New York 180 (Endgame)

[elusive]

Why would Ellie bus someone who was not on the radar and nor had a wagon on them? Why?

What benefit does scum have to bussing on of their own when the KC wagon was in full swing or the VF or DS wagon? It's illogical.

Unless you are stating that Ellie foresaw pisskop's death in some manner, there is no way that really makes sense. Town or perhaps at a distance SK makes sense but not scum.

[FakedBlogger]

I've pretty much decided I will have to play here as an alt since people just say "Ignore MathBlade" and it's crept over from my home site at remarkable speed.

Can you imagine that you've said this in one way or another for at least 4 times already? I can't even begin to explain how profoundly nobody gives a shit. I'm usually not the one to talk for anyone but myself but seriously, nobody cares. 0.

As I have said on D1 and continually with associations on D2, VF and NJ are likely together. NJ wants the VF tunnel to stop but realizes it probably won't so throws his vote on it while trying to convince us not to vote it AT THE SAME TIME.

I'm telling you VF and NJ likely scum together.

Is that really what I want, because I thought I wanted you, ABR and some others to stop taking shits on the thread so people can actually read it and maybe, god forbid, hunt some scum. Which means this is the 3rd time you are LYING! STFU if you can't construct a case without lying about it. Find someone else to tunnel.

[Cheetory6]

Are you asking me if Elusive is worth rope or someone else? If so, probably like a 3?
I don't know if I understand your scale though lol..

Why would Ellie bus someone who was not on the radar and nor had a wagon on them? Why?

I think she thought that it seemed obvious that he was scum and that it would be worth tons of towncred to be the first to push him.

[elusive]

It's too much of a reach and a danger to bus a fellow scum like that. Also that would assume she knows pisskop well enough but even based on the pisskop\dragonspawn interactions he was doing better then several people (including for example vikingfan and pisskop's hard defense of VF is partially why I think VF is not a priority since it seemed like pisskop was actually setting up to benefit from a VF town flip).

In fact, I'm still more interested in who would know Boonskiies enough to NK him because his death was a result of:
1) A very softclaim in thread that I didn't even see as a claim until he flipped. So most likely someone who knows his play saw it and figured him out.
2) His NK wasn't a result of the soft claim but rather who he was scum reading wrongly at the time. (Ellie, Elusive, Dragonspawn)

It's not like I'm 100% Ellie is town or not scum at least but her being an issue today when there are actual people to focus on is what is bothering me. It's like a repeat of yesterday where people took one KC foot in mouth and spun into ridiculous proportions and lynched town.

Wake, why don't you find out for yourself?

[Ozgin]

Good God.

2500 posts.

I don't know where a good foothold to get back into the game would be.

Just read Twilight of Day 1 and Day 2 and anything that talks about the mechanics of roles or pms or the game setup, for the love of the gods just ignore it.

Ozgin,

Spoiler:

Ellie and I know each other from another site. I wrote a fan fiction about her and some other people (yay MathBlade was in a fanfic too). Ellie is not the first or last person to hard defend me since I have a very clear town meta. Heck someone I only played one game with here did it too. Maybe one day you will too.

Also based on just my record I have never been lynched as town, except in one game where it was bastard and there were more 3rd parties and scum living then town. So scum have to NK me because as town I'm kind of relentless.

But that shouldn't matter that you wrote a fanfic about them, what matters is how you play. And to boldly assert that you're a town (on Ellie's part) without any foundation or reasoning in this game is scummy. And even if she knows your meta well enough to say that you're town,

what does that have to do with the town's ability to lynch you?

She's making it out seem like it's impossible for you to get lynched, and even if she gets lynched it'll be impossible for you to get lynched, almost implying a PR or something.

Her weird hyper-defensive relationship with you is just that. Weird and hyper-defensive. I just want some reasoning as to why you're any more town than someone else, and why she can be so adamant about it? Why can't she provide evidence for her assertion?

And then there's the stuff about vf, I just can't get my focus off her right now.

[Cheetory6]

What benefit does scum have to bussing on of their own when the KC wagon was in full swing or the VF or DS wagon? It's illogical.

She also wasn't really only pushing pisskop. She was pushing NJ on the premise of piss being scum. It just seems like she was being too blatant with all of the connections she was making relating back to him. It feels too loud and intentional and comes across as being fake to me.

even based on the pisskop\dragonspawn interactions he was doing better then several people (including for example vikingfan and pisskop's hard defense of VF is partially why I think VF is not a priority since it seemed like pisskop was actually setting up to benefit from a VF town flip).

But I think that's exactly why she'd do it. What's the risk to take if people aren't going to listen when you're bussing? Get all the towncred later when people start paying more attention to piss and let all of the other lynches go forward.

Like, I get that she could just be town that got it on the mark D1, I just feel like her being scum and the manner in which she approached pushing for piss vs the manner in which she's approached pushing for anyone else since is vastly different in a way that makes me think those interactions were biased by information she has via her alignment and the best explanation for that is that she's scum.

[Cheetory6]

her being an issue today when there are actual people to focus on is what is bothering me

Who are the actual people to focus on?

[elusive]

Ozgin,
Well, I already soft claimed in thread so why not look for it. She knows how I soft claim and its there for those who have the vision to see. I was hoping not to call attention to it since {} but go ahead, find it. Maybe someone will find it and put it in ALL CAPS in thread too just in case scum missed it but I doubt it since they got Boon.

Cheetory, look at the player list:

Spoiler:

acryon* Mathblade - I have never seen scum MathBlade and I've read her wrong as town so someone else needs to do so.
Kitz - Lean town
joker443* Naked jogger - I don't know an equal mess of maniac town but also super scummy
TheFireRises* Shinobi - Can't recall much from him so on the radar, needs to be prodded
croboss* Nobody special - Slot was null and NS needs to post something, reads, etc.
GGG* Pisskop - Dead scum
dragonspawn - Flailing town or in general flailing?
Klingoncelt - Dead town
SilverWolf - Lean town
elusive - That's me, town
Grib* Goodmorning - I can't read her and so someone who can needs to.
Wake88 - The nicer he is the more dangerous he is in his own words, start being mean then.
Aeronaut - Question mark? Started off more active and then kind of petered out.
House - Was early on the pisskop wagon AND like Ellie saw him as scum, has been AWOL since then
Ozgin - Changed his avatar and seems to try to be questioning and thinking
T S O - Scum
Cheetory6 - That's you, so you would know
Jared615* Ellie - Lean town
Boonskiies - Dead town PR
julianmolina13* ABR - I can't read him so someone who can needs to.
FA_Q2 - Very lurker and weird interactions with pisskop, needs to be prodded
vikingfan - Town derp or derp scum? Issue will resolve itself by day three if not earlier {}

[MathBlade]

I've pretty much decided I will have to play here as an alt since people just say "Ignore MathBlade" and it's crept over from my home site at remarkable speed.

Can you imagine that you've said this in one way or another for at least 4 times already? I can't even begin to explain how profoundly nobody gives a shit. I'm usually not the one to talk for anyone but myself but seriously, nobody cares. 0.

As I have said on D1 and continually with associations on D2, VF and NJ are likely together. NJ wants the VF tunnel to stop but realizes it probably won't so throws his vote on it while trying to convince us not to vote it AT THE SAME TIME.

I'm telling you VF and NJ likely scum together.

Is that really what I want, because I thought I wanted you, ABR and some others to stop taking shits on the thread so people can actually read it and maybe, god forbid, hunt some scum. Which means this is the 3rd time you are LYING! STFU if you can't construct a case without lying about it. Find someone else to tunnel.

You're entire counter is that I am lying. :/

1) You voted viking fan while complaining the VF tunnel wasn't ending. Therefore not a lie. I will not find someone else as I go after my top scumspect. I also do not follow requests from my second scumspect to not poke their buddies. Deal with it.

[FakedBlogger]

Quote where I'm complaining about the VF tunnel not ending

[FakedBlogger]

@elusive if you call me maniac one more time I'll go apeshit on your ass.

[Aeronaut]

TSO, I want town to pressure the heck out of NakedJogger.

You want

town

to pressure him, or

you

want to pressure him? Because you're not voting him, and haven't been for awhile now.

Aeronaut, thanks for the clarification. What do you think of cheetory?

I think he's working his way into my lynch pool with that ATE he's trying to pull.

Then there is the scumslip he never follows up on and that is IT.

Scumslip?

The only games I've found of TSO are scum. In which he does the same shit. He can say he does the same shit as town but that doesn't make it true. If he's this unhelpful as town how does he convince anyone to be lynched without reasons.

I feel like you can't use this argument if you haven't also seen him as town.

Ozgin, Ellie and I know each other from another site. I wrote a fan fiction about her and some other people (yay MathBlade was in a fanfic too). Ellie is not the first or last person to hard defend me since I have a very clear town meta. Heck someone I only played one game with here did it too. Maybe one day you will too.

This means close to nothing. Elle was basically softing that your flip would conftown her, or at least that's what it looked like.

Why would Ellie bus someone who was not on the radar and nor had a wagon on them? Why?

Because Pisskop was unlikely to be lynched yesterday, so she figured she could pull off some distancing between them in case they both made it to late game.

Current Lynch Pool {ABR, Elle, NJ, VikingFan*}

*Would rather wait until tomorrow, to see if claim is legitimate.

[Nobody Special]

GM, you're ignoring me? Did I ask you something? I'm wary of reading you either way so cloudy with a chance.

No, just ignoring your slot in general. I mean, if you ask questions and shit I'll answer them, I just don't think I can read you so I'm not going to try. At least, not yet. I may have to if this game lasts and so do we.

Buddying noted.

Well, I've just decided to give VF one more night because I don't think it's fair that someone be lynched for poor circumstance.

You're one of them TouchyFeely LIBERALS who thinks everyone should get a trophy just for showing up, aren't you?

[elusive]

Aeronaut, I tried yesterday to pressure NakedJogger and get a wagon on him (see my ISO). See his reaction to my pressure above and also yesterday. It's the bizarre reactions that is the reason I prefer other town or pressure him and pick it up. Also, it seems as if there is resistance to his wagon - a lot more of it then the easy wagons - which means I would like to see more clearly who town is in their pushes.

NakedJogger, my level of care about your reactions is naught. Also, that kind of statement that is meant to be someone Emotional Overreaction reads as fake to me. Normally I would needle but I wish to be keep a wide berth from you maniacal behavior which includes leaving voice recordings and hammering town when there still could have been an overturn.

You and Wake should form a club and get me on the gallows. With a cherry on top.

[Aeronaut]

So you want other people to scum hunt for you?

Do you understand how bad that sounds?

[FakedBlogger]

Oh so your definition of maniacal behavior is leaving voice recordings. I thought was assuming some sort of intelligence but guess not. Oh and hammering someone who could be scum is also much more maniacal than waiting for an overturn on what I know for a fact to be town. Right. Carry on dummy

[Ozgin]

Ozgin,
Well, I already soft claimed in thread so why not look for it. She knows how I soft claim and its there for those who have the vision to see. I was hoping not to call attention to it since {} but go ahead, find it. Maybe someone will find it and put it in ALL CAPS in thread too just in case scum missed it but I doubt it since they got Boon.

If you really think that the scum is so good at reading softclaims, why don't you just come clean so we know that you're on our side? Or at least point me in some direction? I mean, I really don't get your point here. And what is {}?

@elusive if you call me maniac one more time I'll go apeshit on your ass.

[goodmorning]

roleblock + NK works with veterans only.

Does pisskop not count as one?

For the record: I plan to play this game in the manner I usually play as confTown: either sloppy and ridiculous or lurky and tunneling.

Why would you say this?

Because that's how I'm going to play it, and if anyone wants to whinge about how annoying it is I'd like to be able to say "I told you so."

Vote: ABR

I think.

TSO is bothering me again.

both town and cop, which can only be beneficial to the town.

Now I feel jaded.

That's a really optimistic view at best.

This game's pace is ridiculously fast and it's really noisy and there are a lot of really ridiculous claims and other bullshit going on.

TRUTH

I don't know where a good foothold to get back into the game would be.

As far as I can tell, there isn't one.

GM, you're ignoring me? Did I ask you something? I'm wary of reading you either way so cloudy with a chance.

No, just ignoring your slot in general. I mean, if you ask questions and shit I'll answer them, I just don't think I can read you so I'm not going to try. At least, not yet. I may have to if this game lasts and so do we.

Buddying noted.

Continued lack of content equally noted.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: viking

Fuck it, this is never going to stop.

@NakedJogger -- Done. Quoted as asked.

[SilverWolf]

Well, I've just decided to give VF one more night because I don't think it's fair that someone be lynched for poor circumstance.

You're one of them TouchyFeely LIBERALS who thinks everyone should get a trophy just for showing up, aren't you?

Hey, Don't knock TouchyFeely LIBERALS. That said I don't agree with him about Vikingfan, hence my vote is still there.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

To All:

I am waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind on this game and my V/LA officially ends tomorrow and I have a shit ton of work to do tomorrow so I may try to get on here tonight to post or it will be tomorrow night, maybe afternoon if I'm super lucky.

[vikingfan]

Dang, disappear for a day and the page explodes.

I can't WAIT until I flip town just to shut up ABR at this point. And I'm looking forward to a good "Bah! Told you so!" post too.

Ozgin, what exactly do you need? I already reported I am a Cop with the ability to investigate one player per night and will find out if they are protown or not. If something happens where I don't get a result, then the result is unknown. I also received a PM last night informing me my investigation on Shinobi came back as unknown and that I was attacked last night but was saved. Given that pisskop was a mafia RB, it's not a huge jump that he blocked me from my investigation. I have no idea what else you need.

ABR is just plain distracting the game right now to be honest. I need to do an ISO on pisskop and NJ and that will be coming up soon, and I'm still amazed that NJ is not coming under serious pressure for the scummy hammer yesterday. TSO is giving me townie vibes at present and while Ellie's defense of me is well-deserved, I'm not altogether sure she's not scum.

Think about it this way. Scum knows I'm town and will flip that way when I die probably tonight. It makes good sense to defend me so as to look more townie the next day and ellie's play as already noted has raised some definite eyebrows. but all that is for a future day.

Could you post a sentence or two about each player & your read on them please?

Using ika's player list and giving my gut feelings (I'm NOT doing an ISO on 17 players) as of page 100. I'm responding to stuff directed to me as I read now, easier not to miss stuff.
Playerlist:
acryon* Mathblade gives me the feeling of being irrational but protown.
Kitz Protown so far.
joker443 Naked jogger Scummy, especially the way people are dodging the whole scummy hammer yesterday without doing anything today. Gives me the vibe of scum not calling attention to their scum partner..
TheFireRises Shinobi protown at the moment.
croboss Nobody special ditto.
dragonspawn scum vibes on day one but has played better day two.
SilverWolf protown
elusive protown
Grib good morning. solid vibes so far from good morning, not so much from grib, will be watching this one.
Wake88 scummy vibes especially early on for not playing and not taking a position on the klingon wagon.
Aeronaut protown.
House Ozgin protown.
T S O Gives me protown vibes right now, what he is posting makes sense.
Cheetory6 scummy vibes, seems like he's posting enough to avoid being prodded but needs better content.
Jared615 Ellie gave me major scumreads day one but has played much better today so far, and her breadcrumbing mason role when she's not a mason with elusive just rubs me the wrong way.
julianmolina13 ABR everyone knows my feelings here already.
FA_Q2 protown.

[elusive]

Aeronaut, I am scum hunting. I already tried to get a wagon on NakedJogger and it was resisted. I am seeming to make no headway there so I'm focusing on others. Since I see things he did as scummy I am wondering on the people who are ignoring it and why.

NakedJogger's responses to my scum hunting are weird. They are weird. Look at them they are weird. I would prefer someone else to scum hunt it. Or I guess I could try eventually but I think site rules might be broken or something so that's why trying not to respond.

Call it What you Want, but it is what it is

Spoiler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1prhCWO_518

Ozgin, why don't you do some work and spell it out for the entire thread. I'm sure you know how to ISO. And in that movie I thought, "Why isn't Jason Bateman in more movies and stuff because he's like so charming?" Otherwise it was a sucky movie.

[vikingfan]

Mathblade makes sense to me, TSO. I don't always agree with her, but she makes sense.

[Ozgin]

Well, I've just decided to give VF one more night because I don't think it's fair that someone be lynched for poor circumstance.

You're one of them TouchyFeely LIBERALS who thinks everyone should get a trophy just for showing up, aren't you?

Yes, actually I kind of am. Bite me.

both town and cop, which can only be beneficial to the town.

Now I feel jaded.

That's a really optimistic view at best.

What's "really optimistic" about it?

In my opinion, every member of town is inherently valuable to the town in terms of staying alive. After all, the town wins when the town survives.
The cop makes a town even more useful, because the cop can give us reports on players, creating conftowns and confscums. If the cop can live past D3, a lot of potentially great information can come out it.

Like I said, there is nothing bad about having a living town cop. If you can tell me what's bad about that, then I'll be floored.

Even if vikingfan isn't great at reading people or pressuring people or voting on the right wagon, as long as he stays alive and gives us his reports on players, he can be extremely helpful to us.

Ozgin, why don't you do some work and spell it out for the entire thread. I'm sure you know how to ISO. And in that movie I thought, "Why isn't Jason Bateman in more movies and stuff because he's like so charming?" Otherwise it was a sucky movie.

I'm trying to, but I'm a little dull sometimes. Give me time.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

My quotes might be off kilter because formatting is hard, but I think that's accurate.

[vikingfan]

Okay. It's just, do you have any strong reads? You're waffling all over the issue of which of me/VF is scum. If he answers one question from you, you will vote me. Since VF and I are both town, I'd prefer for you to actually commit one way or another.

Well, I've just decided to give VF one more night because I don't think it's fair that someone be lynched for poor circumstance. That being said, I still don't entirely buy into his claim, but read below and you'll hear more on that from me.

As for you, this makes you my strongest scumread, followed by a lean scumread on NJ. I'm going to ISO you and NJ and try to figure it all out. What is your read of NJ?

---------------------------------------------------

Ozgin, what exactly do you need? I already reported I am a Cop with the ability to investigate one player per night and will find out if they are protown or not. If something happens where I don't get a result, then the result is unknown. I also received a PM last night informing me my investigation on Shinobi came back as unknown and that I was attacked last night but was saved. Given that pisskop was a mafia RB, it's not a huge jump that he blocked me from my investigation. I have no idea what else you need.

Okay, are you going to be able to use your ability again tonight? If so, now that the mafia roleblock is dead, assuming you survive and don't get roleblocked, please please please for the love of god get a report back to us D3. Then I'll have no doubts about you, and shit, I'd write you a formal apology.

But until then, I'm okay with not voting for you and going with this elusive quote:

If VF doesn't die N2 then the VF issue should be revisited.

---------------------------------------------------

No, it's not WIFOM, it's a deliberate attempt to point out that

there are no Scum motivations

for pointing out that she saw the Doc crumb.

Could it have been a Freudian slip? Imagine this: At night, a player is reading the thread looking for who to nk. That player finds some profoundly awesome piece of evidence that somehow slipped under everyone's radar. The next day, when the person who was nk'd was revealed to be something awesome (like Boon's doctor PR), everyone is kinda getting ready to move on, but the player who found the evidence gets a little egotistical. They want people to realize how cool they are for discovering this awesome, barely noticeable piece of evidence, so they make the error of pointing it out. It's as if they were to say, "Man that NK was a great job on the scum team, they must be pretty damn smart! I bet they're awesome players!" And then just sits there and smiles as they stroke their own ego.

I don't actually think that's the case, but I thought it interesting enough to bring up.

---------------------------------------------------

Sorry it took me another day and a half or however long it's been to post, RL is hard. I'm back for the weekend though, at least until tonight.

Yes, I can make an investigation every night until I'm dead. None of this non-consecutive stuff.