Micro 382 - CREDIMVS PAVONI DEORVM (Game Over!)

[Wake1]

Oh and wake, another thing: avoid arguments.

I took adding ree mostly as a non-cop slip

That's tough.

People be calling you Scummy for anything: even ridiculous things or making them up.

I don't know how to parry that without arguing it.

[TierShift]

Damn it now I'm mad.

I DID see BBT's crumb but I didn't believe it because Scripten was Scummy in my book.

Cop results>anything

And if scripten turned out to be scum, you could have blamed BBT

This was the one, TS.

Aw I kinda feel really bad for Wake. You could tell at the beginning of the game that he was really trying to improve (and doing a good job at it). He even had the correct scumteam nailed in one of his posts. But now he's second guessing himself.

Apparently I meant Bulge instead.

Where did you peg us, then?

[TierShift]

Oh and wake, another thing: avoid arguments.

I took adding ree mostly as a non-cop slip

That's tough.

People be calling you Scummy for anything: even ridiculous things or making them up.

I don't know how to parry that without arguing it.

Say: 'that's ridiculous, you're making this up. Can you point to where I said this?'

Instead of getting into an argument, the other player will now show you how he interpreted your post wrongly and then you can say: 'but I meant this'. From the other player's reaction you can even get a read on him.

Avoid arguments at all costs, really.

[Wake1]

Conciseness

Wake, the most important thing you should be working on is choosing the subjects of your focus and conciseness. I see a lot of posts discussing trivial things, like RVS behaviour and thoughts when making certain posts.

As a rule of thumb, it's a good idea to only ask questions if the answer will help you to better form a read on someone. So do it when a post seems weird, out of context or when you don't understand a vote, for example. I'd say at least 3/4 of your questions only helped to clutter up the thread.

Don't answer or ask questions over multiple paragraphs. Keep it short. Walls stink. They are toxic to any town.

Reasons for voting

Don't focus on people antagonising you. I've seen you do this in multiple games. They're not scummy for antagonising you; in fact, they aren't afraid of you voting them and thus more likely town. Your vote on me was for crap reasons (saying somethkng fluffy) and I don't know what your rationale for voting scripten was, but it was a bad vote. The guys disagreeing with you are probably more town than the guys agreeing with you. Important to remember!

Don't quickvote in LyLo

Profit

Even worse because claims weren't out yet, I think.

So I should better choose the subject of my focus? I don't know which one should take priority, considering circumstances. By concise do you mean less wordy, but the same info?

Do you know of any players who do that a lot? If you know of at least one I'd appreciate following and learning that way of playing.

Yeah, I think I should making walls. I put a lot of my time, energy, and good-will into them and it rarely pays off.

I'll have to keep that in mind about the reasons for voting. Asher agreed with me a bit too much. YET, in past games, some say I tore apart and lynched those who'd agree with me too much. Hm. If they vote for me because they aren't afraid, then as you say it's reasonable to think they're selfless Town.

[Wake1]

Damn it now I'm mad.

I DID see BBT's crumb but I didn't believe it because Scripten was Scummy in my book.

Cop results>anything

And if scripten turned out to be scum, you could have blamed BBT

This was the one, TS.

Aw I kinda feel really bad for Wake. You could tell at the beginning of the game that he was really trying to improve (and doing a good job at it). He even had the correct scumteam nailed in one of his posts. But now he's second guessing himself.

Apparently I meant Bulge instead.

Where did you peg us, then?

I'll be doing that from now on. And if the Cop knowingly misleads the Town with his crumbs then the onus would be on him.

I don't know, but I'd sure like to know.

[Wake1]

Oh and wake, another thing: avoid arguments.

I took adding ree mostly as a non-cop slip

That's tough.

People be calling you Scummy for anything: even ridiculous things or making them up.

I don't know how to parry that without arguing it.

Say: 'that's ridiculous, you're making this up. Can you point to where I said this?'

Instead of getting into an argument, the other player will now show you how he interpreted your post wrongly and then you can say: 'but I meant this'. From the other player's reaction you can even get a read on him.

Avoid arguments at all costs, really.

I tend to think of Mafia as mental swordplay, where each conscious move of your thoughts are like the swings, parries, and thrusts of an iron sword.

What are some other things I should say in order to deflect attacks as Town?

I noted Scripten's "Also, that response is incredibly empty. HOW am I scummy?" as pretty good.

OK, now I'm liking your advice quite a bit. If you would, would you please elaborate more on these techniques and strategies? I want to start practicing this more often, until it becomes easy.

[TierShift]

About conciseness, let's take an example. Your very first post about BBT is lengthy.

I would change it into this and not lose valuable info:
BBT seems to certain in his reads; it comes off as fake, especially when they change so much. When scripten jumps onto wolfy, he follows him.

In fact, scripten and BBT follow much of the same trajectory and I'm having a hard time reading them.
BBT, I'm interested in hearing about your strong scumread on scripten flipping to a townread. Can you give full reads too?

That's about 5x shorter and omits very little, if anything of relevance.
I don't know what you're talking about with: 'can you show me players who play like this'.

[TierShift]

You shouldn't deflect attacks, you should invalidate them. Explain why the attack is wrong. Don't fight the attacker. If they make a fair point, acknowledge it. Refute what's wrong. Then continue with your scum targets.

[TierShift]

And there probably will be players purposefully antagonising you. Ignore them.

[Wake1]

Thanks, TS.

Do you know of any players who parry well by not arguing, but asking questions like the one you mentioned?

I want to know what other things I should say in response in order to avoid arguments.

[Wake1]

You shouldn't deflect attacks, you should invalidate them. Explain why the attack is wrong. Don't fight the attacker. If they make a fair point, acknowledge it. Refute what's wrong. Then continue with your scum targets.

By attacks I meant players (Town or Scum) trying to dump suspicion on me or say I'm Scum. (I should ignore players who personally attack me, too.)

I'm going to try practicing this for the next game.

[TierShift]

Well, uh, I guess I qualify as one of those players? When someone makes a faulty argument against me, I try to pick out the holes in their reasoning. If the one attacking me is town, they'll probably realise their logic is faulty.

[TierShift]

I don't have other examples for you atm, wake. Talk to me when you got your ass into another argument.

Why did you vote scripten, btw?

[The Bulge]

Hm. I must have mixed Wake with someone else. Or maybe nobody ever correctly called the scum-team and I'm just crazy.

[Scripten]

Hey guys! Great game, especially for Tiershift. I was townreading you hard the whole game. Any advice for sorry old me?

[TierShift]

Not much. Just the same thing I said to BBT: if everyone's agreeing with you, something is wrong.

And there's useful info in the post directed at the whole town.

I thought you were a big newb at first with the stpuid questions, but you did a good job afterwards. You should probably have listened to josh before he was dying.

[Wake1]

I don't have other examples for you atm, wake. Talk to me when you got your ass into another argument.

Why did you vote scripten, btw?

Understood.

Just some of his posts rang hollow. I learned to sense that when I caught AdrienC as Scum for being hollow, which won the game.

That, and the stressful Josh_B wagon him and Vet made it really tough. I saw him as deliberately making a tough situation for a townie to make, thus creating an easy mislynch target for the win next day.

[Wake1]

No hard feelings, Scripten.

[TierShift]

That doesn't translate in a super strong scumread.

[Josh_B]

Wake, I really liked the way you replaced in. I'm going to use it in all the games that I replace into.
I read "Blah, blah, blah on everything that happened, but I want to get my own reads." It was dangnear the only time that tiershift was ever scrutinized at all.

Scripten, good job on picking up the crumbs from BBT. Those were real crumbs that you would expect to see from a town cop. I hope you aren't beating yourself up for trusting them, and you should continue to trust stuff like that in the future.- just not from BBT.

Oh my gosh, there was A LOT of misleading actions in this game. Especially from Scripten, and BBT. I mentioned in the deadPT, BBT read flipping on Scripten D1, while calling Wolfy a scum for thinking that Me and Scripten were town. But Scripten took the cake. We spend like ten pages talking about sheeping, yet all he did was sheep. Now I may be the wizard of wifom, but this guy is like an unsheared ewe. I thought that this post was TOXIC.

My only regret this game was not moving my vote back to Asher during the Arctic Game Freeze while Scripten contemplated hammering. But BBT was pretty scummy. IMO Scripten actually gained some town cred for the null hammer. Nearly everyone suspected Asher, yet he never got the votes he deserved. At some point it should have been obvious that scum couldn't hammer me. I think I should have played that more too.

Ugh, BBT was not scum hunting AT ALL. When I asked him about it,

I'd like to know why you aren't really interacting with Asher to get a better read on him, since you think he might be scum on the wagon.
Or if think that both scum are off the wagon, what are you doing to get a better read on vettrock and wake?

He said 'Nothing, I'm just tunneling on you.' And my scum radar pinged so hard that it really did break. Scum never need to get reads-evar.

Tiershift, I thought your continued FOS on Asher throughout was epic when I found out that you and him were on the scum team together. It started with a "WTF is this?" that grew very steadily and felt really townish. It wasn't the all of a sudden, "look at me I'm adding my partner into my scumreads so I can WK off of him later, lol" that I'm used to.

TheBulge, thanks for Modding. I'm surprised that you didn't give a 24 hour extension when you announced Wake as a replacement, you might as well have named him an IC. I didn't say this part during the game because I didn't think it was fair. Plus, I found other in game content that gave a me a town read on Wake. A mod extending the NP by 24 hours isn't as alignment indicative to me as a mod not extending the NP. It's usually a common courtesy to extend the NP for a scum replacement, but it can be arbitrarily implemented anytime a player replaces during NP.
Modus Tollens: If the Mod did not extend the NP for a scum replacement, the mod is a jerk. The mod is not a jerk, therefore the replacement is not scum. (Oh man, I'm thirsty right now)

Any other thoughts that I have about this game, I put in the DeadQT.

P.edit- a whole page went by while I was typing this.

[Wake1]

That doesn't translate in a super strong scumread.

I need a list of bona-fide Scumtells.

In many games I've played in people have called me Scum for absolutely ridiculous things, and then others disagree and then fights happen. What do I do to be virtually unable to be Scumread as Town, and what exactly do I look for when it comes to Scumtells?

It's an odd question, considering I've been playing for so long.

[TierShift]

Tiershift, I thought your continued FOS on Asher throughout was epic when I found out that you and him were on the scum team together. It started with a "WTF is this?" that grew very steadily and felt really townish. It wasn't the all of a sudden, "look at me I'm adding my partner into my scumreads so I can WK off of him later, lol" that I'm used to.

Thanks. I hate bussing but couldn't add him into my townreads, so I tried to go for the best.

[Wake1]

Wake, I really liked the way you replaced in. I'm going to use it in all the games that I replace into.
I read "Blah, blah, blah on everything that happened, but I want to get my own reads." It was dangnear the only time that tiershift was ever scrutinized at all.

That tuckered me out really quickly. It takes energy, which is tough when you're already drained.

I'm modding two games atm, have had a hectic work schedule, and have been playing in a game,

It's tough to do that when you're spread thin. I keep trying to reboot my style, too.

[Wake1]

...and I haven't been using my

Annihilator Beam

lately, either...

[Wake1]

Hell, I forgot where I put it.