Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

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Vote: Furcolow

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Unvote, vote: Surye

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SUFFER NOT THE LURKER TO LIVE.

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SUFFER NOT THE LURKER TO LIVE.

Wait, you're calling me a lurker? Really?

CONFESS.

(Also: no, I'm not.)

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Unvote, vote: furcolow

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YARR!

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CONFESS

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Why isn't Furcolow dead yet?

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Are you bussing Surye, Zindykins?

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Are you bussing Surye, Zindykins?

Why don't you just vote him and find out, Cessybuns?

So you confess to being scum?

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I don't find the case against Surye particularly convincing and the Furcolowwagon has potential.

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I don't find the case against Surye particularly convincing and the Furcolowwagon has potential.

Why'd you vote Surye in your second post? It was kinda weird, to be honest.

Bandwagonning!

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You're not listed as being on the furcwagon, Amrun.

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Hint: I'm town.

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ZZZZZZ

It's a good day for Furcolow to die.

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Actually, I'm pretty sure most of the actual moves are done before you open the parachute. So he'd have a okay chance at winning the competition. He'd crash to an untimely death afterwards, but he could still win.

Yeah, but odds are he'll be too distracted worrying about his own death.

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you're not voting me

^scum

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^that smiley is a scum tell

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Why isn't Furcolow dead yet?

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Hey hey, let's be consistent here, Yos. Furcolow claimed VT and must die.

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Whatever. My post quality hasn't changed, just my quantity.

Voting for vez over Furcolow counts a marked decrease in quality, kiddo.

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ToonFighter (1) - (Amrun)
Zindaras (2) - (Albert B. Rampage, Furcolow)
vezokpiraka (2) - (GummyBear, DeathNote)
SensFan (1) - (Primate)
AGar (1) - (Medicated Lain)
creampuffeater (1) - (HezLucky)
DeathNote (1) - (Porochaz)

All of these votes are pointless.

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Unvote, vote: Surye

Why isn't Surye dead yet?

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I fail to see the problem.

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Dude's a wily cat.

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I don't have a read on MBL. Yos' inconsistency regarding how he handled the vezokclaim and the furcolowclaim suggests scum to me.

Amrun, I see MBL's points as completely valid. There's nothing wrong with a healthy dose of paranoia.

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That said, we should totes lynch Surye.

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Way to pick the Day after the Rapture, MoS.

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MoS is an idiot who requires people to unvote.

Checking Primate's iso, Primate did unvote the first time he voted Surye though.

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Yes.

=================[]
[]=================

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CES: Can you explain why you went from the Furcolow wagon over to the Surve wagon, while at the same time attacking me for not being on the Furcolow wagon?

Town tell; inconsistent application of principles: you went after vezok hard for his VT claim, then went "meh, whatever" when Furcolow claimed VT.

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P.S. ®_©, shut up.

P.P.S.

Vote: ToonFighter

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That's horrid, Yosarian.

You're basically going:
1) take a group of people
2) state that there's bound to be scum in there without explanation, relying on the size of the group to make your statement seem sufficiently plausible
3) call out several members of the group as being likely town
4) ignore the fact that it undermines that this undermines 2)
5) conclude that the other members of the group are somehow now more likely to be scum

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Yosarian, I don't particularly agree that pushing Surye early is a scum tell, but I wouldn't've had a problem with you going "He pushed Surye early. Vote: Kison" (although I do question whether it is significant enough to merit a vote.) My problem lies with your appeal to a seductive form of fallacious reasoning.

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Why does person A get lynched on day 1 instead of person B, when the evidence all around either for or against both of them are minimal? Quite often, person A gets lynched instead of person B BECAUSE THE SCUM DECIDE TO LYNCH HIM, and they are able to tilt the balance of the scale that way. You're looking at it all backwards; it's not that scum KNOW what wagon is going to be successful, it's that the wagon the scum supports is much more likely to BECOME successful, because the scum are supporting it.

Accepting for a moment your premise that a scum voting block exists, I'm not seeing anything here that would point to early voters specifically being more likely to be scum. Wouldn't scum voting blocks prefer lynches on non-buddies to be pushed by townies?

I'm probably a little more paranoid about CES right now then usual, considering he just completly fooled me in the Mafia with the Hydras game, but I'm not getting the happy townie-CES vibes from his play day 1 I normally get. I don't care if he makes short posts and all that meta stuff, but the way he voted, and the timing, is all around iffy. I guess I kind of like his "Furcolow self voting is a town tell" argument (I don't agree with it, but it feels like something town-CES might think), but it's weird the way he attacked me for not voting Furcolow at the same time he was getting off the Furcolow wagon. His "consistency" justification is really weak; what happened in the Furcolow wagon was completly different from what Vez did at the start of the day. Especally if he thought he got a town tell from Furcolow, I think it's bizzare he'd expect me to join the wagon just because of the vanilla claim

"normally"? We've played 2 games since my return and I've only been town in one of them. I didn't attack you for not voting Furcolow, I attacked you for having a radically different opinion on vez' and Frank's claim. Frank doesn't have to be scum for that to be scummy.

P.S. that's not the town tell.

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In that case, he didn't want you to vote Furry, he just wanted to see how you'd react to the second vanilla claim.

I totally did want him to vote Furry at the time, just fyi.

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Mod

, VC PLEASE.

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^scum

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#1057 is just BSing about ABR's motives. Dude's an inscrutable fool.

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No. Never met.

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I'm going to not be reading your pbpa because I feel that's the easiest way for me to not care about the fact that a pbpa dealing with 40 pages is somehow a smart thing to do.

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NBA sucks.

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Yessir. Welcome to one of my very top scumtells. Yosarian2 uses something similar, and he happens to be in this game. Basically, if your scumreads make no sense to me, then you are not viewing teh game from teh same perspective that I am, and therefore have an extremely high probability of being scum.

I'm fairly sure most people will come at a game from a different perspective simply by virtue of being sufficiently different people. It is a weak scum tell (although I prefer applying the converse as a town tell) and using the phrase "extremely high probability of being scum" is way out there.

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CES:
#492: Why you answer someone else’s question broski? Defense?
#638: Wait hold on, did you ever say that Vezo should die tho? Did you vote him?

Re: 452, that doesn't count as answering someone else's question by a long shot. I'd be interested to know how exactly you imagine I was defending vezok by saying "Hint: I'm town."
Re: 638, I didn't. I fail to see the problem.

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®_© would make a good vig target.

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Ugh, are you pretending to be female again? Man, you are taking not being considered an alpha male hard.

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Some people aren't used to mathematical ORs, Llama.

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If you've never been made aware of the distinction, you might well not realize that there is a different way to parse "Are you a miller or a pro-town program?".

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@Mod

, ^that and a VC.

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Hypocricy is irrelevant, Khan.

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How does the fact that they're still capable of scumhunting despite committing certain types of scummy behaviour show connections? Double standards tell us something, but judging your own behaviour differently is only natural if the goal is to determine alignment. Hypocrisy is the non-connection-revealing member of the double standards family.

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Lynch TF, vig ®_© > lynch ®_©, vig TF.

Random thought: creampuffeater and vezok both work as vig kills, so cult is more likely than usual.

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Yeah, that bigot Zindaras, always coming down on French-Canadians.

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First off, no, it doesn't at all.

Secondly, let's not pretend that the word bigot doesn't have clear connotations of being prejudiced against a group based on religion, race or ethnicity.

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Number one lynch candidates tend to be number one lynch candidates for a reason, Zindy.

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That post is too pointless to be scummy.

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You don't claim Neo as SK when you don't have to claim.

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Vig Yosarian, ABR.

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God damnit all to hell. Can't I get through one fucking game without being either mislynched as town or vigged by some bloody idiot?

You made it through Hydras just fine.

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Hez gets it.

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If you expect me to read that Batt, post it without spoilers.

Wow. Stop being so lazy, rofl. If you

aren't

scum (which I highly doubt), then you're the epitome of anti-town.

Unvote, vote: ®_©

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®_©'s catch-up is boring and uninsightful.

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For the record, ranmaru, I read that entire post by ®_© since I care slightly more about what one of my suspects is posting than what you are.

®_©, the problem with your catch-up was that it contained too many irrelevancies (e.g. Amrun did this, this post by BMQ is a null tell) and didn't show a whole lot of thought (e.g. giving Llamafluff town points, giving Yosarian2 scum points for having unpopular opinions). It could've been condensed to 10% of its current length, easy-peasy.

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You really want him to include stuff like "#100 (Surye): "if he is VT or scum, he will survive the night, and again, no real information on the wagon or analysis. Ugh, i hate d1 VT claims." == This obviously didn't happen. Still, null. (also, Surye flipped town on N1)"?

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Llama "I would be willing to vote RC to stop a deadline no lynch" Fluff

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Unvote, vote: DeathNote

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Dammit Llama, you're supposed to be better than this.

Unvote, vote: ®_©

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Nonsense. There's nothing wrong with keeping your win conditions non-specific as a Mod. The WC tells us very little.

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If you're town, and someone's calling you scum, either their facts are wrong, their logic is wrong, they're jumping to conclusions incorrectly, or at the very least their argument is inconclusive. One of those things must be true, and whenever someone accuses you, it's your job to say why they're wrong.

Most arguments in a game of mafia are by their very nature inconclusive. That's not worth pointing out.

®_© isn't very good at pretending to tunnel. And with 4 eyes on the thread, you'd think one of them would've picked up that SensFan had a legitimate reason to want not to have to read a spoilered post.

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His vote on town Suyve day 1 was really bad. The timing was bad, and I still have no idea why he decided to suddenly drop the Furc wagon and leap over to the Suyve wagon. It's even odder the way he attacked me for NOT voting Furc for the vanilla claim at the same time he was unvoting Furc; consistanty is a lame argument, especally if his read that Furc was town was similar to mine (and if it wasn't, why did he unvote Furc?).

That we both had town reads on him, means nothing - you held that read long before it was even remotely justifiable and I've seen no indication that you saw what I saw. And no, inconsistency is not a lame argument when applied to basic meta-stances.

CES is generally really hard to read, but when he's town I usually agree with his votes when he's making them, even if he dosn't explain them I can see why he's doing it based on what's going on at the time.

That was true in Hydras too. Obvious explanation for us not synching up is that you're scum.

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You're still attacking me for NOT voting for someone you think is town. No matter how I came to the conclusion that I didn't want to vote for that guy, that doesn't make sense. You're making it sound like there is ONE AND ONLY ONE possible way that anyone could have gotten a mild town-read on Furc day 1, and that's just silly; there's as many different ways to read someone as there are mafia players.

I don't see how attacking you for not voting for a town read of mine is the least bit problematic. Your motivations are more important than your actions.

If Furc is in fact town, then the most likely explanation for your actions is that you're scum who wanted to mislynch Suyve, but also wanted to keep the Furc wagon alive so you could mislynch him later, so you moved to the Suyve wagon while trying to pressure me onto the Furc wagon.

CES, the master manipulator!

Consistancy is scummy. It usually means that you're more worried about making all of your arguments look like they're logically compatable with each other then you are about actually lynching the right guy.

Using "lack of consisntancy" as an excuse to attack someone for not doing something you personally don't believe in is just scummy on your part.

Consistency is scummy when we're talking about consistency over time. Being overly concerned about this type of consistency would also be scummy. But judging two highly similar actions similarly is the furthest thing from scummy!

]In Hydras, I thought you were town. After the game was over, you said that I was actually basically right about your day 1 play, that you were made a mistake and taking risks you really shouldn't have taken as scum because you were too locked into a town mindset at the time. Well, I think you decided to fix that mistake this game, so you're just scum playing as scum.

We also had very similar positions on e.g. Profane Confusion, Balam's roleclaim. The basic synching up was there throughout the game.

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If you thought the timing of Vez' claim was scummy, you sure did a hell of a job hiding it until now.

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If you thought the timing of Vez' claim was scummy, you sure did a hell of a job hiding it until now.

...

This is a really horrible trap argument you're trying to make here, questioning me on this now considering in how much detail I described exactly what I thought about Vez on day 1, and you're probably scum for making it.

Oh yes, I checked your iso carefully. Your stance on Vez is crystal clear - he was a "better than random" lynch. At no point did you suggest that there was anything there beyond the vt claim.

Your whole attempt to manipulate me into voting for Furc yesterday, while you were getting off the wagon yourself, was scummy as hell, and no amount of double talk or stupid BS about "constancy" is going to change that at this point. The way Furc claimed vanilla looked much more town-ish then the way Vez claimed vt, and the way you're trying to pretend one is the same as the other to make a BS constancy argument is also scummy.

I did push you towards the wagon, but that was before Furc committed the town tell that made me get off; I was still fully committed to the Furcwagon at that point. I think the two vt claims were sufficiently similar for a consistency argument to apply; if you disagree with that statement, why don't you explain to me what was so town about the Furcclaim (we know you didn't think the Vezclaim was scummy, so don't start with that BS)?

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Seriously, Albert, vig this guy.

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I've been looking through Llama's posting. Keeping in mind what I saw last game from Llamacop, Open 300, the distinct lack of town reads and him specifically claiming not to be an "alignment cop", my best guess here is that he's a machine cop and got a result on TF. Fairly useless on account of TF already having claimed program, but yeah, I'm not gonna go for DN here.

Vote: TF

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Why isn't ToonFighter dead yet?

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Who cares? Dude's scum.

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Why was I an obvious kill though?

No one was looking particularly townie, so you just kill the players who are active and competent. Part of the reason I made that comment was actually because I realized I would probably list myself next so working down that list suddenly seemed much less appealing.