InuYasha Mafia (Game Over)

[Squirrel Girl]

Helloooooo!

Vote: Nero Cain
Vote: Rhaego

I have a town read on Geists, Abomination and AngryIce. Definitely not in that order

I've mostly just read the last two pages. I'll work my way through the rest but that will doubtless take time, and it's Day 1 so I figure I can't have missed anything too brilliant that will matter until after a night phase. If something amazing did happen and will matter to me prior to night, point me to a page or give me a quick summary.

[Squirrel Girl]

yes, you

So do you no longer scumread Abomination? Or is the AngryIce read in addition to that?

[Squirrel Girl]

yes, you

So do you no longer scumread Abomination? Or is the AngryIce read in addition to that?

What the hell is this crap where you and Mist act like its odd to have multiple scumreads?

Still think Abomination is scum.

I was actually seeking clarification, since you called out the scum on your wagon and only indicated Furious Frozen Water. Do you honestly think it's 2 scum and 1 town currently on you? Meh. I'm pretty happy with my vote on you.

@Geists - what's the xolf case?

[Squirrel Girl]

I'm curious why you asked someone who's made recent comments about her given a few people voted recently with no trajectory at all.

I like to hear from wagon starters rather than wagon sheepers usually.

Exactly how is that impossible? Explain what's townie about abomination and angry?

I never said it was impossible, so I see no reason to defend that comment.
I have no town read on Abomination - I have no read at all on her.
AngryIce comes across very forthright to me, and I liked the interactions from the pages right when I popped in, it felt very organic and scumhunting focused, like they want to figure stuff out. It made me town read them.
I'm going to buzzword 'overreaction' now and apply it to you and keep my vote there.

[Squirrel Girl]

Unvote: Nero Cain
Vote: Shos

Still good with Rhaego vote.
Mild town on Majiffy.
I think I just want to force an L-1 at this stage, the game feels very slow. Let's throw a lynch party to liven things up!

[Squirrel Girl]

What's the case on beastcharizard?

Also, what's your take on Rhaego?

[Squirrel Girl]

I have a town read on Geists,

Abomination

and AngryIce.

I have no town read on Abomination - I have no read at all on her.

So I'm like the only person that feels this needs to be addressed?

Well, either I forgot about a read I expressed after reading two pages and am town or scum who forgot.
Or I'm scum and lied that I thought Abom was town and/or lied that I had no read in order to advance an agenda of...something? I don't see the possible gain in choosing to lie about either read, so I'm leaning towards the 'I forgot' theory - and at that point it's non alignment indicative so I'm not sure what you plan to do with it. But, sure - do something with it.

Unvote: Shos
Vote: Nero Cain

[Squirrel Girl]

I've got High Shroomish as town now.
I agree with the people selling shos as town.

Nero or Rhaego votes would make me happy-happy.

[Squirrel Girl]

I still like the idea of dead Nero and dead Rhaego.

The following votes appear to be going nowhere, maybe people should move them or try to get a second vote on them, or something?

Lord Mhork 1 (Rhaego)
beastcharizard 1 (Venmar)
Katsuki 1 (Rhaego)
Young and Beautiful 1 (Birds of Prey)
Squirrel Girl 1 (Moogle Dance Troupe)

Not Voting 4 (Clyton, The Goat, HighShroomish, xofelf)

[Squirrel Girl]

Yo SG. Wanna vote shos?

No, I have come out with the opinion that shos is a town read for me. I, in fact, recently unvoted him and generally oppose the wagon on him.

This town is so luckluster lol. I'll push out some content and why's later today when im not busy playing league or something

I feel like there's a kettle somewhere being called black

[Squirrel Girl]

SG pretend to be a protown player. Why is shos town?

Okay, but let's just break it down. Firstly, there really isn't much of a case on him and I think the slip wasn't a slip at all. Secondly, I find his actions to be comfortable within my mind for 'active scumhunting' and also a bit of town paranoia. Thirdly, he has claimed Inuyasha.

And, most importantly - everyone voting him for the slip (of which you seem to be part of) is basically trying to sell me that he is scum, who has softclaimed a PR and overt flavor claimed a major character *in multiball*. Like, that's your logic. If that's the case, it behooves scum he's not aligned with to kill him because 1. It kills scum (or town PR) and 2. it will give town associative paths to hunt the other scum team. So, basically, if he's scum and it is multiball (which seems to be the only way the case on him makes sense) the other scum team would be dumb to let him live beyond the point one of their members finally goes, and depending on the lynch an earlier flip would be more helpful.

Conversely, if he's telling the truth, he already has a big target on his head from either a solo or a multiball scum situation due to the whole Inuyasha and PR situation. And in that case, if scum want to gamble about what his PR is for a few nights then I'm okay with that too.

Also, quite frankly, since the entire case as I understand it is predicated on him being scum due to multiball...well, let's wait an evening and see if it looks like we have multiball or not, yeah?

What do you think I'm whiffing over here?

@Always - I responded to that pages ago and Nero never responded back. I'm voting Nero, by the by, you should sheep me.

[Squirrel Girl]

This is all good analysis and correct but, wouldnt a townie jist answer 'i forgot'? Instead of analysing what benefit the other may have from recieving an answer? Town has no reason not to be fully clear with mates?

I supplied the analysis because I was calling Nero scum for trying to use it as a scumtell on me - because there is no logic to calling it scummy in the first place. Basically he accurately identified that I forgot something, and then just declared i a scumtell...because!

Why do you think it's a valid scumtell, since you're apparently on the same wavelength here? Like, why would scum have done that (the forgetting the read on Abomination thing)?

I'm also not going to flavor claim unless there's an actual reason to - and I don't see one. I also can put my votes on the same person if I wish.

[Squirrel Girl]

Did you even read the whole thing? I mean, I specifically end my analysis with an (unaswered) challenge to Nero to explain how it was a scumtell. Why are you even asking why I did the analysis?

[Squirrel Girl]

I would rather you forget that I'm a double voter and address the issue if you think it's actually scummy. Maybe I am just a really powerful scum role lol-ing it up in your face.

[Squirrel Girl]

If you don't understand the case, then why re you vehemently attacking the votes on her rather than trying to figure out the case??????????
~AP

Because what I do understand of it is stupid

[Squirrel Girl]

@Nero - I don't think it counts as an overreaction when I point out that there is no scumhunting theory behind your question and call it scummy. Yes, I *could* have just given the simple answer. But...that was the point, the answer was so obvious as to make one wonder what the actual issue was - it was obvious either I'd forgotten or I had lied. That is the option. One is alignment neutral, and the other doesn't make sense to have happened. That's why I attacked you for even asking.

There was no overreaction.
There was a negative reaction.
Those are different things.

And if your new stance is that you *weren't* calling me scum for the question...what were you doing? You still haven't addressed that, and I've asked.

[Squirrel Girl]

@Nero - so you asked me a question with an 'obvious' answer, I responded by saying 'the answer to that is so obvious I don't think you're scumhunting since you're asking it' and your response to that is 'lol, overreaction = scum!' ...I'm not a big fan of this line of thought. You asked an obvious answer question, I ignored/skipped it, and it mattered enough for you to bring up again when I answered it...and then YOU DIDN'T RESPOND TO MY SUPPOSED SCUMMY OVERREACTION FOR MULTIPLE DAYS.

No, I don't buy it. This is smokescreen.

@Goat - have you finished that read/skim and are able to offer thoughts yet? You promised, broken promises are like broken nuts - no fun for anyone.

[Squirrel Girl]

You didn't even call it an over answer until someone else did. You even supplied them the link when they asked for my answer. Why did it take you so long to point out that you found my answer scummy and to vote me?

[Squirrel Girl]

Squirel girl is town.

Are you agreeing with my points on Nero then, or just agreeing that I'm applying town logic to my actions? Because if it's the former, I wouldn't mind some sheepage, I think we're pretty lonely on the ex-Rhaego wagon.

[Squirrel Girl]

@Angry - what's your take on my Nero case as presented last page?

@TSO - same thing, especially since your Mastin wagon isn't going to get any steam, could you spend a moment talking to me about Nero Cain?

@Sven - you think I'm town and have no real grasp of the game, and don't wish to sheep a wagon? Why not?

I would like some more Nero votes now, please and thank you.

[Squirrel Girl]

@Nero - so you asked me a question with an 'obvious' answer, I responded by saying 'the answer to that is so obvious I don't think you're scumhunting since you're asking it' and your response to that is 'lol, overreaction = scum!' ...I'm not a big fan of this line of thought. You asked an obvious answer question, I ignored/skipped it, and it mattered enough for you to bring up again when I answered it...and then YOU DIDN'T RESPOND TO MY SUPPOSED SCUMMY OVERREACTION FOR MULTIPLE DAYS.

No, I don't buy it. This is smokescreen.

@Goat - have you finished that read/skim and are able to offer thoughts yet? You promised, broken promises are like broken nuts - no fun for anyone.

this?

Yeppers, that's the one.

@AP - functionally the case is linked right here for you ^^^ I did try to narrow it to a page for you But, yeah, he asked a weird question, pressed me to answer it, got an answer, and then took multiple posts (and someone else saying it first...and me poking at him for not following up) to realize he had pegged me as overreacting and that was a scumtell? That sounds fishy to me, like, really fishy. Scummy fishy.

[Squirrel Girl]

Let's even run this one down.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5991747 <--Nero's question to me.
I post and don't even respond to it.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5995067 <---He pokes again, he wants an answer.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5995412 <--- I answer and call the question scummy.
He posts seven times.
A day later I call him scummy again.
He posts 11 times.
Another 24 hours or so later I again call him scummy
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p6000007 <--- somewhere in there Always had brought it up as well and I pointed out that I had already answered *and* that Nero hadn't responded.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6000156 <--- later on Nero quotes my answer to Always. He still hasn't figured out that I overreacted yet.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p6000564 <--- later that day Shos follows up on Nero's case and is the first person to suggest I over answered.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6001826 <--- Nero figures out that I was scum over reacting and votes me. He denies that he ever said or implied I was scum - and went full steam on the wagon with rallying cries for town to follow him.

I feel pretty bangerang on this one.

[Squirrel Girl]

I skimmed most of the posts in the past 10 pages or whatever the fuck there was.

Nothing worth reading.

Stop wasting my time and get back on shos.

Give me your thoughts on Nero, if you sell me on how awesome you are I'm possibly two votes on Shos. My back is ready for scratching.

[Squirrel Girl]

@Venmar - I have never seen Majiffy *not* tunnel.

I might agree TSO's rage looks fakish...but I've seen a town TSO that I got very similar vibes off of. I am of the mind that's how he expresses himself. I'm not a big fan of that as a case. What else is there on him?
When you pull that up, I'd love your thoughts on my Nero case as well, and I'll give you thoughts on your TSO case, it's a win/win.

[Squirrel Girl]

You -did- commit a pretty weird act by saying you were townreading Abom and then saying you weren't. I have no idea if you were reaction testing or what, but I don't blame Nero for pointing it out, because it's a basic logical flaw. Your explanation of it makes sense, yeah, but it seems really unfair to expect town-Nero to look at that post, see the blatantly obvious flaw, and then, after smelling blood, think through the complicated process of listing the multiple possible motivations, conclude you must be tow and say ...what? Ignore it? That doesn't seem particularly town-motivated. Post his whole reasoning? He's just flaunting his intelligence. Townread you? No reason to.

I can understand where you're coming from a little better in the second part, yes, but I'm not sure if you're actually pushing that as the scumtell.

I never said I wasn't town reading him - Nero's second quote has me saying I had no read on him at all. Two rather different situations. And whether or not it is weird has very little to do with it being a question worth asking, and I personally don't even think it's that weird.

Nero has claimed he didn't smell blood. Functionally he has implied he was reaction testing me.

I am pushing this as a scumtell if 'this' and 'the second part' is me declarign that Nero wouldn't take that long to figure out I overreacted if that was his actual conclusion about the event. I think he saw shos say it and was like, 'hey, I can get on that and plop my vote there and maybe get a lynch - easy peasy!' I don't think town would forget they were reaction testing me or need to wait like three days to recall that they thought I overreacted.

[Squirrel Girl]

So... if you have no read on Abomination and you never did, then why did you explicitly say you did?

I do not feel like you read the case I presented. Do you feel like you read the case presented? Because my presented case explicitly has the answer to this question as a major aspect of the case - it's actually the basis of the start of the entire interaction and I even had a point in my case where I said 'I answer the question' and provided a link. I even linked Nero linking my answer to Always when he asked about it. I'll also even go one further as - I don't even see how this is relevant to the case we're talking about.

The quick answer is - I presented a town read after reading two pages, and 24 hours later I forgot I had done so. (or, if you wish, intentionally lied about it for a scumgenda - your choice)
Hope that helps.

@Mastin - could you look at my case for Nero scum and offer a thought or two?

[Squirrel Girl]

Why exactly do you feel that ignoring your vote for days and days and then accusing you is a scum action as opposed to a town action?

Because, as scum, he was handed a reason to suspect me and support for the wagon *before* he made the move.
As town...well, my basic argument is, I've never seen anyone do something I considered scummy enough to vote them over and then wait multiple days prior to even saying that I found it scummy. I mean, even if, say, he had better things to do with his vote - he would choose to not say 'I find this scummy'? Nah.

Your thoughts?

I'll also jump on the TSO town train - the AP interactions last page felt very genuine.

[Squirrel Girl]

So like, SG claims to have a town read on Abomination. I then ask her her read on Abomination and says that she has no read on him. I point this out and SG ignores me. Why? Well she says that she forgot and it should have been obvious. That's bullshit.

But like any good lie it contains a kernel of truth. SHE IGNORED ME. She ignored me 'cause she hoped it would go away.

So when she replies after I press more she immediately OMGUS votes me 'cause its scummy of me to point out a logical flaw? This is angry outted scum. If she was town she just would have said that she forgot. And now she's screaming for my blood 'cause she wants me mislynched so her team doesn't have to waste a bullet on me.

I know you guys think this is town but its not.

Why did it take you about three days to figure that out?

[Squirrel Girl]

High Shroomish sort of did it.

[Squirrel Girl]

It is ludicrous how hard it is to get a shos lynch.

That's because people are actively opposing the lynch. I know I'm one of them. You haven't addressed my issues with the idea of a Shos lynch, though you do drift through occasionally and kind of scream 'shos must die!' every now and then, which I suppose will wear me down eventually - it's just a question of if it happens prior to deadline

You also haven't responded to me about the Nero follow up question yet, which made me cry into my pistachios. It was a sad day all around after that.

[Squirrel Girl]

Most of my readinf and posting has been on the phone the last week and a half so any kind of big casework is impossible. On top of that, this game moves too fast with way too little actually worth reading. If people would dtop having 10 page dickswinging egofights that have nothing to do with alignment, maybe id bother reading more.

Why dont you post a tldr of what you want me to answer?

Well...our last exchange basically had you answer with 'I haven't been reading Nero' and I said 'when do you plan to read him so we can talk about why I think he's scum?' which...seems to be a burden on you rather than me.

Here's my case again though, if maybe you want to read enough to talk about Nero now;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p6004788

It's pretty short and has all the relevant points linked in it.

For an absolutely minimalist version of the case, basically this post hits all the high points in one snappy comeback;

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p6006703

[Squirrel Girl]

Its not for today to sort. Stop sidetracking.

Then don't ask me for it first, weirdo.

[Squirrel Girl]

Its not for today to sort. Stop sidetracking.

Then don't ask me for it first, weirdo.

Excuse me? Youre the one who got all snippity first.

No I didn't? You asked a question and I provided the info.
Unless you're taking my 'drifting through screaming' commentary as 'snippy' - I was actually just making a joke there, and if that one cut you to the quick at all then, firstly, why ask me something just to tell me not to talk about it, and secondly, if it hurt, maybe it's because you recognize that you're not helping much here and should maybe step it up a bit and not be annoyed that other people are noticing as well.

I think that's textbook strawmanning

I also love how YB does in fact grow a spine when pressure is on her

Who's straw manning here?

Is there a problem with my spine? Must I see a chiropractor?

- b -

I'm not sure I'd call it strawmanning but when your defense from a 'you are useless' case is 'well...yes, but why not try to lynch other useless people' it's not exactly awesome either.

[Squirrel Girl]

For a Day 1 lynch I find it a perfectly acceptable scumtell. If you want to call it policy you could, but lurking is both anti-town and pro-scum regardless of the alignment of the player doing it.
I also, personally, find you the worst of many of them - because you're actually posting a LOT while not saying much at all.
Which would be 'active lurking'. Are we allowed to call 'active lurking' scummy?

[Squirrel Girl]

To the content of your specific case, it appeared that your whole conclusion is that 'Ynb is useless so we lynch her'. Problem is that rarely in your post did you mention that my slot was scum, just useless.

I won't deny your accusations, but if you are looking for useless slots to lynch then you might as well lynch half of this game

.

I also feel I accurately represented your defense.

[Squirrel Girl]

When you're talking about posting a lot, I'm fairly sure you mean my posts yesterday.

As for those, I'm fairly sure the vast majority of them did contain content in the form of me scumreading T S O, and explaining why based mostly on meta in there too.

I don't think that qualifies as noncontent and I don't enjoy people trying to pass it off as such.

I'm talking about your iso as a whole in this game - I do not think the percentages favor you if I was to bother going through and tagging each post as 'fluff' or 'not fluff'.

[Squirrel Girl]

Its not for today to sort. Stop sidetracking.

Then don't ask me for it first, weirdo.

Excuse me? Youre the one who got all snippity first.

No I didn't? You asked a question and I provided the info.

You haven't addressed my issues with the idea of a Shos lynch...
You also haven't responded to me about the Nero follow up question yet

I disagree with you that 1678 comes across as "snippity" it looks pretty frank and direct to my eyes. Maybe try reading it in my usual chittering tones instead of a snippity one? It isn't even in the ball park of your reply.

Especially in context;

That's because people are actively opposing the lynch. I know I'm one of them. You haven't addressed my issues with the idea of a Shos lynch, though you do drift through occasionally and kind of scream 'shos must die!' every now and then, which I suppose will wear me down eventually - it's just a question of if it happens prior to deadline

You also haven't responded to me about the Nero follow up question yet, which made me cry into my pistachios. It was a sad day all around after that.

I put in laughy faces for you - LAUGHY FACES! I can't get more playful than that without breaking a few laws. I've tried! But, seriously, you read that and were like 'ah, harumph, she's being snippy, I'll ask her for her reads...and then facepalm here! Hardy-har, brilliant revenge is mine!" Weak, Mr. Mastin, very weak.

In other, and more relevant news;
I'm indifferent on Y&B's defense, it's weaksauce stuff.
I will agree with Moogle that BoP looks bad in the way he's doing the push, but will color it with a personal opinion that both of the slots in question are getting a little flamey.
I would also pleadingly point out that Nero came through in the middle of all this, told a joke (that was pretty weak, as long as I'm judging) and then scampered off.

Y'know, like *town* do

[Squirrel Girl]

Majiffy can you link me to a large game of yours

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=34551
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39196

[Squirrel Girl]

Is that a 'I'm willing to vote Nero' comment? Because you could have a nut if it is.

[Squirrel Girl]

Nero wagon is still here and accepting applications.

[Squirrel Girl]

That being said, I still think Y and B is scum but her scumbuddies must vouch for them if that is the case, so we get more by not dragging this wagon through unless this is an insanely bastard game.

[Squirrel Girl]

I have a willingness to call BoP scum now - duh.

I am not excited by people unvoting and then just kind of standing there like Peter Pan with their hands on their hips and a smile on their face while their vote lies flaccid and useless in the sand at their feet.
Yes, that's great, for whatever reason you no longer support the wagon, wheee! ...now, y'know, your *second* best scumread? Vote them or something?

[Squirrel Girl]

Hello, you.

Hellooooooooooo!

Nero.

[Squirrel Girl]

I have you as scum.

I am sorry that being "wrong" on Day 1 (and you are denying being wrong...so, really you should feel 'right'...right?) is such a shock to you that it causes you to need a snuggy. I can offer you some warm milk and a reassuring backrub if it would help?

[Squirrel Girl]

I feel like BoP comes out looking town here

I got the opposite vibe there. Are you going with it as a paranoia tell on him as a town tell or something? Because it felt kinda fake to me which is why I went the opposite way. Can you clue me in to the townishness?

[Squirrel Girl]

The way he went about the wagon, SG. It feels more like town trying to hit obvscum and being frustrated afterward

What separates it from being scum trying to hit easy lynch, and being frustrated afterward for you?
Because I'll even go ahead and agree that he looked frustrated, but...

I'm sorry, SG.

A pox upon thee and your house!

[Squirrel Girl]

It felt like frustration didn't come from the lynch being dissolved, but from YB probably being town after all

His frustration was expressed as 'he is scum, but by letting him live it will out his buddies as they'd be forced to claim for him' I will admit I'm not really getting an 'aw shucks, maybe he is town' vibe from that. Just me?

Squirrel, your imitation of Thor's play is actually very good, but you need to exercise funniness within your condescension more.

#1678 was very good, though.

At least it's better than when everyone thought I was Sakura.

[Squirrel Girl]

Maybe I need an eyepatch?

[Squirrel Girl]

Let me get this straight. You're scumreading me because I don't automatically believe Y and B's claim.

Well I don't. If that means I'm scumread, I'm scumread. Such a claim can a) give obvious scum one extra day or b) can extend the life of scum for as long as a buddy vouches.

- VFT -

I would be *immensely thrilled* if he is scum and has buddies vouch for him.
It's Day 1 of a large, even if he is scum and even if the only goal is to buy one day - that is also perfectly fine and not even worth worrying about until after Night Phase.

What did YnB claim?

Vig.
I suggested he should shoot one of the lurkers, like you, Mist, or Goat. Everyone else seemed fine with it.

[Squirrel Girl]

I'v ebeen busy this week, sorry.

I also apparently have 30 pages of catchup...I'm...neutral about doing that. What were the high points, if any?

[Squirrel Girl]

Well, I wasn't particularly seeing scum TSO anyway, so - okays.

[Squirrel Girl]

Vote: Nero Cain

Vote: Majiffy

I'm not sure I'm about the Action Dan push, but I will say I find Egg towny now.

[Squirrel Girl]

SG why majiffy?

Why not Mjiffy? He spent all of yesterday from the point I showed up basically fighting against a lynch on scum and for a lynch on...other guy. That was basically all he did - that seems votable to me.

For that matter, why Nero?

Do you want me to requote my case from yesterday, or are you looking for a new and different case? I don't really get this as a question, honestly.

Vote: Nero Cain

Vote: Majiffy

I'm not sure I'm about the Action Dan push, but I will say I find Egg towny now.

unvote this one please

Which one?

[Squirrel Girl]

Me, you twit.

It's a convincing argument, but I will counter your 'twit' with a 'nyah-nyah, gonna lynch ya' and raise the stakes with a I feel logic is on my side.

Why would a friendly neighbor pick their biggest detractor to send a result to and not their biggest townread?

[Squirrel Girl]

Nero Cain 1 (Squirrel Girl)
Majiffy 1 (Squirrel Girl)

Both of these are still happening.

[Squirrel Girl]

These wagons are bad, and you shouldn't be voting multiple if you can vote the same person twice. Putting your votes on different people is lower utility than being vanilla (unless you can achieve two lynches with your ability). At the very least, we know jiffy isn't undead, and the lemon-NC interactions make him unlikely scum.

I disagree with how you think DV should be played - by only voting once we have more people on the flipped scum wagon, later in the game that is more info. We would have had less if I voted twice. I have no idea if I can swing a double lynch, but if two people both go to L-1 I may be willing to give it the college try depending on who it is. "Knowing" Jiffy is demon is a long cry from making him not worth voting. Unless you're saying you know no scum are demon? If you know that I'll move votes asap.

Why?? Pointless votes on those 2 right now.

My Nero case was made yesterday.
My Majiffy case is more gut and is basically based on how he's sidelining himself this game.
What do you dislike about my cases and/or why do you town read either of them?

I don't see how that's a bad question, but I'm just chalking that up to different approaches in regards to roles.

If scum is on your back, and you confirm to him you're town, he either needs to lie about it (confirming him as scum later after you flip or confirm to others) or has to give up the mislynch allowing you space to work.
If town is on your back you create for him the beginning of a town bloc by confirming someone for him and also get someone off your back so you have space to work and a new ally.
If town is not on your back...you basically just make a town bloc start, but gain no extra working space.

I would submit it is optimal play to target people who suspect you with that power.

[Squirrel Girl]

I snicker at your chortle.

[Squirrel Girl]

Xof is actually claiming Jack of Trades though - by the logic you are using to suggest both existing is unlikely it would also make any Jack with a Cop power unlikely in a game with another Cop power. I don't really buy that as strong logic. Especially in a large.

If Xof had possessed a one shot bulletproof vest power - would its use last night be scummy?

[Squirrel Girl]

Why?? Pointless votes on those 2 right now.

My Nero case was made yesterday.
My Majiffy case is more gut and is basically based on how he's sidelining himself this game.
What do you dislike about my cases and/or why do you town read either of them?

I'm mainly asking why on the voting of 2 people who, from what I can tell, aren't even going to be considered options for lynching today. Don't get me wrong, I like the Nero case and have a gut read on him. Plus, I know that things can change on a dime. Just thought I would at least try and get clarification for certainty.

~Fenix

There was some decent Nero energy yesterday, and if I'm unwilling to state that I'd like to lynch Majiffy then it would be a self-fulfilling prophecy that he wouldn't get lynched, someone has to be the first to express the idea of the wagon.

If you like the idea of Nero scum, why not vote Nero with me?

-----------------

I feel that we're all starting to spend too much time debating theoretical setup and not enough time debating theoretical scumminess.
Nero is scummy - can I get a baa-baa?

[Squirrel Girl]

I'm still at a loss how only natiffery called me out

Well...do something with that info?
Or just pick up and start playing now?
Or something?

[Squirrel Girl]

NS is still advocating lynching Majiffy - so you do need to get this on the same page if you want me to buy into it at all.

[Squirrel Girl]

Oh, wait, the NS is notscience and not Nero Cain as I re-wrote it in my own head to be.



Carry on.

[Squirrel Girl]

Why on earth would we lynch majiffy?

Outside of the claim thing - why do you town read him?

[Squirrel Girl]

Because his feelings toward shos felt like a genuine scum read. It felt town motivated

It felt strongly motivated, I didn't get much town vibe from the way he pushed it particularly. This feels like a somewhat gut based read for you to be brandishing a 'what the heck, fools!?!' sort of response to the Majiffy wagon that barely exists.

So Majiffy, notscience, and MDT are claiming to have the same/similar roles? Well this is interesting, but how does it relate to the SK? With Beast's role, I can see an SK being unpoisonable, so they don't get killed by the mafia, but we'd need to learn about the kill flavor. Also, is the letter P something significant that you want to share with the class?

Pretty sure that's them trying to establish their bonifide's with each other. Stop weird rolefishing in the middle of that operation please and thank you.

[Squirrel Girl]

Sorry, I don;t have any excuse to post about here, but I wanted to be part of the crowd.

[Squirrel Girl]

Nero Cain 1 (Squirrel Girl)
Nero Cain 1 (neil1113)

@Mod - que?

Sorry, paying attention is just SO HARD.

[Squirrel Girl]

Me pointing out that SG switched her reads on Abom is pro-town 'cause that's like what town is supposed to do. Her getting pissy and saying that I'm somehow scummy for pointing this out is NOT a town reaction. The other part, about my not pushing her right off the bat is just more discredit.

You still haven't managed to point out how what you did was pro-town, and it's kinda wonky to then toss in the word 'discredit' since thats what you were doing with your 'pro-town' call out in the first place as that is the beginning and end of what you were doing with it.

[Squirrel Girl]

So, functionally, if all the puppets have renege and use it, Naraku would become a SK maybe without a kill or maybe forced to do his own targeting?

[Squirrel Girl]

Unvote: Majiffy
Vote: neil1113

[Squirrel Girl]

I just don't think they're all scum, and at that point it's a 33% stab at a theory scum amongst them - which is known as 'random chance'

I could pick any set of 3 and have the same basic theoretical chance for there to be scum there. So it's not really a value lynch.

[Squirrel Girl]

I guess what I was saying is, I don't really read any of them besides Moogle as town, but it's still not much of a value lynch because there's no assurance that one is Band of 7, and even if there is, no assurance that the scum one claimed (though maybe if Naraku has the names he's in on that gag now and can bus that one later for cred - hint, hint.

[Squirrel Girl]

@Neil - Can you give me a name or two as far as the confirmation goes? Because I'm certainly willing to believe that if I read back through this whole game I could find some people calling you town - but I am uncertain why that should affect my vote. I understand you're soft hinting at something, but it's such an ephemeral thing it's not likely to get much traction without you being more explicit. If you're unwilling to be more explicit that is fine, but then I would advocate finding a different defensive angle.

I also forgive you for the cursing, my fragile inner flower feels better

[Squirrel Girl]

And if you're not soft hinting you're basically asking em to trust some other player(s) reads on you - and in that case again, names should be there to see if they are inclined to back your towniness.

[Squirrel Girl]

vote:neil

he and lemi prob have the same alignment.

I will toss out that this is a pretty fine "Nero = scum" case though. I'd make a comment about 'but I can only vote once' but...

[Squirrel Girl]

SG why is Neil town?

I dunno, why is he?

You're on the right path. I don't want to reveal any names... I'm not asking to find someone that said Neil was "town"... but rather, Neil was "confirmed town." Or even, those who made a list, and said it's not in order of confirmed town, and if it was, we'd replace Neil and ??? (will not mention name) with MTD and someone else (forgot who the other person was.)

I vauegly recall that weirdness with the replace name one - I read that from someone.
This is weak, but I didn't really like Nero's move on you in any case.
Vote Nero with me?

Unvote: Neil
Vote: Oversoul

[Squirrel Girl]

Mostly just the Mhork stuff - that is blatantly not being driven by this game but another.

[Squirrel Girl]

What is your take on Mhork, especially the latest page or so of his... uh... "defense?"

His "defense" seems in line with your "offense" insomuch that both of you are picking up an old argument from another game and continuing it here - I don't find any of the points particularly relevant. Frankly, his reaction seems more town than yours, and it's all pretty murky regardless.

Let's lynch Nero.

I seem to have forgotten to log into this account. That's a lot of pages, too.

Last time I checked, HS was town with a horrible vote on us. Why is there a wagon there now?

- y -

I find this post more objectionable than the one that just got Shroomish a handful of votes.

[Squirrel Girl]

But Neil is more scummy?

[Squirrel Girl]

I don't like how you and him are pretending like I'm not confirmed NOT bo7. I'm town but from the perspective of any outsider not privvy to my role pm I think this would point to me being less likely to be scum.

I would think I'm as confirmed on that as you are - you still suspect me. Or is it only scummy when other people do it to you?

[Squirrel Girl]

Because no one has summed up why BoP should be dead.

[Squirrel Girl]

I mean, I understand there was a rush there - I can't tell you why.

[Squirrel Girl]

I don't like how you and him are pretending like I'm not confirmed NOT bo7. I'm town but from the perspective of any outsider not privvy to my role pm I think this would point to me being less likely to be scum.

I would think I'm as confirmed on that as you are - you still suspect me. Or is it only scummy when other people do it to you?

I musta missed it when Rhaego/Lemi was voting you.

I don't know if they did but believe they didn't.
That said, i voted them.

So in your world - If I (possible scum) vote Rhaego (scum) then I can still be scum because scum can vote scum.
But if Rhaego (scum) vote you (possible scum) then you cannot be scum, because scum wouldn't vote scum.

That logic seems a pretty good reason to consider you scum.

[Squirrel Girl]

By that logic shouldn't you have a scum read or two from those who voted Neil? Otherwise the wagon wouldn't suggest him as town.

[Squirrel Girl]

Do you not count SK as multiball?

[Squirrel Girl]

Because we can confirm SK or alternate scum team - unless you think th epuppets claim is a Bo7 bluff.

[Squirrel Girl]

Multiple people have called that town.

[Squirrel Girl]

Unvote: Oversoul
Vote: Mist

I don't like either the Neil or Shroomish pushes.

Nero Cain remains a good wagon that no one will even talk about with me.

[Squirrel Girl]

If you outted me as scum why do I have less votes than you?
You're not even voting me. And I'm "outted" scum. I guess I'm less outted than BoP, but...

[Squirrel Girl]

Also, apparently less outted than Neil, who you mentioned as a lynch desire. So, I'm like third most outted scum right now. Be still me quaking heart!

[Squirrel Girl]

yeah, # of votes=/=alignment.

If I'm outted scum and you just forgot to mention me when discussing lynches, then clearly something is up.

[Squirrel Girl]

I'm actually not even trying that hard, but I will agree that I appear to be discrediting you quite heavily.

[Squirrel Girl]

Were you just blowing smoke with the 'outted scum' thing, or do you honestly believe I am outted scum?

[Squirrel Girl]

I'm pretty sure Always already killed the Neil wagon - so you need to address that or present a succinct and easy to sheep case for scum-Neil. Otherwise that wagon is going nowhere fast.

You could also vote Nero Cain

[Squirrel Girl]

Of course that would mean you're sheeping outted scum, which is awkward, but maybe no one would notice.

[Squirrel Girl]

I'm bitter about many things, but I wrap it in a chocolate candy shell to try to hide my inner volcano.

Do you have an in-game take on my commentary you'd like to discuss?

[Squirrel Girl]

We've been a rather tiny noise compared to most - do you have a read on Nero unencumbered by my noise?

[Squirrel Girl]

SG, could you run me through Nero-scum?

Well, the cheeky answer is 'read his iso, trololololol'
But here's a rundown of the core issue in my eyes;

Let's even run this one down.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5991747 <--Nero's question to me.
I post and don't even respond to it.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5995067 <---He pokes again, he wants an answer.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5995412 <--- I answer and call the question scummy.
He posts seven times.
A day later I call him scummy again.
He posts 11 times.
Another 24 hours or so later I again call him scummy
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p6000007 <--- somewhere in there Always had brought it up as well and I pointed out that I had already answered *and* that Nero hadn't responded.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6000156 <--- later on Nero quotes my answer to Always. He still hasn't figured out that I overreacted yet.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p6000564 <--- later that day Shos follows up on Nero's case and is the first person to suggest I over answered.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6001826 <--- Nero figures out that I was scum over reacting and votes me. He denies that he ever said or implied I was scum - and went full steam on the wagon with rallying cries for town to follow him.

I feel pretty bangerang on this one.

Given the fact we're not particularly attached to the neil wagon, we might be asked to move but hell I don't like any of the current options.

Which wagon has more/stronger town reads on it?
C'mon - this sort of thing happens all the time, have you never played a large with uncertain multiball?

[Squirrel Girl]

Who are you?

If I wanted everyone to know my alt - I wouldn't have an alt.

[Squirrel Girl]

This arrogance is exactly what makes me want to lynch you. The fact that you tip toe around a certain fact that is mostly obscured from the town's eyes and pretend like it makes you town. If you're going to want to make me believe it (or the other's that have pestered you about it) then out right,

say it

. Otherwise, you aren't

confirmed

town.

In other news, Mist continues to fish more than scumhunt as far as the Neil situation goes.
People continue to have votes on Neil.

[Squirrel Girl]

Were you just blowing smoke with the 'outted scum' thing, or do you honestly believe I am outted scum?

I think you are very likely to be scum yes. That whole "no u are the scummy one for pointing out my contradiction" doesn't seem like a really townie reaction.

But, just to clarify - do you honestly consider me "outted" or was that simply chest thumping?

I don't exactly have a town read on Mist but that's not fishing.

Yes it is.

[Squirrel Girl]

I'm not asking if you scum read me.
You said I was outted - do you believe that? That's what I'm asking.

[Squirrel Girl]

I find both of you pretty fail-tastic.
Venmar's read is pretty bad though.
Sven's vote is likewise bad, however.

[Squirrel Girl]

I agree, the poisoner should try to poison him and then claim result.

[Squirrel Girl]

I'm doing multiple of those things, I'm an overachiever!

[Squirrel Girl]

I have a strong opinion about why the flip mechanic is why it is.
I don't see any particular value to debating or divining it though.

[Squirrel Girl]

I agree, the poisoner should try to poison him and then claim result.

Now this is role fishing~

For those who townread Mist - I offer evidence proving she either isn't reading, or had a hole drilled in her head.
It's an opportunistic swipe that makes no sense.
Thank you.

[Squirrel Girl]

Nero should kill me because he thinks I'm outted scum.
But he needs to take a poll about it first.

[Squirrel Girl]

I think the only people scumreading him are doing so about the claim in any case - I haven't seen analysis of his play.

[Squirrel Girl]

Yeppers.

[Squirrel Girl]

Vote: Nero Cain
Vote: BBMolla

[Squirrel Girl]

And I guess as a 'current affairs' type of thing.

I don't buy the issue with Oversoul as a slip.
I agree Y&B looks scummy as sin, but actually agree with Shos about letting it go another night - this is a large, we do have time, and on the off chance she makes it, whoop-de-hey! Worse situation is she's a RBer or something, and, again, I don't even think that is all that bad. :shrug: A confirmed town would be nice. I actually support the idea of her getting some scummy targets to choose from, personally.

[Squirrel Girl]

He's not a vig, he didn't get blocked, he doesn't have a shot... he's a liar. A lying scum that now officially needs to die.

Please tell me you're joking.
And this is coming from someone who thinks Nero is scum.

[Squirrel Girl]

It doesn't though. Just like his case on you is silly, the reverse of 'only scum would push this silly case' is equally silly.
It's easily possible he's crazy town who believes what he's selling. Frankly, as scum, i would tend to expect him to believe that town would sell what he's selling - so all we've established from him is that he generally does believe what he's saying. That's not a valid scumtell.

[Squirrel Girl]

I'm a Bird of Prey, I don't eat bread. I eat meat.

Crumbs are for Angry Pidgeons.

This isn't actually a reply to Nero's raised issue.

[Squirrel Girl]

Oh my gawd, I just sorta town vibed on Nero.
Someone get me some liquid hazelnuts, stat.

[Squirrel Girl]

It doesn't though. Just like his case on you is silly, the reverse of 'only scum would push this silly case' is equally silly.
It's easily possible he's crazy town who believes what he's selling. Frankly, as scum, i would tend to expect him to believe that town would sell what he's selling - so all we've established from him is that he generally does believe what he's saying. That's not a valid scumtell.

So if he were to claim a guilty on me and then I get lynched and flip town, you'd let him live?

That question connects to nothing I said.
But if your point is he was claiming an investigation role, and fakeclaimed a guilty on you - yes, I would make him a lynch. I don't see how that affects what I said above though.

[Squirrel Girl]

It affects what you said above 'cause I never said ANYTHING about "well he has to be scum 'cause this case is so cray cray"

What WAS said is that shos said that Neil should claim a guilty if he has one and I said that I agreed that he should so you guys can lynch him when I flip town. Its your 4439 that doesn't make any sense in the conversation.

SG I don't know why you think NC is scum.

I've linked it before, I'll link it again. No one ever talks about me with it after asking for it, so I'm starting to think the town thing to do is to request cases and then not talk about them. I must play a pretty anti-town game, i suppose.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p6004788

Yes it is. He said that Nero was lying bc he crumbed vig. I was indicating I had no idea where Nero crumbed vig and to actually show that if he wants to claim Nero lied.

So...you're claiming "haven't read anything" then?
Because...if you've been reading then either you are playing dumb for some reason or...I dunno...?

[Squirrel Girl]

@Nero - no, he didn't claim a guilty on you, and you acted like him buying the Vig claim and then being annoyed at it not being true = a scum case. Your point was cray-cray whether you are aware of it or not. You not being aware of it just means you're unaware of your own craziness.

@Oversoul - I am sorry I made you click a link to understand something I have repeated often and in many forms when you asked me to get you to understand it?

[Squirrel Girl]

I think both are suboptimal options.

[Squirrel Girl]

@Nero - since you're calling me scum for it, can you quote my weird sideways hop in vote to defend Neil while you're discussing him fakeclaiming investigative stuff and I just herpaderp in with some made up commentary that you didn't make?

[Squirrel Girl]

How is NC lying though?

This pretty yuck though. Its p obvious what Neil is getting at. I softclaim vig, no shot hence in his black and white mind I am "lying".

It doesn't though. Just like his case on you is silly, the reverse of 'only scum would push this silly case' is equally silly.
It's easily possible he's crazy town who believes what he's selling. Frankly, as scum, i would tend to expect him to believe that town would sell what he's selling - so all we've established from him is that he generally does believe what he's saying. That's not a valid scumtell.

It affects what you said above 'cause I never said ANYTHING about "well he has to be scum 'cause this case is so cray cray"

[Squirrel Girl]

NICE CHERRY PICK! My "this is pretty yuck" was ob in response to BOP's 4430 but nice try trying to make it look like I was calling Neil scum over the cray cray case.

Well.
1. I can handle a 1 minute response, and have multiple 1 minute responses in this thread alone much less my other games.
2. You are ignoring how my post doesn't make sense in response to the one post (and calling me scummy for it) and ignoring that my comment *does* make sense in response to the one you're claiming I couldn't have responded to. Good deductive work.
3. I'm not even sure what my scum benefit of setting you up for this would be, even if it was my goal. Like, say I did it...I then move the case from a theoretical fakeclaim (that has never happened) to a reality of why you two are both pushing a derp case...making me able to dismiss the case for what has happened as opposed to...dismissing the case because it is based on an idea that didn't happen? Whoo-hoo!

Majiffy is becoming scummier and scummier for me. He is basically doing nothing and has been doing nothing for, like, this entire day phase. But he's still posting a lot.
I'm okay with the Abom wagon.
I still don't support shooting Bulba.

[Squirrel Girl]

I disagree with your assessment of how grammar works.

[Squirrel Girl]

Yay! Stole the page top! Fear me from on high!

[Squirrel Girl]

Hmmmm.

Unvote: BBMolla
Vote: Abomination

[Squirrel Girl]

Unvote: Nero Cain
Vote: Oversoul

Now you have one - advance it.

[Squirrel Girl]

Let's lynch pretty clear scum xofelf. I would lynch oversoul or shroomish too however. There's no reason to leave xofelf for later. She wont be killed nor will she actually do anything of use to town. I dare her to list her other abilities

Along with their flavor names.

I want this list.

2nd'ed

[Squirrel Girl]

3rd'ed, I suppose.

[Squirrel Girl]

Oh you're MDT. I got you confused with Katsuki...who's no longer in the game and is oversoul. Got it.

I just hasn't seen you in awhile, Abom, which is weird considering all your heads. >.>

Nero I know that you're lying and I know there's no town motivation to do so. I'm asking what the town motivation is. I'm beginning to think you're scum because you're not actually trying to explain anything, but I remember solidly reading you as town the first couple days. That's why I believed your claim :/

I'm not just going to toss a town read, but you're not doing anything to help it

You joined in 2011.

Have you seriously never seen town do the 'lol fake vig claim/day vig/whateva da fug' thing before? Like...it happens all the time. It's about as common as a fake hammer.

Your hangup on this feels really weird to me right now - can you explain it clearer than 'he lied' because...seriously.

[Squirrel Girl]

PEDIT:
I thought he was serious and now I'm pissed off SG

Ooookay. That doesn't make it a scum action though.
Also, you didn't really answer my core question of 'you've never seen this before?' because, if you haven't we can have a discussion about that, and if you have I'd like to hear some reasoning beyond 'he pissed me off' as a reason to be focusing on this still.

[Squirrel Girl]

Nothing about what she's claimed nor how she's played it has made any sense.

Why do you think she checked a single ability of her JoAT counter-claimant rather than simply alignment investigating him? Do you really believe she checked a single ability that happened to be the one he used last night? (hint, she probably followed him)

This is really selling me.

[Squirrel Girl]

Not this way SG. Yeah I've seen people jokingly refer to being vigs but I sincerely thought Nero was being serious about it. His behavior seemed more believable than just a joke, so I figured he probably was being honest.

I hear you talking, but I feel like it's crazy talk.
Okay, so, let's just walk through this - you *have* seen fake vig claims before. Let's just presume this one (wherein he claimed nothing beyond a kill and a request for targets) was super believable to you. You then realize it is not. Where's the fire?

[Squirrel Girl]

I don't understand or think that TOWN would be pissed
I think this "lets talk about why you fake claimed vig" is really just Mhork trying to make it LOOK LIKE he's doing something. Why I fake soft hinted at being a vig is a conversation that I don't think has any game relevance.
I'm starting to think that this is really sneaky rolefishing and Mhork is trying to find out if I have bullets or how many.

[Squirrel Girl]

No worries - if you're town people are defending your town game as lacking logic as a defense about my case on you. So I'm not likely to get through to you regardless of your alignment.

[Squirrel Girl]

I'm pissed because you weren't a big and I don't know why you lied and now I wasted my shot and am a stupid VT

Remind me why you voted him again?
Because what I'm hearing is 'not for being scum'.

[Squirrel Girl]

Is Mhork cleared in any way?
I want to lynch Mhork now.

[Squirrel Girl]

Why SG? Because I had a slip on my phone at fucking one in the morning after a two hour show. I was exhausted.

Also it makes no goddamn sense as a scum slip. Unless you're suggesting all scum has together is a single show watch they can use?

I didn't make any commentary on your slip - I'm suspecting you because your claimed night decisions sound like crazy talk.
We can include the slip as part of my case if you'd like, but I don't really care.

[Squirrel Girl]

SG my action makes perfect goddamn sense. I don't actually know to play a watcher anyway. Especially not one shot

Your action makes perfect sense but you color that with an admission of not knowing how to play as a Watcher.

Look. You claimed to fall for his Vig claim (which already is stretching my credulity)
Then, when you see he wasn't targeted you...hard push him as scum for lying.
Then when you are pressed about your reasoning you random claim, and admit your play was bad and back off.

This is not normal.
Just take my word for it.

[Squirrel Girl]

I saw he wasn't targeted and there wasn't a kill from him. I knew he couldn't have been blocked, so that meant he had to be lying about being a vig. I didn't see any town reason for that, so fuck yeah I pushed.

I'm not going to debate that what he did was pro-town - but it's equally silly to suggest it was pro-scum. It was just a dumb fakeclaim like so many other fakeclaims that people do all the time.

The new pony riding gal just claimed BP - was that pro-scum or something too?

I feel like one of us has to be crazy.

[Squirrel Girl]

Nuclear bomb vig is needed here methinks.

[Squirrel Girl]

Unvote: Oversoul
Vote: Xofelf

I feel like people are forgetting the...y'know, sorta semi-confirmed scum.
I am willing to see people debate between that and an Abomination lynch though, wheeee!

[Squirrel Girl]

Squirrel, semi confirmed? Can you elaborate on that?

I would submit that the role sounds like a pro-scum one. Like, the powers sound anti-town.
Also, I agree with BBMolla's statement that 2 Jacks are unusual and unlikely - and Xoelf's JOAT is one that is trying to pick up credability by mirroring (on one power) an effect afflicting all of BBMolla's powers - which also seems unlikely to me.

Do you like Xoelf's claim?

[Squirrel Girl]

My basic issue was really the one bit of randomness stuck in, and the overall pro scum utility of the claimed effects.
2 JOATs is certainly possible, but I think there's a fair argument that statistically it's less likely that they're both town even if they are both JOATs.

[Squirrel Girl]

Squirrel, semi confirmed? Can you elaborate on that?

I would submit that the role sounds like a pro-scum one. Like, the powers sound anti-town.
Also, I agree with BBMolla's statement that 2 Jacks are unusual and unlikely - and Xoelf's JOAT is one that is trying to pick up credability by mirroring (on one power) an effect afflicting all of BBMolla's powers - which also seems unlikely to me.

Do you like Xoelf's claim?

@Goat - there.

[Squirrel Girl]

SG: What's your feeling on Abomination?

I'm voting Abomination - I think Abomination is pretty scummy.

[Squirrel Girl]

I also come back and the wagon on Xoelf got HUGE.
Yay!

[Squirrel Girl]

And looking it up - I actually don't hate Abom's commentary when they voted Xolef.
I'm still leaving my vote on them - there are dozens of other more obvious and discussed reasons to vote her already, so I'll admit needing the new one to push you over the edge feels a little weird, but, hey.

Nero also isn't voting Xoelf, I'll take that as a sign too.
Yes, I'm aware he's voting Abomination - I can compartmentalize my conf. bias.

[Squirrel Girl]

1. tonight, I am
2. only after I get a vigging ability
3. gives me an ability
4. I duel - I get an ability - I can use it/duel again

this has been addressed 134134425456566796793245123412341324 times. any further questions?

Wait - your role name includes the word 'Vigilante'
How do you get a vigging ability only sometimes? What is that mechanic?

[Squirrel Girl]

SG: What's your feeling on Abomination?

I'm voting Abomination - I think Abomination is pretty scummy.

We know. He's getting vig'ed.

Yeah, I know that thought is out there - that's a reason I'm voting Xoelf.

@Shos - so your gained ability, how does it generate what ability you gain?

[Squirrel Girl]

@Shos - also, didn't you like confirm an ability that BBMolla used? I mean, I can easily get that learn = gain I'm good with that. But I thought you claimed to confirm an ability BBMolla had...or someone claimed you did.

Also, yeah, an explanation of what determines what ability you gain would be radicool!

[Squirrel Girl]

No, that was Xoelf, nevermind.

So just the explanation of how you get differing abilities then.

[Squirrel Girl]

I found the romance a bit forced, I prefer more elegantly erotic dragon porn.

[Squirrel Girl]

@Shos - does your ability stipulate that you get effects based off who you target?

[Squirrel Girl]

no, it doesn't say anything. However, if Majiffy claimed Ryuijin and I got dragonscale tessaiga from him, then it is indeed likely that it's relevant, imo.

What does it say?

[Squirrel Girl]

paraphrasing: "you might get a 1-shot ability"; ...I think we've been through this~

Yeah, and people have been complaining that you haven't explained it very well, tey've been over that too.

Does it indicate that the type of one-shot you get is almost invariably a killing power?
Also, you indicated getting an ability already that you didn't indicate was 1-shot nor did you indicate use of it, so what happened there? Since you never used it I' guessing it's meaningless, are you planning to share what went down or are you intentionally not?

Hey, can you guys all post which of {abom, bulba} you want me to shoot

I have indicated a number of times that I think Bulba is town and that shot idea is bad.
I am currently voting for Abom who is a lurker and also decently scummy.
One of these options was the strongest counter to a player it looks like we're going to lynch.
If Bulba is shot and flips town I will hate you for all time.

[Squirrel Girl]

Now someone who wants Xolelf dead can vote him, and then BBMolla can hammer.

I say this with full awareness that I have a second vote not on Xoelf - deal with the wagon analysis - deal with it!

[Squirrel Girl]

SG, are you trying to deliberately confuse me with long words?

it says that I will recieve an ability, which has high chance of being a 1-shot vig ability.

Is that a basic direct paraphrase of what it says?

I understand that abom is a scummy mcscum, as I've said before; but the thing about bulba that gives me the creeps is that after prodding him for a claim before I shoot him - he ignored it actively. I mean, he responded with 'not claiming'. why would a townie not claim in such a situation?

Why would anyone? I don't see that as a brilliant scum move either. It's a 'up yers' move if anything, and that can come from either alignment.

[Squirrel Girl]

What do you guys think about the composition of Xo's lynch wagon?

I'm fine with it - do you see anything leaping out as crazy that you wanted to point out?

[Squirrel Girl]

Shos, Not in my experience. I've always known it to RB+protect. And probably around 95% of my games are from mafiascum.

They kinda changed up the way it worked and the naming convention for it a year or two back or so.

[Squirrel Girl]

That would still be informative though, yeah?

[Squirrel Girl]

Who can tell with people?
Though I suppose now that we've discussed it anyone who claims Undead after this phase is basically claiming scum, and move forward from there.

[Squirrel Girl]

I think with one undead miller claim and one flipped dead scum undead that, yeah, any claims after this phase of 'oh, well, I'm undead' are a pretty clear scum claim.
Do you agree with that?

[Squirrel Girl]

Just as a random thought - what is the remote purpose of shos' self watch that doesn't work on humans?
Like, I can't see any benefit town or scum from it - can anyone theorize on a purpose to the power?

[Squirrel Girl]

Vote: Majiffy

[Squirrel Girl]

mhork, bus your buddy. SG is doing it.

You can look at the wagons I've pushed and the things I've said and still think I'm scum?
Besides getting an innocent child claim I have no idea how I could look more obv. town.

[Squirrel Girl]

also i will treat any protective claim that claims to protect shos as a scum claim

I would second that.

[Squirrel Girl]

I'll just clarify that I've been around with two votes and didn't take it.
Carry on.

Though i would like to get every player at least weighing in. So be aware with a hammer you are voting against that.

[Squirrel Girl]

Right now you can't.
So since you're town, and since a self hammer would potentially lose shards, why not vote yourself now?

[Squirrel Girl]

Im not self hammering. But if we are intentionally delaying my lynch, I'll make it miserable for you all.

So....basically you're claiming scum then?

[Squirrel Girl]

Squirrel girl, please vote Aronis so we can get rid of this pest.

He is carcinogenic.

- b -

Yeah, I'd say wait until he's most assuredly not around to coordinate that - if that's the goal.

[Squirrel Girl]

See? It would be bad to try right now.

[Squirrel Girl]

Maybe we'll do it at some random time tomorrow.
Who knows?

[Squirrel Girl]

[Squirrel Girl]

We have a lot of flipped scum now.
I skipped lot of pages.
Has anyone done any VCA yet?
I'd like some pretty VCA with cute little colors on it and stuff.
Seems like it would help.

What's the BoP case again? I can't even recall. Is it 'being useless' or something else?

[Squirrel Girl]

The case on me is I am voting the scums and my VCA clears the obvious mislynch targets so they have to lynch me to discredit me.

I do recall rather liking the work you did even if it lacked pretty colors.

I guess I should let them re-state it to me. After all, I have two votes and am confirmed town except to silly peeps, who wouldn't want to court me at this stage?

[Squirrel Girl]

Your deep passion scares you so you need to hide behind shallow words to hide the depth of your feelings.
It's okay.

[Squirrel Girl]

So, now that Action Dan is confirmed to have no case - anyone else?

[Squirrel Girl]

@ProHawk - In what manner and for what purpose?

@Mhork - Yeppers!

@Oversoul - Why is Ascetic a confirmed town sorta claim?

[Squirrel Girl]

I am failing to follow this.

[Squirrel Girl]

I huess I'm just a shrug and a walkaway though, to see where it goes.
But I am lost.

[Squirrel Girl]

I huess I'm just a shrug and a walkaway though, to see where it goes.
But I am lost.

Are we sure this is town?

How is that comment remotely anti-town or scummy?

I played an sk double voter so I sm not sure that SG is town.

Are you calling me Bo7 or double voting ninja-puppet SK? Just curious of your thoughts.

I actually imagined a post from Kagami saying that if they were vanillaized, they would still be able to be puppeted for the kill. I found the contradicting post where MDT claimed to be able to vanillaize away the puppet, but now I can't find the kagami post. In the area where it should have been, it was just a majiffy/NS/BoP clusterfuck of argument.

UNVOTE: Kagami

Today is the last early day.

You have no other thoughts on who else is scummy?

Can you still double vote?

Yes.
Is your theory that a scum double voter would have lost the power at this stage (or yesterday - wherein I think I didn't have two votes in play)?
Because the only time I've ever seen scum with a loss of DV power is basically *at* lylo. And that was in a non-SK scenario.
So, again, I'm not sure where this is really going.

And most of all, you really don't want to talk about lemniscate, whom you hard defended for day 1 until your "O, I guess we have to lynch my mega-townread. Darn these deadlines" vote.

Are you suggesting that was a bus?
Because that sounds like a reasonable reason to presume, if he is scum, that he wasn't scum with Lemi - no?

[Squirrel Girl]

SG it isn't necessarily anti-town or scummy but it certainly isn't town.

Sooooo...admitting I had no idea what was going on, and then saying 'hey, let's see what you got, whatevs!' is...not town but might be anti-town or scummy?
You seem to be telling me that butting into the middle of other people's scumhunting is pro-town or something here.
I feel like I have to be misunderstanding that because it sounds like crazy talk. Why don't you clear it up for me?

When did I say that? I took off my vote because the contradiction I saw turned out to not exist.

And now you're...?

I want more people to vote ProHawk. Now.

Why? He seems like town.

[Squirrel Girl]

Why? He seems like town.

I'm trying to sort you, could you not ignore me?

I find your raised issues twofold;

1. You basically note that as I have gained more info I appear to have become more cautious (aka -thoughtful, one might say) with how aggressive I place any given vote. That seems like an argument that I have 'common sense' rather than a scum mentality, so I found it silly that you're even taking issue with it, but decided it wasn't my buisness to debate game theory with you.

2. Your other raised point is that I may be lying about my ability, because you think I would, as scum, choose to overstate the power of my vote ability in a Large theme for...some reason? I would rather see if you can get a wagon going about this and disprove it then go for immediate disapproval. After all, I know I could destroy that part of your case quite easily - so there's no actual value in bothering to do it on your timeline. Feel free to build a wagon about it though, I'd be fine with that. Functionally it's like deciding to run up someone who claimed unlynchable to see if they'll recant the claim. It doesn't intimidate me.

With that as your case - I saw what your issue was, assessed it as nonsensical, and chose to ignore it because I saw no value in the conversation. You can harp about it more, but that's my stance and I don't see it changing.

[Squirrel Girl]

Shos continues to scum it up.

Sigh.

Who is your top non-SK scumspect?

[Squirrel Girl]

At least two of the people voting you are basically confirmed not Bo7 though - so I'm not sure what you're saying there.
Is Goat scum, is that what you're suggesting?

[Squirrel Girl]

Squirrel, you have a very odd notion of basically confirmed town. If I get pushed by scum today it's because they have at least one scum in that very category. Keep that in mind when you see my flip.

I said nothing about confirmed town - I said confirmed *not Bo7* which is a huge difference, and also is pretty clear.
If Egg or Shos are Bo7 they are bus happy mean jerks to their team - I don't see that being the case.
With that in mind - can you explain to me the scum wagon on you again?

@Shos - how in the universe am I an acceptable shot? Like, seriously, explain how I'm Bo7 or a 3rd party please.

[Squirrel Girl]

@Shos - how in the universe am I an acceptable shot? Like, seriously, explain how I'm Bo7 or a 3rd party please.

that's easy. you've done a shitful of nothing almost through the entire game, and you're a doublevoter. in a 28p game, with likely 6 scums, giving them another vote makes very much sense.

That is just about the best reason to vote/shoot someone I have right now. I'm confused as hell. done well so far, but all the obvious choices are gone now.

Okay, well, I strongly disagree with the 'doing nothing' comment.
But even if you think I'm doing nothing...there are like ten players easily and blatantly doing less - so how am I somehow doing the most nothing?
Because that is apparently the whole of the case.

Okay, lets play semantics. So you don't think they are Bo7 but you also don't think they are basically confirmed town? Which means you still think they could be third-party?

Sure, we have a functionally confirmed SK out there - and either of them could somehow be the SK (though I would be shocked if Egg is).
So I can't call them confirmed town. Which is why I didn't.
That said, it still begs the question of how you could call that wagon scum pushed - that doesn't make sense at this stage of the wagon in my opinion.

[Squirrel Girl]

Majiffy and you are the only ones I can easily see as scum. all the rest have *something* that prevents me from wanting to hurt them.

You listed me and Oversoul as your shot options.

[Squirrel Girl]

And just tossing out, I voted for multiple flipped Bo7, advocated another to be vigged (albeit you chose two, but still - I'd been advocating on him for days)
Literally the only known scum I've been wrong on was Bulba.
The only town I've been wrong on was Nero, and I dropped my issue with him prior to his flip.
I also have a proven track record of specifically *not* bussing as scum - feel free to check.

I do think I'm functionally confirmed at this point to anyone who does even moderate research.

[Squirrel Girl]

The only way I'm scum is if I'm a 3rd party double voter, maybe with some extra powers.

[Squirrel Girl]

Same, but LOL D5 POLICY LYNCH!

Besides your role claim - what have you done that's particularly towning you?
And I'll even admit I believe there is probably one scum amongst the claimed puppets.

[Squirrel Girl]

Kagami/YnB/ActionDan/BBMolla/notscience (cuz lurking)/zmuffin

None of them would be my preferred option.
I'd probably be most willing for notscience or Action Dan one.

Can you talk me through your town read on Oversoul? You talked about chainsawing and I'm not sure what you meant or where.

[Squirrel Girl]

I like ProHawk's point about SG. Where is your double vote?

I dunno, in my cupboard or something?

It doesn't matter if the SK knows who is who. The problem is that a scum member can get an essentially positive false positive. The ultimate caught for the wrong reasons. Going down for making the SK kill. It is so incredibly bastard as a scum role that I'd frankly refuse to play another game by the same mod or reviewers.

How i that any negative utility different from a tracker tracking a town, getting a false positive, and declaring - forcing a mislynch and outing a town PR?

Vote: Majiffy]/b]

[Squirrel Girl]

Vote: Majiffy

[Squirrel Girl]

Shifting your claim to three shot when you realized I would demand more scum vouch than one should be a dead giveaway.

Wait, did Y&B claim three shot?

[Squirrel Girl]

Okay, yeah, that's screwy and skeevy.

Vote: BBMolla

[Squirrel Girl]

Unvote: Majiffy

Just to toy with people.
Also, wow, sudden flash wagon.

[Squirrel Girl]

Wasn't xof lynched for the whole 'there can only be one town JOAT' argument though?

No. That's not at all why I wanted her head in a noose.

It is why I did.

[Squirrel Girl]

MAJIFFY

who is scum

While we're at it, notscience, who do you have as scum?
I've been trying to also get that info out of Majiffy - but have managed to still play the game in addition to it. You're basically doing what you're complaining about him doing.

@Shos - I will (courteously) refuse to bother to full claim until you tell me what possible gain there is in it for town. I think we have enough people claiming odd demon/human/undead divining info that it would actually please me to see one of them try to clarify me for themselves, considering so many are open claimed at this stage. I'm really not sure how any of that matters much anyway.

[Squirrel Girl]

@YnB - how do you feel about the BBMolla wagon based on your 3-shot clarification? I don't think I've noticed you addressing that.