WoT Mafia, GAME OVER

[SpamWise]

Vote: ChannelDelibird

Fairly sure he's scum.

If you could actually give some reasons behind that...

I'd rather eat nachos.

[read of MBL's posts pending]

[ChannelDelibird]

Vote: ChannelDelibird

Fairly sure he's scum.

If you could actually give some reasons behind that...

I'd rather eat nachos.

[read of MBL's posts pending]

Wouldn't we all.

FoS: SpamWise

Interesting points on MBL. He does seem erratic and distrusting of the Flay wagon, but I've read a couple of games he was/is in and it seems to me that he's naturally cautious. I'm not 100% convinced but I'd like to get some explanation on your actions, MBL.

Vote: MrBuddyLee

[MrBuddyLee]

What would you like to know? I've explained much of what I've done already but I'll be happy to give it another go.

PJ, first of all, why I spoke out against the FlayWagon--I read from Tamuz's posts that he was being forced to vote Flay all day. I would think that alone would be a good reason to halt the wagon that started because of Tamuz's words in the first place. That plus my knowledge of a collar-wielding madman added up to wariness. Entirely logical, no?

Second, if someone tried to snap a collar around your neck, what would your first thought be? Mine was that someone had tried to bring me into a cult and failed, and my second thought was that maybe there was a role with mind control powers over one person a day based on the application of a collar. I read on the web and found examples of similar concepts in the WoT series and figured it was a reasonable explanation for the strange occurrence.

Third, if you check out Mormon II mini, you'll see that I'm aware that cult can't recruit scum. If I was scum, I wouldn't have announced this result. My first thought was that there's a % chance of failure in the control.

Fourth, the KarnWagon? I'm hesitant to kill claimed power roles this early if they can be confirmed or if the evidence is shaky. I did note your observation about Karn's random vote on Mariyta and reread his post there, and I thought it at least plausible that if he was a cop that he was using humor to indicate that Mariyta was his innocent result for the night.

Random votes are stupid IMO. That being said

Random Vote: Mariyta

So after he died, if he turned up cop we might be able to look back and say "oh yeah, he said a vote on Mariyta was stupid, she must have been his innocent result for the night." Didn't turn out that way though.

I brought up this info now because it's something you all know now about this game that you didn't before I spoke up, and I didn't see anyone else coming forward. If there's a cult, now you know. You wouldn't know about it now or potentially any time soon if I had held the info and gotten nightkilled.

And you're voting me. I find it curious that some of you'd choose to try to start a bandwagon on the bearer of info rather than question them first. Awfully cavalier...

[MrBuddyLee]

Oh, PJ, and this was a sarcastic dig at Tamuz for his overzealous pursuit of me in another game:

Can we be sure he has info? Perhaps Tamuz just found Mr. Flay's posting style scummy.

As Spamwise noted:

Considering he'd only posted once, I doubt that.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm reasonably happy with the explanation you've given.

Unvote

The problem with your claim of being attacked by a collarwielding maniac is that it's not confirmable until it fails again, the chances of which I would imagine being much slimmer than it succeeding otherwise the role would be useless. But I'm not a fan of using probability as damning evidence, because as long as there's a 1% chance the circumstances are still possible.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

MBL, I did some research on Wikipedia about collars in WoT and I may have found why you broke free:

["Wikipedia"]The Seanchan ("SHAN-chen") are the descendants of Artur Hawkwing and the armies he sent across the Aryth Ocean. The Seanchan have returned after hundreds of years to reclaim the land that was stolen by 'oathbreakers,' rulers who claimed lands after Artur Hawkwing died. The Seanchan believe that any women who can channel (marath'damane - "those who must be leashed") are dangerous and must be captured and controlled. Damane, "leashed ones," are controlled by using a ter'angreal called an a'dam, a silver collar and silver bracelet connected by a leash. The a'dam gives the sul'dam ("leash holder") the ability to direct the damane's channeling as well as deal reward or punishment. Damane are treated as animals and property, a weapon in the hands of their sul'dam, to be used and abused as the sul'dam sees fit; Seanchan are quite good at propaganda and psychological subversion, and those in their service tend to embrace their slavery. The Seanchan as a whole remain unaware that sul'dam are women who can channel but do not have the spark.[/quote]

So if the Seanchan do exist as a cult, they can probably only recruit female channellers.

[Yosarian2]

I want to put something out there in case I get ganked one of these nights:

Not this past night but the night before, someone tried to put a collar around my neck but I broke free. I suspected yesterday that Tamuz had been a victim of some kind of mind-control collar, but I guess that wasn't the case. If anyone else had the collar incident happen to them, we might want them to speak up now.

Ok...so the Seashan are going around putting collars on people. I'd assume that would only work if the person is a woman who has the one power, but if she does, it would give them pretty much complete control over her.

I'm pretty sure the Seashan would be a bad guy group, and...perhaps they have a chance to kill and a chance to recruit?

The person "killed by the one power" night one could have been a Seashan victem.

[Yosarian2]

Oh, and it probably goes without saying that if anyone is a woman who can channel (an Aes Sedi, a wise one, ect ect.) it's probably best if you don't claim at all if there are Seashan running around.

[Bascas]

On the subject of mind control (which MrBuddyLee has now brought up), consider the fact that Mr. Flay was of the Forsaken, and then consider this statement he made:

If I had to guess, I'd say one of the Forsaken/Black Ajah could use Compulsion to mind-control someone.

And then this quote from Albert the Great:

In The Great Hunt (the second book), there is an Aes Sedai that has a specialty of controlling and manipulating what her victims do with the One Power. She attempts to use this on Rand in order to find out what he erases on the dungeon wall in Fal Dara. I suspect that she is of the Black Ajah (I don't remember from when I read the series before). It is a possibility though.

At the moment, I am seeing that post an opportunity to extrapolate possible misinformation via Mr. Flay.

FoS: Albert the Great

.

they may have just agreed on something from the book that could create a possibility, though I agree, it doesn't look good to agree with scum.

mFoS: Albert the Great

right now I'm more interested in analyzing Tamuz's post.

He votes Mariyta, but see how th

[Mariyta]

Uh.... see how what?

[Bascas]

e first post of his today goes? With Flay he sounded much more certain, with Mariyta it seems like he's trying to get her out of the way because she fishes. PJ has already pinned her down as an evil fisher. He says something about getting rid of her.. Tao? He doesn't want people to know his role. a few posts down he says 'stop your fishing'. He knows, after Flay being scum and him pinning him as scum in the first post that he can get a bandwagon on anyone.

FoS: Mariyta

simply because he was right before, but something tells me he doesn't have the same proff as he did with Flay.

[Bascas]

SFDP:

whoa, did my post get interrupted?

-Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:49 pm

-Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:09 pm


odd

[Mariyta]

I will never in a million years understand why "fishing" (aka, trying to gather information) is seen as "evil". Isn't the whole point to try to get information so you can make a conclusion? If someone hints that they have information, isn't the next logical step to try to understand that information, and get clarification?

But whatever, do what you choose.

[Bascas]

I agree with you, kind of. As in I can see both sides. No one (unless by ability) is to truly know if you were mafia fishing or town gathering resources before you place your vote. I believe, however, Tamuz saw it as fishing.

[Gleeman]

Vote count.
4 Mariyta - (Machmaf, Tamuz, Yosarian, TSS)
1 Armlx - (Mariyta)
1 Channeldbird - (Spamwise)
1 Mrbuddylee - (Petrojelly)

[Yosarian2]

*is staggered* Yos, are you suggestiong there's a group with the ability to shift the town-scum balance by

three

nightly?

If they can only recruit women with the one power, then that's probably a fairly small fraction of the town. If, hypothetically speaking, 1/3 of the town is women with the one power, that's a sucessfull recruitment one out of three nights at best, if there's no role-blocks or anything, and there's no way they could ever get a majority with just that power. So if the Senchen are recruiting like that, they would have to also have some kind of killing power as well, although perhaps not the ability to kill every night.

Of course, the collaring thing might be something else other then actual recruitment; perhaps they're "searching" for a woman with the one power and get some extra (probably nasty for the town) ability when they find one, or perhaps it's some kind of vote manipulation/role manipulation. And, of course, that's all assuming MrBuddyLee is telling the truth.

[SpamWise]

unvote

Vote: Mariyta

FoS:ChannelDelibird

Gut instincts say MBL is telling truth. The timing of his comments is odd however.

[Mariyta]

unvote

[Yosarian2]

I will never in a million years understand why "fishing" (aka, trying to gather information) is seen as "evil". Isn't the whole point to try to get information so you can make a conclusion? If someone hints that they have information, isn't the next logical step to try to understand that information, and get clarification?

But whatever, do what you choose.

Some information you should try to find out. Other information would benifit the scum more then the town, so therefore any attempt to find out that information (usually by some kind of subtle fishing for it) is scummy.

For example, anything that looks like an attempt to locate the doc or the cop or a mason in a sitation where it's best for them to not come out is an action that, if it works, will help scum more then town, therefore it is scummy.

[Mariyta]

Some information you should try to find out. Other information would benifit the scum more then the town, so therefore any attempt to find out that information (usually by some kind of subtle fishing for it) is scummy.

For example, anything that looks like an attempt to locate the doc or the cop or a mason in a sitation where it's best for them to not come out is an action that, if it works, will help scum more then town, therefore it is scummy.

I don't think that way. If people don't want to be asked what they know, don't hint that you know it. It's just plain stupid to accuse someone of "fishing" when you yourself said you have that information.....

[MrBuddyLee]

PJ, back to your post from a while back, I know it looks unusual in retrospect that I didn't vote Karn and encouraged people not to lynch Flay. I can only ask that you view my actions based on information available at the time. I think those actions were reasonable if not correct.

Pooky, you've been awfully quiet this game, day one you voted and that's about it. How are we supposed to say you're pro-town with that kind of behavior? Four other people besides Pooky stayed on the FlayWagon to the end of day one even though it was evident there might be something weird about it. Regardless of how it turned out, their decisions are notable.

Coron doesn't typically move his vote a lot, so I dunno about him.
Karn1, well that made sense for him to stay there.
Tamuz says he didn't have a choice.
Broomhead, this twilight post made me curious about you, considering you were still on the flaywagon:

thats it, so tell us karn, are you scum or did we mess up?

Not sure you're evil, but something there made me wary. Something to note for later days.

[armlx]

I trust MBL here as his general play behavior is like this.

Maritya seems out of place tho

Vote Maritya

[Mariyta]

I trust MBL here as his general play behavior is like this.

Maritya seems out of place tho

Vote Maritya

What exactly does that mean??

For those of you who may not understand, my vote on armlx was simply because Tamuz expressed a suspicion about him yesterday, and as many others have stated, he caught us scum once, I trusted his judgement.

[Axelrod]

I'm going to accept what MBL is saying for now.

I might be willing to vote Mariyta. I was suspicious of her yesterday, but the person I really, really want to vote is Armlx. And right now they are voting for each other.

I think I mentioned before, but this post:

Thats what I'm talking about

Vote Mr. Flay

Is, literally, the exact same thing I said once in a game where I was scum and my scumbuddy had been outed by a Cop. In that game, I regretted the post immediately after I made it because I

knew

it sounded too forced and "happy" to be a genuine sentiment. Doesn't seem genuine to me now either.

And the rest of his posts don't look any better. Mostly one-liners. In and out very quickly. Mostly agreeing or parroting stuff other people have already said.

Vote: Armlx

[Mariyta]

You're clearly reaching, so I'm just gonna let it go.