Consulmaker - Carthage wins!


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Post Post #775 (ISO) » Tue May 01, 2007 9:01 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Yosarian2 wrote:Yeah, I could support that.
vote:Raffles
. However, if MOS would like to clarify exactally why he thought Raffles was scummy enough to be on his LOE yesterday, that might be helpful; the only argument he made was he suggested a possible Raffles/Kirson link, which is obveously now irrelvent. Any other reasons for your suspicions on Raffles yesterday, MOS?
Most of the suspicion I saw was based on a connection between the two, which is why I went with Kison instead.

Tribunal Vote Count

Raffles - 3(Cephrir, Shanba, Yosarian2)
TheEyeOfMordor - 1(Mastermind of Sin)
Yosarian2 - 1(Battle Mage)
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Post Post #776 (ISO) » Tue May 01, 2007 10:11 am

Post by TheEyeOfMordor »

My real guess is that Yos is the only other choice for BM, he wouldn't want to be seen voting for me or MoS for Tribune...
The thing is, that we have gotten to a point where experiance is not where I would put a Tribune vote, it is from peoples actions that I will judge them.
I have never liked Raflles all that much TBH, although that may be due to the fact that I disliked the Raffles wagon immensely because it was loose and the sort of wagon that scum would hop onto.
I disagree with BM getting the Tribune vote, as he still hasn't shown my ridiculous scumminess and his play in my opinion hasn't been all to good.
Lurkers are lurkers, and I would not give a lurker my vote. Their actions are not the sort of actions I would want to see from a Tribune, and definately not from a Consul.
I will not vote for Yosarian2 today, I want to see him play out a day first before I make up my mind on him.
I will not vote for MoS today, he has had enough power for a while, if he is scum he could screw us.
I will not self vote.
Therefore I will abstain from voting for Tribune.
And where are our Consuls?!
In the name of Mark Lazarus....
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Post Post #777 (ISO) » Tue May 01, 2007 10:42 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

I understand why I didn't self-vote Day 1, but when there are no other options for Tribune, there is no good reason NOT to self-vote.
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Post Post #778 (ISO) » Tue May 01, 2007 12:14 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

Agreed. Why wouldn't a pro-town vote himself if there were no better options? ARe you just trying to look good, TEOM?
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #779 (ISO) » Tue May 01, 2007 2:08 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

unvote
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Post Post #780 (ISO) » Tue May 01, 2007 7:40 pm

Post by TheEyeOfMordor »

There really isn't any real good reason that I am not self voting. Except that I just stated that I wouldn't. Which would make it hypocritical if I did.
Yos said that maybe I was trying to look good. What good would that do when it looks bad?
I have no real reason not to selfvote, and there is some reasoning to do so, except that I made a statement and intend today to stick by it(unless by some wierd chance BM becomes a real candidate). Consistancy is the only real thing I have, and I think sticking to it is a good thing.
In the name of Mark Lazarus....
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Post Post #781 (ISO) » Tue May 01, 2007 9:44 pm

Post by Raffles »

No reason not to change your stance if you can see and admit that you are wrong. It's far sillier and detrimental to stick to something that you know to be wrong.
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Post Post #782 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2007 7:51 am

Post by Zindaras »

I want
everyone
to give their opinions on Battle Mage, Cephirir and MoS.
Show
Finished: 159 (120 Town, 33 Mafia, 5 Other, 1 Cult, 4 Cultivated)
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
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Post Post #783 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2007 8:00 am

Post by TheEyeOfMordor »

Thoughts about them(Without reread)
Cephrir: Has been lurking. Mentioned by the scum Primate at least once, perhaps twice. Haven't felt anything specific from him other then lurkiness. However I think he has a higher scum chance rate then some other lurkers.
BM: Has played rather aggressively. Used Day 2 to start a case against me, and has continued to go on about it even though he hasn't given any proof. Day 3 however he has slowed down a bit, turning more attention to MoS, like in Day 1. As I said BM + Zindaras scumgroup has very little %. His play strikes me as "You are scum, therefore everything you do is scummy". I used the term hammerheading as well over this mentality.
MoS: I get the feeling he has been trying to be one of the leading players in this game. He has been playing rather solidly, although he did slay Kison the Townie. I feel like he has put quite a bit of effort in to this game, like I have. I am not sure how to read him though. He definately deserves scrutiny about his motives though.
Anything more you need?
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Post Post #784 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2007 8:07 am

Post by Zindaras »

Please say exactly where you put them in your scum-range, on a 1 to 9 scale. (1-3 being town, 4-6 being unsure, 7-9 being scum. (1 to 9 to make the gradations nicer)
Show
Finished: 159 (120 Town, 33 Mafia, 5 Other, 1 Cult, 4 Cultivated)
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
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Post Post #785 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2007 8:15 am

Post by TheEyeOfMordor »

Cephrir = 7
BM = 4
MoS = 6
In the name of Mark Lazarus....
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Post Post #786 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2007 8:34 am

Post by Raffles »

I'm going to rate it in terms of scum-range, and also anti-town.

Cephrir: Defended by Primate, rather empty reasoned, and based on gut feeling more than anything else. Virtually inactive. But the thing with lurker is there is absolutely no lead to deduce their alignment.

Scum:
6
Anti-town:
8



Battle Mage: Reminds me of classic head-stuck-up-the-arse stereotype. Repeatedly hounded EOTM, for what to me is an unfounded reason, because I wasn't here before the crash. Won't stop bickering with MoS, which is remotely amusing at best and downright annoying during most. Although at times he does make a good observation. If he is to be protown, I advise to stop at the observation and maybe let others work out the possible implications.

Scum:
5
Anti-town:
7



MoS: Terribly unsure. I get the feeling that if he's a scum, I would never be able to tell. I find the reasons for Kison's execution not very strong, but I guess it was that or execute a lurker. The fact that he set a execution order in time so that others can veto it makes me think he's a protown. Concerning LoE list, I don't think he should have put it up without backing it up with a proper reason. Seems a bit empty reasoned thing to do.

Scum:
3/4
Anti-town:
2
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Post Post #787 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2007 9:12 am

Post by Battle Mage »

does this include me?
Zindaras wrote:I want
everyone
to give their opinions on Battle Mage, Cephirir and MoS.
Battle Mage-1 I KNOW im town! :P
MoS-7 Im not positive by any means, but i have a feeling that he could be scum. His behaviour has been unhelpful at the best of times. One of the main suspects at this point.
Cephrir-6 I wasnt sure the case on him, so i reread him. His logic has been poor, and his time in the game has been of surprising little use. His only real commitment was to agree to a Kison lynch. Could well be scum, but not the best candidate for today i dont think.

BM

*also Raffles, i dont understand how your numbers are meant to be scaled? :?
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #788 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2007 9:21 am

Post by Raffles »

What part of the numbering scale do you not understand? Gradation from 1 being don't agree at all to the statement, to 9 being totally agreeing with the statement.
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Post Post #789 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2007 9:25 am

Post by Cephrir »

Well, seeing my assignment now I see that it's irrelevant. Ubertimmy is lurking, Primate is dead scum so anything I say about him seems silly. So, on to the topic at hand.

Me: Obviously, I know I'm town, -78/9

BM:
As we all know, BM is a ridiculously aggressive player, and often makes baseless accusations. That sentence just needs to be somewhere in any analysis of BM. Onward!
BM wrote: ok. so-any objections to lynching me?
This post sticks out at me a lot. I can’t think of any reason a town or scum player would say that, but it’s just odd.

That’s it though. The rest of the things he’s posted just seem like the usual BM. He actually does drive the game forward, albeit only because people have to post to refute his “logic”. Overall, I think he’s neutral, and as much as I don’t ant to give him a free pass just for being himself, I think it would be best to, at the very least, deal with him later. If being wrong was scummy, though, he’d have been dead a long time ago. 6/9

MoS:
Like Raffles, I feel like I just can’t read MoS and I would never know if he was scum. The Kison execution isn’t a tell either way IMO. He’s been pretty helpful to the town overall, although his tendency to get frustrated with BM results in pointless arguments between the two that just take up space. 5/9

Pre-post edit:
BM wrote: Cephrir-6 I wasnt sure the case on him, so i reread him. His logic has been poor, and his time in the game has been of surprising little use. His only real commitment was to agree to a Kison lynch. Could well be scum, but not the best candidate for today i dont think.
In what way has my logic been poor? I’ve hardly had any logic that could be poor.
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Post Post #790 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2007 9:58 am

Post by Occult »

Cephir-7
BM-6
MoS-4/5
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Post Post #791 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2007 10:04 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

TheEyeOfMordor wrote:There really isn't any real good reason that I am not self voting. Except that I just stated that I wouldn't. Which would make it hypocritical if I did.
Yos said that maybe I was trying to look good. What good would that do when it looks bad?
That's a WIFOM argument if I ever saw one.

Like I said, it sounds like you're more interested in trying not to look hypocritical then in making the right move, and being more worried about how you appear then about what your move actually does can be a scum tell.

Zind: I'll go back and re-read battle mage and cephirir, and then give you an answer.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #792 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2007 10:10 am

Post by Battle Mage »

Ah ok. just wondered why you listed anti-town as so different to scum. :?

Raffles wrote:What part of the numbering scale do you not understand? Gradation from 1 being don't agree at all to the statement, to 9 being totally agreeing with the statement.
Show
2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #793 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2007 10:10 am

Post by Rand Althor »

You should know where I stand by now
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Post Post #794 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2007 10:12 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Zindaras wrote:Please say exactly where you put them in your scum-range, on a 1 to 9 scale. (1-3 being town, 4-6 being unsure, 7-9 being scum. (1 to 9 to make the gradations nicer)
Ok. Battle mage: Seems about normal behavior for him; lots of activity, some weak logic and a few weird, but I don't think that's really a scum tell for him. His pro-town play, from what I've seen, is so odd it's hard applying any normal standards to him, I don't really know how to read him personally yet, so let's just say that I see no clear read on him at the moment. I'd say about a 4 or 5.

Cephir: Don't really like his voting history, and he's used little logic for his posts and his votes. Nothing in his posting history makes me think he's a pro-town player looking for scum. 7

MOS: Getting some mixed signals from him, but definatly suspicious of him. Really don't like his LOE yesterday; he says he "didn't have time" to do better, but he was console for the whole day, he should have had time to put more thought into his suspiciouns then that post showed. 8
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #795 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2007 10:14 am

Post by Raffles »

Scum => anti-town

Anti-town =/= Scum

(For those who don't do maths, => means "implies")

Makes me wonder why you are not familiar with these equations, BM.
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Post Post #796 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2007 10:25 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

I have something to say about what people are saying about me, but I'd like to wait until we get everyone's opinion so I can catch as many people in the rebuttal as possible. I don't want people to change what they're going to say and act like they didn't think about it before I pointed it out. Zindy, remind me about this when you get everyone's response.
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Post Post #797 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2007 10:33 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Cephrir - Not a lot of content from him, most posts are not overly scummy. He's not very committal to anything, which makes it hard to get a read on him. In my notes, I had him marked down as having a possible connection with Primate (for those of you that would try to accuse me of copying this logic from someone else or anything, note that I asked Cephrir to comment on Primate yesterday when I was giving my assignments, and BEFORE we knew Primate was scum), and knowing now that Primate was scum only makes this possibility stronger to me.

I'd give him a 7/9 on being scum.

Battle Mage - I think I've already made my opinion of Battle Mage pretty clear so far this game and have commented on most of his actions as they happened.

6/9 as scum
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Post Post #798 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2007 10:36 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Yos2, would you mind doing an analysis of Zindaras while you're at it? That'd be greatly appreciated if we could see your opinion of him.
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Post Post #799 (ISO) » Wed May 02, 2007 10:43 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Occult, would you also mind giving your opinion of Zindaras?
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