Micro 377: Vengeballs. OVER!!!

[Skelda]

having a "goon" read is stupid

if you think someone is scum, you should lynch them. you have no way to know whether or not they are a godfather, and trying to hunt for the godfather instead means town is looking for 2 players instead of 4. its bad strategy.

I never claimed to have a Goon read on you! I said you could go either way. I don't want to lynch you over Naked regardless.

[Csareo]

And how exactly are you gonna separate your scumreads into Godfather and Goon categories? Do you think the Godfather will be more careful in his play?

It is quite easy. The goon will be extra defensive for his godfather

[Skelda]

Quick theory question. Since lynching the godfather eliminates the goon, and town will eventually have to lynch the godfather (who brings the goon down with him), I would say goon reads shouldn't be lynched.
It seems like that would just be a fools errand.

It is a mafia phenomenon. His scum meta is to be inactive.

What is his Town meta?

[Csareo]

Quick theory question. Since lynching the godfather eliminates the goon, and town will eventually have to lynch the godfather (who brings the goon down with him), I would say goon reads shouldn't be lynched.
It seems like that would just be a fools errand.

It is a mafia phenomenon. His scum meta is to be inactive.

What is his Town meta?

I think he was scum in all the games I watched him play.
His town meta is unbeknownst, but I have a HUGE scum vibe.
He'll talk more strategy than scum hunting, and will lurk a lot.

[Skelda]

Quick theory question. Since lynching the godfather eliminates the goon, and town will eventually have to lynch the godfather (who brings the goon down with him), I would say goon reads shouldn't be lynched.
It seems like that would just be a fools errand.

It is a mafia phenomenon. His scum meta is to be inactive.

What is his Town meta?

I think he was scum in all the games I watched him play.
His town meta is unbeknownst, but I have a HUGE scum vibe.
He'll talk more strategy than scum hunting, and will lurk a lot.

How do you know he isn't always like that?

I'm fine with him dying. If he winds up doing that he probably will get shot eventually.

[Csareo]

Quick theory question. Since lynching the godfather eliminates the goon, and town will eventually have to lynch the godfather (who brings the goon down with him), I would say goon reads shouldn't be lynched.
It seems like that would just be a fools errand.

It is a mafia phenomenon. His scum meta is to be inactive.

What is his Town meta?

I think he was scum in all the games I watched him play.
His town meta is unbeknownst, but I have a HUGE scum vibe.
He'll talk more strategy than scum hunting, and will lurk a lot.

How do you know he isn't always like that?

I'm fine with him dying. If he winds up doing that he probably will get shot eventually.

Because he said so himself in one of his ISO.
Unfortunately, I can't find the same post. It specifically said "My scum meta is inactivity".

[Dr Pants]

And how exactly are you gonna separate your scumreads into Godfather and Goon categories? Do you think the Godfather will be more careful in his play?

Depends on the person. Some people are loud and obnoxious no matter what, which might be the case with Pants here.

This is the case with me. I am physically unable to not be loud when I play.

now, yes it is better for godfathers to get lynched. but the best way to do this is to hunt scum normally, and hope your scum read flips godfather. if they flip goon, thats still better than a town lynch.

its like your saying "i cant scum hunt for just anyone, i gotta make sure i lynch the scum PR!" in a game where such a statement would fit the setup. its a bad way to scum hunt

[Csareo]

Okay, I can't find the post, and now I feel stupid that I said it.
I swear he did though. I've seen him play on another site.

None the less, my read on bullish is purely out of meta.

[Skelda]

And how exactly are you gonna separate your scumreads into Godfather and Goon categories? Do you think the Godfather will be more careful in his play?

Depends on the person. Some people are loud and obnoxious no matter what, which might be the case with Pants here.

This is the case with me. I am physically unable to not be loud when I play.

now, yes it is better for godfathers to get lynched. but the best way to do this is to hunt scum normally, and hope your scum read flips godfather. if they flip goon, thats still better than a town lynch.

its like your saying "i cant scum hunt for just anyone, i gotta make sure i lynch the scum PR!" in a game where such a statement would fit the setup. its a bad way to scum hunt

Before I joined this I read a few previous games and a lot of times the people who seemed like obv-scum to me were Goons and would be very blatantly scummy, especially when their Godfather was close to lynch. If it comes down to a practically conf-scum who is probably a Goon and a fairly scummy player who has a fair chance of being Godfather, who would you lynch?

[Dr Pants]

conf scum every day

every scum you lynch increases your chances of winning, taking a risk and hoping for a 2 for 1 could lose you the game

[Dr Pants]

its as simple as that

all i want is to avoid lynching town, i dont care at all whether i lynch a godfather or a goon

[Bullish]

To add to the above, all Bullish has done all game is post about strategy, which I don't like. Apart from one post where he says two people are scum with no reasoning.

105 he says the optimal strategy for town is to hunt scum. Why don't you start doing it then?

I'm posting strategy because this game is different from the normal games. Wagons aren't readable, mislynches don't punish town as much, and there are just so many scum..

My scum reads were on Dr Pants and Expresso. Because Dr Pants scum read Expresso, and scum scum reads people. It's more Expresso than Dr Pants.

I'm busy these few days, but I'll still be able to read all the posts and engage to a substancial degree.

[Bullish]

Quick theory question. Since lynching the godfather eliminates the goon, and town will eventually have to lynch the godfather (who brings the goon down with him), I would say goon reads shouldn't be lynched.
It seems like that would just be a fools errand.

It is a mafia phenomenon. His scum meta is to be inactive.

Whaaaaaa..

[Bullish]

Because he said so himself in one of his ISO.
Unfortunately, I can't find the same post. It specifically said "My scum meta is inactivity".

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p6098557

It's as much a strategy as a meta. People forget about inactive players all the time. I can play against my meta.

[Dr Pants]

i have a strategy idea:

if you are town, and you get lynched, vengekill the scummiest person who isnt on your wagon

heres why:

4 scum, 9 player pool
majority vote is 5 players
if a town player is lynched first, then we have a

5 player group and a 3 player group

if the lynchee vengekills within the 5 player group and misses, all we can know is that there is at least 1 scum in the 5 player group
if the lynchee vengekills within the 5 player group and hits scum, we have no idea of the distribution of the rest of the scum

if the lynchee vengekills within the 3 player group and misses, we know there is at least 2 scum in the 5 player group
if the lynchee vengekills within the 3 player group and hits scum, we know there is at least 1 scum in the 5 player group

so optimal day 1 play if we mislynch is to have the lynchee vengekill out of the 3 that didnt vote for them

day 2:
if we lynch scum day 1 or if scum is vengekilled, we do the same plan with smaller sets
if we mislynch and the vengekill misses, we lynch someone from within the 5 person pool from the previous day. we would know at least 2 are scum, so odds of hitting scum are good. if we mislynch there, then the vengekill should go one of the 2 players remaining from the 3 player group from day 1. if they hit town, then town loses either way, but it would mean that at least 3 of the 5 people on the day 1 lynch were scum. to combat this possibility, i propose that we form a town block for the initial lynch that consists of the best town reads we currently have

how do people feel about this idea?

[Dr Pants]

note as well that this is simply about optimal use of the vengekill. it would not change how we scum hunt in any way

[Bullish]

I feel it's a pointless idea. Dividing players into groups by vote isn't that different from just arbitrarily dividing players into a group of 5 and a group of 3. Just shooting randomly is going to give a 50% of hitting scum.

[Dr Pants]

yes but check this out:

heres how we pick the group of 5 and the group of 4

we each submit our top 4 town reads (not including ourselves). the five players who are town read the most will become the group of 5, and will decide the lynch

if scum doesnt try to put themselves in the block, they're likely to get lynched day 1. if the block gets filled with scum who town read eachother, they're likely to get lynched day 2.

plus, if people start submitting lurkers as town reads, then we have some huge associative tells if the lurker flips scum. this prevents scum players from lurking and hoping town self destructs

[Bullish]

That just sounds overly complicated. Reminds me of certain government systems.

Scum hunting should be slightly easier than town hunting, just because there are 2 scum teams.

[aphix]

I've played with bullish where he was scum and quite active. I honestly feel his inactivity here is potentually a scum indicator as people will try to mix things up. But it's not strong.

I feel skelda is scum. His play here feels exactly like his play when he was a scum buddy.

I am still very much disliking csareo and pants. Pants for his lynch vengekill strategy which doesn't fit town for me and csareo is mostly gut.

[Espressojet]

Pants.

No.

[Skelda]

I've played with bullish where he was scum and quite active. I honestly feel his inactivity here is potentually a scum indicator as people will try to mix things up. But it's not strong.

I feel skelda is scum. His play here feels exactly like his play when he was a scum buddy.

I am still very much disliking csareo and pants. Pants for his lynch vengekill strategy which doesn't fit town for me and csareo is mostly gut.

I agree with you on the activity thing, but I think an eye should be kept on Bull regardless.

Okay, so I don't remember this game you keep referencing at all. I recognize your name, but that is about it. What game was it we played together? Can you link me or something? Whatever it is you are picking up on is either imagined or just because I am the same person.

I think Pants' strategy is ridiculous, but for me it is a Towntell. When people suggest ridiculous strategies, I tend to find that Townie because scum usually don't like to draw that kind of attention to themselves. Ironically I am townreading Csareo for a similar reason.

What do you think of NakedJogger, aphix?

[Csareo]

1519, murder in the baracks.
Bullish was scum and aphix was town.

[FakedBlogger]

UNVOTE: Dr Pants
Alright,
so we're all vengeful townies, there's absolutely no point in keeping the head down or playing slightly scummy as to not get capped as PR.

Therefore ZZZX has no excuse for his play. I want to hear everyone's excuse for not voting him.

[Clusk92]

UNVOTE: Dr Pants
Alright,
so we're all vengeful townies, there's absolutely no point in keeping the head down or playing slightly scummy as to not get capped as PR.

Therefore ZZZX has no excuse for his play. I want to hear everyone's excuse for not voting him.

Well, why aren't you voting him?