Consulmaker - Carthage wins!

[Raffles]

you are so going to the pits.

It's nice idea to vote to keep someone alive for a change. Can we make manifestos and such for the tribunal campaign? That'd rule.

Shotgun being a candidate.

[Raffles]

Vote for Tribune: Cephrir

Good idea.

Vote for Tribune: Raffles

[Raffles]

^I think they are just high on dictatorial crack.

*Is totally gonna be executed*

[Raffles]

But how is that different from 1 veto if it is in polar disagreement to the Consuls?

[Raffles]

If anyone wants to annoy the Consuls, vote for Battlus Magus!

[Raffles]

Yay! I got a vote!

BM, not complaining, but any reason?

[Raffles]

Is it always like this? I didn't know.

[Raffles]

Aren't they just kidding around because they have a week to waste? (I read the first page again, and it was hilarious )

Do you END UP getting killed on the first day? (Can someone else in this game testify for this? Then I'll strongly consider voting for you.)

Random musing of the post: I just had a thought. If by chance the Consuls are both scums, we are pretty screwed for today, aren't we...

[Raffles]

Panzerjager, I really don't like your claim.

If you are scum then convincing people with a power role like that on the first day is a clever idea. Double voter is clever because unless you exercise that power (which can easily be avoided) or have a cop check up on you, you won't have evidence against you, and it could be infuential in the other game (why it isn't in this case I'll go into later). Plus it doesn't really suit the flavour. (See previous bracket)

If you are a townie, why would you role claim just to be on the tribune

for the first day

? It is at such an early stage of a game too. Also, do you realize that double vetoing means nothing to Consuls? Consuls can lynch who they fancy, vetoes are merely there to try to get the Consuls to re-consider. (If I understand the game mechanics correctly) Plus claiming a power role is dangerous move because you can make yourself a target for the NK.

Clarify your thinking for me. Meanwhile

IGMEOY: Panzerjager

[Raffles]

EBWOP: "Plus it doesn't really suit the flavour" - thinking about it, it's more game mechanics than the flavour.

[Raffles]

1. You never said you weren't sure if it was smart to do, but I'll see off that point.

2. I wouldn't say it's a null point, if what you are claiming to be the game mechanics is true, then a double voter can be quite powerful. But we should wait for CES on this.

3. If your game mechanics is true, then you'd be good on the tribune spot. This confuses me in your post because you claim your role would be null. This is assuming "infinite execution on same person in a day" mechanics. However, the fact that you are suggesting you'd be good on the tribune spot is assuming "no execution on same person in a day" mechanics. I feel you are contradicting yourself here.

[Raffles]

Mastermind of Sin seems to be everyone's favourite choice. I assume he is a good player (never played with him). But I'd like to see his posts first before voting for him. We still have a week before electing a tribune.

[Raffles]

^I think second tribune would come naturally as a second popular choice. Remember that we have a week for this, and don't need to rush it. It's barely been 12 hours since the game started!

I don't know why everyone's voting for Mastermind of Sin so early. He hasn't made a single post yet and for all we know he could be a scum.

[Raffles]

Jesus we got until 8th of March to decide that...

[Raffles]

^ironic

[Raffles]

^I'm not saying we should, but why not? (Assuming he only gets extra vote when voted tribune)

[Raffles]

Zindy, I think your argumnet depends on how often a veto is used. I personally never played kingmaker before so I don't know, but someone else can fill me in for me on this one.

[Raffles]

On a contray, an unclutured one might say "You' re talking a load of crap".

[Raffles]

AndrewS - Well I'm not really feeling the MoS wagon either, everyone voted for him even before he made the first post. This is why my vote hasn't moved from myself, because I felt that I can't vote for MoS or anyone else unless they show me some sign of being a town.

[Raffles]

Maybe so, but I wouldn't rush to risk electing someone who could be a scum even if he was a good player.

[Raffles]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being picky on you, MoS. I'm just curious why you had something like 4 votes (2 from Consuls) even before you made a single post.

And that last post is WIFOM-debatable. It's basically a twisted version of saying, "if I was a scum, I would make sure I'm not acting scummy"

[Raffles]

What other criterium do you suggest we use when he have virtually nothing to go on?

As I have tried to push (and failed) so many times, we have a week to elect a tribune. In a normal mafia game, a week might be enough to get some way through discussion. It might give an insight into who could more likely be a scum, and who could less likely be a scum. And I can't see how consulmaker would be any different. I would have preferred to have some discussion with the person in question before voting on someone other than myself.

[Raffles]

Yes, it finally seems so.

[Raffles]

Is this counting or discounting your supreme argument between you and Zindy?

[Raffles]

But jokes aside, for the moment I don't find you scummy. I think my vote would be better used electing the second tribune as you seem to be comfortably going to be elected anyway.

AndrewS, are you convinced now that I can make posts of substance, when the time is right?

Tribunal Vote Count

Mastermind of Sin - 5(Zindaras, Primate, TheEyeOfMordor, ~N9V~, Toaster Strudel)
Raffles - 4(Raffles, Cephrir, Battle Mage, Panzerjager)
Kison - 1(mole)
Cheesefan - 1(Kison)
Rand Althor - 1(Rand Althor)
mole - 1(AndrewS)
Panzerjager - 1(livingod)

[Raffles]

the question wasn't whether or not you could make substantial posts, it was whether you actually had. In other words - there is absolutely no reason for you to have such following - yet you do. Why?

I think whether I actually had posted anything of substance depends upon whether there was actually anything I could make a comment on, but it's a bit side-tracking the question so I'll put it at the end.

The reason why I want to prove this is because I want to vote for you. You would make a good tribune. I don't think I'd be in disagreement with anyone over that. But if I elect you as a tribune, I'm scared that you'd be hellbent on tryng to lynch me rather than judging me fairly, the reason being the vote itself no less.

(i.e. You FoSed me, I vote for you. What does that look like?)



As for the circumstances, so far at page 8, there has been 3 "serious" topics.

1. Panzerjager's role claim
2. The trigger happy attitude of the Consuls
3. Mastermind of Sin

1. I commented on, and had a discussion over.
2. I dismissed it as a joke almost immediately so saw no point in doing so.
3. I repeatedly commented on, but no one seemed to take notice.

It's a bit strange that you FoS on me on this basis, when there are so many others that has posted single figure number of posts, with no more than couple of lines. I understand that this is not the only factor, the thing that twigged you is this and the bandwagon together. I cannot comment on the bandwagon, I can't make a bandwagon on myself. This is for the others who voted for me to explain why they have.

[Raffles]

MoS, the way I see it, I want two qualities from tribune.

1. Ability to construct a good argument.
2. Fairness
(3. Not a scum (obv))

I'm saying AndrewS is very good at 1, hence he would make a good tribune. But I'm also saying his accusation on me is unfair, and I want to see if he still thinks it was a fair attack.

[Raffles]

Raffles, my FOS was much less on you and much more on Cephirir, Battle Mage and Panzer. It seemed rather opportunistic that BM and Panzer would vote for someone who defended them, and Cephirir really provided no reason. Of the four on that wagon, I find you the least scummy, because I can understand a self-vote. And yes, I realize that you have commented on the major issues in the game, but I felt that at the time that they placed their votes, there was not enough evidence to support you as tribune.

That's fairer. I'm happy with that.

Vote: AndrewS

[Raffles]

Don't poke me, I know this game exists. I'm swamped in work atm and can't really post anything of detail until the weekend.

[Raffles]

Ai so hectic week finished. So I propose an idea...

we could weigh everyone against a geese, and the person who comes out the same weight as a geese is the imposter.

No wait, that's Monty Python...

Should we maybe keep a fake vote count, just to keep a track of who wants to lynch who?

[Raffles]

AndrewS, at the risk of protecting Cephrir, I think your suspicion is misplaced.

In a game like this where you vote 2 to give them a limited power (whereas a town have none), it is natural to pick those that who would protect your interests (i.e. staying alive) scum or not.

Suppose Charlie(Townie) was 99% positive the Alice and Bob were townie. Alice and Bob are likely to become tribunes. But if Alice and Bob suspected Charlie as being most scummy, then Charlie would not vote for Alice or Bob, because if Charlie was set up by a scum Zorro, then neither Alice or Bob would use their veto power to save him.

Incidentally, this was why I was hesitant to place my vote for you.

[Raffles]

Let's all lynch BM crew? You mean a band wagon? I see no band wagon. Sounds terribly OMGUS-esque to me...

[Raffles]

It was apparently a random vote, so your vote reason on Cephrir is completely unwarranted. And since the tribunes were elected, there were no such wagon. If anything, I find your paranoia-like retaliation suspicious.

FoS: Battle Mage

[Raffles]

Hmm I know nothing of Roman history. Until this game, I thought Hannibal was a character out of a film/book. But anyway...

I hear people saying we need to get certain lurkers to talk. Why not do something rather than just talking about it? I suggest a wagon.

Vote: livingod

[Raffles]

Oh god yes, I remember the A-team. My friend had a right obssession with it and made me watch it every week. Mr. T. was the best, obv.

[Raffles]

That's rather bloodthirsty of you.

We hardly got out of the "awkwardness" stage, and pushing for a lynch alreadY?

[Raffles]

I'm sorry but I'm going to be away on a camp until 22nd. Replace me if that is needed, if not, I'll be well and back to play then.

[Raffles]

Hmm I'm a bit perplexed, if that's the right word to describe how I'm feeling.

Zindie - why N9V? There were others on livingod wagon as well. Me being one of them. I read back N9V's post, and he's only made 4. His posts didn't have much content, so to me, this would twig as nothing more than a potential lurker. Yet there were other candidates for lurking; Rand Althor, Ubertimmy, Toaster Strudel, to name a few. But you managed to hunt out a scum from virtually nothing.

This gets me to few lemmas. It could be either;

1. It was entirely by fluke accident that scum was executed.
2. You are scum, and you executed your scum mate to solidify yourself as a town.

(3. Or you are, in fact, an all knowing god)

So why was it N9V rather than other lurkers, or others on livingod wagon?

[Raffles]

Inactive - if they are inactive now, why would electing them as a tribune make them active? If anything, they would sit on their arses even more because they can't get executed.

Scummy - I can see a few positives, but how would you go around electing a scummy one without telling him he is scummy? I mean, try electing BM. How much would you have to stretch reason to convince him that he was elected because he would make a good tribune?

[Raffles]

Vote: Zindy

I also note that everyone is avoiding discussion.

[Raffles]

Was never intended as insult, more of an observation. There's no denying that others think you are scummy, and you know this too.

[Raffles]

Exactly. You are so used to it in all games that if I told you I want to elect you as tribune because you would make a good one, would you believe it?

[Raffles]

And the point I'm making is that by the same token, if X had suspicion on him on the first day, but then everyone next day suddenly wanted to elect him as a tribune because he would make a good one, then X is less inclined to believe it.

[Raffles]

jeez, I am not patronizing you, I'm just putting you up as an unfortunate but obvious example. (That did sound patronizing, didn't it? Not meant to be)

[Raffles]

BM... I don't know what to say.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mago_Barca

And you shouldn't even need to look for it, I mean...

Carthaginian

Relief Force

Commander

[Raffles]

I did not find Battle Mage's comment particularly scummy, though, just for the record.

There's a first.

Tribunal Vote Count

Primate - 5(Zindaras, livingod, Panzerjager, Kison, TheEyeOfMordor)
Zindaras - 4(Primate, Cephrir, TheJiveMachine, Raffles)
Panzerjager - 1(HackerHuck)

[Raffles]

*sigh*

Let's get some discussion going guys. Maybe a competition might help. The definite tribune is probably killing it.

Unvote, Vote: Twito

[Raffles]

For probably the first time ever, I agree wholly with Kison's last two posts.

I don't have any intention to elect Twito as a tribune. The sole reason I did it is to get people talking.

Unvote, Vote: Zindaras

[Raffles]

*smack head*

*sigh*

Let's get some discussion going guys. Maybe a competition might help. The definite tribune is probably killing it.

Unvote, Vote: Twito

For probably the first time ever, I agree wholly with Kison's last two posts.

I don't have any intention to elect Twito as a tribune. The sole reason I did it is to get people talking.

Unvote, Vote: Zindaras

Change in tone???

[Raffles]

Has it crossed your mind that today is the deadline?

[Raffles]

Ai... for your sake, I'll start from the beginning, and put it all together for you.
Deadline = Today (Saturday)

No. 475 (Monday)
Primate - 5
Zindie - 4

No. 480 (Thursday)
Primate - 5
Zindie - 4
Twito - 2

No. 483 (Thursday) - Me getting fed up with lack of discussion, so decided to move my vote.
Primate - 5
Zindie - 3
Twito - 3

No. 487 (Friday, deadline -1) - Accounting it is less than 24 hours, and maybe I won't be able to come online again before deadline, I switch it back.
Primate - 5
Zindie - 4
Twito - 2

Did you honestly think I would want Twito as a tribune? He hasn't shown me any qualities I desire from one. My vote on Twito generated a limited amount of discussion, but I was more hoping for Twito to come out and get involved in the discussion himself. This is why I bothered to move it. It had nothing to do with actually wanting Twito to be a tribune.

[Raffles]

Any reason why I had a double voting ability there, CES?

[Raffles]

Fair dos, I'm not worried about it then (I think...)

[Raffles]

What on earth...

Am I dumb? I don't get it. What just happened?

[Raffles]

So... he killed himself? Where's the point in that?

[Raffles]

Bastard:lol:

Got me good though, kudos for that.

[Raffles]

I'm going to vote

livingod

in the far-fetched hope that he is going to contribute something more interesting.

[Raffles]

arrrgh crap,

Vote: livingod

[Raffles]

I think Kison, Battle Mage and Raffles would all be reasonable executions for the day.

Already down to 3? Why is that?

[Raffles]

I'm quite concerned by the fact that Zindie has already decided to execute one of three without taking into consideration of anyone else, or without doing any discussion. What's worse, you don't give any other reason for any of the three of us other than gut (from what I gather, or have I missed something?).

[Raffles]

Kison, I don't care how he was caught in other games. To say that he is only scum when he contradicts himself is fairly silly.

But to say BattleMage is probably a scum because he is acting scummy is even sillier. We all know that is not how it works with BM.

[Raffles]

But to say BattleMage is probably a scum because he is acting scummy is even sillier. We all know that is not how it works with BM.

You can't allow the guy to get away with posting scummy things every time simply because "it's just BM". I will not allow him to simply post whatever the hell he wants and not be expected to validate any of his suspicions.

That sounds like you don't really care if he's a scum or not, but we should execute him anyway because he is BM.

[Raffles]

Exactly. BM, for the most part, is always scummy.

[Raffles]

What? I don't understand that anology at all.

And to answer your question, it depends. I could be long sighted, or the book is written in the language I don't understand. But I would doubt it's because the writing is scribbly.

[Raffles]

Maybe BM is the book in different language, and maybe we should try and learn the new language rather than trying to piece together from the only language you are compatible with called "scum-tell". That's my take.

[Raffles]

You still haven't explained to me why you find me scummy.

[Raffles]

im a BOOK now?
alright then: HOW THE HELL IS THE BOOK USING THE COMPUTER KEYBOARD????
Nah seriously, Raffles is right. In your scenario, you try and read the book, but end up convincing yourself that the half-truth you have learnt is correct, when actually it isnt. On the other hand, Raffles chooses not to read the unclear book, instead making opinions of his own.
In this analogy, Raffles probably watched the film

with subtitles

.
BM

Okay... I think you have totally missed our points, but nevermind.

So tell me why you think Zindie is scummy.

[Raffles]

Okay I'm going to have a restricted access starting immediate until 16th. I may or may not be able to post once a day. I hope you don't find a need to replace me.

[Raffles]

I like this little exercise, MoS. Mind if I borrow it for other games?

Hackerhuck

~mole era~
Only one post, tribunal vote for Kison. Not much to read on it's own.

~Hackerhuck era - Day 1~
Starts off with a brief yet concise player analysis. I'm quite dissapointed by his choice of vote after such effort gone into it. I suppose it's either he was careful not to link any of the activities to his suspicions, or not having much suspicion at this point entirely.

Makes a reasonable comment about looking to put pressure on lurkers rather than BM.

Pretty much goes with the flow for rest of the day, no attempt to stir things up. On hindsight, I would have thought he might have found ubertimmy more suspicious based on what he said, but then N9V was a lurker too. I don't see anything inconsistent of his activity in Day 1 and his analysis post.

~Hackerhuck era - Day 2~
He votes Zindie for Tribune, but then soon unvotes for Panzerjager. He suggests we should pick a mix, but I don't quite get what he means by this. Picking randomly off a shelf is not a good idea. My bet is to best stick to the players who can make the most fair decisions.

Still does not like livingod. Understandable, I don't like his lack of contribution either.

From here on, I agree with Kison that Consuls should be actively looking for a scum, and not leave the town to do their businness. Consuls are ultimately responsible for putting a scum on a noose, no other position can do this.

[Raffles]

Ummm I'm still doing Kison, but has anybody noticed the slight inconvenience that is our deadline? (21st)

[Raffles]

BM, you have a case of superiority complex there.

[Raffles]

Well, you seem to have got it in your head that you are the lord of all worlds.

[Raffles]

lol im not even sure why im dignifying you with a response. ive given my argument, and its been previously clarified, before it got lost in the crash. however, i cant resist hammering the nail in the coffin when i catch scum

you already had your opportunity to defend yourself from the case, and those who were active will know that you failed tremendously.

Reads to me like "Bow down to me, you inferior scum! (Pun intended)" I felt uncomfortable because I saw appeal to emotion.

[Raffles]

I find that list interesting, because it's an identical list to Zindie except Zindie is in it.

[Raffles]

Also, Kison, BM and I are only people voting for livingod. MoS, if you agree with Zindie, why is he on the list?

[Raffles]

its also highly concerning that you feel prepared to make an execution without any real judgements on the targets.
i would expect a player of your capacity at Mafia, to have the inclination to actually look closer than (as Raffles pointed out) 4 of the most active players. I can see some reasons behind Kison and Zindy, but i dont think either of them can be the lynch for today (and Zindy is tribune, so i suspect he would choose to protect himself)
As for me and Raffles, i cant see ANY logic there. Considering the amount of time most of us have spent analysing individual players, im a bit put out that you cannot do the same for us in your reign as leader...
And wth isnt TEOM on the list?
BM

Note that I wasn't concerned because it is the 4 most active players. What interested me is that MoS put together a list, that was exactly identical to Zindie's except one difference. Zindie was also in it. Zindie is a weird choice because if you put together a LoE list which is in complete agreement with someone, why include someone who made the list originally in it?

Nope, Zindie has failed to give me reasons even after a repeated request and I would vote for him because of this if he wasn't a tribune.

MoS, why identical list to Zindie, but Zindie included?

[Raffles]

I'm not sure I would use "completely avoided" as the right word. I don't find his actions deeply scummy or in dire need of deep analysis (which reminds me - I forgot. Do you still want it?). I just don't get the scummy vibes off him that the both Consuls and the Tribunes has got it in the head of. Sure the way you pointed out relying on Consuls is a bad strategy. But the way I see it, Consuls are the only one who can execute. It doesn't hurt to at least see what's on their minds, we would have somewhere to start. If it is a scum Consul then even more so, because it would put the thoughts him/er under scrutiny, and if the town don't agree with the Consuls, voila. We have a one dodgey Consul. The word I would use is "ignored".

[Raffles]

BM - this is no quicklynch. It's a latest lynch can go whilst taking in account of vetoing.

[Raffles]

So you are telling me, there are ten of us in the game, and almost half of them are lurking?

Mod

Could you pester them until they write something meaningful?

As for me, I'm gonna go and investigate Hackerhuck and Primate's posts...

[Raffles]

Is it a bit of ongoing theme that you two has to be at each other's necks in every game?

[Raffles]

Reviewing Primate and Hackerhuck.

Primate: In agreement with TEOM. Primate did protect Cephrir without giving much reason. His reasons are "his style of play is much more in line with the games where he is a townie". Which doesn't really tell me anything in my opinion.

Inconsitency comes when Shanba FoSed Cephrir and Primate said, "You're thinking on the same track as I am". I did not spot this at first, maybe Primate was referring to the rest of the analysis, and saying correlation with his thoughts are high? Regardless, I would like to hear some of Cephrir's opinions. It would be very unlikely for me to vote Cephrir for tribune.


Hackerhuck: I was looking for some evidence of breadcrumbing - until I realized no kills have been roleblocked so far. So he wouldn't know what effect he might have had on the game.

[Raffles]

No reason not to change your stance if you can see and admit that you are wrong. It's far sillier and detrimental to stick to something that you know to be wrong.

[Raffles]

I'm going to rate it in terms of scum-range, and also anti-town.

Cephrir: Defended by Primate, rather empty reasoned, and based on gut feeling more than anything else. Virtually inactive. But the thing with lurker is there is absolutely no lead to deduce their alignment.

Scum:

6

Anti-town:

8

Battle Mage: Reminds me of classic head-stuck-up-the-arse stereotype. Repeatedly hounded EOTM, for what to me is an unfounded reason, because I wasn't here before the crash. Won't stop bickering with MoS, which is remotely amusing at best and downright annoying during most. Although at times he does make a good observation. If he is to be protown, I advise to stop at the observation and maybe let others work out the possible implications.

Scum:

5

Anti-town:

7

MoS: Terribly unsure. I get the feeling that if he's a scum, I would never be able to tell. I find the reasons for Kison's execution not very strong, but I guess it was that or execute a lurker. The fact that he set a execution order in time so that others can veto it makes me think he's a protown. Concerning LoE list, I don't think he should have put it up without backing it up with a proper reason. Seems a bit empty reasoned thing to do.

Scum:

3/4

Anti-town:

2

[Raffles]

What part of the numbering scale do you not understand? Gradation from 1 being don't agree at all to the statement, to 9 being totally agreeing with the statement.

[Raffles]

Scum => anti-town

Anti-town =/= Scum

(For those who don't do maths, => means "implies")

Makes me wonder why you are not familiar with these equations, BM.

[Raffles]

Because certain people can be so anti-town but be so enigmatic about their alignment. That's why I had to make a distingusishment.

[Raffles]

We can't execute Zindie today regardless. The case is very interesting and plausible though, so I'll keep it in mind.

[Raffles]

We really should be looking for second tribune. CES seems to have got lazy, and I don't trust myself doing vote counts due to my past experience of cocking them up. At the moment, I see two possible candidates.

Yosarian 2
Pros - Consistency in his posts he made so far. Active poster. Experienced.
Cons - His predecessors were both lukrers, still no realistic read on his alignment.

Mastermind of Sin
Pros - Sharp observations. + my read on him (I'm not saying this should affect your judgement) is pro-town. Experienced.
Cons - Just executed a townie. Pro-town as he may seem, I don't think his alignment is readable. Had the power for previous two days, and probably best to put him in the common position to see how he reacts.

After some consideration, I think

Vote: Yos for tribune

is better choice of the two.

[Raffles]

Will you stop discussing who has the bigger penis and get back to the task at hand, finding second tribune.

[Raffles]

Have I missed something? Who's the first? TEOM got unvoted.

[Raffles]

One thing I want to be clear with Zindaras is the execution regarding N9V. Yes, he did make a clear analysis, but the reasons for executing was rather reliant on gut. Yes?

As much as I do trust my gut, in the game like this, I would be a little more careful about using gut as a reason for execution. In this game Consuls effectively hold all the vote. I would rather use it as a safety zone to fall back to, rather than my main reason for execution. If you get what I mean.

[Raffles]

Hey everyone, I apologize about my week of absence. I only have one more exam to go now, on wednesday...

Does anyone want my opinion on anything? I've read through what I missed but there were fair few topics that seemed quite involved and I don't think I quite got the jist of what was going on...

[Raffles]

I'm truely sorry I've been absolutely useless this day. It's just my luck to have my exam period coincide right on top of when I get the tribune position. It's just finished a few days ago, (and after few partyings) I'm now back for properly.

I'm on same reasoning MoS here. Too much cons than pros. No veto from me.

[Raffles]

Argh, who chose me as a Consul at such a bad time! Imbecile!

I give a pre-warning that I'm not around between 4-8th because I'm away camping again. I apologize about this.

As a Consul, I'll consider everyone fairly. My opinion on Zindaras-SK theory (elephantisis one) is far-fetched, but not impossible. I am not eliminating anyone (save Occult and the to-be-elected tribunes) as candidates for execution.

[Raffles]

Guys, I've been prodded so I'll post. I'm reading steadily and I'm currently on page 42.

[Raffles]

People who can be executed today is as follows
Yos2
Sarcastro
Rand Al
Twito
BM
MoS

Of which can be split into two camps. Lurk camp and active camp.

Lurk Camp

Sarcastro
Rand Al
Twito

Active camp

Yos2
MoS
BM

Then the first question I ask is "Is it possible to execute someone from the lurk camp?" Often lurking alone is not really a good enough reason to execute. Reason why active camp has more chance of biting the dust. But as the day1 shows, n9v was a lurk-scum, which makes me look into this option just as much as anyone else.

Now these lurkers are some of the most blatant hardcore ones I've seen. Ubertimmy tops it, Rand Al pretends to make useful contributions, which is basically a one liner replies to some of battlemage's posts. Majority of twito's posts are not remotely useful either.

*******

I'll put this up for now. More later. I got to go for lunch and won't be back until late evening.

[Raffles]

Rand, do you believe BM and Raffles are scumbuddies?

I belive that if Raffles is scum, BM is also scum. On the flip side if BM is scum it doesn't nessecarally mean Raffles is also scum. I'm ok with a BM or Raf lynch pretty much.

So the only condition there is here is given that I'm a scum, then BM must be a scum? Otherwise you don't know anything. Who do you want to see executed today?

[Raffles]

I've decided I will not execute a lurker, but I will not veto a lurker.

I would like to execute Rand very much, also having played with him in mafia 62, and he's giving me the same vibes that he gave me in that game as well as this. But I've been so poor in keeping terms with all my games that it would be blatant hypocriticism. I just don't do that, even if it might hinder me with scum-hunting.

Occult, woulf you consider an execution of lurker? If I were forced to, I would do BM.

[Raffles]

I fear if I don't do this, nothing will be done.

Execute: BM

[Raffles]

I think sarcastro is a good call for tribune.

Vote: Sarcastro

[Raffles]

Shanba, I don't think that is right. Tribune do have power, they are just choosing not to use them. The fact that Consuls are usually on the same wavelength as citizens means they don't really have to use the veto. I don't think there has been a single veto issued in this game, from Consul or tribune.

[Raffles]

Oh shiiiiit, a week? When is the new deadline? 17th? Yep, I've been prodded, I'll have a look at last few days now and see if anything pops out...

[Raffles]

Yeh ok ok! I'm here, jeez... I had no idea this game had started. And I've just started working too...

Doesn't town lose once there are no Consulmaker left in the game? I thought those were the rules. Or can town with roles become Consulmaker too?

I don't see how mass claim would help, scums most likely have safe claims?

[Raffles]

Aiai cap'n.

Gaius Terentius Varro. Apparently after the miserable failure that was Cannae, I became paranoid. I kill anyone that targets me at night.

[Raffles]

I'm thinking the best kill would be one on Raffles. There is not much information about his role on Wikipedia and I belive he chose a out of the way role claim.

Vote:Raffles

Neither is Marcellus, but you don't see me bitchin. I mean, look at Cato. HUGE wiki.

Anyway, Sarcastro?

[Raffles]

Sarcastro, on what basis do you believe Rand's claim so strongly? Because I'm taking everyone's claim with more a mountain of salt than a pinch. In anoother words, I'm not taking any of these claims seriously.

[Raffles]

Why not, I don't know what happens in Consulmaker when prisoner's gambit happens, but I'm all game for a bit of fun.

claim: Sk

[Raffles]

sarcastro, your claim is due?

[Raffles]

Hey, real SK, now would be a good time to counterclaim.

Rand, where are you? Now is not the time to lurk.

I forgot what I was missing. All this time being chased after work and not having time on mafiascum... yes. If there is indeed another SK, he should claim too. In fact, why not go on mass antagonist claim orgy?

[Raffles]

I'm not at all seeing how I am related to BM?

[Raffles]

Ooooh how crafty.

[Raffles]

I genuinely thought Cephrir being SK, and I was quite sure I was the dead bet for that day. So I thought I would at least try to put a doubt in Sarcy's mind to even the chance for us to win - it wasn't like I expected Sarcy to believe me, but I thought it was worth a shot to have the possibility of Cephrir being executed. Turns out Sarcastro was the bloody SK >.<. Didn't really see that one coming.

Ah well we won in the end.

[Raffles]

And my god the game took 4 months to finish... I'm taking a break from biggie games. Back to mini normal/theme for me I think.

[Raffles]

Oh no, I know there are far longer games... it's just that I really can't see my schedule 5 months ahead, as I don't really lead a regular life.

[Raffles]

How fitting it is that the Hannibal is the last Carthaganian general left alive.

I'm guessing it was endgamed because you couldn't make anymore Consulmaker, corrrect?

[Raffles]

Meh... everyone seemed to have caught on Scum-raffles since about Zindy being Consul for second time. I seemed to have managed to fly just below the radar for the whole time though. What was the biggest tell? Because I thought I set myself out as solid pro-town at the beginning.

[Raffles]

Ya SK is my favourite for that reason. No one else can blame me for my failures.

[Raffles]

Guys, guys, game's finished?

Sarcastro, tough shit. Rules are rules and you gotta make the best of it. I'm sure you are intelligent enough to know this happens in real world, and nothing would change by one person bitching.

BM, stop winding him up.


Live with it, m'kay?

[Raffles]

I'm going to take that as a sarcasm. :p

[Raffles]

Buyt honestly, what on earth do you intend to achieve?

[Raffles]

I ask this thread to be locked.

[Raffles]

I ask this thread to be locked.

[Raffles]

I didn't kill you, I targetted AndrewS. SK did the same too so you must have been targetted by a vig.

[Raffles]

Yea that really confused me when I stomped on AndrewS. I thought it was just a mistake by CES and just carried on.

[Raffles]

Did we actually suggest TS...? I don't remember.

[Raffles]

Cephrir is baaad. He lieeeees. Team Carthage played no part in your death... it's more likely that you killed yourself through lurking. Up until ZIndie's execution, only battle mage briefly FoSed you. Otherwise, there was absolutely no mention of you until Zindie made his execution post.

[Raffles]

CES, could you tell me the mechanics of how n9v might have joined?

[Raffles]

None of us did. We were just told that the relief force commander was present.