Micro 377: Vengeballs. OVER!!!

[Dr Pants]

/confirm

[Dr Pants]

VOTE: ZZZX

[Dr Pants]

no its Csareo and Espresso

they earn the RVS scum reads

[Dr Pants]

"we need to take our time and make sure to hit scum"

"random vote"

"join my wagon"

do you see how these statements don't match?

[Dr Pants]

yeah lets start

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Csareo

[Dr Pants]

yeah as far as you go, you didn't RVS vote, so you earn a scum read

and no, voting everyone then unvoting isn't an RVS vote

[Dr Pants]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Espresso

I've seen enough. There's no way Espresso isn't scum. If I get a venge kill and he's alive, I will kill him regardless of what anyone else thinks.

@ Skelda: I don't have authority to say what is good and what is bad in this game. I only have my opinion, and that is what I'm using. Feel free to agree or disagree.

[Dr Pants]

thats fine, I'll take the shot then

note worthy: I just played 2 games with town espresso. this is not town espresso

[Dr Pants]

truthfully, yes

Espresso didn't play the same way in both town games. But when he was under pressure, he consistently had 2 kinds of responses: frustration/paranoia and defeat. He has never, ever, gone for the jokey sarcastic route. He also knows me well enough to know that my scum read on him was serious. He has also never been this eager to talk setup strategy. Right now he looks spastic, he isn't pushing for any scum at all, is only talking setup, and is defending my read on him with sarcastic posts admitting he's scum.

pedit: oh boo hoo, threats are anti-town, no way could the majority ever be wrong, especially when almost half the town is scum

[Dr Pants]

from just a baseline, there's a 50-50 chance that Espresso is scum. this alone strengthens my read considerably

[Dr Pants]

One thing more, pants: you were also wrong about my being scum in those two games I was town. If you're so sure you can use both of those games as evidence against me, why have you not considered this?

Has anyone ever told you the definition of insanity?

lol what. by the end of day 1 in both games i was town reading you

[Dr Pants]

no, but you straight up lied
in 2 previous games, I ended up getting a correct read on you before the end of the first day
in the last game, i even stopped you from getting mislynched
so your suggestion that I'm bad at reading you is incorrect

[Dr Pants]

oh
well i misunderstood then
my bad

[Dr Pants]

the idea that aggressive scum hunting play is coming from scum is stupid
why?
because scum doesnt want to get hit by vengeballs
best scum play is to stay quiet and get town read

[Dr Pants]

did you win?

[Dr Pants]

right
so as scum, the goal is to avoid being lynched and balled
scum wins by playing conservatively

[Dr Pants]

if scum plays sub-optimally on purpose than its a win for town

plus, if you know what scum is likely to do, then all you have to do is look for who is doing it

btw though, that post was the equivalent of a prod dodge. add that you are scum reading me and voting me, but finding my actions pro town, and I think you go in the scummy pile.

[Dr Pants]

The above comment is something scum would say.

It's the naked truth. Why do you say it's scummy?

And do you seriously suggest we should stfu about our scumreads like scared little lambs? You've just layed bare your insanity. Your proposition is stripped of rationale. Nude madness! Unless of course you're overeager scum caught with his pants down. Have you just unveiled your scummy penis?!

More info is needed to unveil what's going on with you, sir.

yeah so you are for sure scum as well

like seriously this looks like your just twirling your scum mustache and cackling evilly while you write this

[Dr Pants]

I like Csareo's theory, and I agree with it for the most part. I think my goal this game is to take a really strong stance against lurkers, and try to get people as active as possible. The absolute best thing we can do is get the scum teams hunting eachother early for town cred.

[Dr Pants]

its espresso

its obviously espresso

[Dr Pants]

hes taking the game way too casually to be scum hunting

him and naked jogger

wheres the paranoia? wheres the fear of messing up for your team, composed of members you aren't supposed to know?

[Dr Pants]

no, instead everything is a bad joke or a pun

how can they be so calm? its not like they're actually scum hunting

[Dr Pants]

thinking about it, i think the best thing for this game is to be transparent about town reads, and to highly encourage activity

scum reads are going to fluctuate a bit, but keeping a consistent track of who is town (ie actively town), who is scummy (actively scummy), and who is lurking, is going to end up being important.

the fact that we haven't heard anything really from clusk and ZZZX makes me worry, especially ZZZX.

[Dr Pants]

lol he was saying you spelled awkward wrong

[Dr Pants]

Espresso, who is your top scum read this second

no argument, no nothing, just the name

[Dr Pants]

also feel better soon, drink lots of tea and stuff

[Dr Pants]

nah thats all i need, thanks

[Dr Pants]

you shouldnt

hes known for playing well as lurky scum

i think hes scum and clusk is town amongst the lurkers

my scum reads currently are espresso, skelda, naked jogger, and aphix. zzzx is worrying because hes lurking, but he hasn't done anything "scummy"

[Dr Pants]

reads on nj and espresso have reasons, reads on you and skelda are pure gut

[Dr Pants]

well then thats your opinion

i scum hunt mostly by reacting to things. i see things, i react. this gives me flash reads which strengthen or weaken as the game goes on. eventually, i see something that pings a strong scum tell and i hunt that person into the ground. but if i dont push people early, then i dont get the content i need to put together a good case later.

[Dr Pants]

As for Pants, I don't know. He could go either way for me. If he is scum, I definitely see him as a Goon though, so I don't think I plan on pushing his lynch, at least not today.

eh what
so i could be scum, but you arent going to hunt me because if im scum im a goon? how does that make any sense?

[Dr Pants]

having a "goon" read is stupid

if you think someone is scum, you should lynch them. you have no way to know whether or not they are a godfather, and trying to hunt for the godfather instead means town is looking for 2 players instead of 4. its bad strategy.

[Dr Pants]

And how exactly are you gonna separate your scumreads into Godfather and Goon categories? Do you think the Godfather will be more careful in his play?

Depends on the person. Some people are loud and obnoxious no matter what, which might be the case with Pants here.

This is the case with me. I am physically unable to not be loud when I play.

now, yes it is better for godfathers to get lynched. but the best way to do this is to hunt scum normally, and hope your scum read flips godfather. if they flip goon, thats still better than a town lynch.

its like your saying "i cant scum hunt for just anyone, i gotta make sure i lynch the scum PR!" in a game where such a statement would fit the setup. its a bad way to scum hunt

[Dr Pants]

conf scum every day

every scum you lynch increases your chances of winning, taking a risk and hoping for a 2 for 1 could lose you the game

[Dr Pants]

its as simple as that

all i want is to avoid lynching town, i dont care at all whether i lynch a godfather or a goon

[Dr Pants]

i have a strategy idea:

if you are town, and you get lynched, vengekill the scummiest person who isnt on your wagon

heres why:

4 scum, 9 player pool
majority vote is 5 players
if a town player is lynched first, then we have a

5 player group and a 3 player group

if the lynchee vengekills within the 5 player group and misses, all we can know is that there is at least 1 scum in the 5 player group
if the lynchee vengekills within the 5 player group and hits scum, we have no idea of the distribution of the rest of the scum

if the lynchee vengekills within the 3 player group and misses, we know there is at least 2 scum in the 5 player group
if the lynchee vengekills within the 3 player group and hits scum, we know there is at least 1 scum in the 5 player group

so optimal day 1 play if we mislynch is to have the lynchee vengekill out of the 3 that didnt vote for them

day 2:
if we lynch scum day 1 or if scum is vengekilled, we do the same plan with smaller sets
if we mislynch and the vengekill misses, we lynch someone from within the 5 person pool from the previous day. we would know at least 2 are scum, so odds of hitting scum are good. if we mislynch there, then the vengekill should go one of the 2 players remaining from the 3 player group from day 1. if they hit town, then town loses either way, but it would mean that at least 3 of the 5 people on the day 1 lynch were scum. to combat this possibility, i propose that we form a town block for the initial lynch that consists of the best town reads we currently have

how do people feel about this idea?

[Dr Pants]

note as well that this is simply about optimal use of the vengekill. it would not change how we scum hunt in any way

[Dr Pants]

yes but check this out:

heres how we pick the group of 5 and the group of 4

we each submit our top 4 town reads (not including ourselves). the five players who are town read the most will become the group of 5, and will decide the lynch

if scum doesnt try to put themselves in the block, they're likely to get lynched day 1. if the block gets filled with scum who town read eachother, they're likely to get lynched day 2.

plus, if people start submitting lurkers as town reads, then we have some huge associative tells if the lurker flips scum. this prevents scum players from lurking and hoping town self destructs

[Dr Pants]

ok

so heres where my reads are now at

town to scum

csareo
skelda
clusk

Bullish
ZZZX
aphix

Naked jogger
Espresso

[Dr Pants]

lol i have no problem with a zzzx lynch
if i was mislynched, i think i might even risk the vengekill on him if he was still alive

[Dr Pants]

skelda can you list your top scum reads?

[Dr Pants]

he scares me

i can catch people who talk

[Dr Pants]

actually i feel a little better about it

arguing that he isnt a godfather, not that he isnt scum, would be a bizarre move for scum to make

[Dr Pants]

we've stalled

yay

[Dr Pants]

this is stupid
we should have decided on a lynch sooner, we've just wasted this day

[Dr Pants]

prod dodge

nothing new to report

[Dr Pants]

Hey Pants can you give your reasoning behind 245?
"this is stupid
we should have decided on a lynch sooner, we've just wasted this day"

Town stopped posting, we ran out of steam, we never compromised on a lynch. So the day has been wasted, and we got nothing done.

[Dr Pants]

so you want a lynch, but not espresso or ZZZX. but, if a player gets a vengekill, you hope they would use it on ZZZX

seems legit

[Dr Pants]

prod dodge

zzzx is probably town

lynch espresso

[Dr Pants]

espresso is 100% scum

still

VOTE: Espresso

[Dr Pants]

espresso. is. scum.

lynch him

[Dr Pants]

you're joking right

VOTE: Bullish

[Dr Pants]

if you are town then

a) i didn't lynch you when it was easy

b) i had zzzx as town

c) i had espresso as scum from page 2

i've been lazy but im one of the 2 townies left

[Dr Pants]

NakedJogger
Bullish
Flubbernugget
My. Milked Eek
1 town, 1 red godfather, 2 blue scum

Town loses if we lynch the red team godfather today. i suggest that the red team's godfather claims, as by doing so they will not get lynched and town will not lynch from the wrong scum team. if town is lynched today, then red loses as well.

I nominate the red godfather as the 3rd townie. Help us win, because its the only way you won't lose.

[Dr Pants]

UNVOTE:

shit i forgot this was lylo
what the fuck was i thinking

[Dr Pants]

ok so

NJ isnt the red team godfather, or the blue team godfather. the self voting gambit essentially proves that.

my best guess for the red team godfather is Eek, given his interactions with Espresso

this leaves Bullish, Flubbernugget, and NJ, 2 of whom are scum.

day 1 lynch:

ZZZX

(4) - NakedJogger, Bullish,

Espressojet

,

aphix

Espressojet

(2) -

Dr Pants, Skelda

NakedJogger(1) - FlubberNugget
Bullish(1) -

ZZZX

Not Voting(1) - My Milked Eek

day 2 lynch:

aphix

- NakedJogger, My Milked Eek, Bullish,

Espressojet

NakedJogger(2) -

aphix

, Flubbernugget

Espressojet

(1) -

Dr Pants

Bullish is probably a Blue scum. NJ and flubber are the only people I could see being town. Eek is the red godfather.

[Dr Pants]

you have been on both town lynches. people voting for you have flipped town. you only have 1 town read, despite the fact that if you were town/red team, then you should have 2 "town" reads (those being actual townies and the red godfather, who is essentially town today)

you are scum, and aligned with the blue team

[Dr Pants]

NJ is probably the other townie.

Why? Because he entered lylo by voting for someone. Scum has daytalk, which means blue scum's play is obviously "wait for someone to vote a non-blue player, then quick lynch".

NJ can't be red godfather since Espresso was pushing for NJ to get lynched.

[Dr Pants]

?????

blue mafia wins by lynching anyone that isnt blue

[Dr Pants]

NJ is most likely town because of the self voting gambit. Espresso's push makes it incredibly unlikely that NJ is the red team godfather. The fact that the move could have easily resulted in NJ's death also makes it very unlikely that NJ is the blue godfather. Its possible that NJ is the blue goon, but its unlikely. Most likely, NJ is town, Eek is red godfather, and Flubber/Bullish are the blue team.

[Dr Pants]

Bullish is also probably not the red godfather. On both lynches, he and espresso voted consecutively. Scum teams rarely vote back to back.

[Dr Pants]

nothing from eek. barely anything from flubber

im really tempted to just vote and hope that i hit scum, if no one is going to even try to help i dont really care if i mess it up

flubber, are you the red team godfather? if the answer is no, im going to vote you

[Dr Pants]

well, im probably going to vote flubber, and you are welcome to join me

[Dr Pants]

bullish, are you the red scum godfather?

[Dr Pants]

awesome

here's the height of the nj wagon:

NJ, Flubber, Espresso, Aphix

I town read NJ DP1. So yeah.

NJ can't be a godfather. the gambit would be incredibly stupid if that was the case. Bullish was town reading NJ through day 2 and into today. So either Bullish and NJ are a team, or Bullish has been trying to white night. Either way, here goes nothing:

VOTE: Bullish

I believe!

[Dr Pants]

actually UNVOTE:

i'll wait to see if anyone cc's flubber first, then i'll vote

[Dr Pants]

just because if nj was scum, then he risked losing the game for his team. its a selfish play, and therefore its a play that you wouldn't expect from someone who was working with another player.

[Dr Pants]

when you are scum and you pull a gambit like that, you alone are responsible for your team's loss. your partner would be absolutely livid. when you are town and pull a gambit like that, you alone are not responsible for a town loss. there isn't that one person who you share responsibility with.

mostly, i'm positive that nj isnt the blue godfather. this much should make sense. the gambit would work if nj was the goon, and risking taking a non-fatal loss for the team in order to give town points to his partner. however, of the 4 people on the nj wagon, 1 was nj, 2 were you and espresso (red), and 1 was aphix (town).

now, I'm 99.99% sure that bullish is blue scum. if we lynch him, and he flips blue godfather, then we know whether or not nj is town. if he flips blue goon, then we know that nj likely is town, since nj as godfather would be ridiculous.

[Dr Pants]

why cant bullish be the godfather?

[Dr Pants]

VOTE: bullish

if no one is going to post then im risking it all right here.

I BELIEVE!

[Dr Pants]

and now, for a proposal:

flubber, you can still win this game. and town needs your vote today in order to not lose. it is possible that we lynch the blue goon today. if this is the case, then it is red gf vs blue gf vs 2 town. since town needs to eliminate both red and blue godfather to win, I promise to not lynch you while the blue team is still alive. if I mess up, and the game goes to 1v1v1, then I will give you the win if you help us lynch blue scum today.

[Dr Pants]

im fine with that, and i wont push you further

[Dr Pants]

i also know that i can not do anything to prove that i am town, and that trust isnt something that comes easily in mafia. all i can say, is that i hope that you trust me and the things that i am saying, and i hope that my intuition isnt wrong.

[Dr Pants]

k, you are either scum or very very dumb then


if you are town, then following me wins the game

[Dr Pants]

the argument for scum pants goes as follows:

pants lurked on day 2.

i called espresso out as scum immediately.
i said zzzx was town.
i didnt go for the easy nj lynch.
i do not lurk as scum. review any scum game i have to confirm this.

I have been the ONLY person to try to get town to win today. THE ONLY. THE OTHER TOWN, WHOEVER IT MIGHT BE, SHOULD STEP IT UP.

[Dr Pants]

I got flubber to claim red godfather. I am town. god damn it.

also, as a note of interest. Bullish is now guaranteed to be blue scum. if he wasn't, then NJ would have been part of a quick lynch win for blue team.

[Dr Pants]

saying god damn it in lower case is underwhelming. however, im pissed off and i want to fucking town to win this game.

[Dr Pants]

HE WOULD GET CC'D IF HE WASNT THE RED GODFATHER

so, the "pants/flubber" move is obviously false, and you are now obviously blue scum with bullish

GG

[Dr Pants]

no im just not stupid

red godfather loses today unless town lynches blue scum. so, if blue scum claims red godfather, the actual red godfather would cc since its the ONLY way they could possibly win.

[Dr Pants]

this is also why im offering incentive for red scum to join town for the lynch. its beneficial for both town and red scum, and in the case that town fucks up, red scum is guarenteed the win.

[Dr Pants]

P-edit

There are 5 actually.
I forgot
d) town lynches blue goon, lynches blue GF and then mislynches and vengekills the last townie
e) similar to c but town lynches a townie who shoots the blue goon instead of GF, convincing....

you just slipped

its permanently lylo now, there are no more vengekills for town

[Dr Pants]

you are a sad, strange little man

and you have my pity

[Dr Pants]

in all seriousness though, explain, in detail, why i am scum. because heres why I'm not:

correctly called out espresso as scum
correctly called out zzzx as town
didnt join a flash wagon on nj
didnt join a flash wagon on aphix

and lastly, because I am actually setting up town to win this game. I got the red godfather to out. dont believe me? fine. but its probably not that you dont believe me. its probably that you are scum.

[Dr Pants]

also slip is important because if you dont understand how the vengekill mechanic works, you likely are not town

[Dr Pants]

a) red godfather only wins if blue scum is lynched
b) if the red godfather outs they can still win
c) the red godfather must vote with town to win

so it is not unreasonable for the red godfather to claim, and not unreasonable for a cc to occur should blue scum lie. i do not doubt flubbers claim.

[Dr Pants]

the red godfather is essentially a conf town for today and tomorrow. it makes perfect sense for them to out themselves.

[Dr Pants]

ill also note that it is hilarious that you are trying to paint me as scum when i have literally not made a single scummy move this game. my reads have been on point. i have not buddied, or manipulated votes. i have not pulled gambits of any kind. i can only assume from this:

I bet it's not

VOTE: Dr Pants

that your plan to victory was: "lets go for pants today". what's interesting though, is that the stuff that im doing you claim is scummy, ie the red godfather stuff, happened

after

this point. So, your scum read on me at the beginning of the day is fake.

[Dr Pants]

sorry that you happened to draw scum against me.

[Dr Pants]

also btw, its been almost a full day since i voted bullish. and its been almost a full day since you've voted me.

now lets put on our logic caps:

blue scum wins if a townie/red votes for a townie/red by organizing a quick hammer.

so, if a naked vote sits out for a long time, it means that either the voter is scum or the votee is scum.

i am voting bullish. so either i am scum or bullish is scum.
you are voting me. so either you are scum or i am scum.
i am not scum.
so, you and bullish are scum.

you made this too easy, you should have let bullish defend himself.

[Dr Pants]

here's the highlight reel of your ISO:

Dr Pants and ZZZX are scum from the same team. We'd do good to lynch one of them and if it's not the godfather lynch the next one tomorrow. I bet Dr Pants is Godfather but I'll never get a majority on him now that 2 people and a goat tunnelvision me and say `that's scummy` regardless of what I say. No worries, I'm going to shoot one of them and I trust you guys will lynch the other.

Espressojet doesn't believe in voting like Mr Pink doesn't believe in tipping at a restaurant. It's just Mr. Pink had a conclusive argument to back it up.

I hope we lynch ZZZX, and if he's town I hope he shoots Espresso for not voting him.

This post is soooooooooo bad btw. Even though espresso was red scum, you basically said "zzzx will flip town and i hope he shoots espresso"

I reaction tested you. You are scum, Skelda. And ZZZX is probably your gf.

man, look at all that town play

pedit: im fine with NJ now as well. its pretty clear that bullish/nj is the scum team

[Dr Pants]

lol no that wasnt a slip. that was a misrep by you.

saying "i only have my opinion" was a response to Skelda asking me why I believed certain things were pro/anti town. saying "x is protown because i have my opinion and a vengekill makes zero sense"

[Dr Pants]

ebwop: should read

saying"x is protown because i have my opinion and a vengekill" makes zero sense

[Dr Pants]

you silly silly silly person

red godfather is a townie. in order for both town and red to win, they have to avoid voting eachother today. so the red godfather is basically IC'd

[Dr Pants]

I've said my piece as well.

[Dr Pants]

@mod: flubber is voting bullish

[Dr Pants]

should be bold :p

@Mod: flubber is voting bullish

[Dr Pants]

even if you think my plan involving the red godfather is insane, read through everything else. check out NJ's arguments against me. Notice that NJ would attack me for something, I would defend it, and instead of responding NJ would just hop onto something else.

NJ is also obviously not the red godfather. this would mean that one of bullish/flubber was scum, meaning with votes on both myself and bullish they would have had the numbers to end the game.

Also, if NJ was the red godfather, why did espresso try so hard to vote NJ out? It doesn't make any sense.

[Dr Pants]

also notice the big thing:

NJ opened the day by scum reading me. But, later in the day, when I asked

why

NJ was scum reading me, I listed all the things from the first two days/lynches that made me town.

NJ's response?

Those things you listed for the 3rd time now don't make you town.

and lastly, because I am actually setting up town to win this game. I got the red godfather to out. dont believe me? fine. but its probably not that you dont believe me. its probably that you are scum.

The thing that should convince anyone that you're scum is that you haven't expressed doubt about Flubber's claim, despite how I've explained how it would be a disastrous play for the red GF. You even enforce it saying that the real GF would CC if it was a fake claim.

There's no doubt you are scum. GG no re

NJ's evidence for scum reading me is ONLY things I have done today. So, what was there that got NJ to open the day by scum reading me?

[Dr Pants]

also note that I would not need to try a fancy gambit if i was scum. there is a high probability that if scum sits and waits, one of the 3 not blue scums will vote for someone else within their group. blue scum then would quick lynch, and the game would end.

[Dr Pants]

Optimal play for scum is to bully people into voting for who they want.

getting in the last word, probably unnecessarily, to say that this has been NJ's game in a nutshell.

[Dr Pants]

sigh. and in my head i had wild dreams of being able to pull back town from the abyss. this meant finding out all the scum teams today. by threatening voting for flubber if he wasn't red gf, i got him to claim. no one has voted flubber (if NJ was actually the red GF then this would be the obvious play), no one has cc'd. NJ's reaction and the fact that the game hasn't ended basically revealed the entire game to me. Flubber is voting with me. I know Bullish/NJ are blue scum, and that Eek is town.

Regardless of how this all ends, I'm satisfied with what I have done here. I have done all that I can to put town in a position to win, which is absolutely absurd given how tall of a task it was. I did it as well with out resorting to shady tactics or strong arming people into agreeing with me.

If the game ends here, then I will have had perfect reads for most of the game, and no one will have ever paid attention to me. So, I wipe my hands clean of this game. I handed town a win on a silver platter from day 1, and no one was willing to accept it.

NJ, you are the worst kind of scum. Manipulating votes is one thing, but you are a bully and not fun to play with. I would relish the opportunity to play against you again, if only so that I could be scum and show you how a good scum game is actually played. You do not deserve to win this game. You did not play well enough to win this game.

Flubber, thank you for being a good sport. Given your position, you basically help decide who wins the game. You could have chosen to let the blue team win from the start, but you gave me a chance to pull out a win for town. When I said I would give you a win in a 1v1v1 scenario, I was telling the truth. You deserve to win more than the blue team does. You put a great deal of effort into your posts (almost too much, the wall posts were a little crazy), and you didn't resort to lurking or hiding in the shadows. You'll be successful at playing scum in future games.

Eek. You really should have been more involved in this last day.

Pants out.

[Dr Pants]

IVE GOT IT!!!!!!!!!

Eek, if you listen to nothing else I say, listen to this:

You believe Bullish is town. Now, we know NJ isnt the red GF because if he was, espresso would not have pushed for his lynch. So, NJ must be blue scum. If Bullish is town, and you are town, then one of me/flubber must be blue, the other must be red gf. If this was the case, the NJ would win by voting bullish. NJ has not won. So, Bullish HAS to be scum.

[Dr Pants]

logic 101 for the win baby

[Dr Pants]

[Dr Pants]

tell ya what. as long as im ranting, how about i show you how the end of each of my scum games has gone:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=500

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=250

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=975

the links all go to the last page of each game. notice a pattern? in each game, i was scum, and in lylo, chose to not vote. instead, i sat around and made arguments for multiple people being scum. I waited for a townie to mess up, and then i organized a quick lynch. In each game. I always do this, because its the easy way to win in lylo. its easier to let town mess up then to try to force town to mess up.

[Dr Pants]

well that didnt work. relinking:

micro 337

micro 355

open 550

[Dr Pants]

if you are not blue scum, and i was blue scum, then the game would have already ended

[Dr Pants]

I've been prodded, but I've said all that I need to say.

[Dr Pants]

Its amazing too! Like I played so well compared to you, the "townie". I mean gollie, you pushed through the day 1 and day 2 mislynches! Man, it was really good scum play by me to insist that town should vote out a player who turned out to be scum! I was thinking to myself, and my scum buddy, "gee wiz, this Naked Jogger sure knows his business, I guess we're gonna have to resort to an elaborate gambit to win! no way this super townie fucks up and makes our lives easier!"

You're a masterful town player NJ! You've crushed me and my almost good scum game, pulling town back from the brink of defeat with heroism and justice at heart!

Nah. You're just bad enough at scum that you didn't even try to convince me that I was fooled by Flubber. Now see, that would have been the smart play, since if you truly disbelieved his claim, then your focus would have been on him, not me.

[Dr Pants]

so lets walk through this. you claim to be town. flubber claims red GF, and you don't buy it. now at this point, you have 2 options:

1) its flubber/pants, and its a crazy gambit
2) pants is an idiot, and flubber has tricked him

both scenarios would be possible, the second more likely than the first. in both cases then, what town would do is push for a flubber lynch.

in short, I know flubber is the red GF, because you and bullish reacted to me, instead of flubber.

[Dr Pants]

also NJ, today IS lylo. town can't vengekill.

[Dr Pants]

If, before a LYLO day, one of the townies is lynched, this townie may choose to take a vigilante kill. (See Vengeful Townie)

Mafia wins when they control 50% of the vote, unless circumstances prove otherwise.

if i am lynched, blue mafia controls 50% of the vote. today is lylo, it doesnt matter that its not 3 person lylo.

[Dr Pants]

Im not going to respond, because dealing with you just straight up isnt fun.

I'm going to have strong words for you after this game.

[Dr Pants]

its not AtE. eek claimed intent to vote, so I assumed I was dead, and I put my final thoughts on the game down.

[Dr Pants]

No!!!!! I'm town! YES YES YES!

[Dr Pants]

Haha!!!!!

I dont believe it

[Dr Pants]

wow this was intense

damn you know how to drag things out eek

[Dr Pants]

me too, but unless scum was unecessarily playing this out for giggles, bullish is for sure scum

[Dr Pants]

like if bullish was town, then 2 of you/flubber/nj would be scum, and either me or bullish would have died once we voted eachother

[Dr Pants]

yeah if bullish flips goon then nj is for sure getting lynched tomorrow

[Dr Pants]

Naked Jogger, your effort is respectable. However, Scum would have won yesterday if you were not blue scum. Bussing in lylo is not something scum would do when they could just win the game.

VOTE: Naked Jogger

[Dr Pants]

Here's why I can't be the Blue GF: Bullish VOTED me. If it was me/Bullish, then Bullish would have had to leave his vote till the last second, and hope that it would be him that was lynched.

[Dr Pants]

As far as the stuff from earlier, I had figured that you wouldn't try a self voting gambit as a GF. However, its one of those risky scum plays that has the possibility of really paying off. You spent all of yesterday trying to get me lynched with sleazy tactics, straight up lies, and misrepresentation.

If I was blue GF, Bullish would not have cross voted. End of story.

[Dr Pants]

The reason of course that I 180'd my read on you was your reaction to me voting Bullish. I could only see that as you realizing that there are votes on your scum buddy, and you panicking.

[Dr Pants]

also, as far as why I didn't vote you on day 1: Espresso was my guaranteed 100% scum read, so he got the vote.

[Dr Pants]

Naked, this is the only thing that matters:

If the scum team was me/bullish, then bullish can win if any player, including himself dies, with the exception of me. With Eek strongly considering voting me, for bullish to keep me at l-1 could seal a loss. So, I can't be scum with bullish.

as far as why I wont vote flubber, we need to lynch blue scum either way, and I told him I'd lynch blue scum first if it came down to that.

[Dr Pants]

If Eek will only vote for flubber today, then I will end up voting for flubber, but I'd like to stick to my word while I have the chance.

[Dr Pants]

cut the crap. you obviously gave a fuck about bullish yesterday because you were voting with him, and in response to me.

I'll keep saying it: Bullish COULD NOT WIN if he lynched me and I was his GF.

[Dr Pants]

Funny thing is, your whole reason for scum reading me was that you thought Flubbers claim was BS. But now, you think its the truth!

[Dr Pants]

@ eek: fair enough. i hadnt really thought of it that way.

like I said, if you will only vote flubber, then ill end up voting flubber. i just really dont like playing with nj

@ nj: piss off. you know, and i know, that you are the one full of shit trying to save your ass. i will have nothing left to do with you except voting your scummy ass out of here

[Dr Pants]

Explain why Bullish would put me at l-1 if we were the scum team, and i was the gf.

[Dr Pants]

Explain why Bullish would put me at l-1 if we were the scum team, and i was the gf.

going to spam this until you can explain it. but you cant.

[Dr Pants]

VOTE: flubber

im fine moving this to us three. i just really dislike that it means i dont keep my word to flubber. sorry flubber

[Dr Pants]

explain bullishs vote on me

[Dr Pants]

this isnt a normal game. there would be no town credit for bullish to have if he voted his gf, only a loss

[Dr Pants]

no? without his vote, there was no chance i got lynched. and eek was leaning towards voting me. so bullish would have been the one to keep me at l-1 in face of someone who claimed they would vote me. Why would he not, instead, vote flubber? or you?

[Dr Pants]

your question is bad. i have no clue why bullish did what he did.

[Dr Pants]

needless to say however, you did enough talking for the both of you.

[Dr Pants]

Go away already.

You put all your eggs in 1 basket yesterday. You've lost the game. Get over it.

[Dr Pants]

You really think, that as Blue GF, I got the red GF to claim, and of all things, bussed my partner instead of ANYONE else, and that he voted me, instead of ANYONE else, knowing it could turn an easy win into an easy loss?

Thats unbelievably stupid.

[Dr Pants]

and are you going to ignore my response to this you slimy scumball?

he reason of course that I 180'd my read on you was your reaction to me voting Bullish. I could only see that as you realizing that there are votes on your scum buddy, and you panicking.

Your response was that your vote had nothing to do with Bullish. This is half true, your reasons for voting me dont include my push against bullish. However, you sided with bullish, called him town multiple times, etc. Its less about what you said about Bullish, which was very little, and more to do with the fact that your moves highly suggest that you are bullish's partner.

Lets look at some interesting evidence: NJ's self voting wagon.

The people on the wagon at the time of its height are: Naked Jogger, Espresso Jet, Aphix, and Flubbernugget. Bullish didn't vote you here. Why?

I town read NJ DP1. So yeah.

Then, the next day:

If I had to choose between who the other townie is (out of NJ and Milk), I'd say Naked Jogger.

We can't lynch another townie, and we can't lynch the red godfather.

Hows this for a you/Bullish connection?

[Dr Pants]

Additionally, if you and Eek are the townies, then why did Bullish only put townies as his town reads? Why not put me, his supposed partner, as a town read?

[Dr Pants]

You really think, that as Blue GF, I got the red GF to claim, and of all things, bussed my partner instead of ANYONE else, and that he voted me, instead of ANYONE else, knowing it could turn an easy win into an easy loss?

Thats unbelievably stupid.

As town you would've been extremely paranoid about his claim because the claim doesn't serve for anything else but get tension off by sacrificing the game.

It wouldn't have made any sense for you as town to trust it. Why did you and vote Bullish instead... so quickly too!!!! Who was pretty much null because he was too fucking scummy to be scum. Eek could have been scum, Flubber could have been fakeclaiming the opposite color of scum. I could've been scum and you just vote for Bullish 1 2 3 ??! EXPLAIN!!!!!!!!!

Your going back and forth on your stance on Bullish. I believe this statement sums it up nicely:

Bullish naked voted the mislynch and had pretty much the shittiest town cred

Interesting that this is your opinion now, when yesterday you called Bullish town multiple times. Bullish fit the profile of what I was looking for in a scummy player. He lurked extensively, and pushed wagons that flipped town.

[Dr Pants]

He didn't vote you either .. why?
---------------------------------
I would never have let Bullish townread me if I was his scumbuddy, knowing how shitty he was playing .. I would've told him to townread you. Like you did

Middle edited out, because this is just gold. I told Bullish to townread me? Bullish didn't vote me?

[Dr Pants]

No. You tried to win yesterday, not setup a contingency plan. You and Bullish made your last stand together and you lost.

I do know you are scum. And I've presented what should be enough evidence. I have no words left for you.

[Dr Pants]

its just us being unpleasant to eachother. read if you want

[Dr Pants]

It's easier to push a lynch on flubber in lylo than it is on you, nj. That's because how I played yesterday: slowly (and unpredictable up to my vote) to voting bullish yesterday. Keeping us two around for pants scum would be an uncertainty while voting flubber out last is a certainty.

btw, this actually isnt correct. If I was blue scum, and lynched town NJ today, then you would know i was blue scum, and you could choose to give the win to flubber instead of me. The easy way to win would be to actually lynch Flubber today.

[Dr Pants]

I'm sorry I really wanted to keep my word, but Eek wants to play it safe.

[Dr Pants]

Its not, but I still don't like going back on my word

[Dr Pants]

lol what

[Dr Pants]

is this going to be a hilarious twist

[Dr Pants]

like if NJ is town and flubber fake claimed and didnt lynch me for some reason

[Dr Pants]

theres no way flubber is blue right? then he could have won yesterday

if flubber was town then why the hell claim red gf?

[Dr Pants]

well this explains a lot actually

[Dr Pants]

No wonder NJ has been going on and on about this, if this is true then NJ is likely the red GF

[Dr Pants]

Haha wow what a silly way for this game to go

I was right but I was wrong, eek was super slow to vote but fast enough to out pace flubber

What a game. Btw NJ, if you're town then I'm sorry for all the fighting, since it seems we were both out smarted by a scum misplay.

[Dr Pants]

damn! haha well this explains why NJ and I were both so angry and doing the "OMG I KNOW UR SCUM HOW CAN YOU BE SUCH A FUCKING LYAR" kind of stuff.

Wow. Haha this might go down as the best accidental victory ever.

[Dr Pants]

lol

[Dr Pants]

The flip, why so late

[Dr Pants]

you know, its possible to play this game and not be a total dick to everybody

[Dr Pants]

like if you are red gf or town, then you know that flubbers now claim of blue gf is likely true, meaning that you personally almost lost the game for everyone.

if flubber magically flips town for what ever reason, then you know that I single handedly would decide who of you or eek would win. And who do you think I would choose?

if you are the blue gf, then some how you've got it into your head that they only way to win in to be incredibly unpleasant, and you are fully aware that it is you being asshole scum, not me.

[Dr Pants]

Here's the only thing I want to know from you and it's by far the the most alignment indicative issue in this whole game and yet you can't answer it.
Why would you believe that the red gf would claim just because you vote him, and thus loose all his chances of winning?

I told Flubber I'd vote him if he wasn't the red GF. If he was the red GF, he would know that if a single vote went on him from someone other than the blue team, he would get lynched and lose. I put him in a lose-lose situation where his only out was to claim red GF. If Flubber lied, then we will know when the flip comes.

[Dr Pants]

"I'm telling you I still think you're scum with Flubber."

"I'm asking why the red gf would claim, and that you and flubber are the scumteam."

Going to spam faces now



and apparently I'm the dumb one here

[Dr Pants]

oh that was past tense.

you still ended up being

very

wrong on those points

basically you are telling me this: flubber's whole "lol i was blue GF guys i fucked it up" is him trolling. He's going to flip red GF, as expected originally, and you are the actual blue GF.

Which makes your dickish attitude not due to you being frustrated town/red gf, but instead just a dick.

[Dr Pants]

Honestly, I'm actually pretty surprised that Flubber was not trolling there.

I believe it has to be NJ, since Eek and me voted with Flubber and would have known his claim was fake.

[Dr Pants]

This is sadly more difficult than I would like.

On one hand, why would Eek vote with me and Flubber if he knew Flubber fake claimed?

On the other, why would you have Espresso hard bus you on day 2?

[Dr Pants]

Still, I'm actually shocked that the Blue team should have won for like 2 days but flubber just forgot to vote

[Dr Pants]

NJ, why did you choose to vote for me instead of Flubber?

[Dr Pants]

Eek, could you explain why you chose to vote Bullish over me, and what made you decide that Flubber's claim was legit enough to vote with him?

I'll be completely honest here. I'm likely going to vote for NJ. But, I want to give everyone a chance to present their case since this is slightly less obvious to me than if Flubber had flipped red.

[Dr Pants]

After some review, I've got some thoughts.

I know that one of Eek or NJ must be the Red GF. Both have made plays that would be highly risky for the red GF to do.

In NJ's case, NJ self voted and was almost voted out. Espresso was also on this wagon. While this is a very risky play for scum, it has the potential to pay big rewards. By taking this risk early in the game, NJ and Espresso would heavily distance themselves. Given that quite a few people, especially me, wanted Espresso's head, this heavy bussing would allow NJ to easily worm his way in to a "conf-not-red-scum" position. In most cases, I would think this was too risky of a play to do with the red GF (it would be much safer had Espresso been the one to self vote), but its less risky than what Eek's gambit would have to be.

In Eek's case, if he was the red GF then he would know that Flubber was lying. There was a long period where there were 2 votes on me and 2 votes on Bullish. We know now that this was due to a misplay, but at the time it would appear like a very solid 2 town vs 2 blue scum to the red GF. Any other situation, and blue scum would have had the numbers needed to win. Eek chose to vote with me/Flubber. If Eek was the red GF, this would be an impossible risk. You would lose the game in every scenario, unless blue scum had misplayed (and of course they did). This would be a loss 99 out of 100 times.

Essentially, while I believed at the start of day 3 that NJ couldn't be a godfather due to the risky self vote, its infinitely less risky than voting with someone you know to be scum. This also explains why NJ was so hostile towards me; in short we had both incorrectly reasoned out that the other would have to be blue scum due to Flubber's misplay.

I'll give both of you time to respond and ask me any questions you might have, but barring a really strong counter argument from NJ, this is where my vote is going to go.

[Dr Pants]

in short we had both incorrectly reasoned out that the other would have to be blue scum due to Flubber's misplay.

I told you how I reasoned, how did you come up with the idea that I was blue scum?

Since there were 2 votes on me, and I had not been lynched the only possibilities we're that you and Bullish were scum or that scum made an unlikely mistake.

[Dr Pants]

thats true, but since the day came down to me/bullish, i 100% expected him to vote me.

[Dr Pants]

Well I'm going to let Eek say something before I make up my mind

[Dr Pants]

prod dodge. please post eek

[Dr Pants]

At this point, I'm going to vote NJ. His incredibly strong stance against me during day 3 and day 4 heavily suggest that he wasn't just being an ass for no reason, rather, in his mind I logically had to be scum. For this to be the case, NJ would have to outright know that Flubber's claim was false. Additionally, while NJ made moves that were unlikely for scum, Eek made moves that were nearly impossible for scum.

VOTE: NJ

[Dr Pants]

Damn. Well great job Eek, that was an incredibly risky move you pulled off and you deserved the win.

NJ, be less of an ass in the future please.

[Dr Pants]

I will ask though Eek, how come you voted with me if you knew Flubber's claim was fake?

[Dr Pants]

That's a very impressive move then. Well done.

[Dr Pants]

I'm mildly peeved that I called the game at the beginning of day 3, and then didn't follow through with it.

NJ is most likely town because of the self voting gambit. Espresso's push makes it incredibly unlikely that NJ is the red team godfather. The fact that the move could have easily resulted in NJ's death also makes it very unlikely that NJ is the blue godfather. Its possible that NJ is the blue goon, but its unlikely. Most likely, NJ is town, Eek is red godfather, and Flubber/Bullish are the blue team.

[Dr Pants]

And that I called Espresso/Csareo as scum a page into the game XD

To be fair though, Csareo did a very good job towning up his slot

[Dr Pants]

I did as well actually, I though Eek replaced Clusk