Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

[Zindaras]

Dude's a wily cat.

Do you think he's scum or town? Also, what do you think of Yossy?

As an aside, I forgot to mention Amrun. Her posts vary from very scummy to very towny. Some weird reaches that seem to be based on poor reading, some good posts, some really bad. For example, the MBL Scummy comment is just silly. Feeding the paranoia monster in our brains is always a bad thing.

Besides, I'm sure that a significant portion of our playerlist was nominated for scum-Scummies. But, then again, those probably aren't the people that Amrun wants to cast doubts upon.

[Amrun]

No, that was my exact point, Yosarian. It doesn't matter.

MBL likes to use my perfect scum record and scummy nomination as a point that I'm more likely to be scum; hence his various comments like, "Amrun always looks town" and "Amrun is very good scum."

That annoys me precisely because it has no validity and fosters paranoia.

I only mentioned his scummy to turn it back around on him so he would stop using it as a point against me.

As a matter of fact, his gummybears case is making me feel much better about him. I was concerned about his lack of effort, but maybe he was just lazy.

[Amrun]

Zindaras: good point about ABR retroactively adopting the percentages thing. I hadn't noticed that.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I don't have a read on MBL. Yos' inconsistency regarding how he handled the vezokclaim and the furcolowclaim suggests scum to me.

Amrun, I see MBL's points as completely valid. There's nothing wrong with a healthy dose of paranoia.

[Amrun]

Town needs to work together, CES.

Past history means nothing. Ythill had a perfect scum record until team mafia, where he got lynched D1 in dram's game.

Needless to say, Ythill has a lot more experience than me. 3 won scumgames doesn't mean a lot and MBL's paranoia mongering does no good for the town.

[BrianMcQueso]

The problem I had with ML's play, at least at up until the time I pointed it out, was that she was being noncommital on everything.

Understood.

how so?

I'd have thought I was being pretty reasonable towards people with different playstyles and different opinions, such as Agar for example, so long as they seemed to have plausible pro-town motivation for their actions.

I was mostly referring to the amount of time and effort you've spent trying to convince people that lynching a D0 claimed VT is the correct play, and trying to convince people that people should never claim VT ever ever. Not everyone follows the same line of logic, opinions differ.

[Yosarian2]

Yos' inconsistency regarding how he handled the vezokclaim and the furcolowclaim suggests scum to me.

I'm not going to lynch someone who I think is likely town just because they claimed vanilla to pressure. Claiming vanilla to pressure is a dumb move, but most people on mafiascum do it, so it's not a tell. The entire point I was making is that you lynch claimed vanillas if you don't have a read on them, not that you want to lynch people who actually seem to be vanilla town.

And, yes, I'm saying that I think Furcolow is likely town, despite some pretty bad plays on his part. I guess if it absolutely came down to lynching Furcolow or not lynching anyone, I'd rather lynch Furcolow now that he's claimed vanilla, but I would not be happy about it.

[Yosarian2]

Going to be V/LA for a 3 day weekend, leaving tonight, coming back monday.

[Yosarian2]

I was mostly referring to the amount of time and effort you've spent trying to convince people that lynching a D0 claimed VT is the correct play, and trying to convince people that people should never claim VT ever ever. Not everyone follows the same line of logic, opinions differ.

Yes, of course they do.

I also got almost everyone in the game to comment on if they would support a day 1 lynch of Vez or not; and, since I don't think many people in this game other then me have a known opinion on the matter, that gives scum a lot of wiggle room. If Vez does flip scum, who went what way on that debate is going to be very useful information.

[SensFan]

In post 357, Cessy starts the Furcolow wagon. I just love the reply in 359. The angry outburst, followed by the "oh, woops, you're not voting me."
Porochaz (365): Vote for timing.
SensFan (366): Calls out Furry for the same reasoning, but doesn't vote.

For the record, I had already voted him for timing at the time of my 366.

[Internet Stranger]

Looking at the vote count, all those people that are still off voting and not voting for either Furc or Surye are my prime suspects to heavily look into after SuryeScum is lynched. I will find you scum, and you will hang.

[Amrun]

Between Furc and Surye, I would vote for Surye, and basically plan to, before deadline.

But for now, I'm sticking with Toon Fighter. I don't know what else I can do to convince you all that he's scum...

[HezLucky]

Page 26 was the last wall? How unfortunate.

My vote was: creampuffeater has been on every shit wagon this game.
I want him lynched. Why does no one else have an opinion of creampuffeater?

Okay so let's start from the last post

Agar #628 - interesting theory. not sure what to think of it, though.

Surye #639 - I hope this post is a joke.

Amrun #652 - Amrun's summary of the game is completely biased. And yet this is why I feel she is town. Not trying to hide
anything, and the suspect list is solid.

Toon Fighter #653 - Wow this is really really stupid. He's basically saying "We should lynch a townie anyway for
whatever reason. Also, both players that claimed are townies. Let's lynch one of them. This will be good for the town"

If one of the players that had claimed VT was actually scum, I wouldn't be suspicious of TF. But I have a town read on both
vez and Furc, and so this post reeks of trying to sway the town to a mislynch.

SensFan #655 - still active lurking and pretending like he's scumhunting.

Medicated Lain #657 - guys ok I need a meta for this: how does Medicated Lain rate as a scumhunter?

Amrun #686 - raises a good point on Porochaz. His only votes have more or less been on those with wagons already.

Kison #690 - as of this line, I am somehwat (5th place on scumlist) suspicious of Surye, and have town reads on Vez and Furc.
Of all the wagons Kison could have joined, he chose the Surye one which isn't even leading. This post I support. He could've
gone for something much easier. (unfortunately for him he drops from 2nd only to tied for 3rd on my scumlist)

Furcolow #693 - Hey Furc, vote CPE with me. This guy is the scummiest person in teh whole game. Needs to be lynched badly.
Let's put some pressure on him. One is obviously not enough, as anything I've said on CPE has been ignored.

CPE #701 - so in other words. Your votes have been pointless. Kinda like my vote on you, in retrospect, as it seems unlikely
to lead to a lynch. HOWEVER, my votes have been good. You've basically voted for every town-looking person in the game. In
addition to that, you have been cruising by via not placing your votes in a place where they would be useful. This would be
okay, once again, if your vote was a good one. However, if we had it your way, we would've lynched nothing but town players
by now.

Medicated Lain #703 - is this post not the chainsaw defense on Surye? Attacking IS? hmm.

Amrun #711 - I looked at his alternate-from-Surye scumlist and completely agree. Except Porochaz. But Amrun is not scum.

Actually I will stpo and pickup at #725. I saw the deadline (which REALLY needs to be made more prominent -_-)

Suspect List -
creampuffeater - 61/100
Toon Fighter - 58/100
Kison - 57/100
SensFan - 57/100
Surye - 57/100
Medicated Lain - 56/100
Porochaz - 55/100
Zindaras - 54/100
AlbertBRampage - 54/100
LlamaFluff - 53/100
mozamis/CES - 51/100
MBL - 51/100
Internet Stranger - 51/100
Everyone else - 50/100
BrianMcQueso - 50/100
Agar - 49/100
vezopiraka - 49/100
Amrun - 48/100
Furcolow - 48/100
Yosarian2 - 48/100
Primate - 46/100


Guys, the Furcolow wagon is AWFUL. Vez is a crappy wagon. I am okay with the Surye lynch, but really its more of a "I'm
relatively okay with it" kinda thing aka. I would happily do it with a deadline. But I'm in no rush to lynch.


(Oh wow... just saw teh deadline. Okay.

Unvote, Vote: Surye

)

CREAMPUFFEATER IS SCUM. EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION TO THAT.

ugly deadline.

[Furcolow]

@Sens/BMQ/TF/CPE - Why is Furc scum? If you mention policy lynching, or even insinuate it, I am disqualifying the rest of your response.

Have you seen me use Policy for my Furc-vote at all? vezok, yes (and I'll respond to your vezok points later; I'm on my phone right now).

The bulk of the reasons that Furc is Scum is the blatant active lurking, and the OMGUS that went with it. Until the wagon formed on him, he was completely nonexistent, only bothering to post when someone either voted him or asked for him to be replaced. That was enough for a vote, as I talked about at the time, but THEN he decided to go out and vote himself. Game, Set and Match.

Willing to make an avatar bet on it mister game, set, and match?
I'd love to, buddy.

Also, MisterBuddyLee/Amrun, it's all well and good to joke about how weak Gummybear's vote on me was, but I'm the one with my neck in the noose, struggling, thanks.

Medicated Lain's #777 is a complete misrepresentation of times of posts. I made the post that they are saying is hypocritical prior to my claiming.

I saw very clearly, the times he started posting on the thread were in response to other posts. I thought that was suspicious too, until he defended by showing a number of times that Porochaz had pointed him out where he *didn't* respond.

My posting's timing is a coincedence. I don't care enough about you all to let you be the reason for the timing of my posts. I'm going to post when I'm going to post, there is no conspiracy theory.

I am strongly against voting for any players "who make bad choices" other than vezok. Furc, Surye, all wagons that shouldn't happen without lynching vezok first.

That'd be because the other two are your scumbuddies.

Yeah, judge, you're such a good player bro you can call the scumteam day 1
good job lurking as scum buddy i dont think the town will lynch you but i realize you are scum

Why isn't furc dead yet?

I don't like ABR's one-liners. But that comes with the character, I guess

Why aren't you scumhunting?
Tunneling is pro-town, bro, right? wrong.

anyways, i have to do this
I am pretty sure Surye will flip scum, but i KNOW I wont

vote: Surye

[Zindaras]

Yos' inconsistency regarding how he handled the vezokclaim and the furcolowclaim suggests scum to me.

I'm not going to lynch someone who I think is likely town just because they claimed vanilla to pressure. Claiming vanilla to pressure is a dumb move, but most people on mafiascum do it, so it's not a tell. The entire point I was making is that you lynch claimed vanillas if you don't have a read on them, not that you want to lynch people who actually seem to be vanilla town.

And, yes, I'm saying that I think Furcolow is likely town, despite some pretty bad plays on his part. I guess if it absolutely came down to lynching Furcolow or not lynching anyone, I'd rather lynch Furcolow now that he's claimed vanilla, but I would not be happy about it.

What do you think of the timing of Furry's claim? He was not pressured that significantly when he claimed.

No, that was my exact point, Yosarian. It doesn't matter.

MBL likes to use my perfect scum record and scummy nomination as a point that I'm more likely to be scum; hence his various comments like, "Amrun always looks town" and "Amrun is very good scum."

That annoys me precisely because it has no validity and fosters paranoia.

I only mentioned his scummy to turn it back around on him so he would stop using it as a point against me.

As a matter of fact, his gummybears case is making me feel much better about him. I was concerned about his lack of effort, but maybe he was just lazy.

As much as I might agree with you in principle, I think you're misrepresenting MBL slightly here. If you read the entire posts those lines come from:

Prozac, take a good read of all of Amrun's posts, and tell me what you think. She looks pretty town to me, all in all, even though I disagree with the whole "porochez is pushing easy wagons" argument. I'm not really clear about why you're voting for her.

Amrun always looks town. Read carefully.

Amrun: Looks town to me. MrBuddyLee (who also looks town to me), can you go into more detail about Amrun?

She's good scum, at least in other games. In this particular game, she's a bit loose with the facts, and fairly image conscious, but she's not on my primary radar at the moment. I don't like little white lies like:

I haven't been on either wagon... I tried to get on vez wagon real quick, but forgot to unvote and changed my mind anyway. Thanks for the misrep, MBL.

Accusing me of misrepresentation when she actually did try to get on the vez wagon but made a clerical error? That's pretty political, and a bit yucky.

Especially the second post is just pretty okay. Also, some people just have that kind of meta.

[Amrun]

I admit he's not doing it as explicitly in this game as he's doing in another ongoing game, and it bled over a little. The principle is basically the same, though.

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Surye

In the interest of insuring a lynch occurs, although a Furc wagon would still be tech. GummyBear going under noted.

[SensFan]

@Sens/BMQ/TF/CPE - Why is Furc scum? If you mention policy lynching, or even insinuate it, I am disqualifying the rest of your response.

Have you seen me use Policy for my Furc-vote at all? vezok, yes (and I'll respond to your vezok points later; I'm on my phone right now).

The bulk of the reasons that Furc is Scum is the blatant active lurking, and the OMGUS that went with it. Until the wagon formed on him, he was completely nonexistent, only bothering to post when someone either voted him or asked for him to be replaced. That was enough for a vote, as I talked about at the time, but THEN he decided to go out and vote himself. Game, Set and Match.

Willing to make an avatar bet on it mister game, set, and match?
I'd love to, buddy.

Nope. For many reasons.

[SensFan]

As for people on the Surye wagon, do we really want to wagon someone up to a claim at this point, hope he comes online to claim, and then hope that enough people are around after to move on to Furc if Surye's claim saves him? Isn't 2 claims enough for one day?

[AGar]

I would happily wagon Furc over Surye for that reason, but the Furc wagon is unfortunately receiving the same resistance as the Vezok wagon did.

[Surye]

People who jump the fur wagon for me because of the deadline either are idiots, scum, or have not read the rules.

[Kublai Khan]

Okay.. I've just about read the whole game last night and this morning. So my head is swimming a little. I'm now familiar with the major events and cases brought forth..

I still have to do some iso re-reads of who I dislike most. So I should have a quality post up later tonight. Thanks for your patience everyone.

[Internet Stranger]

As for people on the Surye wagon, do we really want to wagon someone up to a claim at this point, hope he comes online to claim, and then hope that enough people are around after to move on to Furc if Surye's claim saves him? Isn't 2 claims enough for one day?

That is precisely the kind of environment that gets bred when so much emphasis is put on claims. Scum can and will lie during this "claim phase", so whats the point of putting so much weight on them? Obviously someone was scummy enough to run them up the flagpole in the first place, so whats the point of letting them off the noose because of what they say. If their protests werent enough of a deterrent in the first place, why should a claim be? Why not just do a mass claim now and get it over with? (Note: I will never support a mass claim in any game for any reason). Either way, thats a discussion fior the eggheads on the mafia forums.

So Surye, if you want to continue to be all surly, go right ahead, all youre doing is showing your scummy stripes. Feel free to put up a fake claim now if you like, then maybe you can give some of your scummy brethren an excuse to jump back on Furc. Despite that, once youre lynched all those people off-voting or voting for Furc are going to be looking mighty foolish.

[Surye]

VT, I hope my mislynch will be of use to the town.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Flavor?