WoT Mafia, GAME OVER

[Mariyta]

Random vote: Illumina

I agree MM. Shamrock had to be scum, or something not so nice.

[Mariyta]

It wasn't intended as a joke vote. =/ It was the best connection I could make and I don't believe random votes are of any use.

While they may not serve a direct purpose, sometimes certain people will react very strongly to an initial vote (even though it's clearly stated as random). It's a good way to start off determining who may be scum.

[Mariyta]

Vote: Channel Delibird

. This vote may not be as random as it seems.

this sparks my curiousity.

I missed that at first. Good catch. Care to elaborate PJ?

[Mariyta]

Well, I don't know enough about the flavor to speculate on roles, l but I do know that a crosskill night 1 is good.

I would also like to hear PJ elaborate a bit more as most people also seem to be curious. If it's just gut feeling then ignore this. I trust PJ's gut a lot more than any random vote. Random votes are stupid IMO. That being said

Random Vote: Mariyta

That's not a random vote! That's a bandwagon!! (kidding!)

[Mariyta]

I looked back at what I wrote, and I don't think it really says anything about a cop claim. I wasn't even thinking PJ could be a cop, but now that you mention it... well, I guess we'll find out in the future. I was just curious what it meant, and I know I'm not the only one. Someone pointed it out before me (obviously).

[Mariyta]

Unvote, Vote Mr. Flay

Here's hoping Tamuz is right.

[Mariyta]

Wow. Pretty strong reply, Flay. Cranky much?

As for what I was "doing", I was thinking out loud, and hoping for input from others (aside from just snappy comments). So, when you have something useful to input, feel free.

[Mariyta]

First, why is Karn scum?

Second, I can most positively say, I am not scum.

And how do you take the Tamuz poetry?

[Mariyta]

Karn is clearly scum because he said he would "probably" vote someone with a guilty investigation on them. I picked up on that one too.

Not defending Karn's actions, but he said he was waiting for Flay to defend himself.

[Mariyta]

FOS: PJ

If you don't want to have to answer questions about what you mean, don't make statements that you know people are going to ask questions about. Pretty, um, stupid.. if you ask me, which I know you're not.

[Mariyta]

So definately not a cop... watcher? Or fellow scum?

[Mariyta]

So definately not a cop... watcher? Or fellow scum?

This post is most definitely noted.

Ok.... care to explain why?

[Mariyta]

I think I may get why you "noted" that post, so I'm gonna just give you this to look at, so maybe you can understand.

See, Tamuz could be one of four things the way I see it. A mafia (fellow or not) selling you out for a gambit, a cop, a watcher who saw you go to a dead player, or just a townie who thinks you're scum.

The last one is the least likely. The other three are more likely, though with his conviction it seems more like he's the cop or a mafia pulling a gambit. The FOS was just for that. The small chance he could be mafia pulling a gambit (and because last time I saw this restriction they were mafia).

[Mariyta]

I didn't know that was possible.....

Unvote

for now I guess.

[Mariyta]

Serious suspicions on Max, though. Page 5 and he makes a "hi I'm here, what's the vote count?" post. Either he's got zero clue or he's playing dumb, either way he's Not Helpful.

Based on my limited experience with Max, I think it's a bit of both. He seems a bit out of it most of the time. Definately someone to keep an eye on since he can easily fly below the radar with that.

[Mariyta]

Vote Karn1

Seems to be the most likely scum candidate at this point.

[Mariyta]

I'm not quite sure how to take these recent developments. I know someone said something about how it's not possible because it'd be from the first part of the first book, but I'm pretty sure this game takes in all the books, so the roles could be mixed and matched. However, it is quite a claim.... I'm going to leave my vote where it is for now, and watch the developments over the next posts before I do anything drastic (like switching my vote).

And after reading this post over, I have determined that I can be a really,

really

big nerd sometimes.

It's ok. We've all been there. Please, join our support group. It will be alright. You can get through this!

[Mariyta]

Unvote Karn1

until I figure this thing out. I never actually read the books (but I did some reading up on wiki, and I totally want to now, once I finish the Icewind Dale trilogy), so I'll have to do some more research to verify what's being said.

And to echo Axel, I too would like to know why you chose to examine me.

[Mariyta]

Alrighty, after reading everything over many times, I'm going to

Vote:Karn

.

[Mariyta]

There is something I would like to point out.

vote count:
10 Kanr1 - (TSS, Spamwise, Friztler, Bascas, Mr. Flay, Yamahako, Petrojelly, Channeldbird, MMoD, Axelrod)
5 Mr Flay - (Tamuz, Pooky, Karn1, Coron, Broomhead)

2 Mariyta - (Ameliaslay, Karn)

1 Fritztler - (Mrbuddylee)

Karn claimed he cleared me, but his vote remains on me.

[Mariyta]

Ah, yes. I see now. It's a mod mistake. Makes more sense. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Mariyta]

I have no idea why he chose me. I have no connection to him whatsoever. I'm pretty upset that he would put me in such a position. I know there's really no way for me to prove I had no connection to Karn, which really stinks. It would be a stupid move on any scum's part to try to "clear" their partner when there's a good chance they'll be voted off and seen as scum though. (I know it's a pretty poor defense, but he kind of put me in a really crappy position).

[Mariyta]

I'm virtually sure Mariyta is scum, based on yesterday, and the fact that Karn "cleared" her is the icing on the cake. I won't say it's a mortal lock, but only because ChannelDelibird is defending her, and I have him down for the wrong scum group for that.

Perhaps Albert the Great can help clear this up. Albert, who are your scum buddies?

How many people did you just accuse? 3? How about some good reasons for each.

[Mariyta]

That's one thing I have yet to understand about this game here. How on earth is asking for people to elaborate "scummy"? I mean, seriously, how are you supposed to get information when all people do is drop hints about something and refuse to give more info?

And forgive me for trying to be funny. I'll keep my humor to myself from now on....

[Mariyta]

I still don't understand how asking someone who says crap like "it may not be as random as it seems" why, is bad. Are we just supposed to ignore blatant things like that?

[Mariyta]

I still don't understand how asking someone who says crap like "it may not be as random as it seems" why, is bad. Are we just supposed to ignore blatant things like that?

when someone says that, they are either A, town and trying to portray(stupidly, there are better ways) of what they know from the night before. and sometimes not stupidly, it could help

B, scum, trying to pretend they're town and give false hints.

C, it could be someone trying to attract attention for whatever reason.

either way, when you call someone out on it, its never taken well by anyone, A gets mad that you blatantly pointed it out. B tries to pretend that he's a town power role. and C has reasons beyond comprehension.

i think its best to note what they said, but not out loud, then try and determine their stance and use the information another day.

It makes no sense to not point it out, but ok. Thanks for the lessons guys. I learn something new every day.

[Mariyta]

Have we heard anything from Tamuz since yesterday?

[Mariyta]

Yes, it's a very interesting turn of events and I'm not quite sure what to think, especially w/o any input from Tamuz himself. Oh, wise Tamuz, please enlighten us today!

[Mariyta]

I'm going to do a rundown of Tamuz's posts. It's mostly for myself, but I figured I'd "think outloud" to see if anyone else has thoughts or wants to refute my thoughts....

And to not be so obtuse
I offer you a muse
For latter thoughts for you to peruse.

Yamahako wrote:
If we assume that The Forsaken are the Mafia, perhaps the black ajah are a cult and Padan Fain is an SK?


The motivation is plain to see
The black ajah is neither you nor me
rather this man it be.

For he hides in impossibilities
While tossing out incorrect realities
Just wait till you see the words into which he flees.

The man tries to flavor talk
So freely his group can walk
But we must call him, and make him balk.

It seems to me like he's referring to Yamahako here. I know Kain was wrong about Nyneave's ability, and Yamahako hinted at being a doc, but could this be wrong? I realize Yamahako is dead, but could Nyneave be part of a scum group? Or maybe SK?

But mind you please
I am not here to tease
But you & flay put me in similar senses of Unease

Again, seems like a response to Yamahako. Could Flay and Yama have been partners? Or part of a larger group? In Post 57, Channel actually brings up the same things I'm bringing up now.

As for my manner of talk
I wish tommorow I could balk
To say all wanted would rock

Does this mean he'll have to talk the same way, or not talk at all?

Tommorow my voice will be more free
I can explain that done by me
And hopefully expound more on what I see

It seems to clash with this.

This evidence is not solid
But I believe it isn't squalid
Unless the real TM is stolid.

What's TM stand for?

Yes Armlx, not a real cop investigation
In fact a fake one like WMDs in that nation
If it were possible a vote to you would be a strong temptation.

So Tamuz has suspicions about armlx too. I missed that before.

So, from that information, I'd have to guess that Flay and Yama were in cahoots. And he sees Armlx as a possible third....

For now, I will

Vote: Armlx

. Later today, I will try to get a good look at Armlx's posts.

[Mariyta]

[Mariyta]

I'm pretty sure he's voting me based on what Karn did, and I already explained that as well as I could. I had no connection to Karn. I don't know why he chose me.

[Mariyta]

I don't know what that means.

[Mariyta]

Ah. He was using words I've never heard of.

*goes off to look up the meaning of nav*

[Mariyta]

That makes sense. When Tamuz made that post, he didn't know Yamahako was Nyneave. If it wasn't any specific information he had, it was probably just suspicion.

[Mariyta]

I have no idea why he chose me. I have no connection to him whatsoever. I'm pretty upset that he would put me in such a position. I know there's really no way for me to prove I had no connection to Karn, which really stinks. It would be a stupid move on any scum's part to try to "clear" their partner when there's a good chance they'll be voted off and seen as scum though. (I know it's a pretty poor defense, but he kind of put me in a really crappy position).

This is the last time I'm going to try to explain this. It's all I have on this matter. Again,

I don't know why Karn chose me

.

As for armlx, going back through the posts, he was the only one who stood out to me at this point. Sorry if you don't like my vote, but oh well.

[Mariyta]

Uh.... see how what?

[Mariyta]

I will never in a million years understand why "fishing" (aka, trying to gather information) is seen as "evil". Isn't the whole point to try to get information so you can make a conclusion? If someone hints that they have information, isn't the next logical step to try to understand that information, and get clarification?

But whatever, do what you choose.

[Mariyta]

unvote

[Mariyta]

Some information you should try to find out. Other information would benifit the scum more then the town, so therefore any attempt to find out that information (usually by some kind of subtle fishing for it) is scummy.

For example, anything that looks like an attempt to locate the doc or the cop or a mason in a sitation where it's best for them to not come out is an action that, if it works, will help scum more then town, therefore it is scummy.

I don't think that way. If people don't want to be asked what they know, don't hint that you know it. It's just plain stupid to accuse someone of "fishing" when you yourself said you have that information.....

[Mariyta]

I trust MBL here as his general play behavior is like this.

Maritya seems out of place tho

Vote Maritya

What exactly does that mean??

For those of you who may not understand, my vote on armlx was simply because Tamuz expressed a suspicion about him yesterday, and as many others have stated, he caught us scum once, I trusted his judgement.

[Mariyta]

You're clearly reaching, so I'm just gonna let it go.

[Mariyta]

I already addressed the point many times. And I said I wasn't going to address that direct point anymore unless someone gives me a good reason, and I don't see this as a good reason.

[Mariyta]

I addressed my vote on armlx, and Tamuz's vote seems to be based on the whole thing I already addressed many many times. What am I not addressing? I'll gladly do so.

[Mariyta]

For those of you who may not understand, my vote on armlx was simply because Tamuz expressed a suspicion about him yesterday, and as many others have stated, he caught us scum once, I trusted his judgement.

This is the sort of thing scum say when they know they're on the ropes. They're hoping to mollify a pro-town player showing good scumdar and make him more favorably inclined toward them. But consider Tamuz's most recent judgment, which Mariyta has just announced that she trusts:

To comment on the acts of now
And the results of Karn1's bow
And how to treat that Maryita with her Tao

I will vote Maryita
Because I believe we should beat 'e
And end this scroll with a cita.

And since Mariyta has just admitted that Tamz's scumdar is good, she has just admitted that she is scum. Classic, classic scumtell.

This post?

[Mariyta]

For those of you who may not understand, my vote on armlx was simply because Tamuz expressed a suspicion about him yesterday, and as many others have stated, he caught us scum once, I trusted his judgement.

[Mariyta]

I have no idea why he chose me. I have no connection to him whatsoever. I'm pretty upset that he would put me in such a position. I know there's really no way for me to prove I had no connection to Karn, which really stinks. It would be a stupid move on any scum's part to try to "clear" their partner when there's a good chance they'll be voted off and seen as scum though. (I know it's a pretty poor defense, but he kind of put me in a really crappy position).

This is the last time I'm going to try to explain this. It's all I have on this matter. Again,

I don't know why Karn chose me

.

As for armlx, going back through the posts, he was the only one who stood out to me at this point. Sorry if you don't like my vote, but oh well.

[Mariyta]

Am I missing a post somewhere? Please, point it out.

[Mariyta]

Whatever. Until you guys point out what I'm clearly missing, I'm not defending myself. I'm pretty sure I answered all his points/posts/questions/comments/did his homework/made him dinner/whatever. I don't know what you guys want from me, and I can't give you more than what I have, so whatever.

[Mariyta]

also armlx, please come explain why you are not scum. I'll PBPA you. You know I will.

If you do, I may be forced to re-submit my vote for him.

[Mariyta]

Ever stop to think you may be wrong? I've noticed a lot of scum use the "Why isn't so and so lynched yet?" complaint quite often....

[Mariyta]

Mariyta, your vote on armlx is poorly founded, according to your statements. You're doing it because Tamuz pointed at him, and because Tamuz successfully pointed at another scum. But Tamuz has told us he got the Flay info from an unnamed source, and that he doesn't have any more such info. I think it's fair to infer his suspicion of armlx is based on his reading of armlx's scant postings.

I'm not saying you're wrong to vote armlx, but the way you did it made you look fishy--like you were shirking responsibility for your vote and relying too heavily on Tamuz. And you haven't amended your statements in light of current facts.

I know it wasn't a great reason, but after looking stuff over, it was the only reason I could find to vote someone. /shrug I did unvote, and haven't revoted, so....

People jumped on me based on that vote. I said when I voted that it was the best I could come up w/ at the time. I'm wary of the people pushing the bandwagon (not necessarily those wagonning though).

Vote: TSS

because I can.

[Mariyta]

...

[Mariyta]

Bah!

I'm Mazrim Taim. I serve the Dragon Reborn. I'm a vigilante.

[Mariyta]

I didn't target anyone the first night. I took out Flay last night.

[Mariyta]

I didn't kill anyone Night 1 because I didn't think it was necessary. I didn't have any information on anyone and my chances of actually hitting someone who was scum were not great enough to kill. After the first night, I figured there was at least one killing group, a vig (maybe 2?), and 2 SKs or another killing group. I was expecting way more kills last night. I don't know why there wasn't.

I don't know the books well enough, so I can't explain why Taim would be or wouldn't be a vig. I was told I used to be a false dragon, but was torn down by the Aes Sidas(?) and now I serve the Dragon reborn (who is Rand, from what I've read on Wiki).

[Mariyta]

I chose Flay because I figured it'd be better safe than sorry, and I didn't see a better play.

@MM (and pretty much everyone): I realize vig seems unbelievable. I realized that when I read the piece on Wiki about him. It seemed more like an SK role or leader of a scum group, but I got vig. I don't quite understand why.