WoT Mafia, GAME OVER

[Bascas]

oh, ok. I see. That would be hard.

[broomhead]

that was my only guess as to why he hasn't posted yet

[Yosarian2]

Hmmm...yesterday, though, he gave the impression he'd be able to talk freely today, though. Still, if there is some annoying scum role that can give people freaky posting restrictions, I guess he wouldn't have known if he would be targeted again today or not.

[Mariyta]

I'm going to do a rundown of Tamuz's posts. It's mostly for myself, but I figured I'd "think outloud" to see if anyone else has thoughts or wants to refute my thoughts....

And to not be so obtuse
I offer you a muse
For latter thoughts for you to peruse.

Yamahako wrote:
If we assume that The Forsaken are the Mafia, perhaps the black ajah are a cult and Padan Fain is an SK?


The motivation is plain to see
The black ajah is neither you nor me
rather this man it be.

For he hides in impossibilities
While tossing out incorrect realities
Just wait till you see the words into which he flees.

The man tries to flavor talk
So freely his group can walk
But we must call him, and make him balk.

It seems to me like he's referring to Yamahako here. I know Kain was wrong about Nyneave's ability, and Yamahako hinted at being a doc, but could this be wrong? I realize Yamahako is dead, but could Nyneave be part of a scum group? Or maybe SK?

But mind you please
I am not here to tease
But you & flay put me in similar senses of Unease

Again, seems like a response to Yamahako. Could Flay and Yama have been partners? Or part of a larger group? In Post 57, Channel actually brings up the same things I'm bringing up now.

As for my manner of talk
I wish tommorow I could balk
To say all wanted would rock

Does this mean he'll have to talk the same way, or not talk at all?

Tommorow my voice will be more free
I can explain that done by me
And hopefully expound more on what I see

It seems to clash with this.

This evidence is not solid
But I believe it isn't squalid
Unless the real TM is stolid.

What's TM stand for?

Yes Armlx, not a real cop investigation
In fact a fake one like WMDs in that nation
If it were possible a vote to you would be a strong temptation.

So Tamuz has suspicions about armlx too. I missed that before.

So, from that information, I'd have to guess that Flay and Yama were in cahoots. And he sees Armlx as a possible third....

For now, I will

Vote: Armlx

. Later today, I will try to get a good look at Armlx's posts.

[Tamuz]

My lack of word
Has been caused by something quite obsurd
The access to my internet became rather blurred

Now my actions of yesterday
When concerning Mr. Flay
I am free-er to talk about today

Being who I am
My actions had some pre-plan
given by the mod, oh great Satan

I must have lead a wagon
In my service to the great Dragon
But for now I'm as good as a drunk without a flagon.

Why I choose to wagon Flay
That I would rather not tell today
And no more information from that source in my hand does stay

I know you think I am under control
But that is no more true than I have the bowl
But know I am now in free control of my soul

The one thing I had to do
Was lead that bandwagon through
And all my actions are true blue

To comment on the acts of now
And the results of Karn1's bow
And how to treat that Maryita with her Tao

I will

vote Maryita

Because I believe we should beat 'e
And end this scroll with a cita.

[Mariyta]

[ChannelDelibird]

*snip*

So if I understand you correctly, the person playing Rand Al'Thor forced you to vote for Flay? Interesting, but given your record so far I'll follow you on this.

Vote: Mariyta

[Mariyta]

I'm pretty sure he's voting me based on what Karn did, and I already explained that as well as I could. I had no connection to Karn. I don't know why he chose me.

[Tamuz]

The dragon has not made me do anything
Rather it isi n his name I sing
Now hear me well and stop your fishing

Mariyta, you are the best lead I have
There is little I can to to off stave
The actions are in word, and the accutions with nav.

[Mariyta]

I don't know what that means.

[ChannelDelibird]

I think he's saying the vote is merely based on what you've said. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up Tamuz, I will therefore

unvote

based on the reasons I gave at the start of the Day.

[Mariyta]

Ah. He was using words I've never heard of.

*goes off to look up the meaning of nav*

[Yosarian2]

I'm going to do a rundown of Tamuz's posts. It's mostly for myself, but I figured I'd "think outloud" to see if anyone else has thoughts or wants to refute my thoughts....

And to not be so obtuse
I offer you a muse
For latter thoughts for you to peruse.

Yamahako wrote:
If we assume that The Forsaken are the Mafia, perhaps the black ajah are a cult and Padan Fain is an SK?


The motivation is plain to see
The black ajah is neither you nor me
rather this man it be.

For he hides in impossibilities
While tossing out incorrect realities
Just wait till you see the words into which he flees.

The man tries to flavor talk
So freely his group can walk
But we must call him, and make him balk.

It seems to me like he's referring to Yamahako here. I know Kain was wrong about Nyneave's ability, and Yamahako hinted at being a doc, but could this be wrong? I realize Yamahako is dead, but could Nyneave be part of a scum group? Or maybe SK?

First of all, there is absolutly no way Nyneave could be a bad guy. Annoying, sure, but certanly not evil. There's about 10 major character good guys in the books (depening on how you count them) who are all friends and who are all fighting against the dark lord, and she's one of them. Whichever of those people are roles in the game, they've got to be good guys. Of course, if the mod planned well, he could have left some of those roles names for safe claims for the scum to use.

It sounds like Tamuz was suspicious of Yamahako because of Yamahako's illogical specualations about the black ajah. I'm still not entirely sure if Tamuz's attack on Mr. Flay was based on role information or on some scum tell in the thread, the posts were all a little vauge. However, if he did have some kind of role-based information about Flay, then he probably did not have information about anyone else, so everything else was probably just his own personal thoughts.

[Mariyta]

That makes sense. When Tamuz made that post, he didn't know Yamahako was Nyneave. If it wasn't any specific information he had, it was probably just suspicion.

[Yosarian2]

Why I choose to wagon Flay
That I would rather not tell today
And no more information from that source in my hand does stay

Ok. That's fine, we don't need to know anything else.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway,

vote:Mariyta

. Like I said, her actions yesterday with Karn look suspicious, and I also don't like the logic involved in her vote for armlx above.

[MrBuddyLee]

I want to put something out there in case I get ganked one of these nights:

Not this past night but the night before, someone tried to put a collar around my neck but I broke free. I suspected yesterday that Tamuz had been a victim of some kind of mind-control collar, but I guess that wasn't the case. If anyone else had the collar incident happen to them, we might want them to speak up now.

[Mariyta]

I have no idea why he chose me. I have no connection to him whatsoever. I'm pretty upset that he would put me in such a position. I know there's really no way for me to prove I had no connection to Karn, which really stinks. It would be a stupid move on any scum's part to try to "clear" their partner when there's a good chance they'll be voted off and seen as scum though. (I know it's a pretty poor defense, but he kind of put me in a really crappy position).

This is the last time I'm going to try to explain this. It's all I have on this matter. Again,

I don't know why Karn chose me

.

As for armlx, going back through the posts, he was the only one who stood out to me at this point. Sorry if you don't like my vote, but oh well.

[Axelrod]

I want to put something out there in case I get ganked one of these nights:

Not this past night but the night before, someone tried to put a collar around my neck but I broke free. I suspected yesterday that Tamuz had been a victim of some kind of mind-control collar, but I guess that wasn't the case. If anyone else had the collar incident happen to them, we might want them to speak up now.

I am somewhat confused by this post. Night 1 (i.e. the

same

Night Tamuz would have theoretically been affected) someone tried to put a collar on you but you "broke free" (how nice for you). So naturally you think that Tamuz is being controlled because...you think the mad collar person can put 2 collars on different people every Night? You think after failing on you he got to try someone else? You think someone might have been collared this night, but also broke free? If the person didn't break free, do you think they are going to be able to tell us they have a collar on right now?

What makes today a better time to have told us this than yesterday?

Basically you have told us that someone is out there trying to put collars on people (that would be Seashan, right? And the collars presumably would prevent use of the power and/or give someone control over another player? Am I remembering the storyline corrently). This is potentially useful information, but I really don't understand your timing here. Would the Seashan even be a scum group in this game ( Im speaking flavorwise--remember, haven't picked up the book in 10 years. Last I recall, they weren't too nice, but not necessarily "evil" either. And there was some hint that Mat might end up married to the queen or something like that. Anything more up to date on them? Yes, I realize I could look this stuff up, but I really don't feel like it. ) I guess I'm wondering if this could be the actions of a

townie

role-blocker/vote-controller, etc.?

Thoughts on that?

On the other hand, I have played games where (as mafia) we pretended to have been attacked (or role-blocked, etc.) on Night 1 to try and make ourselves look better subsequent Nights.

[SpamWise]

Vote: ChannelDelibird

Fairly sure he's scum.

[broomhead]

uhh, reasons?

[MrBuddyLee]

I am somewhat confused by this post. Night 1 (i.e. the

same

Night Tamuz would have theoretically been affected) someone tried to put a collar on you but you "broke free" (how nice for you). So naturally you think that Tamuz is being controlled because...you think the mad collar person can put 2 collars on different people every Night? You think after failing on you he got to try someone else? You think someone might have been collared this night, but also broke free? If the person didn't break free, do you think they are going to be able to tell us they have a collar on right now?

What makes today a better time to have told us this than yesterday?

Basically you have told us that someone is out there trying to put collars on people (that would be Seashan, right? And the collars presumably would prevent use of the power and/or give someone control over another player? Am I remembering the storyline corrently). This is potentially useful information, but I really don't understand your timing here.

Your excessive "skepticism" is noted.

I hinted at the possibility of mind control day one. I figured there could be more than one collar-slapper-onner, yeah, wasn't sure. And yes, they failed to get it around my neck. I brought it up today because I thought there was a chance someone else would confirm a similar event. And because if I get ganked eventually, at least you'll know something about this phenomenon and know who got hit with it N1. If no one pipes up, there may be someone wearing a collar in our midst, which is important to consider. If it happens to me again and I actually get collared, I'll probably be hungry from the exertion of fighting the attacker.

[petroleumjelly]

Hmm, interesting time to claim such information. I would also suspect that the Seanchan are the one's trying to collar people, if in fact that information is true. Although I originally thought if there was a cult, it would probably be the Children of the Light, I suppose it is possible that there is a Seanchan cult, who can only collar specific players (which is interesting, because in the books, we know that the Seanchan can even collar Forsaken, as they channel).

Also, I seriously doubt that there are two seperate Seanchan which would try to slip collars on to people: there may be a group that collectively chooses one target each night, however.

Worthy of note is the fact that both Mr. Flay (Mesaana) and Karn1 (Demandred) were of the Forsaken. I should probably read back and see if anybody showed hesitance towards voting either or both of these two players.

Also, this statement by Flay is interesting in retrospect:

Wow. Good catch on Karn's random vote, PJ.

Anyone not voting for him at this point will be highly suspect if he comes up scum after all of this

. Ordinarily I wouldn't keep my vote on a claimed cop, but a claimed cop who votes for his night investigation is easy-peasy.

... but I'm not good enough at playing the WIFOM game in order to determine as to whether he was telling his partner(s) "hey, you dorks, vote for Karn1" or if his partner(s) were already

on

Karn1 and was planning on casting suspicion on those who did not vote for him afterwards.

[ChannelDelibird]

Vote: ChannelDelibird

Fairly sure he's scum.

If you could actually give some reasons behind that...

[petroleumjelly]

On the subject of mind control (which MrBuddyLee has now brought up), consider the fact that Mr. Flay was of the Forsaken, and then consider this statement he made:

If I had to guess, I'd say one of the Forsaken/Black Ajah could use Compulsion to mind-control someone.

And then this quote from Albert the Great:

In The Great Hunt (the second book), there is an Aes Sedai that has a specialty of controlling and manipulating what her victims do with the One Power. She attempts to use this on Rand in order to find out what he erases on the dungeon wall in Fal Dara. I suspect that she is of the Black Ajah (I don't remember from when I read the series before). It is a possibility though.

At the moment, I am seeing that post an opportunity to extrapolate possible misinformation via Mr. Flay.

FoS: Albert the Great

.

After a re-read, people who I can easily see as being connected with Karn1 and Mr. Flay:
-MrBuddyLee
-Albert the Great
-Bacde (very weak case, however, since he only has

one post

)

Of the three, I would most like to poke a little at MBL:

Here are his posts:

After Tamuz used poetic verse to ‘incriminate’ Flay:

Can we be sure he has info? Perhaps Tamuz just found Mr. Flay's posting style scummy.

Yeah, I'm thinking mind control here. Definitely don't lynch Flay just yet.

And after a case was made against Karn1 and he claimed, we have:

Killing a claimed cop isn't an action to be taken lightly. Everyone should read the history and state their specific reasons for offing him before placing a vote. Or unvoting him, for that matter.

Why are there still votes on Flay?

1.) Karn1’s random vote was on Mariyta (who he has now claimed an innocent investigation on, making this, if true, a very badly placed random vote)

Karn, I'd like to hear your explanation for that random vote.

About here, I think MBL is starting to see that Karn1 is slowly going through the process of spontaneous combustion…

meh, I think it's dicey to lynch a claimed confirmable power role. I find karn's random vote bizarre because you'd think a cop wouldn't do that to someone he cleared. can't make up my mind on that situation, so i'm erring on the side of caution and asking questions.

I weighed in on both big wagons today, asked good questions and I'm not sure who I want to vote for yet.

It should probably go on someone who's still on Flay

, because I think the "evidence" against Flay has been deemed way questionable if not outright false.

Fancy that: MBL doesn’t like either of the two biggest wagons in the game: Mr. Flay (Forsaken) or Karn1 (Forsaken). Instead, he would rather vote for somebody who is voting for Mr. Flay.

Also of note:

If the Seanchan are indeed a cult and did indeed target MBL, the fact that he was not recruited makes perfect sense: cults usually fail when they try to recruit mafia members.

Further, if MBL "broke free" from this collar, how could he come to the conclusion of "mind control"? This, coupled with the fact that MBL has chosen such an odd time to give the town this information, I believe there is enough on the table to warrant a:

Vote: MrBuddyLee

.