1116 - Literally Anything uPick

[Doombunny9]

Vote: Leo

Because OMGUS is fun as hell!

[Doombunny9]

Vote: Framm 18

Blurry pictures of wolves are not cool.

Framm has a disturbing lack of blurry wolf pictures...

Also, I'm going to fourth the question even though it seems like he's trying to move us out of the RVS which is worth brownie points in my book.

So, which of Doombunny and CES are the double voter? or is it a VC mistake?

Must be CES or a mistake unless I'm a double voter and wasn't told of it

[Doombunny9]

So you see the town motivation behind it, but you want to ask what the motivation behind it is?

I can see the motivation in making attempts to scumhunt as early as possible to end the RVS. What I can't see is why he would choose someone for avoiding wagons rather than anything else.

Do you think Leo @L-4 is goodthings atm?

I don't really care atm. Its a RVS wagon and if it gets too large I'll gladly take my vote off.

[Doombunny9]

I understand that its still early in the game and all but is this back and forth really helping? You can debate about whether or not bandwagons and the RVS is helpful all you want but its not going to catch us any scum.

My current reads (Which I admit are weak, but that's to be expected) are on ghost who is more or less the one that brought up this sidetracking debate and is definitely fueling it. For example:

I feel that creating random wagons without at least a little information encourages sheeping, which is not a protown behavior, which could encourage the quick lynch.

Woah, woah, woah... Are you really concerned about someone being quicklynched this early in the game? This is either an extreme over-reaction to the Leo wagon (Unlikely) or just pointless discussion (More likely).

Other than that, Ghost seems to be trying to extend the RVS:

I think you expect someone to crack with early pressure, but most good players are aware a RVS is that...an RVS.

We're waiting for someone to stir the pot. To say the one thing that gets us interested and votes flowing; and I concede that's important, but I dislike using my most powerful weapon to vote someone that I don't honestly believe is scum for the sake of getting there. I recognize there's probably no better way to do it, but it doesn't mean it has to be my favorite part of the game.

So you're waiting for someone to just say something scummy... But don't want to pressure anybody into doing anything? There are a few problems with this: First of all, if you're just planning on waiting for someone to slip up, no one ever will. What do you expect to happen? Someone to announce that they're town? Pressure and early discussion is one of the best ways to kick up scumhunting early on and to get town out of the RVS. By just sitting there and waiting for other people to slip up on their own, you're just unnecessarily lengthening the RVS.

Unvote, Vote: Ghost

It's srs-ness time everybody!

[Doombunny9]

Leo shakes their head at Chronopie post 51, nods at Cogito Ergo Sum post 53, unvotes doombunny9, and votes ghostlin.

Any reason for the vote change or are you just trying to get in on a bandwagon?

@Anyone whos played with Leo before- Seeing as I'm too lazy to check right now, does Leo always play like this? (I don't mean talking in third person, I mean the lack of explainations)

Considering I've drawn three votes on your premise that I'm extending RVS

Not true. Framm's vote is RVS and no one even knows why Leo is voting you.

what's the concrete reason you're voting me, who's giving you a reason for how he thinks, although you think I'm wrong, a better candidate then Leo, who is doing pantomime, or many of the other posters that haven't posted yet and are lurking?

The concrete reason for voting you was for seemingly trying to draw the town away from scumhunting by talking about pointless topics, and as you just said, not really trying to scumhunt and just watching other people.

As for why I chose you other than other people: Its too early to build a lurker case on someone seeing as how we're only a few days into the game and everyone's made at least a few posts so far. I'm also against Lynch All Lurkers unless there are other reasons to vote them to go along with it. As for Leo, I advise you to pay attention to when the posts were made. At the time of my last post, I had no idea Leo would be so much of a problem seeing as how he started messing around AFTER my last post. Speaking of Leo...

He starts off with a couple of fluff posts which don't really tell us much other than that he doesn't care about his wagon and that CES confused him. Alright, that's understandable seeing as how we're still early into the game. But then he goes off and changes his vote to ghost without providing an explaination. Leo is definitely worth a closer look from now on

Anyway, some questions to people:

@Leo-Can you explain your vote on Ghost?
@Leo-Is the new way you're talking due to a post restriction or just something you're doing for the hell of it?
@Stranger- I second Power's question. Why did you feel the need to post fluff on something as pointless as a capital letter?
@Everyone who still has their RVS on someone- What do you think of Ghost? Leo? Do you have any strong reads on anyone yet?

Finally, I will

Unvote

since Ghost reads to me as town and as he stated, it may just be me not liking his playstyle and he is posting what he's thinking which is more than I can say about some people. Besides, Leo needs further examination in his next posts.

[Doombunny9]

At this point its pretty likely that most of the scum are hiding in the background trying to look active without really saying much. I'm looking at Stranger in particular. Other than Leo, he doesn't seem to be scumhunting much and rather just makes noise. The most obvious example of this is rather than comment on anything said since he last posted, he asks chrono why he capitalized an H. He may have been just teasing but even so, its just noise. Before I make too sudden of a decision, I'd rather hear from people who haven't talked much in a while (Ant, Framm, etc.)

[Doombunny9]

@Framm and Zang-Do you both have no scum reads whatsoever? Not even weak ones?

[Doombunny9]

I can agree with most of what has been said about Plum. The only thing that makes me hesitate to vote her is that other than the vote, she hasn't done too much other than the vote on Zodiark which again, is somewhat understandable seeing as how it was still early. I'd like for Plum to explain herself before I come to a conclusion.

stranger continues to make noise without really saying much at all (Yes, we know that's all and we know that he's going to post. He even backed it up with past games)

Here's a fun fact for you all. Ant has been posting in other games but not this one.

[Doombunny9]

Yes, we know that's all and we know that its all he's going to post about chrono.

Fix'd

[Doombunny9]

Zodiark votes Leo who has several other votes on him. This is hypocritical.

How is this hypocritical? Zodiark seems to be voting Leo for

purposefully

bandwagoning for the sake of bandwagoning and even backs up this statement by saying Lero isn't providing reasoning.

Did you bother to read the page Leo indicated or not?

Did you bother to read the time signatures? Zodiark made that post before Leo linked that page (The posts are even sorted according to time, this shouldn't be a problem)

Ghostling, what changed between your first post directed at me after my Zodiark vote and the one right after AV's vote on me? In which you quoted him and then voted me? I didn't post between those two posts and you expressed pretty similar views about my behavior in both. So what was new?

"I should of done this on my last post, but I will do it now."

If this doesn't answer your question I don't know what will.

I am irritated by your lack of votes altogether

I haven't found anyone particuarly scummy up until this point (Other than ghost previously but as you can see, I changed my mind about that)

No. Neither are going to be of any help to us.

Then why vote Leo over Ant? I for one would think that someone who at least does something should deserve to live longer than someone who ignores the game completely.

In this last post, Plum twists three situations around to put people in a scummy light. Plums reasoning for voting Zodiark is particularly weak as well and to me just looks more like Plum disagrees with Zodiark's playstyle rather than thinks he's really scummy.

[Doombunny9]

The 'no reasoning' thing was worded as a supporting point/icing. I think it's hypocritical to call someone out for throwing out votes too easily on someone who already has votes on in the course of voting someone with more votes on him. I see nothing about " bandwagoning for the sake of bandwagoning" in Zodiark's statements here.

Can you show me where he's being hypocritical? For it to be hypocritical he'd have to be throwing around votes too easily. Seeing as how he only voted one person (Not including his RVS vote) and he provided reasoning for it, I can't really see that.

The "bandwagoning for the sake of bandwagoning" part was me misunderstanding Zodiak's post

I want to know if he even looked at the page that he acknowledged was being pointed at at the time he made that statement.

What does this have to do with anything? If someones reasoning for voting someone (Leo gets a bye since this seems to be his meta) is "Go look at him in iso. It's obvious he's scum." I'd think that would be pretty fishy regardless of whether or not I looked or not.

Did you read the multiple times I referred to Zodairk's scummy approaches to justifying his Leo bandwagon vote through his RVS statement, rather than is just being a general statement in my last post?

The only things you've said about Zodiark's RVS comment was "[this part cut out for bring unimportant in this case] justifying a weak reason to vote someone who has a big bandwagon on him (the phrase 'even more so' I find particularly jarring) seems scummilicious. My wording was less clear about this, but the way in which Zodiark invoked the end of the RVS was scummy.", "He's not qualified to make a bad, scummy accusation against someone and back it up with his interpretation of the RVS in this game. It's too subjective to be anything but a bad justification, as opposed to an honest reason.", and "And justifying a vote on a player based on one's own judgment of when the RVS ended - a judgment which, as you acknowledge, doesn't necessarily apply perfectly to him - is bad and can be done in a scummy way. As here."

Which are basically all one and the same. Basically, its a weak support (I'd agree with this but he does have more on Leo which together makes it a solid case considering the time he made it), and because he shouldn't have assumed that Leo didn't think the RVS was over. If this is the meat of your case its pretty damn weak and while I agree that he shouldn't have naturally assumed tat Leo was "out of the RVS", people were getting into serious discussion, making serious votes, and from the point of view of Zodiark, it would make sense to say someone is scummy for not posting any content at that point.

Am I particularly scummy yet, then?

Yes, and normally I'd be voting you but I have no reason to disbelieve CES (And even if I did, it would be pretty risky). But since you want I vote so bad (And to be honest, I probably am putting it off too much) I'll

Vote: stranger

Including what I've said before about him, even if he just wants to policy lynch Leo/Ant, he should still be scumhunting.

[Doombunny9]

Remember our good friend Chrono? Turns out she went all Ant on us and is posting in other games not this one.

I've been updating my system and I lost the bookmark for this, Surprised I didn't get poked.

Only this one? I find that hard to believe.

Also, some questions toward Ant when he gets up to his catchup post:

What are your views on Plum?
What are your views on Leo?
Who do you think is the scummiest person right now?

For town, their vote is all they have, short of town aligned PR's. The only reason town has to not place their vote is if they feel someone is more scummy, or they person in question is either at L-1, or in danger of being otherwise quickhammered. As of the time of Powers vote, Leo was at L-3, and, as one can plainly see, Leo is his highest scumread, so neither of the above limit him so.

How does make chrono different from some other people (i.e. me, Zang) who just weren't/aren't voting because they don't/didn't have any strong reads yet?

[Doombunny9]

First of all, I'm refering to Powerrox, not Chronopie.

That was me not thinking when I made that post and typing someone completely different. I knew/know who you were referring to XD

Second, Power DOES have a read on Leo, as he admits. You and Zang(not that I've been paying much attention to him) don't have reads.

I've had plenty of reads on people. They were just too weak to go off of.

Do I have my definition of "policy lynch" messed up? To me, policy lynching somebody is lynching somebody who does something specific no matter the context. Leo refuses to back up the reasons for his votes, which I consider to be scummy. In RVS, it's all fine and dandy, but once there's info rolling people should be commenting on it. Therefore, I feel that I am scumhunting, even if Leo was the only person I was attacking at the moment.

You got it correct. You said you were going to vote Leo for not providing explainations (aka. something specific) despite him always doing it (aka. no matter the context). Your reasoning for Ant is the similar, the only reasoning being that he's not posting (see: Lynch all Lurkers; A policy scheme of voting). Your cases on Leo and Ant just look like you're trying to get hinderances out of the way rather than actually thinkng that they're scum.

The last time I checked, Chronopie is male, but thanks for the observation.

meh, my bad

[Doombunny9]

I can't wait to see what Leos pick was to put a "Talk in 3rd-person only" post-restriction,

*sigh*

I have a feeling his restriction could also be whats limiting his responses, otherwise I don't see the fuss.

Have you even been reading the thread? I recommend post 67 in particular. This looks even more fishy seeing as how Leo seems to be indicating he's played with you before...

I can see reasoning for the power wagon and it looks good but I'm happy keeping my vote here for the time being.

@CES-Erm... This is it? I reckon at least one or two people asked you about why you protected Plum. You could at the very least answer that.

[Doombunny9]

My action speaks for itself.

I understand that bit but someone (I think ghost but whatever, it doesn't matter) was wondering why you would use up a protect on Plum when she only had a few votes on her.

But what if a read isn't scummy enough in order to be worthy a vote?

Please notice how this is coming from someone who isn't scumhunting. Who notices the correlation here?

At this point stranger and power are about tied for who I think is scummiest. I'll keep my vote on stranger for now but both of them will be under serious scrutiny.

[Doombunny9]

I don't respond to rolefishing.

How is this rolefishing? I already know that you have a dayprotect. All I want to know is why you protected Plum so early on. This has nothing to do with role other than what we already know.

[Doombunny9]

/Will be V/LA until Monday

[Doombunny9]

I am back from my V/LA and will make a catch-up post soon.

[Doombunny9]

All you know is that I posted "Dayprotect: Plum". You don't know nearly as much as you think you do.

I understand that part but WHY did you protect Plum. This has nothing with your role...You know what, forget it, I may be accidentally rolefishing and I'm basically chasing a lost cause anyway. Be warned, if you claim in the future and your role doesn't support your reasoning for not explaining you, I will be on you so hard...

First of all, I happen to be under the impression that there is some degree of opportunistic bandwagoning inherent in Zodiark's vote. In any case, his specification (I paraphrase) 'especially with several votes on Ghost already' regarding Leo's vote looking like intentional bandwagoning is hypocritical given that Leo had more votes on him at the time of Zodiark's vote than Ghost did at the time of Leo's vote. A concern about throwing votes on someone who has many votes is hypocritical to some degree when combined with a vote on someone who has even more votes on him already.

This isn't hypocricy. Hypocricy is when you do something you beleive is wrong (Or in the case of mafia, voting/FoSing someone for reasons that you yourself do). The thing is, Zodiark wasn't voting Leo because Leo voted someone with "a lot". He was doing it because he thought Leo was throwing votes around wildly.

In fact: /claim bus driver

...

Well I don't buy the claim of hacker = Busdriver

Why would a hacker be able to change the positions of two people.

Well I don't buy that you've been reading the thread seeing as how power gave flavor that makes good sense.

@Leo post 203-Fuck yes

Leo draws a picture of their own best conclusion, with Plum and StrangerCoug as likely scum. Leo hands everyone a piece of paper on which to draw their own conclusion.

Doombunny draws a picture of Plum and SC getting pwned...In the face.

Unvote, Vote: Plum

The only thing stopping me from voting her anyway was CES's protect which we now know doesn't work on lynches.

[Doombunny9]

Please give a moment to comment on Leo's 'trap' and why you believe in it so hard, and what your reaction might be should SC or I flip Town, both regarding the other and regarding Leo. Thanks.

I beleive in it because it was a pretty fucking big slip. Rather than beat a dead horse, I'll just direct you to one of the other people who commented on it. If you or SC flip town I'd have to take a closer look at the information regarding Leo and whichever one of you doesn't get lynched and make a choice then. You flipping town does not make Leo scum or SC town as ghost pointed out.

Question to the players: Are the prod mechanics too strict?

I think the prod mechanics are fine. They're pretty similar to what I've been dealing with in other games I've been it. I think its just the players fault for the lack of activity.

Finally, I'm getting growing suspicions of chrono (Although I haven't decided whether its scummy or just bad play, I'm going to lean towards scummy). He's just active lurking and not giving a damn about scumhunting. His posts are mostly fluff and the only posts that have any meat on them are iso 5 (This is the only good one, at least in this one he seems to be making an effort) and iso 7 (Not scumhunting per-se but at least her point makes sense). In particular note is post 6 in which he doesn't even seem to be paying attention to the thread

[Doombunny9]

Why yes I have and I still don't buy it. Your "Oh, I was just trying to get a response from teh mafias" just seems like a cop out to me. If it had been an interception from the scum, what response were you trying to get? If scum legitly asked a townie something and got a mixed response, they wouldn't just out themselves or change their play so drastically. Likewise, if it had been an accident that it was sent to you, they'd just become more discreet, making it harder to get information

[Doombunny9]

But you agree that their behavior might change in some possibly perceptible way if they had any fears that their messages were being intercepted. Becoming more discreet might be noticeable and possibly lead to an avenue of scumhunting previously unavailable.

By "more discreet" I was referring to the ways in which they'd send their messages to each other (i.e. not being too specific)

I'd like to know how you'd make use of the information if you received such an anonymous message through the Mod out of the blue, and why my response was necessarily not a Townie one. Not necessarily a good idea from a Townie, but merely the possibility that the response was a Townie's idea.

If I'd receive a message, rather than do something pointless like try to fool with them, assuming the PM was meant to go to me, I'd try to analyze the PM for any patterns that match up with any of the players and ifunless my role was an interceptor, I'd out the PM I got rest of the players.

I can a townie messing up and doing the same thing you did... But I can imagine scum doing it a lot more clearly.

Then what does the day-protect does?

@CES- And you were accusing me of rolefishing XD

As for plum's claim, it doesn't really change my mind at all. I can see the role as being either town or scum and it's not testable enough to make me want to unvote. I'm keeping my vote here but I don't want the day to end until Batt has been given enough time to respond.

[Doombunny9]

While I understand the claim is plausible, and that role != alignment, the a line in the wiki article caught my eye.

Wikipedia saying the game became known as "sons of lies/deception"=Unvote! He must be town?

The hell?

If Plum flips scum, I wouldn't be surprised to find a connection between him and Chrono. Plum seems to be bussing right before the hammer to try and get Chrono some town-cred while Chrono... Well I don't know what the heck he's doing. At all.

PE:

Translation: I believe she is what she claimed, but due to that line, I think she may still be scum.

that still doesn't explain it. You're saying that you think he's scum... But you unvote. lolwut?

[Doombunny9]

No dead comrades? Hrm... Zat's odd...

Anyvay, I vill

Vote: Chrono

He needs to explain some zings:

-A defense of ze points made against him (Most of vich are in Plum's last post)
-An explanation of vhy he hasn't given any defenses
-A reason vhy he suddenly changed his mind and voted plum
-Reasons vhy he hasn't given any of zese is his last post.
And
-Vho his top suspects are at zis point

[Doombunny9]

@Comrade Batt- You have zrovn (Zat looks nozing like it should 0.o) out NO FoSes so far. Vho do you zink is scum and vhy?

[Doombunny9]

-A defense of ze points made against him (Most of vich are in Plum's last post)
-An explanation of vhy he hasn't given any defenses
-

A reason vhy he suddenly changed his mind and voted plum

-Reasons vhy he hasn't given any of zese is his last post.
And
-Vho his top suspects are at zis point

One dovn, four to go... I vould also like to ask vhy you haven't replied to zis zough

But anyvay, I felt zat ve needed to have more discussion on Plum's claim, thus unvoted, vhilst believing her still to be the most likely scum candidate. Vhen it appeared zat people misconstrued my actions, I decided to take matters into my ovn hands.

so razer zan explain your actions... You decide to end ze day? Vhat?

[Doombunny9]

I believe plum's claim

Ze hell is zis, comrade?

Leo gives Battousai a funny look for arguing that it's scummy to vote for the more suspicious-looking of two candidates instead of the less suspicious-looking.

...Except zat he's arguing zat you vere doing ze opposite: Voting SC (less suspicious) razer zan Plum (more suspicious)

I'm getting bad vibes from batt. He seems to be trying to appeal to everyone, he's potentially fence-sitting (Chrono's scum... But not really), and ze only FoS he's zrovn (Yup, still looks veird) out is on Leo

...I have no idea vhy chrono is posting in zreads other zan zis one again. He has plenty of zings to explain and he's just lurking instead.

[Doombunny9]

Zere is no need for pover to out vhat he did last night at zis point. Roles zat get a report already know that zey vere svitched, vhile most ozer roles don't need to knov zat zey vere svitched.

[Doombunny9]

[quote="Pover]Vhy is it vrong to comment stuff zat happened during ze time I vas v/la? [/quote]

Zere is no need to, comrade. By saying zat you believe Plum's role you're only stating ze obvious vhile at ze same time looking like you're trying to gain tovn-points...vhich is scummy. Commenting is fine as long as its not repeating vhat vas said.

Ant B has been doing similar to another game I played with him, and he flipped scum.

So vhat? Have you ever seen a game vhere he played as tovn? If you haven't or have and he plays ze same, zis point is null (I'd check but TBH I really don't care)

Vhile I agree zat Ant is looking anti-tovn, it just reads to me as more nevbie-play zan scummy play. Besides, I vant to hear from chrono before I change my vote to anyone else.

[Doombunny9]

Vat's not the point: ze point is he's being anti-tovn nov and vat seems to indicate to me noving good.

I understand zat, comrade. Vhat I was trying to get at is zat I vould razer lynch someone vho I zink is scum razer zan someone vho is just anti-tovn. Lynching someone for playing anti-tovn is a policy lynch and if ve vanted to do one of zose, ve should have done it yesterday.

No comrade, and it indeed may be a null.

If zis is ze case, vhy did you feel ze need to point out zat he does zis vhen he's scum?

[Doombunny9]

@Ghost- I zink zat zis is just a difference of opinions. I personally don't zink zat active lurking alone is enough to varrant a lynch unless it vas a policy lynch and zere vas no one else zat vas scummy enough to be a better candidate. Ah vell.

ftr: check my Sig.

Zis is it? You've been posting content in your ozer games but ignore zis one? You have some questions you need to ansver and even if you are Semi-V/LA, you should still be posting in zis zread if you are able to be posting in ozer ones.

[Doombunny9]

Unvote

I vant to give chrono a chance to explain himself before he gets too close to a lynch.

[Doombunny9]

EBWOP: Comrade

[Doombunny9]

@Batt- Even if you're not ready to vote yet, you should still be making cases on people veather or not all of your questions vere ansvered, comrade. Ve're a good portion zrough day 2 and ze most you've given us case vise is only one on Leo. Kind of.

[Doombunny9]

If you don't like it, vote me. I'm not going to make a half ass case on someone, zen have to reverse it 1 page later.

Ze zing is, comrade, zat you shouldn't have only a half assed case seeing as hov ve're a good portion zrough day 2. And don't vorry, you're my second pick behind Chrono.

Instead of prodding me, try prodding the people I'm waiting on, mkay?

Or I can prod everyone vho needs it (Or vell, let ozer people do it for me. Zere's no point it telling people zey need to post more content ven ozer people already have)

Zerefore, on role related grounds, I posulate zat my role would be completely imbalanced in ze scum hands, zerefore I am not scum. and ofc I know my alignment.

Even zough zis is true (Although plenty VIFOMy), it it still very possible zat you are a zird party role.

Also, I'm villing to give you ze benefit of ze doubt about not having much time to make a post but I vould still like you to ansver ze questions I asked you a fev pages back vhen you have time.

Finally, If ve vant to lynch chrono, ve had better do it soon. Starting at vhen zere are 7 people left, chrono vill be impossible to lynch unless he self hammers (From ze D1 VC he added another 3 votes to need to be lynched to himself meaning zat vhen zere are 7 people it will take 4 to lynch. 4+3=7 meaning he is lynch immune at zis point not including self hammers). Zis doesnt even take into account if he's scum and has scumbuddies zat vill refuse to hammer him.

[Doombunny9]

ComradeBunny, I would hope zat ze modifier is relative to ze number of people left alive in ze game. Once ve have found if ze pover can be reversed, zen maybe ve can test it to see if it is relative or a stock number regardless of ze number of players left alive.

You may have a point, comrade.

@chrono- Does your ability always add 3 to ze amount of votes needed to lynch you or is it dependant on ze amount of players.

Zese people need to comment more on vhat's been happening and about zeir top FoSes: Pover, Zodiark, Chrono, Ant, Zang, Batt (I don't even care if it's half assed. just shov zat you're doing somezing useful), SC, and CES. *Sigh* You people do knov zat scum can vin easier vhen 3/4 of ze players aren't contributing as much as zey should.

[Doombunny9]

Fraction fail, just pretend zat I've said 2/3 and not 3/4, comrades.

[Doombunny9]

And zen has ze balls to say I haven't formed an opinion zis game, vhen my opinions are being held back by him.

Playing ze blame game I see, comrade. Even vizout Zodiark anvering your questions, it shouldn't hinder your abilities to form cases on people ozer zan him.

Vote: Chrono

Since I forgot I unvoted until nov and since I found out he has multiple shots, zere's really no more reason for me to keep my vote off.

[Doombunny9]

Vat is L-2 on Chrono.*

*Unless he uses his ability in vich he could be anyvhere up to L-5, comrades.

I also agree vith vhat ghost said. If ve vant to lynch chrono today, ve should do it quickly to keep him from using his ability.

[Doombunny9]

If you vant me to prove it's use again, pick a target for me. Seeing as you don't trust me to do so myself. comrade.

Batt or pover vould be good choices, comrade.

In ozer nevs, you STILL are ignoring plenty of questions ansvered to you and I vant to knov vhy. From my PoV you are either:

a) Ignoring me for vho knows vhy-Zis is a terrible, terrible idea, especially if you're tovn
b) Ignoring me because you have no ansver to ze questions-Need I even explain?
OR
c) Don't even realize you've been asked a question- Vell, you should have realized be now. If you really need ze help I'll direct you to my iso posts 23 and 35

[Doombunny9]

After reading zrough chronos's explaination of his role, zere is no way in hell zat zis is a scum role (zird party maybe, but I don't vant to vote chrono because of zat until ve have enough reasoning to support zat). Zerefore, i vill

Unvote

I'll reread ze zread again later and choose vho I vant to vote zen, comrades.

[Doombunny9]

Vait. Had you not already read zrough Chrono's explanation ven you voted him ze first time, comrade?

I have, however, it vas ze specifics vich really made up my mind, comrade. Before his latest post I vas skeptic but still vouldn't be surprised if he flipped scum. ofc, if he's lying about his role, I'll be voting him so hard...

Finally, Batt's reasoning for his vote makes me suspicious. Previously, he said zat he vasn't so sure about chrono and zat he didn't zink chrono vas scum (See: Batt Iso #4 and 6) zen from out of novhere he changes his mind and votes chrono vith ze only reasoning being his unvoting of Plum. Zis just reeks of trying to get a mislynch.

@Batt- Vhat made you change your mind about Chrono between zen and nov?

Vote: Batt

[Doombunny9]

Doombunny 460- I had a misunderstanding about somezing, but upon realizing it, it changed my opinion on Chrono.

Care to share your misunderstanding vith ze rest of ze class, comrade?

Pover is at L-2 I believe. If ve get close to deadline and still haven't lynched (Vich looks unlikely at zis point), I vill gladly change my vote to prevent a mislynch.

[Doombunny9]

In zis post, Batt demands Comrade CES explains (i.e. gives reasons) but von't give reasons himself.

Zis. I'm beginning to zink zat comrade Batt vas lying about having a misunderstanding about Chrono.

[Doombunny9]

You're hurting my head. It is fucking role related.

Oh. Zat makes more sense, comrade XD

Zat's 'cause you're scum.

Great idea! He must be scum for not understanding you! And razer zan try to explain vat you meant, you call him scum for no reason vhatsoever! You sir, are a genius.

[Doombunny9]

He doesn't understand me because of an implicit assumption he's making. And it is definitely an assumption scum would be more likely to make.

Now I'm interested. Please go on.

I don't really benefit from explaining it as I'd like to see how long it takes people to figure it out.

Is there a point to this? I don't think that its a good gauge of scumminess and I can't think of any other reasons you would want to see.

[Doombunny9]

Leo doesn't appear to have any better understanding.

Vat I meant to say, comrade, is zat I nov understand vhy he vas unvilling to explain.

[Doombunny9]

First of all, comrades, ze earliest point vhere Chrono vill be unlynchable vill be vhen zere are 7 people alive, and zat vas only if it didn't depend on ze amount of people remaining, vhivh Chrono confirmed.. If you're going to call out statisics, at least do ze math first.

Zodiark also is vasting his vote. No one here vill be villing to svitch their votes to Chrono enough to make a lynch.

Finally, ze zang case just looks like a policy lynch to me zen anyzing else and since zere are plenty of good, scummy candidates avalible for lynch, ve really shouldint te PLing.

[Doombunny9]

Leo points out that doombunny is using a definition of unlynchable that assumes Chrono doesn't have scumbuddies.

Vell nov I feel dumb, comrades. Nevermind about zat.

Leo wonders why doombunny thinks zang isn't scum.
Leo wonders how many game days doombunny thinks it's okay to let scum go without saying anything at all.
Leo wonders whether doombunny would prefer a day 4 lurker lynch over a day 2 lurker lynch.
Leo decides that making excuses for lurkerscum is scummy.

First of all, I am against Lynch all Lurkers unless zere is more to support ze lynch. Also, since he's been gone in all of his games, zat doesn't prove zat he's scum. Vhile I don't like his posting habits, its not scummy. I vould prefer a 2 day lurker lynch but since zere are enough scummy targets to lynch instead, ve don't need to lurker lynch. If I need to vote to prevent a No Lynch, so be it, but ve still have a fev days and I'd like to lynch someone scummier zen zang.

[Doombunny9]

Vould you care to put some pressure on to guarantee ve get ze promised huge post, Comrade Bunny?

Oh, you have a point, comrade. I zink I can do zat. If ze post comes or he gets too close to lynch I vill unvote (Unless its close to deadline).

Unvote, Vote: Zang

Leo looks around for other mafia games in which Zang is alive, and doesn't find any since his post about "focusing on other games" in mid-February.

Feel free to take a look at Political Coalitions Mafia

[Doombunny9]

Doombunny 540- You are voting Zang to pressure him into giving a read, but you vote after it is announced zat Zang requested replacement. Zis doesn't seem logical to me.

I seemed to have missed zat, comrade, and since my only reasoning behind my vote vas to put pressure on him, I have no reason to keep my vote.

Unvote, Vote: Batt

I for one don't knov anyzing about it. it looks like a scum trick to me.

[Doombunny9]

Comrade CES is becoming more and more suspicious viz each post. He seems to be actively lurking, posting fine but viz little content in each of his posts. He's not doing any scumhunting and ze best cases he can come up viz are "lololol its gut gusy" vhich at ze very best is lazy tovn. Don't get me vrong, I have nozing viz people having gut reads, its just vhen zey cant do anyzing else vhen it becomes a problem. His ozer cases are very veak and he can't even explain zem properly. I still vant a response to my ISO post #45

[Doombunny9]

And vhy am I not a problem, comrade Doombunny9? I'm getting on myself for not posting much in zis game.

Don't vorry, you are but zere are so many lurkers, I'm not going to call you out in particular, comrade.

Zat's at the very worst. Seriously, gut is good. Have you never found yourself zinking that someone is scum or tovn vizout somezing concrete to point to, comrade?

Have you read ze rest of my post? As I said before, gut reads are fine just as long as its not all you're doing (May I recommend doing some more scumhunting?)

[Doombunny9]

Leo expects all of these people, with the exceptions of powerrox, Zang, and Leo, to state whether they support lynching powerrox. Leo tries to remember back and recalls that CES, at least, at one point opposed the powerwagon. Leo pulls out a calculator and decides that there are three others - battousai, doombunny, and chronopie, who Leo is uncertain about.

I zink I stated my opinions on Pover earlier but I can't remember. Oh vell. I zink zat Pover is scummy and I do support his lynch and I vill change my vote to him if ve get close to deadline vizout a lynch (Let's say late tomorrow night) and he is close to lynch. Hovever, I zink zat zere are people MUCH more deserving of a lynch (i.e. Batt) and vill keep my vote on zem unless vhat vas stated above happens, comrade.

so that the player would be giving away their status as a PR.

Every player is a PR (Zis vas mentioned during signups).

Anyvay, even zhough it's risky, Leo has been playing pro-town and his role seems like one a tovnie might have so I'd be fine vith zis plan (I vould need instructions hovever)

[Doombunny9]

Alright, I got ze message and here's my claim, comrade (I hope I'm doing zis right):

CRQHVLRDUNMGWDAPWJRSCWBEOALEYSYAQIUYPCDNIRNSRXNQYQKAXSUHNHEXWACBPRAYASRTJAWXGGPMSWOSELOMTUKBRGCKGGJDMKYCMMLTZYGEJFEBZQBXHSTOMSQQJOILQYUHGCYIIFBXXZBDJEPQMDXASTDQFCHGHFWNAANMLHWTTBVU

[Doombunny9]

Alright, the last part got cut off so here's the same thing but in two lines:

CRQHVLRDUNMGWDAPWJRSCWBEOALEYSYAQIUYPCDNIRNSRXNQYQKAXSUHNHEXWACBPRAYASRTJAWXGGPMSWOSELOMTUKBRGCKGGJD
MKYCMMLTZYGEJFEBZQBXHSTOMSQQJOILQYUHGCYIIFBXXZBDJEPQMDXASTDQFCHGHFWNAANMLHWTTBVU

[Doombunny9]

Alright, a few things: 1. I ran out of letters the first time around so I just repeated at the beginning. If that wasn't right, that may be where I messed up
2. Its kindof complicated to describe which is why I've had to use so many letters
3. I felt lazy and just found an online encoder which is the most likely cause for the screwup. I'll do it by hand tomorrow when I have more time.

[Doombunny9]

Here's my by hand mezod, comrade (I also don't vant to break ze post restriction zat I forgot about last time so you may have to change some of ze V's to upside dovn M's). I also vhittled it dovn a bit.

NUMHIIJDYKRTVNCQXEVGZTOSPTRDZAYDVYLKYHVLVSJSELOMYTYLKZJUUZULESPYUMXOLEBCZZG
HMHTVVSQIGBMX

I hope zat makes more sense.

[Doombunny9]

Alright, zis vill be ze last post I'll be able to make before deadline so to avoid a NL I'll

Unvote, Vote: Pover

(Dunno hov close he is to lynch. I zink zis is L-1). I also don't knov vhat to do about ze code as if I did do somezing vrong in encoding it, I have no idea vhat it vas. Finally, I vouldn't mind folloving ze MC order Leo proposed. Zere vould be a fev zings I vould change but overall, it vorks out.

[Doombunny9]

NK speculation time YAAAY:

Ghost or anozer vig if ve have one probably killed Bunny/Batt vhile scum killed Ghost. Chrono, vho is likely a SK, killed CES (Ze flavor certainly fits at least).

Vote: Chrono

[Doombunny9]

1) As an SK, I would kill every chance possible. This was the first night of multiple kills. (See my Only SK game SSBF mafia (large Theme), in which I was an SK w/ day-kills.)

a) The person you could have chosen to kill may have been doc'd
b) I recall Ghost being a roleblocker. Fill in the blanks.

2) If I were an SK, I would have picked a better target than CES.

WIFOM

3) "Mauling" does NOT fit my upick Flavour. Devastated maybe, but not Mauled. And not mercilessly.

Fair enough seeing as I know nothing about the flavor of your role. Although the big hammer thing makes me have second thoughts. I'll have to remember to research this further when I don't feel so lazy.

Note he doesn't ever give actual Scum reads, but Does declare some to be Neutral

Are you even reading the game?

Hmmmmm.. ok so I read the whole game, and I feel I have a pretty strong scum read on Bunny and Ant, and I think CPie over there be the SK.

I <3 statements without reasoning. Why do you think that Ant is scum?

[Doombunny9]

Fair enough seeing as I know nothing about the flavor of your role. Although the big hammer thing makes me have second thoughts. I'll have to remember to research this further when I don't feel so lazy.

I take this back. I mean, a maul is a hammer and I see NO reason that it has nothing to do with flavor.

[Doombunny9]

Link to the Champ Profile for LoL.

What does this have to do with anything? I still see a hammer/maul.

did Ghost say that it was a town-confirmed mason? I'm happy to treat Zodiark as fully clear in that case. If it wasn't confirmed, we can't rule out the possibility of a town/scum mason team...

Ghost said that if he flipped, we'd see why Zodiark was clear (Or something along those lines). I'm pretty sure that means they were conf town to each other.

[Doombunny9]

Zodiark's case is full of fail. First of all "You must be scum because you didn't die and you were so pro-town!" is complete WIFOM. That's bad. Also, I'm confused about what he's trying to get at with the whole doc thing but I think what he's saying is this: "Leo is using the 'I must have been docced so scum avoided me' line of reasoning to explain why he wasn't killed". Zodiark- Need I remind you that scum doesn't know if there's a doc or not and if there is, there's a good chance he/she was on Leo?

Look at the number of times you're mentioned. Once to say "don't answer for them", once a brief reply, and some non-specific questioning.

What about SC and Zang who were mentioned by Batt just as much or less than he mentioned AV? Also, is this the best case you can come up with? I know you can do more than this.

[Doombunny9]

You know what, no. I'm not stating any reasons or justification to my thoughts other that those pertaining to who I want to lynch today. Other wise I'm just giving scum more info than they need.

I'm just going to back away slowly...

[Doombunny9]

Leo looks to drm to watch and see if drm can explain why AV's post 683 makes them the correct lynch for today, and votes AurorusVox.

lolwut? I don't really see how either a)Defending himself against chrono or b)Saying something is against the spirit of the game is really all that scummy.

[Doombunny9]

Happy scumday AV

Also, I'd be fine with a massclaim at this point and I don't really care about the order specifics.

[Doombunny9]

@shotty- Are you told if anyone tried to NK you? If so, has anyone tried?

Also, do we get to hear your reasoning behind thinking that Ant is scum? Hiding info from town is bad.

Finally, can we get a nameclaim from you as well.

In any case, I think Ant or SC should claim next.

[Doombunny9]

Proposal: Whoever isn't on the lynching wagon is on shotty. This will bring him down to as much of a reasonable HP level as we can in case we decide to lynch him later.

[Doombunny9]

I take this back. I doubt that if he's telling the truth that he's a scum role so if he is telling the truth, there's no need to bring him down.

[Doombunny9]

Am I up next to claim? I guess so.

I am Schrodinger's Cat. During the day I can say a phrase which will cause me to "die" and flip, thus clearing myself. However, I will still be able to post and vote until either I post a certain amount of times (I don't know what the number is) or until the second day after I've claimed.

Also, I feel as if SC and Leo are just being nitpicky. I knew what he was trying to say and I can't imagine you weren't either.

pedit: "leo please unvote me."-Stop complaining. Its five to a lynch and you have plenty of HP left. Also, do we get to hear a nameclaim/reasoning behind Ant?

[Doombunny9]

Unvote, Vote: shotty

the SK is probably either him or Chrono and I don't like how he keeps changing his story and refuses to answer questions directed toward him. Anyway, if for whatever reason, he turns out to be telling the truth, Zodiark needs to enable Ant and Ant needs to shoot Chrono.

[Doombunny9]

I have 29 HP left at the start of today.

Leo counts 2 votes on you during day 1. Leo calculates 6 hp lost then.
Leo nods about the 15 points during day 2 and about the blood splattering flavor.
Leo counts 2 votes on you during day 3. Leo calculates 6 hp lost then.
Leo adds 6+15+6 to get 27.

lolwut? Last time I checked 29=/=27

[Doombunny9]

oh yeah, and:

I only have 15 hp left.

Even if you're referring to right now, you've lost 6 hp from when you said that so 27 or 29-6=21 or 23

Seriously, the hell is going on with the numbers here?

[Doombunny9]

Still no nameclaim/Ant case from shotty. Whee!

Anyway, Leo's correct about the redirector issue being an issue with Ant's kill. Unless we lynch the redirector today, Ant should not shoot anyone and Zodiark should not enable him.

Leo also makes a good point about Ant potentially being the SK and I'm beginning to think about a few more things:

@Ant- If you copied/stole Ghost's role, how come you didn't become a mason with Zodiark as well?
@Zodiark- Can you explain how your enabling ability works in more detail?

[Doombunny9]

Leo looks confused by zodiark's post. Leo looks around in the hope that someone can explain the part that is obvious to anyone with half a brain. Leo wonders whether Zodiark is claiming to have doc-protected Ghostlin. Leo looks around for any inconsistency between that and what drm is saying but doesn't find it.

^This. Basically what I get is that Zodiark protected Ghost but since he and shotty were switched during the night he protected shotty instead. While this does confirm Ant's story, I still don't see how this has anything to do with "and my reason for not seeing drm's claim is obvious to anyone with half a brain."

Ah well, maybe I just don't have half a brain.

[Doombunny9]

Oh, I get it... Shotty said he was NK'd during N2 while Zodiark docced him.

Yay for thinking

[Doombunny9]

The main problem I have with posting cases on who I think is mafia today, and asking others to do the same is this. It gives the Mafia more information than needed. I think we can all agree that killing the SK today is our best move, so if we lynch the SK, but during the day we talk about who we think is mafia, then the mafia can make a more informed night kill, which is something we never want the mafia to be able to do. The mafia is already the informed majority, and they all ready no, other than the SK, who is town, or at least not mafia so we do not want to give them the one thing they don't know to them on a silver platter.

There are issues with this: Scum already know who people think are scum and even if they don't its not too hard to guess. Secondly, how does knowing why people think others are scummy (If they didn't already know) help them make a more informed kill? Finally, why would you be refuse to make a case on Ant seeing as how if we even have a SK, it would be him.

[Doombunny9]

I think we're about ready to hammer after AV claims. If he flips scum I'll be planning on looking at SC or AV as his partner.

Leo starts to look confused, but then reads the AntB post following doombunny's.

I was referring to there being a scum redirector.

[Doombunny9]

So what exactly is the case again me? Oh that's right there's not one :rolleyes:

Are you even reading the thread? You've been inconsistent with your role, didn't nameclaim until late, are failing to post a case on anyone, won't answer peoples questions, and you claimed you were NK'd last night when you were docced. Your play is full of discrepancies and for that I say bye-bye scum.

Oh yeah, and if you say you want the SK to die... Why are you voting Chrono?

[Doombunny9]

Why do you think we are likely buddies of DMSIS?

PoE mostly. Zodiark is pretty much clear, Leo is pro-town, Chrono is unlikely to be scum due to balance reasons, and Ant is probably either SK if we have one or town.

shotty ignores yet another of my questions and I'm beginning to wonder if he's even reading the thread and just paying attention to the votecount.

[Doombunny9]

Having just read AntB's claim, I realise the need for clarity. shoty and Ghost cant have been swapped last night, otherwise Batt wouldn't have been killed.

Why not? Redirectors change around what actions target them, not who they target.

@Doombunny: If DRM is my scumbuddy, please explain why I would campaign to get more votes on Zang yesterday. I convinced you to vote for him, after all.

Does the term bussing ring a bell?

Also, since shotty seems to be having trouble understanding:

There were 3 kills last night.
Ghost made one of them.
Ant made another.
Scum made the last one.
Therefore, the SK must either be Ant or there isn't one.

[Doombunny9]

Well, well, well... shottys quick switch over to ant is interesting considering he forgot about the person who tried to "kill" him. Now then shotty- Who do you think has two kills, the scum or the SK?

I think my vote is well placed where it is.

@Doom, bussing does ring a bell, of course, but Zang had a single vote at the time (from Leo) under the premise of him lurking before I laid mine down. That's not enough to justify trying to get him lynched if he was my buddy.

Whoever said you were trying to get him lynched? Its not too much of an uncommon tactic for scum to bus another one that's unlikely to get lynched for all the benefits of bussing without actually carrying a lynch out. Your voting habits get a null tell and do not indicate at all that you're town.

as scum I could easily defend lurking as a poor man's scumtell. Bussing at that point made no sense.

We don't need your WIFOM.

I don't like that you're setting up lynches.

Did you not see my explanation before? Unless something drastic changes, you and SC are the only ones I have concerns about. Why would I lynch someone I thought was town?

[Doombunny9]

Doom I wasn't NK'd I did my math wrong I said that a long long time ago

Huh, well I don't know why I missed that until now. I'll need time to reconsider my stance since one of the nails in the coffin that kept me voting you was that Zodiark protected you while I thought you were shot.

Zang stopped being "unlikely to get lynched" when I followed Leo in putting my vote on him and started to try to convince you and others to do the same, because the wagon started gaining momentum.

At the time when the wagon started (He was at L-4, that wasn't really all too close), it didn't seem like he was all too likely to get lynched as people were looking at him just as much as others (i.e. Batt, Power)

I take that the first point could be WIFOM, but as for the second, it's not WIFOM when it realistically made no sense to bus (as I have outlined above) at that point.

I figure it was as good of a time as any to bus. As stated before, it looked like something that could be hopped on and off of again and it wasn't at a really crucial time for mafia (such as lylo)

Anyway, I wouldn't really be too surprised if there were 2 town killing roles seeing as how Ant is one-shot and Ghost/Zodiark require both of them to be alive.

[Doombunny9]

Surely I mentioned that if my protect hits Ghost, his RB becomes a vig.

...No you haven't... This would be the first time.

Anyway, there are either two things I can see going on:

a) Last night Ant's action got redirected, no one elses.
b) And is the SK

None of them are too unlikely and I can't see why Zodiark would get on his wagon with so little to go on. I'm beginning to think that, if he was the SK, why he said his action was redirected. However, this is where I have doubts:

I'm beginning to wonder if Ant really would have received the vig shot. This is what I'm thinking might make up my mind:

@Ant- Were you told that you needed to be docced in order to be enabled after you absorbed Ghost?
And after he answers that...
@Zodiark-Do you know if Ghost knew that he had to be docced in order to shoot?

Last thought 2; Whoever it was that claimed Schrodingers(sp?) Cat, if you can flip to prove your claim, why havent you?

That was me and as I said before, when I use my ability, I only live for a certain number of posts that I don't know about or two days after I use it. I'm not going to use it just for the sake of using it unless I really need to (i.e. in lylo or if I'm close to lynch)\

Unvote

[Doombunny9]

@AV- If Ant is telling the truth then there is no SK and if he's lying then he is the SK. If Ant shoots tonight, there will be two kills no matter his alignment (Unless him and scum hit the same person)

Anyway, if Zodiark can confirm that Ghost did not know Zodiark could turn his roleblock into a vig kill then its obvious who we kill?

The part which would inform me how was censored out by VV it an obvious fashion.

Can you elaboate by what you mean by censored? Did you mean you got part of Ghost's role PM ore that VV just wouldn't tell you?

[Doombunny9]

Chrono... The hell are you doing? We weren't close to deadline and there was still some things to go over. You're also not contributing anything and posting mainly fluff. I know you're probably town but you have got to help out more. *Sigh* lets just hope shotty was scum

Reminder: Zodiark should protect someone he thinks is pro-town instead of Ant. If he's town then we have a scum redirector who will use it on Ant and if he's lying he's going to pretend he got redirected.

[Doombunny9]

Well, I'm willing to lump shotty with Chrono and say he's town enough to avoid a lynch for now.

The latest votes on Ant formed way too quickly for my liking, especially since neither AV or SC haven't rally talked about Ant much recently. SC in particular just seems to be posting content-less posts and doesn't seem to be contributing much. Although I'd like to hear from Zodiark before I make up my mind.

[Doombunny9]

I don't have good reason to suspect Zodiark13

Nice thinking there considering he's clear -_-

Why rationalize something someone else did that you think is scummy?

Why wouldn't you? Saying "I'm not going to try to make sense out of anything because you're OBVIOUSLY lying"=Tunneling. That's bad. Trying to make reason out of something despite whether or not you think is a lie is good, it gives town more information and allows people to more easily tell if someone's lying or telling the truth.

Finally, you do realize that Ant is either town or SK don't you? He can't be aligned with shotty unless they're both town.

[Doombunny9]

Actually, I'm going to explain to everyone since the only people who really seem to get it are me, Leo, and shotty (I had to explain it to him but since none of you bothered to read it I have to do it again):

There were three kills last night. Ghost made one of them (Batt), Ant made the second (Ghost), and the scumteam made the third (CES). Therefore, Ant cannot belong to the scumteam because if he was, the scumteam either has two kills a night (which is unlikely) or Ghost wouldn't have died last night. We also know that if there is a SK it HAS to be Ant since if someone else was the SK we would have 4 kills last night. Therefore, we either have no SK or ant is the SK.

In short, I want everyone to know that if they are voting Ant or are planning on voting him (Chrono, this doesn't mean to quick-hammer early again XD) that you are not voting Ant because you think he's scum, you're voting him because you think he's the SK.

[Doombunny9]

Oh and SC tunnel FTW?

[Doombunny9]

Why not target someone who had given an indication of having a power directly to Leo (Ghostlin or Doom)

Erm... Everyone has a power. This was mentioned during sign-ups and no one mentioned whether or not they had a night action other than Leo who already claimed.

Why target AntB for your SINGLE shot? That seems too much to take on.

Why did they target AntB?

I don't think I really understand what you mean by "too much to take on". As for why they chose Ant, why wouldn't they choose Ant? From what scum knew at the time, he was as good of a target as anybody.

@SC- Are there any other reasons you've failed to mention about Ant since your whole case on him was that he was shotty's scumbuddy which as you now know, is impossible

Vote: SC

For reasons already stated.

[Doombunny9]

Alright well apperantly I was wrong so this must be what really happened:

a) Ant is scum and used the scum's kill asa person he "vigged" (Unlikely since this can easily be checked)
or
b) shotty targeted the same person as Ant/Ghost/scum and Ant is town (More likely)

Vote: SC

Same reasons as last time

[Doombunny9]

Alright, I'm thinking that AV should claim what abilities he used N1+2, which one he still has left, and what results he got from his actions. AV probably isn't a high priority target for scum and probably won't get killed because of his actions since Zodiark is a much higher target. Even if AV had his protect left and used it on Zodiark, scum would likely kill someone more pro-town such as Leo. We have nothing to lose from AV claiming this but may be able to figure something out.

[Doombunny9]

@SC- Why do you think Ant would claim he was redirected if he was scum? Why not just claim he targeted Leo in the first place?

@AV- On N1 when you say you got no result did you mean you didn't get anything or that you got a result saying that Power visited nobody?

[Doombunny9]

Hold up—where does Leo factor into this?

My bad. Leo was supposed to be Ghost.

Can trackers get a "visited no one" result? It's my first time as tracker on-site

From what I've seen, they usually do.

[Doombunny9]

The real main point is that you claim to have been redirected from shotty to Ghost, yet Ghosts kill still went through, dispite the fact that if my protect doesnt hit Ghost, he only RBs, and your counterclaim to this is that there is a one way redirector that did this. In case you haven't noticed, everyone has claimed, and, AFAIK, apart from me having claimed targeting Ghost and you having claimed targeting shotty, noone else has claimed targeting either one.

This point is full of crap. If you haven't realized by now: scum could have targeted him and no; scum is not going to claim, that would be stupid.

And now its idea time: We lynch SC, Ant then roleblocks AV. Zodiark protects 50/50 between Ant and AV then BAM, we probably know Ant's alignment.

[Doombunny9]

@ the bolded, wtf? I can't split my protect, and I'm not going to protect my biggest scum read, just because he has my late masons kill.

This is NOT a time for tunneling. Listen to reason. We can almost guarantee that we can find Ant's alignment by using this. (And like AV said, I don't want you to split the protect or anything. I want you to randomly choose between Ant and AV to keep scum guessing). I do want to make a revision; Zodiark should choose between a 50% chance of Ant or a 50% chance of anyone BUT AV.

Basically, here's the possibilities:

a) Ant doesn't get docced, there is no kill-Ant is town
b) Ant gets docced, there is no kill-Ant is scum
c) Ant doesn't get docced, AV dies- Ant is scum
d) Ant gets docced, AV dies- Ant is town
e) Someone other than AV dies- Regardless of Zodiark's action, Ant is scum.

[Doombunny9]

Well, I'm an idiot. There is a much simpler way that is more likely to find Ant's alignment. Here's what we do:

1. Lynch SC or AV today (I prefer SC)
2. Zodiark protects Ant
3. Ant roleblocks/kills SC/AV (Whoever doesn't die)
4. We look at the kill flavor of AV. If Ant is telling the truth, he should also have picked up ghost's kill flavor as well.

*Note: If whoever we lynch flips town, we play as usual: Zodiark should protect whoever etc.

[Doombunny9]

I could've sworn I said to not follow my plan if SC flipped town. Oh well.

Most everyone here played well although I would have liked to see some more activity from certain people (*couchchronocough*). The game was very swingy and had a lot of roles which could have turned the game around which I liked. I suppose the whole reason I thought Ant was town was because I doubted that scum would claim vig which, in hindsight, was a really dumb thing to just automatically assume.