SMITE Role Madness Mafia (OVER AT LAST!)

[Solar Wind]

hi guys

/confirm

[Solar Wind]

/confirm. Holy fuck we drew town. FT, how about you?

[Solar Wind]

/confirm. Holy fuck we drew town. FT, how about you?

We didn't, not that you cared anyways.
It's fine, I didn't really want to play with you anyways

I cared. :/

[Solar Wind]

/confirm. Holy fuck we drew town. FT, how about you?

We didn't, not that you cared anyways.
It's fine, I didn't really want to play with you anyways

Well if you didn't, I'll find out soon enough now I have experience with not only yours but Tammy's scumgame as well.

Are you quaking in your boots at having to deal with me/Ffery hydra?

[Solar Wind]

Ffery says Post 14 was Tammy. I'm messing up hydra heads already!

[Solar Wind]

But I was just saying in our hydra PT that if Imperium is town, they'll make their alignment apparent really quickly so ball's in your court.

[Solar Wind]

Well, you can reciprocate my love for you by being really, really obvtown and easy to read like I am. (I'm assuming this is Nacho pretending to be Tammy?)

[Solar Wind]

/confirm. Holy fuck we drew town. FT, how about you?

We didn't, not that you cared anyways.
It's fine, I didn't really want to play with you anyways

I cared. :/

[Solar Wind]

@ Nacho, I cared too. I have odd ways of expressing my caring and you of all people should know that.

@ FT, found any scum so far?

[Solar Wind]

Please share.

[Solar Wind]

That's what I thought you'd say. Nacho sounds stilted although that's more him pretending to be Tammy. I don't have a read yet. Why do

you

think they are scum?

[Solar Wind]

Agree on Bitmap. It is more that he didn't say anything about anything that happened in the game. I think Post 25 is a decent post.

[Solar Wind]

What do you think of T S O's posts so far? (@ FT)

[Solar Wind]

I think Nacho is kinda into Ffery. Whether Tammy's into me is something I'll find out when she shows up.

Pedit: I don't like Xombie. Gut.

[Solar Wind]

Heheh that's what you thought before Fantasy Camp. >_>

I don't know if Nacho or I are ones to quake in our boots but I think if we did draw scum, we'd see this post, look nod on gchat and proclaim "Challenge Accepted"

Are you quaking in your boots having to deal with a me/nacho hydra?

Though Nacho is a horrible horrible troll who is a not nice hydra partner. I was telling him last night how much I hoped we'd draw town because I just don't have the energy to play scum right now, and what do I come home to? A log of him apologizing that we drew scum, who our partners were and what our role was. Fucker. Give him a virtual kick. My heart dropped with disappointment.

I was on edge about drawing scum since the point we signed up to the point we received our role PM because I didn't want to disappoint Ffery by causing our slot to get lynched early but I was so fucking elated when we saw our role PM.

[Solar Wind]

I don't really care either way. I don't want to bother with it and just focus on scumhunting but I don't see the harm if everyone would rather do it.

[Solar Wind]

btw i think solar wind and ft are town

I think FT is probably town. A little early to tell for sure. Hoping you are town as well.

[Solar Wind]

Not sure. I don't feel the townvibes that I'm hoping you and Tammy would give off if you are town yet. There's one other thing that bugged me but I'm going to hold on to it for now and discuss with Ffery. In the meantime, I want to see obvtown Nacho and obvtown Tammy.

[Solar Wind]

Your posts concern me as well.

[Solar Wind]

Why do you think it is apparent you are town so far?

[Solar Wind]

Am I the only one who's not concerned? I didn't come into the game expecting to nail a read on Imperium down during confirmation stage. If you're town I want to figure it out quickly, though because I'd like to finally steamroll scum with you, Tammy.

[Solar Wind]

Why haven't either of you posted in the neighborhood yet?

I did. As soon as I saw our role PM.

[Solar Wind]

You reached out to Ffery in the post you claim I should have responded to. I assumed she would respond when she shows up.

I don't particularly see any point in posting in the neighborhood at this moment. We don't know if there's scum in there and there are, we'd be hiding our interactions from the rest of the town but not the scum.

And Tammy, I don't get what you are jumping down my throat about. You opened up with a similar post to what you did in Fantasy Camp (Empire trolled me that we drew scum) and then proceeded to reach out to Ffery which I would expect regardless of alignment although more likely town. And I think it is far more obvious that we are town than you are so don't give me that "town is dripping from my posts" stuff.

And I share Ffery's sentiment. If you are town, I would like to figure it out quickly.

[Solar Wind]

ffery was here first.

[Solar Wind]

seriously there has to be room for the buttfuck somewhere else

This is true love. Regardless of alignments. We will lynch each other with tears in our eyes and rents in our souls should it come to that.

Removed the double quote. I assume you only meant to quote that once?

[Solar Wind]

I'm going to be over here tapping my foot and checking my watch while you guys sort each other.

[Solar Wind]

@ Tammy, that's fine. It explains why you are concerned. My play here has been nothing like the Marathon game. I don't think our conversation feels very productive right now so I'd rather we drop this. Our alignment will be abundantly obvious as the day goes on and we scumhunt as normal. I think that yours will be too. Fantasy Camp aside, I had a very strong townread on you in FFX and I was looking to see similar vibes here. I'm glad you want to work with us if we're town. I do too. Posts like 73 and saying that we have a high probability of being scum aren't helping with that and the more we get irritated with each other, the more I'm going to start hating the game. So let's step back for a while and regroup when we have more content in the thread.

[Solar Wind]

What made her change her mind and why did she stop posting?

[Solar Wind]

I couldn't care less who is first and who is last. I want to be right however long it takes to get that read.

[Solar Wind]

Your original reason was that I ignored your reach out + we didn't post in thread. We had posted in thread but I thought that was a more minor reason than the former.

[Solar Wind]

Okay. You can be maybe-town for now. Hopefully that strengthens with time. (Pedit: That was at Tammy).

[Solar Wind]

/confirm. Holy fuck we drew town. FT, how about you?

That's the only thing you thought comment-worthy in the whole thread to that point?

[Solar Wind]

Hi Rach!

- f

[Solar Wind]

Want to hear more from AngryPidgeon too.

[Solar Wind]

I think there is a fair bit of posturing between the hydrae atm. We have not even begun the game yet?

How much effort during the confirmation stage is OK in your opinion?

[Solar Wind]

Meh. Xombie's the only one who piqued my radar.

This lines up with our thoughts so far.

[Solar Wind]

House could be town. Like Ffery said, we were concerned about Xombie but I'd like to hear Ooba's reasoning for his read.

[Solar Wind]

For House or Xombie?

[Solar Wind]

For Xombie, my feeling is that he was resisting rather than facilitating progress of the game. People can get reads in confirmation stage and his Post 38 felt like he didn't like that there was a lot of content rather than seizing the opportunity to get reads. Now this can be a playstyle tell and a lot of people did similar things to that later and some people are not as aggressive as others in developing reads. But combine that with Post 41 which I really, really hated. While I liked FT's attack on Bitmap, Xombie's "

One too many towns for that song, I think. Overcompensating?

" felt fake on a gut level. I especially didn't like the "

overcompensating

" as it a) felt like a stretch to make Bitmap look scummy, and b) like he was looking for validation of that read by asking it as a question rather than directly attacking Bitmap. Plus the reasoning was super weak in a scummy way even for page 2. FT's attack on Bitmap made much more sense. Xombie's attack boiled down to having too many towns in his post. Then he joking read on T S O for saying "hi" and the "town would add punctuation" in Post 45 and Post 54 felt pretty weak. If he was town stretching for content early game, he'd have commented on something that was actually substantial.

What's your read on him?

[Solar Wind]

I'm not sure about Xombie. I agree that 41 feels fake but it didn't feel scummy fake. I also didn't think 45 was a joke; it looks like an impulsive in-the-moment response to 40 and 44, which is towny. The only thing bothering me is the punctuation bit in 54.

It had to be a joke considering he said T S O's "hi was sketch because town would add punctuation." I'm talking about both posts combined, i.e. he justifies 45 with 54. Why is it town specifically?

[Solar Wind]

Okay. What do you mean Post 41 feels fake but not scummy fake?

[Solar Wind]

How exactly? That we were talking about Xombie and he hopped on just like he said Xombie did for Bitmap?

Ooba's thoughts mirrored mine obviously so I liked that. I have to check but the only person who said anything about Xombie by that point was me.

I don't know if Xombie was looking at other people's suspicion before his post about Bitmap though as Ooba claimed. It seems he was just catching up and remarked on that post.

[Solar Wind]

I think town would have added punctuation!

Why?

This is your hard hitting question? I don't see it that way. But I think Ooba makes it fairly obvious when he's town so it'll be apparent with more posts.

[Solar Wind]

@ Farside, thoughts on Bitmap, Xombie, and T S O? And what I posted so far?

[Solar Wind]

Solar wind: do you know brantz well?

BRantz is correct, I've modded a couple games he played.

I noticed what you commented on, though I was in the thick of things with nachotammy. He doesn't concern me at this time, and I feel a little bad for not really acknowledging it.

BRantz what do you make of things? Do you see anything alignment indicative in our back and forth with Imperium? In anything else so far?

[Solar Wind]

Metal Sonic, why haven't you tried to sort Imperium or us if you feel we're such a threat? Also explain your quick townread on Imperium. I like the Brantz post but I want to see your reasoning for that as well.

[Solar Wind]

ok!


it appears that the neighborhood mechanic is useless and WIFOM friendly

i want to ignore it

What do you think about Vezok's question?

[Solar Wind]

Nope!

Have you read our posts of dripping towniness, I don't think you have if you're asking me that question.

Also this hydra has never drawn scum, we are pure like the snow piled outside our windows!

[Solar Wind]

hello solar wind are you scum

What do you expect to learn from this question?

[Solar Wind]

i think you are f16

your tone is fishy

i think you are scum

VOTE: solar wind

If you're talking about the vezok question that wasn't F-16. That was me.

Most players actually ask my hydra who made a particular post before voting us.

[Solar Wind]

I think he's talking about my Post 166 which I'd like an actual answer to btw.

[Solar Wind]

i think you need to be daycopped

i will daycop you

Please do! Also, you didn't answer either of my questions.

[Solar Wind]

The first two were f-16. The 3rd was me.

[Solar Wind]

as i thought.


f 16 is scummy and here u go a nice vote park

when i get a town result returned maybe i'll unvote

I have it on reasonably good authority that f-16 is much better at towning it up than I am, so the source of your scumread raises my eyebrow ever so slightly.

[Solar Wind]

Also, kindly answer my questions.

[Solar Wind]

Also, kindly answer my questions.

[Solar Wind]

@ FT, I like Brantz wanting to scumread everyone who said they aren't going to read any of the discussion from the confirmation stage. Me and Ffery were discussing it for a bit until we gave up and decided it was a null tell because there were too many people who were doing that and they can't all be scum.

[Solar Wind]

Important stuff: Should we claim our neighbourhoods now or keep them hidden until later?

i think we should out all the neighborhoods

So do I, though there could be potential downsides.

[Solar Wind]

hello solar wind are you scum

What do you expect to learn from this question?

learn your alignment

Has this ever worked for you?

[Solar Wind]

What downsides do you foresee? I think outing the hoods is fine as well.

Some pantheons may be particularly vulnerable or particularly immune to some actions/abilities.

The one game I've played where something like that was part of the game mechanic, it was somewhat telegraphed by the way the role PMs were worded. I didn't notice anything quite like that in my role PM, but I'm not a genius at gamebreaking.

[Solar Wind]

hello solar wind are you scum

What do you expect to learn from this question?

learn your alignment

Has this ever worked for you?

yes

I seriously doubt it will ever work for you when directed at me.

Quote fixed

[Solar Wind]

You and Ffery should hydra for my upcoming game which is currently in design stage.

[Solar Wind]

thats why i ask the mod instead

You have no idea how much I hate being conftown.

[Solar Wind]

thats why i ask the mod instead

You have no idea how much I hate being conftown.

i dont. why?

It blunts my scumhunting/townhunting because I read to a large extent based on how people react to me/my actions and stances. And reactions change a lot when I'm confown.

Also, I die early-ish usually.

[Solar Wind]

Some pantheons may be particularly vulnerable or particularly immune to some actions/abilities.

does your role pm suggest such a mechanic?

What downsides do you foresee? I think outing the hoods is fine as well.

Some pantheons may be particularly vulnerable or particularly immune to some actions/abilities.

The one game I've played where something like that was part of the game mechanic, it was somewhat telegraphed by the way the role PMs were worded.

I didn't notice anything quite like that in my role PM, but I'm not a genius at gamebreaking.

reading is tech.

[Solar Wind]

1. Angrypidgeon
2. Metal Sonic
3. Dcane
4. BRantz
5. Theaceofspade
6. Beastcharizard
7. -Blonde-
8. TiphaineDeath
9. Ooba
10. ZZZX
11. PeregrineV
12. Farside22
13. Solar Wind (F-16_Fighting_Falcon and fferyllt)
14. FourTrouble
15. Flames682
16. Imperium (Tammy and Nacho)
17. RachMarie
18. The Mask
19. Ankamius
20. T S O
21. House
22. vezokpiraka
23. Bitmap
24. Xombie
25. VysePresident


this doesnt divide by 3

My pantheon has 4 players!

[Solar Wind]

1. Angrypidgeon
2. Metal Sonic
3. Dcane
4. BRantz
5. Theaceofspade
6. Beastcharizard
7. -Blonde-
8. TiphaineDeath
9. Ooba
10. ZZZX
11. PeregrineV
12. Farside22
13. Solar Wind (F-16_Fighting_Falcon and fferyllt)
14. FourTrouble
15. Flames682
16. Imperium (Tammy and Nacho)
17. RachMarie
18. The Mask
19. Ankamius
20. T S O
21. House
22. vezokpiraka
23. Bitmap
24. Xombie
25. VysePresident


this doesnt divide by 3

My pantheon has 4 players!

Liar!

4 slots! six players!

[Solar Wind]

FourTrouble, Farside, Ooba, Brantz, House and Rach are likely town. Discuss.

The list I posted in our hydra PT also included Imperium but townreading Tammy is town means it is harder to mess around with her and I wanted to do it a little longer as telling her about her towniness is boring - she hears it every game nonstop.

[Solar Wind]

(Between FT and Farside with regard to read strength).

[Solar Wind]

FT, Was there something you thought was scummy about Brantz or you just don't have a read yet?

Also,

Metal Sonic

, explain your townread on Imperium.

[Solar Wind]

House and Rach

why?

and i can tell you are f16

you think vengeful-scum house would claim vengeful in his first post?

Rach is mostly my read (ffery) and I'd like to hold on to the specific reasons for a bit because it's tentative and I'm hoping to firm it up one way or another.

[Solar Wind]

231 feels town.

He said Tammy can town up even as scum. This comes after claiming that Imperium are scary as scum. So, I want that quick and easy Imperium townread explained.

[Solar Wind]

@ Metal Sonic,

FT, Was there something you thought was scummy about Brantz or you just don't have a read yet?

Also,

Metal Sonic

, explain your townread on Imperium.

[Solar Wind]

@ FT, Ffery has Metal as town. I'm coming around to it based on how much more pro-active his townhunting is compared to the scum baseline I have for him. You are probably right about the paranoia point. Which games of his did you skim?

[Solar Wind]

Metal Sonic appeased me.

I'm getting paranoid.

I'm leaning town on him though.

[Solar Wind]

AP, please tell me you are kidding and not that you are scum again ready to mudsling into oblivion.

[Solar Wind]

Nah, we need votes on Ankamius. Even assuming 119 is okay (it's not), there's still been lots of stuff to talk about since the game "start," so the RVS vote, lack of scumhunting, and fluffy commentary is by far the worst, scummiest thing here.

Agree about the RVS vote and lack of scumhunting. Not sure if it is his playstyle to complain about a large number of posts in general. I'm waiting to see how he catches up.

[Solar Wind]

Give me something specific to look at and I'll respond. Otherwise, I'm waiting until something jumps out at me.

What do you think of FT's push on you? What are your reads so far?

[Solar Wind]

Tammy, is it bad of me to feel sorry for you getting jealous of everyone townreading us that you really, really want to be us - the universal townread, that I just want to give you a warm hug and say "

It's okay lil sis. I see how town you are.

"

[Solar Wind]

Bitmap feels town in the neighborhood and Ankamius feels town based on latest posts. They are both weak reads. I may elaborate tomorrow but I'm about to crash now.

[Solar Wind]

I think the perspective is different if he was referring to a song. Going to wait for the rest of Xombie's catchup.

[Solar Wind]

I wasn't thinking about the song at all. I thought Xombie was stretching to develop a scumread but now it feels like he's joking so my initial suspicion doesn't hold.

[Solar Wind]

@ Tammy, why did you not comment on my townreads of Ankamius and Bitmap?

[Solar Wind]

@ Tammy, why did you not comment on my townreads of Ankamius and Bitmap?

I don't know how I feel about the ankamius one and wanted to see more from him.

I don't have a problem with the bitmap one and there's a post she made that I agree makes her more likely town, but I think it's obvious I agree with that read from my shift in focus.

Okay. I felt that it would be something you would comment on and you in general hadn't commented on most of my recent posts in the neighborhood.

[Solar Wind]

VOTE: Metal Sonic

Is this because you think he's scum faking a guilty on you?

[Solar Wind]

Who do you think scum-Metal Sonic would fake a guilty on you with the intention to get you lynched? He'll die right after.

[Solar Wind]

I was referring to my two townreads and telling you that I wanted Nacho's thoughts on AP when you get ahold of him. I can see you not actually commenting on my reads but I intuitively expected that you would comment on them, agree or disagree with them and I wondered you didn't. It is not something I'm particularly worried about though on the whole.

[Solar Wind]

I know you are still catching up so I'll put it here before I head off to bed. When you are done, I want an answer to my question and also reads from you on as many players as you have reads on.

Pedit: I don't get your thought progression here. What did you initially think upon seeing the daycop claim? What went through your mind? When did you decide that Metal was faking his investigation? When did you decide that he was scum for it. And if you "said as much," why did you vote him as opposed to assume that it was a reaction test regardless of what his alignment is?

[Solar Wind]

(Between FT and Farside with regard to read strength).

Your read strength is weird. Your reads are not.

How so? The only thing I'd change in a mine-only reads list is the strength of the FT read. I wouldn't be able to town FT that strongly so far but I have a lot less experience playing with him.

[Solar Wind]

I think the perspective is different if he was referring to a song. Going to wait for the rest of Xombie's catchup.

Bitmap was definitely referencing the song. I thought Xombie didn't get it and that his interaction was really awkward/forced, but ya. Not sure if you are feeling the same thing or not here? ^

If Xombie didn't get it, why would he call it a song...?

I recognized the song in bitmap's post and I thought Xombie got it. The thing that bugged me about his confirmation phase posts was that he was picking at invisible nits (invisible as far as alignment indicativeness goes) when there was actual content to interact with.

Which may be a factor of playstyle or experience level.

His reaction to metal sonic's gambit adds some weight to that possibility. Assuming that scum would trade a one-for-one with an unknown player on day 1 strikes me as pretty naive.

[Solar Wind]

FourTrouble, Farside, Ooba, Brantz, House and Rach are likely town. Discuss.

The list I posted in our hydra PT also included Imperium but townreading Tammy is town means it is harder to mess around with her and I wanted to do it a little longer as telling her about her towniness is boring - she hears it every game nonstop.

FT, House, Rach, farside, ooba, brantz made more sense to me at that time. Ooba stronger than that now, but not then.

I don't know about f-16, but ooba strongly reminded me of the way in FFX he was posting what I was thinking so many times. In isolation (which is all I've got at the moment) I take that as a weak to moderate town indicator.

[Solar Wind]

I think the perspective is different if he was referring to a song. Going to wait for the rest of Xombie's catchup.

Bitmap was definitely referencing the song. I thought Xombie didn't get it and that his interaction was really awkward/forced, but ya. Not sure if you are feeling the same thing or not here? ^

If Xombie didn't get it, why would he call it a song...?

I recognized the song in bitmap's post and I thought Xombie got it. The thing that bugged me about his confirmation phase posts was that he was picking at invisible nits (invisible as far as alignment indicativeness goes) when there was actual content to interact with.

Which may be a factor of playstyle or experience level.

His reaction to metal sonic's gambit adds some weight to that possibility. Assuming that scum would trade a one-for-one with an unknown player on day 1 strikes me as pretty naive.

If he really thought it that strongly I think he would have voted MS right away.

I wouldn't have.

[Solar Wind]

I wouldn't have.

Why wouldn't you?

My first reaction would have been "gambit!". Next stop would be wondering about grey-area role modifiers that aren't normal but aren't necessarily bastard either. Just about the last thing I would think is that scum-MS would want to 1v1 me on day 1. Someone fake-guiltied me a year or so ago and didn't reveal the gambit until after I was mislynched, though. His reasoning was that my reaction to the gambit wasn't a town-reaction because I didn't go balls to the wall 1v1 and try to get him lynched. I sat down and tried to solve the game for the rest of the game day instead.

Xombie's visible trajectory from the guilty claim doesn't follow mine, but we're different players with different styles and different experience levels. There are tiny anomalous bumps on his reaction, which leave me kinda meh, but I don't think he's the scummiest scum that ever scummed atm.

[Solar Wind]

(Between FT and Farside with regard to read strength).

Your read strength is weird. Your reads are not.

What do you make of the fact that you think my read strength is weird?

[Solar Wind]

Stop making me second guess my read. It took long enough to develop that until Tammy went down a complete paranoid spiral and I realized that it is highly unlikely you guys are scum.

[Solar Wind]

Solar, can you guys explain your townread on Ankamius?

So, on Ankamius. I see what you are saying about his early posting, RVS voting, not catching up and such. I can see lazy-town potentially doing that though. I also dislike that he calls the entire game noise BUT it is something I can plausibly see town doing if they have no clue how to read the interactions that developed so far and Ank is someone I would put in that category. He did develop and light scum on Imperium based on interactions and a null read on you in Post 313 and it gave me a distinguishing between attacks on him and trying to sort through the mess vibe. Actually, the more I reread his ISO, I have less and less reasons to think he's town. I had a gut read last night based on how he was interacting with players but reading it in ISO now, it doesn't look as good as I thought. So, I need a lot more from him.

[Solar Wind]

FourTrouble, Farside, Ooba, Brantz, House and Rach are likely town. Discuss.

The list I posted in our hydra PT also included Imperium but townreading Tammy is town means it is harder to mess around with her and I wanted to do it a little longer as telling her about her towniness is boring - she hears it every game nonstop.

FT, House, Rach, farside, ooba, brantz made more sense to me at that time. Ooba stronger than that now, but not then.

What are your reasons for thinking Rach and House are stronger townreads than Farside? Is there anyone else that you are reading as town who I haven't mentioned yet besides Bitmap and Metal Sonic?

[Solar Wind]

Nah, we need votes on Ankamius. Even assuming 119 is okay (it's not), there's still been lots of stuff to talk about since the game "start," so the RVS vote, lack of scumhunting, and fluffy commentary is by far the worst, scummiest thing here.

I disagreed. Implied scum motivation for complaining about lack of scumhunting is that he doesn't have to do anything, which would be scum motivation because he doesn't have to post, but the players with the biggest voice in the game are the ones doing all the posting and he's making enemies of us as a result, which accomplishes the opposite of what he would have set out to do as scum.

I'm not following. I did think that Ank scumreading you guys was less likely to come from scum in general but he seems so disengaged from the game I'm not sure he even knows who the difficult lynches are. Have you played with Ank before? Also, you are presenting a thought process that would be pretty elaborate for him. I could potentially see scum showing up, feeling too lazy to read, and complaining about the mass of content. Perhaps he thought complaining about the "spam" would endear him to the rest of the players who haven't caught up. He isn't you and may not understand that manipulating influential voices is important. His scum strategy could potentially be to simply avoid a lynch and he may think that getting null-town read by the majority is sufficient to do that. Can you elaborate on this read more?

[Solar Wind]

I wouldn't have.

Why wouldn't you?

My first reaction would have been "gambit!". Next stop would be wondering about grey-area role modifiers that aren't normal but aren't necessarily bastard either. Just about the last thing I would think is that scum-MS would want to 1v1 me on day 1. Someone fake-guiltied me a year or so ago and didn't reveal the gambit until after I was mislynched, though. His reasoning was that my reaction to the gambit wasn't a town-reaction because I didn't go balls to the wall 1v1 and try to get him lynched. I sat down and tried to solve the game for the rest of the game day instead.

Xombie's visible trajectory from the guilty claim doesn't follow mine, but we're different players with different styles and different experience levels. There are tiny anomalous bumps on his reaction, which leave me kinda meh, but I don't think he's the scummiest scum that ever scummed atm.

Really? My reaction would of been

"fite me son, I 1v1 you scumbag. I'm town and ur scum. If I get lynched then I declare you to be tomorrow's lynch."

Initially I had Xombie as null because of the whole song reference thing but his "lack" of reaction towards MS kind of rubs me the wrong way.

There's a horrible iso that ends with me screaming at the player who faked a guilty and finally admitted it in twilight after I was hammered. I thought he was a PR (and VI), which was why I didn't 1v1, much as I wanted to. He was mislynched in LYLO the next day. Which is what I said was going to happen.

I'm seeing a confused and chaotic reaction, which didn't take and hold to a direction. It could be scummy. Doesn't scream scum to me though.

[Solar Wind]

I had a feeling that wasn't you posting.

Your slot's more town then.

Although this feels town in the typical "Nacho should see me as town or else he's scum way."

[Solar Wind]

TD feels like he saw all the discussion about how attacking strong players is town and decided to go full bore at it. I can buy his scumread based on my last couple of posts. I can maybe buy he has suspicions of Imperium and FT. But all three of us? It feels more like a "scum wouldn't do this" type thing.

[Solar Wind]

^Things like that^ His entire Iso is full of em, I feel no need to quote.

"Stop making me second guess my read." Seriously, that's not a town post. That's buddying at its finest. I pull that shit all the time as scum. It's the I have you as town, but still have some doubt so I must be town.

I can maybe see scum make the kind of post I did which is why I said I could buy the suspicion on our slot. But I don't buy that you can plausibly have the reads you have. From the start, I've been demanding that Imperium town themselves up and continued questioning them when I don't feel fully confident they are town so that should be an obvious indication that we have no intention of buddying. It feels more like you are shoehorning reads to make them fit.

And 458 is so waffley it hurts. He's like, ank migh be town, but he might be scum, and I had him as town, but maybe I was wrong. The subtext is, "weeellll he WAS town, but there's this thing where there might be a wagon on him and I kind of don't want to stop it."

I can buy that 458 may look scummy on a surface level - but that's how your point feels: surface level.

Vezok is town as fuck because because 411, 463, and 472 aren't posts I can see scum making in this situation. They're too easy to jump on. Now, jumping on them would be shitty, but with a sheepy enough town it might be enough to get lynched and I have enough faith in scum vezok that he wouldn't put himself in that kind of situation this early.

This is a pretty huge stretch. I don't believe that you see Vezok as so blazingly town based on the little contribution he has put into the game and are concerned with us, Imperium, and FT.

[Solar Wind]

I'd like all hyrda's to please sign who they are when they post from here on in.
Thanks.

I don't do this. If I feel that from context it's not obvious who's posting, then I add something that should make it clear it's me and not my partner. I usually get some decent data from playing this way. And if nothing else it sets up the always hilarious interaction that goes something like this.

"Who made that post?"

"ffery"

"VOTE: fferyhydra"

And that interaction actually has some correlation with the other player's alignment.

[Solar Wind]

Those of you who are already town reading me could you explain WHY?

Bit is actually better at being scum than town. Do not let the VI routine fool you.

Of the 3 votes on me his seems the scummiest. No reasoning giving just a bald vote after two votes have already been cast. It looks like he is going for low hanging fruit.
e
VOTE: Bit

I'm leaning town on Bit.

[Solar Wind]

I'm going go off and hate this game for a while. You and falcon need to work this out, I guess. If you want me let me know.

[Solar Wind]

Okay. Tammy, I see your concerns. You are misinterpreting most or all of my posts. I'm surprised that that's the reaction you got from all of my posts because I feel like I've been incredibly town this game - more so than most of my towngames in fact. I was trolling you, sure, but I didn't realize you were bothered by that until now. I've had flickers of paranoia about your slot which I guess contributed to me being more guarded than usual but I think you are very, very town now and I'll address your points more seriously in a bit. I'm going to go grab dinner and will get to this in an hour or two and if you are going to be around tonight, that's cool.

[Solar Wind]

Has anything relevant happened in the 21 pages? I forced myself to read them all, and moderately regret wasting my time doing so.

What are your thoughts about Tiphaine Death? Xombie? Ankamius?

[Solar Wind]

Okay, this is from your first post:

On early D1 play: Your Post 73 was irritating especially with the "

Because if you think you actually know what either of our scum games are like. And think your meta is so great that you know how to read us soon enough

" line because it felt unnecessarily accusatory and hostile. At that point I felt my posts were perfectly cordial and I was even hoping you were town like I said here:

btw i think solar wind and ft are town

I think FT is probably town. A little early to tell for sure. Hoping you are town as well.

To that your response was

Gun to your head. What's your read of us right now?

I think you should have understood that if I didn't give a read on you, I didn't develop a solid read that I was willing to share yet and you were being rather pushy demanding that I give a read on you. And then when I admitted that I had concerns, you went into full attack mode. I felt it would be so much easier if we didn't attack each other over nothing and let the game play out and develop reads off of the content that we put in.

I also wasn't a huge fan of your reach out. What you said was:

I hope so! And I hope if so we find each other early and can work together. Ffery and I keep saying that we need to work together sooner when we're town reading each other to wreck scum teams.

I reasonably interpreted that as you reaching out to Ffery only, considering if you were reaching out to me/wanted to resolve our past arguments or whatever and work together again, you'd have said something about us wrecking scumteams together rather than just you and Ffery. I was fine with that and thought she would respond when she could. In your next post was when you started attacking me because you feel I should have responded to it when I felt like if you wanted a response from me, you would have phrased it differently.

And your entire tone early D1 was much more of "

you think you are so great you can read me, why aren't you seeing me as town??

" rather than "

since we can read each other pretty well, let's hope we find each other soon and destroy scum.

" And the most ironic part is you keep claiming that you are SO good at reading me that I would not post in a neighborhood as scum just because of your presence in it while mocking my ability to read you. Let's be clear:

I'm

the one that is (correctly) reading you as town. You are the one who's misreading me so your entire tone feels disrespectful and actually doesn't make a whole lot of sense. So, yes. I was irritated at your Post 73. If you wanted to reach out to me, that wasn't the way to do it.

My Post 77 wasn't designed to start an argument. It was a direct response to your previous posts and what I described above + I had put much more content into the thread by then so accusing me of being scum and claiming I should see that you are town while at the same time dismissing my ability to read you and playing up your ability to read me. And I do think we had more respect for each other as players in the past than now but it goes both ways. And I never said I didn't want to work with you. I was on the fence about whether we'd be able to work with each other before the game started but I was quite happy that you wanted to but that fell apart quickly.

~~~

On Post 453

: Nacho and I have a specific way we interact with each other and we respect each other's play and work well together. From my end, I normally expect Nacho to see me as town when I'm town. That's why it felt off that he called my read strength weird as it is not something I normally expect to see from him and I thought he was angling to suspect me. If somebody other than Nacho made that post, I wouldn't have given it a second glance but because it was Nacho, I focused in on it.

It wasn't me telling him I'd rescind my town read on you guys or threaten to lynch you or whatever. It was more that if Nacho was town, I wanted him to not act weird so I can feel comfortable in that read because this is one of those games where our early interaction made it harder to see the town from you guys.

~~~

Last night when I didn't comment on a couple of his reads, he wondered why I hadn't. Never mind the fact, that I don't go commenting on everyone's reads all the time especially this early in the game when I'm feeling things out. I'm not going to comment for the sake of commenting when I don't feel solid one way or another or even if I sometimes do. He also asked me to have nacho talk to him about angry pidgeon.

At the time I made the post, I was under the impression that you were reading me as reasonably town and wanted to work with me. I had just said that two people you were grilling (Ankamius and Bitmap) were town. I expected some sort of reaction. Maybe an acknowledgement that you agreed if you did. Maybe telling me to explain why. Maybe disagreement if you disagreed. I posted both in thread and in the neighborhood and you never responded here or there.

The posts in the neighborhood are also pretty weird. It felt like you were skipping my posts and only responding to bitmap. You were even responding to Bitmap's non-game related posts but not my game related ones. And you had entirely ignored it when I asked you to tell Nacho that I wanted his read on AP. I would have expected at least some sort of "sure" or "okay." Nacho even came back this morning and said that you hadn't told him anything despite me asking you twice (once in the neighborhood and once in the main thread). I wasn't too worried and I said as much but I enquired all the same to see what was wrong. And remember, at this point I was under the impression that you thought I was town and wanted to work with me - and if you did, you'd have talked to me about Ank and Bitmap.

But I also didn't like Falcon pointing out that HE DID NOT BUDDY US BECAUSE HE DEMANDED WE TOWN OURSELVES because it just feels like more posturing.

What I said was absolutely true. I wasn't posturing. It was pointing out that TD's accusation of buddying was terrible and accusing TD of being scum for it.

[Solar Wind]

I also disagree with Tiphaine that any of it is buddying. That point is one of the things I really don't like from that, and mostly it's because he has played with us before. We don't tend to interact with each other all that differently from game to game.

To be fair to TD, he saw us in one game (FFX) where I think we worked quite well together at least during that 4 rl day time frame that I was in the game (I don't know if you disagree with that). We collaborated on our reads and tried to work towards a lynch. That's not remotely what's happening here. However, I think he's scum for other reasons although Ffery has reasons to think that he's town and we are working on it.

Posturey is posturing, basically putting on false airs. I thought his response that he wasn't buddying because he had demanded that we town ourselves felt off. It felt like posturing, like no look I'm trying to read them I really really am. The response felt weird because instead of trying to understand where Tiphaine was coming from he immediately shut it down. It's a silly charge, and although I haven't played with Tiphaine, besides Final Fantasy where he was under an alt and playing differently on purpose, but I don't remember him scum hunting the way that he has here. My memory of Tiphaine though is someone who scum hunts in a weird way and tends to get mislynched for it, but in the games we played in before his chaotic style was a style that I could follow and get a read on. His entrance into the game felt more calculated than I've seen him. I've never seen him as scum though and don't know if his game has evolved, so it's something I'll look into.

There is no posturing here and it is less of justifying myself to TD than showing him why his suspicion was terrible. I pretty much agree the calculated style entrance. He and AP are my current strongest scumreads (not considering Ffery's). FT's pretty much right.

[Solar Wind]

I knew it. I told Nacho earlier tonight when he was insisting that you were town that the weirdness of your interaction with me was that you were pissed off that I joined the game. I wish you would have said something; I'd not have joined, but I'll be a silent partner here now, you will not have to worry about me.

That's

your response to my explaining something that was emotionally difficult for me to spill? And I was actually hoping something productive would happen.

I was not pissed that you joined the game at all. Please don't be a silent partner.

[Solar Wind]

Thanks Tammy especially since you often see me as scummy that makes more sense on you and Nacho, so yeah you can go in my likely town pile And that jives with what I know about Nacho who does tend to read me as town generally.


Still want to know from SW (fery and falcon) about why their early town read on me.


Farside I did not say everyone voting me was scum, I was basing my read and vote on the WAY that Bit joined the wagon, and the fact that peeps were brushing him off as town and VI. I have seen him pull some pretty good stunts as scum before and even 3rd party.

My early town read was partly - maybe mostly - based on what I learned from Nacho about meta of your interactions with him in the Disney Princess mini. I asked Nacho in our neighborhood if he agreed last night. He posted that he did agree this morning.

I don't think scum-you would have set out to immediately potentially antagonize both of our slots, but particularly not Nacho.

[Solar Wind]

Also, fuck TD. The rest of our neighborhood is already revealed so I'm saying it here and now. He's in our neighborhood of four player-slots.

I'm curious if there's another neighborhood that large or larger in the game.

[Solar Wind]

I knew it. I told Nacho earlier tonight when he was insisting that you were town that the weirdness of your interaction with me was that you were pissed off that I joined the game. I wish you would have said something; I'd not have joined, but I'll be a silent partner here now, you will not have to worry about me.

That's

your response to my explaining something that was emotionally difficult for me to spill? And I was actually hoping something productive would happen.

I was not pissed that you joined the game at all. Please don't be a silent partner.

Also, I reread the neighborhood and if you can't see what my issue was, I don't know what to tell you. You had plenty of posts after me asking you to ask Nacho about his AP read which you neither acknowledged nor did. And then I asked in the main thread as well and you neither acknowledged nor did it since Nacho pointed out that you didn't let him know. So, I don't get what the problem is.

[Solar Wind]

Solar, Imperium, help me pressure TD.

So, I still think TD is scum. Fairly confident about it in fact. But I'll discuss with Ffery when I have more energy to do it.

[Solar Wind]

Scum already knows who is town, even in multiball they know who is not part of their team. By discussing things you may trip them up and catch them in the smaller setting of a neighborhood, so I disagree with you that the neighborhoods are useless.

BS. By sharing our reads, they know who is less likely to be mislynched (NK bait), possible PR crumbs that aren't available to all of town, and who can be sold as a lynch.

How much of your thoughts here are shaded by our huge-ass neighborhood in the FFX game? And how is that game shading your thoughts?

[Solar Wind]

Refresh my memory FFX game?

I don't think you have memory to refresh?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=59399

House and my hydra were in a 5-slot neighborhood in a 21 player game. All five of us turned out to be town.

[Solar Wind]

All the focus on the huge-ass neighborhood was a big help in that.

Another game I played that was semi-concurrent with FFX, I was in a 6 person neighborhood that contained 2 scum. One of the town players was able to split off into a new neighborhood, and the old neighborhood players could choose to join him or stay in the original neighborhood. We wound up with an all town mini-neighborhood on night 1. In that game, I think every player was in a neighborhood, so the similarities to this game are probably closer. Some neighborhoods had no scum. I think our 6 person hood was the only one with more than 1 scum.

[Solar Wind]

A few thoughts on TiphaineDeath (mine only, not Ffery's). Ffery reads him as town. I'm unsure and still trying to figure it out and am going to look over past games but I want to put this out there.

Spoiler: On TiphaineDeath

He's obviously playing nothing like LostPatience (an alt of his) did in Final Fantasy 10 mafia. LP was a pretty strong townread for me in FF10 and it was based mostly off of his Katsuki interaction. While the alt may cause a change in playstyle, the biggest thing that struck out to me was the level of thinking that he had scum-Katsuki figured out and was quite proud of that read as well as how he was mostly in observation mode about the competing wagons. The latter could potentially be a result of an alt as he didn't care about the potential to be lynched while he normally would.

So from the top, Solar winds interactions over the last couple pages are shitty. 453 and 458 are downright terrible and since I've already decided that solar and imperium can't both be town because you're trying to goddamned hard to buddy each other you can be the scum out of the two.

I think fourtrouble is scum too, the ank push is for shit and almost every other post he's made is asking random unconnected questions. Just fyi, lynching someone for being anti town is classic scum play, and vezok is town as fuck.

I'm reserving judgment on the whole xombie/metalsonic debacle. I seem to literally always scumread metal sonic at some point in the game and am usually wrong so I am a bit cautious on this issue.

I have a gut scumread on house that will take some more examining for me to explain to myself and others.

For now, VOTE: solar wind, sup man?

Also we should not out neighorhoods.

Coming to his posts here, while all I saw was scum on first glance, there are a few things I liked about his play: First is his accusation that my posts 453 and 458 are terrible. It is something that I believe an outside party could find scummy. Me telling Nacho not to make me second guess my read feels like something scum might do to a townie. But it is a really surface level thing and I'm in fact town. It feels like someone who's not a great scumhunter might call it scummy as it is one of those traditionally "scummy" things when taken out of context. So the question becomes whether TD is someone who scumhunts beyond the surface. His case on Katsuki in FF10 suggests some scumhunting depth as I thought it was quite good.

There are a couple of ways I'm interpreting his assertion that Solar Wind and Imperium can't both be town. He says he's "already decided" this giving no reason for why he would decide it. It could potentially be town paranoid that the two most active players may have scum in them. But I don't see where the paranoia is coming from or the reasons behind it. Most people when they are paranoid try to give the players space and figure out how they influence the gamestate. TD's approach if he's town is atypical as he starts off full swing against us.

A couple of other things bothered me. His accusation that FT is asking "random, unconnected questions" which feels somewhat meaningless, and the "Vezok is town as fuck" seems like an odd read for town, and agenda driven as scum. I can't see a town reason where he scumreads all three of us, and is so sure that Vezok is town. What has Vezok done that makes him a "town as fuck" read to anyone? Vezok is not even particularly easy to read.

I liked that he was cautious about Metal Sonic. There is something about the tone of his play that felt like a no-nonsense tone which I also liked. But upon meta-diving him, I realized that this is non-alignment indicative. (I'll post the meta links in a bit).

Gut scumread on House is also kinda weird as House outed that he was a vengeful and I think LostPatience who was in a game where a vengeful scum did not out immediately would have a different gut reaction.

^Things like that^ His entire Iso is full of em, I feel no need to quote.

"Stop making me second guess my read." Seriously, that's not a town post. That's buddying at its finest. I pull that shit all the time as scum. It's the I have you as town, but still have some doubt so I must be town.

And 458 is so waffley it hurts. He's like, ank migh be town, but he might be scum, and I had him as town, but maybe I was wrong. The subtext is, "weeellll he WAS town, but there's this thing where there might be a wagon on him and I kind of don't want to stop it."

Vezok is town as fuck because because 411, 463, and 472 aren't posts I can see scum making in this situation. They're too easy to jump on. Now, jumping on them would be shitty, but with a sheepy enough town it might be enough to get lynched and I have enough faith in scum vezok that he wouldn't put himself in that kind of situation this early.

A post like this makes me think he doesn't know the definition of buddying as opposed to that he's making stuff up. His accusation was a similar one that Tammy has so it is plausible town can think this way.

When I wrote the post on Ank, I was aware that it might come off as scummy to some players - those with a rigid, unbending style of play who think that waffling on a read normally comes from opportunistic scum so I quite like that TD picked up on a post that might seem "off" to some modes of scumhunting. What I didn't like was him ignoring the larger body of work to focus specifically on two posts. But that might be something that is more playstyle dependent than alignment and perhaps TD normally just picks on shiny things as town and jumps on them.

So, he calls Vezok town as fuck based on a bunch of posts. Take a look at them:

With the amount of spam this game already has I think I'll go and dwell in the nighbourhood and let you guys talk it out.

How is he anti-town? Also, being lazy is not alignment indicative.

Not reading large portions of the game is anti-town. Not commenting on anything unless specifically asked is anti-town. Casting an RVS vote (i.e. trying to go back) when RVS is dead is anti-town. All of these suggest that Ankamius isn't scumhunting (which is anti-town) and a passive/reactionary approach (which is also anti-town). I also disagree that being lazy isn't scummy. Yes, town are sometimes lazy too (and I'm at fault for this more than anyone), but in general scum are lazy more often than town, so it increases the odd that someone is scum.

No. Antitown is posting spam and cluttering the thread. I don't have anything important to say when the whole thread is bullshit.

I've read the thread. I saw nothing worthwhile. It's the first day of day 1. There is nothing that can actually be used to make a proper case.

Also what does having your attention on me mean?

My issue is that I can't in any way relate to why these posts can't be faked by scum. TD says he has faith in scum-Vezok. Yet, my experience with Vezok hasn't left me particularly impressed with his towngame and I can't imagine he would be extremely competent as scum. He's ascribing a fairly complex thought process to Vezok and I legitimately feel that scum-Vezok in this situation would not think in the terms that TD claims. Yet, I'm not sure what it says about TD himself.

Then we come to the following interaction between FT and TD which I think TD misrepresents or misinterprets, can't tell which:

Solar, I agree completely, especially when you add in the gut scumread on House. Tiphaine's wording and emotion also feels fake. Even if you're scummy, you're not "downright terrible," the buddying doesn't deserve a "goddamned" description, vezok isn't "town as fuck" even if he's town, and the questions I asked weren't "random" or "unconnected."

Tiphaine, how is vezok "town as fuck"?

Tiphaine, how is this question random or unconnected?

It's just a one liner, it doesn't actually do anything, and you tend to fade out on them. It's like you're asking questions just to ask questions. You follow up sometimes, like now obviously, but it's not because it's your default, it's because you feel it's what you have to do. Scum motivated, not town.

Also I swear a lot, trying to pin me as scum because I am swearing is not gonna do it for ya.

The first point of note is the swearing part. What FT is saying here is that the certainty TD expressed when TD said "town as fuck" is unrealistic. TD interprets that to mean that FT is calling him scum because he is swearing which is somewhat absurd. But I think it is possible that he legitimately misread FT's post as that. I'm just scratching my head as to how he thought that but people believe weird things.

The second point of note is the "random and unconnected" accusation he levels at FT which to be quite frank feels like a buzzword. People pick up on unconnected things all the time so I don't get why that would be remotely scummy. He then accuses FT of posting one-liners which is almost universally a playstyle tell rather than alignment. I have LITERALLY not met a single player who typically only posts walls as town and one-liners as scum. Players emulate their town style as scum the best they can. He continues that FT is following up on some of his questions only because he has to which is fairly subjective and he can't know that that is the case.

"That" was supposed to be pointed at 489.

Sorry solar, that's just me, I don't really give a shit who I'm going after, I see scummy things, or things that worry me/ping, I jump em.

This post feels like false bravado. My accusation was that he was as scum going after unlikely targets. He responds by explaining his TOWN style of play. That was the running theme in this post as well as his posts above to FT (the bravado). Could be non-alignment indicative. Meta-dive should make this clearer.

I sense chainsaws, many chainsaws, they surround me with their cuddly teeth.

I really liked this post though as the confidence reminded me of the Katsuki read in FFX. It has the same smug feeling that TD as town tends to have.

As far as "calculated entrance" goes, me coming in to a game that already has 20 FUCKING PAGES, is much like me replacing in to a game, in which you may note the same thing occurs.

This doesn't actually address the concern and calculatedness has nothing to do with how many pages are in a game. I feel that he may be misinterpreting a lot of things that are said though.

No charizard, you're being derpish.

Also, due to developments in our neighborhood I will be unvoting now UNVOTE: , I'll have a new plan tomorrow, I don't think what I just saw can have been faked, or would have come from scum, I either have a full town neighborhood or bitmap is scum, but I think I will be hunting outside it for now.

Pedit: Sonic, splain.

Quite liked the re-evaluation here but I'm normally a sucker for people that re-evaluate their reads. I think it is also possible he saw that he could no longer continue to push us and needed new targets.

The last thing he did in his ISO was go after Metal Sonic:

Metal sonic, what in the fuck was that, you come in all gung ho and shit with "This dude is scum for sure period because X" and then one person says no to you and you drop it and vote the biggest wagon? Seriously man?

Yeah, this needs to die now. VOTE: MetalSonic

These posts aren't awesome and he did say he tends to suspect Metal Sonic so I'm ambivalent on how I feel about this.

Also I REALLY don't like the combination of metal Sonic's 892 and 909. Like, almost enough to vote him over kats.

VOTE: Metal Sonic

I like this idea, this idea makes me happy. Kats will keep.

Also I don't see the point of a non-secret alt. If I was going to tell people who I was I would just play as my main.

Sorry STD, I know better, I just don't care.

This will be my last post, sorry I wasn't able to derail this wagon, hope you guys manage to pull through after lynching me.

Kats-Desperado-MetalSonic-Empking.

^Final Request^

Desperado/House/Empking/MetalSonic?

Serene, you got some head dissonance going on there, you already made that joke yesterday .

Still not going to self vote, still not going to claim, the combination of 3142 and 3146 is terrible, My read on desperado may have been as wrong as my read on kats because mala is acting town as hell.

I'm not impressed in the slightest by houses claiming shenanagins, nor the way he chose to do them, nor what he has posted in the neighborhood. Given what we know it's all a load of wifom that he's trying to get town points for.

Metal sonic is also still scum. But seriously ya'll, I failed to defend myself yesterday, I should have died yesterday, and kats trolling kept me alive. There's no way anyone else is getting lynched today, despite the obvious scum motivation on my wagon in both days. So, I'm gonna go ahead and vote house, and ya'll an join me if you feel it, but I'm pretty much gonna check out again, gg, gl town, sorry I played so shitty on this one. Guess that's what happens when you spend half a day trying not to be yourself, it doesn't come off very genuine.

Sweenz/Droog/Empking/MetalSonic?

The above few quotes are links from Final Fantasy 10 (where he played under his alt (LostPatience) and includes every reference that LostPatience has made of Metal Sonic in FF10. As is obvious, he's pretty much called him scum everytime he talked about him.

So, as to what I think of TD overall: There are some posts I liked, and some that I felt faked. But there are a few markers I've seen in his posts which may come in handy for meta-diving.

Ffery has good reasons for thinking he's town but I won't divulge them for obvious reasons.

[Solar Wind]

Also, hi Mastin. Looking forward to seeing your take on the game. I would also really, really love your read on AngryPidgeon whenever you get around to it.

[Solar Wind]

Mastin, you're voting someone that Nacho and I are both reading as town. :/

[Solar Wind]

hello

VOTE: solar wind

Oh hai!

[Solar Wind]

Rach do you think there's a problem with voting someone who's made 3 non-substantive posts in a 29 page game?

[Solar Wind]

Because he has commented about people who have been substantive and your post 718 looks like

posturing

if you'll pardon the expression.

[Solar Wind]

she. sorry. :/

Ugh. apologies for the slip, dramonic.

[Solar Wind]

Ok, I'm going to vote. Let's see..

VOTE: The Mask

Because?

[Solar Wind]

Because he has commented about people who have been substantive and your post 718 looks like

posturing

if you'll pardon the expression.

The problem is that a whole fuckton of people have only given a few posts and been in-active this whole game. What makes AP special?

Are you asking this of me? Or of Mastin?

[Solar Wind]

I don't particularly want to leave a roadmap to ffery-townreads in the thread for AP's enjoyment, so this isn't going to be heavy detail about how I form my read of him.

I don't think I'm all that good yet as spotting him as scum early on. I seem to home in on him being town more easily and wind up with a "hmmm...not sure" read at first when he's scum.

But, his scum game to me can be pretty hardball with strong strategic pushes to strongarm lynches. When he's hemmed in by scumreads, his play is less hardball (though not necessarily less effective).

He hasn't really done anything substantive yet, but there are decent well known reasons why that wouldn't happen given when the game started up. He's been in Chicago at a mini-meet with Chicago scummers since Friday. I expect to see him around and maybe starting to catch up tonight or tomorrow.

[Solar Wind]

Ok, I'm going to vote. Let's see..

VOTE: The Mask

Because?

*Shrugs*

Vote looks hypocritical

[Solar Wind]

Xombie
ZZZX
Bitmap
FourTrouble
Imperium
Solar Wind
Ooba

TSO<--Read atrophied somewhat, but still town.
iHouse<--Around here for now.
Ankamius <--Eh, read atrophied a bit. Still townish.
farside22
vezokpiraka
VysePresident
PeregrineV
beastcharizard
theaceofspade
Metal Sonic
The Mask

TiphaineDeath
RachMarie <--But she'd be at the bottom normally.
BRantz
AngryPidgeon
-Blonde-

...Yeah, not a great division, but something like this for a start. It'd help if people were actually posting in HERE.

Are you reading Xombie like you'd read a newb? I kinda am.

The strength of your ZZZX read surprises me. I flipped through his iso and get a slight townfeel from them. Other than that I agree with your top tier.

I'll take your Rach concerns under consideration. What about her play feels scummy to you? I feel like she's pushing people this game more than she tends to do when she's scum. I haven't played with scum-Rach since Xenogears.

[Solar Wind]

@ Mastin, can you explain the strength of your ZZZX read?

[Solar Wind]

Would also like an explanation of your Brantz scumread, and why Blonde is so far down the scumlist when similar low content posters seem to be in your null pile (and ZZZX in your townpile)?

You put TD in your scumpile but you said that his awful posting was town. Elaborate on this.

[Solar Wind]

I'm leaning a bit that way myself (surprisingly enough) but Mastin/AP interactions will solidify my reads on both of them.

[Solar Wind]

So I'm the most likely to be mafia? .. Ok.

Do you think his read is unjustified?

[Solar Wind]

That's not how PRs generally play at MS. And this is role madness.

Why are you random-voting when there's so much data already in the thread? That is actually the scummiest thing you've done - plus the random vote you put down was on a player as inactive as you are. If you think that kind of play could indicate a PR why are you doing that?

[Solar Wind]

What's your play experience elsewhere. How does it differ from here?

[Solar Wind]

You should try. There's some interesting stuff that's happened.

What are the day lengths usually where you played before?

[Solar Wind]

24 hour days was the norm where I played before too. When I started playing here, it felt like I was playing with Ents.

I turned into an Ent.

If you're not going to read the whole thread, I suggest you at least ISO metal sonic and Xombie. That interaction will probably get more discussion over the next few pages.

[Solar Wind]

He told Xombie he had a daycop guilty on Xombie. It's more about the reaction by Xombie than about Metal Sonic's alignment at the moment.

[Solar Wind]

I dunno. I'd probably want to meta dive for similar events if it had been you or someone else where data might be available. I'm leery of assuming that everyone reacts the same way because it caused two mislynches and a town loss when someone assumed there was one right way to react to being fake guiltied.

[Solar Wind]

I dunno. I'd probably want to meta dive for similar events if it had been you or someone else where data might be available. I'm leery of assuming that everyone reacts the same way because it caused two mislynches and a town loss when someone assumed there was one right way to react to being fake guiltied.

But my problem is that Xombie doesn't have any previous games and you're assuming as a result, his reaction was townish.

In the absence of anything comparative to go on, I default to using myself as a yardstick, and footnote the hell out of the event for future reconsideration.

I think you're doing the same thing? Different yardsticks.

[Solar Wind]

I would say pretty emphatically that Imperium is town. Which is a huge relief!

I think you need to reread that mason stuff again.

[Solar Wind]

Eyestott, let house know that he missed a question I had for him earlier:

Scum already knows who is town, even in multiball they know who is not part of their team. By discussing things you may trip them up and catch them in the smaller setting of a neighborhood, so I disagree with you that the neighborhoods are useless.

BS. By sharing our reads, they know who is less likely to be mislynched (NK bait), possible PR crumbs that aren't available to all of town, and who can be sold as a lynch.

How much of your thoughts here are shaded by our huge-ass neighborhood in the FFX game? And how is that game shading your thoughts?

[Solar Wind]

the neighborhood mechanic in this game is not comparable to FFX at all.

Anyone here played X-Men Avengers alliance? By Desperado. I was scum there with my gambit letting my team win.

I don't thnk mechanic comparableness really touches on what I was wondering. But, House answered my question, and I'm more or less satisfied.

[Solar Wind]

I am very apprehensive about scumreading people in this game

Why?

[Solar Wind]

So, I skimmed the past couple of pages: I have a decent townread on Rach based on some of her aggression with respect to us/Imperium.

Tammy is virtually trust-tell level of town.

[Solar Wind]

Ffery, can you explain your town read on TD? What am I missing there?

There's a trajectory to my read. I'm not sure how much of it is in the thread vs in the neighborhood, so I'm going to summarize it in this post. I went into the game thinking there's a decent chance of scum in our neighborhood purely based on the neighborhood size, and thinking that scum have to be scattered around here and there in the pantheons. Bookitty and Imperium both towned it up pretty hard before TD had posted any content at all. So by the time he entered the game thread and neighborhood, I was predisposed to think he might be scum. His entrance wasn't quite as one-dimensional as I associate with him as scum (based on the xenoblade theme game where we were on a scum team together). So, I backed off to see what he'd do.

There was a kerfuffle between our slot and Imperium-tammy in the game thread which moved to the neighborhood and turned into a huge wall exchange there. TD did something at that point which to me is completely antithetical to scum. He decided the argument was town v town rather than subtly or blatantly encouraging the acrimony onward, or even just ignoring it and letting it take its potentially lengthy course.

This made a huge impression on me, because I thought that our neighborhood was going to be useless while things were so hostile and confused.

Scum could do that, and sophisticated scum probably would do that, but sophisticated is not my impression of TD's scum game.

Seeing it in real time, it looked like a genuine read/reaction to me.

Right now, I feel it's likely that our neighborhood is all town.

[Solar Wind]

Pretty sure it was a reference to you.

[Solar Wind]

It was. brainfart.

[Solar Wind]

What are your thoughts on TD's strong townread of you even earlier?

[Solar Wind]

I'm struggling a little to see the town in that pov.

[Solar Wind]

I don't have an opinion on Mantis. I'm still hoping to glean something from the Mastin/AP interaction that will happen (soon hopefully).

[Solar Wind]

Also, can someone explain the whole mason thing or should I just nod and smile and pretend I understand what's going on?

Reasonably sure they are gambits whatever the alignment of the people making them so don't take them seriously.

[Solar Wind]

Please note you will not have any access to any private topics (including scum qt) when you are in this portal.

Are you also restricted from other private topics during this time (however long it is)?

[Solar Wind]

Please note you will not have any access to any private topics (including scum qt) when you are in this portal.

Are you also restricted from other private topics during this time (however long it is)?

Yeah.

I'm pretty annoyed with him at this point. Good luck in there.

[Solar Wind]

Bad scum? Heck no.

...And there's your answer.

I don't like this answer either. I get the feeling mastin's not trying to figure TD's alignment out (i.e. her read is fake).

That's just Mastin though. Remember Tales of you?

[Solar Wind]

Okay. I see what you're saying. His reevaluation has hints of town. I don't see any support for his lynch so I'm willing to wait on this. Who do you want to lynch? One of the inactives?

AngryPidgeon is my biggest scumread at this point. I also dislike quite a few of TSO's posts - not sure if alignment indicative. But Ffery wants to wait to develop a read on AP and he's busy atm so won't be posting. We have a bunch of townreads as well which we'll post in a bit and then probably POE-lynch someone we can agree on if things with AP stay the same.

[Solar Wind]

Go over what your role does again so there's no confusion: you and MS leave the game for a while losing access to Private Topics as well as the game thread and come back later sometime? When?

[Solar Wind]

Also relevant.



I'm still here so feel free to ask any dark and deep seeded questions.

Are you/your target able to post in the game thread while you're in your neighborhood or whatever it is?

[Solar Wind]

So neither of you can vote/change your vote after this takes place?

[Solar Wind]

welp.

[Solar Wind]

In what realm do you compare a lack of effort this game to my over-the-top-to-the-point-of-detrimentality effort in Tales?!? Tales was the anti-no-effort game; I efforted so hard it killed me. Quite literally, in the game, and pretty metaphorically in my life.

f-16 can clarify if I'm wrong, but I think he's talking about how low in reasons your reads were during early-mid day 1 of that game. FourTrouble only participated in the Tales of You game during that period iirc. It's not about effort.

[Solar Wind]

But, I'm curious why coasting seems like a good idea to you.

[Solar Wind]

I doubt Bitmap can answer that by now. I had a question in for the Mod that was answered a little while ago, so I imagine whatever is going on with Bitmap and Metal Sonic has also taken place.

You can probably figure out something of what he was concerned about by reading his ISO.

[Solar Wind]

Farside, why are you voting PV right now? What do you think of Brantz and Solar wind?
eye

What do YOU think of brantz and solar wind?

[Solar Wind]

To be honest, I'm not sure. I really struggle Day 1 in larges (and in general, actually), because I mainly work with NAA, and role related analysis, and because I generally need to interact with people to start reading them, sort of like a building block.
So, lets interact, Solar. What reads are you two conflicting on, and why?
Eye

I don't think we're conflicting much. I think we're both leaning on each other's reads where we don't feel as knowledgeable ourselves.old-meta diving as he does.

Right now, I think he's leaning very strong scum on AP, and I am dead-zero-null. I kinda understand why he and Tammy both are scum-reading AP, but for me, it will take more data to come to a conclusion.

[Solar Wind]

huh. managed to backspace something.

The point I was making there was that he is a meta-based player. I rely on experiential meta, and don't put as much weight on cold meta diving as he does. That's kinda irrelevant to our reads atm, but it's informative of how we approach games individually.

[Solar Wind]

Scum very probably have day chat. I'd be surprised if all the pantheons had day chat and the scum team couldn't post in their pt.

TSO plz answer the question.

[Solar Wind]

Yeah, AP is scum. The whole manipulate Tammy routine is the exact same shit he pulled in Tales.

[Solar Wind]

There's no way AP's last post comes from town. As soon as I convince Ffery that he's scum and vote him, I'll make my case. We're lynching AP today.

[Solar Wind]

Also, everyone notice that AP and Ffery played with each other quite a bit and even hydra with each other. Him not trying to read Ffery and only nitpicking my posts means he believes he needs Ffery on his side and as long as that happens and we're divided, we won't be effective at lynching him.

[Solar Wind]

Need to leave but Mastin I see you online. Please comment on AP's last post. Thanks.

[Solar Wind]

I lost a huge reply post to network problems somehow. I hate my life.

Who do you think scum-Metal Sonic would fake a guilty on you with the intention to get you lynched? He'll die right after.

I said as much. Hence my

Im a little concerned that Solar missed this. Its fresh in my head since I just read from there, but eh.

I actually sort of like how Xombie went after that too. I'd expect nervous scum to just say "no you're lying!" instead of coming up with some future scenario in which MS is claiming insane cop, which actually isn't something totally unreasonable to expect in a rolemadness and clearly crazy setup. Anyways, it felt less like OMGUS and more like "you know there is no way out once I flip town, right?"

I agree with your last paragraph. The reason I started that interaction with Xombie was because I wanted to tease out more about his mindset. Prior to the gambit we were scumreading him for his confirmation phase play.

So I'm out of town and regretting joining 2 larges. Bear with me as I lurk for a few days.

Also I'm so bulletproof

real claim.

Why did you feel the need to claim this?

Tried playing a BP role quietly in Anything Goes. Got scumread for making my claim when I was about to be lynched. I really don't have a good reason other than "I wanted to".

The way you played it would completely negate the utility of being bulletproof.

1. Angrypidgeon - I hope he's town. Like his tone. Also not sure where he's going with the house push

I forgot myself, so :S. I think I mostly voted him for gut because it looked like he was trying to blend in without really actually doing anything.

Curious to see how this read evolves.

Not liking ooba's Rach town read.

I can't even ask him to explain it, because he says "no particular reason".

I mean like this is a perfect example of something that I don't really consider pro-town. Looks like he found a weakish logical spot in ooba's reads and decided to jump him for it.

Is it scummy?

I think town would have added punctuation!

Why?

I'd still like an answer to this. This didn't seem like a joke to me.

This isn't that stupid contraction tell that BRO always talks about is it? He thinks that town is more likely to say "I'm town" as opposed to "I am town". Probably not, reading this again, but damn I hate tells like that.

kinda like this bit.

Initially I had Xombie as null because of the whole song reference thing but his "lack" of reaction towards MS kind of rubs me the wrong way.

His reaction was kind of quiet emotionally, but he voted MS and said he wasn't going to getaway with claiming insane cop. So disagree.

@Bitmap:

Do you think MS and Xombie could be on the same team?

What are your thoughts about Bitmap?

I've read the thread. I saw nothing worthwhile. It's the first day of day 1. There is nothing that can actually be used to make a proper case.

Town.

Meh. That's a worldshaking read.

since I've already decided that solar and imperium can't both be town because you're trying to goddamned hard to buddy each other you can be the scum out of the two.

Soooo, they are exhibiting similar behavior which means they are opposite alignments? Just to be clear, this is what you think?

What do

you

think?

The analysis in 484 feels very superficial/fake.

Ya, maybe. I did revisit the Solar posts in question and I can sort of see where Tiphaine is coming from there. The one about Ankamius stuck out. I might try and explain if anyone cares, but it just felt off and I can see why he might call it out.

So your read of Ank is?

TD feels like he saw all the discussion about how attacking strong players is town and decided to go full bore at it.

LOL. Ok you were right about PA trying to subvert her meta intentionally in Tales but that was a 1:Million shot of being correct logic as is this. No offense.

I really don't like that you used this as an opportunity to discredit, not just disagree.

[Solar Wind]

Ffery posts have read like ffery posts to me for the most part

This feels kinda like a cop-out. town-ffery? scum-ffery?

In the tales of you game you said something similar about me and beli iirc, but inverted I think. Going to go look for that interaction.

[Solar Wind]

Subject: Tales of You (Endgame)

Actually Belisarius is 90% of the reason I think Stalin is town.

ffery has been non-commital and wishywashy. Beli is actually fairly transparent with his thoughts.

[Solar Wind]

Ok. I bitched about it in the scum PT (and I actually bitched about it in person at the mini Chicago meet just last week) that you somehow mystically read PA's actions correctly. I got the same sentiment here when reading that post. You are taking a VERY specific snapshot that explains why someone might do X and ignore other, more likely possibilties. This is how I feel anyhow so I'm gonna post it.

That's not what happened. Penguin's aggression didn't feel natural and was fake and it was partly based on what we were discussing in another game where we were hydra'ing at that time. You are free to discredit all you want but if she was actually town, she wouldn't have played that way and I don't take specific snapshots of players as my townplay revolves more around body-of-work based reads.

[Solar Wind]

I had a couple of paranoid flickers but I think she's town overall. Thoughts on AP?

[Solar Wind]

His read on farside also sucked, and it felt opportunistic coming after Imperium's sniping post.

This is exactly the point I was making to Ffery in our hydra PT.

[Solar Wind]

I looked her online activity and she has been posting elsewhere so that's worrisome. I was hoping to see how she would respond to the votes and attention on her.

[Solar Wind]

I think we have enough of that already in this game. In some cases minus the active. :/

[Solar Wind]

AP, why did my post about not leaving you a roadmap of what to do for me to townread you invoke that emote?

[Solar Wind]

Somewhat busy at the moment so this will be quick.

No, AP's catch up wasn't town. It was designed to manipulate specific people into reading him as town. Nothing that he posted in his catchup is something that he would be unable to fake as scum. Anyone townreading AP should explain why.

Both Ffery and I are reading Imperium as town and have already explained it. Don't get why people are asking again and again. Just read our posts.

Ffery posted her reads in our hydra PT. I expect we'll probably post a list once I re-read the game and refine a few reads I suppose. She's free to post hers obviously but I'm not ready yet.

[Solar Wind]

And while I obviously want to hear from Mantis before nailing down a read there, I do understand the Mantis hate. She showed up, voted us and then disappeared. She continued posting elsewhere in multiple other games during the past several days. There's also a past game I read of her's and she knows Nacho and has certain expectations of him and I think I'd learn something about her alignment based on how she reacted to a vote from Imperium even if it was Tammy casting the vote.

[Solar Wind]

Somewhat busy at the moment so this will be quick.

No, AP's catch up wasn't town. It was designed to manipulate specific people into reading him as town. Nothing that he posted in his catchup is something that he would be unable to fake as scum. Anyone townreading AP should explain why.

Both Ffery and I are reading Imperium as town and have already explained it. Don't get why people are asking again and again. Just read our posts.

Ffery posted her reads in our hydra PT. I expect we'll probably post a list once I re-read the game and refine a few reads I suppose. She's free to post hers obviously but I'm not ready yet.

So we shouldn't read AP as town because all he did may be faked? Then how can we read AP?

I'm saying the townreads on AP are undeserved because the stuff he posted so far is the kind of thing that he routinely posts as scum. Why is it town?

[Solar Wind]

Bad week for me.

vote: four trouble

Soulless sack of poo. AP might be town, changed my mind. Don't like that he's running with his tail between his legs but I get good feelings reading him.

VOTE: theaceofspades

I want these two votes explained.

[Solar Wind]

Im going to call mask tentatively town.

Why?

[Solar Wind]

Look at the post above mine, that should be explanation enough for my vote if you feel like exercising your frontal lobe a bit.

I assumed that was for Post 1114, yes. I asked for an explanation because I don't find it scummy.

[Solar Wind]

i'm a little concerned that you commented on that and not my sudden read on you, but meh.

You're reading f-16, not me. I'm not sure what to make of that, so I'm stewing on it atm. I thought it would be easier to see where you're coming with your Mask read.

[Solar Wind]

i'm a little concerned that you commented on that and not my sudden read on you, but meh.

You're reading f-16, not me. I'm not sure what to make of that, so I'm stewing on it atm. I thought it would be easier to see where you're coming with your Mask read.

Oh I thought you were F16.

I don't think it's that hard to differentiate us, especially in the early game. If we're calling you scum, it's probably an f16 post. If we're asking you questions, it's probably a ffery post.

Mask is being a little over the top with his schtick

[Solar Wind]

And? Or are you just bring a crybaby?

And I want to know what AP thinks about my observation.

[Solar Wind]

AP, I'm going to step back one last time. Ffery found things she liked in your posting and I'm accounting for the possibility that you are town and just trolling me by intentionally hitting the markers I used to figure out scum you in Tales. If you are trolling me, stop doing that. I want to see real scumhunting effort from your side, I want to see obvtown AP and I want to see a substantial body of work. And I want to see it before the end of this day phase.

[Solar Wind]

I find it hard to buy that you are naturally playing this way. But if you ARE trolling me, now that I've figured it out, get serious.

[Solar Wind]

Issues with Post 1037:
1. unjustified town read on Vezok. His agreement with TD feels weird.
2. hop onto farside feels opportunistic in light of Imperium's snark towards Farside.
3. His explanation of the Vezok read feels like a stretch. "Not caring about what other people say" is empty filler and could equally apply to lots of people.
4. His Xombie read is overexplained. The basis is weak, he's just throwing in random junk to say why Xombie is town.
5. His Imperium townread based on the paranoid meltdown feels mechanical. Like he wanted to find something he could unequivocally call town before townreading them.
6. His agreeing with Tammy about her read on me which I talked about before. Feels like fueling the flames.
7. The exchange he quoted which is just nonsensical rambling to pick a fight and cause a distraction.
8. Farside scumread is for too easy and mechanical a reason (scumreads on people unlikely to fight back).
9. Mild buddying to TSO.
10. Completely missing House's very town looking way of claiming to post nitpicky accusations on him.

Issues with Post 295:
1. The "hollow posting" line seems to be directed at me when Imperium said pretty much the same thing. He seems to want to pick a Tales-style fight.
2. Nothing about my post felt out-of-place in the context of what happened early game.

Issues with Post 380:
1. Claims that the hollow posting line was something scum do to look busy while ignoring that we were all doing it at the time. Later takes it back and says that it doesn't mean I'm scum.
2. Accusing me of buddying is kind of ridiculous since that's not how buddying is defined + how didn't Imperium's posts seem like buddying to him if that's how he defines it?

[Solar Wind]

I wanted to type up a sarcastic response and GIF/meme but it is nearly 3:30 AM here and I'm tried so I'll just say yes.

[Solar Wind]

@ Farside, you've been engaging TheAceOfSpades's read on AngryPidgeon. Why not mine?

[Solar Wind]

Okay, starting my catch up. Is there anything people would like me to focus on in my read up?

Yes. A deeper level of understanding of AngryPidgeon's posts beyond "he wrote walls so he's town." Also comments on my case on him.

[Solar Wind]

Sweet. Ceph, if you are town, obvtown up your slot quickly and we'll steamroll the scum.

[Solar Wind]

Why does it feel necessarily town? I can plausibly see scum thinking like that.

[Solar Wind]

This post?

"I don't understand the lurker hate, but this guy, this guy over here, I don't like the way he be lurking and talking about it."

Mantis Scum=AP Scum.

[Solar Wind]

Take a look at how Tiphaine reacts to the growing pressure on mantis and ace.

Are you talking about where he votes Ace after Ace expressed concerns with AP forgetting about his previous concerns with AP/Mantis?

[Solar Wind]

AP, did you miss my question about you trolling?