Micro 377: Vengeballs. OVER!!!

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
User avatar
Csareo
Csareo
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Csareo
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1329
Joined: May 13, 2014
Location: Tbilisi Georgia or Detroit Michigan

Post Post #100 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:06 am

Post by Csareo »

I don't know how scum would play in a game like this.
I've played some multi-team games, so the theory is actually the same.
The addition of a vengeball is getting you people to off topic.

Okay, let's say there is a blue mafia and a red mafia member.
They both read each other as scum, and since they know their teammate, they know that person is on the other mafia team.
When I played as scum in a two mafia game, in which we had daytalk (a standard rule), we strategized that we would pick off townies.
Because with 5 vs 4, including the vengeball, the townies would be the most dangerous players.

I guarantee you that mafia are not hunting each other. They are hunting townies.
Right now, it is 5 vs 4. As it should be. Regardless of color or affiliation, there are 4 scum.
They're thinking the same thing. There are 5 townies.
Once we are eliminated, the mafia would then proceed to fight each other.

That is overall the best way to win as scum, and the best way to fight as town.
If the game is played with 5 townies, two red mafia, and two blue mafia, then town will win EVERY time.
Unless......... scum act as one team until town is out of the picture.

I've seen this play out, and all the theories of what scum would do have sounded quite unrealistic so far.
Whomever said "scum would hunt each other" has an FOS. I'll have to look back.
The above comment is something scum would say.

Conclusion:
We need to keep some sectarian violence between the red and blue team.
If they discover each other, then they will cooperate to take us out, and fight 2 vs 2 later on in the game.
Town loses if scum read each other. I'm going to make a hell of a suggestion:
How about we only share scum reads if we're specifically asked?


Letting scum know their future enemy, and current ally, is the WORST possible thing we can do.
User avatar
FakedBlogger
FakedBlogger
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
FakedBlogger
Goon
Goon
Posts: 875
Joined: January 7, 2013
Location: Pula, RO

Post Post #101 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:04 am

Post by FakedBlogger »

In post 100, Csareo wrote:The above comment is something scum would say.


It's the naked truth. Why do you say it's scummy?

And do you seriously suggest we should stfu about our scumreads like scared little lambs? You've just layed bare your insanity. Your proposition is stripped of rationale. Nude madness! Unless of course you're overeager scum caught with his pants down. Have you just unveiled your scummy penis?!

More info is needed to unveil what's going on with you, sir.
User avatar
ZZZX
ZZZX
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
ZZZX
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 10778
Joined: July 7, 2013

Post Post #102 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:06 am

Post by ZZZX »

Scum is really strong in this actually. We need to hit scum with as little lynches as possible.

When lynched I'll use my vig as a pure gut shot so it is purely a town driven vig
Implosion: I see ZZZX was
redacted
. For shame, people. For shame.
The Bulge: ZZZX is ZZZX
Get to know a ZZZX: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=58733
User avatar
Dr Pants
Dr Pants
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Dr Pants
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2148
Joined: February 18, 2014

Post Post #103 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:29 am

Post by Dr Pants »

In post 101, FakedBlogger wrote:
In post 100, Csareo wrote:The above comment is something scum would say.


It's the naked truth. Why do you say it's scummy?

And do you seriously suggest we should stfu about our scumreads like scared little lambs? You've just layed bare your insanity. Your proposition is stripped of rationale. Nude madness! Unless of course you're overeager scum caught with his pants down. Have you just unveiled your scummy penis?!

More info is needed to unveil what's going on with you, sir.

yeah so you are for sure scum as well

like seriously this looks like your just twirling your scum mustache and cackling evilly while you write this
User avatar
Dr Pants
Dr Pants
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Dr Pants
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2148
Joined: February 18, 2014

Post Post #104 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:38 am

Post by Dr Pants »

I like Csareo's theory, and I agree with it for the most part. I think my goal this game is to take a really strong stance against lurkers, and try to get people as active as possible. The absolute best thing we can do is get the scum teams hunting eachother early for town cred.
User avatar
Bullish
Bullish
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Bullish
Goon
Goon
Posts: 266
Joined: July 2, 2013
Location: U.S.

Post Post #105 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:25 pm

Post by Bullish »

Ok, ignore what I said about limiting information flow. That's only the case when the mafias have control over a NK.

I completely disagree that the mafias will try to kill the town first.

In this set up for mafia Red, the town and Mafia Blue are identical, except for the fact that town has a vengekill and mafia doesn't. So, the mafia will try to hunt each other, both because it's less risky and for towncred. However, mafia needs to stay alive mor than it needs to kill people.

The optimal strategy for town... Is to hunt scum. I have no idea how, because ever you want to use the votes the exact same way -- kill the other guys, stay alive. Townies should care less about dying, because we have the vengekill.
Searchable Signature #865
User avatar
Csareo
Csareo
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Csareo
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1329
Joined: May 13, 2014
Location: Tbilisi Georgia or Detroit Michigan

Post Post #106 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:38 pm

Post by Csareo »

In post 105, Bullish wrote:Ok, ignore what I said about limiting information flow. That's only the case when the mafias have control over a NK.

I completely disagree that the mafias will try to kill the town first.

In this set up for mafia Red, the town and Mafia Blue are identical, except for the fact that town has a vengekill and mafia doesn't. So, the mafia will try to hunt each other, both because it's less risky and for towncred. However, mafia needs to stay alive mor than it needs to kill people.

The optimal strategy for town... Is to hunt scum. I have no idea how, because ever you want to use the votes the exact same way -- kill the other guys, stay alive. Townies should care less about dying, because we have the vengekill.

Absolutely false. The red team and blue team want town to actively hunt the other team.
Your theory would only be detrimental to scum. Town, is hunting scum, whether they are blue or red.
Ideally, blue or red mafia would aid in the search for the other team, while also hunting town.

If blue mafia is eliminated, then town is only searching for red mafia.
If red mafia is eliminated, then 5 players are searching for blue mafia.
What odds sound better to you, if you were scum?

5 town vs 4 scum
5 town vs 2 scum vs 2 scum

I have seen this happen and work. Scum have no reason to hunt each other now, because cooperation gives them a HUGE advantage over town.
Town is overpowered right now, yet both factions have to kill town to win the game. If both factions have to kill town, then both factions benefit by killing town as a 4 man team.
User avatar
Csareo
Csareo
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Csareo
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1329
Joined: May 13, 2014
Location: Tbilisi Georgia or Detroit Michigan

Post Post #107 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:39 pm

Post by Csareo »

Shorter summary: Both factions have to kill town. If scum is divided, and town has a vengekill, that makes town overpowered and impossible to defeat. If scum is united, then the odds are evened in their fight with town.
User avatar
Skelda
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
User avatar
User avatar
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
Zee Retiree
Posts: 1384
Joined: July 21, 2013
Pronoun: he/him
Location: Definitely Not Playing an LSG

Post Post #108 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:44 pm

Post by Skelda »

In post 99, FakedBlogger wrote:Optimal play for scum is to bully people into voting for who they want.

If they can do that without fear of repercussion because they have succeeded in manipulating town into thinking they wouldn't be aggressive that's just dandy for scum.

Optimal play for town is to put scum into a corner and force scummy mistakes. You haven't been doing that despite talking more than the average player so I'm still voting you


VOTE: NakedJogger looks about right.
User avatar
Skelda
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
User avatar
User avatar
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
Zee Retiree
Posts: 1384
Joined: July 21, 2013
Pronoun: he/him
Location: Definitely Not Playing an LSG

Post Post #109 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:55 pm

Post by Skelda »

In post 100, Csareo wrote:I don't know how scum would play in a game like this.
I've played some multi-team games, so the theory is actually the same.
The addition of a vengeball is getting you people to off topic.

Okay, let's say there is a blue mafia and a red mafia member.
They both read each other as scum, and since they know their teammate, they know that person is on the other mafia team.
When I played as scum in a two mafia game, in which we had daytalk (a standard rule), we strategized that we would pick off townies.
Because with 5 vs 4, including the vengeball, the townies would be the most dangerous players.

I guarantee you that mafia are not hunting each other. They are hunting townies.
Right now, it is 5 vs 4. As it should be. Regardless of color or affiliation, there are 4 scum.
They're thinking the same thing. There are 5 townies.
Once we are eliminated, the mafia would then proceed to fight each other.

That is overall the best way to win as scum, and the best way to fight as town.
If the game is played with 5 townies, two red mafia, and two blue mafia, then town will win EVERY time.
Unless......... scum act as one team until town is out of the picture.

I've seen this play out, and all the theories of what scum would do have sounded quite unrealistic so far.
Whomever said "scum would hunt each other" has an FOS. I'll have to look back.
The above comment is something scum would say.

Conclusion:
We need to keep some sectarian violence between the red and blue team.
If they discover each other, then they will cooperate to take us out, and fight 2 vs 2 later on in the game.
Town loses if scum read each other. I'm going to make a hell of a suggestion:
How about we only share scum reads if we're specifically asked?


Letting scum know their future enemy, and current ally, is the WORST possible thing we can do.


Okay, first of all, you are Town.

Second of all, 2 vs 2 scum would lead to a draw, which is hardly optimal for scum. And since their primary goal is to not get lynched, scum probably will settle on any lynch that isn't them. It is a whole lot easier to lynch someone who you think has a chance of being scum than someone you have a strong town read on. If scum could choose the alignment of everyone they help to lynch, then yes, they probably would choose town. But they aren't going to be heartbroken if they hit other scum
either.
User avatar
Skelda
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
User avatar
User avatar
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
Zee Retiree
Posts: 1384
Joined: July 21, 2013
Pronoun: he/him
Location: Definitely Not Playing an LSG

Post Post #110 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:58 pm

Post by Skelda »

Oh and another thing, I think regardless of what truly is optimal scum play, we definitely shouldn't be convincing scum to gang up on the town and settle for a draw. That is the worst thing possible for us.
User avatar
Skelda
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
User avatar
User avatar
Skelda
he/him
Zee Retiree
Zee Retiree
Posts: 1384
Joined: July 21, 2013
Pronoun: he/him
Location: Definitely Not Playing an LSG

Post Post #111 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:00 pm

Post by Skelda »

In post 101, FakedBlogger wrote:
In post 100, Csareo wrote:The above comment is something scum would say.


It's the naked truth. Why do you say it's scummy?

And do you seriously suggest we should stfu about our scumreads like scared little lambs? You've just layed bare your insanity. Your proposition is stripped of rationale. Nude madness! Unless of course you're overeager scum caught with his pants down. Have you just unveiled your scummy penis?!

More info is needed to unveil what's going on with you, sir.


I definitely am sharing my scumreads, I agree about that. But I do not think he'd dare suggest that as scum. I am really happy with my vote on you.
User avatar
aphix
aphix
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
aphix
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1350
Joined: September 2, 2013

Post Post #112 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:07 pm

Post by aphix »

In post 100, Csareo wrote:Once we are eliminated, the mafia would then proceed to fight each other.


This is the one thing out of all of Csareo post that stands out to me. Like it ignores that mafia couldn't fight it out once town is eliminated as Skelda mentions.

Skelda's going back and forth between very good posts to derp posts such as , already has some concerns. It's odd to me. I'm going to remind myself that I might be confbias and the derp might just happen regardless of alignment.


VOTE: Csareo

I just don't feel his view points are town motivated or make sense from a town point of view.
User avatar
Espressojet
Espressojet
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Espressojet
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1563
Joined: July 1, 2014

Post Post #113 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:51 pm

Post by Espressojet »

I do think Csareo is wrong in his scum tactics post, but like the Legend of Skelda, I rather think him town. Being wrong doesn't make you scum. If it did, every time there was a mislynch we'd have half the playerlist up in strings on a moment's notice in every game.

By the way, what is NakedJogger's obsession with nudity? You're a few keystrokes away from satisfaction, buddy. No need to take it out on the rest of us. (Ha! "take it out"!)
User avatar
Espressojet
Espressojet
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Espressojet
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1563
Joined: July 1, 2014

Post Post #114 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:51 pm

Post by Espressojet »

Also, nobody should be keeping their scumreads to themselves.

That's just dumb.
User avatar
Csareo
Csareo
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Csareo
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1329
Joined: May 13, 2014
Location: Tbilisi Georgia or Detroit Michigan

Post Post #115 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:48 pm

Post by Csareo »

Image
One of you ass kissers is scum.
User avatar
Csareo
Csareo
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Csareo
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1329
Joined: May 13, 2014
Location: Tbilisi Georgia or Detroit Michigan

Post Post #116 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:53 pm

Post by Csareo »

Yeah, and NJ's posts are a little creepy.
Can we keep it down with the nudity talk?
User avatar
Dr Pants
Dr Pants
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Dr Pants
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2148
Joined: February 18, 2014

Post Post #117 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:53 pm

Post by Dr Pants »

its espresso

its obviously espresso
User avatar
Dr Pants
Dr Pants
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Dr Pants
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2148
Joined: February 18, 2014

Post Post #118 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:55 pm

Post by Dr Pants »

hes taking the game way too casually to be scum hunting

him and naked jogger

wheres the paranoia? wheres the fear of messing up for your team, composed of members you aren't supposed to know?
User avatar
Dr Pants
Dr Pants
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Dr Pants
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2148
Joined: February 18, 2014

Post Post #119 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:56 pm

Post by Dr Pants »

no, instead everything is a bad joke or a pun

how can they be so calm? its not like they're actually scum hunting
User avatar
Csareo
Csareo
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Csareo
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1329
Joined: May 13, 2014
Location: Tbilisi Georgia or Detroit Michigan

Post Post #120 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:57 pm

Post by Csareo »

He is my #1 read right now. We have 12 days, so I'm going to review what you said about his meta change.
If it checks out, I'll put a pressure vote on him.
User avatar
Csareo
Csareo
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Csareo
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1329
Joined: May 13, 2014
Location: Tbilisi Georgia or Detroit Michigan

Post Post #121 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:58 pm

Post by Csareo »

You are a bit eager to lynch, but I have a town read on you for scum hunting.
I don't like having these games move to fast.
User avatar
Csareo
Csareo
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Csareo
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1329
Joined: May 13, 2014
Location: Tbilisi Georgia or Detroit Michigan

Post Post #122 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:58 pm

Post by Csareo »

PE btw
User avatar
Dr Pants
Dr Pants
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Dr Pants
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2148
Joined: February 18, 2014

Post Post #123 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:01 pm

Post by Dr Pants »

thinking about it, i think the best thing for this game is to be transparent about town reads, and to highly encourage activity

scum reads are going to fluctuate a bit, but keeping a consistent track of who is town (ie actively town), who is scummy (actively scummy), and who is lurking, is going to end up being important.

the fact that we haven't heard anything really from clusk and ZZZX makes me worry, especially ZZZX.
User avatar
Espressojet
Espressojet
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Espressojet
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1563
Joined: July 1, 2014

Post Post #124 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:03 pm

Post by Espressojet »

In post 115, Csareo wrote:Image
One of you ass kissers is scum.


That awkward moment when you can't spell

Return to “Mayfair Club [Micro Games]”