Micro 382 - CREDIMVS PAVONI DEORVM (Game Over!)
-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 66, The Bulge wrote:In post 64, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:In post 60, Josh_B wrote:I was waiting on a game start PM.
@Mod - It might be worth sending a game start PM to Clusk and Shaded who are yet to post in the game.
I sent a Game Start PM to the entire playerlist. Clusk and Shaded both picked it up. They will be prodded this afternoon if they still haven't posted.
Hmm. I guess I missed it during the confusion we had.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 68, Scripten wrote:In post 65, TierShift wrote:I got gamestart pm tho
In post 63, Josh_B wrote:errgh, My need to play this game interrupts my need for vengeance.
VOTE: scripten
That scummy push was scummy.
Whayyyy
Sheepity sheepsheep.
Josh_B:Any original opinions? So far you've sheeped two players with your votes. (I think. Your first vote was accompanied by some nonsensical BS, so I don't know if you were trying to follow Tiershift or just have a vendetta(?). Is this more meta?)
I hope it's clear that I have a vendetta, because I said it. Did tiershift say the same thing I did? What makes you think that tiershift has a vendetta?
Tier shift, I thought you said WAY, not why.
Let's start with #11 Seems like he's taking the OMGUS comment seriously and acting defensively over it.
#17 what is going on here? This is the start of the push. We're barely off the first page, and he's already coming up with scum tells that look more contrived than convincing.
BBT says most of the things I was thinking in posts 29 and 31.
As far as scripten's explanation,
In post 35, Scripten wrote:I'll admit I was slightly under pressure later on.
It didn't seem like he was under pressure. It seems like he was being paranoid, oh 36 he was paranoid. Ok, let's drop it, but 41, nope still going to keep tunneling on this.
It doesn't look like scum hunting, it looks like a guy trying to push a shitty RVS case, that is going no where.
And Script, name calling isn't going to convince me to not vote you.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 72, Scripten wrote:bout it. Again, do you have anything original to say, or are you just going to regurgitate what's already been said?
I can't add any more originality to my sheep than this...
What else are you looking for, the exact points have already been made, and they are legit points. -Don't push shitty wagons against RVS posts, unless you want to be scum read. Generally town are more likely to question motivations before jumping to conclusions. In this case your motivations seem clear, and there's no reason to be all paranoid.
And, now that you know I have an issue with Vettrock, why are you still pushing that it was sheep? I don't care if Tier voted him first. But even more seriously, a wagon is going to start sometime, and not everyone can be on it first.
Let me bring up a point that I don't think has been mentioned yet.
In post 19, Scripten wrote:We're still in the VERY beginning of the game, so it's nothing strong.Still good for later.
Do you really plan on bringing this up later? Because it isn't strong at all, it's weak.
-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 95, Scripten wrote:I'm... not? I'm pushing that your vote/case on me is nothing but sheeping, and you're not denying it, are you? You're super concerned about your placement on a wagon, by the way.
Don't invent shit. This is a false attribution with no basis of any truth whatsoever.
Josh_B - I don't like that you have a score to settle.
I don't care whether you like it or not, it isn't for you.
I don't like that you're sheeping BBT as hard as you are.
Did BBT say that promising to bring up your weak push later was scummy too? Or is that not original enough
I really don't like that you're so concerned about your image that you'll switch wagons just to be on at the right time.
According to you, When is the right time exactly? Here is my image...
and it's not changing anytime soon.
If you say I'm not giving out original information and I give out original information, is that still sheeping. Maybe I should let BBT respond to your post first, and then I'll just say whatever he says exactly like you are accusing me of. Multiple people are capable of recognizing and calling out BS when BS is clearly presented, maybe you don't understand that part.
Or are you just trying to tie me to BBT? I really wish I could vote for you more times.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
Your story is changing. If you are town, and this is your normal playstyle, it's is going to lead to a lot of mislynches. If you are scum, carry on.
In post 102, Scripten wrote:In post 96, Josh_B wrote:
Don't invent shit. This is a false attribution with no basis of any truth whatsoever.
What part of the post you're quoting are you even referring to here? Are you or are you not denying that your case on me rests on sheeping BBT?
Yourcase rests on me sheeping BBT.Yourclaim is that I am sheeping BBT. My case is that I think you are scum.
It's hard for me to understand you asking me what I'm referring to. You made a statement, I closed your statement and responded to that part of the statement. Then I reopened your quote, closed it off again, and responded to that part. But to repeat myself in a more detailed manner.... I don't care about my placement on a wagon. Why would I? What would make you even suggest that I care I believe that you are randomly assigning negative attributes to me when you don't even know me.
My case on you is that you are horribly pushing a horrible case, being overly paranoid, making threats, calling names, and dismissing the evidence in favor of what you want to believe. I can provide for each of these.
If it affects the game, then I'm going to care about it. I'm not going to argue with you about whether or not your out-of-game shit matters, but vendettas are a great way to hurt the town. Defending yours just cements my case, though to your credit you haven't kept your vote on vettrock.
If I push a case against Vettrok, it's going to be because I actually think vettrok is scum in this game. I'm allowed to RVS, or not RVS anyone I want to. Vettrok matters to me because I want to get a read on him in this game, but as you admit, I'm not going to dismiss the game just because I have some things that I want to say to someone. Actually, I admitted to that- 63 :sigh:-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 96, Josh_B wrote:
Did BBT say that promising to bring up your weak push later was scummy too? Or is that not original enough
1.You have one factoid. 2.Congratulations, you are a super scum hunter. I can get you a star sticker if you want. 3.Still questioning how setting up a case for later is scummy at all, especiallu when there's been nothing prompting me to bring it up since. 4.Sorry I'm not operating entirely on confirmation bias, I guess?
1. I have multiple factoids. I'm just not going to repeat every single one of them over and over.
2. Thanks, I like stickers. I'll give you my address and you can mail it to me.
3. You're point was shitty, let it go. Don't bring it up later, or ever again. You don't need to throw past arguments in people's faces like it matters. If someone does something scummy later in the game, mention it. I've had people scum read me because I'll move on from something, find nothing else important, and then come back to an earlier comment. But I don't threaten people with nonsense.
That's dependent on the situation. I just find the following quote rather odd:
In post 94, Josh_B wrote:
But even more seriously, a wagon is going to start sometime, and not everyone can be on it first.
Where you are on the wagon doesn't matter. It's the case that set you up to take your vote, not where you sit on a wagon, that determines if I see you as sheeping or not. Willful ignorance of what constitutes sheeping?
Oh, good. This proves that you are just saying random crap to say it, and you either have no belief system or you aren't sticking to it. Because, earlier you said that I was super concerned about my placement on wagons, like it matters. Perhaps you are the one with willful ignorance of what constitutes sheeping.
I have done everything to prove that I have my own independent intent for both of my votes.
And BBT is neither a popular player, nor are you are you a popular wagon(yet),
I didn't vote for the sake of voting, or for the sake of following the herd.
I don't feel like my play is weak, and I have my own ideas about what to do.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
Anyway, BBT actually seems relatively town to me at the moment despite the butting of heads. You, on the other hand, are actively setting off my scum radar for the reasons that drove me to put my FoS on you before along with your reactions. Let's make this vote actually work toward something.
UNVOTE: BBT
VOTE: Josh_B
That's better.
Ok, so you had a problem with me. Why did you wait until someone else voted me before switching your vote? And what are you working toward? because I think your radar is broken.
Spoiler:-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
Can you please give more of an explanation? What did you decide was alignment indicative?-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 108, ShadedMelee wrote:forgot the game, will catch up soo
Don't feel too bad, It took me a minute to get started too.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p6149789
You said that I was sheeping BBT. -You still think that, whatever.
You said that I was sheeping TierShift- you recanted that piont.
You said that I was worried about my placement on a wagon. -I don't give a fuck about my placement on a wagon, Where did you get this idea from?
You said that tunneling on a person for out of game reasons was scummy -I haven't done that and you've recanted that point.
The bottom line comes down to whether or not I was actually sheeping BBT or if I had my own reasons to think that you are scum.You called me a sheep, I had my own reasons that I have expressed. The reasons have nothing to do with BBT, and everything to do with your play. That is not sheeping. And you are just pushing buzzwords.
My definition of sheeping would be a player saying "well player x thinks player y is scum, so I'm voting player y too." If you think that my reasoning for voting you hinges on BBT's vote or reasoning, you haven't been reading the game.
In post 110, Scripten wrote:It's your points, your case, that determine sheeping, not where you are on a wagon, so you bringing up where you sit on my wagon came off as strange to me.
I'm not the one that brought this up. You did. It's aFalse Attribution Error.
Here is where you are the one that made up this point.
We agree that this point is scummy. But it is scummy from the originator.In post 95, Scripten wrote:You're super concerned about your placement on a wagon, by the way.
I think this is the meat of the argument as it stands, but you asked me to respond to some other things too, I'll break it up to another post. And fuck these walls. If you are town, We are just shitting up the thread with nonsense.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 112, TierShift wrote:
It's the wording. It's not: "I scumread you for pushing wagons against RVS posts", it's: "you deserve to be scumread for pushing wagons against RVS posts". The first one shows he's (more or less) genuinely attacking the person, the second is looking for a justification for the vote.
Ok, so I'm understanding that Scripten has convinced you that I sheeped. I didn't. On the second point. I'm sorry that my wording on that wasn't the best. I'm thinking bigger picture here, and personal game beliefs. I can even link you to my own games where I've pushed shitty RVS wagons as scum, but I don't think I have any as town. Newb Scum push shitty RVS wagons -all day, everyday.
Your vote tells me that you are currently town reading Scripten. I'm going to have to meta search to see if he is normally this aggressive.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 110, Scripten wrote:
Nah, my case rests on the facts that I placed in my FoS that I put on you back here.(95) One part of that is that you're sheeping BBT. (The "original" facts you bring up I'll get to later.) There's also the vendetta, which is a null tell, since you said you wouldn't let it affect you and, as far as I can tell, have followed through. If that changes, though, I'll remember. Lastly, there's this (intentional(?)) misunderstanding you have about sheeping. It's your points, your case, that determine sheeping, not where you are on a wagon, soyou bringing up where you sit on my wagoncame off as strange to me. Scummy.
I wanted to know if you were referring to:
1) My comments that you were sheeping
2)My comments that you seemed concerned about wagon placement
I think you're maybe taking this game a little too personally.My comments aren't to show that you care about where you sit on a wagon. They are to show thatyou care about what others think about your placement on a wagon,seeing as you brought it up.
I'm pushing a horrible case? Where? BBT? I'm not pushing nearly as hard as you are, nor nearly as hard as he is.False Equivalence
3. Uhh... for one thing, it's not an argument. It was an observation. If Tiershift had continued to sheep BBT(proof of making the same unfounded accusations against other players)
WhatI said was that you were concerned about your placement on the wagon.This is true. However, the meat of my argument is thatyou're super concerned about where the town sees you on a wagon. I didn't accuse you of sheeping because you made a vote against me. I accused you because all of your points were the exact same as BBT's. Do you understand? (If it helps clear things up, separate my point about your sheeping with my point aboutyour concern over your wagon placement.)
The town will judge.ad populum
Contradictions, andfallacys. That make me think you are scum.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
It's scripten contradicting himself about who brought up the Idea that I care about my placement on the wagon. Looking over the post now, I didn't do a good job of coloring it correctly. And yellow marks logical fallacies.
I read over Scripten's first completed game, he was mostly inactive, but that was due to personal reasons, so activity from meta is null.
However, he was much more logical in that game. It was short game, and a perfect town, win led by Cabd, The first scum was caught on page 1. For most of the first DP, his vote was an OMGUS vote on Cabd who he later decided that he agreed with and moved scum to L-1 with his vote. Not much reasoning was given beyond the agreement with Cabd. In DP2, he was one of 3 FoS, and hammered scum even though he still thought Cabd was scum(admitted in endgame) despite Cabd being the D1 lynch driver.
So, reading that game, I know that Skripten understands that town are allowed to agree with each other, and that scum can be caught on Page 1. IMHO that means all of his accusations of sheeping are scum motivated.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 131, Scripten wrote:I don't know how much more clear I can be.
BBT:I'm quoting the part of Josh_B's post you were asking about again.
In post 94, Josh_B wrote:
But even more seriously, a wagon is going to start sometime, and not everyone can be on it first.
Now, let's try to clear this up. This part of the post sticks out because (Pay attention here, because I've said this before.): My case on Josh_B sheeping BBT rests on the points he is bringing up, not where he is on the wagon. It was strange for you to bring up when you jumped on the wagon, by excusing yourself for not being first, even though that had nothing to do with my accusations that you were sheeping BBT
Thank you for this clarification. The quote that you are using was part of my response to you saying that I was sheeping BBT with my understanding that your accusation was based on me being the second person to vote. Somebody has to be second, third, and so on. Any other interpretation is taking my statment out of context.
With that in mind, read the following carefully, please.
Josh_B, my problem is not about where you are on the wagon.[Issue Resolved if is stays resolved]My problem is not even that you are concerned about when you hopped on the wagon.[Issue Resloved, if it stays resolved]My problem is that you are concerned aboutwhere the town/other players see yougetting on the wagon[Not true, and previously refuted]. Like I said before, you're careful about crafting an image that you aren't too quick or too slow to jump on a wagon[Again not true, evidence show that I jumped on your wagon very quickly after my first post. You aren't being objective, and there is no evidence that I am either slow or not slow to jump on a wagon, so your entire statement is false. Any who, wagon placement isn't something that you can really call a tell until there's a flip, which can be used as supporting evidence, but not as a full justification]. Does that clear this up? I seriously can not be any more clear.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
You know these quote wall arguments keep everyone else in the game from having solid reads? And they are keeping me from getting solid reads on other players? Can we just stop? I'm stopping. If you quote wall at me again, I'm not going to respond. I'm going to just let it sit empty. Even in this wall, I'm probably not going to say anything that I haven't already said. So to help out fellow town....
Spoiler: Wasted Space-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
Scripten, I don't think your suspected towniness had as much to do with your actions as they did with wolfy's.
Solid town? Seriously?
Wolfy, I think it's fair that you used the tone of my response to decide on my alignment, you didn't answer the question about what made you decide on alignment in the first place.
And I can see a vote on Mr.E, but there really isn't any pressure on him, or much interactions to justify a vote, so right now your vote looks terrible, can you explain it. Maybe I'll do that PbPA and see what he has to say about it. But later, when I get off work.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 176, Josh_B wrote:Scripten, I don't think your suspected towniness had as much to do with your actions as they did with wolfy's.
Solid town? Seriously? 141
Wolfy, I think it's fair that you used the tone of my response to decide on my alignment, you didn't answer the question about what made you decide on alignment in the first place. 123, 111
And I can see a vote on Mr.E, but there really isn't any pressure on him, or much interactions to justify a vote, so right now your vote looks terrible, can you explain it? 141Maybe I'll do that PbPA133 and see what he has to say about it. But later, when I get off work.
Is that better?-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
scripten, I think you are hunting for reads because you want to know who to NK. I don't think reads are good right now, and I'd like you to have to shoot in the dark.
This isn't my normal stance, I'll admit, but the question you are asking BBT right now seems like the same question you asked Vettrok. Since scum have to fabricate their reads, we're about one second from going into NP, and we still have players MIA.
At this point it probably won't do anyone any good to give reads until after the flip.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
I don't have a problem with wolfy, giving his reads. Wolfy is about to die, and "welcome Asher, I see that you are going quick wagon for no reason, please say something about that"
Let me be honest, I'm not hammering Wolfy right now because his vote on me was something that I would do if two other players were arguing in circles about irrelevant useless crap that really wasn't all that alignment indicative. I still think that Skripten is pretty scummy. He and BBT both abandoned their biggest read to ratchet up wolfy so fast.
I don't necessarily think that it's scummy for a person to ask for other people to give their reads. I think that it's scummy for a person to not give their reads, while calling out others for not doing the same. I think it has to do with the NK WIFOM question that he asked vettrok earlier. It was pretty off topic and loaded. What's a person going to say to that? I didn't find vettrok's answer all that scummy. I mean it was (paraphrasing here) "If I was scum, I'd play to my wincon" and isn't that what everyone would do? I don't see how it could indicate alignment. It does however follow with the odd questions that scripten keeps asking.
@BBT, with the actual stuff that's been going on in the game, and with the current state that we're in, I don't think this is the right time for reads. If you guys are town, I think you are looking for reads for no reason. If you guys are scum, collaborate with town so that you can hide in more WIFOM next DP. Get a good picture of where all of the town are at in this game so you can frame someone next DP.
scum have to fabricate their reads- standard game play
we are one second from going into NP- Wolfy is at L-1 and intent to hammer has been stated.
we still have players MIA- Not everyone has been involved in this game.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 251, Wake1 wrote:Josh_B
I've not been following the drama between Josh and Scripten. His content and engagement with the game makes me think Town, initially. Thewordiness makes my eyes bleed. I'll very tentatively put him in my Townlist. So now I'd like to know what his reads are; especially his reads on Vettrock.
Do you aim to go after Scripten today, Josh?
This is the general consensus. I usually use spoilers to reduce game clutter. However this time, I wanted everything that I said about scripten to be in my Iso. I don't plan on going after him today. I want to get better reads on other players. At this point, I think vetrock is probably town. It was really tough to watch him replace my slot in Marvel and see him be so uncertain about Vezok. That game is over now, so :problem solved, problem staying solved. Marvel was a huge roller coaster for me that started back in April. I did a lot to be conf town, so it was disappointing to watch vettrock allow so much uncertainty to build up around the slot without ever addressing it.
I like seeing the responses from Asher.
I still think scripten is scummy.
I had strong feelings at the start of DP1 that BBT is town
Tiershift is in my town pile
ShadedMelee was null, Wake seems to be town. The inclusion of Mr. Ree in his questions makes it rather obvious that he planned to question him before he died, and therefore had expectations of him being in DP2.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 265, TierShift wrote:That last part on wake is not a towntell.
Who do you want to pursue today?
Specifically because it's wake, or are you just saying "not in general"-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 267, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
In post 264, Josh_B wrote:
This is the general consensus. I usually use spoilers to reduce game clutter. However this time, I wanted everything that I said about scripten to be in my Iso. I don't plan on going after him today.I want to get better reads on other players.
I like seeing the responses from Asher.
I still think scripten is scummy.
I had strong feelings at the start of DP1 that BBT is town
Tiershift is in my town pile
ShadedMelee was null, Wake seems to be town. The inclusion of Mr. Ree in his questions makes it rather obvious that he planned to question him before he died, and therefore had expectations of him being in DP2.
Just to clarify; your town-read on Vettrock is based on meta, right?
Your reads list is strange. You had strong feelings I was town at start of D1, how about now? Has that changed?
I guess meta. There isn't a lot in this game to go on. His comments about his general strategy aren't specifically related to this game. 236 seems reasonably town.
.. Less strong.
You're town-reading everyone in the game except Scripten; who you're not going to pursue today. So, what exactly are you planning on doing for D2?
Not true, and I bolded my plans in purple. So you can see them better.
Also;
Vettrock and Josh_B- Can you explain what made you so sure Wolfy was town? Also, given that you both thought he was town, why did neither of you try to defend him? You both just let the wagon and lynch happen whilst subtly stating you thought he was town.
The scumminess of the wagon outwieghed the scumminess of the player. I never stated that he was town. now let me ask you this question. At the beginning of the game, you defended yourself from scripten over the OMGUS on Wolfy. But when Wolfy came in, it seems like you didn't even give him a chance before you started saying he was scum and getting scripten to vote him. Why not? I could see how if wolfy flipped scum, you could solidify your opinion of scripten. But I can't see it with wolfy being town. From my POV, scripten looked very opportunistic. Although at this point I will admit that I'm probably in a confbias loop of his behavior.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
BBT, Wolfy did not flip scum. Yet your reads still seem to follow that wolfy was scum. 142 was my point, you instantly voted him.
Maybe I read your question wrong.
Wolfy said he made a reaction test. Scum do not need reaction tests. That is moderately alignment indicative.
The relation that I'm making is not about Wolfy. It's on your town read of scripten even though wolfy wasn't scum. Don't you think that it's more likely that scum would be scum jumping on an opportunity wagon?
and you are twisting my words. I said "I like seeing the responses from Asher." Not that I like the responses from Asher.
Also, there were at least three townies on the wolfy wagon. With Mr.Ree dead, there are at least two left. Let's find out who they are.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 286, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:You keep pushing the idea that the wagon should be analyzed for scum. Indeed, it usually would and I would usually do that too. However, if you're scum, you're banking on people analyzing a wagon that was on a townie. I mean, how can there be no scum on a townie mislynch right? But, I feel it was an all town lynch. Killing one townie on the wagon leaves a narrower pool for town to lynch from again because that would be the natural progression for the game.
I could be wrong. Hell, there could be two scum on that wagon. I just don't see it though. I've never seen somebody act so scummy who flipped town. Never. The fact that neither you or Vettrock even considered that Wolfy could be scum really doesn't sit right with me.
I considered that wolfy might be scum. But him not being scum means something different than him actually being scum. I've considered the off wagoners. Myself, Shaded, and Vettrock. In order for both scum to be off the wagon, it has to be vettrock and wake. Both seem town to me, so scum is probably not off the wagon.
VOTE: asher-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 286, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I don't think I have switched 'erratically'. I have tried my best to explain how my read developed; I can't do anymore than that.
Nor should you. The accusation was still presented.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 286, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I've never seen somebody act so scummy who flipped town. Never.
I have, and now you have. How do you feel about that?-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 286, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:You agree? What part are you agreeing with? It's obvious now that it was bad town play, so on D1, by this thought process you should have seen it as scummy play, no? This is what I don't understand
The reaction test was townie. Some of the other things, not so much. Obviously I couldn't have known if was bad town play or scum play. But I do know now, and I'm trying to move forward with that new information. This point seems to be where we are having a disconnect. I'm looking at Wolfy who died from being a VI. You still seem to be trying to prove that Wolfy was scum.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 291, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Are you proposing a Scripten/Asher scum-team?
Maybe. We'll see. Are you proposing a Josh/vettrok scum team?-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
Teirshift,
Spoiler: another spoiler because it's fun to make spoilers and most of theinformation is already in the game
You know, all those pages and I still don't know what the whole point of the sheeping thing was except to call me scummy over something rediculous. I agree'd with BBT at the beginning of the game, if you want to call that a sheep, call it a sheep whatever. But that's a pretty weak case.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 296, Scripten wrote:Josh_B: You seem to think that wolfy's play was ambiguously scummy. That is, you felt that he was just playing poorly as town rather than acting scummily. That doesn't really explain why you didn't try to stop his lynch and, despite not voting for him, didn't seem to have much of a problem with it. I mean, you're acting now as if you were campaigning for him being town, which is just objectively untrue.
How the fuck was I supposed to stop his lynch? I didn't know what his alignment was. I know what it was now, that it. I didn't campaign for him as town, and I'm sorry if I am comming off like that. There are two different points in time that we are talking about and perhaps what I'm saying about each point in time is getting mixed together.
Before the Lynch: I don't know if Wolfy is town or not.
After the Lynch: Wolfy was/is town. I know it for sure, and I'm going to treat it that way moving forward.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 301, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:.
I'm having a hard time responding to what you are saying because we don't agree on the premises.
You say that I was convinced that Wolfy was town, even though I wasn't. Your continued questions are based on me being convinced that Wolfy was town during DP1. Particularly "why didn't you try harder to stop the lynch?" And my answers is"I didn't know if he was or wasn't town."I'm sorry that I wasn't utterly convinced that he was scum, the way you were. I also think that you are trying to push this issue that I should have been convinced one way or the other, or that I was convinced of something that I wasn't.
And fuck.. I'm losing posts.Last edited by The Bulge on Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 313, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I believe this quote makes more sense if you add;
In post 237, Josh_B wrote:
Let me be honest, I'm not hammering Wolfy right now because his vote on me was something that I would do if I was town and two other players were arguing in circles about irrelevant useless crap that really wasn't all that alignment indicative.
That's how I am reading that quote. Correct me if I'm wrong and explain what you mean when you say 'it's something you would do'.
That's that twisty manipulative bullshit, you can't read it the way I wrote it cause it doesn't fit your agenda. How does it make more sense by you adding in some outlandish flim-flam?-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 315, TierShift wrote:Your townread on scripten was based on his willingness to vote scum (wolfy). Now that this scum flipped town, does that affect your scripten read?
Thanks asking this Tiershift. Maybe he'll respond if you ask him.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 315, TierShift wrote:Noting that josh abstained from commenting on the thing that mattered at the time: the wolfy wagon.
What do you expect tiershift? I had no idea that that Asher was going to put him at L-1 and Mr. Ree was going to throw down the intent to hammer so fast. I was just talking to this guy wanting to figure out where his mind was, and there's BBT all like "QUICK! Jump on this wagon with me!", "QUICK! Throw down the hammer!"-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 327, TierShift wrote:Josh, the wolfy wagon was where the focus was at that moment. Are you denying that?
are you asking if the focus was on the wagon itself? I haven't considered that before. So I say no. The focus was on wolfy's behavior, not the wagon itself.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 318, TierShift wrote:
In post 275, Josh_B wrote:
The scumminess of the wagon outwieghed the scumminess of the player.
What made the wagon scummy?
In post 219, Josh_B wrote:we're about one second from going into NP, and we still have players MIA.
Answered.
From my POV, scripten looked very opportunistic. Although at this point I will admit that I'm probably in a confbias loop of his behavior.
Why do you think you are in confbias? How does that affect your read on scripten?
1. I spent all of DP1 arguing with him about his scuminess. 2.
-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 324, Scripten wrote:In post 322, Josh_B wrote:
That's that twisty manipulative bullshit, you can't read it the way I wrote it cause it doesn't fit your agenda. How does it make more sense by you adding in some outlandish flim-flam?
So a statement made in the context of you being town is outlandish flim-flam. Are you even trying? This is L-1. Perhaps you can try answering questions instead of weaseling around them?
VOTE: Josh_B
If Josh_B flips scum, I'm going to say vettrock is his partner. If I'm wrong, Vettrock, please come out of the woodwork and help us scumhunt instead of lurking like you have been all game.
Do you even know what you just said?
Confirmation bias broken.
The statement was already in the context of me being town. The "if I were town" addition puts it into the context of me not being town.
Is "are you even trying" a real question? Or is it just a put down disguised as a question meant to insinuate that the person you are talking to isn't actually trying? And is it because that person actually isn't trying, or is it because you are a person that likes to degrade the performance of others to make you feel better about yourself?
Welcome Newb Scum.
Scripten-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 335, Wake1 wrote:I'm thinking Scripten and BBT/Tiershift if Josh flips Town..
Do you really need to have my flip for that?-
-
Josh_B
-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 338, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Hi Josh;
In post 329, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
I asked you to correct me if I'm wrong. Can you correct me? What did you mean by that statement?
Answer my question first
In post 322, Josh_B wrote:That's that twisty manipulative bullshit, you can't read it the way I wrote it cause it doesn't fit your agenda. How does it make more sense by you adding in some outlandish flim-flam?-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 342, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:It looks like a slip.
When you add in words to what I said, I think I can see how you could turn it into a slip.
And since I already answered your question...
In post 277, Josh_B wrote:Wolfy said he made a reaction test. Scum do not need reaction tests. That is moderately alignment indicative.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 348, TierShift wrote:Can you talk about wake and vettrock being town?
Sure....
In post 264, Josh_B wrote:At this point, I think vetrock is probably town. It was really tough to watch him replace my slot in Marvel and see him be so uncertain about Vezok. That game is over now, so :problem solved, problem staying solved. Marvel was a huge roller coaster for me that started back in April. I did a lot to be conf town, so it was disappointing to watch vettrock allow so much uncertainty to build up around the slot without ever addressing it.
In post 275, Josh_B wrote:I guess meta. There isn't a lot in this game to go on. His comments about his general strategy aren't specifically related to this game. 236 seems reasonably town.
In post 264, Josh_B wrote:ShadedMelee was null, Wake seems to be town. The inclusion of Mr. Ree in his questions makes it rather obvious that he planned to question him before he died, and therefore had expectations of him being in DP2.
Now you talk about wake and vettrock.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 348, TierShift wrote:All right, that's just semantics.
Then what were you really talking about?-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
The beginning of my attempt to read wolfy
The end
I didn't know if he was lying or not lying/town or not town. It didn't matter anymore. -spiderman, fukitol.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 358, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Please see the quote from my 355.
Were you, or were you not, town reading Wolfy. It's a yes or no question.
It's a loaded question, with a false dichotomy. I hadNO READon wolfy.
I attempted to engage him, 12 posts later he was at l-1 with the intent to hammer already stated. He was doing whatever the fuck it was that he was doing, and it really didn't matter to me anymore. End of story. I've said this a lot of times. I don't know why you keep asking me, or what kind of answer you are trying to get out of me, but that's it. How long do you plan on tunneling this?-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
Teirshift, that was the case that BBT was trying to push.
I gave some consideration to the possibility that wolfy was town, and now he's the towniest town to ever town in this game.
BBT/Scripten= scum team.
I'll move my vote to either. It is on scripten now. Wake, Tiershift,Asher, Vettrock, who do you want to lynch first?
pedit: Asher?-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 364, Asher Kendrell wrote:I'll be blunt, I feel like Josh is digging himself into a hole here. I'm with scripten and bbt. I'm not liking how vettrock only comes in to defend him.
VOTE: Josh_B
Are you going to follow scripten and BBT again?
Ok, 2 1/2 myslynches. If either scripten or BBT are not scum, Lynch Asher in lylo.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 368, Scripten wrote:In post 367, Josh_B wrote:
Ok, 2 1/2 myslynches. If either scripten or BBT are not scum, Lynch Asher in lylo.
2 1/2 mislynches? What does this mean?
IC POST FOR THE NEWB:This is a reference to the 9 player game standard. Scum have to get three mislynches to win. Town is allowed 2 mislynches without losing. There is already one mislynch, so we really only have one mislynch left. I don't think we need that extra cushion at this point, but It is what it is.-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
In post 370, Scripten wrote:You should be confronting your vote target with a case that they can respond to and either exonerate themselves or dig deeper.
Who made up this rule?-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
Let's start with Scripten.
He Starts the game spouting off buzzwords like they are going out of style. OMGUS, Buddying(both tiershift and BBT), accusing of deflection, complaining about overposting, (like it's some sort of big issue)
and admits to becomeing quickly paranoid over one vote.
In the words of Pidgey, that seems like a little "throw some dirt and see if it sticks" Maybe Scripten is just pointing out what he sees, and I don't see it. But his attributions look like he's just trying to tag anything he can with a scum tell. It is more contrived that convincing
He does at times say things that I agree with...
In post 28, Scripten wrote:quicklynching is a waste of an entire day's worth of information.
But when it comes to actually following through with whathebelieves.. I think the Wolfy wagon proves otherwise.
148: Fos Wolfy which is ok, he asks him some questions about his play, but he doesn't let him answer, 150he's on the wagon because BBT told him to 149.
Let's say that Scripten is really, looking for sheeping, like he was accusing of in 68 Did he miss 147 Tiershift doesn't even make a claim of a case or an attempt of one at all. Maybe I understand where scripten is coming from "votes against me"= "sheeping." "Votes against other players"= A ok.
He also says some other things that are interestingIn post 174, Scripten wrote:It's because you're pushing every single read you get like there's no tomorrow. It is scummy to me, but I'm reading town from you for everything else.
Scripten, What is "everything else?" You're only comment of BBT being town was "BBT actually seems relatively town to me at the moment despite the butting of heads.102"
Scripten, I didn't respond to this statement because I agree with it as matter of fact.In post 345, Scripten wrote:Scum can fake reaction tests.
It is absolutely true that scum have to fake it. Scum fake it because it's something town would do. I don't automatically assume that just because someone does it that they are town with out some more feed back from that player. I never got any feed back, and I tried twice.
/break-
-
Josh_B Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: April 1, 2014
BBT,
I am absolutely not convinced about your read flip on Scripten. At this time the Wolfy wagon was clearly an opportunity lynch.
Your interest in quicklynching, absoluteness of alignments, and erratic read shifts are concerning. I'm not the first one to point it out, and I'm sure that I won't be the last one.
You surely tunneled the eggs out of me to invent your case. I didn't give wolfy a read, to me he was already dead before he even had a chance to answer any questions. If there ever was an antitown lynch as clever as Mr Mistoffolees That was it. There wasn't any information to go on except that he was flustered and not answering any questions. As far as D1 lynches go, I suppose that's good enough, but wow on how sure you were. Did you even blink when he flipped town?
This question that you asked, I've already answered. But I feel the need to keep repeating myself, because of how many times it was asked to me and the answer doesn't seem to be clear to other players.
-