Open 465 - Wot's... Uh the Deal? (Game Over! Town Win!)

[pirate mollie]

/confirm

[pirate mollie]

are you thinking levithan thing was trying to extend the mafia talk time malacat?

[pirate mollie]

okay I want to see where this goes

VOTE: levianthan93

also mantis you need to get in here so I can get a read on you!!!

[pirate mollie]

VOTE: shrimp guy

[pirate mollie]

how are we out of the RVS stage? I have no idea who I want to lynch yet. but I will state what I believe from what we have.

Mala seems an adamant experienced scumhunter.
Adam seems to be innocent
Prohawk intimidates me but I have nothing
Shrimp just seems to be plain wrong about stuff

mollie seems to just jump on someone elses decision.

leviathan I state I am plain white townie.

This is my analysis.

pretty sure I was teh first on shrimp guy.

also:

plain white townie

reported for rac1zm.

also2 if shrimp guy and leviathan turn out to be scum malacat and I are going to sign up every game together and rulez you mofos.

[pirate mollie]

eta3: I was joking about the reported for rac1zm post that is me joking around sort of.

[pirate mollie]

Hey Mollie, did you forget that you are scum?

haha, not scum but good try so wtf do you make of the blacksmith bizness that malacat and levianthan were banging on about I am town it is not in my role pm nor does the term blacksmith indicate the flavour what are they talking about do you know?

[pirate mollie]

I'm going to do the following action in the nicest way possible.

-paws Mollie-

I think he mixed up terms, let's drop it and not discuss PM's. YOU ARE HELPING THE SCUM OUT. >.>

I'm going to do the following action in the nicest way too.

town does not try to sow confusion amongst town so if you are insinuating that you both are "blacksmiths" or whatever then fuck yeah I am going to call attention to it "blacksmith" could be code on your scumboard for all I know.

if you are scum you are going to have to backtrack on treating me as town just so you know.

[pirate mollie]

@Mollie: What is your read on Hawk so far?

null since all he is doing is trying to provoke me.

[pirate mollie]

not to my knowledge but paranoid me does not discount alts.

[pirate mollie]

No, first time together. Adam, whats your read on mollie?

I don't like the process she went through to vote Levi and

if she is scum I read her as very calm and collected scum

. Her demeanor would indicate that is possible for her.

lol, where the fuck would you get that idea.

[pirate mollie]

is this a question for the sake of a question?
maybe you heard it from mantis adam in the QT!

@Shrimp: So is your vote serious or not, I can't seem to tell...

If you read his vote post he at the same time mentions his vote as RVS in a playful manner & as a serious vote for a scum tell. I hold that as disingenuous voting where he can swing responsibility both ways. So, no not a useless question at all.

It looked like shrimp maybe voted molly just as a joke at first. but then, when it was brought to his attention that malakitten was actually serious about her vote on leviathan for not confirming right away, and then saw molly's post where she somewhat furthered the idea by asking mala if it was because she thought leviathan wanted more time in pre scum chat... then his vote turned to a serious one.

i don't know if that makes sense.

guess what i'm trying to say is that i don't find shrimp all that suspicious.

and i am wondering about molly myself

.

and why is this exactly??? in the 2 years we have been playing together the only time you try to leave me out to rot is when you are scum.

VOTE: mantis

[pirate mollie]

lol shrimp guy, I am not going to quote your long ass post but my vote levianthan was to see what would happen. it was still early enough in the game to do that yanno. I switched to you cos you looked like you were dancing around a bit with your vote on me as in you couldn't make up your mind as to whether or not it was a serious vote or not. the lack of commitment at the time made you look scummy. you trying to further what to start with was a pretty dumb case still makes you look scummy but I am on to mantis now.

I have teh prohawk as town!!!!

eta: xposts!!!!

[pirate mollie]

Adam, I already explained what my vote was.
It started off half serious, because I don't like people that jump early RVS wagons, definitely not when the wagon is one that is claimed to be a serious vote way at the start of the game.
So it was half serious, because I could not really understand how someone could seriously vote so early on.
It seemed too silly to be the case, so I assumed the vote was sarcastic.
Is this so hard to understand?

When the vote seemed to be a serious one, that's when mine turned serious, because that would mean that pirate mollie purposely joined a serious vote in RVS stage.
Meaning pirate mollie was creating a wagon based on so little information.

Is this clear?

You claim to have experience in this game, but I really can't see that in your gameplay.

not really, cos malacat said that it was a serious vote to start with. I voted levianthan to see what would happen and clearly stated that.

I play on sites where d1 is typically 24 hours I hit early and I hit hard before some dummies try to start a bw on me cos they ate bad pizza or some stupid shit. I also try to find town too as much as I try to find scum. sometimes that happens with a vote.

[pirate mollie]

Which reminds me:

@Mollie: Why did you switch your vote from Levi?

cos shrimp looked scummier at the time. duh.

[pirate mollie]

eta: and I switched my vote to mantis a few minutes ago are you going to try to paint that as some sort of dumb scumtell as well? lol

[pirate mollie]

You never explained your vote for Shrimp in the first place. So how did he look more scummy?

in post #25 he looked like he was hedging his bets; offering up a rvs vote yes leaving wiggle room for it to turn serious. which is exactly what he did.

[pirate mollie]

*yet

[pirate mollie]

Well, this is not one of those websites, the only thing town has in it's advantage is time, so lets use it wisely, and not try to quicklynch.

lol, wtf, who is trying to quick lynch here pretty sure the only person talking about that is you. placing votes is a great way to feel people out is this your first mafia game or what.

Mollie, seriously, this is another OMGUS vote... Do you always just vote people because they vote or suspect you?

if mantis were town she would be trying to feel me out by asking me direct questions not what my summary was at this point. her soft fos is icing on the cake.

So, can you explain who you have scum reads on, and why?

well so far I have placed my vote on scummy looking players and I am pretty sure that I have explained them except for yours right away. you are in my unsure pile.

May I ask why?

this is your first decent question so far and it also contradicts question #2 since obviously I do not OMGUS and automatically get sus of whoever votes me!

it is a gut read but I did like his "are you the watcher or tracker immune ack ack ack" post. it looks town motivated to me.

[pirate mollie]

I can't seem to understand

your

logic.

FIFY

Vote Count

Pirate Mollie (L-4): ProHawk
Mantis (L-4): Pirate Mollie
Adam-12 (L-4): Shrimp85, Guile

Not Voting: Code, Levi, Mantis, Mala, Adam-12

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[pirate mollie]

this is your first decent question so far and it also contradicts question #2

My first decent question? Me asking why you have a sudden town read on someone? It's pretty obvious someone was going to ask.
And how does it contradict my second question?

Mollie, seriously, this is another OMGUS vote... Do you always just vote people because they vote or suspect you?

This is about your votes against people that vote you.

May I ask why?

This is about why you have a town read...

I can't seem to understand your logic.

but I will address your points.

you asked me if I vote people just because they vote or fos me when hawk boy had his vote at the time. so obviously I am not running around voting people who vote me. that is how you contradicted yourself.

pretty sure hawk boy is town and thinking mantis is scum. it isn't based on gut like you tried to insinuate it was more that his "ack ack are watcher or tracker immune?" question that puts him in my town pile. reason being is that he is obviously reaction testing and town tend to do use this style of baiting more often than scum.

[pirate mollie]

By the way, I just realized this while skimming through ISO's...
Pirate mollie, did you seriously just claim to be a PR? post 66.

wtf is this shit I don't even. how in the fuck did you get that I soft claimed a pr role out of that post? are you telling me that your role description has the word "blacksmith" in it?

NEVER, I mean, NEVER do that...
And WTF Prohawk, I can't believe you just posted that. Post 68
You are seriously asking her to give her PR role out?

You two are messed up...
Well, you know what... I guess we'll see wether or not Pirate Mollie is indeed a town.
If tonight she does not get lynched, then bet your ass she's mafia.

let me get this straight...you think I soft-claimed a pr and you are pushing for my lynch? LOL

And Prohawk, you have been playing since July, you have the most experience in this game technically.
Why would you post something like that?!

join date is not an indication of experience level. a lot of people use alts on this site and also people can have a ton of experience on other sites too. for instance I am up to about 90 games and pretty sure mantis is up there too.

[pirate mollie]

Bah... just realized that if Shrimp honestly thinks post 68 is role-fishing a PR, he prob is obv-town. But good heavens man, you should really read things a bit more closely.

UNVOTE: Shrimp
VOTE: Mollie

Sorry Mollie, yer still not off the hook.

[pirate mollie]

also hawk boy I think you are letting shrimp guy off too easy but will you plz vote mantis with me her number one scum tell besides leaving me to die is thread avoidance and she was on this morning.

[pirate mollie]

6 poast combo!!!!!

[pirate mollie]

Re: Letting Shrimp Off

He thought my post was about town PR's. Unless he is a very astute and tricky scummer, he is obv-town. Anyone who got the scum role

or read the OP

would know EXACTLY what post 68 was about. With his current playstyle, I would be very, very surprised to see him flip scum.

FIFY

I will leave shrimp guy alone then. I have malacat as town.

[pirate mollie]

@ majiffy

no preference

[pirate mollie]

haha no.

[pirate mollie]

#146I already asked them to stop the conversation regarding role PM's.

where did you do this?

thinking you are pretty disengaged despite my liking you intro into the game.

[pirate mollie]

also hawk boy I think you are letting shrimp guy off too easy but will you plz vote mantis with me her number one scum tell besides leaving me to die is thread avoidance and she was on this morning.

That's not true. i logged onto ratskep just before work in order to proxy my vote, not here though.

time to go back for a read.

Molly, i asked you for the summary at the time, because i was exhausted and really didn't want to read. i also asked you if you really felt that Shrimp was scum, but i don't think you answered that. when i was reading last night, i didn't get a very scummy impression from him. which is why i said i was wondering about you, since you had your vote on him. Also, you placed your vote on leviathan... and i was disagreeing about the whole fact that any votes should have been placed on him, because he didn't confirm right away. I don't think that you normally would follow with that logic. i know that you don't like talk of role pm's or anything that is kind of outside the actual game. And that thing with lev, was somewhat similar to that kind of thing.

I was wanting to see where the leviathan votes led to so that is why I voted him. I thought shrimp guy looked squiffy and that is why I voted him and I have since given a reason. I still think he looks a bit squiffy the only way I can internally resolve his dialogue is that he is still somewhat new.

playing off of a "/confirm" in thread is no different than applying pressure when I know other people's work/sleep/posting habits and schedules. not the same thing.

playing off of a role pm is something I hate cos it invariably outs specials by the very nature that is used in the role pm. you are conflating the issue.

[pirate mollie]

also hawk boy I think you are letting shrimp guy off too easy but will you plz vote mantis with me her number one scum tell besides leaving me to die is thread avoidance and she was on this morning.

i still can't believe you said that i leave you to die as scum. No, i night kill you night 1 if i am scum!! and the part about this morning is not true.

mollie. for real now i think you are scum

VOTE: pirate mollie

you left me to die in the tortured artist game and the nightless2 game are you being for realz.

look who has just jumped on a tard fight.

[pirate mollie]

also hawk boy I think you are letting shrimp guy off too easy but will you plz vote mantis with me her number one scum tell besides leaving me to die is thread avoidance and she was on this morning.

That's not true. i logged onto ratskep just before work in order to proxy my vote, not here though.

time to go back for a read.

Molly, i asked you for the summary at the time, because i was exhausted and really didn't want to read. i also asked you if you really felt that Shrimp was scum, but i don't think you answered that. when i was reading last night, i didn't get a very scummy impression from him. which is why i said i was wondering about you, since you had your vote on him. Also, you placed your vote on leviathan... and i was disagreeing about the whole fact that any votes should have been placed on him, because he didn't confirm right away. I don't think that you normally would follow with that logic. i know that you don't like talk of role pm's or anything that is kind of outside the actual game. And that thing with lev, was somewhat similar to that kind of thing.

I was wanting to see where the leviathan votes led to so that is why I voted him. I thought shrimp guy looked squiffy and that is why I voted him and I have since given a reason. I still think he looks a bit squiffy the only way I can internally resolve his dialogue is that he is still somewhat new.

playing off of a "/confirm" in thread is no different than applying pressure when I know other people's work/sleep/posting habits and schedules. not the same thing.

playing off of a role pm is something I hate cos it invariably outs specials by the very nature that is used in the role pm. you are conflating the issue.

maybe it's not the same thing entirely..
but it is still not enough for people to call out scum on him.

i'm not getting your read on Shrimp either. he's coming across as town to me.
why do you find him squiffy?

also mollie, i'm not going to lie, i think you are scum at this point. apologies if you are not. i'm not seeing your votes (leviathan, shrimp and now me) because i said i was wondering about you?

I am not scum.

yes it is cos you said you were wondering about me when do you do that shit when you are town? at least as town you try to feel me out. you didn't even try.

asking for a summary does not count and I missed your shrimp question but you usually at least wait to get more of an impression.

[pirate mollie]

^I also asked you what your thoughts on Adam were

not sure. he seems to be trying to work things out or do you not think this.

what do you think of prohawk? rethink this when I flip cos I am pretty sure I will be the lynch I can see things heading in that direction.

[pirate mollie]

also hawk boy I think you are letting shrimp guy off too easy but will you plz vote mantis with me her number one scum tell besides leaving me to die is thread avoidance and she was on this morning.

i still can't believe you said that i leave you to die as scum. No, i night kill you night 1 if i am scum!! and the part about this morning is not true.

mollie. for real now i think you are scum

VOTE: pirate mollie

you left me to die in the tortured artist game and the nightless2 game are you being for realz.

look who has just jumped on a tard fight.

In the nightless game i was trying to work with you! i don't remember exactly what happened in the tortured artist game though, but i'm thinking that you were at least night 1 or night 2 kill.

in the tortured artist game you left me to die and I had to face 48 hours of ganging it cost town 2 days cos gib asked me to save myself so I voted praying. you were scum.

in the nightless2 game you let jason and I tear each other to itty bitty pieces you were scum in that game too!

however you are going after me on here so there is a difference.

I am not scum mantis.

[pirate mollie]

molly, what are your thoughts on guille?

guille is moving with the herd and it depends on who you think is scummy.

look at who will be feeding this shit right now.

[pirate mollie]

mantis shrimp guy is grooming you.

[pirate mollie]

VOTE: prohawk

[pirate mollie]

going to get my reads in before someone is retarded enough to do what hawk boy says.

mantis - firm town. her pissiness with me reads as genuine. mantis as scum is generally non-confrontational and her getting up in my grill is pretty indicative that she is town. she is also going to get all weird on me cos of how many times I have screwed her as scum.

malacat - liked her reaction just now wrt hawk boy wanting to shut down discussion by ending the day. all of her posts look pretty town motivated if she is scum that was a sweet set up at the very beginning of the game.

levi - his post right after mine on this page looks followy but this could just be chalked up to being new.

code x - who is he has he even posted lol why is he laying low.

adam - unsure

guille - he is in my unsure pile too and I am not opposed to his lynch but we are not done with the day so people need to back off.

shrimp guy - is wearing eau de scum cologne but might actually not be scum. once played a game where I was an indie and all of town looked horrifyingly scummy and scum obliterated them unfortunately with mine and another indie's help. he looks like pondscum but I am not sure he IS scum he seems way too obvious. he is someone town will not want around in endgame and would be a good choice for a tracker or a view. I think his list is gold but probably for different reasons than what other people would think.

hawk boy - really thought he was town! but no. thinking he isn't.

[pirate mollie]

lol xost

mantis shrimp guy is grooming you.

That occurred to me, but not sure he still doesn't seem that scummy.
What do u find scummish exactly?

hedging his bets with his rvs vote-turned-serious vote on me, his list which is super wonky, wking of newbs only to turn on them later I dunno. could be retarded town I guess but if I had to place a bet at this point I would say he and hawk boy make a cute couple.

eta: his prod of code x looks good though.

[pirate mollie]

mantis have you looked at any pairings. this is something that I really didn't have much experience with cos most of the games we play are larger but in the couple of completed games on here it was interesting to go back and see the relationship between the 2 scum. it was really interesting in the newb game.

not sure cos I am still trying to figure out if bussing is a huge thing on this site cos of the style of how people are lynched. would someone bus their teammate in order to gain town cred on d1 and then play the game like an indie? I dunno. I could see them fosing them even voting for them but not pushing their lynch but then in my newb game I let scum slide cos of this very same thinking. well that and cos majiffy was retarded enough to give them a town read when I was questioning them right before he died.

Vote Count

Adam-12 (L-3): Shrimp85, Guile
Prohawk (L-3): Malakittens, Pirate Mollie
Guile (L-2): Adam-12, ProHawk, Leviathan

Not Voting: Code

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[pirate mollie]

something adam said that did stick out. it was the post where he said he thought that I would be calm and collected as scum. mantis that is why I got paranoid about you (and I still might again) cos that is the difference between my town game and scum game so I was trying to figure how he would know that. I have not melted down on this site at all really, the only time melted down as scum was when I retardedly bussed my scummate and d2 mu other scummates pushed for my lynch only to wind up dead by like d3 or 4. the self vote was for realz cos I knew I had no chance against a wall of spehuls, 2 indie blockers and encyclopedia gandalf who knew every aspect of the flavour of the game. how did he know that.

[pirate mollie]

molly, what are your thoughts on guille?

guille is moving with the herd and it depends on who you think is scummy.

look at who will be feeding this shit right now.

I don't think that actually answers Mantis Questions.

well mantis asked me only one question and I did answer but I understand if you do not understand the answer. town moves in herds one way to find is town is to work with interact with players who think like do. scum tend to bump against the tide and until up to that point you were more in line with other players thinking on your 2 reads although your read on me is wrong and you really shouldn't eat bad pizza. there is a whole thread where surely you can come up with something better than "oh I think she is scum cos of a gut feeling", lol. you can pull when there has been a lynch or 2 but to pull that at the start of the game is pretty lame.

also your whole post smacks of being overly defensive if you don't want suspicion thrown at you then there is a simple solution it is called scumhunting and posting from a town POV. I was leaning town on you cos of how quickly your lynch was picking up steam but tbh there is simply not enough substance in your posts to warrant it so you are an unsure read.

[pirate mollie]

eta: I do like your pointing that adam is asking loaded questions though cos that is indeed what he was doing loaded questions can be pretty scummy since the whole purpose of them is to spin in a fake scumtell later.

[pirate mollie]

I get the feeling that busing is fairly common.

So you asking me about pairing prompted me to go back and do a re read. (by the way) - i saw that you said that I will probably go all weird on you, since you've tricked me as scum, probably the last 3 times you were scum. you saying that and recognizing that, actually makes me feel better about you. But, there's still a niggle.

Anyway, your question about pairings prompted me to go back for a full read.

if i were to say right now. I think Malakitten and Prohawk look like they could be a scum pair.

I've got a whole bunch of posts waiting in my browser that i want to comment on... so i'll post those very soon. warning, it will probably be a WOT.

I'll also say, i think Adam and Shrimp look very town to me. And i feel pretty certain about that. (hope i'm not wrong)

Mollie, i'm also, just got right now, going on the basis that you are town. Even if you are not, i'm still just going to blind myself right now... because, i know that i probably could very well get trolley tracked on you, even if it's not correct.

Also - yes, i know that i said Mala looked like town earlier because of the way she went about her case on Levi at the beginning. but .. who says scum can't do that?

actually, this post here.. your response to her. is similar to how i feel, after doing the full read: ( i bolded the part of yours that i agreed with

#146I already asked them to stop the conversation regarding role PM's.

where did you do this?

thinking you are pretty disengaged despite my liking you intro into the game.

Why am I disengaged?

also, prohawk seems to be skirting along the edges too. posting short blurbs each time.

Adam and Shrimp, on the other hand,have been posting long ass posts. that seem like reactionary town to me.

disagree about adam, shrimp guy and malacat also you just saw me as scum create huge wots so

it is whether or not those wots are consistent or town motivated. malacat looked very town with her reaction to hawk boy to me, I think shrimp guy is being given a pass when he shouldn't and adam confuses me. it is like he has a brain but doesn't.

treating you as town mantis until you give me a reason not to.

question for adam: what makes you think that I would be calm and collected as scum? I see you never responded to my comment about you.

[pirate mollie]

Well first off, I don't think it is constructive to talk about pairings without flips and I think were better off not going down this road until at least D2.

maybe it isn't constructive for

you

but I play as I plz thanks.

Vote Count

Adam-12 (L-2): Shrimp85, Guile, Malakittens
Prohawk (L-4): Pirate Mollie
Guile (L-2): Adam-12
Code-X (L-4): Leviathan93
Pirate Mollie (L-4): ProHawk
Malakittens (L-4): Mantisdreamz

Not Voting: Code-X

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[pirate mollie]

Nice try Mantis

Long Posts

equal

Town.
Shots Posts

equal

Scum.

You will most likely not see walls come from me unless we make it to lylo and it is necessary to fish out the last scumbag. Regarding being riled, lead a wagon on me to L-1 and you will see me riled at the rest of my town buddies' foolish blindness.

@Mala - No Intent, Nor Desire oh astute one.

You along with Mollie fell into my trap - try not to be too befuddled

.

@Rest -

Does anyone

not

see the fishiness in Molly?

She won't put any heat back on me for catching her scumminess early on (in fact she tries to buddy up), until she gets something that she has backup on (Mala) and that appears scummy at first glance?

holy shit you are fucking retarded. I am going to have to reevaluate your skill level. still find you scummy though.

[pirate mollie]

few things i have wanted to comment on...

Levi

mafia talk time? they can do that?

I thought you could only do that during a night thing.

and go where mollie? hasn't the game just started?

as for being on the sight, I'm always on the sight or at least I always have the sight on tab on my computer even if i'm sleeping. that way its easy access to follow my games and see who post what and I can be updated faster and respond quicker.

and i think that Shrimp kind of had the right point here, when he said:

mafia talk time? they can do that? I thought you could only do that during a night thing. and go where mollie?

I understand that this can be seen as a response from a true townie, but this can just as easily be scum pretending not to know. (or even actually not knowing, he is new.)
The whole "go where mollie?" Is also pretty ridiculous... It's obvious Pirate Mollie did not mean to go to a certain location or anything.
To me it seems more like a noob claim.

^I was looking at the first post and thinking that it might be noob scum going overboard with appearing noob and asking just a whole bunch of questions (i bolded them)

@adam, I appreciate that. =)

and I agree with adam, I did not feel like Mala was being sarcastic towards me in voting me for not confirming when I should of. she felt like it was something scum would do possibly from her experience in playing the game.

though, I will say it was an innocent misunderstanding on her part

, because I know my reason for acting the way I did and stated it for y'all to see.

^my bold. leviathan... why do you assume that it is an innocent misunderstanding on Mala's part? You don't think she could be scum trying to paint you under a bad light? Are you scum, and know that she is town?

how are we out of the RVS stage? I have no idea who I want to lynch yet. but I will state what I believe from what we have.

Mala seems an adamant experienced scumhunter.
Adam seems to be innocent
Prohawk intimidates me but I have nothing

Shrimp just seems to be plain wrong about stuff

mollie seems to just jump on someone elses decision.
leviathan I state I am plain white townie.

This is my analysis.

^bolded. At this point, Shrimp had voted pirate mollie. Did you know that she was innocent, hence why you say he's wrong? or i guess he was also wrong about reading Mala's post as sarcastic as opposed to serious. But coule you expand on all of this?[/quote]

he bugs me cos it looks like he is trying to overplay the newb card. he is reminding me of felltoearth in the breaking bad game at tr and darkchilde in whatever that game was that I caught her out on her second post. lol, thinking you were scum in both of those games.

[pirate mollie]

^eta: also I can't think of a protown reason to keep levi in the game the only people who will want him around are scum.

[pirate mollie]

lol xost

What does xost mean??

xpost. didn't type in the p.

[pirate mollie]

Malakitten, why are you sticking up for Guille so much?

Not the best question to ask at this particular moment 9.9

Maybe we can shelve this until after Guille starts posting regularly?

Pretty please?

I was trying to respond to this earlier.. but, it confused me too much. i wanted to ask you why that question to mala should be shelved? but since you seemed so adamant about not asking this question, i didn't actually want to ask you.

Simply because she would answer it with more defense of someone that should be defending themselves.

Vote for stopping discussion is lol's

Be caught up soon.

not really when you consider that scum are the ones who either want to stop discussion or steer it.

[pirate mollie]

scum tend to bump against the tide

Wholeheartedly disagree.

scum tend to be stickier with their foses and their votes while steering the game in the direction they want it to go. gee, who does this remind me of.

[pirate mollie]

thanks adam

eta: lol hawk boy, so would you say blending and hiding is what I am doing? can't wait to hear this response. you just shot ur whole dumb case on me down, lol.

but truthfully it depends on the player.

[pirate mollie]

but you've said that it will create a false sense of security. But just because you say that, i don;'t see how it will create that. how is it much different from stating your scum reads and who you think could be certain scum?

The problem is we don't have flips and are uncertain of alignments. Using "pairing" to scum hunt without scum flips is a false scum hunting technique; its illusory. Scum hunting is based on scum tells by individuals, when the individual actually flips scum then its safe to hunt by pairings.

yes but it also gives you the chance to step back and see who has interacted with who. for example, i would say that you and shrimp are not scum together. someone may also say that mollie and i aren't scum together.

i'm not going to argue it though, i think i can see somewhat what you mean.. in that, it's best to just focus on one person at a time... and being that that can even be difficult in itself (to find one scum).. that it's even more wifom to look for 2 at once.

but still it's still good to look at who has kept a distance from one another.

Ya, we pretty much can't help having those thoughts run through our head but its best to keep them on a leash so we stay sane and grounded in actual scum tells. Its also an easy way for scum create cases because you only have to show simple connections or lack of them based on unknown alignments.

lol. it is just as easy to come up with a case based on individual tells. also I am assuming you mean objective tells as opposed to relative ones.

already knew I would most likely be lynched I have played enough games I can see where the herd is going called it earlier right now I am trying to mine the most info for my team hoping that at least one of them will have a brain and will go back and look on past interactions of the dead players.

[pirate mollie]

Now, from Pirate Mollie I am

not

getting any town read whatsoever.
From the PR claim, to the constant OMGUS.
And now her WIFOM's on how scum would act.

Nah, I think I see scum.

UNVOTE: Adam-12
VOTE: Pirate mollie

lol.

[pirate mollie]

Ok caught up.

So, Mantis has been moved to the town category. This means that most likely one of my town reads is incorrect. Of the town reads I have, I am not willing to consider Hawk, Levi, Mantis or Shrimp.

That leaves Mala & Mollie.

Mala -- At first I was really turned off by her summary post (#166) which really sounded off with her suspicion of Mollie & Vote for Hawk. Later however she explains the Hawk vote and unvotes which looks genuine to me because I can understand the lure of the strong meta pull for Hawk. She didn't seem to see how Guille was active lurking even though he posted elsewhere on this site without posting in this game and when he did finally make his first post, it was apparent that he clearly skimmed. She then goes over the top defending Guille against pro-town pressuring even to the point of saying she likes to lurk as town and going in-your-face yelling about it even when he only had one vote on him. I find this behavior bizarre but am hard pressed to believe that (or even explain how) she would do this as scum; the only explanation I have is that she has some kind of affinity with Guille having played with him before and being in a game he is modding and so for her it became personal and beyond the scope of this particular game. She is queried by Mantis about her odd recent postings and apparent lack of scum hunting and replies that she was reaction testing; ultimately I think I buy this because this game is showing itself difficult to figure out and I think she is experiencing some of the same frustration that I have been. Her vote for me for stopping discussion is just bad but I have a set of questions set out for her which should help me understand it better. Ultimately I think its just a residue of her defense of Guille which I actively opposed her on. So with everything taken into account, I am finding it hard to paint a scum picture with Mala.

Mollie -- Upon my re-examination of Mollie I did come across something I missed earlier but stands out to me now. Across many of her posts she seems preoccupied with being lynched and declaring that she is not scum. These declarations have also been accompanied by AtE which I found odd; such as, "When I flip re-examine this" and "I am looking to be the next lynch, I can see things going that way" and "Let me post these reads before people follow Hawk in lynching me". Her vote for Hawk had no explanation. She also directed the tracker/watcher in post #247. She also tends to describe her behavior as scum to show herself as town (self meta); such as, "I WoT as scum" and others. What I liked about Mollie was her level head, strong demeanor & mafia skills and these traits created a town profile in my mind that sort of hid these other subtle signs of scum-conscious behavior. The easy scum tells are usually the ones that result in a D1 lynch of a townie. I am always in favor of the more subtle tells because they're the ones that tend to catch scum. I think a vote here is in order.

Regarding Guille, I expect him to honor his expressed intention to post regularly with substantial content and would ask that he give a summary of the major events of the day (Mala's RVS Levi case, Blacksmith Gate, Mollie-Mantis Meta, Myself vs. Shrimp, Hawk vs. Mollie and anything else of note that he finds). I am not concerned very much about his case against me as every one of my questions have been designed to hunt scum and with substantiation of such, the discussion should move elsewhere.

Unvote, Vote Mollie

fucking first sensible reason I have seen so far in voting on me. but you are wrong.

my game is going to look scummy cos I don't care what I look like. it is a team effort and I do not mind tanking for my team.

also I do not mind getting lynched I have no ego invested in perfect score of not getting lynched cos I play to maximise the info for my team regardless of my role not so that I can sit back on my laurels and say "oh I have only been lynched as town once" lol.

but addressing the subtle observation factor...just coming off of 3 games where I was scum. the audio one on this site, TO and ratskep. the eau de scum perfume has not worn off I suppose but it is untrue that I am trying to fight for survival I am telling mantis I am town so that we can team up and pressure some player's asses we have until the 17th. you are misconstruing things but I can in a way see where you are coming from. you don't know what you are looking at.

I am scumhunting as best as I can but it is hard playing on the defensive. also I accept your apology.

current reads:

mantis - treating as town. looks genuine but I dislike her votes and her reads. trying to work this out with the time we have left.

malacat - her reactions look good IMO. if she is scum she has mastered the art of navigation flow. she has offered up that she will find scum on d2 and the complete scum team by d3. scum don't usually offer this up and I say hold her to it if not lynch her.

adam - starting to lean town. genuinely might be trying to work things out. serious disagreements about playstyle.

shrimp guy - retarded. if town he should simply stop posting if scum well bang on job I guess. doesn't seem to know the difference between anti-town and scummy so if n3w he should probably go learn that.

levi - is being given a pass which he really does not deserve. I usually do not go after newbs but he is playing it up too much especially with his list of reads why is nobody looking at that except mala. he has given everyone a town read except for 2, he seems willing to offer up mantis and hawk boy, thinking they are both town. I could see a malacat/levi team going on with mala bussing him early but mala looks townish to me so wondering who is not wanting him lynched is more of what I am looking at.

hawk boy - what is he doing I don't even. I have a love/hate relationship with gambit players.

guille - is going wtf. non-committal, defensiveness, safe play. looks scummy if we operate from the axis that scum will lay on the periphereal and give good reasons why while trying to keep a low profile that is wrapped up IRL activity. callout to hawk boy if you are seeking for scum to try to blend in this is your best bet.

who else is playing I do not even remember.

[pirate mollie]

VOTE: levianthanwhateverthenumberis

[pirate mollie]

these were the 2 words u should have gotten from anything I addressed to you:

stop posting

guille - is going wtf. non-committal, defensiveness, safe play.

You act as if safe play is a bad thing... You do realize that as town you also have to play it a bit safe in order to not get yourself mislynched right?
Besides, how is he playing it safe? It seems to me that the word you're really looking for is responsible.

chalking this up to inexperience but it sure looks like you are trying to groom guille.

I agree this is a very bold thing to say of Malakittens... It's one thing to make a promise that has no certainty that it can be kept, but it's another thing to even think about demanding her to keep up to it.

Don't pretend we all don't know it's a stupid claim.

And that on it's own is not enough to lynch her in my opinion.

hhhmmm...it isn't a stupid claim malacat is not retarded. I know good play when I see it. she either delivers or she doesn't it really is that simple. as scum she would not highlight that she typically finds scum by d3 unless she can deliver. if she is scum by saying that it puts her in a position to force bus her teammate which hey works in town's favour. scum typically do not do that shit unless she is super bold and thinks her scummate is an idiot which if levi flips scum I would not rule that out I am just going with that it is unlikely.

By the way, this:
"her reactions look good IMO. if she is scum she has mastered the art of navigation flow."
Seems like you are leaning toward a town read, but the other part of the post hints at lynching... confusing really.

I have been saying that all along except when I said she seemed disengaged which nobody latched onto except for mantis. mala is a terrible lynch choice IMO.

By the way, Guille2015...
I really like your posts, very easy to read, very clear, and most important, it all makes sense.
Just your posting style alone is something I can learn from.

^grooming

I am not getting a good handle on who is scum period which is why I am good with my lynch at least it will provide info for my team. I still think hawk boy or levi is the best way to go preferably levi who provided a list of everyone appearing innocent or innocentish. but hey my self worth is not invested in being right all of the time there are better things to base that on.

thinking on all of this mantis your votes and foses look truly terrible.

[pirate mollie]

Ok, I think I have misunderstood the term "groom" and I suspect it comes from another site. I thought it meant setting someone up for later lynch but I think what it really means is "buddying"??

it is a type of buddying I guess. when I think of "buddying" I usually use the word "cosying", grooming is a sweet set up for endgame or a midgame nk flip. cosying supports reads while grooming supports character does this make sense.

[pirate mollie]

thinking on all of this mantis your votes and foses look truly terrible.

I'm finding her to be quite thorough and genuinely active, is this wrong?

well one can be thorough and active and that have nothing to do with one's alignment. her reactions look very genuine I disagree with her foses and votes. her fos on levi looks good to me though cos it did look like he kind of knew how

also why are you talking to me like I am town aren't I the evil scum lord or something like that.

[pirate mollie]

What does "set up for a endgame or midgame nk flip" mean?

okay a few pages back you were telling me how to play and now you are wanting to know what I think, lol.

scum players will pick out who they want in endgame early and set the stage for that. this most definitely is not true for all players I don't think that mantis naturally thinks like this but I have found her to be the exception rather than the rule for strong players and mantis is a strong player.

you can set up a player to have in endgame by appealing to their character rather than their play that is what I mean by grooming it is subtle but a useful tactic used by scum. you can also use them for a midgame flip and ride on their town credibility if you are scum, works wonders.

oh yeah I am scum cos I am looking at things from a scum POV and that must mean I am scum and not using my experience of when I have played as scum in order to scum hunt wrt looking at motivation behind posts /sarcasm. lol, I would rather be lynched on d1 by retards and scum then make it to endgame or even midgame with a shitload of wifom around my head cos that hurts my team.

[pirate mollie]

I would like to note that I particularly do not like this quote:

but addressing the subtle observation factor...just coming off of 3 games where I was scum. the audio one on this site, TO and ratskep.

the eau de scum perfume has not worn off I suppose

This is a very clever statement that sounds good on the surface but really boils down to saying, "I know I looked scummy but I just played 3 games as scum in a row and so its not my fault" but at the same time she demonstrates deep knowledge of scum game play (especially evidenced by her most recent posts). I find this to be manipulative and a serious case of cog-dis; which is she, an expert player or one that is swayed by forces beyond her control?

My opinion at this point is that she is trying to weasel her way out of suspicion in any way that she can and the cog-dis here is pretty good evidence of that.

it all falls apart when you have to marry the idea that I am okay with getting lynched. like

really

I am okay with getting lynched.

speaking of cognitive-dissonance you have been treating me like town and trying to milk me for inside scum play but keeping your vote on me. lol

[pirate mollie]

mollie, how certain are you that shrimp could be scum?

not certain at all.

can't tell if he is retarded or scum.

[pirate mollie]

I am not getting a good handle on who is scum period which is why I am good with my lynch at least it will provide info for my team.

I still think hawk boy or levi is the best way to go preferably levi

who provided a list of everyone appearing innocent or innocentish. but hey my self worth is not invested in being right all of the time there are better things to base that on.

thinking on all of this mantis your votes and foses look truly terrible.

before this post though, i had pro hawk as possible scum. And then questioned about Levi.

so how do my foses look terrible? granted.. i did have a vote on Mala at the time.
But, i'm also wondering why you said that busing is unlikely?

it is your vote on malacat. also I said that the scenario was unlikely not that bussing was unlikely. sorry I got weird on you I guess it is cos I am surprised that you are trusting me at this point after I just flipped scum but then the other scum team must have thought I was town too or they would not have killed me. you are dead in that game btw.

if malacat can do what she says she can do then give her til d3.

I keep coming back to hawk boy cos of how sticky his vote is and he is not even trying to look anywhere else this is what I did in the audio game it gave me leeway to prime you and maestro for an endgame scenario as in I left you 2 alone and made so much noise with thor that it allowed the both of you to lay on the periphereal so that there was no clearcut path that pointed to either of you when I was lynched. I can't wrap my head around a town motivation for a vote to be that sticky and would like for pressure to be placed on him to draw out his other reads so that he can be held accountable later in the game.

I don't like how adam is treating me as town but is okay with my lynch or his suck up posts to hawk boy but I am still going with that he is town. adam, when I flip I would like a short 5 paragraph essay on why you suck at mafia and why preference of style over substance is bad. throw something in there about retarded town herd mentality and I might actually think you are not retarded. hint, look up confirmation bias. this is all predicated on that you are town of course and do it in post game plz.

shrimp guy looks opportunistic as fuck but again retarded town herd mentality/confirmation bias and all. adam and shrimp look like they might be classic forum mafia xenophobes as in they don't know how to assimilate different playstyles or lateral thinking unless you pretty it up for them. I had to deal with a ton of it in my first game on this site in the titanium game where I was lynched d1 as town. adam if you are town and into the meta thing you should go read that game I had scum in my sights in my very first post got talked out of it but then had him back cos like you, he treated me as town but lynched me anyways. there was another player who did this too but he said if there was more time he would have kept me in the game. he ended up facing a ton of fire throughout the game but I understood where he was coming from since he had just subbed in. I am not sure how adam fits into this train of thought but I think shrimp guy might just be dumb but who knows.

so if I step away from a d1 town pile on and look at who is skating on the edges it puts hawk boy, malacat, guille and levi in the forefront. not touching malacat til d3 and hawk boy is getting his hands somewhat dirty so if I work from a hawk boy might actually be town axis that leaves guille and levi. guille got super cranky and looks like he is playing it safe cos why has he not followed his "gut bad pizza read" read and just vote me already cos there is the possibility of knowing how I will flip that's why. that is what I mean by playing it safe.

wow what a nice brain dump.

[pirate mollie]

@Mollie: So far I have not once agreed that I have treated you as town (since my vote for you). Have I been evaluating your defense? Yes. Treating you as town? No.

uhm yeah.

Ok, I think I have misunderstood the term "groom" and I suspect it comes from another site. I thought it meant setting someone up for later lynch but I think what it really means is "buddying"??

why are you asking me this if you are town and think that I am scum it seems like you are wavering on your read cos who the fuck cares what terminology scum use.

thinking on all of this mantis your votes and foses look truly terrible.

I'm finding her to be quite thorough and genuinely active, is this wrong?

why are you asking me for my read on mantis if you think I am scum. you shouldn't be trusting my reads on anybody if you think I am scum you dummy.

my flip will put you in the awkward position of having to defend mantis against your town reads. I will flip town and I am pretty sure mantis is town so good luck with that. go ahead and start that essay.

also I will accept your apology only if you are town and have learned something from this.

What does "set up for a endgame or midgame nk flip" mean?

again why are you asking your main suspect for scum about terminology usage or game strategy? you look like a cat who is playing with its food like seriously you are not treating me as scum here.

thinking on all of this mantis your votes and foses look truly terrible.

I'm finding her to be quite thorough and genuinely active, is this wrong?

well one can be thorough and active and that have nothing to do with one's alignment. her reactions look very genuine I disagree with her foses and votes. her fos on levi looks good to me though cos it did look like he kind of knew how

also why are you talking to me like I am town aren't I the evil scum lord or something like that.

I don't think your reads are unimportant.

they should be if you are convinced I am scum before you have a flip.

@Mantis: What do you think about my post regarding Mollie? Does it make any sense? I'd rather hear your full opinion in your own words than address any specific concerns/thoughts that I have.

wtf is this shit I don't even. you are either trying to garner support if you are scum for what you think is an easy lynch or you are town trying to gain clarity on a waffely read. since you are saying that you are convinced that I am scum well......

I would like to note that I particularly do not like this quote:

but addressing the subtle observation factor...just coming off of 3 games where I was scum. the audio one on this site, TO and ratskep.

the eau de scum perfume has not worn off I suppose

This is a very clever statement that sounds good on the surface but really boils down to saying, "I know I looked scummy but I just played 3 games as scum in a row and so its not my fault" but at the same time she demonstrates deep knowledge of scum game play (especially evidenced by her most recent posts). I find this to be manipulative and a serious case of cog-dis; which is she, an expert player or one that is swayed by forces beyond her control?

My opinion at this point is that she is trying to weasel her way out of suspicion in any way that she can and the cog-dis here is pretty good evidence of that.

manipulative eh? where is the cog-dis btw?

swayed by forces beyond my control is a good point I voted majiffy in the last game cos my old mentor got on line and and was all like are you scum and I said no and he was "change your vote" and I was like okay cos we did not have a don flip there was 1 scum left and majiffy got cute. my mentor was trolling me he had not even logged in to see that a game was in play he just knows me and knows I love to play mafia. fuck you, luis.

but let's get back to the cog-dis that you are trying to red-flag shall we?

I would like to note that I particularly do not like this quote:

but addressing the subtle observation factor...just coming off of 3 games where I was scum. the audio one on this site, TO and ratskep.

the eau de scum perfume has not worn off I suppose

This is a very clever statement that sounds good on the surface but really boils down to saying, "I know I looked scummy but I just played 3 games as scum in a row and so its not my fault" but at the same time she demonstrates deep knowledge of scum game play (especially evidenced by her most recent posts). I find this to be manipulative and a serious case of cog-dis; which is she, an expert player or one that is swayed by forces beyond her control?

My opinion at this point is that she is trying to weasel her way out of suspicion in any way that she can and the cog-dis here is pretty good evidence of that.

it all falls apart when you have to marry the idea that I am okay with getting lynched. like

really

I am okay with getting lynched.

speaking of cognitive-dissonance you have been treating me like town and trying to milk me for inside scum play but keeping your vote on me. lol

^Adam, maybe you should remove your vote from mollie, if you are town.

Because she is saying she wants to be lynched? Frankly, in evaluating her defense overall, I don't get a solid townie feel from it. I think she is a master manipulator and I am definitely feeling that but I don't like the cog-dis at all.

plz clarify the cog-dis that you are banging on about tia.

I doubt you will get a townie feel from me cos I do not think like you which is why I am considering the possibility that you are town along with mantis's endorsement. it is normal to gravitate to people who think like you in a game hence why I always say town moves in herds (sometimes led by scum). I am coming from a place that you are generally xenophobic but then you seem to be giving levi a pass. I am good with my lynch cos it will leave a trail and mantis is no dummy and neither is malacat scum will not be able to take them both out. also if hawk boy is town it will give him food for re-evaluation.

And the anti-town statements aren't in her favor either.

what anti-town statements can you plz clarify here.

[pirate mollie]

This list of anti-town statements was generated subsequent to a wagon being formed on you:

already knew I would most likely be lynched I have played enough games I can see where the herd is going called it earlier

This is a defeatist attitude that is not helpful to town.

my game is going to look scummy cos I don't care what I look like.

Town doesn't say this.

also I do not mind getting lynched

Town doesn't say this.

I am good with my lynch at least it will provide info for my team

Yes, but only as a LAST DITCH EFFORT for town. Town doesn't say this the way you have expressed it here.

like really I am okay with getting lynched.

Town doesn't say this.

town does

too

say this cos I am saying this right now. your repetition does not make your statement true. I take it you didn't look at the titanium game on this site did you or you did and you are scum who is trying to spin it. do you know who fights for their survival? scum do it, it fucking never fails. my team's win condition is not dependent on my survivability but scum's certainly is. I would rather not be around for end of game wifom with this much aggro drawn on me so early on trying to paint this as scummy makes you look disgustingly scummy.

mantis why the fuck do you have this guy in your town pile I don't get this.

You are not a derp, I don't see how you can possibly believe that being lynched as town is good for the "town team". This is manipulative cog-dis.

see above. when I am town I think of maximising the options

for

town it might be an unfamiliar concept to you if you don't know about game strategy. you do not want any player in endgame who will compromise an objective and by compromising an objective I mean someone who has a bunch of suspicion on their head. I bet hawk boy knows what I am talking about.

wtf ever I am done talking to you unless you actually have something not scummy to say cos right now you look like pondscum right now if you had a brain cell you would be voting for levi or hawk boy to see what happens.

Alright. Going to be v/la til Monday night. Got a bunch of tests to study for and work this weekend.
Ill try and post a little bit, but not certain.

this sucks donkey balls.

[pirate mollie]

Taking your logic to its natural conclusion, you should be D1 lynched every game UNLESS your gameplay is naturally pro-town and you don't need to be concerned with how you look but you say, "My game IS gonna look scummy" in which case you aren't in the realm of logic at all.

my game is protown cos after a while people learn that I naturally arrive on scum at some point but it is true it takes a stronger player to pull the retards off of me and circumvent scum. my play tends to attract retards and scum who are looking for an easy lynch.

you fucked up adam you know I am not scum and now you are reaching in order to mainstay your vote. you should look up what "tanking" means.

by what you have posted I am either teh ultimate scum queen or what I am does not make sense to you what does not make sense to me is that you are trying to have it both ways which is why I am fosing you hardcore.

[pirate mollie]

I hope people can see how terribly circular her logic is here, if you can't just ask me, I will go off on it.

In a sentence:

If you want to help the town team, then care enough about your play to post as town does!

Don't sit here and tell us, "My image is compromised and so its better for the town if I'm lynched" when its your own admitted fault!

Its just more AtE plain and simple.

I am I can't be responsible for your own idiocy in that you might have no idea what you are looking at there is no fighting ignorance when peeps are determined to stay that way.

[pirate mollie]

seriously thinking you are scum adam.

[pirate mollie]

My case on Mollie boils down to:

1) Her RVS scum-aware vote for Shrimp

lol you are making this shit up

2) Her obsession with being lynched & declaring she is not scum

the obsession is on your part with how sticky you are with your vote despite by your logic you should be counter.

3) Her directing of the Tracker/Watcher

this is not a scumtell more of a town tell HTH

4) Cog-dis & AtE in her defense when wagoned

is this your first mafia game? lol

5) Her anti-town attitude when wagoned

my anti-town attitude is working from the premise that as town I would not be okay with my lynch. hope everyone sees the flaw in this theory.

Feel free to inquire about any point.

I did!

[pirate mollie]

^scum

[pirate mollie]

I want to comment on issue du jour (Mollie vs Adam) before I branch out at all:

1) Mollie -- why's your vote on Leviathan when you're pretty adamantly calling Adam scum? You're not even attempting to push your own wagon, and since I'm reading it as PoE due to #415, it really makes little sense considering your past few posts and the gamestate that your vote would be where it is. What gives?

I don't think my vote will make a case better than what I have already said. tbh I am flirting with the idea he is scum I am not committed to it. like I want him to convince me otherwise cos I think my lynch will make him look bad and that is not what I want for my team.

frigging do an iso on hawk boy and give me your input why don't you.

[pirate mollie]

ProHawk: Does me being quiet = scummy? You played before with me and you know exactly what I'm doing.

I am disappointed in this. Nuff Said. Please re-read #378. Quiet

equal

scummy. Quiet wasn't the key word, Mollie was.

Mollie! You almost took my advice, but what I

really

like is how you bait Adam into tunneling you with this AtE "you think im scum but treat me like town" BS, and then accuse him of being sticky. Its quite comical indeed. Your AtE attacks and cries are like a spotlight in my face, can't see much of your content around the blinding light. Dial it back a notch or two. You are looking like a promising lynch today, but I did find one gem in all of the scummy fluff.

guille

got super cranky

and looks like he is

playing it safe

cos why has he not followed his "gut bad pizza read" read and just vote me already cos there is the possibility of

knowing how I will flip

that's why. that is what I mean by playing it safe.

ALL of his posts (few I might add) are like this. What is the deal with these fence sitters this game? Guille, you are taking your sweet time which just may be how you play, but its lookin bad to me. I would much rather see you take time to compile a complete post, instead of leaving us with bits and pieces and have to wait a whole day to get part B.

Sorry Mollie, its time for a new angle.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Guille

Anyone else notice how he managed to make it all the way to L-1, with my voicings of impending doom causing the not so innocent to lash out in anger and he

fails to even mention

anything about it?

Well, there is more where scum Guille is concerned, lets see if anyone else can find the clues...

Guille its time for some real fire beneath your wings. Wagon Ho!

twice you have apologised to me what gives.

[pirate mollie]

i think that she's town. pretty certain actually.

And... what revelation have you that we don't?

QFT.

it isn't a QTF until you have a flip.

eta: I wanted pressure placed on you.

[pirate mollie]

VOTE: guille

[pirate mollie]

i think guille is making a huge case on mollie because, i think scum were banking on her getting lynched. and they want to keep it that way.

I think so too!!!!

mantis how many games have we played together? at least about 50? probably more than that we have been playing together for about 2 years.

adam, hawk boy, does that explain why mantis thinks that I am town? when you have played together that much you pretty much have a good grasp of their meta. while mantis and I both have the potential to sneak past each other as scum it is very rare that one of us will give the other a super strong town read and it not be correct.

guille what exactly are you asking about grooming I don't understand your question could you plz clarify.

borky who are you subbing in for and did I like them.

also hawk boy I understand that you might be feeling a little bit intimidated and overwhelmed by my radiant beauty but don't worry you will learn to like me I am an acquired taste.

***not part of this game***

mantis why are you enabling jerome on the zombie board there is a reason none of us are on it and teeth was a dummy I was going to die anyway that's how a suicide bomber works you know if you would get on skype I wouldn't have to be telling you this stuff in a game thread, lol.

[pirate mollie]

ctrl+z works wonders.

No...fricken way. I never knew this.

Pirate mollie

throw something in there about retarded town herd mentality and I might actually think you are not retarded.

you are very busy ad-hominemming. And this is working against you really.
Your whole post in post 415 is full of personal insults.

I find this voting guille pretty ridiculous.
I am pretty sure both scum are on that wagon now.
That wagon just grows way too fast, at first the reason was because he didn't post much, but now?

Prohawk, Mantisdreamz and Pirate mollie, I would like to know clearly why you find Guille2015 scum.
Just for informations sake.
I really can't find any scummy behavior in Guille2015.

I don't like Mantisdreamz because I believe mantis is just following whatever Pirate Mollie does.
At first you have a scum read on mollie, and then later on you want to team up?

yeah I pretty much insult everybody most of the time I usually don't mean any of it if you find yourself wanting to reach through the computer and strangle me you can pretty much bank on me being town if you find yourself liking me and thinking I am making sense you should probably be worried.

guille's push for my lynch at the time he did it looked opportunistic as fuck and it still looks opportunistic. it looks like he is cosying up to adam. I laid out a case earlier for why I was looking at guille in post #54 maybe you should go look at that. hawk boy has made it pretty clear he is wanting pressure on guille if you have a town read on hawk boy why are you not working with him.

[pirate mollie]

Shrimp, Guilles scumminess is in plain sight, but beyond the field of view. Go re-read guille's posts and you should pick some up. If not, give us reasons why you think he is town and we can go from there.

Mollie, only if you are a girl cause guys' radiant beauty generally have no effect on me. Also, you forgot one of the biggest aspects of working with someone. It would also give you the knowledge of what exactly to do to fool the other. You have already refuted your point in a previous post, so this angle isn't a good one to work. Meta cases are weak.

I somewhat disagree with you hawk boy. lol, just got into a post game discussion with majiffy over this cos he pretty much agrees with you. I use meta when it is a player that I know pretty well. like I know their work schedules, sleep schedules, etc. meta is not the only scumhunting tool I have in my box, I use different things for different games. in some games meta is the

only

tool I have cos some players will be so objectively scummy game after game and lynching or fosing doesn't seem to have an effect on them so they are not going to improve their game no matter what you do so you have to learn their town tells and most definitely their special tells. <----- do you guys call these relative tells here?

meta or pattern-matching should not be used when you are new or if you suck at it. it is only an asset if you can provide consistent reasoning behind what they are thinking or how they are posting in the game but then when it comes to making cases based on meta alone you are right it is pretty weak and you have to develope a reputation for it in order to get people to listen to you. but sometimes I have known who scum were on d2 just by the nk choice alone and that is a meta thing.

having said all of that my town read on mantis

is

meta based cos of her hardcore wk of adam which tbh I don't fully understand but then she often sees things that I don't. her posts look genuine to me but I get why this looks suspicious to other people who don't know us or our history or why we would think the way that we do.

the thing is that I have been a part of more town wins as town by finding town rather than just trying to find scum. you make me nervous cos I am not entirely sure what as scum you are capable of. if I had a barometer of what your scum game looked like you would be easier to read and no I am not going to look at your previous games cos I am not in them. I reaction test in a different way and I am not about to give up what I am looking for. I have shifted you to town but probably for reasons you might not understand. I am more of a lateral thinker.

[pirate mollie]

Ahh wonderful. So which one of you had the scummiest response to...

So on that note....

Guille

any last words before the blacksmith hammers your head in?

Mala... just kinda pissed off at the speed of things.
Molly, now #244 combined with #247 are great.
Shrimp... just trying to sort things through as usual - ObvTown

In other words, who decided to take that line and twist it to make a case against a townie while attempting to gain town-cred all at the same time? You know who I think it is, buut I will let you decide.

For the record the blacksmith

equal

ProHawk. And I had no intent to hammer.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Pirate Molly

The winner Molly it is. PS - the only reason Shrimp and I make a cute couple is cause we are both ObvTown!

Guille, can't wait to see who your vote lands on tonight.

If this post was a magazine I would buy a lifetime subscription. I don't know how keeps reading my mind or making plays that I wish I could, but he does.

Not understanding the Hawk vote here for you Code-Bork.

Could you please comment on the days events? I will post a list in a second.

why are you resurrecting a post that was like 200 posts ago and you have since replied you have a mancrush on hawk boy we get it.

mantis you see him as town and hawk boy is treating him as town but really I don't get it. it isn't cos he is trolley tracking on me it is cos that the reasoning behind it is dumb and too dumb for a player who thinks he needs to give me advice on how to play.

[pirate mollie]

Well considering that I haven't read most of the thread, I can't exactly give you evidence that I've read most of the thread

. Stop giving me homework; it's demeaning.

And the post you quoted is awful.

hawk boy if borky turns out to be scum this is what I mean by scum bumping against the tide. do you see where I am coming from? it felt like town coming together with you mantis adam and I.

also guille read one of my old games is that typical for scum to do on this site or are they like bork and can't even read the game that they are in? in my experience scum tends to be the latter.

[pirate mollie]

yes I did and he did the same thing to me which is why I have been saying for a while that I do not like him!!!! I do get why hawk boy has him as town but I am still a bit unsure about him but I am going to treat him like retarded town.

I am not liking borky.

[pirate mollie]

also shrimp guy, grooming is what you do during the game in order to prepare for endgame and if mantis were scum she would not want me around for endgame.

[pirate mollie]

i liked pro hawk's vote switch to guille.

i had levi as town at the beginning for a reason that i have no recollection of right now. <- i bet someone's going to try to use that sentence against me.

levi does not seem that town to me right now. need more participation from him.

You didn't really answer me. I don't really care why you initially had him as town, I care more why you first say 1) Levi and Hawk makes a likely team and afterword 2) Prohawk looks more town now. This looks like a backhanded way to switch your read on Levi without a reason.

@Mollie: Come on. My reading all the cases D1 is neither going to help me find scum (It's hard to tell the difference between confirmation bias and fabrication without flips) nor is going to help you see that I'm town (I am essentially forced to cherry pick what to post about and that's easily manipulable as scum). Post-flip, that's a different story. Do you actually think I should do what Adam's asking me to do?

Lynch prohawk. His switch onto Guille was the opposite of good.

don't "com on mollie" me mr. borkybork I happen to think you are a pretty good town player certainly better than the limp responses you have been giving. hawk boy's vote switch to guille did look good cos he was actually following through with what he said about scum tending to hide and try to blend in and he was trying to draw guille out. he was being very consistent with that vote switch. I think he knows that I am town but will go with lynching a player who other players clearly have a problem with rather than have a no-lynch.

[pirate mollie]

Ya he did have a good point there. I'm glad you guys are following the rules even on Skype.

we would never break a game that way. I am visiting her in febuary that is why I want to get her on skype but as a general rule we do not talk while we are in games together so that it doesn't influence the game we are in but this is important. I somewhat slightly worried that she failed to mention that I am visiting her and we are road tripping to nova scotia but scum mantis is usually not this noisy so I am sticking with my town read.

[pirate mollie]

hawk boy why do you have borky as town? I don't.

[pirate mollie]

@Bork: I outline my initial reads in my summary post; apparently you didn't read it.

Since then those reads have remained true as his posts continued. He just thinks like I do and plays like I wish I could. I have agreed with every aspect of his play; I know that sounds over the top but its true.

adam plz set aside your dislike of me and just listen to what I have to say. scum can make really good posts and look very town in fact more often than not I have found that sometimes the towniest looking players are actually scum. scum have more of a motivation to survive so they are more careful with their posts. that is what hawk boy means when he says scum try to hide and blend in. putting someone in your town pile

is

a good way to find town but if town after town are getting lynched you might have to do a hard reset on who you have in your town pile.

the only thing that worries me about hawk boy is that he apologised to me (scum guilt <------ I actually got busted for this in an early scum game once and I have seen other scum do it too, it is an aTe that you keep clamouring about) and that he is steering and that he is witholding a town read on me. I see borky's point it isn't out of the blue but borky looks worse cos he has not actually read the entire thread but is saying hawk boy is sure scum. and he very well might be but I am wiling to give him another day unless I can be convinced otherwise. if I borky flips town and I get lynched or night killed you will need to do a hard reset. I think you are enamoured with hawk boy's style pretty plz don't let that cloud judgment the entire game.

[pirate mollie]

don't "com on mollie" me mr. borkybork I happen to think you are a pretty good town player certainly better than the limp responses you have been giving. hawk boy's vote switch to guille did look good cos he was actually following through with what he said about scum tending to hide and try to blend in and he was trying to draw guille out. he was being very consistent with that vote switch. I think he knows that I am town but will go with lynching a player who other players clearly have a problem with rather than have a no-lynch.

I'm curious what you think the town response for Guille would be at this point. ProHawk knows you're town? Seriously?

@prohawk -- Who should I be voting? Mollie or Guille?

@Adam -- You basically went "read the whole thread and comment on [7 vague talking points]". No direction. I don't consider that pro-town. I'm pretty much done with that point.

yeah well a bunch of cross posts cos apparently he is claiming he still finds me scummy! which contradicts what he said about what scum typically do which is to hide and blend in which I am definitely not doing.

[pirate mollie]

@Prohawk -- what do you think of Guille's case on Mollie, then?

His last post pretty closely mirrors my own sentiments regarding Mollie. However it greatly lowers the probability of Mollie being scum with Guille. A Guille scum flip would essentially clear Mollie as well as a Mollie scum flip would essentially clear Guille.

Again, hunting

equal

tunneling. Just so we are clear, my read on Mollie is still scummy, but we aren't at critical lynching point yet. Right now we are voting to apply pressure and give us some reads, or are you suggesting the day is done and we should move on?

you never answered my question...do you think it is typical for scum to go back and read a previous game or do you think that it is more typical for scum to come in and not read the thread and plop a vote down?
also how are you marrying the thought that scum "hide and blend in" when that is not what I am doing?

[pirate mollie]

jesus christ the xposts

Two things Mollie ~

My apologies were sarcastic, and not sincere

, which

guilt

.
We have not given you a chance to hide and blend in, you were in the spotlight since we first started.

hhhhhmmm........

no, I put myself in the spotlight but hey I see you are rewriting history okay you keep pushing that narrative.

Vote Count

Adam-12 (L-4): Malakittens
Pirate Mollie (L-3): Shrimp85, Guile
Guile (L-2): ProHawk, Pirate Mollie, Mantisdreamz
ProHawk(L-4): borkjerfkin
borkjerfkin (L-4): Adam-12

Not Voting: leviathan93

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[pirate mollie]

@Mollie: I wasn't planning on giving him a "free game pass" but his D1 actions are very pro-town so far.

I thought your conversation about hiding/blending in vs. bumping against the tide revolved more about independent thought vs. going with the group; I don't see how it relates to putting people in my town pile?

I will let Hawk respond to the points that specifically apply to him.

town tends to move in herds but you can only really see it in hindsight usually. you have to play enough games to get a "feel" for when there is town herd movement on scum. it is really hard to explain. it "felt" right when mantis, you and I were talking and working things out and shifting to guille but guille going back and looking up an old game makes me pause. I am trusting mantis's read on you and you are being more flexible with your reads so you are looking more townish. scum are more sticky with their reads cos they are trying to steer the game for who they want in endgame in order to maximise for a win. <------ this is what good scum do.

the bumping against the tide was in response cos it felt like town was coming together with pressure on guille who was skating around the edges at that point. but now that you are leaning that guille might actually be town and with my flip I will be town, what do you think of hawk boy saying that a scum flip from either of us would clear the other? I am asking this cos I know I am town and I am wondering if guille is too cos he went back and looked at a previous game and who as scum does that. is that typical of this site? that is why I am asking.

you are just going to have to use your own best judgment but I am relieved to hear that you will not be giving him a pass all game. steering is not necessarily a scum tell strong town players do it too so I look for who is pushing an agenda and not just votes.

I know I am town and I know how I will flip

[pirate mollie]

hawk boy I am asking these questions again:

why do you think borky looks town?

is going back and reading a previous game something scum typically do on this site?

[pirate mollie]

what do you think of hawk boy saying that a scum flip from either of us would clear the other?

I see his point but its really theoretical and doesn't add any weight to a case unless we are deadlocked and evaluating comparative lynch strength. When a scum actually flips, statements like these have value.

okay but can you also see how knowing my alignment and wondering if guille might be town cos of reasons already stated do you see how it kind of looks like how it is a sweet set up for a double town lynch?

I am okay with my lynch and I know that you think that this is anti-town but I am not a player to have in lylo unless I am convincing enough that I am really town and right now it doesn't look like I am. on-line gamers will know what I mean by "tanking". that is what I am doing I am tanking for town. we obviously have different playstyles and that is honestly what I was trying to get you to see earlier in the game, look at the substance beyond the style.

being noisy in games provides a minefield of info if the players go back and look at interactions with a flip in mind of a dead player. hawk boy is committed to a scummy read on me and I am good with that actually cos it highlights the cognitive dissonance of saying scum try to hide and blend in when that isn't what I have done at all. I have been noisy and insulting from the get go although to be honest this is actually me toned down a bit. just a bit though, lol.

would like to get some answers from hawk boy so I can get back to my town read on him cos right now I am waffling. again.

[pirate mollie]

Molly, your scummy side is showing again.

You can't try and paint yourself town because you don't think you fit my scum status-quo. When the time is right, we will cover this all again.

For your questions, Bork is town because he came into the game and garnered negative attention right from the get-go

. Post #558 is just icing on his townie-cake.

Your question of research really doesn't matter because meta cases are weak and usually wrong. You also do realize that he used that research to paint you as scum and being inconsistent right? Scum can and will do additional work if it will help further their cause.

except I did this too and you had me down as scum so

borky would you like to state what I did that you find questionable? did you read the thread yet?

[pirate mollie]

eta: that is actually misrepresenting guille he used his research to ask a question or that is how I took it. his case has been based on my play in this game so no, it was not a meta read.

[pirate mollie]

do you see how it kind of looks like how it is a sweet set up for a double town lynch?

Allow me to show you what my realization really paints with simple equations.

Mollie and Guille are not scum together. Therefore...
If Mollie flips scum, this adds major town points to Guille.
If Guille flips scum, this adds major town points to Mollie.

If Mollie flips town, this says nothing absolute toward the alignment of Guille.
If Guille flips town, this also says nothing absolute toward the alignment of Mollie.

Hence, my statement doesn't setup anything even remotely close to a double town lynch.

missed this post in eta.

okay I see where your reasoning is but that wasn't quite what I got from your earlier post.

[pirate mollie]

did you read the thread yet?

I'm reading and contributing simultaneously.

Basically when you say that you're seeing the writing on the wall when it comes to your lynch and you're cool with that but you're tanking for the team, if you're so self-aware as to know this is anti-town, why aren't you self-aware enough just not to do it?

I decided to just "tank" when I drew a bunch of aggro for really dumb reasons.

[pirate mollie]

Reading other games is looking for meta.

Pray-tell what negative attention did you intentionally garner?

@Pirate Mollie:

The only other game that you used the word Grooming was the Newbie 1286 game.

I don't want to read through it, can you give me a summary of where that got you, considering you were town in that game.

Conclusion: Adam has the best case on Mollie, and I agree with him.

She is inconsistent.

She overreacts to certain accusations and her OMGUS is off the charts.

See bold. It sure looks like he is trying to use it to support his conclusion of you being inconsistent to me.

@Adam, my statement was in no way linking two scum together, but rather just the opposite - read my equation if you are confused.

except that to me it reads that he was agreeing with adam about what adam thought was my inconsistency not the use of my meta to confirm his case.

Vote Count

Adam-12 (L-4): Malakittens
Pirate Mollie (L-3): Shrimp85, Guile
Guile (L-2): ProHawk, Pirate Mollie, Mantisdreamz
Mantisdreamz(L-4): borkjerfkin
borkjerfkin (L-4): Adam-12

Not Voting: leviathan93

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[pirate mollie]

Reading other games is looking for meta.

Pray-tell

what negative attention did you intentionally garner?

@Pirate Mollie:

The only other game that you used the word Grooming was the Newbie 1286 game.

I don't want to read through it, can you give me a summary of where that got you, considering you were town in that game.

Conclusion: Adam has the best case on Mollie, and I agree with him.

She is inconsistent.

She overreacts to certain accusations and her OMGUS is off the charts.

See bold. It sure looks like he is trying to use it to support his conclusion of you being inconsistent to me.

@Adam, my statement was in no way linking two scum together, but rather just the opposite - read my equation if you are confused.

wrt my bold: you are spinning this. I drew negative attention at my entrance into the thread which you voted on didn't you?

after getting a bunch of votes for really dumb reasons I was okay with my lynch cos I am not someone I would want in lylo! with this much suspicion and decided to just go for it and mine as much info for my team which is what I am trying to do. if you are town you will be okay with this. if you are scum you will be pushing for an easy lynch. you will be accountable for a pile of dead town if that is what you are going for. this is not rocket science.

[pirate mollie]

hey hawk boy do you want to remark on how I pointed out that guille's accusation was that I was inconsistent wrt adam's case or do you want to chalk it up to meta building on guille's part?

[pirate mollie]

I would like to note that I particularly do not like this quote:

but addressing the subtle observation factor...just coming off of 3 games where I was scum. the audio one on this site, TO and ratskep.

the eau de scum perfume has not worn off I suppose

This is a very clever statement that sounds good on the surface but really boils down to saying, "I know I looked scummy but I just played 3 games as scum in a row and so its not my fault" but at the same time she demonstrates deep knowledge of scum game play (especially evidenced by her most recent posts). I find this to be manipulative and a serious case of cog-dis; which is she, an expert player or one that is swayed by forces beyond her control?

My opinion at this point is that she is trying to weasel her way out of suspicion in any way that she can and the cog-dis here is pretty good evidence of that.

manipulative eh? where is the cog-dis btw?

Ok, I missed that you asked that question while quoting my post.

The cog-dis is how you use the faulty notion of "scum perfume" as an excuse for looking scummy. I would expect this defense from someone with less than 9 games, not somebody with over 90. The dissonance comes with other of your defense when you demonstrate deep knowledge of scum play. You can't possibly expect me to believe that somehow because you played scum your last 3 games that you can't help looking scummy; if you look scummy as scum then you are either a newb or scum trying to pull the same sort of defense that you are trying to pull now. Based on your skill set, its just not possible that "scum perfume" even exists in your game and your using it as a defense shows a scum mindset that is trying to overcompensate for its guilt with a faulty excuse.

adam I don't think you quite get how cog-dis works. saying that I may be wearing eau de scum cologne cos of lingering scum games is not cog-dis it is an admission stating that I had a streak of scum games and sometimes when a player has this when they get into their next game they will sometimes post from what appears to be from a scum POV even though they are not. I have trolleytracked on players for this too and there really is not much to be done about it except learn from it which I genuinely hope that you will do.

hawk boy is demonstrating cog-dis by keeping me in his scum pile when he has clearly stated that scum try to hide and blend in. he put his vote on me early and at a time when it was really obvious that I was not trying "hide" and "blend in". then he says that the reason I was not "hiding" and "blending in" was cos he and others wouldn't let me. this is untrue. I have been front and center from the get go. cog-dis is also saying that when you apologised you were being sarcastic when it was sandwhiched between serious posts. not to mention it was also downright douchey if he was being sarcastic.

I am trying to sincerely reach out to you cos I am hoping you will do a hard reset once I have flipped and realise that I have a played a shitload of games and might actually know what I am talking about. you should have trusted mantis's read on me she just watched me play 4 scum games (2 at TO, 1 at ratskep and the audio game here) she probably has a better grasp of my scum game then anything else that you guys can come up with.

do you even remember why I drew so much suspicion? cos I sheeped malacat when other players had the assumption that it was still rvs. she clearly stated that it was not an rvs vote but someone I can't remember who said she was being sarcastic when I knew she wasn't. the sites that I play on we do not even have an rvs stage most of us will just jump right in and get our hands dirty.

anyways I do not know what to say to you anymore. sorry I don't play exactly the way you want me to play I am what I am I will try to avoid you in future games. cheers.

[pirate mollie]

Let me try replying page by page. Should be faster and more concise. I have read through to the end already, so I might reference things to come.

@Pirate Mollie

: The only other game that you used the word Grooming was the Newbie 1286 game. I don't want to read through it, can you give me a summary of where that got you, considering you were town in that game.

i've heard her use grooming countless times before.

Conclusion: Adam has the best case on Mollie, and I agree with him. She is inconsistent. She overreacts to certain accusations and her OMGUS is off the charts.

i like how you added in that Adam (who is most likely town) has a good case on her. maybe you are buddying up to him?

i think guille is making a huge case on mollie because, i think scum were banking on her getting lynched. and they want to keep it that way.

I think so too!!!!

(...)

guille what exactly are you asking about grooming I don't understand your question could you plz clarify.

What benefit would mafia get from lynching Mollie. If she is the closest to figuring out who is scum, then lynching her now is the last thing mafia want done.

I placed the grooming question outside of my reads. Hence it's not part of my reads directly. I do want to know about it though, because this is something that I use as a scum-hunting tool. Although I call it buddying. From what I read from Mollie she considers it as a scum tell. Which is fine. I noticed the times It has been used with me. Although your defenition of grooming is different.

The reason I asked is because I don't have time to read through that game to get to the information I need. Best to ask the source. What I want is how accurate was identifying the grooming in that game to finding scum. Is it an effective marker?

I am cautious of shrimp for this reason, but Mala I can safely say is clear for me. I recognize this play of mala as her town meta. Could she have improved to the point that I would think this way. That's a possibility, but it's not something I am concerned at this point.

The reason I want to understand Mollie with her use of grooming as a marker for scum, is because she has pointed out several instances of grooming towards me and yet she thinks I am scum. By what I understand the grooming marker is reflective of Scum grooming Town. If I am wrong correct me.

K I'm as caught up as I'm gonna get.

Levi is town for stuff, Shrimp's probably town for being just on a totally different page than everyone else, Adam's town for the sincerity of his case but I don't like that case save that I think Mollie's vote on shrimp was bad. Otherwise I think it's confirmation bias in the sense that you're giving explanations of why scum-mollie would be AtEing all over the place -- that's circular logic.

Guille is weird. The conclusions in #462 (Adam's case being good) don't follow from the rest of that post (basically that Mollie does logical fallacies and ad-hominem, neither of which are scumtells).

Mollie's only bad points so far have been her voting patterns -- and that's honestly something I only really want to delve into if we get a scum flip. I'd sooner vote Guille over Mollie, but:

VOTE: ProHawk
#257 makes me wanna dig out that picture where the dude says "joke's on them I was only faking being retarded" because that's pretty much what you're doing here. Everyone you quoted in that post's reactions were some variation on "what the hell are you doing?" Mollie's was just a little blunter than the others -- and you didn't lambaste Mala for having essentially the same exact reaction. His jump off Mollie in #449 is awful especially with the tone of the rest of that post pointing to Mollie being scum and being dodgy about exactly what about Guille is bad to him.

@Mollie -- I'm Code. Why am I answering how you felt about him?

Bork, it's too bad you don't have a clue. But you're town so not much I can do about that.

I don't think that this posts clears him as town. I don't see scum intent however. But he is wrong though. Prohawk wants me lynched, and he says that I am likely scum with Prohawk. This game is not a game that benefits mafia if they bus each other on day one. Any serious intent of lynching between players is an indication that those two players are likely not scum buddies. In which case his argument falls short. Prohawk is probably town. Bork I am uncertain of yet.

Bork, logical fallacies and ad-hominem, are in fact scumtells or at the very least bad town play as they tend to reach the wrong conclusion. About the ad-hominem, I've been in this site long enough to know that I cannot use that as an argument for scummyness. I mention it in the previous post not as a way to say that Mollie is scum, but rather that Mollie's arguments are not good.

wth bold: how does that even make sense. scum will want anybody lynched who is not on there team especially if that person is fosing them. I am seriously not understanding your logic here.

[pirate mollie]

Mollie, just one question for you that should clear things up. Does a square scum fit into a round hole?

you tell me

[pirate mollie]

I figured you would like my question. Although I have a general starting point for who I view as scum-candidates, not all scum fit nicely into a picturesque box of equals. Therefore, my ideal picture of scum is not the end-all solution to finding scum. You cannot paint yourself as town because you don't fit my definition, and trying to say I am scum because I am going after someone that doesn't fit exactly with my ideal picture is just as ludicrous.

I am not "painting myself as town" I

am

town but keep spinning that record mr. dj man.

[pirate mollie]

Spoiler:

Let me try replying page by page. Should be faster and more concise. I have read through to the end already, so I might reference things to come.

@Pirate Mollie

: The only other game that you used the word Grooming was the Newbie 1286 game. I don't want to read through it, can you give me a summary of where that got you, considering you were town in that game.

i've heard her use grooming countless times before.

Conclusion: Adam has the best case on Mollie, and I agree with him. She is inconsistent. She overreacts to certain accusations and her OMGUS is off the charts.

i like how you added in that Adam (who is most likely town) has a good case on her. maybe you are buddying up to him?

i think guille is making a huge case on mollie because, i think scum were banking on her getting lynched. and they want to keep it that way.

I think so too!!!!

(...)

guille what exactly are you asking about grooming I don't understand your question could you plz clarify.

What benefit would mafia get from lynching Mollie. If she is the closest to figuring out who is scum, then lynching her now is the last thing mafia want done.

I placed the grooming question outside of my reads. Hence it's not part of my reads directly. I do want to know about it though, because this is something that I use as a scum-hunting tool. Although I call it buddying. From what I read from Mollie she considers it as a scum tell. Which is fine. I noticed the times It has been used with me. Although your defenition of grooming is different.

The reason I asked is because I don't have time to read through that game to get to the information I need. Best to ask the source. What I want is how accurate was identifying the grooming in that game to finding scum. Is it an effective marker?

I am cautious of shrimp for this reason, but Mala I can safely say is clear for me. I recognize this play of mala as her town meta. Could she have improved to the point that I would think this way. That's a possibility, but it's not something I am concerned at this point.

The reason I want to understand Mollie with her use of grooming as a marker for scum, is because she has pointed out several instances of grooming towards me and yet she thinks I am scum. By what I understand the grooming marker is reflective of Scum grooming Town. If I am wrong correct me.

K I'm as caught up as I'm gonna get.

Levi is town for stuff, Shrimp's probably town for being just on a totally different page than everyone else, Adam's town for the sincerity of his case but I don't like that case save that I think Mollie's vote on shrimp was bad. Otherwise I think it's confirmation bias in the sense that you're giving explanations of why scum-mollie would be AtEing all over the place -- that's circular logic.

Guille is weird. The conclusions in #462 (Adam's case being good) don't follow from the rest of that post (basically that Mollie does logical fallacies and ad-hominem, neither of which are scumtells).

Mollie's only bad points so far have been her voting patterns -- and that's honestly something I only really want to delve into if we get a scum flip. I'd sooner vote Guille over Mollie, but:

VOTE: ProHawk
#257 makes me wanna dig out that picture where the dude says "joke's on them I was only faking being retarded" because that's pretty much what you're doing here. Everyone you quoted in that post's reactions were some variation on "what the hell are you doing?" Mollie's was just a little blunter than the others -- and you didn't lambaste Mala for having essentially the same exact reaction. His jump off Mollie in #449 is awful especially with the tone of the rest of that post pointing to Mollie being scum and being dodgy about exactly what about Guille is bad to him.

@Mollie -- I'm Code. Why am I answering how you felt about him?

Bork, it's too bad you don't have a clue. But you're town so not much I can do about that.

I don't think that this posts clears him as town. I don't see scum intent however. But he is wrong though. Prohawk wants me lynched, and he says that I am likely scum with Prohawk. This game is not a game that benefits mafia if they bus each other on day one. Any serious intent of lynching between players is an indication that those two players are likely not scum buddies. In which case his argument falls short. Prohawk is probably town. Bork I am uncertain of yet.

Bork, logical fallacies and ad-hominem, are in fact scumtells or at the very least bad town play as they tend to reach the wrong conclusion. About the ad-hominem, I've been in this site long enough to know that I cannot use that as an argument for scummyness. I mention it in the previous post not as a way to say that Mollie is scum, but rather that Mollie's arguments are not good.

wth bold: how does that even make sense. scum will want anybody lynched who is not on there team especially if that person is fosing them. I am seriously not understanding your logic here.

If you flip town, FOS will fall on me. So, If I were scum the last thing I'd do was to lynch you. However, that's WIFOM regardless. We cannot figure out scum intent in who they want to lynch and why.

BTW, please answer my question:

Mollie

: If I were to trust that you are town and right. Other than voting for myself, who should I vote for?

in response to my question okay that clears things up.

I am not sure who you should vote for I don't even know who to vote for lol. I say hawk boy cos given the content of his posts he should know better but I still wonder about borky. shrimp guy is doing exactly what I expect scum to do he is mischaracterising and misrepresenting posts yet he is being given a pass and he is skating.

mischaracterisation and misrepresentation are tools used by scum logical fallacies and ad homs are not, you should probably listen to borky on this for future reference there is a difference.

[pirate mollie]

lol just saw this in post edit:

That, but I think they were asking if scum were allowed to talk during the pre game confirmation stage.

Oh. Yes, they are/were.

based on this post. I also was thinking that the

those of us who are scum

knew that one could use the quicktopic chat thing before the game. this I would rule is their experience told them that. Shrimp guy and I are the ones I know that apparently did not know this was possible as shrimp guy did say that he didn't know. he could have been lying but all in all hawks post about him making a unintentional town tell seems to be understandable. therefore. I feel me, shrimp, adam, hawk. as town. mala could also be possible town and is leaning that way, but i'm worried about a wrong gut feeling with her. that leaves, mantis, possble scum, and guille as well with a possible borkkhfergnin or whatever his name is. but i think borkergin is town.

LOL.

VOTE: leviathan

[pirate mollie]

adam, hawk boy, does that explain why mantis thinks that I am town? when you have played together that much you pretty much have a good grasp of their meta. while mantis and I both have the potential to sneak past each other as scum it is very rare that one of us will give the other a super strong town read and it not be correct.

@Mantis: So is that correct or is it you want to wait until later. I don't recall you commenting on this yet?

no, i don't think i have commented on it.

i'm not going to say much right now. But, i am second guessing (sorry mollie). Just reading through guille's posts - i like them.. they come across as calm and they're clear too.

speaking of, guille. guille you said:

And in one of your latest posts, you say " Adam, levi or guille should be lynched this day. "
I really don't agree. Adam-12 is seriously getting a town read from me, and Guille has done nothing else than make a case on those he finds suspicious.

no, i said: Adam - levi or guille should be..... etc

note the dash, i was speaking to him. but on second thought, i shouldn't be telling people who to lynch i guess. I have adam as town as well.

hmmm. Your original statement had no dash. the original is ambiguous so I can understand any confusion.

yep, i realized my mistake in post 547.


anyway,
UNVOTE: guille

There are a few things that mollie said that i didn't like. the tanking thing and the scum perfume. those do stick out to me.

and mollie, i haven't heard you say those kinds of things before. they can be seen as excuses.

going to take a slow re read of maybe the last 8 pages or so. and maybe do a reset, since guille isn't seeming as scummy to me, as before.

do a site search of my posts yes I have brought up tanking on this site before.

the scum cologne is something that I have noticed cos after a player comes off of a series of scum games they tend to post from a scum motivation i.e. obsessed about indies, special hunting, etc I am thinking of borealis that is why I track on her so hard.

also I am not going to go ballistic on you if you vote me I went ballistic on gib cos he should really know better and his vote started off as a drunk vote.

[pirate mollie]

lol just saw this in post edit:

That, but I think they were asking if scum were allowed to talk during the pre game confirmation stage.

Oh. Yes, they are/were.

based on this post. I also was thinking that the

those of us who are scum

knew that one could use the quicktopic chat thing before the game. this I would rule is their experience told them that. Shrimp guy and I are the ones I know that apparently did not know this was possible as shrimp guy did say that he didn't know. he could have been lying but all in all hawks post about him making a unintentional town tell seems to be understandable. therefore. I feel me, shrimp, adam, hawk. as town. mala could also be possible town and is leaning that way, but i'm worried about a wrong gut feeling with her. that leaves, mantis, possble scum, and guille as well with a possible borkkhfergnin or whatever his name is. but i think borkergin is town.

LOL.






VOTE: leviathan

lol, to you as well. some of you still don't believe i'm town, so why should I continue trying to keep myself out of the US factor when referring to us? =P "those of us who are scum" should I instead have said "those of you who are scum"?

levi if you are town I feel your pain. like for realz.

it looked like a scum slip to me.

[pirate mollie]

adam, hawk boy, does that explain why mantis thinks that I am town? when you have played together that much you pretty much have a good grasp of their meta. while mantis and I both have the potential to sneak past each other as scum it is very rare that one of us will give the other a super strong town read and it not be correct.

@Mantis: So is that correct or is it you want to wait until later. I don't recall you commenting on this yet?

no, i don't think i have commented on it.

i'm not going to say much right now. But, i am second guessing (sorry mollie). Just reading through guille's posts - i like them.. they come across as calm and they're clear too.

speaking of, guille. guille you said:

And in one of your latest posts, you say " Adam, levi or guille should be lynched this day. "
I really don't agree. Adam-12 is seriously getting a town read from me, and Guille has done nothing else than make a case on those he finds suspicious.

no, i said: Adam - levi or guille should be..... etc

note the dash, i was speaking to him. but on second thought, i shouldn't be telling people who to lynch i guess. I have adam as town as well.

hmmm. Your original statement had no dash. the original is ambiguous so I can understand any confusion.

yep, i realized my mistake in post 547.


anyway,
UNVOTE: guille

There are a few things that mollie said that i didn't like. the tanking thing and the scum perfume. those do stick out to me.

and mollie, i haven't heard you say those kinds of things before. they can be seen as excuses.

going to take a slow re read of maybe the last 8 pages or so. and maybe do a reset, since guille isn't seeming as scummy to me, as before.

do a site search of my posts yes I have brought up tanking on this site before.

the scum cologne is something that I have noticed cos after a player comes off of a series of scum games they tend to post from a scum motivation i.e. obsessed about indies, special hunting, etc I am thinking of borealis that is why I track on her so hard.

also I am not going to go ballistic on you if you vote me I went ballistic on gib cos he should really know better and his vote started off as a drunk vote.

k. remember the post where you said that scum might boil down to levi and guille.

and then i agreed with you.. and shouted out to adam that he should vote one of those 2.

later on, i got to thinking that levi and guille were both somewhat inactive at that point, and i retracted my comment about both them being scum, since it seems as though at least one scum member would probably be putting in more effort. in other words, i got thinking that both were somewhat easy lynches.

do you agree with me on this?

erm, I entertained the idea that guille was town a while ago did you not read my posts I was badgering hawk boy about how likely it was that scum would look back on previous games. he said yeah they would but when have we ever seen scum do this.

[pirate mollie]

lol. ok. mollie. =P is calling myself scum a scumslip?

I would say yes.

[pirate mollie]

levi if you are town I feel your pain. like for realz.

it looked like a scum slip to me.

You should be lynched on this premise alone. His grammar is consistent with his overall voice ala

not

a scum-slip.

lol

[pirate mollie]

okay

[pirate mollie]

lol, jesus fucking christ this game.

@ shrimp toddler

your post of accusing mantis and I of cheating is offencive on so many levels and goes beyond the pale of the game. cheating is a serious offence and is bannable on this site or that the very least we would be blacklisted if the mod did not know at least one of us. fortunately majiffy

does

know me and knows neither mantis nor I would cheat.

texting majiffy right now to clear this shit up.

[pirate mollie]

to the other players:

I seriously thought that the people who had signed up for a majiffy game had actually played with majiffy and would know that "mafia shit talk" is an acceptable form of practice amongst some players. I apologise for going overboard on the trolling if you knew the site I came from we do this shit to each other all of the time I do not do it all of the time only in certain situations when I think it might be acceptable and I thought this was one of them!

[pirate mollie]

Funny coming from someone who feels my sarcastic apologies were douchey

:pwned:

[pirate mollie]

thank you!!!

[pirate mollie]

Can I put a post restriction on you? I won't be assed to read your ISO and go through 218 posts.

unvote

Your play from your newbie is quite different. There were some similarities such as word choices, but there's a more of a town oriented how you are going about it this game.

Hey Mollie. Since you are from another site. Mind linking me there to a recent town/scum game?

In this order I want to review: ProHawk, Mantis & Mollie.

I still have that town read on Levi. It's mainly due to me modding his recent scum game and his play is different. He was over caring about making enemies which caused him to try to appease those who suspected him, but he didn't do that here.

Which regarding enemies I have an awesome song in my head
"There's no destiny
When everyone's your enemy"

I sure can how strong is your stomach.

seriously though, some of the sites I play on are pretty rough like super rough.

but my question to you is, why not look at the games I have played on here where I have been both town (titanium, a newbie game) and scum (audio).

[pirate mollie]

Reading other games is looking for meta.

Pray-tell

what negative attention did you intentionally garner?

@Pirate Mollie:

The only other game that you used the word Grooming was the Newbie 1286 game.

I don't want to read through it, can you give me a summary of where that got you, considering you were town in that game.

Conclusion: Adam has the best case on Mollie, and I agree with him.

She is inconsistent.

She overreacts to certain accusations and her OMGUS is off the charts.

See bold. It sure looks like he is trying to use it to support his conclusion of you being inconsistent to me.

@Adam, my statement was in no way linking two scum together, but rather just the opposite - read my equation if you are confused.

wrt my bold: you are spinning this. I drew negative attention at my entrance into the thread which you voted on didn't you?

So, you're saying you purposefully questioned Mala to look bad?

You are saying 2 things at once: 1) You drew bad attention from the beginning of the game, 2) You purposefully drew bad attention once you started getting votes on you

I don't understand this.

I don't believe I have read an answer to this post. I would

really

like to read one.

what I am saying is that I attracted negative attention initially and the reasons were IMO pretty dumb and baseless so I decided to troll and try to knock players off balance in order to get a read and info for my team. does this answer your question.

[pirate mollie]

Pray-tell

what negative attention did you intentionally garner?

wrt my bold: you are spinning this. I drew negative attention at my entrance into the thread which you voted on didn't you?

Spinning is just Mollie's way of saying I don't like what you posted but can't logically refute your point

.

Spoiler: Mollie's Grandiose Entrance

are you thinking levithan thing was trying to extend the mafia talk time malacat?

okay I want to see where this goes

VOTE: levianthan93

also mantis you need to get in here so I can get a read on you!!!

You tell me how I am spinning it, cause i'm not. Her posts themselves did not garner any negative attention until specific scrutiny was brought to them.

RE: Scum looking up another game for an argument. It is more than possible.

wrt the bold: erm no, spinning is trying to misinterpret a motivation and paint it as scummy when it isn't. <---- it looks scummy IMO.

[pirate mollie]

I did.

[pirate mollie]

Don't make me enforce a mid-game post restriction whereby you have to speak in genderless pronouns. I'll do it.

xe and xir

Vote Count

Pirate Mollie (L-3): Shrimp85, Guile
Mantisdreamz(L-4): borkjerfkin
borkjerfkin (L-4): Adam-12
Leviathan (L-4): Pirate Mollie
Malakittens (L-4): ProHawk

Not Voting: leviathan93, Mantisdreamz, Malakittens

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[pirate mollie]

Mollie. I checked Tit and that's your only completed game. The newbie is not finished therefore I can't meta you.
I can handle reading harsh things as long as they aren't directed towards me. So possible link offsite games.

And I don't really want to do the audio >.>

It's only like 3-4 hours of listening.

I have a completed newb game. the one that I am in now I am the SE.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=23357

[pirate mollie]

hey mala what does jmt's stand for?

also your

My town mindset. (:

with link looks supremely scummy cos it is a psychology piece I think the analogy is a shit sandwitch. not calling you shit or anything like it I quite like you! a lot. but what I mean is that you are placing yourself as town in a link that is in the middle of your long post (expects a but it is only chronological order response) and typically when scum do lists the obvscum reads of scum are in the middle. that you are placing yourself in here as town is scummy, classic scum. (this does not apply when you are going down the order of a player list this is why some people will ask ranking of scummiest to town).

I still think levi did a scumslip guys!!!! but I like xir too.

[pirate mollie]

hawk boy's vote switch to guille did look good cos he was actually following through with what he said about scum tending to hide and try to blend in and he was trying to draw guille out. he was being very consistent with that vote switch. I think he knows that I am town

but will go with lynching a player who other players clearly have a problem with rather than have a no-lynch

.

I don't think I like the sound of the bolded, but in truth, I don't actually understand it. What is your meaning here?

This question remains unanswered.

tbh I am not sure how I can be any clearer. lynching is town's greatest tool and it is better to lynch a player that you might think is town but other players have a problem or find scummy than to have a no lynch cos at least with a lynch you will have info. the point is moot since hawk boy has since said that he finds me scummy! I thought he was starting to lean town on me but no I misunderstood.

[pirate mollie]

yeah, it is true that a game that I played as scum just recently ended. mala was the mod. however, i did not know that i could talk in the confirmation stage then either and learned that I could once night 1 happened. I was already in this game when that happened since I joined multiple games.

So it took you all the way until N1 to figure out that you could chat N0?? Why didn't you see that you could chat N0 from the initial posts in the Q/T like Mala said??

because i didn't really read the message all the way through. i'm a lazy motherfucker like that. i just learned that I was mafia and was like ok.

Ok so when exactly during that other game did you realize there was N0 chat?

and why in post #31 did she say that she thought that scum could only talk during the night round when she has experience that this is not true?

adam I am not even going to address your wot you are trolleytracking.

levi plz don't listen to shrimp guy you are not a horrible player

[pirate mollie]

k, it was this one

i know that she hates being mislynched as town. so that could account for her response.

So she is lying about the oppressed-lylo-martyr-logic?

What about being mislynched as scum?

This question is real.

I'd like Mantis' input on this.

i don't know if i mentioned it earlier, but i have never seen mollie say that she was 'tanking' for town, before. actually yea, i did mention it i - i agreed that it looked like it could be an excuse.

the lylo martyr thing, i have seen her say that type of thing before, as town... being a distraction, etc. but just because i've seen her say that as town before, doesn't mean she is.

there have been quite a lot of things that have stood out. One simple thing at the beginning that i originally questioned but kind of ignored, was her statement at the beginning that she had Prohawk as town. also, mollie using prohawk's words that: 'scum usually try to blend and hide', against him. she said that well, since i'm not blending and hiding and you think me to be scum, you're contradicting yourself.

...or something of that nature.

anyway, even if mollie is town, maybe she should be lynched because she's drawn so much attention, that being around at endgame is probably not a good thing to have.

mantis voting me for any other reason than the last one is bullshit and you well know it. I used the term tanking in my newb on here; this seems to have a lot of online gamers on here and I was using language that they could identify with. you just said in a recent game that I am quieter as scum why are you backpedaling on this? and yeah, prohawk was contradicting himself and I was pointing that out how the flying fuck is that scummy? pointing out contradictions is scumhunting.

[pirate mollie]

...does look kind of townish, that post. only thing, is that mollie said the conversation felt right at a time when her, adam and myself were discussing guille. but then she went to say i'm going to trust mantis's read on him.

if it felt right, mollie, why do you have to trust my read on him, and not your own?

cos I am certain of my read.

you think it is Levi and Prohawk? i'll look at their posts again.

tbh I have no clue who it is. the game is pretty much fucked for me at this point and I would consider subbing out but it is 10 days until until the deadline.

[pirate mollie]

mollie, how sure are you that mala is town?

oh I am definitely not anymore in fact she is probably scum who knows how I will flip but sees how retarded the bw on me is but knows she will get some good mileage out of fosing the people who are on it. if she is scum then that was an awesome gambit where she skipped the rvs stage I totally fell for it. I don't know like I said the game is pretty much fucked for me.

[pirate mollie]

Sir Hawk Boy goes up to Adam and punches him in the face. He takes out his sword of wit and intellect and eviscerates Adam and says, "I have avenged you, Mollie". Guille steps on Adam's pinky finger and says, "I got him!" and ironically it is true cos that was the killing blow.

You notice a stench and green slime rising/oozing from Adam. Adam was pondscum.

TOWN WINS! Good job town.

[pirate mollie]

I had something more intricate planned out but with surrounding drama with my own game at tr I was a bit distracted. good job guys.

[pirate mollie]

I feel like I owe everyone an explanation as to why I subbed out.

I was really upset with getting accused of cheating. it doesn't effect mantis the same way cos it has not happened to her before but it has to me twice when I do not cheat. I do not need to. it is a big deal and it can follow you cos there is always some retard who believes it which is what I have had to deal with and it shits up games. the stigma can follow you around and it is hard to shake off.

I subbed out cos I had just typed out a big long fuck you post to mantis and realised that I did not want to post it. friendship means more to me than any stupid game and mantis is my friend. yes, I am an emotional player and the game was simply not fun anymore. I was texting majiffy everyday "god I fucking hate ur game" and was saying mean things about adam, so yeah the game was getting to me. majiffy wanted to give me 24 hours to cool down but I simply wanted out of the game at that point and town needed muscle so I went and got thor.

thor gave me some really good advice once he died and I am really taking it on board.

I apologise if I offended anybody with my behaviour, I am used to playing with a bunch of guys who do nothing but shit talk. trying to reign this in a bit but it isn't always easy.

anyways it was fun to follow along and nurse my petty grudges especially when I do not even remember what they are right now, lol. I have a lot of respect for the players that I briefly played with though.

[pirate mollie]

Well my thoughts:

1) I hate replacements as scum! They ALWAYS screw up my game because they always see the game in a way that is different than the people that have been playing it the whole time.
2) I accept Mollie's apology post.
3) D1 was absolute torture.

Not much else to say really.

Mala's crumbs were posting her "Watchlist" and never mentioning it again. In her second big summary post, she said "I am watching Hawk".

1) then maybe you shouldn't harass people to the point where they want to quit the game. just a thought.
2) I was not apologising to you. I was apologising to my teammates. I think you are a dicknead.
3) yeah, tell me about it. nothing like getting gangbanged by 4 players, accused of cheating, told I was making the game unenjoyable for other players while a dickhead fed all of this shit.

I hope you were being sincere in not wanting to play with me again cos I know I certainly do not want to play with you.

I moderate 2 sites in which I have received rape threats, death threats, had all kinds of nasty rumours started about me and I suspect had someone complain about me at my job via internet when they come from texas and I don't live in that state. mafia is where I go to relax believe it or not.

the first time I ever subbed out was cos I was admitted into the hospital, 2nd time cos I was dealing with my first cheating accusation on a different site behind the scenes when I should have made it public. this is the third time and it was cos you were being an ass.

[pirate mollie]

sorry adam, that came out super harsh.

and no, adam never accused me of cheating.