Mini 1438: Gonzo Mafia (Scum Win)

[Wisdom]

VOTE: SE Asians
Gotta read them

[Wisdom]

Asians, is the vote on Remembrance serious?

[Wisdom]

Wanna bet I can? For starters, you are Lincolm.

Because it looked like it was serious, with the quote and everything.

[Wisdom]

Remembrance, why is Bacde scum?

[Wisdom]

@Asians
The serious part was about your vote on Remembrance.

@Remembrance
Does saying "I am nervous" equal being nervous?

[Wisdom]

Then where do you see him being nervous?

[Wisdom]

Remembrance, why did you want to know HD's playstyle? Early distancing with scumbuddy?

[Wisdom]

That means you know how to read everyone else in the player list?

[Wisdom]

You dodged the question, Remembrance.

[Wisdom]

Wis, you don't ask my reason why I like to stay my vote?

Sure, tell me more about why you want to keep your vote on Remembrance.

[Wisdom]

Let me ask this differently then.
Out of 12 people, you picked a specific one, HD, and you asked him to explain his playstyle to you. Why specifically HD? Do you know everyone else's playstyles? Can you read everyone else?

[Wisdom]

The latter two in your list are female btw. And Limo ain't in this game.

[Wisdom]

1. Everyone except buldermar, Angelus and I am innocent.
2. Yes.

[Wisdom]

bork didn't RVS either, why didn't you ask him that?

[Wisdom]

Has buldermar posted anything more than bork?

[Wisdom]

wisdom I am thinking you are town!!!

You're correct.

[Wisdom]

"/confirm" was not needed.
"asdhoasfh diffusion" is bork apparently not satisfied with the setup (difussion of power).
Among those, I find bork's post is providing more info.

[Wisdom]

lazy mod

[Wisdom]

And why are you telling us all this?

[Wisdom]

It's never too late.
Do you think Remembrance is scum now?

Vote Count:

SE-Asians (L-5): Human Destroyer, Wisdom
Bacde (L-6): Remembrance
Remembrance (L-6): SE-Asians

Not Voting: Nachomamma8, mantisdreamz, buldermar, borkjerfkin, pirate mollie, I Am Innocent, AngelusW, Bacde, kuror0

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Wisdom]

You have no reason; therefore you don't find that quote regarding Bacde being nervous scummy.

[Wisdom]

You had said that you are keeping your vote on Remembrance because of that post.
Now you say you have no reason for him being scum.
Therefore that post is not your reason.
Therefore you don't find that post scummy.

[Wisdom]

If you have a reason, it's not random.

[Wisdom]

What is your question? Why didn't I ask you about why you're keeping your vote at that time? Because I was too busy questioning Remembrance's selective questioning of HD, which was more important than your vote.

You waited just 5 minutes before you asked me why I am not asking. I don't think you can argue that I dodged your question.

[Wisdom]

Meta stuff are not boring, nor stupid. It was important because Remembrance knows little about almost everyone yet he selected a specific person to question regarding playstyle. Pretty sure I explained it already.

You asked me "you don't ask why my vote stays?" - I took that as if you're offering to explain why your vote stays so I asked you.

[Wisdom]

Yes you did answer it. But you didn't answer my second question.

Why you ask when I asked for it?

You asked me "you don't ask why my vote stays?" - I took that as if you're offering to explain why your vote stays so I asked you.

[Wisdom]

Remembrance, how do you read SE-Asians so far?

Vote Count:

SE-Asians (L-4): Human Destroyer, Wisdom, pirate mollie
Bacde (L-6): Remembrance
Remembrance (L-6): SE-Asians

Not Voting: Nachomamma8, mantisdreamz, buldermar, borkjerfkin, I Am Innocent, AngelusW, Bacde, kuror0

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Wisdom]

Because I wanted to know Remembrance's read.

[Wisdom]

Why do you want to know?

[Wisdom]

Changing read: Very slightly town.

Reason?

[Wisdom]

Seeing as how SE-Asians think that I am trolling them and you think that I am being serious, I don't think you're having the same thoughts.

[Wisdom]

How the hell am I question dodging, tne? Are you going to be silly again?

[Wisdom]

If you ask the same questions, you'll get the same answers. How is that trolling?

[Wisdom]

Prove what? If you ask me something that I have already answered to, what else do you expect?

[Wisdom]

You ask me something.
You get an answer.
Why ask again?

[Wisdom]

So your point is that my initial answer was not satisfying?
Let's see.
In the first case, you asked why I didn't ask you about your vote instantly. I gave you an answer - because I was busy doing something else. You asked why I asked when you asked - I answered because you were offering to tell me.
What is not satisfying about this?
In the second case, you ask me why I am asking Remembrance for his read. The answer is because I wanna know his read. What other answer could be here? My own read has nothing to do with Remembrance's read. So, what answer were you looking for here?

Vote Count:

SE-Asians (L-4): Human Destroyer, Wisdom, pirate mollie
Bacde (L-6): Remembrance

Not Voting: Nachomamma8, mantisdreamz, buldermar, borkjerfkin, I Am Innocent, AngelusW, Bacde, kuror0, SE-Asians

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Wisdom]

Really? So because I spent 5 whole minutes questioning Remembrance you assumed that I forgot your post?

Why am I interested in Remembrance's read? Because I am trying to read Remembrance. Is it that hard?

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Bacde

[Wisdom]

@Wisdom: Why did you ask a loaded question to Remembrance in Post 33?

Because that's what it looked like. Out of 12 people, he specifically picked you to ask questions.

[Wisdom]

^bad post

[Wisdom]

SE-Asians is NOT scum, and that wasn't a scumslip. Everyone should unvote him instantly.

[Wisdom]

There's scum in {Bacde, IaI and bork}. Definetely.
HD's push, although wrong, is townish.
mollie and Remembrance probtown.

Lincolm's VT claim was not serious. Why would anyone claim at that point? It was his way of showing his frustration regarding the argument with HD. It is not a scumslip and whoever continues to push this is scum trying to exploit the fact that Lincolm's language barrier makes him look scummier than he is.

[Wisdom]

Town

Wisdom
pirate mollie

Scum

SE-Asians
Remembrance
I am Innocent


This isn't enough reads, I need morrrrrrrrre

Where is your Bacde read?

[Wisdom]

Straight up lie found:

Wisdom is question dodging again like always...

That's not a lie. The above was not said by Lincolm, but by thenewearth, a different head of the hydra.

[Wisdom]

I'm not really buying this

in the context of the HD SE-Asians discussion it looked like a slip

I've fakeclaimed dumb shit before, and its always either

1) During RVS
2) When I'm confirmed town
3) obviously a joke

and that VT claim didn't fit any of the above categories

No it doesn't look like a slip. It IS obviously a sarcastic way to show his frustration.
Furthermore, why would scum ever scumslip like this in Diffusion, when they are told the exact setup in the beginning?

[Wisdom]

Mafia are told pregame exactly how many Cops and Docs exist in the setup, but not who and what nights they are.

Even if scum don't read the setup for some reason (and I'm sure Lincolm is not the kind not to read a setup), they are

told

how many doctors and how many cops there are. Why would scum ever claim VT?

It's painfully obvious this is not a scumslip, especially if you've played a little with Lincolm.

I can accept the argument "Even if he was going for sarcasm he's still scum for x,y reasons" but I will NOT accept further pushing of this as a scumslip.

[Wisdom]

@Wisdom where are they told?

In their QT, I guess.

[Wisdom]

I can tell because I know all three of them.
tne has made one post, Sora none, the rest is all Lincolm.

If he is town, he does not necessarily know that scum know the numbers. Even if he did, it has nothing to do with his claim, as his claim was not serious. It was sarcasm. He even said "You will like this claim. I am VT. Now you can mislynch me." I don't know how more obvious it could be that it's not serious. Maybe it's not obvious if you don't know Lincolm, but it still isn't a slip.

[Wisdom]

I just checked the only scum QT I've ever joined and there was no set up information in the quick topic. Furthermore, when I got my role Pm, there was no information on the set up. He's probably just trying to look town.

Have you ever played Diffusion of Power?

[Wisdom]

Maybe his initial phrasing could be understood as sarcasm

but sarcasm doesn't imply innocence

His

underlying motivation

behind his potentially not serious claim can not be understood from a town perspective

There's more to look at than just his post where he claimed VT

That's acceptable; if you wanna argue that he's scum for other reasons I am willing to listen. But the claim wasn't a slip.

[Wisdom]

This is literally "Lynch SE-Asians and Remembrance in any order" now.

TAKE YOUR PICK FOLKS

Don't make me vote you.
Remembrance is town.

[Wisdom]

But remember, I bullshit you last time on this too. But no, I've never played diffusion I do know the set up though((majiffy explained and I looked it up). But I don't remember hearing the scum know the exact number of docs and cops. Anywhere.

If you looked it up, you would have seen it. It's in

bold

on the wiki page.

[Wisdom]

Remembrance had specifically stated that he doesn't believe the claim was a slip, and he voted him for other reasons. I don't see where you see opportunism.

[Wisdom]

I prefer lynching bork or IaI over anyone else who has a wagon right now.
But we still need to hear from Nacho, Mantis, Angelus and kuror0, who have posted nothing so far.

UNVOTE:

[Wisdom]

And yes this means I'm liking Bacde more now.

[Wisdom]

And why do you keep mentioning that? To show Lincolm is competent scum?

[Wisdom]

Lincolm, will you stop with this?

[Wisdom]

So you're gonna be like this for the rest of the game?

Vote Count:

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Bacde, borkjerfkin
Remembrance (L-6): Human Destroyer

Not Voting: Nachomamma8, mantisdreamz, buldermar, AngelusW, kuror0, SE-Asians, pirate mollie, Remembrance, Wisdom

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Wisdom]

Except this here wasn't a serious fakeclaim.

[Wisdom]

Lynching you won't help town either. You know what will help town? Stop acting on your ego and your desire to prove you're right and try to find who is scum.

Mollie actually thinks you might be bad town. How is she an example of people not listening to you?

[Wisdom]

i hate this setup and i don't want to play it

that is my deal

Then replace out?

[Wisdom]

VOTE: buldermar

[Wisdom]

Why did he a) try to pass it off as a mixture of games and b) attempt to claim Innocent Child afterwards?

a) There's no mixture, the VT claim was sarcasm.
b) The IC claim was expanding on the sarcasm.

[Wisdom]

It is possible that he did not read the exact setup and just assumed that VT's were a part of the setup because they are a part of most setups.

No. Scum are told the exact setup in Diffusion. There's no way he assumed there are VTs.

[Wisdom]

Because he didn't know it will be Diffusion?

[Wisdom]

Hey Sora. Are you scum?

[Wisdom]

VOTE: buldermar

?

I said I won't accept further pushing of that "slip". Unvote SE-Asians or state different reasons which they are scum for.

[Wisdom]

He posted from the wrong account (Lincolm) and then posted from the hydra account saying that he posted from the wrong account.
There was no mixture of games.

[Wisdom]

They're specifically told how many doctors and how many cops there are. This happens in their QT and/or role pms.

[Wisdom]

Hey Sora. Are you scum?

The fuck is this?

Me talking to Sora, the third head of the hydra, who just posted for the first time?

[Wisdom]

He didn't pass anything off as a mixture of accounts or games.

[Wisdom]

I believe mollie provided an example of Lincolm doing "retarded shit" as town.

[Wisdom]

They're specifically told how many doctors and how many cops there are. This happens in their QT and/or role pms.

That does change a bit, but he may not have read his role PM carefully and may not have opened his QT.

You are now speculating to justify things. No, Lincolm is not the kind not to read a pm or not to read QTs. Except if you have examples showing he doesn't usually read pms or qts.

[Wisdom]

Hey Sora. Are you scum?

The fuck is this?

Me talking to Sora, the third head of the hydra, who just posted for the first time?

No it's you posing a question the answer of which you already know (whether it is a truth or a lie). Why did you ask the most useless question there is in this game?

Because out of the three heads, Sora is the one I can read best and he knows it. This was my way of greeting him and informing him I'll be watching him.

[Wisdom]

Not to butt in to your "fantastic" conversation but

There's a difference between strategic, purposeful fakeclaims and godawfully retarded fakeclaims.

This was the latter.

Still not a scumtell.

[Wisdom]

tne, you're currently voting HD. Do you agree with the vote, or do you wanna vote someone else?

[Wisdom]

Except that's how tne is as town too.

[Wisdom]

Yes, this again.
This wishy-washiness is not a scumtell for tne.

[Wisdom]

Your last dot is also something that is null for tne.

[Wisdom]

And since I'll be asked for it sooner or later, here is a game where town-thenewearth was extremely scummy and exhibited similar "scumtells".

[Wisdom]

I don't see wishy-washiness in that game. Null read =/= wishy-washy. TNE appears to take strong stances on people's alignments in that game, at least in the bit I skimmed.

Yeah I'm sure you read the game in 2 minutes.

[Wisdom]

I believe mollie provided an example of Lincolm doing "retarded shit" as town.

I need a link to that game then if you don't mind.

I think it was this

[Wisdom]

Like, I understand you guys think TNE is scummy normally

But the tells I'm pointing out aren't the ones town-TNE committed.

So...what gives?

Okay, explain the upper part of your dot list again then.

[Wisdom]

@HD No, I was referring to what mollie was saying about Lincolm being incompetent as town. With the blocking the freezing and stuff.

[Wisdom]

Ok I've read every post made by thenewearth in that game. He seems like a condescending, immature teenager with a superiority complex, but he didn't do anything even remotedly as retarded as what was supposedly done as town in this game. Nor was he "extremely scummy" as you put it, nor did he exhibit "similar scumtells". Could you please quote the exact posts that you think this holds true for? I feel like I've wasted my time searching for something that I suspected wouldn't be there in the first place.

This game was not for you. The one who did the "retarded shit" was not thenewearth, it was Lincolm.

[Wisdom]

Well for this game you'll have to ask mollie to provide specifics as I was not in it.

[Wisdom]

1. Post 95, he just randomly drops the conversation with a vote plop back on his RVS.

It was stated that the vote on Remembrance was not just RVS, he had reasons for voting him so I don't see why it is strange that he decided to vote him again.

2. Post 73, asks for meta discussion to stop.

There are players who don't like meta arguments and discussions, so this is null and not alignment-indicative.

3. This should be obvious, just look at his posts after he switched back to Remembrance. He continues to push you, but it lacks drive and motivation, and there's no vote to back it up.

I don't see why he wouldn't continue to push me, especially since his reasons for voting Remembrance were related to me and drawing my attention and stuff.

4. Again, should be obvious, Lincolm votes me after I vote him with no real reason and doesn't even attempt to push me.

As evidenced by the claim, Lincolm was in a state of anger during that post. The OMGUS is not strange at all, and is in fact of minimal importance given the presence of the VT claim. Therefore I don't think that this OMGUS has any value either.

[Wisdom]

Well for this game you'll have to ask mollie to provide specifics as I was not in it.

So you know that he usually does shit like this because mollie says so?

Nope, I know that it's not above Lincolm to do such stuff because I've played with him and read some of his games.
I do not have a specific example myself where he did something similar, so I pointed to the one mollie brought up.

[Wisdom]

I just realized that it being a hydra account may skew things towards it actually being a joke. If it was indeed a fake-claim, I'd imagine that some percentage of the time the person intending to make the fake-claim would confront the other participants of the hydra with the idea before actually making it. I'm not saying that I rule it out altogether, but this does make me second guess myself.

Liked this post. You are right, this is one more reason that you guys cannot possibly argue that this was a serious fake-claim. He wouldn't just ignore the others and just fake-claim out of the blue.

Just for that,
UNVOTE:

Vote Count:

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Bacde, Human Destroyer, buldermar
buldermar (L-6): SE-Asians

Not Voting: Nachomamma8, mantisdreamz, AngelusW, kuror0, pirate mollie, Remembrance, borkjerfkin, Wisdom

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Wisdom]

Nah, sorry, wrong account.

I don't know which part that I'm not explain clearly to you. I already explain all. And you're questioning that I already post.

Nah, okay, game over baby, mislynch coming. Sorry Sora and TNE. Sorry Town. No one believe me.

I still don't understand the "wrong account" thing. Wisdom, can you explain this?

He posted from the wrong account here:

Well, now you reading my post. The fuck why you aren't reading my others post?

[Wisdom]

Meanwhile, even tho he may be misguided, I think HD is looking very town for noticing this and following through with it in this manner.

Agreed.

[Wisdom]

So mollie, who is scum?

[Wisdom]

Bacde, give me a good reason we should lynch SE-Asians.

[Wisdom]

Well for whoever cares the (unofficial) vote count looks like this:
SE-Asians (3) - I am Innocent, Bacde, Human Destroyer
buldermar (1) - SE-Asians

and everyone else is not voting.

[Wisdom]

Yeah that's all terrific. Now find the scum team in this game please, because you only have a single scumread and even that is not really convincing.

[Wisdom]

lold

[Wisdom]

Well for whoever cares the (unofficial) vote count looks like this:
SE-Asians (3) - I am Innocent, Bacde, Human Destroyer
buldermar (1) - SE-Asians

and everyone else is not voting.

I unvoted SE fwiw.

I know, read that again.

[Wisdom]

^bad post

[Wisdom]

Why do you trust mollie's words so easily, "rememory"?

[Wisdom]

@mollie
Really? Thread avoidance? I bet she just doesn't have time to read 20 pages yet. Same goes for Nacho. If they post and THEN start avoiding the thread, then you will have a point. But not now.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Remembrance

[Wisdom]

Do your own thing then, nobody is stopping you.

[Wisdom]

My scum meta actually doesn't look like this.
But sure, I'd love Sora to elaborate.

[Wisdom]

Not doing it.

[Wisdom]

Has she been posting in games where she needs to read 20 pages without having posted yet?

[Wisdom]

Yeah I have failed at reading Mantis both times.
Third time's the charm.

[Wisdom]

I agree that we should not lynch anyone until everyone has posted enough.
I am Innocent is still a good lynch candidate, btw.

[Wisdom]

bacde probably scum

Why?

[Wisdom]

lolwut
Didn't you say he's town a few posts ago? Why do you sheep Nacho now? And why'd you unvote Mantis?

[Wisdom]

I don't know if I like the plan.
If the setup could be broken so easily, people wouldn't be playing this setup.
So obviously it might not be such a good idea.

[Wisdom]

^wrong account

[Wisdom]

so mollie, if bork is also town, who is scum?

[Wisdom]

SE-Asians is a huge anti-town player. Some of you have excused him saying that it is his normal meta but I seriously don't see anything helpful coming from him so far, so he is my best bet for a lynch today so far, we either get scum or a town playing against his wincon.

SE-Asians is a hydra of 3 players, in case you didn't realize.

[Wisdom]

lol mollie

[Wisdom]

Why is kuror0 scum?

[Wisdom]

And why do you still not have a read on Bacde?

[Wisdom]

oops Im blind, nvm

[Wisdom]

I don't know about the Remembrance read, that's how I also feel about him more or less.

[Wisdom]

I did. It was terrible to notice halfway the read about that. But there is 1 player who is making most of the posts (over 80% of them all i think.) so Im judging basing my read that the lvl of activity will be the same for the rest of the game. Also didn't like post 393. Seems like throwing the ball to the others. This is my first play with a hydra so I'm not used to this kind of stuff and find it kind of scumy.

393 was not made by the one who made 80% of the posts though.

So, why are you not voting?

[Wisdom]

Won't scum have to use their brains even if we do nothing?

Vote Count:

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Bacde, Human Destroyer
buldermar (L-6): SE-Asians
borkjerfkin (L-6): pirate mollie
Remembrance (L-6): Wisdom
Bacde (L-6): Nachomamma8

Not Voting: Remembrance, mantisdreamz, AngelusW, kuror0, borkjerfkin, buldermar

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Wisdom]

I'm saying that they'll need to use their brains whether we use the plan or not.

[Wisdom]

Say x claims N1 cop.
Scum will have to consider killing x. If there are N1 doctors, they will risk their kill failing. If there aren't, the cop will die.

Now if x never claimed, scum will have to kill someone at random, who will most likely not be x. Which means x will investigate without problems.

Point being, early cops might be better protected without claiming.

This plan might work best later, with less people alive. Now there are 13 people alive, meaning 9/10 possible targets for scum (depending on the lynch), so I don't get why we should tell scum who the cop is when they just have 1/9 or 1/10 chance to get it right.

[Wisdom]

In that case, a N1 doctor might claim, but there might not be N1 cops. Meaning free kill for scum N1 who otherwise could have targetted someone that the unclaimed N1 doctor protected and thus fail.

[Wisdom]

Anyway if we are to do one of those I prefer the one that doctors go first.

[Wisdom]

And what happens if I'm town but not have a person "I deem scummiest" yet?

[Wisdom]

On rememory.

[Wisdom]

Btw, the Diffusion game that was ongoing just ended, so whoever wanted to refer to it can now do it.

[Wisdom]

It started in 512.

[Wisdom]

^bad post

Why was my Bacde vote a "bad post"?

Also Human, why no read of Bacde by 142?

Find your own questions. This was mine.

With the VT claim, and now this, why are we up to 25 pages??? This should be lynched with fire by now?!?!?

Good place to stop.

I'll excuse you because you're stopping there, but if you continue pushing that the VT claim is a scumtell after you've read everything I'll vote you.

[Wisdom]

^bad post

Why was my Bacde vote a "bad post"?

Also Human, why no read of Bacde by 142?

Find your own questions. This was mine.

With the VT claim, and now this, why are we up to 25 pages??? This should be lynched with fire by now?!?!?

Good place to stop.

I'll excuse you because you're stopping there, but if you continue pushing that the VT claim is a scumtell after you've read everything I'll vote you.

[Wisdom]

Say 10 town, 3 scum. Even with a mislynch, the chance of hitting a cop with no docs would be 1 outta 9....I'll take those chances and force the scum to play cat and mouse rather than give them free reight on 8 players...

That's also something I said. But since you've probably not read the post that I said it I won't accuse you of copying this time.

[Wisdom]

Mantis and Angelus are still nowhere to be found...

[Wisdom]

Yeah, after some thought I do support the version of the plan where the N1 doctors claim, and if there were claims, then the N1 cops claim.

If there are both doctor and cop claims, the doctor protects the cop. If the cop dies on N1, the doctor who would protect him is obvscum.
If there is no doctor claim, the cops don't claim, and we play the game normally.
If there are only doctor claims, scum don't have a free kill as I said, as it would be more beneficial for them to aim for a later night PR. Killing the claimed doctor would only be compromising so that they don't risk failing.

In any case we should wait for Mantis and Angelus before we initiate it.

[Wisdom]

The whole point of the plan is the guaranteed investigation.

[Wisdom]

Also,

This is a valid point, but you're still missing the fact that if x never claimed, the doctor would also have to protect someone at random.

Which makes no difference since scum don't aim for a certain person, but select 1 out of 9.

[Wisdom]

Yeah and if the cop doesn't out himself, scum have 1/9 chance to hit him. Doctor also has 1/11 chance to protect him but this doesn't matter because scum are not guaranteed to hit the cop.
So the doctor's chance is irrelevant.

[Wisdom]

Not sure what you don't understand.

The cop outs himself -> Certain protection IF there is a doctor. Scum can choose to risk killing or kill someone else.

The cop doesn't out himself -> Scum have to choose killing someone. They'll get the cop with 1/9 chance. If there's a doctor, he has 1/11 chance to protect the cop. But this is irrelevant, because the doctor protecting the cop will only matter if scum hit the cop. Which isn't likely.

[Wisdom]

"while keeping cops alive"
Yeah because if there are not any N1 doctors and scum decide to risk it, the cop will totally live.

[Wisdom]

And? If they risk it and there was no doc, cop dies.
While without a claim they will only hit a cop in 1/9 and he still might be protected.

[Wisdom]

buldermar, does the doctor need to protect he cop if the scum don't hit the cop?

[Wisdom]

So the objective here is to find a way to reduce the likelihood of a successful kill, not find the best way for successful cop investigation. In that case, I agree.

[Wisdom]

nope, just cop claims.

[Wisdom]

Yeah that's what I also explained, but that's if our focus is the investigation.
If our focus is reducing the likelihood of the kill going through, it's better without a doctor claim, so that scum don't know if there is one.

[Wisdom]

If scum claim doc and cop dies, the doc was scum.

[Wisdom]

If they no kill, cops get investigations in. Their loss.

[Wisdom]

Your whole suggestion is exploitable, because scum can claim "I have a role this night" then later claim cop or doctor at will.

[Wisdom]

Easy example; they can claim "I'm a N1 PR" then nokill and say "I was N1 doctor".
With Nacho's plan they can't do that, if they fakeclaim N1 cop they'll have to provide results and eventually get caught.

[Wisdom]

Doctors don't claim in Nacho's plan.
The problem is if scum fakeclaims cop.

[Wisdom]

No, they know how many doctors and how many cops (4-6, 5-5 or 6-4).

[Wisdom]

Something else on Nacho's plan;
if there are 2 or more N1 cops, only one of them should claim. The whole scum WIFOM will be around him, and the other cop(s) will get investigations in.
Thoughts?

[Wisdom]

It's explained in what you quoted.

1 claimed cop = scum get wifom'd on whether to kill him or not, and any other unclaimed cops get their investigations in.
many claimed cops = scum select one to kill, doctor might select someone else. Not as likely that the scum kill will fail.

[Wisdom]

There are still two people (Mantis and Angelus) who haven't even posted yet. Are you sure it was a good idea to begin without them?

(Not N1 PR)

[Wisdom]

These still need to claim:
3. mantisdreamz
4. buldermar
7. I Am Innocent
8. AngelusW
9. SE-Asians

These claimed N1 PRs:
6. pirate mollie
1. Nachomamma8
2. Remembrance

UNVOTE:

[Wisdom]

the fence sitting by Wisdom.

the what?

[Wisdom]

Reads change, you know.

[Wisdom]

Pretty sure I did when I voted. I didn't like your Mantis vote at all.

As to why I unvoted you; I'm not lynching a N1 PR.

[Wisdom]

Yeah, and those who mistake sarcasm and frustration for scumslips will certainly win said award.

[Wisdom]

/facepalm

[Wisdom]

Never too late.

[Wisdom]

You have.

[Wisdom]

I figured.
That might actually be a town sign. You were thinking of your town games, possibly because you are town.

Then again, it might be a trick. Last time I believed you townslipped I was wrong.

[Wisdom]

It's Sora.

[Wisdom]

By townslipping I mean doing something that only town would do without realizing it.

[Wisdom]

And a prod on Mantis, please.

[Wisdom]

mantis is town

Agreed

[Wisdom]

@Majiffy

Mantis is voting Bacde.

[Wisdom]

Leaning Scum
mantisdreamz

Wondering how he got this read.

[Wisdom]

Yup, until now we were trolling you.

[Wisdom]

What's townish about I am Innocent?

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Bacde, Human Destroyer
buldermar (L-6): SE-Asians
borkjerfkin (L-6): pirate mollie
Bacde (L-6): Nachomamma8, mantisdreamz

Not Voting: Remembrance, AngelusW, kuror0, borkjerfkin, buldermar, Wisdom

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

[Wisdom]

Nobody will be wondering about the VT claim, it was obvious sarcasm/frustration. Whoever still doubts that can die.

[Wisdom]

I am Innocent. But I'll wait for him to finish catching up.

[Wisdom]

Yes

[Wisdom]

Not saying he's town. Just that the claim is not a scumslip.

[Wisdom]

Mantis did finish.
Angelus and IAI still need to claim.

[Wisdom]

HD change Rem to Bacde and you might have nailed the scumteam.

[Wisdom]

Angelus might also be scum.

IAI best lynch anyway.

[Wisdom]

Fate will replace Bacde.

[Wisdom]

3) From #2, had SE Asians come out after the claim saying, oh, it was a joke, I hadn't realized the setup and didn't know my fake claims were ridiculous, I would have bought it based on my own lack of checking the setup. But he did not. He said it was to have him last longer in the game by not being a NK (VT, IC not til N6, etc)

You still don't understand that the reason Lincolm made those sarcastic claims was frustration coming from the arguments he was having. He DID know that the roles he's claiming don't exist. He DID consider it a joke. I will admit that his "I want to last till D5" is a bit weird given this context but you still cannot call him out on lying and the like. He "lied" on purpose because of frustration. He hasn't even posted again since then.

and hurt the town the least (claimed N5 power)

You should not underestimate N5 PRs. They might turn out to be as helpful for the town as the N1 ones. In the last Diffusion game most PRs were N5 PRs and they managed to form a auto-town win plan on D4 that utilized them. So don't go around saying that N5 PRs are useless and it's better if we lynch them than others.

[Wisdom]

@bulder
I have not put an effort to save SE-Asians. I just don't believe Lincolm's frustrating/sarcastic claim is a scumtell and I will keep fighting against this idea. Other than this, I don't have a town read on them. In fact, via PoE, I think they have a good chance of being scum.

[Wisdom]

Yes I did put an effort to save him when people were using the claim to peg him as scum. But other than that, it's not like I want to protect him from a lynch.

[Wisdom]

Blah let me clarify myself because I'm feeling I am looking like an idiot right now.

I have a null, possible leaning scum on SE-Asians. Sora, who is the head I can read best, has not pleased me very much; I didn't like his referring to my meta too much. Last time he was scum he tried to call me town and buddy me and I figured him, possibly now he wanted to change that to "I'm not sure, this looks like his scum meta".
tne is being the usual tne which I can't read, and Lincolm's frustration did look town at first glance but it's not above Lincolm to fake something like this.

What I have a clear opposing against is that his claim was a scumslip. He KNEW he's claiming something outside the setup, he did it on purpose, he was sarcastic about it. The first thing to say after HD noticed his claim was "so now you're reading my posts, huh?", which makes it obvious that he was also going for reactions. I am NOT saying that this makes him town. But when I came into the thread, and everyone was voting him for "scumslip"/ "lies" and similar stuff I got angry and that's why I opposed the wagon and even started voting those supporting the above.

My intention is not to save him, and if IaI manages to convince me he's not as scummy as he looks I might even consider supporting SE-Asians being today's lynch. I do not disagree that if anything, he is a goldmine of reactions and his flip might be very telling in figuring out others.

[Wisdom]

I have, that's probably why.

[Wisdom]

Make me post 20 pages by myself instead, easier.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: I am Innocent

[Wisdom]

Wisdom does not think that slot is town.

[Wisdom]

No, you're a better lynch.

[Wisdom]

Do you realise we just claim PR? What cops are you talking about?

[Wisdom]

Remembrance is town this game. Fact.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Fate

[Wisdom]

I was mocking him, but I do think he's probably town.

[Wisdom]

How do you feel about Fate?

[Wisdom]

How so?

[Wisdom]

Did I elaborate on any of my votes so far?

[Wisdom]

Why did you pick that specific vote to call suspicious when I've voted the same way all game?

[Wisdom]

Good, then you know why I voted Fate too.

[Wisdom]

What is suspicious about it?

[Wisdom]

No, I see no reason to speculate why others are voting Fate. I voted Fate because his SE-Asians vote was terrible.

[Wisdom]

What is suspicious about it?

It is opportunistic and looks like a bad excuse to just place a vote somewhere pretending to be contributing with something while you're really just voting someone for a stupid reason.

How exactly is my Fate vote an attempt to "pretend to be contributing"?

[Wisdom]

No, I see no reason to speculate why others are voting Fate. I voted Fate because his SE-Asians vote was terrible.

He admitted to not even having read the thread. I voted Asians initially for assumably the exact same reason that Fate did and you consider me town atm. Why do you think specifically Fate should instantly realize the things that the rest of us (at the very least me) took longer to realize? This looks like a bullshit excuse to place a vote.

If I unvoted you later what makes you think I won't unvote Fate later?

[Wisdom]

I voted Fate because his SE-Asians vote was terrible.

Why?

Because it was. Everyone who comes into this thread votes SE-Asians. It's getting old.