere or else when?

Mathblade, those are not my roles.

[elusive]

Mysterious mysteriousness.

[elusive]

So, Mathblade Rampage is the same town or scum? As in capable of anything?

No, that was for Ellie.

No my role is to be a bird who eats berries all day long.

[elusive]

Rampage, I doubt scum would be able to.figure that out.

I'll vote NJ when I'm at a comp. Or lets see if this works

NakedJogger

[elusive]

VOTE: NakedJogger

[elusive]

Thanks, MathBlade also did you only get the Lyr thing now?

[elusive]

I don't know how to read klingoncelt at this point but I feel better about her then I do about Naked Jogger who found two targets (first me and then Kitz) and started this exaggerated nonsense to try to paint us as scum. Who are his other scum reads? Like today? When players only go after the new, easy, or fluffy targets - I find it suspicious.

[elusive]

MathBlade, I was scared of being my fluffy self (also trying to be a teensy bit more serious because like SW admonished me in Stern Tone Of Silver).

However, blatantly thefting myself:

However, this leads me into Fluffy Questions for Town (Scum Plz Do Not Answer So We Know Who U R, xo)
1. Which do you like being more? Town or scum?
2. What is your favoritest color for flowers?
3. Are you scum?
4. If you could turn into an animal, what would it be?
5. What are your favorite scum hunting strategies and how do they work?

Oh and bonus question for like the Truly Amazing:

Who is the most dangerous player (for either alignment) in this game's player list and why?

P.S. Re: trouble - I think storms manifest towards me and catch me up. It might be because I feel bad for them. Or because if you get trapped in one then you get to go to a colorful world of magic and stuffs.

[elusive]

Yeah, this avatar is not working. I didn't even recognize myself while reading the past couple of pages. Boo.

[elusive]

Rampage, why?

Ok, because I just thought, "Wouldn't it be fun if we lynched Ozgin before he could even post?" but I'm town so its possible klingon just had the same kinds of thoughts.

[elusive]

Ha ha, Boonskiies its because your rude which means you still are too hubris. I thought for someone with a performance background you would be more entertaining.

Aeronaut, because it's still the first day and also I wished to do it so I did. Also, it gets people talking and if they don't answer then I get to post after each post they make and ask them to answer until they do so.

Kitz, I am on no meds, I am fueled by whatever powers Spongebob. I also don't like NJ's disappearance. Where is he?

[elusive]

Actually dragon, Ellie responded first. So again what is going on with your selective reading?

[elusive]

Wake & Oz:

Vikingfan claimed cop at L2 or L3 I believe so there was pressure
ABR, under no pressure, claimed town tracker
Klingoncelt under light pressure (less than half a wagon) claimed Vanilla and then later claimed that town would lose if they lynched her
NakedJoggers like a few others (pisskop and Boonskiies) focused excessively on the newer players such as myself or Kitz or etc to be scum but don't really pursue\hunt\question or ignore attempts to answer questions. NakedJoggers also seemed to want to elicit reactions from me or Kitz but probably not the kind he expected. Then see MathBlade ISO.
Also resistance to NJ's lynch makes me wonder.

Boonskiies you're NOU is boring, do you have any other scumspects or want to actually lead a wagon on with you know reasoning? Also totally shipping Dragonboon or Boonspawn. Also, you a TVD fan?

[elusive]

Boonskiies, I'm not sure what connection you see between me and Ellie as there is no in-game connection and idk about the rest. Wake have you played with Ellie before and know of their play style?

I think NakedJogger + pisskop are my top scum suspects for today. One or the other should be lynched. pisskop for his selective questioning and for his jumping on NJ's targets which seemed odd. I wasn't sure if NJ was erratic town or scummy but his lack of being here to defend or prior inability to have actual scummy targets beyond the newish seems to imply scummy wolf trying to get the tiny lambs.

Ozgin, you can also ISO NakedJogger at this point and do a recap of what you see there? Someone possibly impartial coming in and doing a summary would be helpful.

[elusive]

Well, you're probably not getting lynched today? If you want to help people town read you, post a read wall or something

^

[elusive]

Oh wow, so go after the guy who asked for replace? Being fluffy and defending people he thinks to be town are part of Grib's meta.

You on the other hand have contributed nothing. Again, going for an easy target.

And Grib,

[elusive]

MathBlade, yeah I joined here due to him

Also, I kind of retired the Former Names and Known Accomplices. Most likely the main one will be Estival, or Es. This site doesn't allow for name switching so its more awkward. Also, imagine if I wanted a secret alt I'd be screwed.

NakedJogger, he was reading at a point and also he knows certain players meta. I don't know why all your scum reads are so easy. Easy here is players who's natural style is not all deductive logic or psychological reaction testing.

[elusive]

pisskop, the people who say stuff like "tomorrow blah blah blah wagon" I think that they suffer from a heavy dose of procrastination. Get in my face now instead of waiting for night actions like all scum cowards and their underlings.

[elusive]

Yeah, NJ's "scum" targets are all baby fruit that's unripe so he seems like a scum. It seems like he's trying very very hard to not be associated with any players who aren't "light." That is any major players. Afraid to flip and be associated with someone?

pisskop, I have 2 modes. Fluffy with a bit of aggression or aggressive as hell with loopy fluff. I haven't really gotten aggressive yet but I'm sure you'll miss the fluff mode.

Re: people saying stuff about MathBlade. The last game I was on a forum she had the scum team pegged and it was the stupidity of town including me that led to town losing. I've never seen her as scum so idk about that. Sometimes it can be hard to understand her hints or follow her reads because she's also a mix of emotional\intuitive especially if you're dense. I suggest people cut down the attacking playstyle anyway because that road leads to sadness and cruelty and burn books.

[elusive]

@Ika or Titus - would it be okay if I switch to estival and played with that account? It's going to be a mess if I try to have two accounts at the same time?

Lynch NakedJogger people.

[elusive]

Cowardly scum and their ridiculously unfashionable scum underlings, boo boo boo.

[elusive]

That wasn't meant for you in particular.

If people really think that both wagons are town or are are uneasy on them then GET THE FUCK OFF.

[elusive]

MathBlade, you have to refer to me as Es or Estival or even Elusive but not my former because she was reckless and volatile and we are trying to be a whole new person full of serenity.

[elusive]

pisskop, etc., can you explain NakedJogger's choosing Grib of all people to make a case against (putting down a vote on a person without a wagon) and the disappearing? How is that town?

Vote NakedJogger

[elusive]

How do you know NakedJogger is a town PR or is town at all?

[elusive]

Yes, I know. It was a statement not a vote.

[elusive]

I don't believe in lynching for the sake of lynching especially day one. 9.9 times out of 10, day one lynches in my small experience have been of town. However, barring that the night kill should provide data as well so its not as if the lynch going through in itself would provide some spectacular game breaking insight.

You vote people to pressure them, to reaction, or test the waters but you don't vote people because everyone else's doing it. The lynch vote should be your strongly held belief that this person should die for their crimes against the town.

[elusive]

If NJ or the other cowardly scums nk me, please make sure he dies tomorrow. Ugh, that post is so scum.

Klingon, now is the time to say your piece before your flip and who you think we should look at.

[elusive]

Vikingfan should be protected and then ramapge I think although that one is messier. I'll random and see what happens.

Maybe narrow it to three people vikingfan and choose the scummiest?

Not loving the wake vs SW thing. Wake antagonize or tunnel someone else, not reading the game is scummy. Not moving the game forward is also scummy. If you can't catch up then at least tunnel someone for reactions.

Shinoni, really? Based on how klingon flips how does that change your thoughts ? What do you make of njs hammer and that last post? Where in the game does it show that you were considering moving to kl?

[elusive]

Piskop yeah whatever scumboi

Shinobi, your iso tells me that you said you would look at tso and acryon day one but you really didn't do much even with them

[elusive]

Ellie, I'm scared of you

[elusive]

Yes but you're verified as potentially evil and I prefer simple, honest folks to clever magicians

[elusive]

But Wake, I'm asking so nicely. So far.

[elusive]

lol, Aeronaut. #rihanna 4ever

Spoiler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt0g4dWxEBo

[elusive]

Kitz, Kanye West is a singer\performer\public personality. He became famous because of the Taylor Swift incident. He has some songs that are decent and he's known for a massive ego. I'm not sure if his incidents are real or part of publicity stunts. He's also married to Kim Kardashian and has a baby with her. Etc.

[elusive]

Is there a way to turn off seeing the avatars of certain people?

[elusive]

OMG Wake, I recognize you from the Little Mermaid!

{Also not clicking links from unknown entities}

[elusive]

I think we're mostly just hysterical posting in case we die at night and this is our last.

[elusive]

I'm sorry, Klingoncelt. It sucks. I hope to play a game with you at some point.

SilverWolf is being universally town read almost, why do you FOS her?

[elusive]

Whoever killed pisskop, <3

@ika, What happens if a player is murdered and healed, are they still able to use their action? What information do they get if any?

[elusive]

ABR caused waste for town so he should be lynched regardless.
However, we're forgetting the bs NakedJogger pulled and all the people on klingons wagon who prevented a scum lynch. So, I'm phone posting right now but tonight I will look through everyone and the wagons and day two we will lynch a damn scum.

Viking or anyone ISO pisskop for interaction analysis. Ty.

[elusive]

I meant to catch up with this today but too much going on elsewhere.

Just leaving a note for myself (ISO pisskop for interactions, ISO NakedJogger, ISO FA_Q2, look back at who else was on which wagons)

SW, what kind of music do you like? This makes me feel pumped up-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdLEz4OklXU

[elusive]

VOTE: NakedJogger

pisskop soft defended you and my stance on you caused him to vote me at one point (at least based on memory) so nice attempt to FOS me without having the research or anything to prove it.

However, posts of ISO and IA coming up.

Also, I don't know mechanics of large games nor setups nor blah blah blah special stuff and nor do I want to play Guess the Mod so instead I'm going to state that day two is also not the day to kill a claimed cop especially when a scum did die and at least one more day where cop is directed on a read to confirm is better then killing a cop. After having once been in a game where a claimed mason was killed over stupid reasons and slightly scummy play, nope.

Edit: SO at least I agree with NJ about the ABR push. We'll see what ISO, IA show but I do agree that the discussion centered around Ellie\VF\ABR is blah and taking away from actual work.

And just on scroll back, MathBlade I never know what you are doing or why and unless you are jester or wanting to pretend to be jester I just do not get it.

[elusive]

Because I adore MathBlade, that's why.

[elusive]

And the last game I was in her with she had the scum team pegged but because some of us including me couldn't follow, we lost but she had the entire team pegged 100%

[elusive]

GM, considering that NakedJogger was the counterwagon to now obviously town, what do you think?

[elusive]

ABR, I actually don't like Ellie. I don't like her or him from day one at all. I am not susceptible to that kind of buddying and it makes me want to vote her. However, the town wincon is to lynch scums not people who try to be slick. SO patienceness.

Ozgin, ABR making up stuff is annoying as I said and led to town wastage. So therefore, I am holding his words as the words of a raver. Maybe there's an iota of sense but its hidden behind idk raverness.

[elusive]

ABR, the things I'm better at is ignoring both obvious and subtle attempts at manipulations. If you were trying to convince me of something using logical and reasoned explanations that are based on in-game posts rather then blah blah would work better. Your supposed "special powers of insight" were off on day one and now on day two you're in the same place. So, no.

[elusive]

Ellie, can you clarify this site or off-site? If you've played extensively with me before you would know that unnecessary mystery about stuff like this does not go well with me.

[elusive]

Actually, when I thought you might be X or Y I thought of replacing out but then I doubted you would join an ika game.

[elusive]

You could ask ika and PM me about it, you know so I wasn't confuzzled as hell.

[elusive]

Okies, aren't you glad I wrote those fan fics? <3 I'm happy you're here and eventually I will be able to have an alt with *quirks* and not alt slip two seconds after making it.

My replace out fear was related to a particular person who said "ika or me" and I chose ika so here we are. No backsies on those kinds of nonsense.

I'm trying to reread this game now and will update today at some point. Pisskop interactions make FA_Q2 look back. I'm not sure about NakedJogger actually, he might be maniac town as I sort of thought at one point.

[elusive]

Ellie, You should still ask ika and like PM me and stuff

[elusive]

So ABR, you wish for attention. You're close to getting it now since you aren't reading carefully and both of your proposed lynch targets are No. Read carefully, ABR because that way leads to sadness.

Just ISO Ellie and see that its clear she's not scum, she figure out pisskop when most were giving him a free pass.

Re PMs in elsewhere land I was told by a Mod that with permission and with a clarity that the conversation would not be about the game a player could PM me and I could PM back. So therefore, I said ask the Mod because I think it depends on the Mod what they allow or not.

[elusive]

"Fall into an abyss," whispered Elusive to no one in particular.

[elusive]

Scum are my priority and will always be.

I don't have enough experience to figure out SKs but I do know that scum are more into finding the SK then town because they fear them.

I'm not sure who the SK is but <3,

Spoiler:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3XSkTRHyVI

Scum first. Scum first. Scum first.

And Ellie is generally a pleasant person. She doesn't do my style of pushing people towards the abyss so I don't expect that.

Why are you so convinced NJ is town? What about TSO? What about FA2? What about Shinobi? What about dragonspawn who's alive mostly because of people defending his town meta?

[elusive]

Most likely there are two scum factions plus an sk? Is that the general belief about the setup?

[elusive]

Ok, ISOing because there's no effing way I can reread the entire thread like I hoped. Somehow my scum reads are voting my other scum reads which doesn't quite make sense so just focusing on ISO.

NJ - >elusive, ellie, math, SW, Grib/GM, Kitz - what are your reads on this list? Why did you hammer Klingoncelt without any intent or anything?

boonskiies top suspects -> dragonspawn, elusive, ellie. His death could be a lucky mafia strike but he did claim in thread. Who knows him or has played enough with him to take his soft claim seriously? That is what I wonder first.

pisskop's hard defending of vikingfan is bizarre. He also defends FA and NJ. He hard or soft town reads Acryon, NJ, TSO, Aeronaut, Jared, MathBlade,
He hard or soft scum reads House, elusive, SilverWolf, Kitz, ABR, Klingoncelt, Ellie, OZgin,
He does state that klingon wagon isn't good and that seems like desperate town so its not cut and dry.

If VF doesn't die N2 then the VF issue should be revisited.

SilverWolf is lean town. Not all of this is scum but at I assume more then one scum on this wagon. Cheetory6?

"

Klingoncelt

: Aeronaut, TSO, SilverWolf, FA_Q2, vikingfan, Nobody Special, ABR, Cheetory6, Pisskop, Ozgin, Naked jogger "

Going to second, Shinobi on "What is this apathetic drivel that cheetory has been posting?"

VOTE: Cheetory

[elusive]

VF, you aren't being lynched toDay. Not because I'm 100% sure you're a cop although I lean thinking you are based on pisskop's hard defense of you (maybe that could be setup for your NK) but also because ABR is pushing it and he isn't in the clear himself.

VF, I am also surprised by the resistance to NJ"s wagon. I'd like to see him flip sooner then later.

[elusive]

I assume there is more then one scum. Why do you have better ideas?

[elusive]

TSO, who are your posts addressed to? Ellie is useful to town. Any real points you want to make or is caps lock all you can do? Since you have yet to make a rational case, guess which of the two of your posts look like those of an irate baboon?

GM, you're ignoring me? Did I ask you something? I'm wary of reading you either way so cloudy with a chance.

[elusive]

Yes darling like you couldn't keep your role straight. Lay off the sugar will you?

VF is an issue that resolves itself. He won't be able to fake claim on a constant basis and he isn't the only scum.

As for Ellie, not today. There are scummier people and the fact that you and others aren't looking there but stood idly by on the town wagon yesterday make me not give many apples.

[elusive]

That is if VF is scum and this isn't some scum tactic to get town to kill a PR. Which is not happening.

[elusive]

Why does it keep speaking to me like its making brilliant cases or something?

Does anyone have actual scum cases or reads?

[elusive]

What actual point doesn't make sense TSO or Cheetory? Point to it and I'll explain nice and slow. Oh and cheetory does being voted motivate you to vote?

Based on ISOing and looking at the votals:

Aeronaut is probably scum (oh and great question about alignment of Pisskop, you're really reading carefully and that almost seemed like a town slip except it was such BS since his role aka "Mafia" was mentioned in the death scene). Boo hoo. VOTE: Aeronaut

TSO you led or co-led a wagon on town yesterday over stupid reasons, no one cares what you think.

If any scum distancing was going on it was between pisskop and dragonspawn. Or are you not reading the effing ISO, cheetory?

Since I'm looking at everything ABR says about VF with a shaker of salt, why doesn't someone less "boy who cried wolf" explain what the mechanics argument is in like 2-3 sentences maximum? He's definitely not on a faction with pisskop so therefore that must mean that VF, if he isn't the cop which I still assume he is based on just the level of derpage, would mean you think there are two scum factions. I'm almost even okay with an ABR lynch over the other two.

Based on what I know of Ellie and her play, she is not scum. People piling on her are the scum or idiot town and the wagons that are being resisted are Much More Likely Scum.

This is not her scum game and I suggest you get off this fucking wagon before I stop being such a sweet little cupcake.

[elusive]

Wouldn't there be three kills then?


Also, Pisskop's role didn't specify a color or anything.

What was this about? It did specify a color (red) as well as alignment (mafia).

[elusive]

OH wow the more I look at cheetory6's post the more I see nonsense. Wow. Really? You have no fucking clue do you?

[elusive]

Why don't cheetory and areonaut and TSO and whoever else is on the thread explain NakedJogger's little nervous breakdown towards end of Day One, where he hammered Klingoncelt?

Explain it to me.

As for Ellie, she has a very good reputation on our home site. She also has a distinct differences between town and scum. In fact her town game is good enough that there was sometimes an expectation or fear of her being the first NK so that she couldn't lead town to victory. This is her "Don't kill me because I'm good at getting scum" game. So I bet you my {} that some scum are leading the train on her. Therefore, get off that train today and stop trying ACTIVELY TRYING TO KILL THE PERSON WHO POINTED OUT THE FIRST SCUM YESTERDAY.

In a newbie game town does scums job like self-vote. This is not a newbie game.

The MAFIA who killed BOONSKIIES, that dorky little llama, is someone most likely who knew him well in terms of his play. Who are those people? Can you name who knows Boon well enough to take his innocuous seeming comment as a soft claim?

Also to prevent more of the "in the realm of the idiotic," scum have no need to "SLIP INFO LIKE CRUMBING" in thread. They have a thing called Night Chat.

[elusive]

Ozgin, thanks for the explanation. I have been in games where you get, "Someone tried to murder you in the night, but you were saved by a benevolent soul" kind of messages so that alone doesn't tell me much and again ika is creative in his roles and such so I'm not sure what is or isn't in the realm of possibility. Killing a possible cop for what could just be derpage or the truth doesn't make sense to me.

TSO, I want town to pressure the heck out of NakedJogger. I amn't 100% sure on anyone yet and there are a couple of people who aren't even here or who I am townreading for now. I wonder about dragonspawn due to pisskop and his ISO. I wonder about a lot of people who are lurking. Oh and cheetory seems to be playing opportunistically, does he have any original thoughts or reads or is he just going to sheep the crowds. Also look at this place on the KC wagon?

Aeronaut, thanks for the clarification. What do you think of cheetory?

[elusive]

Actually, some of cheetory in ISO is decent. Cheetory, why aren't you pushing NJ today? Especially since pisskop was very resistant to it and you responded to him stating why you thought it was a good wagon? And your follow up on the FA issue? ABR states, without a damn reason, that FA and Shinobi and some others are town. You seem to scumread him so what are your thoughts on his reads?

[elusive]

Actually, some of cheetory in ISO is decent. Cheetory, why aren't you pushing NJ today? Especially since pisskop was very resistant to it and you responded to him stating why you thought it was a good wagon? And your follow up on the FA issue? ABR states, without a damn reason, that FA and Shinobi and some others are town. You seem to scumread him so what are your thoughts on his reads?

[elusive]

TSO,

Spoiler:

I don't use the term "fagboys" because I think it's rude but I have a lot of gay friends and we actually share many of the same interests so no need to be wonky.

Ozgin,

Spoiler:

Ellie and I know each other from another site. I wrote a fan fiction about her and some other people (yay MathBlade was in a fanfic too). Ellie is not the first or last person to hard defend me since I have a very clear town meta. Heck someone I only played one game with here did it too. Maybe one day you will too.

Also based on just my record I have never been lynched as town, except in one game where it was bastard and there were more 3rd parties and scum living then town. So scum have to NK me because as town I'm kind of relentless.

[elusive]

Cheetory, respond plz.

[elusive]

Point on the doll where the rudeness is?

[elusive]

If you mean aggro, then yes.

[elusive]

That was for the last post of yours I read today, I already corrected myself based on looking at your ISO above. Do you want a cookie? People who are lurkery hit all my wrong nerves and I haven't even entered actually rude mode yet.

[elusive]

Going to ignore the anti-game nature of that for now.

TSO, on to you then.

MathBlade is acting weird with the troll thing and playing very differently then acryon. However, she is right about your play.

[elusive]

Why would Ellie bus someone who was not on the radar and nor had a wagon on them? Why?

What benefit does scum have to bussing on of their own when the KC wagon was in full swing or the VF or DS wagon? It's illogical.

Unless you are stating that Ellie foresaw pisskop's death in some manner, there is no way that really makes sense. Town or perhaps at a distance SK makes sense but not scum.

[elusive]

It's too much of a reach and a danger to bus a fellow scum like that. Also that would assume she knows pisskop well enough but even based on the pisskop\dragonspawn interactions he was doing better then several people (including for example vikingfan and pisskop's hard defense of VF is partially why I think VF is not a priority since it seemed like pisskop was actually setting up to benefit from a VF town flip).

In fact, I'm still more interested in who would know Boonskiies enough to NK him because his death was a result of:
1) A very softclaim in thread that I didn't even see as a claim until he flipped. So most likely someone who knows his play saw it and figured him out.
2) His NK wasn't a result of the soft claim but rather who he was scum reading wrongly at the time. (Ellie, Elusive, Dragonspawn)

It's not like I'm 100% Ellie is town or not scum at least but her being an issue today when there are actual people to focus on is what is bothering me. It's like a repeat of yesterday where people took one KC foot in mouth and spun into ridiculous proportions and lynched town.

Wake, why don't you find out for yourself?

[elusive]

Ozgin,
Well, I already soft claimed in thread so why not look for it. She knows how I soft claim and its there for those who have the vision to see. I was hoping not to call attention to it since {} but go ahead, find it. Maybe someone will find it and put it in ALL CAPS in thread too just in case scum missed it but I doubt it since they got Boon.

Cheetory, look at the player list:

Spoiler:

acryon* Mathblade - I have never seen scum MathBlade and I've read her wrong as town so someone else needs to do so.
Kitz - Lean town
joker443* Naked jogger - I don't know an equal mess of maniac town but also super scummy
TheFireRises* Shinobi - Can't recall much from him so on the radar, needs to be prodded
croboss* Nobody special - Slot was null and NS needs to post something, reads, etc.
GGG* Pisskop - Dead scum
dragonspawn - Flailing town or in general flailing?
Klingoncelt - Dead town
SilverWolf - Lean town
elusive - That's me, town
Grib* Goodmorning - I can't read her and so someone who can needs to.
Wake88 - The nicer he is the more dangerous he is in his own words, start being mean then.
Aeronaut - Question mark? Started off more active and then kind of petered out.
House - Was early on the pisskop wagon AND like Ellie saw him as scum, has been AWOL since then
Ozgin - Changed his avatar and seems to try to be questioning and thinking
T S O - Scum
Cheetory6 - That's you, so you would know
Jared615* Ellie - Lean town
Boonskiies - Dead town PR
julianmolina13* ABR - I can't read him so someone who can needs to.
FA_Q2 - Very lurker and weird interactions with pisskop, needs to be prodded
vikingfan - Town derp or derp scum? Issue will resolve itself by day three if not earlier {}

[elusive]

Aeronaut, I tried yesterday to pressure NakedJogger and get a wagon on him (see my ISO). See his reaction to my pressure above and also yesterday. It's the bizarre reactions that is the reason I prefer other town or pressure him and pick it up. Also, it seems as if there is resistance to his wagon - a lot more of it then the easy wagons - which means I would like to see more clearly who town is in their pushes.

NakedJogger, my level of care about your reactions is naught. Also, that kind of statement that is meant to be someone Emotional Overreaction reads as fake to me. Normally I would needle but I wish to be keep a wide berth from you maniacal behavior which includes leaving voice recordings and hammering town when there still could have been an overturn.

You and Wake should form a club and get me on the gallows. With a cherry on top.

[elusive]

Aeronaut, I am scum hunting. I already tried to get a wagon on NakedJogger and it was resisted. I am seeming to make no headway there so I'm focusing on others. Since I see things he did as scummy I am wondering on the people who are ignoring it and why.

NakedJogger's responses to my scum hunting are weird. They are weird. Look at them they are weird. I would prefer someone else to scum hunt it. Or I guess I could try eventually but I think site rules might be broken or something so that's why trying not to respond.

Call it What you Want, but it is what it is

Spoiler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1prhCWO_518

Ozgin, why don't you do some work and spell it out for the entire thread. I'm sure you know how to ISO. And in that movie I thought, "Why isn't Jason Bateman in more movies and stuff because he's like so charming?" Otherwise it was a sucky movie.

[elusive]

effing alt slip again, kmn
Yes, I am unable to manage having two alts.

VOTE: NakedJogger

You don't get to throw shit like that and not get voted for it.

Answer the questions:
1. You were a weak counter wagon to Klingoncelt in that you didn't have enough votes to be pushed but you:
a. Hammered KC without warning of intent thereby cutting off any chance of people getting off the wagon
b. Seemed more worried about engaging me in bizarre play rather then actually scumhunting. In fact, you do know how to act like town since you are able to do it with other people so then why are you acting like a dbag towards me and now MathBlade? There's nothing role related that could require this.

2. What are your scum reads today and why?

3. Why shouldn't you be the lynch for today based on past and today play?

4. Why is there so much resistance to your wagon when generally that is a sign of scum?


Wake, that's nice.

[elusive]

More AtE gameplaying ^

Elusive and Mathblade just took massive dips on my town hierarchy.

I've been on his case since day one so no, he just pushed his luck as scum by trying to doubtcast me and MB because we are reading him right. Scum don't get to call people in game cheaters because their on the right track.

Also get my lynched. I'm a soft claimed town PR and I don't mess up my role PMs like you.

[elusive]

Other then one all my games on here seemed to have drama and stuff like this, I'm assuming some of it is real drama and some of it fake. People from the USMB site also seemed to be used to much more then this kind of drama.

[elusive]

vikingfan, can you paraphrase your role and what results you got as briefly as possible?

[elusive]

*results meaning night actions

[elusive]

ABR, ika actually linked to something Doctor related. What did you glean from that?

[elusive]

Forming a town block is a good thing.

It's like House or Wake commenting on SW and how town she is or isn't based on knowing her or forming a townblock since they have played enough together. You seem to be missing that part.

Also Wake, I'm sorry if I somehow offended you although I'm not sure what exactly it is that you're upset about. I can be abrasive as town, and actually am known to be a needler when I'm on a rool, but the level that NakedJogger has brought against me and then to MathBlade and also Kitz is not something that sits well with me at all and seems to have no purpose other then to create drama and stem discussion away from his scumminess.

The emotional reactions are overwrought to a degree that I don't understand unless NJ has some serious issues with females in particular which then need to be addressed by OOG things.

[elusive]

Also if I thought NJ was town I would ask for a Force Replace. I don't think he's town. I think he's scum who thought yelling at the women in thread would get him some dbag points.

[elusive]

ABR, if VF flips town cop are you willing to be the quick lynch next day? I don't mean like arbitrary "saying it for the sake of saying it," I mean really since you seem 100% sure and unless you were town cop or actually a PR you're insistence is to be believed why.

Also, your meta is that you are ruthless, manipulative and will say anything which is what I remember from the first game so pot kettle. And you tried to kill me town too.

[elusive]

No I'm not the doctor.

[elusive]

I wonder though about the orange part quoted in the doctor information.

Do players never really get a result if they are healed? Didn't mafiascum make Town of Salem and in there the player knows about the doctor?

NakedJogger, unfortunately I've never been the intelligent one of the group but I do admire intelligence. I don't deride people for their lack of things though because frankly that's just hubris. Your aggro seems to come out against me, Kitz, and MathBlade only over anyone else who may exhibit your disliked quality so therefore check yourself.

Instead of responding overwrought maybe you should just stick to the way you respond to TSO or Aeronaut.

1984 was a good book and scary because in some ways American media operates on that level. I liked Brave New World more though, possibly because of Shakespearian references. One person's dystopia is another person's utopia.

[elusive]

NakedJogger

1. You were a weak counter wagon to Klingoncelt in that you didn't have enough votes to be lynched but you hammered. Why?

2. What are your scum reads today and why?


[/quote]

Answer these please as if you were answering to Aeronaut or TSO, thanks.

Wake and Nobody Special,

not doctors being told but the person they healed.

VikingFan claimed cop. He claimed to be roleblocked by Pisskop who turned out to be the mafia roleblocker and was killed. He also claimed that he received a message about being healed. Does the player being healed or saved get a message?

[elusive]

ABR,



So the problem with being the boy who cried wolf is that I don't believe anything you say.

As for whoever, NO GM is not buddying me. We read each other very wrong elsewhere and elsewhen and are a bit more cautious now. Also no one can buddy me without my permission. If someone was buddying me in a way that didn't make sense (see ABR for example) I would call them out for it right then and there.

Ellie, the problem is that on this site you may not refer to other ongoing games like seriously on pain of Mod kill or Mod threats. So therefore I cannot explain why. However, knowing people's metas and being friends is considered suspicious on this site to a degree that makes me sad and also separate people into "would invite to hang out if they were in the area" and "unfortunately deprived of love."

NakedJogger, do you know why I find you difficult to read? I asked you very calmly to provide reads yesterday while you were not the main lynch wagon, with only a few votes on you, and instead you chose to act like a scum discombobulating. While I consider myself an emotional player, your play is either scum tripping over itself under pressure or town being extremely anti-town.

I also feel energized but I just rewatched Legally Blonde and it's one of the best movies of all time. Have faith in yourself, town

[elusive]

Ellie, are you scum?

I think not. It doesn't feel like Ellie scum. It feels like Ellie town or maybe distantly Ellie third party.

Plus, ABR boon was more suspicious of me I believe so that would mean then I am scum too, right?

[elusive]

Yes, let's have all of town out their roles while ABR fake claims over fake claims over fake claims.

[elusive]

Ellie, no unfortunately I'm not. I think it would be healthy for me to roll scum but even with the alt where I was hoping or even requested scum, I don't roll scum. I don't know it's kind of sad.

TSO, why is Ellie scum? In your own words.

[elusive]

TSO, why is Ellie scum. In your own words?

[elusive]

TSO, I have reason to believe that Ellie is town and not scum based on knowing her. I do not care about her revealing her role that I think she has as you may as well paint NK targets on everyone.

ABR investigating the same person that VF said?

Anyone in their right mind would defend a claimed cop. This site's mechanics don't follow our original site's mechanics and only people with much experience on here would know the difference.

If ABR was the cop why would he say that VF lied on day two and not on day one? Did you think there were two cops possible in a large normal?

In posts #694, #711, #744, #872, #893, #896, #1096, Rampage wants Boon dead but then abruptly in #1349 until he swerves to Ellie in agreement with Boonskiies. Also votes Klingon but later states he doesn't think Klingon is scummy.

No mention of Shinobi until day 2? Where is the breadcrumb?

NobodySpecial, are you asking me something or implying something?

[elusive]

ABR, why didn't you call out VF yesterday? Are two cops in a large normal possible?

[elusive]

If you knew VF was lying on day one, ABR why didn't you push his wagon then?

God, I wish House or Wake or even a dark horse would come and clear away the fires lit by ABR.

[elusive]

Also if you're a fucking Vanilla Townie, you only really have one job. Piss of the scum so much that they want to NK you instead of possible PRs. It's that simple. Get to it.

[elusive]

NS quite obviously saw my EFFING SOFT CLAIM in thread that I then denied due to ABR bringing attention to it and I'm not sure why TSO wants me dead tonight but okay keep bringing it up homie.

I MIGHT AS WELL USING ALL CAPS AND SCREAM FROM THE ROOFTOPS.

I'm not loud. Well I am but not Loud Loud. More Like Loud.

[elusive]

Quack, quack, quack meow. TSO if you get it you get it if you don't then that's fine.

[elusive]

OMG let's hypoclaim :p

[elusive]

Ktiz, if I was a day vig ABR would be dead by now. Also I never got to say it and might not next day but I think it's amazing that you self-taught English. I feel like I want to know more but post game...

It's possible I'm a Mall Cop or I have a special power, I choose a song and the scums have to dance to it all night long and therefore can't do there powers. It's really funny to watch.

TSO is funny, yay.