I've tried SO hard to give him benefit of the doubt...Occult wrote:*Eats Popcorn*
I got a question....
I'm finding BM quite scummy from all of this, yet he really isn't considered to be anti-town by most of the players it seems. Why is that? Is this just the way he happens to play?
Mastermind of Sin wrote:So are you denying that you repeatedly said that I should be executed in Kingmaker and told your replacement to get me killed, or that you, until quite recently, were heavily advocating lynching me in Mafia vs. Wolves? Not to mention that you were not advocating that I was scum in RFM until you came up with a guilty investigation on me. I don't know your alignment in either game, so I won't speculate on it (plus, we can't do that anyways), but regardless of alignment, it still stands that you have repeatedly thought I was scum in most of the games I'm in with you.
Raffles wrote:Will you stop discussing who has the bigger penis and get back to the task at hand, finding second tribune.
Raffles wrote:Have I missed something? Who's the first? TEOM got unvoted.
ROFL. Did you even READ my post, or did you just assume that I didn't think it through? Had you read my post, you would notice that I already addressed the fact that our alignments are unknown. What your alignment in those games is is irrelevant, which is the only reason I CAN refer to those ongoing games in passing. The fact that you do not know my alignment in those games is also irrelevant, since the original point was asking if you truly believed that I could be scum in all those games at once. In addition, you have not made a strong case against me in ANY game, including this one (RFM excluded, for obvious reasons), so that's why I pointed out that you think I'm scum in almost every game. You repeatedly try to build suspicion against me in games we play together, without actually putting together a decent set of logic to show that I'm scum. So, your post was pretty much completely irrelevant, BM. Please try to read my posts before bringing up points that I've responded to in advance.Battle Mage wrote:note that my affiliation in both those games is unknown, thus such analyses cannot be made accurately. note that in neither did i ever make a strong case against you. I would go into more detail, but the last time i did that, i got warned for talking about games currently in progress.
note also that YOUR affiliation in those games is not necessarily known to me either.
Mastermind of Sin wrote:So are you denying that you repeatedly said that I should be executed in Kingmaker and told your replacement to get me killed, or that you, until quite recently, were heavily advocating lynching me in Mafia vs. Wolves? Not to mention that you were not advocating that I was scum in RFM until you came up with a guilty investigation on me. I don't know your alignment in either game, so I won't speculate on it (plus, we can't do that anyways), but regardless of alignment, it still stands that you have repeatedly thought I was scum in most of the games I'm in with you.
[/quote]Mastermind of Sin wrote: it still stands that you have repeatedly thought I was scum in most of the games I'm in with you.
It was a joke. The fact that I was proven right about Elephants when Cessy finally posted the flavour for Night 1 (which was done after I made that post) says nothing. I simply know a lot about ancient history, because I've always been interested in it. I could've predicted you the inclusion of roles like Hasdrubal and Quintus Fabius too. I'm probably right in stating that Maharbal and Hannibal are two of the remaining scum (depending on how many scum there are. At the very least I'm sure about those, another one I don't know). Does that look like prior knowledge to you?Shanba wrote:Note the discrepancy between the three quotes. In the first he is taking a jokey attitude, saying that there might be elephant mafia. Night 1 there was a stomped kill, so that whole first post feels off, and looks like prior knowledge.
It was something I had put in my mind a while before and I thought I had posted about it.In the next post mentioning elephants he insinuates that he knew that the kill was elpehantine. While this may be the case, and I strongly suspect it is, he never explicitly said it day 1, instead calling the idea of an elephant mafia awesome. So he's contradicted himself slightly there. Then finally, his last post he clearly indicates that he thinks it's an SK and not a mafia, as he implied in his first post.
It was a joke answer to TEOM's question. TEOM said a second Mafia were possible. The only possibility, flavour-wise, for a second Mafia, are the elephants, as I said.This post explains that, but then there's a different contradiction. He says in his first post that the elephants would be an awesome mafia, indicating that he there is a possibility of a second mafia. Plus I just disagree with this post generally, I can't see from the flavour, especially given two night 1 kills, any reason for the elephant(s) to be Sk and not mafia.
An IGMEOY is hardly something one has to follow on.Now, secondly, there's his suspicions history. Day 1 he indicates a suspicion of Panzer (me).
Yes, I caught scum.All the rest of his day 1 posts are basically fluff, theory discussion, before his one big post where he concludes that ~N9v~, Cephrir and Toaster Strudel are his LoE and N9V is his execution. Granted, he hit scum, but SK at that point is looking for scum just as avidly as town and the way he went about it leaves me distinctly uneasy. That was the first time he mentioned N9V except for once where he quotes him for his theory discussion. I'll go back to that big post later, as there's something interesting Zindie caught there.
The fact that BM looks no different to you says squat. You have no info confirming BM as town. I am consistent in my suspicion of BM.April 4: Zindie makes this post:Shall we have another look at his LoE? N9V he executed and came up scum. Tosater Strudel was elephanted at night. Cephrir's still alive. Bm he has found scummy consistently through the game, but frankly, BM looks no different here to when he was town in other games. I know Zindaras has indicated he will not try and metagame him yet, but it still smells opportunistic.Zindaras wrote:]I think Kison, Battle Mage and Raffles would all be reasonable executions for the day.
There were reasons behind all of them, which will be posted later.Kison I can also agree with, having just previously fosed him myself, but where on earth did raffles come from and where did Kison go? Again, no reasoning provided. Then suddenly, todayI can see the progression here, so this is not as important.Zindaras wrote:I want everyone to give their opinions on Battle Mage, Cephirir and MoS.
The only time I ever mentioned the possibility of an SK on someone else was, if I remember correctly, livingod. I don't exactly see how that's odd. He's been useless, which is an SK-tell. He has several points for him not being Mafia, which an SK usually isn't. Which is one out of, what, nine suspicions I've voiced? Also, you seriously expect people to defend themselves from an accusation of being scum by proving they're not an SK? How many people that have been attacked in this game have attempted to prove they're not an SK?Next, there's a trend. I will not quote posts for this section, beacuse I would need to quote far too many, but look for yourself: when Zindie defends himself, he only mentions the possibility of him being carthaginian and not the SK, but when he attacks (specifically Livingod), he mentions the possiblity of an SK.
Exactly why do these indicate SKness?Anyway, so that's my thoughts on Zindaras. I think his erraticness about his suspicions and his quietness about his reasoning, while still having that reasoning there is indicative of him being SK.
You are incorrect. Scum tends to be more opportunistic.Battle Mage wrote:fyi, consistency is not a town-tell. Its a stubborn-tell. Trust me-i do it enough.
You can hardly say I haven't used knowledge about your play at all. I have taken into account the fact that you tend to play oddly.I can see your point about excuses for scummy behaviour 'because thats just BM' as being stupid, however its equally as stupid as not using knowledge about my play ATALL.
Zindaras wrote:You are incorrect. Scum tends to be more opportunistic.Battle Mage wrote:fyi, consistency is not a town-tell. Its a stubborn-tell. Trust me-i do it enough.
You can hardly say I haven't used knowledge about your play at all. I have taken into account the fact that you tend to play oddly.I can see your point about excuses for scummy behaviour 'because thats just BM' as being stupid, however its equally as stupid as not using knowledge about my play ATALL.
All scum, even the most experienced ones, love easy lynches. Even this game shows us nice examples, see N9V's and Primate's votes on livingod.Battle Mage wrote:Tendsto be?
frankly thats not my opinion-but regardless, it is only youropinion.
any scum with an iq above 100 will try and be consistent to look good in the eyes of the down-in part based on logic such as that you have given. considering the experience of most players in this game, i dont think consistency can be used as a scumtell accurately.
If it weren't for the knowledge of your play, I'd be much more adamant about your death.You may have taken your knowledge of my play into account, but you havent reflected this in your stalwart attacks upon me.
It was a combination of the two. I had a bad gut feeling on him, and I had logic.Raffles wrote:One thing I want to be clear with Zindaras is the execution regarding N9V. Yes, he did make a clear analysis, but the reasons for executing was rather reliant on gut. Yes?
I use whatever works. I carry the responsibility of making a correct execution, whatever way I do it.As much as I do trust my gut, in the game like this, I would be a little more careful about using gut as a reason for execution. In this game Consuls effectively hold all the vote. I would rather use it as a safety zone to fall back to, rather than my main reason for execution. If you get what I mean.
Eh, I've got no problem with seeing someone execute a semi-lurker on day 1 due in part to a scummy vibe coming from them. Day 1 lynches usually aren't based on much more then that anyway...Raffles wrote: As much as I do trust my gut, in the game like this, I would be a little more careful about using gut as a reason for execution. In this game Consuls effectively hold all the vote. I would rather use it as a safety zone to fall back to, rather than my main reason for execution. If you get what I mean.