Chuck Season 1 - GAME OVER

[Thor665]

Vote: mikeburnfire

Because there's a 33% chance he's scum, most assuredly.

@Ant - I wouldn't make mistakes if you'd been better at broadcasting clear townishness, the rest of town hadn't lurked out and left me talking over reads with the scumteam, and we hadn't had one of those 1 in 20 fluke games with zero scum on the first lynch. In any case, I can't be wrong twice, you should probably sheep me

[Thor665]

@ooba - If you vote mikeburnfire you'll prove you're town.

[Thor665]

Coonsidering you are voting neither of them you are more likely scum than them - discuss.

[Thor665]

Protecting a scumbuddy with your favorite chainsaw, huh? *rev, revvvv*

This is totally blowing your scum team pairing out of the water further, clearly you're not scumhunting at all.

I know that the show exists - that's about it and I might be claiming more knowledge than I actually have.

[Thor665]

Sweet - what do you know about scumhunting? Specifically - anything going on in thread tickle your pickle in any way, shape, or form?

[Thor665]

Nope, nothing interesting has happened yet.

Nothing?
Hmmm - do you plan to do anything to help generate "something" or is your plan to wait and hope something happens without you being involved in it?

How could anything, uh, tickle her pickle if, uh, she's a girl... and stuff?

The Internet, where the men are men, the women are also men, and the children are FBI agents.

[Thor665]

My plan is to find scum.

Cool.
When you actually start doing this send me a card or something so I'll notice it. Obviously you haven't started yet, so I just want to make sure I'm in at the ground floor when it starts.

[Thor665]

Hello.

I am MarchHare. I am the best.

I will be leading today's lynch.

If you oppose this motion then speak now. Otherwise, shut the Smurf up down the road.

I oppose the motion.
Ooba is a better town read for me than you are thus far - find a better wagon or present some logic.
Your discussion with Rag was a universe of wet paper nappy wipes all over the place, soft, clinically scented, and good at clearing up nothing.

[Thor665]

Aren't you helpful.

But, yeah, no he isn't.

So how come I can't get another vote on mikeburnfire? Do people have a town read on him or something? He's only at like L-3 right now - what's one more vote if you've got no reads anywhere else? It will make me happy, and really that's what's important here.

[Thor665]

@MarchHare - I see you're out there, you should vote MBF or tell me why you're against the wagon.

[Thor665]

Dodgy answer is dodgy.

I'm pushing it because thus far I have one town read, a handfull of 'I hate them because they're lurkers' reads, and the rest all stand equal. I want to lynch someone, thus I chose Mikey boy - call it gut and him not deigning to respond to the wagon to show how "cool, calm, and town he is." I say it's lurking out because he's scum.

Why are you against the wagon?

[Thor665]

Bad wagon is a dodgy answer because it reveals, wait, let me check my math...carry the one...oh, here it is - 0 reasons why it's "bad".

How is he "not scummy"?

Who is "more scummy"?

Weren't you supposed to be a superstar leading a lynch? How's that working out for you?

[Thor665]

No, actually it got bigger, I just hid it slightly better.

Still dodgy McDodging I see - questions too tough? Why is it a "bad" wagon? WHo is a better lynch and why? This is Mafia, not rocket science.

[Thor665]

If he's not scummy I suppose you'll agree he's not townish either. So going off random statistics I'm doing about as good as I can (check my math though, I'm not good at rocket science). Going even further, since I believe I have 1 town read theoretically I'm doing slightly better than random selection.

Also, if this is the way you want to play it than your Ooba vote is "bad" too - and you're not even trying to get people to vote it so you can find out if random chance favored you.

Deeper scumhunting comes Day 2 and maybe late Day 1. Prior to that we have wagons for reasons that are weak but still valid.

[Thor665]

To each their own - Ooba remains a town read for me, so I spit on your wagon.

::ptoo:: ::ptoo::

Have fun with that "I have a scum read but see no reason to tell town about it" thing. That's a normal town action.

Unvote: Mikeburnfire
Vote: MarchHare

[Thor665]

I suspect 'donk' means vote.

[Thor665]

Or rather, more posting from certain players and probably a touch less from others.

[Thor665]

FOS: Thor665.

Jesus.

Why the delay on that?

[Thor665]

Just as long as you're saying it and not me

[Thor665]

I would expect Ythan to be playing better.

@RC - how about you wagon with me on the player who claims RVS evidence but decides it's pro-town to hide it while also deriding a RVS case. Something is gakked up in there.

[Thor665]

...am I being trolled?

[Thor665]

@ReaperCharlie - I'm just a little slow at noticing, though I'll add you aren't calling another RVS case "bad case" while also advancing an RVS case at the same time via a secret tell - which is the basis of the scumtell I noted.

What do you think of my case on MarchHare?
Also, will you explain your secret scumtell?

@Rag - how does that make sense, and aren't you voting MikeyB still?

[Thor665]

Awwww, now I don't get to act snarky and refuse to claim while at L-1.

I agree with RC about Rag and disagree about Pere, though I'll let him dance through those questions himself.
RC has committed a slight towntell now, but he's also a bit of a clever bastich and might have just been playing the system - but he can go join Ooba on the town side of the park for a while.

[Thor665]

Reaper, does this ring any bells? C'mon, if you're pressuring someone at least pretend to read their posts while you're faking scum hunting

@RC - considering you know MH's prime - what do you think of the catch I have on him. Is that normal or not in his meta and do you find the hypocrisy of his position scummy, or even hypocritical?

[Thor665]

OMG you are so dumb to have missed it!

[Thor665]

Are we still joking about how dumb you are hahahahaha.
Or is this that art OMG! where you answer my question?

[Thor665]

What do you mean respond to the wagon. There's been no real reason given for all these votes, so what is he supposed to defend against?

I didn't say defend, I said respond. I'll admit this answer feels dodgy but it's a real answer. He hadn't reacted to the wagon at all, not even to really try scumhunting anyone or looking at it for scum.
He later did this and I felt better about him for it. I felt it was odd it took me calling him on it for it to happen, but at the moment I was contented.

[Thor665]

So how about we bus our scumbuddy RC?

Unvote: MarchHare
Vote: danakillsu

[Thor665]

So tell me. Why do YOU think dana is scum? Or is your vote hollow?

Totally hollow - but nobody is coming in on MarchHare really so I'm back to fishing for reactions. You just called dana and me a scumteam - why wouldn't you want to hop on him even if it's with his bussing buddy?

[Thor665]

Why make a vote that's totally hollow, instead of voting for who you think is scum?

Because part of the game is voting scum, and part of the game is convincing other people you're voting scum. A vote of 1 on scum other people are calling town is about as helpful as spitting into the wind. Besides, I'm an idiot and may be wrong, and I also may be bussing - so there is that.

I'm already voting for scum, why would I need to vote for other scum?

How about we pressure the dude who's actually here a bit first? I got $5 that this chump will flake out and we'll get someone new anyway.

[Thor665]

Town needs some direction sooner rather than later - we're on Page 10 and I still feel like we're in the RVS and it's making me crawl the walls.

DayVig: MarchHare

[Thor665]

D:

You'll be for tomorrow if I make it.

@ChannelDel - look at how town is dorking around and tell me we're not in a random period. RC is calling people scum teams while still not voting them. Ragi s catting around with her style of nothingness and acting like it's still relevant by this stage of the game, half the players are barely participating, and we're running a wagon on me that no one is actually advancing or trying to do anything with. Frankly I'd like to kill the whole lot of you.

What do you see as our non-random progress and where do you think we should have been going?

[Thor665]

I hate fake day vigs. Thor, can you show me a game where you've fake dayvigg'd as Town?

Nope - though if you're willing to believe self meta this is the first time I've done it ever. As noted, I'm crawling the walls over here, by page 10 most games are much further along than this one, I feel like we're being trapped in eternal RVS.

Thor takes the opposite side of the debate, saying that scumhunting has little value as far as catching scum goes until a little later into the game (late day 1, and day 2). He says that cases built before then are going to be weak, although clearly advocates early aggression.

I'll agree with you about Dana shifting somewhat on where his debate point with March Hare was.
I fully and absolutely agree with dana that I was not taking the debate point you seem to believe I was taking. Go re-read me and reappraise.

MarchHare. Alliance w/me in this game? Yes/No.

MoS is also invited. mikeburnfire and Thor are not.

That is a town alliance of ultimate win...
RC is on my scummy list now.

[Thor665]

I'm hurt I'm not invited to the town party where you're voting one of the town?
Eh...not really.
Keep obfuscating your reads though - it's really townie.

[Thor665]

My role PM.

[Thor665]

Describe what reasons I should believe that you are a townie, over my overwhelming feeling that you are scum.

I barely like to make cases about who is scum, I have very little desire to make a case for myself being town. I would point out your reasons for suspecting me scum are gak and hooey, and I don't even know what they are - but that's as far as I'm willing to carry you.

Ant can join you in the scumboat. I actually want to kill over half the playerlist now. This is not happy/fun times.

[Thor665]

Bolded above should be your first clue that you're wrong.

Gak and hooey is my playstyle. Don't like it, replace out.

Who all's in the scumboat at this point? I'd like to know.

1. I know I'm wrong - but I submit that the blame should be spread around and made clear.

2. I'll replace out if you're town, as then gak and hooey as a playstyle affects me. Otherwise it helps me - please fullclaim so I know what to do.

3. From the player list.

danakillsu
Ant_to_the_max
Mastermind of Sin
Ragnarokio
ReaperCharlie
animorpherv1
MarchHare

Yeah, I'm not happy about that either, so don't come in saying 'Wah-wah, Thor should scumhunt better'. Yeah, maybe you're right, but maybe everyone on this list who is town should up their game quality for me too.

[Thor665]

If there is one thing that is a pet peeve of mine, it's people reading something into a random vote as if it was anything but a random vote. Don't make me hate you forever.

I am your pet peeve personified - hate away.
My pet peeve is people suggesting any votes in this game somehow aren't evidence. Also - lack of votes is evidence.

@RC - The Town Alliance looks like one scum, and one questionable. I'm out.

@MBF - Fluff accusations after MoS managed to (continue) to slide by for claiming 'lol, fluff'? Meh. How about you vote dana or MarchHare - or do you have townreads there?

[Thor665]

Seriously, WTF is this Smurf?

I just skimmed Thor in iso. and he's hardly mentioned me since his precious fake day vig. He asked RC to meta me and hasn't even taken note of RC's response. Jesus Christ.

I could tunnel you more if I felt it would help - I was pretty explicit in reasons I got off you, and the thing you're complaining about is me bringing up that I still think you're scummy.
Congratulations - you have caught me being consistent. Good job!

@MarchHare: You said you've played with him before, and didn't like his playstyle. Was he fluffy and directionless then?

No, it was just narrow minded and generally bad. He was town in that game.

Generally bad? Nah, you couldn't have played with me before. That said, stay tuned and I'll respond to you and PereV at the same time via a quote!

@Thor- Since I don't think I've seen your play as scum yet, and I don't find this completely unfounded at this point, can you respond?

we're on Page 10 and I still feel like we're in the RVS and it's making me crawl the walls.

ITT MarchHare has accurately provided a read on how I'm playing today that I already provided for everyone. Good job!
Do you think my call that I feel we're still in RVS might lead to a feeling that I'm directionless? And, quite frankly, this was an accusation I already leveled *at the entire thread* (quite justly I believe) so...good job again, MH, you're rocking along.

I'm too May 5thed up to bother with most of the rest of these walls. That Pere wagon certainly sprang up quick and aggressive all of a sudden once Dana started picking up speed. We didn't see that when my wagon sprouted. Food for thought, I sorta feel we're on the right track and Pere is the chosen mislynch wagon. That's all I've got.

[Thor665]

@MoS - that's pretty weak. How about you just comment on more things and then we won't think you believe they are fluff. Huzzah!

[Thor665]

@MoS;

MikeyBurningfire - Perhaps if you guys didn't spam up the topic so much, it would be worth MoS's time.
MoS - This
Energetic Penguin - I don't like how MoS uses the fluff in the thread to excuse his lack of participation.
MoS - I didn't say anything about fluff.
Ant - quotes above exchange.
MoS - ::insert weak as hell exchange wherein he basically says there's a difference between spam and fluff.

Let's break it down, even if there's a difference between spam and fluff (and I'll accept there is) What you're now claiming is that there's a lot of *content* and it's making it hard for you to comment - which makes you look worse. Not better.
So comment on the content, and make me happy, or admit it's fluff and respond to EP's accusation.
Or keep ducking and weaving, I suppose.

[Thor665]

Dude, I've been in one game with an alliance and the alliance helped scum win. Could you give me some references for 'successful alliances' (more than one). I still don't see the big advantage to it that isn't intrinsically possible through just getting town reads and discussing your thoughts with them in thread.

[Thor665]

I'll read through Werewolf and get back to you.
As a question - that game ended basically over a year ago - have you no Alliance attempt games since then? If not, what drew you into trying an Alliance now and not in the interim?

[Thor665]

Mod - V/LA - May 19-22

[Thor665]

@MoS - How do you define active lurk, do you feel it is scummy, and how do you feel your play differs from active lurk (if at all)?

[Thor665]

As for my play, I'm going to turn that question back on you, as I feel your answer will reveal a lot about your alignment. Do you feel I have been active lurking?

I feel your scumhunting has been exceedingly limited and laid back. I'm attempting to discern if it's because;
a) You're scum hoping not to offend and be obligated to take stances.
b) Town who suxx0rs.
I do find the lack of participation and active scumhunting to be anti-town, and find that paired with backhanded dismissal of people for being 'too active' to be scummy.

[Thor665]

So...you don't think I was active lurking?

By my definition - yes.
By your definition - no.

[Thor665]

An ani trade for Magua? Yes, thank you.

My head hurts - we're finally starting to get out of RVS after forever and a day in it, and it still feels sloppy and weak. I'm actually against a deadline extension - 4 days is plenty if people would just consolidate and focus a bit more and not have wasted over a week in RVS.

Town points for MBF simply because something like 3 or so players are now riding the 'Thor is teh t0wnz an' we luvz him!' wagon, and MBF is still content to be half brain dead and go 'lol, lynch Thor'. I hate his play and his avatar's face, but that looks like town play...unoptimal town play, but I'll take what I can get.
In a similar vein I agree with Magua's call on RC - thank you, I needed that.

Unvote: danakillsu
Vote: Ragnarokio

I can do this, let's have one non-poster help kill another.
I'm not really feeling that Ant wagon, Magua - sorry. I actually support his desire to kill the non-posters and the rest of your case appears to be gut.
I don't like the MBF wagon and call it town v. town

[Thor665]

I'm quite serious here. You jumping on Ragnarokio for being a "non-poster" is...well, it's just so terrible I can't even come up with a witty retort about how terrible it is.

I'm sorry, you know how forgetful I can be about that rule that the only way to be town is to sheep you. Remind me again later.

MBF wagon? Do you mean Reaper? Otherwise, I have no *idea* what you mean by "MBF wagon" as there is *no* MBF wagon. Unless you meant the MBF wagon at the start of the day, in which case, I would be tempted to agree, except who was on that, let's see, animorpherv1, Thor665, ooba, Ragnarokio, and who are you voting now, Ragna...waitaminute.

...
...
...
What the hell Magua? Seriously, you're going to get so confused about me calling a single vote a 'wagon' that you're going to spiral into this? One vote = wagon, now go re-read everything, take a chill pill, and reassess.

I'm not really feeling that Ant wagon, Magua - sorry. I actually support his desire to kill the non-posters

For that matter, there's no Ant wagon at this point either. You say you support MBF's desire to kill non-posters. How about Energetic Penguin instead of ATTM then? I'm fine with that.

Pedantic obsession about use of the word 'wagon' aside I actually said I supported Ant's desire, not MBF's. I could do an EP lynch, I don't have the town vibe from him I have for Ant. Why are you so against a Raggy lynch though? You just screamed and dismissed it, but I was willing to say why I didn't like your case.

Thor. Your vote on Ragnarokio sucks and smacks *highly* of OMGUS. Don't ruin my townread on you like this.

Really, OMGUS? If that's the level of your read I don't care if you change opinions on me as you clearly still need to get a better read anyway.

[Thor665]

MarchHare
ReaperCharlie
danakillsu
ChannelDelibird

If any of the above players request an extension, they should than also include an explanation of why they're dorking around on single vote wagons and not screaming at us more or attempting to consolidate and move functionally towards a lynch.
I'm not voting extension.

[Thor665]

1. Ragnarokio is capable of playing well (evidence, evidence, evidence).

2. Scum want to fly under the radar, not make waves.

3. Ragnarokio goes out of her way to troll/provoke (evidence, evidence, evidence).

Well, I'll note that 2/3 of you showing her scumhunting is a tree she was barking up while apparently not understanding what I was saying at all, and that 1005 of her trolling does not appear to be for any sort of scumhunting purpose. #2 is a decent point insomuch as she's definitely avoided much appeasement and your #3 points feed back into it. Not sold, but let's see how much play this compromise candidate gets?

Unvote: Ragnarokio
Vote: Energetic Penguin

It's new, it's fresh, it's fueled by fear of having no lynch after two weeks of half the player base not even trying to get a lynch, come one come all!

@Rag - why should it go somewhere again? I thought you were mostly sheeping Magua suddenly with no real clear buildup from yourself...did I miss something?

[Thor665]

and that

100%

of her trolling does not appear

[Thor665]

Mod - correction V/LA - actual dates are May 12-15, I suck - my bad

[Thor665]

Dana and EP are both fine wagons. I'm pretty on the RC wagon.

@ooba - what sort of jump from one wagon to another isn't atrocious in your mind? You called me for the same thing and now left me to vote RC for that tell...does that make your jump atrocious or not? Last I checked vote hopping wasn't a scumtell, yeah?

[Thor665]

@ooba - do you think dana didn't sound scummy?

[Thor665]

Awww, this game.

Okay, let's wagon 'em on up.

Vote: Ragnarokio

[Thor665]

@Del - I looked but couldn't get a clear enough picture that wasn't soaked in wine.

@ooba - why are you so confused?

[Thor665]

I'm really excited to see all the information these re-reads will generate.
Really.
Excited.

[Thor665]

Has anything she's said this game made sense?

@Rag - what info did you get from your town gambit of pushing a lynch in a scummy manner?

[Thor665]

@Rag - the Ant push you just specifically addressed whereupon you were attacking him in order to garner reactions for data.

[Thor665]

@Thor- I like the investigative questions. However, how about a

little

lot of opinion on the game, players, actions, etc?

You're saying I haven't been doing this, or you want a recap, or what? I haven't been fond of wallposting for quite a while now.

[Thor665]

@Pere, here's my recap of the lynch, the nightkill, and what's going on today. ::deep breath::

EP is dead, he was town, probably at least one player on that wagon is scum and I'm betting Rag.
ReaperCharlie is dead, he was town, I tend to suspect he was killed more for general town goodness than a particular pushed case though might reappraise that after a few more flips.
I am wondering why you're not voting Rag.

Anything else?

[Thor665]

Reads on all remaining living players, and what actions or words helped to develop that read.

I'll give you this.

danakillsu - Null
Channeldelibird - Town
Ant_to_the_max - Null
PerigrineV - Null
Mastermind of Sin* - Null
Thor665 - Handsome
mikeburnfire - Town
Ragnarokio - Scum
ooba - Scum
Magua - Town
Empking* - Scum

I refuse to spend the time to justify every read I currently have to the level you just requested it. If you can justify why I need to do so when you haven't asked anyone else to do so I'll consider it. Until then - no.

The better question is, why are you voting Rag? You used "probably" and "betting" to pick Rag out of the lineup. Can you give a case I can get behind before asking me to vote him?

Sorry, I'm not 100% sure of my read. You can sit around and wait for a cop to claim if it makes you happy, or you can sheep me.

[Thor665]

Empking actually comes 100% from MarchHare for reasons already stated - for the slot I have a scum read, for the player I have nothing.
Magua and Delbird are there for active scumhunting and logic use I see, understand, and agree with.

[Thor665]

We're grinding down here quite a bit - I think a few more people need to grow a set and lob there votes out there for everyone to see. No need hiding from a PR who might have you figured out, you'll be caught anyway.

[Thor665]

@Magua - a page from Benmage there, eh?
The problem is, it's not even you - there are people who still haven't even voted today. It's creeping me the frell out.

[Thor665]

You just wait until I use my govern D4.

[Thor665]

Peregrine, I will second the request for you to vote someone - we have 28 pages and a couple of flips, I'm pretty sure we're at least out of the RVS by this stage.

[Thor665]

Gah, fine MBF. SHe's still useless though

Unvote: Ragnarokio
Vote: Danakillsu

[Thor665]

Would you prefer that I sheep Thor on his vote on you?

[Thor665]

I agree with Magua that the game was stagnating, I'd even said as much myself prior to his vote switchup.

Dana didn't even comment upon my blatant and awkward vote switch to him - I'm happy with that vote now.

[Thor665]

Maybe your expectation of me is too high?

It wasn't that you weren't frantic, it's that you didn't diss me at all. Do you have evidence of your self meta about this policy of "not to try[ing] to defend against a case that isn't there". If I was supposed to be aware of it I must have lost the memo, because I wasn't aware of it.

[Thor665]

Does one game really make a meta case?

By the by, why are you still on Rag. MBF looks pretty town to me and you don't have an alternate sad lurk-sack on the last lynch to pursue? Why is she best?

[Thor665]

Gah, fine MBF. SHe's still useless though

Unvote: Ragnarokio
Vote: Danakillsu

o.O what?

What?
Seriously - you're confused, but you don't clarify the confusion which makes me wonder if you're acting confused just so you can quote something and act like what I'm doing is bad/scummy or if you actually have a question about my actions. Considering I'm even responding to a request made by me, maybe you should go read that and then see if my post still makes no sense.
Or just derpy, derp along and see if that helps, yeah?

Huh? So people are supposed to talk shit about everyone who votes them? When did this become protown play?

If you're town and someone votes you on Day 2 without saying why, you consider it protown to not ask about said vote?

Add that to the voting block PeregrineV pointed out earlier, and I'm really liking the Thor-dana connection a LOT.

So you're seriously advocating that three scum are voting in a block on multiple votes on Day 1? How often do you see that happen in a mini?

[Thor665]

I actually have no idea what point ooba was even trying to make.

[Thor665]

I don't get why you would change your vote just based on that. You gave absolutely no reasoning for it. Hence the o.O

Well, he's a really strong town read, and I love crumbs, so what the heck? It's not like there aren't other equally useless/scummy players we could lynch today, even on the wagon.

Asking about it is one thing. That's not what you said, though. You said "it's that you didn't diss me at all"...that's different. I still think dana is scummy, but your expectations don't make any sense. They just seem to be superfluous attacks to look like you're doing something.

I consider questioning a case to be an attack on a case. A more polite attack, sure, but the end result is the same - you're calling the case into question and trying to force the other person to justify their stance. Dana had zero desire to do that towards me.
For my reason to be on the dana wagon - gut and PoE. Of course, that's almost all of my cases in every game, but at least I'm reliable.

I'm not 100% sure if you're all scum, but there is something fishy going on here. Magua's connections seems to be the scummiest, though, which is why I'm voting him. Lynching any of you will give important information, though.

Lynching anyone gives info. I'm asking why you think the scum team would have 3 members voting in near lockstep multiple times yesterday and if you see that happen very often. If you do, I'd be curious to see examples, if you don't I'm curious why you think the scumteam is doing it this time. I may be dissing your case, fyi


Emp hopping on the Rag wagon at this stage clarifies my desire to see him dead as well. Him or dana are pretty happy in my books.
MoI now looks townish for the first time since game start. Pretty neutral on his Magua push, I'd rather Magua get investigated or something as I think he's actually useful if he's town and don't want to lynch him off of a weird gut case that hinges on me being scum with him.
Dana should provide scumhunting evidence, I'm pretty sure all of his recent posts have been defense, deflection, and...distancing? Derping? Oh, dancing! Yeah, that works. Dancing around without actually scumhunting at all.

[Thor665]

Emp hopping on the Rag wagon at this stage clarifies my desire to see him dead as well.

Why?

Why not?

But, to be frank, I see nothing in the Rag case that isn't equally applicable to you. Yet you think she's a good lynch. Bleh.

[Thor665]

Your only reason for voting her is lack of reads advanced? You think that should make you look better?

[Thor665]

@Emp - ...bwuh? You...I...I'm happier with you being lynched right now, and you just made me happier yet.

@MoS - So our big scum move is saving dana and Magua is the smart lynch? Bwuh?

[Thor665]

Your only reason for voting her is lack of reads advanced?

Mind rephrasing that?

You pointed out that the way she was different is that she wasn't presenting many scum reads and also no town reads.
Ergo - your only reason voting her is lack of reads advanced?

I'll look at Rag's mini wall later. I only skipped ahead to see what she said about me and didn't read anything else, so I really can't comment there, but I suspect I'll want to.

[Thor665]

@Rag - Pretty much when I read all that wall what I get is "I don't have reads on anyone, except maybe Ant and a gut town read on Pere. Whoop-dee-doo.
You've also correctly identified that I play differently Day 2+ from how I play Day 1. I submit - doesn't everyone? It's kinda the point of Day 1.

@Emp - So...yes, then. yeah, you're still scummy for that. How do you feel about her scumminess considering the following two things.
1. How she has now presented a wall of her reads?
2. How she, reasonably accurately I feel, has pointed out that I, and probably some others, haven't been constant and crystal clear in expressing our reads.

[Thor665]

@Rag - you're starting up a meta case on me while admitting lack of awareness of my meta. If you want it to stick don't you owe it to yourself to go research a handful of recent games I've been in to see whether or not I have a playstyle shift.

I'm playing the way I am right now because right now we have infinitely more information than we had Day 1.

and most of your reads are null - you blathered a lot on them but when you say stuff like Town/scum...well, that means you've got jack all as a read on that player. aka - null.

[Thor665]

You aren't pushing any cases. You're still just sitting around prodding at random things, for the most part. Same as day 1, you're just being less aggressive about it.

Yeah, no.

[Thor665]

@dana - along with Rag dinging me for not being after people that last comment really ranks up there on the 'is no one reading my posts today' meter.

I'm pretty sure I started the Rag rampage today. I'm now not voting her. I think that's a sign of something. Hopefully of personal brilliance, but I'm still sure it's a sign of something.

I'm still against the Magua wagon, it doesn't feel right.
I have no opinion on the Ant wagon because I suxx0rs. Maybe later today I'll try to un-suxx0r. He feels scummy but I don't grok the actual reason for the lynch and that leaves me befuddled on it.
Rag wagon, and the people just now noticing that mbf looks town all suxx0r waaaaay more than i do though, so that's a bonus.

[Thor665]

@Magua - I went back and looked, and your Ant case appears to be "gut" and nothing else. WTF?

[Thor665]

Unvote: danakillsu
Vote; Magua

Boats.
Are rocked.

[Thor665]

Vote: Magua

Semi-colon; not to be clever.

[Thor665]

I agree with MoS donk of that ooba case, it's a solid point.

Unvote: Magua
Vote: danakillsu

Magua still looks town to me, dana looks opportunistic, I need to read Ant because there's still no actual Ant=scum case so I guess I have to research Antscum.
I'm strongly against a Magua lynch at this stage, I support a dana lynch, I'm...well, I'm still really neutral on the Ant lynch. It feels like a 'kill a weak player' lynch, and if we were doing that I'd personally pick Empking over Ant. Bleh, I'll read him. I'd love it if the Magua wagon dissolved into slime though, I actually think there was a lot of town building that thing up, but I think it's not a good one.

[Thor665]

Thor, we've got 20 hours. That's not enough time to jumpstart the Dana wagon. Are you purposefully throwing your vote away?

It was tied as biggest wagon when I got off it - I do feel it's a viable wagon to make happen still...and now with the Ant business even more so.

As stated, am not a fan of Magua wagon. I'll buy Ant's shenanigans as stated for now (I'll be happy with a copping on ooba too, that makes life easier) CDB is a jerk, but dana is a good lynch. C'mon boys!

[Thor665]

That got exciting. I just showed up to be potential Mjolnir on anything.

I'm actually fine with the softclaim - a claim of verifiable PR is a pretty potent claim, and isn't all that soft. He'll either verify and be cleared or fall short and be dead. yeah, we might be leaving a scum PR alive for a bit but I'm more than willing to roll the dice on that as I'm pretty meh on the lynch of MoS anyway - most of the flap about him appeared to be centering on Ant, and his refutation of the Ant connection case was solid and was never addressed.

I'm clinging to my Magua as town read though, I really doubt scum would behave like that all things considered. I am reminded yet again why I hate Empking. The fish avatar is apropos as he's just flopping around and I feel no connective reasoning for any of his votes. MBF can remain town. I'm happy with the dana lynch, apparently I'm the only one, but since happiness is a fungible resource so much the better for me.

[Thor665]

Could you outline where you see Pere defending dana in Day 1 so I can get a feel for the case there? I seem to recall him helping sell dana Day 2. Also - since you're a proclaimed fluff nut for this, how "high ranking" is Stavros in the scheme of the villain team?

I'm leaning MoS at the moment, I think. He was definitely lobbing some mud at the dana case on Day 2 during the early stages and trying to pick at the logic while it was just me sort of standing in a corner.

Killed has to be anti-town considering Ant cleared ooba (and ooba was fairly obv. town anyway).
I'm guessing assassinated is too as I can't buy a Vig being dumb enough to shoot both RC and Magua.

I guess they're both doc hunting.

13 alive to start. 1 scum flip thus far, 8 alive now. I'm guessing an SK (assassinated?) and scum (killed). Certainly due to the lack of a kill Night 1 one of the scum factions (killed) was on top of the doctor situation. This bears out with their chosen kill of ooba, as they're recognizing fear of a Doc. Odds are two scum left, plus SK third party, which means we're functionally in a pseudo mylo *right now*.

Ant is highly unlikely to be scum unless scum is the assissinated team, and kill is the SK. I'm sticking to trusting him for now.

@EP - please be useful, you're confirmed town now, I expect a mega explosion of awesome from you!
@CDB - I expect a replace out or a mega explosion of awesome from you too - unless you'd like to claim scum.

I'd like to get some feedback thoughts on my mylo mutterings. Something feels janky here and I'd like some more thoughts, I'm not happy with my current conclusions.

[Thor665]

No, why should I?

Why'd you ask for his night results?

[Thor665]

I guess I could feel better if it's a two man scummorz and a single SK. I still feel janky, but less scared at that thought.

[Thor665]

....go read his first post of the day and then come back and tell me your answer again.

[Thor665]

[Thor665]

Why is ant probably town, thor?

A serial killer and a scumteam in a 13 player game seems too fast. I think LyLo would be day 2 under those conditions.

I already outlined how it could work. Congratulations on not contributing anything.

@Pere - what a wonderful graph...with no conclusions. Congratulations on not contributing anything.

@CDB - thank you for the promise of eventually contributing something.

@MoI - oh dear gawd show up and fulfill yourself and react to my call!

In other news, I hate you all.

[Thor665]

I hadn't seriously considered Thor until the dana flip. He voted Dana early jokingly and stays on him for a long time without reason. Then, when the wagons started to heat up, he unvoted and went after Rag and Penguin. Day 2 he went after Rag, then randomly dana for no reason, THEN says that he thinks dana is strongly town (even though he is voting him). He keeps saying that his vote on dana is "Gut", but then he says Magua's gut vote is so suspicious that he votes Magua. However, he then vote dana again, who didn't have many votes. Dana seemed to get really defensive when RC linked him to Thor, which might explain why he was killed. And Dana gets really upset when I don't answer his Thor question. Overall, there's a lot to answer for here.

I think you're confusing "I don't understand his play" with "his play is scummy" You certainly drastically misunderstood the Magua vote, and also are showing an inability to read how the wagons happened and what my vote on dana, when it happened at the end of yesterday, means.

Ask some questions and I'll clarify - but the short answer is "open your eyes, I'm so freakin' obv. town it's silly...also my beard is waaay too sexy to be legal"

Frankly most of your suspicions are, right at the moment, premature and silly. We need more activity and more information before we start galloping whole hog at claimed PRs.

Question

Finally - please quote where I called dana strong town while I was voting him - I don't recall that part. Quote or die in a fire as a horrible misrepresenting fool whom I will kill.

@Rag - I did correct myself to a 2 scum team as being less scary. You have continued to say nothing though, so congratulations on that. Who is your top suspect currently?

[Thor665]

Ant defended dana from MoS Here. Worth noting. If your cop claim is true, then I'm willing to bet that you visited Peregrene last night. Am I correct?

If Pere *and* MBF are town than I want it on record that our loss was based off of town not reading anything and drawing conclusions with no meaning.
If even one of them is town I may still claim this.

[Thor665]

@Rag - if you fail to understand what someone says on the first readthrough - read twice. He was really quite obvious. Also, MBF missed an entire discussion people had about Ant's target, so...

Your 'question' was "Why is Ant highly likely town" which isn't what I said at all, also I stated my reasons already - here they are again;
Ant is highly unlikely to be scum unless scum is the assissinated team, and kill is the SK. I'm sticking to trusting him for now.

Are you advocating that one of the killers is not scum? Because if you think 2 scum + SK is bad for scum, and 3 scum + SK is too powerful for scum, than you must be advancing that one of the kills is Vig. Which flavor do you believe is a pro-town kill?

[Thor665]

@Ant - please confirm MoS.

@Anyone who thinks Maua was a Vig kill - if you *really* think the Vig killed likely scum Magua and likely scum Reaper Charlie...let me know. I want to lynch you for being worthless. RC was fairly obv. town on Day 1 and Magua at least had a solid argument for being town because he was playing the worst game ever if he was scum and was also a counter wagon to scum!

@Vig - if you're really a Vig I HATE you. I will tell you who to "assassinate" with you "Vig" powers at the end of day today if you can't figure it out on your own. You need to work harder on this fake Vig claim you'll want to use later.

Thor, you aren't confirmed town, and I will continue to suspect you up until you are. Deal with it.[/quote
I'm not confirmed town. I am obvious town. Keep up

Finally - please quote where I called dana strong town while I was voting him

The "he" in that post is YOU because of your CRUMB (not that it was that subtle, but hey. The clue that it was YOU was that I specifically cited you in the post I unvoted Rag in, and then voted dana. I then continue with the comment "It's not like there

aren't other equally useless/scummy players

we could lynch today" almost as though I'm calling dana useless and scummy - much like Rag who I am unvoting because I have a town read on some player dropping crumbs as a reason for unvoting Rag.

Try to keep up.

Ant's claim seemed desperate, to out the real cop. Wouldn't surprise me if the real cop is still hiding.

Then real cop is someone else I kind of hate right now. Today would be the counterclaim day, also the counter result reveal day.

How confident are you in still clearing Rag based on trust in you?

[Thor665]

@Ant - please confirm MoS.

@Anyone who thinks Maua was a Vig kill - if you *really* think the Vig killed likely scum Magua and likely scum Reaper Charlie...let me know. I want to lynch you for being worthless. RC was fairly obv. town on Day 1 and Magua at least had a solid argument for being town because he was playing the worst game ever if he was scum and was also a counter wagon to scum!

@Vig - if you're really a Vig I HATE you. I will tell you who to "assassinate" with you "Vig" powers at the end of day today if you can't figure it out on your own. You need to work harder on this fake Vig claim you'll want to use later.

Thor, you aren't confirmed town, and I will continue to suspect you up until you are. Deal with it.

I'm not confirmed town. I am obvious town. Keep up

Finally - please quote where I called dana strong town while I was voting him

The "he" in that post is YOU because of your CRUMB (not that it was that subtle, but hey. The clue that it was YOU was that I specifically cited you in the post I unvoted Rag in, and then voted dana. I then continue with the comment "It's not like there

aren't other equally useless/scummy players

we could lynch today" almost as though I'm calling dana useless and scummy - much like Rag who I am unvoting because I have a town read on some player dropping crumbs as a reason for unvoting Rag.

Try to keep up.

Ant's claim seemed desperate, to out the real cop. Wouldn't surprise me if the real cop is still hiding.

Then real cop is someone else I kind of hate right now. Today would be the counterclaim day, also the counter result reveal day.

How confident are you in still clearing Rag based on trust in you?

[Thor665]

Going back and looking at dana I think I feel better about MoS and Pere now. Pere moreso. MoS I'm holding off till I see Ant clarify his clearing.

"Better" also being insomuch as their alignment. I'd still like them both to pick up their game a bit more

[Thor665]

@MoS - welcome to the NOT READING THE GAME AT ALL PARTY. Please go to Page 1, and look at all the kills together, and than discover the magic that is kill flavor.

@Everyone - some of these terrible players are town - STOP IT!

[Thor665]

Wait - you're not confused about it being an anti-town kill, you're confused by me saying the Vig killed them when I'M BLATANTLY ANSWERING RAG'S THEORY ABOUT HOW THE VIG KILLED THEM AND YOU FOS ME FOR THAT

ARRRRGH, I'M IN FULL ON CAPSLAWK RAGE NOW! WHAY HAVE YOU DONE THIS TO ME?

tl:dr - hate you all.

[Thor665]

while I'd guess the Magua kill is either vig or sk.

Magua kill is either vig or sk.

vig or sk.

WAIT, IT WASN'T RAG AT ALL, IT WAS YOU!
EXPLAIN THAT FOS OR I WILL BE CAPSLAWK ALL FRIGGIN' DAY I KID YOU NOT - I HAVE NO SOCIAL SKILLS!

[Thor665]

What makes you so sure RC was killed by the vig/sk and not mafia?

while I'd guess the Magua kill is either vig or sk.

FOS MoI?

Even putting them side by side makes no sense, maybe I'm supposed to read them backwards or something?

I swear - the VERY NEXT poster who posts ANYTHING resembling common sense or proving that they have read the game thus far I will call town and tunnel them as town for the rest of the entire game. Seriously, do it, I dare you. Make me the happiest man alive.

[Thor665]

ANT CONFIRM MOS!!!

[Thor665]

I have a way to confirm my role tonight

RAAAAGE, SO FULL OF RAGE. NEIGHBORIZER!?! RAAAAAAGE!

ALSO, YOU WEREN'T FOSING ME FOR NOT FIGURING OUT KILL FLAVORS - YOU SPECIFICALLY ASKED ME WHY I WAS SO SURE THAT KILL WAS THE VIG/SK KILL AND FOSED ME FOR THAT...WHEN YOU HAD LITERALLY JUST DONE THE SAME THING. HOW WAS IT SCUMMY WHEN I DID IT, HOW, EXPLAIN, EXPLAIN NOW, THE CAPS COMPEL YOU!

[Thor665]

@Ant - when did you become neighbors? Night or daystart. This is relevant.

[Thor665]

The game's not out of the bag, but it's probably not in the bag either. However, the game is most assuredly aware of the bag.
You had to live - claimed cop, dead RBer, and at least one killing role (almost assuredly the scum) is aware that there is a protective role afoot.

I want to see MoS clarify his FoS business, than I'll have some thoughts about what's what, who I think is town, who I think is a good lynch, and (invariably) much more muttering about suboptimal play moves.

Why'd you sell out his PR specifically?

[Thor665]

Empking- cop result (if there is a vig, I think he would be the best target to check imo)

...wait, whut?

@Rag - oh dear gawd, do I actually need to spell this out for you? Okay - fine. There are two killing roles.
On Night 1 one of the killing roles (not assassinated, the other one, I'm not going back to check it's flavor) either no killed or, more likely, discovered there is a doc/protective role.
On Day 2 Ant claims cop.
Now - he's not likely to be the secondary kill role because, if he's the kill role that whiffed its shot he knows there's another killer out there - so if he's scum/SK he just made himself a BIG target for the other killing role.
He's not likely to be the assassinated role either, because at the time of claiming he had no way of knowing there was a protective role or another killing role, so he's really ballsy to be claiming "kill me please" role on Day 2 at that stage as it's asking to get him dead.

If you understand now - please contribute ANYTHING to the game. Or just keep pedantically poking around thinking something is strange with spotting how the cop is fairly likely to be a cop at this stage.

[Thor665]

Empking- cop result (if there is a vig, I think he would be the best target to check imo)

?

An Empking post I can agree with, has logic, and suggests he is reading the game! Huzzah, you can be perma-town!

[Thor665]

Oh, also, I'm leaning town on MoS now OooooooWHEEEEEooooo!

@MikeyB - why are you almost certainly town? I'd love to rule you off my 'want to kill with fire' list. Please help.

[Thor665]

@Thor- Did you somewhere point out the simplest explanation? 3 mafia and a one-shot town vig that missed?

Pretty much what other people said.

If he thought Ant was lying scum he should have shot Ant.
If he thought Ant was the cop he should have shot at, well, someone the cop hadn't cleared yet as opposed to going "lol, GF hunting" and just stupidly blowing away someone who, even if there is a GF in the game, is still statistically far more likely to be town than scum.
If the Vig is 1 shot I *hate* the Vig.

@Rag - .... (<---this is what I see when I read your posts)

@MBF - why is MoS more and more scummy seeming? Also, why are you town?

@Those against the flavor claim - is there a really obvious Doc flavor claim in this show?

[Thor665]

@MBF - also, please reaffirm town feel for Rag.

[Thor665]

@Emp - your current read on MBF and Rag?

[Thor665]

I see pure awesome, scumhunting, pressure of suspects, explanation of clearing players I'm calling town, and the sexiest beard this side of ZZ Top.

What do you see when you read your posts?

[Thor665]

::headdesk::

Wait, so MBF - you're a Vig who also started the game as a neighbor to Rag? Plese do a clear and concise full claim so I understand this.

@Rag - PROTIP - YOU'RE *ALREADY* CLUTTERING THE THREAD...WITH FLUFF POSTINGS!

So, when did you and Rag become neighbors?

[Thor665]

Guys, I killed ReaperCharlie and Magua. I'm sorry. I'm the vig, and I'm terrible at it.

I will say this is pretty blatant flinging of town sweat from pores. SK would be dumb as hell to claim kills that weak and to claim killing role this early.

[Thor665]

@Ant - did all of that qualify as explaining why you called for a Vig shot on a player you cleared via investigation? Because I'm still not 'getting it' if that is the case.

[Thor665]

And so you wanted the Vig to kill him prior to killing someone you hadn't scanned?

[Thor665]

Guys, I killed

ReaperCharlie and Magua

.

Don't mean to be a stickler here MBF, but

why did you assassinate on night1 and kill on night2

?

Energetic Penguin: Lester Patel (Vanilla Townie) Lynched Day 1.

ReaperCharlie

: "Big" Mike Tucker(Vanilla Townie)

assassinated

Night 1.
danakillsu: Stavros Demetrios (Mafia Roleblocker) Lynched Day 2

Magua

: General Beckman (Vanilla Townie),

assassinated

Night 2
oboe: Anna Wu (Vanilla Townie), killed Night 2

In this game, Thor is the only one who reads, it is a proven.

@Empking - you want to kill MBF or Rag? Do you think they're scum together or that they're equally likely one of the alternate scum team potentials, or what? I feel like this kill list came out of nowhere with no justification for its existence. Second question - what do you think of my reasoning that MBF is town?

[Thor665]

I don't think they're scum together but I don't think this is an example of a two town neighbourhood.

Shouldn't that make our top two Rag/MoS? As the neighborizers they're the suspect ones, yeah?

[Thor665]

I don't think they're scum together but I don't think this is an example of a two town neighbourhood.

Shouldn't that make our top two Rag/MoS? As the neighborizers they're the suspect ones, yeah?

Wow, somebody hasn't been reading the thread.

MBF was neighbourized by Rag, he has always been

neighbours

with Rag.

Actually I thought you were implying both neighborizers couldn't be town.
So you're going with both players in that particular neighborhood can't be town? ...why?

@Pere - My presumption was no Vig would be that full of fail. Considering how he went with his claim I'm more neutral on him at the moment, he wasn't exactly at risk, and it felt more like he claimed because everyone was bashing his choices - which makes his claim more town motivated than scum motivated. I've said this before.

[Thor665]

But there aren't two neighbourizers. At least that's what MBF said.

(Note to self: If Rag turns out to be a neighbourizer then she and Thor are 100% scum buddies)

Touche' I haven't been reading either.
Though if she turns out to be a neighborizer than she couldn't have been always neighbors with MBF and he'd be more likely scum with her than I - derpy doo.

Why do you think neighbors is too much power?

[Thor665]

Yeah, but it's neighbors - probably the most useless ability in the game.
Though...

@MBF - Did you base your targets off of ideas presented by Rag paired with your own thoughts? Since she was scumhunting and all, i presume even if you didn't tell her you were a Vig you took in some of that excellent consideration she was doing, yeah?

[Thor665]

@Empking

Wht do you think makes more sense balance wise;

A SK with a neighbor of a town so he can...influence town somewhat?
or
Scum with a neighborhood of a Vig so they can...influence a second kill?
or
Vig and town so they can...not trust each other and maybe target kills better?

The most overpowered one I see is Scum having an in with the Vig, not Vig having an in with town. What am I missing?

[Thor665]

@Emp - Why do you believe MoS as town neighborizer?

[Thor665]

Why did it take three posts to get you to answer my question?

Since I "answered" your question by quoting myself answering it before you asked it - I'll guess 'annoyed frustration at useless slot'? Am I right? How's this for a shocker - how about you draw a conclusion from the interaction, or any interaction. It might shock me to death and spare you the lynch.

Mod - CDB's last post was 2 days and 15 hours ago from this post. Verifying that a 48 hour replacement after a 48 hour prod that should have already happened is in effect, yes/no?

@MBF - you've already full claimed and are still holding back on Rag clearing info, what the frell? Do you not notice me tunneling her and becoming more and more annoyed as she appears to maintain the useless meta she's had since Day 1 that has been clearly aggravating me. If you can clear her practically, that will give us you, her, Ant, and Emp as a town nexus. That seems advantageous. Do you really see being coy about this as an advantage considering Emp, a confimrmed town, and Thor a apparently-not-obvious-at-all-though-bewildered-why-he-isn't town are sniffing around her?

I think I'm leaning towards a lynch Pere and MBF shoots either CDB or MoS.

[Thor665]

@MBF - you've already full claimed

Have I?

[Thor665]

Actually;

Vote: MBF

After that bit of bull-hooey I want a full claim out of him.

[Thor665]

I admit wholeheartedly I am fishing.

If he's a Vig+ I want to know now so I can assess now.

[Thor665]

@MoS - allow me to spell it out for you;

MBF: Hai guiz! Imma Vig! Here's who I shot!
Thor: Ah, okay, that's interesting...well, now that we know you're a Vig we-
MBF: Hai guiz, Imma also neib0rz!!!
Thor: Oh...okay...well, that's a little odd. Right, so, anyway, now that you've full claimed we-
MBF: Hai guiz! Imma also have sekret speshul powahs I'mma not claim yet!
Thor: ...

If he's town he's already got scum going wtflolomg just for being a Vig (albeit a terrible one at targeting) because he's dangerous to them.
So his full claim won't make him any more or less of a priority target because a Vig is already a BIG thing.
However, I am NOT comfortable with a three power role, and very much believe he owes us a full claim at this stage as he's already gone this far, and has his useless neighbor claiming he's conf. town at this stage.
How about you vote him too, and we'll get a claim out of him, yeah?

[Thor665]

Thank gawd.

@Rag - Yes. Do you see a pro-town angle to him playing coy with what his role powers may/may not be at this stage? If you do, fill me in. He can't be trying to draw a kill *more* and there's no point in trying to draw a kill less. Maybe I'm just dumb - you should clue me in.

[Thor665]

@dram - other than Rag I think you're spot on with MBF and people's opinions of him (I hope)

Somewhere in your conclusions you gakked up pretty bad though, because I'm not scum.
Check your alignment in your PM again and get back to me.

[Thor665]

We could also take you up to L-1, yeah? Request a full claim, play that fun game. I think I can do it.

@dram - yo, let's help the SK dig a deeper hole, take him to L-1 for claim demand - I promise cookies once we get there.

[Thor665]

Anyone pushing MBF to get at the information he's witholding is still being ridiculous. MBF knows what information he's witholding. He says that the information would hurt the town if he released it. What reason do you think he'd have for lying? Incompetence? He KNOWS what information he has. you don't, he actually has the ability to judge it's effect on the game upon release, where as you don't.

Then he shouldn't have hinted at its existence.
That's the beginning, middle, and end of the argument. He was believed, he was thought of as not a lynch, he was already drawing kills from scum, I was discussing lynching other people and directing his kill and..."supah sekret not yet full claimed!" Ah...no, no that doesn't work.

[Thor665]

Why would town do that?

[Thor665]

The town intention is still to protect me.

By revealing he hasn't full claimed yet?
Naaaah.

[Thor665]

@Rag - That's awesome.
Now we're getting the full claim out of him.
Because the Vig/Neighbor/? needs to be made something town doesn't want to kill.
That would be pro-town, yeah?

@Pere - I'd be fine with a sudden speed hammer, but I play differently sometimes. How about we start with a claim and move forward?

[Thor665]

@Rag - First off, you're coming with your "incredibly likely he is town" angle from a very strange bubble that no one else can apparently see. Ockham's Razor suggests you're the one with the skewed perspective.
Second, he was going to be obv. town up until he dropped the hint. You have not been able to explain why he dropped that hint that he hadn't fullclaimed yet. There was no reason, at all, to drop that hint for pro-town benefit. You weren't going to be lynch, no one was seriously getting a wagon together for your lynch, and the same can be said about MBF - we were mocking him for being fail vig, but everyone and their uncle was willing to give him another night.

Than he dropped a role hint and threw the WHOLE think into lolomgwtf-ville for no reason whatsoever.

Maybe you're right, maybe he is town, and this reveal will hurt us. But it's HIS fault for dropping the hint, and I don't trust him enough as town to not hear what the whole hint is at this stage now that he's pulled this gak.

[Thor665]

Quite frankly, I can't believe how ridiculous this has gotten. Dram and Thor are either idiots or scum, perhaps both. We're here, trying to figure out who the scum are, and I tell you that I have information that implies that Rag is town. Suddenly, you bring the game to a standstill until I full claim. If this game really is "stalling", it's because you're stalling it.

We're voting you because you claimed you hadn't full claimed. i don't want to hear anything about Rag's role and am not asking for anything about Rag's role - I'm asking for the rest of your claim that you hinted you had and now you're trying to change the conversation to suggest the whole thing was somehow about Rag's role.

Straight up - full claim everything about your role, what is so difficult about this?

[Thor665]

I think thor is scummier than peregrine.

Please explain Day 2 and how I'm scum.
Kthxbai.

[Thor665]

@MBF - you already indicated you would ignore me, that's why we're going to lynch you if you don't full claim your role. Try to keep up.

[Thor665]

@Ant, are you willing to hammer MBF? Because if so you should say so because he needs to know he should claim.

@MBF, how come Rag is doing all the defending of your "protown" act of dropping a further claim hint about your role? Why don't you explain to me how what you did was pro town and stop acting like I'm asking you to claim Rag's role.

[Thor665]

@Ant - I'm fine with massclaim if MBF goes first. Why do you want a massclaim?

[Thor665]

@MoS - would you like to state intent to hammer MBF so we can get his fullclaim?

[Thor665]

So how about you offer to hammer MBF if he doesn't start with the claiming, than we'll even let him popcorn it around to the few remaining unclaimed people.
If he refuses to go along with the mass claim we can always just lynch him, and at that stage I think it'd be a good move.
Game?

[Thor665]

@MBF, how come Rag is doing all the defending of your "protown" act of dropping a further claim hint about your role? Why don't you explain to me how what you did was pro town and stop acting like I'm asking you to claim Rag's role.

Thor can't read.

I can't give you anymore information without giving away Rag's role

Maybe I can't read, but maybe you keep changing your tune too. DO YOU RECALL WHEN I SAID (ABOUT 4-5 TIMES NOW) THAT I DON'T CARE ABOUT RAG'S ROLE?

LET'S LOOK AT WHAT STARTED THIS;

@MBF - you've already full claimed

Have I?

that's what started this.
that's not "i have more info about rag - that's dorking around and implying that you haven't revealed everything about your role.
So, let's try this again - WITHOUT GIVING A FLYING SIDEWAYS DIDDLE IN THE DARK ABOUT RAG'S ROLE - claim everything about your role, you annoying creature.

[Thor665]

At the moment, Thor/Peregrine looks pretty good

How?

[Thor665]

that's not "i have more info about rag - that's dorking around and implying that you haven't revealed everything about your role.

You are a fool.

Please explain how I'm misunderstanding what you said.
Are you claiming your lack of a full claim has nothing to do with your role?

[Thor665]

@MBF - define "full claim"

[Thor665]

Perhaps. As I said, I will give no more info unless we do a mass claim. Best to keep the mafia on their toes.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-

FRIGGIN' DEFINE "FULL CLAIM"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND EXPLAIN HOW *I'M* STUPID!!!!!!

[Thor665]

So...basically claim all of your powers and targets.

You're saying doing that will reveal Rag's role? Your neighbor?

[Thor665]

I do think you are being stubborn, and currently not looking for scum.

Unless you're scum - but, yes, I do seem to be on hold waiting for this, don't I.

Prior to you dropping this gak I was scumhunting though, I dare you to say I wasn't. Give me what I want and watch fireworks happen as I can finally move on. Stop stalling and being anti-town.

[Thor665]

I'm not stalling, I'm resolute. I'm not obliged to full claim, especially not at the request of a rolefishing scum.
End. Of. Discussion.

You previously claimed you didn't want to "full claim" because it would out Rag.
We have since clarified that full claim is you revealing your role, since you're hinting it isn't all revealed.
Please full claim or explain the value in a Vig hinting that he has more of a role than he does - do you expect scum to NK you *more* or something? Do you expect scum to NK you instead of Doc hunt? What?

@Ant - your plan sucks because I am town. Please, anyone, explain why Thor is scum. Nobody is doing it. Please go read Day 1-2, look at my votes, look at dana, tell me how that is a bus. Than extract heads from backsides.

We need a claim from MBF, I will reveal more about my thoughts on this if anyone actually produces a Thor = scum case.
If no one can produce such a case let's drop the lynch/kill Thor claptrap and let's figure out why MBF is hinting that he's more than he's claimed.
Thank you.

[Thor665]

@MBF -

First - you ducked my question about your claim, why? Please answer that question.

Please go read Day 1-2, look at my votes, look at dana, tell me how that is a bus.

You voted dana most of day 1 but never interacted with him in any meaningful manner. When it got close to deadline, you jumped to Rag, then EP to avoid to avoid a Dana lynch. Day 2 you voted Rag and called dana null. When I told everyone to lay off Rag, you switched to dana with no explanation. After staying there for awhile, you switch to Magua, then back to dana. This is the pattern for you, and it's done purposefully to make yourself look townish.

For a guy who calls me an idiot, you don't seem to care to actually apply your very large cranium to decheiphering play at all. You list off all my votes, act like none of them had any reason whatsoever, and than declare that obviouslly I was distancing the whole time. Let's walk through this;

Day 1
- Considering my reason for voting dana was his lack of posting, I find it sort of...stupid? to accuse me of not interacting with him enough during that period. He wasn't there to interact with.
- Since Magua and I started up the EP wagon when there were multiple other votes on multiple other wagons, you should explain why scum me wouldn't slide onto one of those or stay put on Rag. Instead I fired up a totally new wagon. SHould I have been on dana knowing what I know now? Sure. That doesn't make the action scummy, the vote process isn't a dana dodge at all unless you seriously mean to tell me that the L-4 wagon on dana spooked me enough to *start a new wagon* as a counter wagon option.
- I've wanted to lynch Rag most of the game, duuuur.

Day 2
- I start in on Rag, duuuuuur
- You tell everyone to lay off and I quite clearly say I'm laying off Rag *because of your request* it's not a sudden and strange thing.
- You now say it's weird that I got onto Dana with no explanation unless you can go into one of my (many) completed town games this year and show how I usually present a huge case when voting someone this is a wonderful and meaningless null tell.
- I switched to Magua as a test of reactions - remember that list you noted that I said I found dana null, I listed Magua as town. i also unvoted him and calle dhim town again. It's a gambit, try to keep up.
- I also then go back to dana and am accused of trying to sideline my vote instead of being on one of the better wagons and I specifically say that I think the dana wagon can start up, and is a good wagon. If I hadn't have done that the entire dana wagon of yesterday would have been a rotting shell of buckwheat.

You want to now how useless your analysis is - here's what can be said about you on Day 2.

Was on Ant, then hopped off to vote MoS, and then finally sneaked in to bus his buddy at the last second.
Vote switching isn't scummy - you need to actually read the game, see what was said, and pay attention to the meaning of the votes and how they fell in the overall strategy of the game.

Now - finish claiming.

[Thor665]

I can live with the Dramonic lynch but I'd much prefer a peregrine vig over a Thor vig.

This at least shows an awareness that probably both buddies didn't bus the roleblocker.
Congratulations - you get a cookie.

[Thor665]

Because CDB is a terrible player who lurked out pathetically and left you in a tough spot that you haven't managed to turn around, also you're one of only two warm bodies who wasn't on a wagon to lynch a roleblocker, why do you ask?

Also, there's a chance after he full claims I may get really excited by MBF and call him obv. town - y'never know!

[Thor665]

Bulletproof vigilante neighbor...

Holy crudsticks dude - why would you reveal Rag's role like that?
...
...
...whut?

More importantly - why did you ever hint there was more to your role if that was the more? Seriously, what was your mental concept of how that was a good idea, I want to hear it.

[Thor665]

@Emp - I thought it was actual, I can see it as a joke, I am getting close to frothing frustrated about how he is locking down the game.

@MBF - please look at the current gamestate. Please look at the last three days of play. Please look at the vote spread. Please do something pro town and full claim so we can move forward.

@Everyone else - if MBF doesn't full claim I'm actually exceedingly happy with an MBF lynch, I'm not even remotely advancing it as pressure anymore, I think he needs to be dead, and dead soon. A quickhammer would be awesome and pro town.

[Thor665]

@Thor - please look at the current gamestate. Please look at the last three days of play. Please look at the vote spread. Please do something pro town and drop your tunnel fishing so we can move forward.

Moving forward at this state includes the possibility of lynching MBF, so...

I can see how you might be frustrated at MBF being so stubborn, but you should be able to see, as a player that usually actually thinks things through, that MBF is far more likely to be town with-holding information than mafia or serial killer. Killing MBF will be killing a town power role, and could cost us more than just the loss of a vig shot. He isn't going to claim because he knows that the information is valuable enough that it shouldn't be released. You can doubt this all you want, but by pressuring him and advocating his lynch, you're being anti-town, and you could cost the town it's game because you didn't step down before MBF did.

Conversation about getting MBF to claim isn't ever going to get anywhere. You'll end up killing him before he claims, so I'd stop with the information push. It's a waste of time and will just stagnate real discussion. The only reason you should be attacking MBF is because you think he's scum.

Done.
Also, if he's town who would rather die than reveal his precious super secret role information that will destroy town if ever they know about it - WHY DID HE CLAIM TO HAVE NOT FULL CLAIMED YET?
Either town should know, or scum shouldn't know. Those are the two types of information. If scum shouldn't know *and* town shouldn't know than there is less than zero reaasons for hinting that you're any more than you already did.

Also, second Emp's question.

[Thor665]

@MBF - why did you drop a hint to something you considered anti-town to have town know?

Also, congrats on noting your defender is doing absolutely nothing but defending you. Not that she's ever done anything very proactive in the game.

[Thor665]

It's a strawman to want to know why you would drop hints about something that you thought would hurt town if you revealed and would never wish to reveal? No - that's actually a very reasonable question to ask.
Let's lynch MBF.

[Thor665]

It's a strawman to want to know why you would drop hints about something that you thought would hurt town if you revealed and would never wish to reveal?

If you are a Vig and town I HATE YOU!
FUGGIN' ANSWER!

[Thor665]

@Ant - look at my last post, explain why it's pro town that MBF refuses to respond to this question. Explain why he's town.

MoS - same question as Ant.

Rag - same question as Ant.

[Thor665]

Oh, and you want to know what helps town - knowing things.
What hurts town? Being confused and in the dark about things.
This is a very important day in the game and MBF is playing "neener, neener, I've got a secret" which is so drastically anti-town I would love to describe internet tough guy things I would do to him in person.

[Thor665]

Look - friggin' even if everybody wants to put their pants on their heads and think I'm possible scumbuddies with dana - you have a friggin' confirmed town thinking the same thing - answer the question for him if not for me or start getting serious about GF discussion.

[Thor665]

You won't be satisfied until I've done everything you've demanded, and since I've already refused to submit to your demands, answering your questions is a waste of my time. Your words are full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Dodge, duck, dive, dip, and...dodge.

It's a very simple question, you're really working hard to ignore this one. I'm not even asking you to claim in this question (though I'd rather you did) I'm asking you to explain your pro-town decision. Y'know, that should be simple to do, right?

[Thor665]

This is the strawman in question. In the beginning of this whole debacle, you jumped to the conclusion that I had fully claimed. I threw out an "oh, really?" to signify that maybe I had, maybe I hadn't. I wanted to keep the scum guessing, but then you lost your goddamn mind.

So...your goal, as a claimed Vig, was to get the scum to be *more* scared of you...while there's a theory doc out there? And then you were unwilling just to go 'lol, naw, I'm just a Vig' when you saw that multiple (not just me or this wagon wouldn't exist) but multiple players lost their minds? Good pro-town focus keeping the scum off balance there, champ.

I've already revealed a lot of information on my role, given my analysis of individual players, addressed who I think are the scummiest, and made a night action plan with Ant, all while defending myself (quite thoroughly) from the constant barrage of serial killer accusations while teetering on the brink of being mislynched. I'm satisfied with my play.

If you flip town we'll re-visit how satisfying your play was considering you shot RC and Magua.
I also addressed your plan with Ant, ook like three seconds, the plan sucks. You never addressed EMp's reply to your plan with an alternate plan though. So...good job on that?
You actually didn't really make any cases, you zipped through a couple of them and just said 'lol scum'

Now that MBF is backing off of his very pro-town suggestion he had more powers he refused to reveal he is either *immensely* buying into Ant as town or is indeed a SK.

Okay, so what do we have?

"Vig"/Neighbor
not vanilla/Neighbor (verified by other neighbor who loves to confuse town to act pro town)
Cop
Theory Doc
Neighborizer
Whatever roles the unclaimed players have (That's Thor, Emp, Pere, and dram)

Vs.

Mafia Roleblocker
and whatever else the mafia have.

Last night Mafia had just lost their roleblocker, and had a claimed cop and a claimed confirmable PR. They shot at a confirmed town...
However, yesterday, Ant and MoS were both on at interesting points to help push the dana wagon ahead of the MoS wagon. Clearly not scum together, Ant looks even better for the move as he did have a vote on town Magua and opted for the shift at a pivotal point. MoS was working enough of a bus I find it unlikely for him to be scumbuddies with dana as well. Rag is actually pretty town too, and looks faaaar more town than MBF sadly enough.

I'm leaning CDB - Pere - MBF as possible SK.

Unvote: MBF
Vote: Dramonic

I could still actually lynch MBF pretty easy, if someone else get on there and puts him in hammer range I'm 98% likely to do it and laugh afterwards.
If MBF is Vig he would benefit town by not shooting tonight. If he has to shoot I would tend to point towards Pere, but would strongly advise against it unless Dram flips scum.

[Thor665]

I think you're more likely scum than I am certain he's an SK.

[Thor665]

I will agree he's been derpy enough I almost want to hammer him for the joy of it though though - I want that on record for him if he is town.

[Thor665]

@Pere - when did you think you started voting Dram? Link me to the post you intended to vote him in, please.

[Thor665]

I'm also suspicious of how easily the dramonic wagon built up, and don't think it's likely he's scum anyway.

Please explain this Ms. 'I give good thoughts in a QT but never in the actual game thread'

Basically I and Pere created this switch. We got off someone you claim is uber obvious super town PR that we had at L-1 in order to make this wagon happen.
I want to smack you with a dead carp.
The horror is you're still playing more pro town than mbf today - and that is terrible.

Please explain how either myself or MoS make sense as dana scumbuddy. Please use Day 2 when you do this.

Re-stating;

If MBF is Vig he would benefit town by not shooting tonight. If he has to shoot I would tend to point towards Pere, but would strongly advise against it unless Dram flips scum.

[Thor665]

@Ant - Rag is terrible, but her Day 2 actions are a little odd if she is scum. I'll agree someone in that neighborhood is probably lying their socks off, but I think it's mbf who has made a concentrated effort today to fug with town's face repeatedly. I would most assuredly want to kill MBF first in that partnership.

[Thor665]

@Thor- What are you using as your source for MoS being town? The neighborizer role on mafiascum is 6-2(?) a scum role.

His role is meaningless.
His play Day 2 versus dana is a bit more telling. If I could definitely put MBF into town in my mind I'd have MoS on the chopping block pretty happily. If he bussed dana than his bus was good enough to buy him some more town cred for now.
Basically MoS is town because MBF looks much more likely to be the filthy liar.

[Thor665]

Here's the extra fun rub - I'm some sort of PR.

[Thor665]

I want a mass claim, I want MBF to start and I want to go last for reasons I will refuse to explain until then but it has to do with verifying something via my role. Something either should or should not exist.

[Thor665]

You're funny. You spend a whole week attacking me for vaguely hinting at my abilities, then do it yourself. By your own logic, I suppose you are now intentionally hurting the town.

Has anyone requested that I claim?
No?
Okay than - it's something totally different. Also, I clearly outlined how I would claim, I never said I wouldn't do it at all - I said I'd do it after a set of conditions were met.
Different than you in two very important ways?
Oh yes, very much so.

I don't know about going first though. I'll have to think about that.

Speaking of...
NO - YOU GO FIRST BECAUSE YOU SUCK. IT WILL THEN BE POPCORN.

Thor, why are you a PR and voting me?

PoE and reaction fishing.
Why?

[Thor665]

@Thor: If you're a PR and Rag's a PR and Ant's a PR and MoS' a PR and MBF is a PR, you might want to consider thinking that there is CLEARLY someone lying in there.

You're right, this is a blinding flash of insight that I have never considered at any point today, nor have I done anything to help clarify it.
Hold on, I'll have to go redo all my thoughts and will get back to you.

[Thor665]

Claim - PR role that will be revealed at the end of mass claim.

And now the anti town totally destroying us poor innocent townsfolk information can be revealed just fine...if we massclaim? Die in a fire.

[Thor665]

Good job providing direction, Ant.
Let's proceed with the mass claim. I'm going last, I want MBF to go first but frankly am indifferent on that part if anyone else wants to kick it off or wants to suggest that someone else should go first.

[Thor665]

If we don't go with a mass claim due to MBF continuing to suck, another vote on MBF will also get me to hammer him - I'm adaptable like that.

[Thor665]

Are you serious? Because if you're serious replace out.
If you post again without clarifying sincerity, replacing out, or unvoting - I will hammer.

[Thor665]

Vote: Mikeburnfire

Done.
If you're town I hate you for rolling over without being willing to claim or even discuss the mass claim.

[Thor665]

If you're personally upset at me for something I said that insulted you, I apologize.
If you're upset because of inability to see how I've been trying to be functional this entire game day, I suggest you should have taken the appropriate route and replaced out as opposed to self destructing in order to "make Thor wrong" as opposed to trying to further your wincon.

[Thor665]

Thor is a narcissistic douche

Please stop insulting me. I do not believe it is part of the game anymore and it feels petty and pointless and is only there to hurt me, I am not fond of it or you for doing so.

[Thor665]

It's not an insult, it's fact.

Even if it is a fact (it's not) it's still an insult because you meant it in a hurtful way.

You refused to participate until you got your way, acting like you knew better than myself how my role should be played. Then you lynched the vigilante, effectively throwing away two town kills.

If you're town, you've already lost the game, and you deserve it.
If you're scum, you've already won for all the wrong reasons.

I will happily debate the relative quality of my play and yours after the game is over. Until your upcoming flip and my eventual death or win you and I have questionable frames of reference to gauge each other.
If you are a pro town vig - your loss is hardly as earth shattering as you are making it seem, and though I will happily accept my role in your lynch, I submit you should look in a mirror a touch and consider how you helped lead to that lynch in a few different ways. Being town and getting yourself lynched isn't a good strategy to win the game generally speaking.

[Thor665]

You should probably replace out - I'm too big of a jerk to play with, remember?

[Thor665]

@dram - well, I actually did find his insulting me really uncool. That said;

1. Either he was telling the truth about not knowing he wasn't hammered and has shown that I am such a reprehensible player that he is will to go against his wincon to get away from me.
or
2. He knew he hadn't self-hammered and is lying about not knowing it and not actually drawing any conclusions from the activity or advancing the gamestate at all.

[Thor665]

I'm fine with Ant going first, though I would rather he have already gone and already popcorned.
If Dram has an issue he can go first - it's now a race!

[Thor665]

Sure.

[Thor665]

Emp, Thor, Ant, MBF, and Rag have expressed agreement with fullclaim if dram goes first.
That's 5 of the remaining 8 - also known as majority.

[Thor665]

You should probably replace out - I'm too big of a jerk to play with, remember?

I think I'll stay out of spite.

This dramatically increases the chances of the false hammer being a gambit and increases the value of lynching mbf. I'm still amazed you're able to make Rag look highly pro town today by reflection of your play.

[Thor665]

Popcorn.

[Thor665]

Well, actually never mind, mbf volunteered as second - he can popcorn.

[Thor665]

Thor can claim next.

I claim VT until the claims are over and then I may suddenly change.

Pere can claim now.

[Thor665]

After the claims are done I'll be curious to know which one.

[Thor665]

Yeah, I'm up. I'm actually a little confused right now. My role made it look pretty clear we had a pro town Dayvig in the game - but nobody claimed Dayvig. That has me somewhat bewildered and maybe I'm screwing something up here. If there is a Dayvig I'd very much like you to claim at this stage because I'd love to move somebody else into the 'don't lynch' pile. Also, since we're probably in Mylo tomorrow today is a good day to puzzle out a good use for your shot in any case.

My name claim is Devon “Captain Awesome” Woodcomb.
Apparently I'm awesome.

If we don't have a Dayvig I'm going to have to apologize and re-think my role because I will be confused as heck if we don't.
I'm also pretty confused by the lack of the double kill night 1 - I may get to a theory on that if we don't have a Dayvig, but I'll admit to being pretty confused by the way this mass claim went.

[Thor665]

@Emp - explain what further? There should be a pro-town Day Vig or else my role makes very little sense.

Also, I don't think I understand you Rag accusation there... I mean, I really don't understand how you came to that conclusion and how it makes Rag scummy. I might just be being stupid, could you clue me in?

@Pere
1. Maybe
2. Doubtful and would make Ant scum.
3. Maybe, though doubtful.

@Mod - in games you host, how do you handle multiple kill flavors targeting the same target? Do you use the flavor of who submitted first, use multiple kill flavors, create a third kill flavor that combines the two, whassup?