Tales of You (Endgame)

[Elementalhawk]

I'm finally caught up. My catch up post will come later tonight or tomorrow.

[Elementalhawk]

- Dice

[CupcakePanda]

This page is actually kind of beautiful. I don't even want to sully it with my presence. ffery gets a town lean and CF looks good too. The mutual pressuring seems right to me.

I should start bussing incessently then.

[Elementalhawk]

Is it normal for Titan to manipulate things with emotional blackmail?

I'm not seeing a town attitude towards demanding people prove they are town for the benefit of their mental state. Seems both forced and trying to stay in the upper hand.

This post by LB seems very genuine. Challenging Titan on something not understood seems more town likely than scum likely.

Also, horrid posts?

A player focusing entirely on the game setup and theme stands out as trying not to interact with the players.

And your hydra currently is demanding a few other people you know prove to you that they are town. The line of dialogue whereby you say how obvious it should be you are town suggests a self awareness you are playing up to a known town meta. And self awareness can be a scum tell.

By contrast I have seen rhymes, emotional blackmail, demands of obvious town play, discussion over the setup and one person pretending to be another person in they hydra. Horrid doesn't come close.

Not entirely sure what it is, but this is feeling town as well.

What is the game where a hydra with tammy in it was mafia?

Because there seems to be a trend here of letting a lot of stuff slide because 'that's tammy'. I want to see if this was a mistake made In That game or if people saw different things.

This goes along with the line of thinking I'm using. It just seems in a townies PoV to call out someone being mainly understood as town "because it's tammy".

f-16's post was terrible

cephrir is lolbuddying

ns is town(ish)

I have skipped every single nacho, nati/muffin, and mastin post.

Hey look I'm doing work!

@Tammy, I read your ISO more closely. I actually think you are pretty town now. So, the reason I didn't initially have a strong townread was that your post 53 felt a little aggressive because I assume Nacho would probably town himself up regardless but I do like the follow up in 74 asking ffery what she thought of Bork. I like the suspicion of me as well since you never read me wrong before, I assumed scum-you would townread me to keep it consistent. Post 126 looked really town as well and 129 mirrored my thoughts and the rest of your ISO feels town as well. My mistake.

What do you think of NotScience's posts so far?

~ F-16

This looks entirely fake. Basically looks like he took some of MastinSSK's original argument as the initial read, then when CF gets called out by Titan in the post above, the read takes a u-turn.

Hi Tammy!

You seemed to have sneezed or something at the end of giving your read on me- you added something after town.

I don't get where mastin's coming from at all regarding you being scum.

@F-16, While yes the interactions are

technically

fakeable, they felt genuine to me. I just felt like the conversation with me early came from a natural place.

Okay, I can see why you would think they are town. I am pretty sure their first post was prepared/null but the interaction came across as natural. I am not convinced that they are necessarily town though but the more Mastin posts, I should be able to get a read on him.
~ F-16

As soon as NS thinks that they are genuine, you instantly can tell what he's talking about. Looks like a slight buddy.

VOTE: Carbon Fiber.

Ah, heck with it.
VOTE: The Fox and the Hound.

VOTE: Titan.

These really throw me off. MastinSSK is really flip floppy here, and I don't like it.

And this is a vote to pressure her to speak up. I doubt a lynch can be made for her today.

Why do you feel the need to say it's a pressure vote out loud? This is bad because saying a vote is pressure weakens the effect of the pressure.

Clyton, in your breakdown of reads, you have Titan as leaning town and MastinSSK as leaning scum. You seem to be saying now that the debate between Mastin and Titan could involve either of them being scum. Why? Do you see merits to both sides of the arguments? Also, can you link to a couple of town and scum games that you've played offsite.
~ F-16

I only put Titan as leaning town and MastinSSK as leaning scum for the sake of a reads list; it really has no significance to what I really think except which stance I'm learning towards to. I see merits to both sides of the argument. I believe that when I think from either person's perspectives, I can easily be Town or Scum in both scenarios.

Also, the site I played cannot be viewed by outsiders unless you register an account. I can link you anyways, and you do the searching after making an account there. I will link you to a particular Death Note Mafia game where I was a SK with a bunch of other hidden abilities attributed to it. I believe that however unrefined my playstyle/meta was there, it still holds true to today.

If you want to question my playstyle/meta, then do so in a direct manner. I may have said that I wouldn't openly explain my meta bluntly, but it doesn't mean you can ask to fish out some information about myself from me.

This kinda worries me because what's the point of putting a read on people if it's not even significant? Looks like Clyton just wants to look decided on a matter in this post.

Reads so far

Town:
RedGyrados - Having just played a game with NS, this reminds me a lot like Town NS. Really feeling like this hydra is town.
LordBusiness - Business feels extremely genuine when he posts. I've liked what posts he has made so far, and would love to see more from him.
Titan - I've liked reactions to Mastin and am gut reading this slot town.

Leans town:
Fox and Hound - Their thoughts really felt amiss in the beginning, but as the game progressed I started to feel the engaging they were making was going somewhere.

Leans scum:
Clyton - Wanting to get more reactions, but the post above explain some of my position.
MastinSSK - This read is partly trusting in my hydra, and partly me thinking Titan is town, and the three votes in a row was really floppy.

Scum: CarbonFiber - His posts feel fake to me. As expressed above, his thoughts seem really flippy to what people around him saying. Really feel like I have hit scum here.

Everyone else, I don't really have a strong read on and need to engage more.

Sidenote - A lot of the meta discussion I don't really understand because I have played very little on this site, so I won't be using too much meta this game.

-3dice

[The Fox and the Hound]

And this is a vote to pressure her to speak up. I doubt a lynch can be made for her today.

Why do you feel the need to say it's a pressure vote out loud? This is bad because saying a vote is pressure weakens the effect of the pressure.

You're correct, but why is this scummy?

[CarbonFiber]

Elemental's post rubs me the wrong way. They're basically calling F-16 scum because his opinions change as he reads and re-reads the game. Very superficial analysis, considering that F-16's changes in opinion are responses to developments in the game, to re-reading, and have been explained. The non-committal suspicion on MastinSSK is also terrible, especially when combined with the analysis on us. I get the feeling that MastinSSK + Elemental are partners from this alone.

-FT

[CarbonFiber]

Point is, Elemental's basically doing one of those classic scum-tells -- calling Mastin + us scummy, but preparing to vote for us, not Mastin. Assuming Mastin is scum, Elemental is pretty much guaranteed scum.

-FT

[The Fox and the Hound]

Point is, Elemental's basically doing one of those classic scum-tells -- calling Mastin + us scummy, but preparing to vote for us, not Mastin. Assuming Mastin is scum, Elemental is pretty much guaranteed scum.

-FT

I seem to be missing what you're talking about here.

[CarbonFiber]

The thing where you attack both your partner and the guy attacking your partner, but vote for the guy attacking your partner. Pretty sure it's a classic scum-tell, though it doesn't really matter. I'm not a huge believer in objective scum-tells. What I'm trying to say is that Elemental is scummy, and he's scummy cause his post was massive shit.

-FT

[CarbonFiber]

Fox, what do you think of Breakfast? The whole bit where he says F-16's posts lack depth doesn't make sense. Thoughts?

[The Fox and the Hound]

I don't know that "depth" is the word I'd use to describe what she was complaining about. I also get the feeling that she simply feels something is off and is having trouble putting it into words. I'm beginning to lean town on them after the prodding of your slot last page, that's one of the things I'm looking for. Admittedly, I didn't think all that carefully about the way she went about it particularly. But as I expressed in 474, I have them in a bit of an uptrend at present. Also, how does it not make sense, anyway? Just with regard to it not being different from F-16's normal behavior?

[CarbonFiber]

It doesn't make sense because F-16's posts are some of the most in-depth analyses of behavior so far. Each of his town-reads was explained pretty damn thoroughly. You agree it was a poor word choice, right? I get having trouble putting thoughts into words. But why use the word "depth"? How does that relate to the explanation and follow-up thing? You seem to think the entire sequence was town, right? Help me understand Breakfast's thought process (and yours as well).

[The Fox and the Hound]

Depth does seem like the wrong word, yes. I can agree that F-16's townreads are explained pretty thoroughly.

I thought the exchange looked town because "this is the sort of thing ffery does normally", not because of the details. I'm certainly not sold enough on that to attempt to explain her thought process for her, and (perhaps selfishly) would have no objections to seeing that conversation continue anyway. I suppose I could take a stab at the follow-up element though, I could see it feeling a little like you're playing solitaire, getting reads but not pushing on them?

I think I'm a fan of you reaching out to me in the first place, but I'm afraid the art of the dance may yet be a bit beyond my reach.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

Fox, what do you think of Breakfast? The whole bit where he says F-16's posts lack depth doesn't make sense. Thoughts?

I wasn't talking about lack of analytic depth. There is plenty of depth to most of his analysis. I was referring to lack of depth in interaction.

I think his reasons for thinking Mac is town are good, and fit what I've seen in the past from him in terms of how he goes about forming reads.

[Brian Skies]

#45 may be the best Brian Skies post I've ever read.

Really now? Is my posting usually

that

bad?

What did you like about it?

Leaning town on the brian/notsci hydra. Mac seems pretty town so far. It will take me a good while to figure out the pirate unless I can sort Nati posts from zmuffin posts, and I think they're being pretty obscure about it right now.

I've liked what I've read out of the pirate's prose. Looks to be coming from a townish mindset.

And self awareness can be a scum tell.

Sometimes. But considering this is Tammy, I'm going to give you an emphatic no.

walking dead vibes, specially with gyarados, rancid, stalin, lord business, and titan. the latter two should nip their shit in the bud sooner rather than later.

Can you elaborate on this or am I going to have to actually read that game so I can understand your references to it?

Hey you should be happy it's only at five pages. Last time we all got together in hydras, there was what? 20 something pages in the first 24 hours.

I believe there were 120 pages in 72 hours in Anything Goes, and we didn't have that many hydras in that game.

Yo.

Mastin, here. I'm here to kill you all.

Lynch yourself.

However, the hyperbolic "emotional blackmail" and "demands" is odd regardless.

Not really. I get the same impression from you in our games. The only difference is that I read it as town (usually because it's accompanied by other townish statements so I just ignore your blatant AtE).

VOTE: PeregrineV

I don't really get his entrance about RVS voting when at the time we were out of RVS.

Don't make me lynch myself.

*Also, read my PM about communication. We need to get that settled.

-----
*Mastin might be town. Need to see more. (And here I was wanting to sacrifice Jesus to the blood gods >.> )

Eh, it looks vaguely townish.

It looks null.

Then he lets us know he did, in fact, get his role pm. I'm not sure why that pinged me, but it did.

I don't know about you, but I didn't get a role PM sent to my main.

He's played in enough games with me, as town and as scum, to not even entertain that.

I agree that this part is concerning.

His reads don't feel real.

That's because half of them are fake (he even tells you so). The ones that actually have some semblance of trajectory actually mirror mine to a degree.

Lulz

I think I may be swayed (146)

I'm fairly happy with Mac-town right now.

What is the game where a hydra with tammy in it was mafia?

Pretty sure she was scum in Anything Goes.

And if the NachoBorkdra ARE scum no one is ever going to lynch them, and in that case lynching us is probably a good idea actually because it's the only way they might be able to be stopped.

Nacho is dead to me right now. I don't know Bork that well.

I would lynch them if it came down to it.

/end 9

*I'll care more when Notty and I get our communication issues settled.

[Red Gyarados]

Spoiler:

#45 may be the best Brian Skies post I've ever read.

Really now? Is my posting usually

that

bad?

What did you like about it?

Leaning town on the brian/notsci hydra. Mac seems pretty town so far. It will take me a good while to figure out the pirate unless I can sort Nati posts from zmuffin posts, and I think they're being pretty obscure about it right now.

I've liked what I've read out of the pirate's prose. Looks to be coming from a townish mindset.

And self awareness can be a scum tell.

Sometimes. But considering this is Tammy, I'm going to give you an emphatic no.

walking dead vibes, specially with gyarados, rancid, stalin, lord business, and titan. the latter two should nip their shit in the bud sooner rather than later.

Can you elaborate on this or am I going to have to actually read that game so I can understand your references to it?

Hey you should be happy it's only at five pages. Last time we all got together in hydras, there was what? 20 something pages in the first 24 hours.

I believe there were 120 pages in 72 hours in Anything Goes, and we didn't have that many hydras in that game.

Yo.

Mastin, here. I'm here to kill you all.

Lynch yourself.

However, the hyperbolic "emotional blackmail" and "demands" is odd regardless.

Not really. I get the same impression from you in our games. The only difference is that I read it as town (usually because it's accompanied by other townish statements so I just ignore your blatant AtE).

VOTE: PeregrineV

I don't really get his entrance about RVS voting when at the time we were out of RVS.

Don't make me lynch myself.

*Also, read my PM about communication. We need to get that settled.

-----
*Mastin might be town. Need to see more. (And here I was wanting to sacrifice Jesus to the blood gods >.> )

Eh, it looks vaguely townish.

It looks null.

Then he lets us know he did, in fact, get his role pm. I'm not sure why that pinged me, but it did.

I don't know about you, but I didn't get a role PM sent to my main.

He's played in enough games with me, as town and as scum, to not even entertain that.

I agree that this part is concerning.

His reads don't feel real.

That's because half of them are fake (he even tells you so). The ones that actually have some semblance of trajectory actually mirror mine to a degree.

Lulz

I think I may be swayed (146)

I'm fairly happy with Mac-town right now.

What is the game where a hydra with tammy in it was mafia?

Pretty sure she was scum in Anything Goes.

And if the NachoBorkdra ARE scum no one is ever going to lynch them, and in that case lynching us is probably a good idea actually because it's the only way they might be able to be stopped.

Nacho is dead to me right now. I don't know Bork that well.

I would lynch them if it came down to it.

/end 9

*I'll care more when Notty and I get our communication issues settled.

Only slightly irritated right now.

[Mac]

@ElementalHawk

I'm wondering why you feel you've hit scum in CF and yet your vote hasn't moved? Also your reasons for suspecting Clyton are pretty weak, and barely enough to suspect someone for.

[Clyton]

And what exactly is wrong with my posts being "supposedly" reactionary Mr. Hawk? Am I not allowed to see how the person reacts? Must this be a lean towards a scum just for the sole fact that I'm trying to make myself important and innocent?

You must look at both sides. For example, even reminding the person this vote is a pressure vote has its benefits, and I clearly have gotten what I needed out of it from CupcakePanda.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Mac, ye deserter,
Ye treacherous scum,
Ye better watch yer back,
Because yer time will come

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Hey F16,
Are ye scum?
Muffin wants to battle ye,
I'm calling him dumb

-Nati

[Mac]

Mac, ye deserter,
Ye treacherous scum,
Ye better watch yer back,
Because yer time will come

I can still rhyme
And ye can still riddle
Together the pirates and I
can meet in the middle!

[The Fox and the Hound]

Really sorry, but I won't be able to do this tonight. I've told Ceph not to worry too much about my reads for the moment, but I'm hoping to be back in the swing of things by tomorrow night.

[Titan]

It is obvious who LordBusiness is but I won't reveal their alt if they are not willing. The content he provided seems off with regard to the gamestate. Calling Titan's posts "emotional blackmail" feels like a stretch but tonally he comes across as direct and forceful which makes me think he could be town.

~ F-16

I meant to ask this question last night. What made lord business go from "could be town" to your third strongest town read? And if his alt is obvious to you, how is he anything more than null right now? (I'm not asking for meta here in your response as I'm not interested in outing the alt, just trying to get at the basis for your read.)

[Lord Business]

With an entire game opened up in front of us and some genuine concerns raised all I see is cupcake panda attempting to troll their way out of suspicion.

I can kind of get the heavy reliance on meta done of you employ, although I do feel this "aren't I obvtown by now?" arguments to be easily used as a shield to actually needing to engage.

I even get the early game joking around when you are t being directly challenged on your posts.

But I'm not going to accept someone overselling the so scummy they can't be scum approach. Do my vote on cupcake panda feels all the more concrete the more they fail to do anything in this game of value.

I will have to express some thoughts in detail on the posts signed by F16, but carbonfiber is giving me reason for suspicion. Early interactions with people feel like they are hedging.

@titan, I read you saying you found it odd I was coming to a town read conclusion on you faster than others who know you better. Is that an issue regarding me or them? Because I am not going to wait in a queue while people you want to town read you first get there. I looked at too many heads mafia and felt your posting there if a reflection of your mafia game is far more noticeable and dare I day 'scummy' in the tactics you employ.
Here I have initially felt your hydra trying to force a dominance where people have to prove to you they are town, but I admit this may have been a premature reaction because you aren't the only one doing it. And your challenges on people have not employed any underhand emotional threats or fearmongering.
Even the explanation of why you handwaved me away with a threat to push my wagon while a flawed idea did at least make sense in the context of how it all played out.

And currently I have so few reads that feel actually town I can't afford to be stubborn in holding on to early impressions.

Will endeavour to broaden out a full set of reads soon, but I am starting to fall behind with the reading as it is.

[Mac]

Where the fuck and BROseidon and Desperado?