Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

[AGar]

Well looks like the "fuck with Llama's head" bit was cleaned up before I got here. Right play there.

I can get behind a GummyBear lynch here. Coming in and pushing hard policy on a player like that and attacking anyone who calls them on it reads really shit to me.

VOTE: Gummybear

[Porochaz]

Uggghhh falling victim to apathy/busyness/sleepiness.

Tomorrow is when it'll have to be, despite my (empty) promises.

>.<

Your bugging me now. Post properly or replace out. No middle ground.

[Internet Stranger]

Im looking for another suspect within the voting patterns, but I cant find the trifecta, someone who jumped on Vezo, Furc and Surye bandwagons. Until something obvious like that comes up, im sheeping Amrun.

Vote: Toon Fighter

[Yosarian2]

Only the cop would know who it was.

LF says the PM said a specific player is the cult recruiter. I might be reading it wrong but I interpret that sentence as meaning that the PM included said specific person. Otherwise, it would make no sense for the whole "specific player" thing to be there.

It does, but unless the person who sent this claims to be a player who has absolutely no barring over who they target, if they live, I am fine. Also its about 90% false, I mean, town amnesic role cop who only gets the role name, but NOT character name, in a game where there is no role (ie Cult Recruiter) attached to the character?

Its false. Im saying this as much for the offchance that its true as that no one gets suckered by it in the future.

I trust the result even less (about 1% odds, in my opinion), but I just don't see why we wouldn't want it out there. We'd want it out there to ignore, but there's no real downside as long as we don't act upon it until we get some hard evidence. Also, if it

is

fake, then we know that the targeted person probably isn't part of the scumgroup which is trying to deceive us.

I absolutly agree with Zinderas here. You do need to release all the information in whatever PM you're saying you got Llama. We won't just blindly lynch the person, but we do need to know.

[MrBuddyLee]

Im looking for another suspect within the voting patterns, but I cant find the trifecta, someone who jumped on Vezo, Furc and Surye bandwagons. Until something obvious like that comes up, im sheeping Amrun.

Vote: Toon Fighter

Please give your analysis of ToonFighter's play.

[BrianMcQueso]

a) Mafia, SK, Vig or two Mafia, Vig are both quite realistic possibilities.

Well, yeah, that was my point. Neither of those setups have room for a cult.

b) This is a point I disagree with. All you need is a scum message-sender. I had that role in both Packrats Mafia and Artifacts Mafia. Beyond that, we'd never chainlynch based on this because it's not Llama's role or Llama's result.

Perhaps I overestimated the effect of the messenger's power. Still, if that messenger had gone with a more believable message (X is a town, where X isn't actually town) it would've been stronger.

The final dichotomy is just faulty. Llama may not be lying, he may simply have been fed false information. Three options, not two.

I listed three options

. I even labeled them (a), (b) and (c). "Llama is telling the truth and was lied to" was option B.

[BrianMcQueso]

Reading ReaperCharlie in iso, almost all his posts are "I promise to post later" or "I acknowledge I haven't posted."

Trying to comment on everything is too much for me, and takes WAY too long.

Then comment on something. Anything. Other than your own inactivity, of course. Or replace out, and stop replacing into games if you're not going to make the effort to play in them.

[Zindaras]

a) Mafia, SK, Vig or two Mafia, Vig are both quite realistic possibilities.

Well, yeah, that was my point. Neither of those setups have room for a cult.

I would disagree with you on that. In both cases, there's a lot of scum, but crosskills help a lot.

b) This is a point I disagree with. All you need is a scum message-sender. I had that role in both Packrats Mafia and Artifacts Mafia. Beyond that, we'd never chainlynch based on this because it's not Llama's role or Llama's result.

Perhaps I overestimated the effect of the messenger's power. Still, if that messenger had gone with a more believable message (X is a town, where X isn't actually town) it would've been stronger.

Yes, believability is always important. But had any of us gotten a random message saying "X is scum", I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have lynched that person on the spot either. At least, that's what happened the last time I saw a role like this. Paranoia is rampant.

The final dichotomy is just faulty. Llama may not be lying, he may simply have been fed false information. Three options, not two.

I listed three options

. I even labeled them (a), (b) and (c). "Llama is telling the truth and was lied to" was option B.

Unless there is a possibility I'm missing (admittedly possible), we either have a "two vigilantes, one scum group and a cult" setup; or Llama is lying.

That's the dichotomy I was talking about.

[ReaperCharlie]

Uggghhh falling victim to apathy/busyness/sleepiness.

Tomorrow is when it'll have to be, despite my (empty) promises.

>.<

Your bugging me now. Post properly or replace out. No middle ground.

It'll happen. Eventually. My other game's deadline is much sooner though.

[SensFan]

Uggghhh falling victim to apathy/busyness/sleepiness.

Tomorrow is when it'll have to be, despite my (empty) promises.

>.<

Your bugging me now. Post properly or replace out. No middle ground.

It'll happen. Eventually. My other game's deadline is much sooner though.

Was the other game's deadline also "much sooner" than this one 3 days ago when you hammered someone less than 12 hours before a deadline and still didn't provide any content?

[ReaperCharlie]

Nope.

But I clearly explained why I was waiting until today.

Get off my nuts.

[Zindaras]

You have reads. Post them. I don't even care if you explain them right now or do it later, but your constant delays are annoying and scummy.

[BrianMcQueso]

Get off my nuts.

Stop trying to post something and post something![/matrixreference]

We will stop hounding you for your delays when you stop delaying. It's really that simple. You clearly have time to be checking this and making excuses that could be spent more productively.

vote: ReaperCharlie

[SensFan]

Nope.

But I clearly explained why I was waiting until today.

Get off my nuts.

Oh, right.

Well, then, just so everyone in this game knows, I've decided to wait until I see ABR's flip (if and when it comes) to talk about my reads after that, since I think it will be good to just read the game after I know if I should just sheep his views. That's the cool thing to do, right?

In the meantime,

Unvote; Vote: RC

[Porochaz]

Dont need deadwood.

vote RC

Excuse about deadline when one in this game has been and gone makes me angry

[DeathNote]

Can we concentrate here? RC lack of posting does not mean scum, it just means that he is not contributing to the game and should replace out.

TF is where your votes should be.

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: Porochaz

several reasons:

1. Voting another "deadwood" policy lynch (ReaperCharlie) when 2-3 of his main suspects are still alive. (DeathNote and AGar. I'm guessing Frank and Valerie are Furc and vez?)

The 3 top lynch candidates.

1, Frank, beyond what happened before, the voting is horrible
2, DeathNote, her posts have gotten incredibly bad - I might go into this later, but as I prefer Frank just now
3, Valerie, Ive made my reasons clear on him already

The bandwagon analysis isn't a great indicator in my view as both whether you like it or not have done things to warrant votes.

If I was to put a 4th person on the list it would be Agar, mostly due to his fierce stance on the val wagon, its the aggressiveness not the stance which bothers me. However Im not willing to put a vote on him until I had ISO'd him and done some looking at his meta.

2. Extraordinarily high post to content ratio. Very image-oriented.

3. If Amrun was killed by scum/SK targeting another scum faction, Porochaz was really the only person to go after her aggressively yesterday.

[LlamaFluff]

Yeah not claiming that result today, MAYBE will claim it tomorrow if im around, but I had nothing to do with the cult result so someone else will have the result (the investigator). To even pass as amnesic though, scum would need to send another fake result, and have breadcrumbed amnesic, basically forcing them to kill me tonight, and then win a 1 on 1 with the recruiter. Given thats its nearly for sure fake (really? Town amnesic role cop?) im thinking that we just pass on it today, and tomorrow I claim full result, amnesic claims if they are real, and we clean up.

[LlamaFluff]

Not to mention reactions also point away from it being real, since there is just one person who fits the bill of possible amnesic, and if the resultee has posted, really looks like non-CR with their reaction.

Now, one thing here REALLY bugs me, and that is that I played a gambit almost identical to this very recently. Super ironic on so many levels really. Not too many of the same players in this game though. I dont think I have actually seen an amnesic cop though on MS, although I have seen a scum message sender.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah not claiming that result today, MAYBE will claim it tomorrow if im around, but I had nothing to do with the cult result so someone else will have the result (the investigator).

I don't get it. If you have information, why not share it? If we're dealing with a scum messenger that's screwing with us, then at least we'll know who that person tried to frame.

Waiting until tomorrow seems pretty pointless.

[LlamaFluff]

After everyone has had a chance to chime in an lay out a possible connection to the investigation target I probably will. I want a few more people to give specific input into the matter first though, always can help for tackling future things.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, before I get any more distracted, let me go back to the train of thought I started the day with.

Surye (13) - (Internet Stranger, Zindaras, vezokpiraka, Kison, Cogito Ergo Sum, HezLucky, Furcolow, AGar, DeathNote, Kublai Khan, Primate, LlamaFluff, ReaperCharlie)

Just for the sake of argument, I'm going to assume there were at least some scum actively pushing this wagon, from a reasonably early point.

Vez was town. I'm pretty sure IS is town as well. And I'm not worried about the last few people who joined it to prevent a no-lynch, that's pretty much null.

If there was a scum pushing the Surye lynch from a fairly early point, I'm thinking it was probably either Kison, who attacked Surye but didn't really do much of anything else on day 1 (he also attacked bamboomancer early on, but seems to have forgotten it and hasn't had any questions or anything for Bamboomancer's replacement) or CES; I'm not really impressed by CES's posting day 1 in general. Zindaras is also possible, but that seems less likely to me.

Vote:Kison

for now.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

That's horrid, Yosarian.

You're basically going:
1) take a group of people
2) state that there's bound to be scum in there without explanation, relying on the size of the group to make your statement seem sufficiently plausible
3) call out several members of the group as being likely town
4) ignore the fact that it undermines that this undermines 2)
5) conclude that the other members of the group are somehow now more likely to be scum

[Kublai Khan]

Hey everyone.. Sorry I haven't posted yet. Been taking a new medication that's got my head all woozy. Can't seem to look at a screen/monitor for over 30 minutes without getting a headache.

Have some patience with me. I'll get back in the swing of things as soon as I can...

[ReaperCharlie]

V/LA this weekend.

May be able to post Friday.