Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Wow look at all the scum come buzzing around the easy lynch targets. Irony

[vezokpiraka]

I'm keeping my vote on surye.

The speed of furc's wagon was incredible. I know he is pretty bad but that wagon was lightning fast.

I have mixed feelings about furc.

[MrBuddyLee]

Wow look at all the scum come buzzing around the easy lynch targets. Irony

Can you please be more specific?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Why isn't Furcolow dead yet?

[Zindaras]

So, Zindaris, you are so content with your case on Surye, which is an explicit sheep of medicated lain and which is obviously a dying wagon, that you FoS TWO people in a new post without moving your vote OR addressing Surye again at all? You haven't questioned Surye either.

Zindaris new suspect.

Read my posts.

Okay, reading the pregame and day so far, I like the Vez bandwagon. Since a lynch would, especially D1 with as little information based on PR due to no n0, be either best case senario, or second to best (scum, or no PR). I'm fine with taking as much time as we want on the actual lynch, however scum and town alike will be likely to lynch him, in either case. Bussing someone who claims VT, especially one that has meta from others as a bad player/policy lynch regardless of the claim, leads little information on the bandwagon itself.

I think unfortunately with his claim, we've lost a chance at a lot of information we could have acquired on D1, and we're going to end it with much less for the PRs to go on in the night.

So,

Vote: Vez

Vote: Surye

Lain's #104 basically describes my entire position on this whole Vez issue. I think Yossy did a slight turn on Vez and seemed to become a lot less vituperative after the backlash. I am wary of Vez because his vanilla claim essentially just gives him a free pass to not get killed until endgame if he's scum.

Given the way it's put, I understand that this may lead to some confusion. However, had you actually

read

Lain's #104, you'll notice that she doesn't actually mention Surye at all. I simply agreed with her as a separate point (and didn't quote her because I thought my post was large enough as is). The vote on Surye was because the post I quoted was scummy for all the obvious reasons. Also, I'd like to refer you to the post I made after Lainy asked me for an explanation. You can hardly call it a sheep. Hell, I

started

the Surye wagon.

Also, I don't care if it's a dying wagon. It's on scum. My read on Surye is far stronger than the other reads I have. I FoS'd Furcolow for the clear contradiction in the two posts I quoted, which I found suspicious, plus the third post. As for the Toony case, I thought your point on the way he behaved around DeathNote was striking. I also disliked the way he singled out DeathNote while Surye and Yossy voted Vezzy for the same basic reason.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Are you bussing Surye, Zindykins?

[Zindaras]

FoS: Furcolow

I honestly buy the inactivity thing but I think his Vezok vote is scummy. Fur's apparently been inactive throughout the site and I don't see why we shouldn't believe him. I will only consider his inactivity suspicious if this becomes a trend throughout the game.

The inactivity isn't the problem. It's the selective activity.

Look, I agree that his return was sudden and rather peculiarly timed, but I believe Toony isn't completely wrong in his appraisal of Furry's activity: there's no posting on May 3rd through May 5th and no posts on May 1st either. May 2nd was the start of the day, not long after the Vanilla claim. If Furry remains consistently active from now on, I honestly don't see it as much of an excuse to actually lynch him.

[Zindaras]

Are you bussing Surye, Zindykins?

Why don't you just vote him and find out, Cessybuns?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Are you bussing Surye, Zindykins?

Why don't you just vote him and find out, Cessybuns?

So you confess to being scum?

[Zindaras]

Are you bussing Surye, Zindykins?

Why don't you just vote him and find out, Cessybuns?

So you confess to being scum?

*shrugs*

It wasn't as if it mattered what I said. Might as well try to make you vote him while I'm at it.

Why aren't you voting him anyway?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I don't find the case against Surye particularly convincing and the Furcolowwagon has potential.

[Internet Stranger]

I fully support a Surye lynch.

The Vezo and Furc wagons are full of opportunistic scum looking to get easy lynches on notorious players.

[Amrun]

Zinadaris: I did misread that post you highlighted, which led to some confusion. My more important point, though, was that you have not followed Surye as scum or questioned her once throughout the game. Iirc, you have two posts that address something scummy Surye did, both briefly, and one or two more posts talking about voting for her in a votecount confusion.

In your big FoS post, you don't address Surye at all.

You have not made a case on Surye, for someone who "started the wagon" on her. If you're so convinced Surye is scum, why are you not a) trying to further your read on her, b) trying to convince others to lynch scum?

[Zindaras]

I don't find the case against Surye particularly convincing and the Furcolowwagon has potential.

Why'd you vote Surye in your second post? It was kinda weird, to be honest.

[MrBuddyLee]

The Vezo and Furc wagons are full of opportunistic scum looking to get easy lynches on notorious players.

Is this glib, or are you on the record as thinking Vez and Furc are town?

[Zindaras]

Zinadaris: I did misread that post you highlighted, which led to some confusion. My more important point, though, was that you have not followed Surye as scum or questioned her once throughout the game. Iirc, you have two posts that address something scummy Surye did, both briefly, and one or two more posts talking about voting for her in a votecount confusion.

I'm sorry, I don't fully understand what you mean with following Surye. Anyway. After I voted him, I further addressed something scummy he did in this post. I asked Yossy for his opinion on Surye here. Then I continued my earlier point with Surye here and also made a sizeable case there.

In your big FoS post, you don't address Surye at all.

I don't see why I should address Surye in every single post I make. For example, you're now discussing with me, even though you're voting ToonFighter. Surye's V/LA anyway, so I've hardly had much opportunity to expand upon it.

You have not made a case on Surye, for someone who "started the wagon" on her. If you're so convinced Surye is scum, why are you not a) trying to further your read on her, b) trying to convince others to lynch scum?

I once again refer you to post #290. That's a significant enough case, especially when you compare it to what else is on the table (it is Day One, after all). The Vezok case is based on a Vanilla claim and the Furcolow case is based on supposed lurking and a bad Vez-vote. None of the other Surye-voters even responded to Lainy's request to iron out why they were voting Surye.

I've played one Mafia game over the past two to three years. I'm honestly a tad rusty on the whole debating and aggressive side, which is exacerbated by the fact that I'm quite busy. Perhaps I will become more aggressive later on. Though I do try to convince other people that Surye is scum. Again, I've made a number of different points against him.

And I started the wagon in that I was the first person to vote Surye. I have no idea if the others on the wagon are voting Surye because of my arguments. That's up to them to say. It was an important point because you asserted I was participating in herd behaviour.

[Amrun]

Well, I maintain that you could have done more with Surye, but I retract the sheeping point due to my misread.

[Zindaras]

Well, I maintain that you could have done more with Surye, but I retract the sheeping point due to my misread.

Why aren't you voting Surye anyway? Clearly he's a better lynch than ToonFighter.

[Amrun]

I disagree. If you want ne to vote Surye, why don't you post a consolidated case to try and convince me?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I don't find the case against Surye particularly convincing and the Furcolowwagon has potential.

Why'd you vote Surye in your second post? It was kinda weird, to be honest.

Bandwagonning!

[Zindaras]

I disagree. If you want ne to vote Surye, why don't you post a consolidated case to try and convince me?

Why do you disagree? Since you presumably read my posts, you should know my points. Hell, and even if you haven't, I want to know your read on him based on what you've got.

I'll see if I can get my case in one separate post for you tomorrow, if you would find that to be more pleasing than having to go through my posts.

[BrianMcQueso]

The Vezo and Furc wagons are full of opportunistic scum looking to get easy lynches on notorious players.

There's both scum and innocents on every bandwagon (last time I checked, the mafia couldn't lynch a player by themselves). Unless you think we should be pursuing a "difficult" lynch for the sake of it being difficult? Easy lynches are easy because the target is scummy. If the target wasn't scummy, so many people wouldn't be voting for them. Also, I don't want my words twisted as "a person is scummy because people are voting for them", because that's not what I'm saying.

@BrianMcqeso, would you like for me to talk about how IS made you look like an idiot?
or about how everyone talked about vezokpiraka for ten pages?

Oh yeah! What a sick burn by IS. You should definitely waste more of our time talking about that. Say what you will about vezokpiraka being innocent or not, but his claim at the start of the day gave us something to talk about. How people reacted to it is valuable information and discussion.

The better players in the thread are voting Vezokpiraka. The only people voting me are generally the anal-retentive mathematicians, idiots like Toon, or scum like LlamaFluff

Way to suck up to the people you agree with and blast the people against you. This is textbook scummy behavior.

[Zindaras]

I don't find the case against Surye particularly convincing and the Furcolowwagon has potential.

Why'd you vote Surye in your second post? It was kinda weird, to be honest.

Bandwagonning!

Can't really go wrong with getting on some sweet wagons. I'll be honest, though. It was much more fun when you were still on the Surye-wagon. Now I'm just stuck with the Joker, a guy who only listens to his headphones and doesn't actually talk and, well, Vezok. This wagon is lacking snuggliness.

[Amrun]

I have read your posts and I don't see anything concrete there. Nothing convinces me. I certainly do not have a townread on Surye, but I haven't seen anything to knock me neyond null.

You have actually posted more on surye than several others advocating that lynch. Perhaps one of the others should post a case. Really, you should all post cases. I'd still like you to expand.

I do have a reason for asking; sometimes, scum can post a lot of spread out points on a person that looks productive but doesn't really add up to anything.

[MrBuddyLee]

@AGar, Primate and LlamaFluff:
If you were scumpartners with vez in this game, would you advise him to claim vanilla town right off the bat?