In the Court of the Gods (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Oh, hey, I know most of my fellow followers. Hiya!

Pre-Game Vote: Lady Lambdadelta

...for stealing Beato's board. You won't be living this down.

[Equinox]

Oh, but I can. Your red is meaningless in the face of time! I can poke, prod, and wedge holes in your arguments for as long as my god allows me, and I will reveal you to be the scum that you are!

[Equinox]

All I need now is for Dlanor A. Knox to show up, and we can really have a party.

Drench isn't here to enjoy the fun.

The comments are null. It's Jack and Nobody Special, after all.

I'm going to treat this like Vi's seraphs and just focus on the people that can be lynched... with the added benefit of watching the gods potentially slip up since they're actually posting.

[Equinox]

It's Jack and Nobody Special, after all.

.....?

I refer you to the following:

lol, NS has already revealed himself as the evil god.

After some chat I claimed to be scum and he straight up revealed himself.

LL, what do you think of the Jack-NS thing?

Something's bugging me a bit.

DeathRowKitty, Jack, Nobody Special: You sent/received a PM similar to Lady Lambdadelta's. Confirm/deny?

[Equinox]

ITT Nobody Special morphs into his counterpart.

I skipped past all the stuff about probabilities. Don't care too much for it.

Me=Weird's questions:

1. Long deadline, please, Fishythefish. Though, TBH, I think days that drag on and on can be tiresome as well.
2. Immunity. Double-vote would be useful later on, but for the most part, having a pro-town player around to give thoughts and whatnot is a wonderful thing.
3. No comment.

[Equinox]

COUNTERWAGON because I like Me=Weird.

VOTE: brokenscraps

Nobody Special confirming that he sent PMs but not specifying an amount piques my interest, but it's probably irrelevant for the moment; DeathRowKitty and Jack confirming that they received a PM similar to Lady Lambdadelta is unsurprising.

...hmm. Irrelevant or not, I still want my curiosity satisfied. I'mma roll with this anyway:

I acknowledge that even though I'm Immortal, that may have been a tad aggressive.

And potentially a mistake.

What do you mean by the bolded statement?

[Equinox]

I want me a new red-colored wagon to put my toys in.

Unvote, Vote: Jack

[Equinox]

I'm not thrilled about the reasons behind the new Jack votes, but it's a Jack wagon, so I'm not going to complain (too much).

[Equinox]

How could Jack trick NS to 'fess scum??? Unless NS was very careless and not paying attention?[/color][/b]

Ergo, Jack-NS interaction is a null tell.

Ok guys, why would knowing who the scumgod is NOT be worth it?!?

It is worth it, but I wouldn't put in excessive amounts of effort into finding the scum god. Lynching mortals is faster and easier.

vote:LL

Is still scum however.

I don't understand.

[Equinox]

What the fuck is this shit.

Unvote, Vote: themanhimself

I'll go back and reread this whole Jack-NS situation thing again in a few minutes when I'm done munching, but my thought right now is that Jack-NS was a bunch of hot air that you lot took a lit match to, so now we're sitting in an exploding airship.

While I'm in favor of finding the scum god (as long as we're not blowing time on it), a Jack vs. Nobody Special lynch dichotomy is not the way to do this, and so I strongly disagree with lynching Jack to "learn" about Nobody Special.

[Equinox]

All right, reread Jack and Nobody Special. I'll tackle the rest of you later this evening.

The situation as I understand it:

1. Nobody Special sends out PMs requesting ability claims. (Source: Lady Lambdadelta's 19, Jack's 36, Nobody Special's 37, DeathRowKitty's 40)
2. Jack claims to be scum in a return PM, and Nobody Special responds in kind. (Source: Jack's 7)
3. Nobody Special refutes Jack's claim; Nobody Special states he received a two-word response from Jack and did not respond with a scum claim. Apparently, the communication had ceased with Jack's response PM. (Source: Nobody Special's 108)
4. Jack claims that it was a three-word response, not a two-word response, and asserts that Nobody Special is still lying. (Source: Jack's 127)
5. Jack claims that Nobody Special included the name of the scum followers in his response to Jack. (Source: Jack's 152)

Conclusion: Nobody Special appears to be telling the truth. However, there is no scum motivation behind Jack's dishonesty; I believe all this was a gambit, and so far it's worked quite well.

I will not lynch Jack. I like my vote on themanhimself.

---

What's with this retro-active modification of your story?

What makes you think that?

It's a bonus that even on the off-chance we're wrong, we still get to know which god is scum.

How would Jack's flip reveal the scum god? I don't see enough interactions to draw that strong of an associative tell.

[Equinox]

If Jack continues to deny lying, and sticks to his story about NS claiming scum, I want him lynched. Worst case scenario, he turns up town, and we know which of the 3 gods is scum.

Oh, hey, I'll ask you the same question I asked themanhimself.

Pretty much the only thing we can do today is lynch Jack

. I don't see anyway to move forward without resolving this glaring inconsistency and since we can't lynch NS we pretty much have to lynch Jack. Besides that, the way I'm seeing the situation, it's a lot more likely that Jack is the one lying, I can see motivation and a means for that at least where I can't with NS.

No.

FoS: TMH

I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this. You seem to be of the same thought that Jack is a lying bastard and we all will learn which god is which once Jack dies, and yet you FoS themanhimself for expressing a similar sentiment. Why?

[Equinox]

The question:

It's a bonus that even on the off-chance we're wrong, we still get to know which god is scum.

How would Jack's flip reveal the scum god? I don't see enough interactions to draw that strong of an associative tell.

---

2) I wasn't FoSing him for sharing the sentiment about Jack. I was FoSing him for his closed minded thinking. He was trying to limit our options today to ONLY Jack, and while I certainly endorse a Jack lynch ATM, there is always room for other leads to come up. That is what I disliked with the post (as you may see, I bolded the part I didn't like)

Okay, fair enough.

Preview edit:

EBWOP: Equinox, Jack added a statement about "NS claiming TMH as Scum aswell" retroactively to his original claim.

I'll find the post if you'd like?

I saw it. I don't see a problem with it.

[Equinox]

P-Edit: In response to the earlier question, the main association is that

one of them must be lying.

I personally see very little town benefit from either if them lying. Hence, it is my belief that the liar is scum. You may not share this belief, (the idea of a gambit) but that is where we shall agree to disagree.

Well, yeah. Jack's the liar; that much is pretty obvious. What I don't get is how that tells Nobody Special's alignment (or DrippingGoofball's or Fishythefish's), and since you mentioned that we could pick out the scum god from our 3 gods by looking at Jack, I was confused.

EBWOP: The problem with the retro active change is that it detracts from the validity of the story. If I claim something, and then when it becomes convenient, I am allowed to change that claim, it should raise questions about how valid the claim truly is.

Your line of thinking here in general is correct, but I don't think it applies here. I'm going to agree to disagree with you about Jack for the moment, since I'm now more interested in hearing from themanhimself.

[Equinox]

Can you explain to my why you do not think it applies?

Meta tell. Jack does gambits, and from what I've seen, Jack-town has a clear objective in mind when he does so. I saw it here and I agreed with it, hence my belief that Jack is not lying as a scumbag but as a gambit.

I also see no scum motivation behind what Jack is doing. It's creating discussion for the town and it's helping him and others (namely, me) get reads, which is productive for town and counterproductive for scum. Therefore, I believe that this is a

town

gambit.

So equinox, your whole case is that Jack's play is gambit for the town? What's the purpose of it? You said it worked so what did it do?

Yes. I believe its purpose is to get reads, and that's what it did. I may disagree with Jack's reads, but his gambit has certainly helped me and others get reads of our own.

Jack did not accuse a random player of being scummy. That accusation seems pretty calculated to me, seeing as I (and presumably Lady Lambdadelta) got the same vibes he did about you at that particular point in time.

Yes, you guys speculated over a false dilemma (just not for 7 pages). The sentiment I got from this past discussion that one of Jack and Nobody Special

has

to be scum; that, to me, is a very poor assumption to make, and I strongly dislike that it was made at all. Jack's flip does nothing to help any of us read Nobody Special, and Nobody Special doesn't even flip. Even if he did, it wouldn't tell us anything about Jack.

[Equinox]

Jack did not accuse a random player of being scummy. That accusation seems pretty calculated to me, seeing as I (and presumably Lady Lambdadelta) got the same vibes he did about you at that particular point in time.

I wasn't talking about me, I was talking about NS. The fact that he went back and changed his story is even more suspicious. What I don't like is you giving him a way out now that we all know his strategy was terrible.

Jack is more than capable of getting out of his own gambits, I'm sure.

[Equinox]

Nobody Special, who's scum?

[Equinox]

Zang and SpyreX, at least.

Great reads, sir. Why are they scum?

People, just consider the facts, either Jack or NS is lying, pretty much everyone agrees it's Jack, even equinox. How can we just let that slide because one player came in and said 'Oh, that's probably a town move'?

We are going to let that slide not because of me but because Jack's move helped town rather than hindered it. Look at the results; people are reacting to the gambit, and it's those reactions (or lack thereof) that are important. That's pro-town.

I'm done talking about Jack. If my previous arguments have not convinced you, then any further discussion with me on this subject is just going to be pointless bickering.

[Equinox]

SpyreX because he stated the Jack gambit "doesn't bother" him.

It doesn't bother you at all that others are saying the same thing, too?

I gather that Jack's gambit bothers you, but you can't say that he's scum for doing it, either, so why are you bothered by SpyreX?

[Equinox]

I'm

done talking about Jack. If my previous arguments have not convinced you, then any further discussion

with me

on this subject is just going to be pointless bickering.

So talking about this subject is pro-town but we're not talking about it anymore? Are we really going to shut down this conversation because one player said to?[/quote]
Bold emphases mine.

I meant me. I am not continuing my current (now past) discussion about Jack's alignment with you because that conversation is a stalemate. If others want to argue with you, I'm not going to stop them.

Why are you so hung up on this "one player said to" anyway? It's not like I'm a god telling y'all to do things.

[Equinox]

Why do I always forget to preview when it counts?

EBWOP:

I'm

done talking about Jack. If my previous arguments have not convinced you, then any further discussion

with me

on this subject is just going to be pointless bickering.

So talking about this subject is pro-town but we're not talking about it anymore? Are we really going to shut down this conversation because one player said to?

[Equinox]

Got a thought I want to post up here before I go to bed.

So, questions.
1. Short deadline or long deadline?
2. Double-vote or immunity?
3. Do you agree that questions look better when there are three of them?

What was the purpose of these questions? Did they help you get a read on anyone?

[Equinox]

Nobody Special, I know you're a god and all, but us priests still like having our

demands

questions answered.

[Equinox]

This, too, sir:

By the way, when farside22 pointed out how Nobody Special did not vote Jack when he said he was lying, I immediately thought that Jack must have told him about his gambit in their private communication. If it had been me making the gambit, I would definitely have warned my god in advance and gotten him to cooperate. Jack would be a fool not to do so. Nobody Special, has Jack explained to you anything about a gambit?

[Equinox]

Simple. He's stirring the pot and throwing suspicion on me. If I were lynchable, I'd OMGUS. Since I can't die, he's not worth the vote.

I... I... What?

Do you or do you not think Jack is scum? I'm looking at your isolated posts, and all I see is you being wishy-washy. One would think you'd be the one with a stronger read on Jack than the rest of us what with the line of communication and all.

I just saw Zang, which makes this the third time (that I know of) he's logged on since his Me=Weird vote without saying anything. SPEAK.

[Equinox]

TMH's insistence on lynching Jack is distur.....wait...did he just...OMG HE DID. HE ACCUSED JACK OF BEING A JESTER. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

VOTE: THEMANHIMSELF

I don't see the issue here. I've been a jester before and you pretty much just say the most ridiculous things you can which is what Jack has been doing. It's unlikely that this set-up uses a jester but what's the harm in suggesting it? And did I ever say he was a jester or that I even thought he was a jester? No, I said I was worried it was possible. And what's scummy about any of that? If he's a jester then obviously I wouldn't want to lynch him which is apparently how most people feel right now. That being said, I don't think he's a jester and I want to lynch the shit out of him.

The problem is that your jester speculation was unprovoked, and usually if a game has a jester, there's some sort of warning about bastard modding beforehand.

Hmm. This post reads to me as honest confusion... which makes

me

confused because themanhimself's record is big enough that he shouldn't be displaying this kind of newbtell (or the tunneling).

I need to think about this.

[Equinox]

What's with all the referencing to ongoing games? You're giving me work.

Also, somebody explain to me why I'm going for this again.

Jack's upping the stakes makes no sense as a town gambit - he's either telling the straight truth or scum. Considering what we've seen from Fish and DGB, I'm thinkin its the former but I'll give it a real go in a bit

Considering that Jack increased the stakes by naming Nobody Special and themanhimself as scum buddies, what made you say he might be telling the "straight truth"? It doesn't look like it to me.

Jack is being provocative, and this should supposedly help him get reads, yet he himself said he could not tell who was scum and who was not.

Where did you see this? I'm having trouble finding it; he's named his suspects from what I can tell.

I also thought about what you said about him telling Nobody Special about the gambit in advance. What, in your opinion, would have been the benefits of telling him ahead of time? We don't know his alignment, after all.

---

I'm kind of lost at the moment. I see that themanhimself really believes in this Jack lynch as Fishythefish suggests, but the way he's answered people's questions bugs me; it's like he's throwing stuff into the bin from a meter away and then missing the bin. I need to figure out if that's honest or deliberate, and it looks like I need to metagame him for this sort of thing. Boo, work. Which I won't do because it's 4 in the morning and I'm sleep-deprived.

I'm not feeling the DrippingGoofball read. Unlike God of Useless Judgment over there, she's been posting her opinions of people. I'm warming up to Fishythefish, too; I'll have a use for our line of communication pretty soon.

TMH, where do you see my vote currently?

I have a recent scum Meta on TMH (on going game though, so I can't give details.)

He played rather similarly to this.

Your vote's currently on Jack. Which one's scum? Do you think both of them are scum?

Also, you stated that you wanted to know if this was "all an elaborate gambit," and if it wasn't obvious before, it's pretty obvious now that his story was a gambit. Where do you stand?

[Equinox]

Lady Lambdadelta, post 255 STAT.

themanhimself, I'm sorry, but if you didn't see how bloody obvious it was, then I have nothing to say to you. I can understand thinking that the Jack-NS PM exchange where they allegedly claimed scum to each other was real (I did at first), but when he changed his story with you, the game was up. Jack also doesn't explain jack when he does this kind of shit.

I am shutting this down

on my side

because arguing this with you is a waste of time. I see from the argument we had that we're both stone walls that aren't going to move, so there's no point in trying. All that would do is wall up this game.

[Equinox]

About town lists: Do people want me to share mine, or are you stupid enough to think that it's anti town? As scum, I can get a pretty good idea of who people see as protown without lists.

Why are you seeking our approval?

Trust me, I considered many possibilities before coming to that conclusion.

How were the other possibilities less likely than the conclusion you came to in post 256? hitogoroshi's and populartajo's explanations aren't that unlikely, no?

Insurance, and the possibility of learning more about Nobody Special's motives. With a gambit like this, there is always the risk that it leads to suspicion and a lynch starts to look possible. If that were to happen, Nobody Special could have saved Jack by explaining the gambit and that he was aware of it the whole time. How he reacted to the proposed gambit and whether he played along could've also given us a better read of him.

Hmm... The thought I had in mind was that Jack-town couldn't share with Nobody Special because he couldn't be sure about Nobody Special's alignment, which was why I wondered why you thought he would share beforehand.

And this is where I get confused (yet again). This post sounds like... Nobody Special is a safe place to go through for this kind of thing. Am I correct in this understanding?

Need to seriously read this game though; haven't been paying much attention, tbh.

Ironic, considering [REDACTED].

[Equinox]

Yay for thread spamming.

Feysal, who's scum?

That question also applies to those people who are promising catch-ups.

[Equinox]

Unvote, Vote: Nobody Special

Unvote, Vote: Feysal

Unvote, Vote: Lady Lambdadelta

In a nutshell: Nobody Special is scum, Feysal's 280 stinks, and Lady Lambdadelta is wishy-washy.

The purpose of 275 was to confirm whether or not I saw a slip, and right now, I will say that I'm not happy with Feysal's answer in the first part of his post. It comes off like scrambling to cover the hole. The second part, I did not ask for but will humor anyway; the stuff about claiming information roles through one's god is OK I guess, since that limits the amount of unnecessary information that gets out to scum, but this:

Even in the 1/3 chance he was not, he might still intervene to maintain a town appearance, since if he did not and allowed Jack to die, he would look suspect for it.

If the power role was night killed immediately after claiming something through his god, the god would look suspect for it.

Let's not go down this road. I get that this may be your thought process on the whole matter, but posting stuff like this makes it difficult later down the road to read the situation when it comes up, since you've just prescribed here what your thoughts are and how you'd read it.

Fuck. I hope that was coherent.

279 really reminds me of how someone (sorry, I don't care to check right now) said that Feysal takes too many words to get his point across. Though in this case I'd say he went off on a tangent to get his point across.

So I really desperately need sleep right now, so anything I need to do here is gonna wait. Hang tight till then.

[Equinox]

I slept for 12 hours. Best thing that has happened to me this week.

Let's not go down this road. I get that this may be your thought process on the whole matter, but posting stuff like this makes it difficult later down the road to read the situation when it comes up, since you've just prescribed here what your thoughts are and how you'd read it.

As I was saying: What Feysal did there was speculate on scum's actions in a situation before the situation came up. What's wrong with this is when the situation actually comes up, the fact that he made these speculations public and that the scum are aware of it screws up how we can read their reactions.

Since that's probably not very coherent either, let me put it in another way. There is a scummy player A who softclaims a power role, and as a result we all drop the case without explicitly saying so. A couple of us hope that scum shoot player A the power role so that we can move on to other scum reads. Player B comes in and says, "Well, scum probably aren't going to kill player A just so they can WIFOM us into lynching him." Boom! Player A survives because now he's still lynch bait.

---

What interests me here is that Lady Lambdadelta picks that part of my post instead of the part where I accuse him of being wishy-washy with regards to Jack and themanhimself. Hoping that I'd change my mind again and hop on someone else, did you?

And then there's this:

Jack, does Feysal=Andy?

Weird thing to pick on in Jack's 285.

My vote stays. The Witch of Certainty is most certainly scum.

---

Zang asks pretty useless questions.

Jack hasn't done any gambits in the games that I've played with him if he has then none of them are as elaborate as this. I really don't see much of a town motivation for what he's doing either. This is counterproductive for the town also. He may be getting reads but the rest of the town is distracted and doing fake scumhunting and discussion.

Yes, this is different from the other stuff I've seen Jack-town do, but the result has been pretty much the same. The reason I say there's town motivation to this is this particular gambit with him introducing inconsistencies to get reactions from specific people.

TMH's insistence on lynching Jack is distur.....wait...did he just...OMG HE DID. HE ACCUSED JACK OF BEING A JESTER.. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

VOTE: THEMANHIMSELF

I don't think he insisted on it, he just suggested.

Say what?

The only lynch themanhimself has pushed all day is Jack. I'm pretty sure that isn't "just suggested."

Jacks gambit confuses me too much. At first, I thought he was town but now I dont really see any pro-town motivitation for it.

Zang votes Jack, which isn't unexpected given his sentiments in that wall. But what I don't get is why he FoSed themanhimself. The times he mentioned themanhimself in his wall was to point out funky logic, and yet Zang came to the same conclusion that themanhimself did: that Jack's gambit didn't have town motivation and was, therefore, scummy.

---

hypocrite much?

No. I had a different line of thinking from hitogoroshi & co. when I voted Jack. The votes on Jack that came after me had reasons with which I disagreed; they were to determine which one of Nobody Special and Jack was scum, which was setting up a false dilemma. I did not like the reasoning behind those votes, but I didn't disagree with the general wagon.

Wow just wow Equinox is so much X then agreeing with with this is the second one I found:

I don't see the contradiction. But then again, it is my thought process, so I wouldn't see anything wrong with it.

My priority is to lynch scum mortals. Always. One way to do that is to find the scum god; however, at the point when I made those posts, people were putting too much emphasis on finding the scum god when that shouldn't have been the priority. I don't disagree with the idea that we should find the scum god, but if we're doing that before we search for mortals, that's not an efficient way to use our time.

Equinox: Why are you voting for TMH?

I voted themanhimself for pushing a Jack vs. Nobody Special dichotomy when it wasn't necessarily the case that one of them had to be scum. Sure, one of them had to be lying, but themanhimself was pushing further than that, and his dichotomy is a false dilemma. Pushing that is scummy.

Also if you know jack normally does gambits why did you vote for him?

I didn't vote him for the gambit; I voted him for his read of Lady Lambdadelta. I had a town read of Lady Lambdadelta at the time, and then he voted her without ever explaining it.

What reads did you garner from Jack's gambit?

To summarize from notes: themanhimself-scum, Lady Lambdadelta-town, Feysal-town, hitogoroshi-town, Nobody Special-scum.

Though looking at that again, that wasn't a very big list... and I've just 180ed on over half of it.

---

In case I didn't make it clear in my last couple of posts, with Nobody Special's and Lady Lambdadelta's votes, I'm pretty sure themanhimself is lynch bait. Fishythefish also made a good point in our discussions. I still have that meta read to do, but at this point I lean town on themanhimself.

I want to lynch either Feysal or Lady Lambdadelta.

More later.

[Equinox]

I just had a thought. Feysal and Nobody Special can't be scum together, but after post 281, I can swear that Nobody Special is scum. WTF. My mind is blown.

[Equinox]

@Equinox: You say that you feel TMH is scum, yet my voting him makes me scummy. I'm sorry, but I can't wrap my head around this reasoning. Please elaborate? Lack of sleep or no, you're acting contrary to the Town!Equi that I know and love, and so for the moment, you're on my scumlist.

Incorrect. I no longer feel that themanhimself is scum. The behavior surrounding him is questionable, which leads me to believe that he's become lynch bait; I realize there's a possibility that he's being bussed if he's scum, but either way, I'm not interested in lynching themanhimself right now.

Your voting him is scummy. When I asked you for your scum reads, you stated Andrius and SpyreX; it wasn't until much later and after most of the scummy stuff from themanhimself stopped that you voted him, and I find that questionable.

[Equinox]

Hrm, now I'm thinking equinox is more confused town about the Jack situation which contrasts my earlier reads.

Actually, you dropped TMH pretty fast there Equinox... you were so adamant about him being scum, and now you drop off him when real interest pops up?

This actually reads to me as you voting TMH as a means of separating the two of you from being connected, and then when the potential for TMH to be lynched arose, you hopped off him as quickly as you hopped on, and voted and FoS'd anyone who voted him (even though you did the same).

You call Nobody Special's opportunistic-as-hell vote "real interest"? You call the vote you made after I called you out on your wishy-washy reads of Jack and themanhimself "real interest"? And then you accuse me of chainsaw-defending themanhimself?

I'm trying very hard not to laugh here.

---

Okay, what the hell is with you lot drawing connections between people whose flips you don't even know?

themanhimself, if you want to "hold[ing] the town back with [your] single-mindedness," stop, drop, and roll out of your tunnel, and read the whole thread again. This is insane.

Lady Lambdadelta, if you were so sold on themanhimself, why did it take so long for you to vote him? What's themanhimself's scum motivation for tunneling Jack for this long?

[Equinox]

Actually, here's a better question for the both of you: Outside of {Equinox, Jack, Lady Lambdadelta, themanhimself}, who's scum?

[Equinox]

Well, if Jack's gambit didn't toss loads of shit into this town, this whole thing with themanhimself et al. sure did.

I stayed on Jack because I was convinced he was scum, until I started to see what people (namely you) were talking about with reference to the gambit. Since the Gambit was outed, Jack has started to play more like a townie, so I dropped him.

If you recall, I had been suspicious of the way TMH handled his case on Jack, even going as far as to FoS him for tunnelling (I was still voting Jack, because I was still under the impression that his motives were scummy.)

The scum motivation for TMH tunneling Jack was that Jack seemed to be a rather easy lynch at the time. Just use a LAL policy and go under the claim of "this will provide the most info" and you have your case on Jack. What makes him scummy is that now that the Jack case has died, and it is no longer a easy lynch, TMH seems to be slinking off it. He is slowly backing off.

Hmm...

Jack starts getting out of his gambit at around post 239, where he's posting reads but still not explaining him. You start considering the possibility of a Jack gambit and the themanhimself wagon at post 176, jump off and vote themanhimself at post 278, and

keep your FoS on Jack

. Right, you dropped Jack like a hot potato.

Fair enough RE: themanhimself. I see that you did voice suspicions of how themanhimself was tunneling.

And...

Dammit. Why the hell does your third paragraph have to make sense, now I'm all confused. hitogoroshi, you too.

He is guilty of:
Tunnelling
Wagon Hopping

Distancing

How the fuck do you call distancing without scum flips. Someone needs to teach me this skill.

I happen to find it scummy of TMH abandoning his Jack case like this, after being the most fervent out of everyone trying to lynch him. I find it more interesting that you are now giving him a way out to say "Sorry I was being stupid guys! Here, let me follow your wagon Equinox!"

You've got to be fucking kidding me, Lady Lambdadelta. Yes, I was the most fervent in trying to lynch him, and I 180ed the case when I saw that there was weird stuff going on at the tail end of the wagon. To suggest that I'm trying to give him an out by forcing him to get reads outside of his stupid tunnel is ludicrous.

[Equinox]

I'm about ready to put my hands up in the air and just admit scum, even if I'm lying out of my ass.

This is stupid.

[Equinox]

Pulling these out of my wall, since it's getting really big.

Jack: Why did you vote Lady Lambdadelta in post 25? "I forgot" isn't an answer, by the way. Oh, yeah, I don't understand your FoS on farside22, either; her post was reasonable.

SpyreX: What do you mean by post 214?

[Equinox]

While I'm at it, post 217 from SpyreX in response to Nobody Special:

Yes, I do.

I think you screwed up and this is going to pan out in a perfect storm of WOOOAH.

I'd rather not waste a lynch to get there.

Jack claims Nobody Special claimed scum, an allegation Nobody Special denies. Nobody Special states that the only communication that went between him and Jack at this point was Nobody Special's request for a claim and Jack's 2-3 word response. Why did you think Nobody Special was lying?

[Equinox]

All right. I didn't think I'd be doing this while being an angry, hissing cat, but I have to do this now or I'll never get it done.

Spoiler: The Wall of Doom

Apologies for the wall. Also, some of this is out of order. +props to anyone who reads to the end, I'll love you forever.

---

While I'm berating Lady Lambdadelta for looking for associative tells without flips, I will go ahead and start this reread wall with the following: Lady Lambdadelta cannot be scum with Nobody Special. That's helpful and all, since Nobody Special is never going to flip, I'm sure. Dammit.

Did anyone ever explain the benefits of 50, 52, etc., were? I still don't get it, even with this from hitogoroshi.

I like Me=Weird for pointing out that calculating probabilities are useless.

Well, hitogoroshi, that Jack wagon wasn't thrilling because you were trying to figure out which of the 3 gods was scum when Jack's flip would have provided no such information.

Jack (4): Equinox, Lady Lambdadelta, hitogoroshi, Andrius

This is just more evidence that Jack is lying.

Interesting fact: themanhimself was watching the thread and not posting up until this point.

Hmm... Posts 132 and 135 from themanhimself have some trippy logic.

Post 140 also has trippy logic and goes for the Jack vs. Nobody Special dichotomy.

Oh, yeah, post 145 continues the trippy logic. Post 151 continues the LAL tunnel.

Fun fact: 2 minutes. Lady Lambdadelta and themanhimself aren't scum together. Useful, eh? I need to draw a diagram.

DrippingGoofball continues to chase lurkers/inactives (and again) like she's MeMe.

Jack upped the ante and still you didn't see it. I'm confused, to say the least.

Someone remind me to read up themanhimself's more recent games to see if he's as newbie as I think he is.

I'm surprised how many people fell for Jack's gambit. Seriously, guys. And by "guys," I mean Feysal.

Don't get me wrong, I want to lynch Jack because he's obviously lying and obviously scum and for no other reason. It's a bonus that even on the off-chance we're wrong, we still get to know which god is scum.

Hmm... Wait a minute... Haven't I read this line before...?

If we're wrong then we know who the scum god is which is totally worth it because we can get reads from him.

Okay. The problem I had was I felt the scum reads on Jack and themanhimself had to be mutually exclusive (i.e., they can't both be scum). I still believe that to be the case, actually.

Here in post 176, I run into the same problem again. Despite Lady Lambdadelta saying what he did in this post, his vote was still on Jack.

I'm getting the newbvibes from themanhimself. Ironically, an old quote from Shadow Dancer comes to mind, that we can't dismiss newb tells as town tells because newbs can be scum, too. Oh, man, what the hell is going on with my head right now as I'm writing this...

Gah, Me=Weird is being Me=Weird, which is unreadable.

I should note, too:

I'm trying to shut down a potential war of walls in post 189.
themanhimself doesn't like that I'm trying to do that and... accuses me of going on a power trip?
I again try to shut down the war of walls.
Much later, themanhimself states again his dislike that I am shutting down the Jack gambit line of discussion.
Again, I shut it down.

I should also note, too:

Incident 1 of themanhimself missing the trash bin.
Incident 2 of themanhimself missing the trash bin.

Post 198 from themanhimself makes me think he genuinely believes in the Jack case, which is a town tell. Looking back, the case against themanhimself didn't have that much support, and there was indeed more support for a Jack lynch at this point. Also, I notice that themanhimself felt threatened by the fact that I was trying to shut down the Jack wagon, as evidenced by his "Do we do this just because one player says so?" statements earlier. Hmm...

From what I know of my own history, I've done that before as newbtown. Dammit. My head! IT'S USELESS IT'S ALL USELESS

I'm surprised at DrippingGoofball's question to themanhimself. She's played enough to have seen a Jack-scum gambit, no?

Well no one can deny that Jack has been

scummy regardless of his motivations and

actual alignment

, so what's better, eliminating one of the scummiest players from discussion or focusing on him?

Wait... What? And not just the emphases I put in there, either.

Also of note is that themanhimself has yet to call Equinox scum despite the work she was doing to stop the Jack wagon.

Hmm... Suddenly, the memory of Andrius comes to mind. Where is he, anyway?

Fishythefish votes Zang without mentioning themanhimself, but he does talk about Jack. Interesting for reasons I'm noting in a (more than a) few lines.

Not really helpful, DrippingGoofball.

Feysal has a tendency to go stream-of-consciousness, and this post borders on TMI... which makes no sense in a day-talk game, really.

More waffling from Nobody Special.

Post 216 is interesting from Nobody Special; he's suspicious of SpyreX for thinking Nobody Special is lying, but Nobody Special can't bring himself to be suspicious of Jack for lying. I guess I can get the whole "Jack's a gambit player, so it's null" thing, but Nobody Special continues to call it anti-town and not quite scummy.

Yep, this from Nobody Special stinks.

---

To spam the thread later:

Vote: Andrius

Unfortunately I think he's town :/

Why did you think Andrius was town at this point?

It's unlikely that this set-up uses a jester but what's the harm in suggesting it?

That being said, I don't think he's a jester and I want to lynch the shit out of him.

I am once again reminded that I can't read people, at all, because this stinks.

Oh, and I come in guns a-blazin' to say that I get "honest confusion" vibes from themanhimself for post 231. I'm confused by Equinox, too, guys.

DAMN YOU PEOPLE AND YOUR ONGOING GAMES

I figured I'd leave my vote on earlier to at least let it do something before I changed it in the same post I made it.

Explain, please.

Get out of my court. Um, I mean,

what a useful question

, I want to know, too. See Feysal above.

This thread indeed needs more Benmage.

DrippingGoofball completely misses the other reads people were passing around and votes populartajo for something in the QT for which other possibilities were equally likely. I believe I'm still waiting on an answer for this, so I'll hang onto this.

Andrius is town. I will vouch for this

until he makes a mistkae

.

Wait, what?

Also, Benmage is town.

HOW?

Okay,

now

I'm feeling the DrippingGoofball-scum read. But what the fuck, Nobody Special is scum, too. They can't both be scum.

SpyreX is the exception to this, due to him taking the stance that Jack is town. It is also odd that Jack missed this. He called Andrius scum for knowing he was town, but he has not mentioned SpyreX at all.

Wow, talk about... talking about 2 different things and tying them together.

We're getting closer...

At this point, I spam up my QuickTopic with Fishythefish. He explains to me that he feels themanhimself is town for banging on the Jack case for so long and getting flak for it when scum would've backed out. I agreed.

Again I don't understand the FoS Jack/vote themanhimself combination from Lady Lambdadelta here in post 278.

Of course, the scum god and priests knowing it was a gambit would've enabled them to give calculated responses. Spotting those might even have been easier than trying to separate townies wanting to lynch Jack for his lie from scum who see easy prey.

This still reads to me as trying to cover up a potential slip.

Fun fact: Feysal and Nobody Special are not scum together.

You know, with these kinds of reads, I'm almost inclined to think Nobody Special is a town god. And again, I have trouble with that because his posts have been fairly scummy. Dammit.

Feysal's post is TMfI.

Feysal's last paragraph there is reasonable, and it matches with what Fishythefish said, too; scum don't like pressure and prefer to back off. On the other hand, I have hitogoroshi, who says that's what scum would do to shake off the pressure.

Beatrice's laughing face comes to mind.

DAMMIT.

Post 280 is still disgusting.

As is post 281 from Nobody Special, who nonchalantly shifts his weight to the themanhimself wagon. A sudden thought came to me that this might be tied to his power; I gotta check the role PMs as soon as I'm done.

We all know Zang is scum, so moving on. No, wait. He's doing that Vote Jack/FoS themanhimself thing, too. What the hell is going on here?

---

I am almost done and almost ready to summarize this shit! WOOHOO.

Hrm, now I'm thinking equinox is more confused town about the Jack situation which contrasts my earlier reads. I'm nowhere near ready to unvote Jack but I agree that LLD unovting Jack and going to me is a very, very weird move. I've seen scum pull that exact same move when they were bussing another scum and wanted to get off the bandwagon. If it looks like the LLD lynch is where we're gonna end up further into the day I might consider switching my vote only if I think it could help confirm Jack as scum. Forgive my single-mindedness but I've never had a read this solid.

Here's what's wrong with this:

I hate it when I call someone town and they turn around and call me town for calling them town. Weird funky OMGUS going on there. From this, I gather 2 rather important things about themanhimself that I need to investigate and find out in a few hours:

1. OMGUR is a newbie tell. After a while, one becomes jaded and don't really feel it anymore. I am about to read some themanhimself games. If he displays newbtells, then I will reevaluate his posts again (yes, I will probably die while reading this thread) and try to figure out newbtown or newbscum. Which... is difficult for me. But doable. Probably.
2. Some players are really prone to tunneling. The one town game I have of themanhimself does not show this, so I will hunt down other recent games to see if he's tunneled recently. I have a particular game in mind I want to check, too.

Um, yeah. Placeholder read.

Skipping past my argument with Lady Lambdadelta for the moment, as it's too recent and is still raw.

By the way, hitogoroshi's insistence of his town read on me makes me really paranoid. I have to go check on a couple of things before I can pass verdict on this.

Okay, SUMMARY TIME IS GO.

tl;dr

UNVOTE:

Scum: Feysal, Zang
Pending: Andrius*, Benmage, DeathRowKitty, hitogoroshi*, Lady Lambdadelta*, SpyreX, themanhimself*

Spoiler: Summary from above wall of the not-really-case on themanhimself

• Crappy logic (unfortunately, a null tell)
• False dilemma (scum)
• Unprovoked jester speculation and subsequent backpedal (scum)
• Hedging bets (scum)
• Lashes out against people who don't agree with him (newbtown)
• Attempts to launch war of walls (...swingy. On the one hand, frustrated town will do this and demand that the line of discussion be opened; on the other hand, scum LOVE war of walls and will start one wherever possible)
• Genuine belief in case against Jack (town)
• 2 incidents of misinterpreting/improper responding to posts (need to see if he has a habit of this)
• Post 201 (scum)
• Post 242 (I have no fucking idea, guys.)
• "Equinox is probably town" (swingy as well, pending metagame)

Looking at that list makes me depressed, since I'm really confused right now. I'm hoping further reading will sort this out.

I'd also take this moment to say that if themanhimself is scum, Lady Lambdadelta is not scum; their interactions don't read like bussing.

...

I actually am kinda useless until I get this stuff done. Be back in a few hours.

Last fun fact: This took me nearly 3 hours.

[Equinox]

I just realized I have more stuff to pull out of that wall.

But before I do that:

Jack: Why did you vote Lady Lambdadelta in post 25? "I forgot" isn't an answer, by the way. Oh, yeah, I don't understand your FoS on farside22, either; her post was reasonable.

Answer would be great, thank you muchly.

Vote: Andrius

Unfortunately I think he's town :/

Why did you think Andrius was town at this point?

Italicized content is my addition:

I figured I'd leave my vote on

[themanhimself]

earlier to at least let it do something before I changed it in the same post I made it.

Explain, please.

Andrius is town. I will vouch for this

until he makes a mistkae

.

Also, Benmage is town.

What?
How?

[Equinox]

I'm in the middle of responding to stuff right now, but I felt that I had to pull this gem out for special consideration.

Besides Jack, he's the closest thing I have to a scum read. Why can't I find someone scummy that's voting the same person as me?

How the heck does that work? themanhimself finds Jack scummy because he can't see any town motivation for Jack to do what he did; you find Jack scummy for pretty much the same reason, yet you have themanhimself down as a "scum read."

LOGIC ERROR DETECTED
VOTE: Zang

[Equinox]

LLD is female. The "Lady" seems like a bit of a clue :p

IT'S A TRAP

---

RE: Feysal's post 279

Feysal asked Jack why he didn't confide details about his gambit to Nobody Special. I forget if he said this following a question or spontaneously, but he did state his belief that it would have been of benefit for Jack to do so. It was in that post where I felt the slip occurred; Jack-town confiding a gambit to Nobody Special-town is a good thing, but Jack-town doing so to Nobody Special-scum would be harmful. At that early stage of the game, any sensible town would have been guarded towards their god and understand that other town would be similarly cautious. Feysal's assumption about Jack and Nobody Special led me to believe he slipped, and I questioned him about it.

His response is what you see in post 279.

Of course, the scum god and priests knowing it was a gambit would've enabled them to give calculated responses. Spotting those might even have been easier than trying to separate townies wanting to lynch Jack for his lie from scum who see easy prey.

The first sentence sounds like this idea about the scum god and calculated responses was an afterthought. The second sentence is an attempt to justify the first sentence; the term "cognitive dissonance" comes to mind here.

---

Spoiler: Response to Feysal

What do you mean I fell for it? I believe I was the first to mention Jack's reputation for town gambits, some posts after themanhimself had speculated on it being a scum gambit. Having seen a scum gambit from Jack, I was left wondering which one it was here, since I could not see his purpose.

The trash bin ain't that far from the door...

Look at the following two quotes from post 158:

• Did I get this right? You said that Nobody Special claimed scum to you, and you are accusing DrippingGoofball of being scum?

  "Her?" I got it right all right. You are accusing DrippingGoofball and her priest Andrius of being scum, in blatant contradiction to your claim.

If you felt the need to ask Jack at that point to explain his contradiction, you fell for the gambit. That's it. I did not call you scummy for it; as someone else mentioned and as I know from experience, Jack's gambits often catch townies who haven't yet played with him. I just felt that it was interesting to note, since I thought it was fairly obvious at that point that Jack wasn't entirely serious; I guess I was wrong to assume.

I admit that I am verbose. Does this matter?

The manner in which you are verbose matters.

It was a mistake on my part. I wrote in #279 that we might have a better chance of finding scum among those who jumped off Jack, and posted before checking who those people were. Then I realized it was just you and hitogoroshi, and posted that as a correction, since you are one of my better town reads.

Should've checked the vote counts before posting that... now I see you and hitogoroshi were the only ones who jumped off Jack, and

I did not intend to come off like I was accusing you

.

Also, SpyreX was not really answering the question he was asked. He explained why he thought Jack was town, when the question was why he thought Jack was telling the straight truth.

I went back and dug that up. SpyreX answered my question.

[Equinox]

THIS GAME IS GOING TO BE THE DEATH OF ME

(Translation: I'm catching up late tonight.)

[Equinox]

Unvote

Today is the day, I fucking swear to myself. The longer I put this off, the worse it's going to get, and I do not want to replace out.

Everything I said I'd do since Sunday is put on hold until Friday. I've got too much stuff going on right now and not enough hours. My priority here is to catch up and see what's going on, and I'll go from there.

[Equinox]

Fishythefish: In what order did you set up your QuickTopics?

I finally finished up to page 26.

Kill the following: CryMeARiver, DeathRowKitty, Feysal, themanhimself

I need to reread the DrippingGoofball and populartajo exchange. I went back and forth on populartajo a couple of times; he's giving off the "Why can't people see my POV? WHY?!" vibe when scum have a lot more incentive to back off, since it's becoming clear there's tunnel vision going on. It's really easy to kind of step back a bit, take a day off or so, and then come back with an apology, and no one would take fault in that. On the other hand, we have the allegation that he's focusing on self-meta arguments in his QuickTopic, which is getting really desperate. Hmm...

DeathRowKitty's page 2 iso shows scum naming but no scum hunting. While reading, I got the sense that DeathRowKitty was just lazy, but that iso is bothersome. Wagon ho!

VOTE: DeathRowKitty

themanhimself's "But I had Fishythefish pegged as scum god from the very beginning!" bothers me a lot, as does the revelation that he's not posting in the QuickTopic very often and that he's seriously tunneled there as well.

themanhimself: How are your Jack, Lady Lambdadelta, and DeathRowKitty reads going? What are your reads on everyone else?

Feysal's "So, yeah, I'm

totally

cautious with my vote, but people are getting annoyed, so HERE'S A VOTE ON SPYREX even though I dun really suspect him" bothers the hell out of me. I want to lynch Feysal pretty badly right now.

CryMeARiver's DeathRowKitty vote stinks, especially given the state of CryMeARiver's iso. Go, read it. It won't take you very long.

[Equinox]

Hmm... I was going somewhere with that, but apparently I goofed and misread.

I don't trust you. I'm a paranoid player by nature and believe that talking things out that bother me in open is more productive.
I asked about Mina specifically to you because of her constant, I'm chatting up with fishy in the QT instead of here post that bothers me.

You stated you weren't really going to be checking the QT

so I figured it was more useful talking here.

At what point did Fishythefish tell you this, farside22?

[Equinox]

hey hito, plz link me to another game where you have made town lists and

you have put yourself in the list as well

.

How is the bolded part significant?

[Equinox]

I can't focus and I need to get my priorities straight and focus on getting into colleges guys.

Good luck!

[Equinox]

Actually I like it very much, and I like very much the message he left in the QT. I'm a very fruity and charismatic god and my followers are very close knit, except the scummy one.

May I ask what he said in the QuickTopic? CryMeARiver didn't say much of substance in the thread, so I'm puzzled at your read of him, especially after that DeathRowKitty vote he dropped with no explanation.

It was in the very first post he made in the QT. He stated to the effect he would be using the public thread more then the QT.

This is interesting, Fishythefish. Why didn't I get the same message in my QuickTopic?

[Equinox]

Nobody Special: How's that read going?

[Equinox]

Prod: Nobody Special

[Equinox]

Sooo post 700 was an in thread code with my God.... But it appears Equinox knows this....HOW?? Did Equinox just scum slip?

I don't. I'd been waiting for 12:51 PM to pass so I could 48-hour prod Nobody Special and get him posting here and not Mish Mash.

[Equinox]

Yes. With a twisted face. Does it matter if I adorn the prod or not?

[Equinox]

5. Any player may request a prod on any other player, so long as it’s not unreasonable by saying in the thread in bold Prod: <player>

"Not unreasonable" = 48 hours

I've always followed that rule in a game that allowed player-requested prods. (I do it in my modded games, as well.)

[Equinox]

Benmage, if you don't believe me, do these:

1. Iso Nobody Special in this game
1a. See that he caught up to page 25 and promised reads, comments, etc. later
1b. Also see the iso that is quite lacking in content
2. Go to Nobody Special's profile and view his posts

[Equinox]

Nobody Special, my head hurts like hell, and I want less work to do. How does themanhimself's play in this game match what you know of his town meta?

[Equinox]

Oh, and hi Feysal. You probably should post something today.

[Equinox]

Leave it to me to not phrase shit correctly.

How

does themanhimself's play in this game match what you know of his town meta?

EDIT: Welcome, Corvuus! Are you scum?

[Equinox]

SpyreX is all by his lonesome on that wagon. No wonder he's insane.

[Equinox]

SpyreX, you're sitting on a wagon that nobody is supporting (and DrippingGoofball will deflate), and you're not opposing the current wagon. You've got to have

some

reason for that.

NOW, you'll notice that DRK isn't there. Because that's town. Town fire-fluff but town.

Do you still hold this position?

[Equinox]

If neither of the two top wagons please you, then convince us. What do you think of DrippingGoofball's 702?

[Equinox]

FEYSAL WAGON. DO WANT.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is my chance of a lifetime. I'm declaring my love of DTMaster right here and right now.

Unvote, Vote: Feysal

(I have another reason for this: For some reason, it's easier to get a wagon on DeathRowKitty than it is to get one on Feysal. I'd like to know why.)

DRK: Actually, it seems like your play style and meta has changed. You actually seem to be scumhunting and more interested in lynching scum than just trying to 'omgus/save yourself'. Whats going on?

edit note due to DKR posting: Regardless of what you do in a game, it reveals your nature. If you don't agree with me then that is fine but your style tends to inherently strike me as scummy which is why I am interested in what you are doing this game as per my point above. i.e. you tend to be inherently scummy yet you are making an effort to be town. so.... as above... whats up?
Corv

Uh... what was the point of this question, Corvuus?

[Equinox]

...did I just italicize instead of quote?

DRK: Actually, it seems like your play style and meta has changed. You actually seem to be scumhunting and more interested in lynching scum than just trying to 'omgus/save yourself'. Whats going on?

edit note due to DKR posting: Regardless of what you do in a game, it reveals your nature. If you don't agree with me then that is fine but your style tends to inherently strike me as scummy which is why I am interested in what you are doing this game as per my point above. i.e. you tend to be inherently scummy yet you are making an effort to be town. so.... as above... whats up?
Corv

[Equinox]

Woah. More back-and-forth. Give me a bit to read them, but I'm gonna address this in the meantime.

Equinox: Well, I want a response so I have to ask a question but since I'm less sure of DRK's style-response I figured I would leave it open-ended for whatever he felt like since style of question influences style of answer.

What sort of response were you looking for from DeathRowKitty? How were you going to read his style of response, and does it point to his alignment? What was the point of asking something like, "OMG, you're better than the last time I saw you; what happened?!" (Yes, I know I just repeated the question. Answer it properly.)

I agree with dtm that fishy could be the scum god.

An answer to hitogoroshi would be nice.

[Equinox]

Oh, we've got a linguist in the house. Carry on. Let me know what you get.

By the way, Nobody Special-scum has a habit of outing his buddies one way or another. Pressure him into posting, here or QuickTopics.

[Equinox]

Phone posting FTW. Trying to quote stuff on this is a pain in the butt, so please bear with me. I can link later if necessary.

Sorry I'm all over the place. Trying to get this all in before intermission ends.

Also, holy hot damn, page 32. Later.

DeathRowKitty: You mentioned that you asked for Lady Lambdadelta's opinion of the Jack-Nobody Special interaction because s/he essentially ignored it in his/her comments. Why only Lady Lambdadelta? IIRC, there were others who didn't comment either (e.g., Equinox).

I think Corvuus skimmed DTMaster's posts. It can't be the Kool-Aid. (Alas, I am ninja'd by the man himself. Har har.)

DTMaster: I disagree with you about Feysal leaving a voting record to be pro-town. You do that when you're suspicious of the person, not after when you're all, "Eh, he's not scummy anymore, but I'll drop this here now so y'all don't accuse me of never voting." He sounds like he got caught doing something wrong and scrambling to correct it.

[Equinox]

I'll have to iso Equinox and read a bit more but I guess you being on a phone explains you 'parroting/ninjad' what DTmaster said despite it not really making sense. That will have to wait for a few bit though.

For the record, that wasn't a parrot; I was reading back a few pages before the performance started, saw your post, wrote that, and then the lights went out and I put away the phone. An hour or so later, it was intermission, so I took my phone out and continued reading to see that DTMaster got to you first.

Right. Page 32 and now, apparently, 33.

[Equinox]

Right, then.

By the way, Nobody Special-scum has a habit of outing his buddies one way or another. Pressure him into posting, here or QuickTopics.

Please, guys, get this guy posting in this thread. He is absolutely useless to me if all he's doing is hiding in his QuickTopics. I'd like to be able to talk with him sometime before I get shot, thanks.

---

Corvuus: As soon as you get the link to your QuickTopic with Fishythefish, can you please tell me as much as possible about the content of the posts in there?

Oh, so you say you didn't read DTMaster.

The

only thing

i get from DTMaster is his slightly abnormal obsession with Fishy being scum God and shortening deadlines.

Don't make blanket statements until you know what's going on.

---

Having to go back and check every detail of a vague back-and-forth argument makes for a sleepy and grumpy Equinox.

I see no problem with the progression of farside22's suspicion of DeathRowKitty. That's me looking from post 397 onward until the FoS.

I would consider you to be town based on other parts but since there IS day talk scum chat, I can not discount the difference in play style from 1. previous game(s) to this game, 2. early game this game ('laziness') to 'being wagoned/voted' this game.

If this is still not plain enough; your play strikes me as town but i can not discount possibility of coaching, etc. so I am not sure. I am not voting you so take that as you will.

Dude, how much more can you hedge your bets?

Also, consider this: How likely do you think scum would be coaching DeathRowKitty-scum right now? His wagon is close to lynch. Wouldn't it be more prudent for them to just bus if he's scum?

---

Apparently, Corvuus's concerns about DeathRowKitty bridge previous and current games. Corvuus claims he's looking at intragame consistency, and DeathRowKitty is concerned with Corvuus's previous metagame of him. I'm tired and don't really want to read yet another game, but I'll indulge my compulsion anyway; what game are you talking about, and is this relevant to our game?

Likewise the discussion in my QT support a NS town read.

Is this because he passed messages back and forth between you and someone else in their entirety?

Remind me in a couple of days to get back to this thought; it's related but gagged.

---

Thoughts on DeathRowKitty: DeathRowKitty is pushing, in his death throes, a nigh-impossible lynch. In addition, I get the feel that he genuinely believes farside22 is scum. On the other hand, this is pretty much a repeat of populartajo, and that worries me. I need to take a breather and weigh these thoughts, see which side of the scale tips.

That said, Feysal wagon needs some loving. If it cannot happen today, please push it tomorrow.

Another thought coming in a separate post.

[Equinox]

Preview edit: DeathRowKitty, fair enough on the Lady Lambdadelta point. Thanks for the link.

---

We have 5 days to discuss this.

If my understanding is correct, each of DrippingGoofball's rewards can be granted only once every 4 days, and she can bestow only one gift per day.

The rewards are, needless to say, powerful. If at all possible, I want the town to have control over this. I have two reasons for this: 1) DrippingGoofball has to post the decision in public anyway, which means there is no chance to keep the recipient hidden from scum, so there isn't a point to keeping the decision-making process secret; and 2) we get to watch how the decision is made. Scum would love to have either of those rewards, and I believe they are going to try to rig the process their way. Make it a public election and we get to analyze people's decisions right here without having to rely on DrippingGoofball to reveal what goes on in her QuickTopics.

That said, there is the option of passing. I can think of a couple of good reasons why we should pass on Day 1; however, we have the revelation from DrippingGoofball that these powers are actually useful in the Day 4-6 range, when things start coming down to the wire. That should be around the time that the cooldown wears off if these powers are granted Days 1 and 2; therefore, it would be a waste not to grant today.

Uh, that just brings me back to square one, doesn't it? Okay. The point of all this:

I want DTMaster to receive NK immunity.

Yes, I called Zang scum earlier. Mina's piece of Zang metagame had me thinking, and DTMaster's play thus far has essentially redeemed his slot entirely and then some. He is playing a very strong, analytical game, and at the rate he's going, he is going to get his face shot. I want him to be around for at least another day to continue analyzing the game to death. I have seen him nab slippery scum; I have high hopes he will be able to do the same here.

[Equinox]

Oh, great. The guy who tunneled to the point of blindness got replaced by the guy who WIFOMs himself out of everything. Kill Corvuus, too.

DRK: I'm still not sure why you are attacking me if you are town. You're basically encouraging me to vote you and I'm not sure why you would do this when the stated position of farside, etc. is that your actions are 'scummy', etc. and that you are scum that must die and I'm not agreeing with the final conclusion based on my prior experience with you. So the question is, do you actually care what I really think or are you just generating noise?

Do you really wish me to just agree with Farside's view of you this game? Do you want me to lynch you?

I'm still not sure why you think DeathRowKitty

can't

attack you if he's town. He's basically looking for scum, and the only way to really do that is to get reactions out of you. Threatening to OMGUS him when you claim that you can't vote him because you aren't sure if he's scum is terribad.

I don't have a case on DRK, nor am I building one, and what meta argument that DRK is scum are you talking about? If you actually read what I wrote, DRK-meta and his actions do not fit scum, I'm confused/intrigued by this but I can not discount the existence of scum day talk. If scum day talk did not exist at all, then I'd say DRK is more likely town based on his actions, not just meta considerations.

If you're going to excuse every single town read you've got by saying there's scum day talk, you are not going to get anywhere in this game. Day talk is powerful, but there are limits to what it can do.

DTmaster and Equinox: You both are interesting in that you have gambits and plays and are either 'smart' town or 'smart' scum trying to lead town.

Even your town reads are mired deep in the sea of WIFOM! Think about what the two of us are saying and how any of it benefits scum. We both probably have an agenda (I know I do); what's the agenda?

Equinox: I can make blanket statements since that is how you get reactions. If DGB or DTmaster flubs their response, does it really matter if I am 'fully understanding all 800+ posts'? No. In fact, i can literally say whatever I deem necessary and you can judge why I am saying it but by saying outrageous things you definitely get a response.

Considering that your "reaction test" consisted of misrepresenting DTMaster's points, I don't see how you could read their reactions. They're not going to flub it; after all, it's there in the thread, and scum don't make stuff up as they go because they need to be consistent. The response you would've gotten from both town and scum was, "Hey, you're doing it wrong." That's what you got.

With regards to 'hedging' my bets. I'm not sure of DRK's alignment. I'm not going to vote someone who I don't actually think is definite scum and i'm not going to defend someone who may be scum. If you claim I am hedging, then why are both you (DTmaster, Equinox) going for non-DRK (Feysal?)?

All right, stop right there.

You aren't sure of DeathRowKitty's alignment. For all the talk you've made so far, all we're left sitting with is a null read of DeathRowKitty. If I got this situation down correctly, you've got a townish read of him but fully discount it because of the possibility that scum are coaching him; therefore, you can't really accuse him (except you just did above) or really defend him (except you just did above).

Well, then, time to get sure, methinks.

Accusing us of hedging is silly. Hedging is, "Well, I mean, he

could

be scum, but he could be town, too..." We're saying outright that Feysal is scummier than DeathRowKitty.

[Equinox]

Nobody Special, you stated earlier that DeathRowKitty is scum, yet just now you stated that you have no reason to move off the Corvuus wagon, despite the fact that DeathRowKitty has an actual viable wagon going.

How do you figure that?

Also, answer to my question regarding themanhimself's meta would be cool.

[Equinox]

Also, I have very little experience playing with TMH, so nothing useful there.

(To the ladies and gentlemen in the audience, I have not-inadmissible evidence that proves otherwise but cannot reveal. I'm going to keep an eye on Nobody Special... as always. Sigh.)

[Equinox]

Hold on. I goofed. The evidence

is

inadmissible. Ignore 846.

[Equinox]

Fellow followers of Fishythefish: Has he posted in your QuickTopics recently?

(P.S I'm sorry about not posting ANY content. I've been distracted for a while now. I will find time to post a sufficient case on certain people... but that's not now >.<)

This was Saturday. When will "not now" be over?

Also, Feysal and Mina need to post moar. Once every couple of days is not enough to satiate my hunger for posts. Not to mention Feysal's entry in my notes is rather lacking in terms of his reads of the game. (The same can be said of Corvuus and Nobody Special as well, but whatever.)

[Equinox]

Andrius, I have to disagree there. DeathRowKitty's wagon has swelled to L-3; if he's scum, they'd have bussed him by now. (That said, I'm still not resolved on the DeathRowKitty issue for precisely this reason.)

[Equinox]

Just came in here to say the following:

YES A FEYSAL WAGON GO GO GO

[Equinox]

And then I realize that I didn't see DrippingGoofball jump to DTMaster.



...I'll go away now.

[Equinox]

I can't stop giggling at hitogoroshi's picture.

Can YOU guess why?

No. What DTMaster said was unwise, but it makes sense.

[Equinox]

Give me a bit, and when I'm not trying to write detailed reports about the shit that is going on in Egypt, and keep it current and up to date, I'll get back to you.

Fair enough, and keep up the good work~

(Side note: I think we're looking at some significant time zone difference as well, since my timestamp says Saturday evening. Eh.)

[Equinox]

Aw, hell. The conclusion for DTMaster-scum can't be

that

easy.

...whelp. I gotta do some rereading tonight, then.

[Equinox]

SpyreX and DRK come to mind immediately, for third maybe Lady Lambdadelta... though she is but one of my null reads. I've still to do that ISO read on her, and others too.

Now or never, guys. Please lynch Feysal.

[Equinox]

Fishythefish, you won't be able to get a wagon going on Lady Lambdadelta. That much I can guarantee you. If you think DeathRowKitty is scum, I don't see a reason for you to not join that bandwagon now but instead try to roll a new one 5 days before deadline.

[Equinox]

Also, I thought I was the witch of certainty here :3

You're going against the Endless Sorcerer here. Also, this is my territory, for I have claimed it.

[Equinox]

I have a role that doesn't allow you grant me BP
due to action resolution (I Think). Don't bother protecting me either. It cannot work on me.

Why did you claim this now?

[Equinox]

I spy with my little Eye... EQUINOX IN THEME PARK.

FTFY

Your case: What else is there to say except for "HELL YES"? lol

In class right now, so in-depth comments will have to wait.

Actually, I'll drop this question before I go:

What do you guys think are the chances of Corvuus and Feysal being scum together?

Preview: Good God, we're not playing in the Marathon Day forum.

[Equinox]

Unvote

L-4

I need to catch up

and

understand what the heck's going on. The speed of this thing is scary, and the last thing I want is for the day to end before I get my last word in.

Be back later this evening.

I have a job interview in the morning,

Good luck, sir!

[Equinox]

I've been juggling this thought around.

What do you guys think are the chances of Corvuus and Feysal being scum together?

If I am judging the wagoning situation correctly:

Spoiler: I'm lying to myself if I think this is in any way coherent

• We had a Zang wagon that went up to 3 votes and then died with DTMaster's entry into the game.
• This was followed by a populartajo wagon led by DrippingGoofball. This, too, went up to 3 votes (DrippingGoofball 432, Andrius 462, and hitogoroshi 501). As a side note, DrippingGoofball did vote populartajo before voting for Zang and then moving back once again.
• A competing wagon in DeathRowKitty was led by populartajo and ran up to 7 votes at its peak (populartajo 397, Jack 608, Fishythefish 634, CryMeARiver 635,
  Equinox 645
  , farside22 684, Benmage 782, and Andrius 799).
• Yet another competing wagon came up in Feysal led by DTMaster and ran up to 8 votes at its peak (DTMaster 751, Equinox 765,
  DrippingGoofball 863
  , Lady Lambdadelta 904, DrippingGoofball 969, SpyreX 971, Nobody Special 1025, Jack 1048, and hitogoroshi 1049).
• Interestingly, we've had quite a few people defect from the DeathRowKitty wagon: Equinox in 765 to Feysal, Fishythefish in 906 to Lady Lambdadelta (and back to DeathRowKitty in 1047), Jack in 947 to Corvuus (and later to Feysal), nopointinactingup in 951 to Lady Lambdadelta, and hitogoroshi in 1049 to Feysal.
• Where does the Corvuus wagon belong? At any rate, it's much more scatter-shot; I'm seeing votes from a few people, most of whom have since left for greener pastures. It looks like this wagon is about to start up again, though.

You're probably thinking, "Okay, so we've got at least that much information about people's behaviors towards the big Day 1 bandwagons. What does it all mean?"

• Corvuus and Feysal are probably not scum together. The most recent wagoning behavior makes the possibility that they are impossible or at least very difficult to believe.
  If either of these two are scum, Nobody Special is a town god.
  Considering how hard it was to get a Feysal wagon rolling up until very recently, the speed of it toward the tail end smells. Unfortunately, this isn't telling of Feysal's alignment.

Of course, there were other factors in play for the third point: People didn't understand it (e.g., DeathRowKitty, farside22), didn't agree with it (e.g., hitogoroshi), or were voting someone else (see spoiler). It wasn't until yesterday or thereabouts that DTMaster started pushing everybody off the DeathRowKitty wagon; even then, most of the folks who were on DeathRowKitty are still there, and the newer Feysal votes are coming from other wagons. I have no idea what that means yet, but I'm hoping it'll be useful down the road.

tl;dr - Equinox postulates a bit after some vote count analysis, but she doesn't know how to interpret. Bah.

Actually, I can say one thing: Anyone who thinks that Corvuus, DeathRowKitty,

and

Feysal are 3 of the scum together is drinking from the wrong pitcher of Kool-Aid.

---

Spoiler: Fun stuff, courtesy of a quote wall

I was considering letting DTmaster live another day since depending on his actual role/gambit, etc. it is determinable but hey, you guys want me to take a stand right? That and he himself has declared that if he is town, then whatever he is doing/planning will help out town regardless of whether he lives or not so i don't see the downside to checking his gambit and pursuing this... especially since DTmaster and DRK scum together is a possibility.

I keep staring and staring at this, and I still don't see how he went from this to voting DTMaster, even considering the fact that he's been suspicious of DTMaster for a while. The first sentence sounds like he would've let DTMaster live for another day (i.e., not lynch him) to get information from whatever DTMaster was doing, but because we pressured Corvuus into taking a more solid stance, he decided to vote DTMaster once and for all. Corvuus is denying himself the opportunity to learn whatever it is to be learned from DTMaster's gambit during the night phase. This can't be a town mindset.

I haven't read drk's posts since the omgus on farside, so I feel like this is probably best.

Benmage gets "outed as scum via gambit" and makes a fuss about disputing it by focusing on whether he was in a game?

Obviously because you LIED about not being in disgaeae.

Jack has been a naughty boy.

I've asked for your input on my reads for the last day or so... Why haven't you answered my recent QT posts? Hmm?

Good to know Nobody Special has problems expanding on his reads in his QuickTopics, too.

@Jack:

*twitch*

Lady Lambdadelta, SpyreX, Jack, and Nobody Special were so aroused by the glaring white vote that they missed this part of Mina's post.

Hmm...

Jack 1039: U BACKPEDALING
Mina 1040: Did you even read?
Jack 1042: LOLJK

LLD's points are factually accurate -

Feysal hasn't committed to anything much

, makes long posts, and doesn't make many posts, but I don't see that any of that makes him scum.

Town pick fights and then commit to reads they get as a result. Scum don't commit because they want to be fluid enough that they can slide onto wagons that are hot from the press.

Long posts are not scummy, no, but look at Feysal and then look at Mina. They are both verbose players, but one of them is much easier to understand than the other. Ask Mina a question and she'll answer; sure, it's probably a whole page long, but at least I know, in a nutshell, what she's saying. It's much harder with Feysal.

Now that I think about it, there's a confounding factor in there that would make the "unintelligibly long posts" point completely null. (Especially since Feysal's most recent posting cut to the chase.)

Hmm. Jack's 1048 gives me pause with regards to Feysal. OMG I don't want to read anymore, but this is one thing I do have to look up.

Not sold on Feysal-scum, but we'll probably need to eat this policy lynch sometime, and this is page motherfuckin 42 so lets get eugenic up in this bitch.

hitogoroshi, there's a competing wagon... one that you

just left

despite having a read. What are you doing?

For example, see that vote? Where were the facts and reasons backing that up? I didn't see any reasons why DRK was scum.... did you?

• That is all you are going to get from me tonight. If you want me to elaborate on any of these reads, it will have to wait. I have a job interview in the morning, and I have already stayed up far too late to write this.

Hmm...

---

I know you people don't read, so have a summary:

Points docked from hitogoroshi.
Points docked from Jack.
Points docked from Lady Lambdadelta.
Points given to DTMaster.
Points given to Feysal.
Points given to Mina.

Equinox's to-read list: Andrius, Feysal^M, Jack (leftover from the last to-do list), Lady Lambdadelta, SpyreX
Questionable individuals: Corvuus, hitogoroshi, Jack

Here's the kick: I am considering a Corvuus wagon. Verdict coming soon.

[Equinox]

Since when is Equinox a she? >_>

I'm actually female.

All right, folks, I just got approval from zoraster for this. I've been keeping track of the votes on Google Docs, and you folks can access it here. The only caveat (that I know of right now) is that I don't update it if I'm no longer in the game. I hope this will help later -- juicy bandwagons had better be juicy.

[Equinox]

I'm catching up, doing some metagaming, and trying to pick a wagon. Hold your horses.

[Equinox]

Fairness point: Feysal is in a whopping

four

Large Themes. A cruise through his recent posts show that he's been in catch-up mode for a while.

I'm getting bothered by the accusations flying around. I can understand the meta argument against Feysal, which I'm about to go investigate, but the attacks coming from DeathRowKitty and Lady Lambdadelta are unsettling.

I hate to say this because usually this kind of argument pisses me off, but I get the feeling DeathRowKitty is trying to self-preserve... which is bad.

DTmaster and Equinox have still not responded with whether it was planned or accidental regarding Equinox requesting BP for DTm since it is actually a significant contributing factor to killing DTm's gambit being useful for town beyond what DTm did to his own gambit. I don't think you should trust Equinox. I don't know his specific meta but Equinox-town should be smart enough to know what happened/would happen.

Um... I guess I should be flattered that I'm being overestimated.

Your allegation that I could have known what was going to happen is unfounded. I requested the bulletproof for DTMaster in post 827. DeathRowKitty did not make his announcement until 7 hours later in post 838. Keep in mind that DTMaster had given no details whatsoever about what he was doing, only that he was passing coded messages within his priesthood. You're accusing me of being scum because I was supposed to be psychic.

While I agree the NS assessment is fair since he's all quiet in the QT.

What the hell. Now I can't vote for Feysal because

damn

that is scummy of Nobody Special.

[Equinox]

Check your evidence, please, before coming to the courtroom. DTMaster made no power role claims prior to my request for his bulletproof.

I'm sure you can't tell because you suspect me (for the weirdest reasons, I might add), but I'm considered town by a

vast

majority of the players in this game. A few people asked DrippingGoofball to grant me bulletproof. I don't want it. The other obvtarget was DTMaster, so naturally I asked DrippingGoofball to pass it to him instead.

Then you 'decided' at 5 days pre-deadline to ask for him to gain protection which makes the least amount of sense if you understand 1. his Gambit, 2. his analysis? and comments regarding his code/priesthood Quicktopic?.

Incorrect.

There was discussion earlier in the game day about controlling DrippingGoofball's rewards. I agreed. Now, would you rather I waited until, say, 2 days before deadline to discuss this in a town that is prone to bickering and indecision? 5 days seems like a reasonable amount of time to me.

At any rate, my question was more on why did you do that or think it was a good idea to ask DGB since your reasons for protecting DTm were anti-thesis of DTm's own play?

Right now, you're working with the full knowledge of DTMaster's gambit and claim. Pretend for a second that you don't have that knowledge. At the time I asked for the bulletproof, DTMaster had made no claims whatsoever, except that he was passing messages around. DTMaster was an obvious kill target (besides me), and I wanted him to survive Night 1 -- he made good analyses, and I know he's a better player than I am.

Preview Edit:

I'm liking Corvuus' #1126. Very much.

...the guy just made an argument for Equinox-scum based on a fucked up timeline of events. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[Equinox]

Dammit.

Feysal (8) - DTMaster, Lady Lambdadelta, SpyreX, Nobody Special, hitogoroshi, farside22, DeathRowKitty, DrippingGoofball
DeathRowKitty (7) - populartajo, Benmage, Andrius, Fishythefish, Feysal, Jack, Corvuus

Sitting on the fence like Humpty Dumpty (3) - Equinox, Mina, nopointinactingup

Here's my dilemma:

Feysal has been scummy. I've been saying that ever since I caught the slip about which Feysal seems really confused. I trust a number of people on the Feysal wagon. The problem is that the way this wagon has gone about and some of the recent behaviors surrounding this wagon (e.g., DeathRowKitty and hitogoroshi) bother me. The other problem is the connection from Feysal to Nobody Special that makes me think that the two cannot be scum together; I am dead certain of this read, and Nobody Special has been scummy.

DeathRowKitty has been scummy. There's the mental mindframe slip both DTMaster and hitogoroshi have pointed out, which in a way nullifies DTMaster's read of DeathRowKitty from the gambit. There's his Feysal pushing. There's his lazy play toward the middle of the day. The problem is that there are shady folks on the DeathRowKitty wagon; bussing is a possibility, but with competing wagons close to lynch, I think it's unlikely.

I am still reading up on Feysal's metagame. Seriously, give me a bit to figure this out.

[Equinox]

EBWOP:

Feysal (8) - DTMaster, Lady Lambdadelta, SpyreX, Nobody Special, hitogoroshi, farside22, DeathRowKitty, DrippingGoofball
DeathRowKitty (8) - populartajo, Benmage, Andrius, Fishythefish, Feysal, Jack, Corvuus, nopointinactingup

Sitting on the fence like Humpty Dumpty (2) - Equinox, Mina

Preview edit: ...that actually makes sense. Hmm.

[Equinox]

And now I close my eyes...

VOTE: Feysal

L-1

[Equinox]

Does that Feysal <--> NS connection cut both ways? If Feysal is scum, NS is a town god?

If Feysal is town, it's inconclusive.

If Feysal is scum, Nobody Special is most likely a town god. The only exception to this is a Feysal-Jack-Nobody Special team.

I'm not sure how to take the rest of your post there, hitogoroshi. I can understand the mindset behind giving someone a chance, but that post reads a lot to me like... "Give DeathRowKitty a chance so we can coach him."

[Equinox]

What has your QT with fishy lead you to believe about his alignment?

I don't know. We've been more reactive in there than proactive. Fishythefish's suspicions as stated in this thread are consistent with what he's posted in the QuickTopic. I'm not sure what else I could say; I've been paranoid and reluctant to share, and I guess he's also been quiet as a result.

[Equinox]

And that was meant to be a vote.^

WTF are you doing 2 days before deadline with 2 competing wagons?

[Equinox]

I'm probably being forgetful, but does anyone have SpyreX-scum meta? I see the talk about SpyreX-town usually leading, but I have meta that shows that SpyreX-scum leads as well. Prove me wrong.

[Equinox]

I'm not too worried about DTMaster, DrippingGoofball. (Yes, I've thought this through.)

[Equinox]

I could say the same about you, you know. >_>

[Equinox]

How caught up are you, Benmage?

[Equinox]

I'm defecting. 1195 does not sound like a scumbag going down.

Unvote, Vote: DeathRowKitty

[Equinox]

I hope I can make my play on Day 2 worthy of that bulletproof vest. (Thank you.)

[Equinox]

Corvuus, please tell me you're an alt of themanhimself. Your tunneling is really depressing.

The basis of your attack is that I was supposed to know that DTMaster was claiming bulletproof before he sunk his gambit. Let's look at those quotes, then.

Your first quote: "I have claimed a role to Nobody Special and asked him to pass it to someone within the priesthood."

Softclaiming PR != softclaiming BP, so I don't know what you're trying to get at there. Again, you

are

affected by hindsight, and denying it doesn't change the fact that you are.

Your second quote: "But I like gambits!"

What am I supposed to get out of that? That DTMaster likes to gambit? Sure. That... OMG DTMASTER IS SOFTCLAIMING BP AND QUICK QUICK I SHOULD TELL DGb TO GIVE HIM BP TO SINK HIS GAMBIT?

Now you're stretching it.

Yet again, you are working from hindsight.

Corvuus, if you want to accuse me of having any part in the information leak, get some balls and say so.

There is no other way I could have known that DTMaster was softclaiming a semi-bulletproof role from any of his posts prior to his claim, and the only reason you are seeing anything is you have Hindsight Syndrome and are in denial about it.

[Equinox]

I'm saying he claimed a PR and the way he went about it was indicative that he was ok with drawing the NK. Sure, he could be a BP (or hider in this case) but he claimed 'something', said he was a liar as town, claimed to at least his god and 'specific' person or whatever and in terms of you saying his analysis is great, i'm not sure why you say this.

...well, now I'm confused.

• I don't know his specific meta but Equinox-town should be smart enough to know what happened/would happen.

  This is your original accusation. The implication was that I was supposed to know that: 1) DTMaster was claiming a bulletproof; 2) If I asked DGb to give DTMaster bulletproof, DTMaster would refuse; and 3) DTMaster would then claim hider and sink his gambit.

Now it looks like you're saying that: 1) DTMaster was softclaiming PR, 2) that I was somehow magically supposed to know he was drawing a NK by claiming someone in the priesthood was getting permanent protection.

Also, what information leak are you talking about?

Ladies and gentlemen, this man had the gall to accuse me just minutes ago of not reading DTMaster's posts. DTMaster revealed, when he sunk his gambit, that he strongly believed there was an information leak to the scum team, and he laid out how he believed two people were responsible for that leak.

p.s. I don't understand why you and DTm like bolding. It doesn't change anything. Are you trying to get an emotional response?

Not from you. I'm pissed as hell right now.

I'm taking a break from this game and from Corvuus before I explode all over the thread. (Fortunately, all but one of you have no idea what that's like, and I don't feel like exposing you to that.)

[Equinox]

...wait a minute.

I can try posting more thoughts in my QT in case of my death,

but you can wait until tomorrow since you are immune

.

I was under the impression that you think I'm scum.

[Equinox]

Choo choo.

VOTE: hitogoroshi

Messages are going to be passed within the Temple of Time. Prepare for awesomeness. Don't forget to confirm receipt; I like getting signed green postcards in the mail.

[Equinox]

Did anyone in FF's group get a this info?

Yes, 3 days before post 368.

[Equinox]

DrippingGoofball, did SpyreX change his stance at any point?

zoraster's role PM states that the traitor doesn't know who the scum are, but his wording suggests that there may have been opportunities for him to get into contact with the scum later.

[Equinox]

V/LA until February 24

[Equinox]

Benmage, what the fuck do you think you're doing?

[Equinox]

Okay.

That V/LA is self-imposed to get me to finish writing this paper and catch up in all of my other classes. Being the awesome student that I am, I don't focus on the open textbook in front of me or the research papers I have open on my desktop. No, I think about this game and about all the stuff I ranted in my QuickTopic, and then I spend 2 hours to write up a post.

If I'm going to fail a class, I may as well make it worth at least something by posting my masterpiece.

And then I am going to block my access until the end of Thursday so I can pay some damn attention to the thing that actually matters in life. If you see me on the site anytime during my V/LA, STOP ME.

Wall incoming now.

[Equinox]

This is what happens when I go on an insanity spree. Experience the magic!

Item #1

: Feysal is town.

What went on at the end of Day 1 is a shining example of why high-pressure competitive wagoning works. The Feysal wagon was competitor to DeathRowKitty wagon. We know now that DeathRowKitty is town, which says something important. Both wagons were close to lynch, close enough that Nobody Special withdrew his vote to take the hammer. (My friend, your timing... It is incredible.) Scum aren't going to go "GAIZ WE NEEDS TO BUS FEYSAL FOR THERE IS NO OTHER OPTION" when there is a perfectly reasonable L-1 wagon sitting right in front of them. Easing into the DeathRowKitty wagon should not have been an issue at that juncture; hell, something like, "I trust the people on this wagon more" (*cough*) would have sufficed! This ain't bussing, and it sure as hell isn't distancing.

Item #2

:

Equinox: we can either handle this through fishy or however you might like.

Handle what? Trying to convince you that your arguments are off the wall? If Day 1 was any indication, I have enough trouble with that as it is, and you aren't going to convince me (or anyone else) that I'm scum. If you're trying to establish whether or not I'm scum, here's a simple answer for you: No, I am not. Pretend that's in red if you want. If you're trying to argue to the rest of them that I'm scum, what is the point of taking this to Fishythefish?

In a nutshell: No, we're not dealing with this at all because the easiest solution is to wait until I get shot, and you'll get mod confirmation that you've been wasting your time. There's a bullet out there with my name on it, and by God I am going to eat it for dessert like it's a fine dish of double chocolate fudge ice cream with chocolate chips.

Item #3

: NUMBERS. They are awesome. (Also, this section is basically a thought dump disguised as an analytical thesis.)

I strongly believe The Temple of Time is all town. There are days where I go on Corvuus, but seriously, if he's scum, he's got giant brass balls to go after two of the most high-profile and considered town players in the game and expect to get somewhere with it. If he's on a scum team, I fully expect that scum team to bus the living daylights out of him given his and his predecessor's performance in this game, and so far that hasn't happened. Ergo, my temple is full of town awesome.

What this means for the people in the Temple of Judgment:

1. Benmage
2. Jack
3. DTMaster
   Zang

Unless probability has something against me, there is/are scum in this group. Yeah, you all knew that, so here's something new.

I think Benmage is town. His self-vote though is WOAH and is

nothing

like the Benmage-town I know who would rip into any person he sees as acting like a VI, and I'd think self-voting would qualify. However, I'm fairly sure the guy is town. Back in Day 1, he posted "Internet[sic] Struggle" in the thread, and soon after I requested a prod on Nobody Special by coincidence. He thought I'd slipped and called me out on it. That is not a scum reaction; that's a town reaction.

Jack, on the other hand, is probably scum. He called Benmage scum for lying. The problem is that Benmage wasn't; he had a valid concern with DTMaster, since he really wasn't in either of the Disgaea Mafia games. What this means is that Jack did not check before waving his finger around, and that's what hasty overexcited scum do. (I got lynched as scum for this very tell. Pretty awesome.) Further, he calls out Mina for backpedaling when she retracted her "case" against me before he himself backpedals when Mina counters him. "LOLJK" is

not

a valid excuse.

Cool, right? Let's go to the Temple of Rewards:

1. Andrius
2. populartajo
3. hitogoroshi
4. nopointinactingup
   CryMeARiver
   Me=Weird

25% of 18 is 4.5, so we're probably looking at a 5-person scum team including the god.

Process of elimination points to 2 of these people as scum.

I'm going to take a giant leap of faith and trust DrippingGoofball's word that Andrius is town, so he's filed under "Probably Town."

That leaves hitogoroshi, nopointinactingup, and populartajo.

I'm aware that DTMaster hid behind nopointinactingup.

Item #4

: Something about the NK...

The Lady Lambdadelta kill doesn't make sense to me because I expected someone else to bite. Lady Lambdadelta had enough mud slung on her (I'm settling on "her" ) that she should have survived the night if the scum were hunting obvtown players, so either something happened in the QuickTopic with her and Nobody Special, or scum went power role hunting.

I know it's not Lady Lambdadelta's in-thread reads, so if she mentioned anything to Nobody Special overnight, we're shit out of fucking luck because pulling anything out of him is like pulling teeth out of a healthy 25-year-old's mouth. We can also figure she investigated rather than submitted, since DrippingGoofball did not volunteer any information right off the bat.

Then there's this:

I know I have to respond to LLD's flip (have to find all the pre-QT PMs)

Why would you have to hunt through your

pre

-QuickTopic PMs?

---

Abridged version of the above:

• I am not lynching anyone within the Temple of Time and will stop any wagon that forms on any Priest of Time.
• I'm stumped by Lady Lambdadelta's death, so I am going to go read 5 pages of iso when I get back. If there are no crumbs in there, Nobody Special is heavily implicated.
• My lynch pool: hitogoroshi, Jack, nopointinactingup, populartajo

[Equinox]

Unvote, Vote: Jack

I want Jack lynched first. There is a reason for this that I will cover later in the day.

The lynch pool: Jack, populartajo, nopointinactingup

If any of you 3 are town, I will murder you forever.

Also lazy Benmage is a

reliable towntell

thats why I didnt vote him. Selfvoting means that he is also prob town so the play is definitely hitogoroshiscum.

If you speak of reliability, you must have evidence. The Benmage-town I know is not lazy. Prove me wrong.

By the way, if you can explain to me how a reliable town tell is just a "slight town tell," that would be great as well.

Literally NONE of this happened. Also I want to know, if you're town, how come scum didn't kill you last night like I expected?????

You didn't have a problem when I posted these accusations the first time! I bet you were cursing all night that you couldn't kill me off early like last game...

I don't understand your confusion. I talked with my Priests prior to making QTs, and that was in PMs. My PM inbox is almost full (approaching 900), so there's some searching involved.

My confusion lies in the fact that Lady Lambdadelta refused to claim to you early on Day 1, so there shouldn't have been a need to look in your pre-QuickTopic PMs for a claim from her. If she changed her mind, I would guess that happened after the switch to QuickTopic. I suppose that you're just stalling at this point, though, and we're never going to get anything useful out of you. Unfortunate, really, since you could have used your followers' trust.

Equinox: You mention the "internet struggle", call on secret info. Benmage said it was "internal struggle" and I'm not aware of any confirmation or anything by NS in NS-iso... Ben did claim internal struggle PM but it is kind of weird to me.

The message was not for Nobody Special's benefit; it was for DTMaster's. Seriously, did you finish reading the game in chronological order? All this reading in iso is going to mess you up.

Yes, if I'm going to be lynched. It'll be today, or not at all. Period.

This didn't work for I Am Innocent too well either, did it? Knock it off. Be useful and lynch scum. Keeping your vote on yourself only makes you a tree stump useless to the rest of us.

[Equinox]

I still don't get how your scum reads suck so bad, though.

[Equinox]

I'll answer that with a question. What makes you think either Mina or Lost Butterfly are scum?

Also, smooth move, buddy, leaving wiggling room for the event people start calling you out on your reads.

[Equinox]

nopointinactingup is scum, though, Lost Butterfly.

[Equinox]

Equinox, all of your points on me involved taking posts that were clearly facetious at face value.

Clearly. Obviously.

[Equinox]

I should say that only refers to the case I based on Mina's posts, by the way. I'm pretty sure DTMaster wasn't joking around.

[Equinox]

DrippingGoofball, that's not a slip.

1. Equinox - Duh.
2. farside22 - Open Game list mod, etc.
3. Feysal - Played in a marathon game with him, lynched him.
4. Mina - Played in a large theme game after she died, got to read her posts and liked her play style. (Starting to emulate some of that, actually.)
5. themanhimself - Played in my Open game as a replacement.

Therefore, I knew most of my fellow followers.

Derp.

[Equinox]

Okay. The rest:

My top suspect right now is hitogoroshi, though I have some reservations about how DGB defended him.

What makes DrippingGoofball's defense of hitogoroshi different from Andrius?

I disagree with your statement about Andy due to the heavy DGB buddying action. (Except I don't know what's happening behind the scenes so they could be pulling a Pom on me. The QT must be really good V.V;;)

"Pulling a Pom"? (All I said was that I was putting faith in DrippingGoofball's read of Andrius. Where do you disagree with that?)

Don't like the Jack wagon at all. The snipes for his jokes re: Mina feel opportunistic, I've gotten a fairly town (gut, granted) read from him all game, and overall the push on him just feels...wrong?

Jack (6) - DrippingGoofball, Andrius, nopointinactingup, Equinox, Fishythefish (FoS), Benmage, farside22

Of these six, Equinox was the only one who spun the Jack-Mina exchange as a major point. Everyone else had their own thing for used a different part of my case. Who's being opportunistic again, hitogoroshi?

I agree that some of the pushers are questionable (i.e., nopointinactingup, Benmage), but I expected that; I strongly believe Jack is scum, and the reason I wanted him lynched first today was to see who would bus. That was the reason that I said I would reveal later. I didn't expect this much anti-Jack pushing, though, so I'll look into that later today.

Saving DrippingGoofball for the next post, since I think she's stretching and this is enough of a quote wall.

[Equinox]

Dusty players:

We should make a

priority of trying to find out who the scum god is

. I see discrete chatter with a god as being very useful (we have what amounts to

two

uber-neighborizers

) but it's disastrous if people share information with the scum god.

For now, be certain not to share anything overly important with the gods; hopefully later we can make a more informed decision and take advantage of that godpower.

You're going to have to explain this to me. (...as with the rest of your post, but I'm really in no position to say that, am I.) All I'm seeing hitogoroshi say here is:

• We should find out who the scum god is. (I'm presuming scum god has no idea about the traitor either, since that knowledge + communication line would defeat the entire purpose.)
• If we find the town god, we get two uber neighbor
  izers
  . (Honestly, if I were a traitor, I would completely miss this, so no, this is not traitor fishing. Gotta be more open than that. Subtlety can only go so far before it becomes obscurity.)
• We shouldn't share major stuff with the gods until we can trust them and then make good use of the gods' powers. (Again, where is the message to the traitor?)

Nothing on the face, nothing underneath the tablecloth.

And then for some reason you have DTMaster's posts that, by all indications, should have been filed under "Clean Players" since you clearly say he's not traitor fishing.

Filthy players:

Oh, hey, I know most of my fellow followers. Hiya!

Already explained. Yeah, I can see why you would say this is traitor fishing, and this is closer than most of the other quotes you put up in there, but this isn't fishing. I can say that with my heart crossed, needles down my throat, and in red.

I can poke, prod, and wedge holes in your arguments for as long as my god allows me, and I will reveal you to be the scum that you are!

You've never played Umineko, so here goes. My avatar is Battler. In the game, he gets into a battle of wits with a witch named Beatrice. The two of them do exactly what I describe here -- poke, prod, wedge holes in each other's logic -- to prove that the circumstances of certain locked-room murders are due to realistic mystery (Battler) or magic (Beatrice).

Lady Lambdadelta's name is a reference to one of the characters of Umineko, and we've had some jabs at each other elsewhere on the forums related to our monikers. When we finally got a game together, I continued the jabs in the game.

You're stretching with this one, DrippingGoofball.

The comments are null. It's Jack and Nobody Special, after all.

Yeah, uh... Why is this here?

Hello all.

Some of you know me, the rest are about to get to know me.

I was too busy yesterday to participate in the pregame, but after reading it I don't feel like I missed much by not being there.

The important part of Jack making a sensational claim I certainly did not miss.

As with the first Equinox quote, yeah, I can see how you'd read the first underline as traitor fishing, but even then that is taking it pretty far. Feysal knows a few people on the player list and greets them. Nothing new.

The second underline is his acknowledgment of Jack's gambit. Are you trying to say that Jack's a second traitor? Otherwise, I don't see it.

---

The basic premise is: The traitor has no idea who the scum are. The scum have no idea who the traitor is. Therefore, any fishing that occurs can't be too subtle or it'll get missed entirely.

The stuff you've underlined up there is TOO SUBTLE. I think you're getting overexcited and just pointing out whatever looks even remotely like fishing when NO ONE would have understood it.

---

farside22: I don't think zoraster's the kind of mod who would hide the fact that there's a traitor from the scum, so we can assume they knew.

[Equinox]

DrippingGoofball, you're seeing things that aren't there. I don't know what I can say to you if you're imagining subliminal or supposedly telegraphic messages in my posts. They are not there, they do not exist, and I am not scum. I'll say that until I'm blue in the face if I have to because I'll be damned before I get accused of being scum for playing the best town game I have ever played on this site.

"AtE," etc.

As for 1459, yeah, I defended Jack for his gambit and would have to the death, and it's not just that post you cited. I am not proud of that. The comments coming from Jack and Nobody Special at that time

were

null; Jack pulls stupid shit because he's Jack, and Nobody Special responds likewise because he's an old prick that way. (No offense meant, old buddy.) That does not mean they are scum, and I am going to say as much.

[Equinox]

Also, my priests are not talking to me again.

GEE I WONDER WHY

Why are you hunting for questions aimed directly at you? You've been following along in the thread; you should have an idea of who's scum, don't you? You're not going to let us all down by taking the hammer and forcing No Lynch, right?

Why the hell am I typing this. You're playing exactly to your scum meta. If you're town, Nobody Special, wake the fuck up and smell the damn coffee. But then again.

I have no idea why you guys think Jack is scum despite lolgambit early in the day. Someone?

I attacked him, he collapsed like caught scum. End of story.

Yeah. Equinox is obv town. Scum often is. That's how they win games.

You know a really big risk to playing obvtown? You're supposed to draw NKs, and when it's the end of the game, people start looking at you funny when you're not dead yet.

I've been playing to draw NKs all game.

[Equinox]

DrippingGoofball, if I don't get NKed tonight, I am going to blame you. But WIFOM, etc., useless argument so I'm not going to go there.

Nobody Special, my meta on you isn't limited to Newbie 940. But then again, the other scum meta I have on you was from a newbie game where, because you chatted up the place and never once mentioned your scum buddy, you got lynched. I'm guessing you took a lesson to heart and decided to not be useful at all lest you out your scum buddies in this game.

Low activity isn't even the main point against you. You're being deliberately useless. I do give grace to players with low activity if they provide high content. That just isn't you, which is really disappointing.

[Equinox]

Prod: DTMaster, Feysal, Fishythefish, Jack, nopointinactingup

This game. Rather than try to make sense of whatever is going on right now with farside22 and hitogoroshi because it's gone WOOSH, I am going to go blow my brains out by rereading 61 pages to get a better grip on my slipping reads.

Wish me luck!

Hold me to this.

[Equinox]

This makes me sad, DrippingGoofball. I thought you knew what you were doing and would've sheeped you. I guess it's quite apparent now that you don't, and I'm on my own for that reread.

[Equinox]

Where do you see my vote, DrippingGoofball? Did you see the case I have been pushing against Jack?

Please do this obvscum a favor and don't fucking presume what I'm going to do. I've had it up to here with your stubbornness, and I am not going to have you discredit me before I even start.

[Equinox]

I should also mention while I still have this temper:

If it makes you happy, we'll kill Jack and Feysal before we kill you.

Several people, spectators included, are probably going to want to stab me for saying this, but it needs to be said.

Don't do this. Please don't save me for later. If you're dead set on lynching me, I want you to do so before you lynch anyone else. (Except Jack, obviously, because I want him dead more than I want myself dead for my own purposes.) I want the satisfaction of watching my flip, and then I want the satisfaction of saying I played an A-game only to get myself lynched for a perceived message that wasn't even there.

61 pages with this over my head should make for an interesting wall.

[Equinox]

I'm not asking you to wait for me, DrippingGoofball. Yet again, you're reading things that are not there, and you've jumped to a conclusion. It's obvious I'm not going to get killed (though your thoughts and my thoughts about why that would be differ, so don't pursue this point), so I have plenty of time to post my thoughts about this game.

If Jack flips scum, we are going to lynch me before Feysal. I'll force the Temple of Time voting alliance if I have to. I do not want my scum hunting efforts soiled by the possibility that I telegraphed a message to the traitor, and I'd hate to sit for 2 entire days not being able to do anything because I'm "confirmed scum" for something I did not do.

Before any of you say "martyr card" or "Why are you lynching confirmed town before someone else," etc., I

am

playing to win, so shush it.

[Equinox]

(Since I still haven't read the God abilities does NS have to announce he is halting the lynch?)

The second he posts that he sits in judgment, all votes freeze.

[Equinox]

Jack hasn't posted in other games, either. I can only assume something's happened to him and he's just not here; I can't see scum stalling to prod range in every single game just to avoid a hammer in one of them.

At this point, I just want the hammer to drop so I can forget about the train wreck for a couple of days and focus on getting my reads updated.

[Equinox]

I've been curious, DrippingGoofball. If you're simply testing your theory, it shouldn't matter who you lynch first. Why are you so set on this particular order?

[Equinox]

I thought you said marathon games were a different beast, Faraday. (Or am I confusing you with someone else?)

[Equinox]

While I realize you're joking, just so everyone is clear - Zoraster very explicitly said that the mortal scum have been distributed randomly, BEFORE picking the scum immortal. The scumbags could be in one support group, but simple statistics dictate that's unlikely. (

Assuming three scum, which seems about right for this size setup

, there's only a 1/9 chance they're all together, and only a 1/27 chance they're together with the scum Immortal).

What was your rationale for 3 scum, hitogoroshi?

[Equinox]

I have two very simple questions while I catch up on this thread explosion.

1.

Andrius and DrippingGoofball

: You mentioned earlier that you have 200+ QuickTopic posts. Who is leading the discussion? I need BOTH of you to answer.
2.

DrippingGoofball

: Traitor communication. One-way or two-way street?

I do not care if you think I am scum. I want these answers.

[Equinox]

2.

DrippingGoofball

: Traitor communication. One-way or two-way street?

Two way. Mostly to establish identity. Beyond that, probably little communication if at all.

Show me where SpyreX communicated to either Equinox or Feysal, then. You are blowing a lot of hot air when I know your allegations (against me, at the very least) to be false.

[Equinox]

I don't know about you guys, but I want that hammer to drop. Forcing a replacement to claim and then hammering sounds cruel to me, and I highly doubt Jack's slot has anything to say in its defense.

[Equinox]

SpyreX did not communicate with Equinox or Feysal directly. He did communicate directly with NS, and indirectly with Jack.

That would be because SpyreX had nothing to do with either Equinox or Feysal. I know I am town and thus have nothing to do with him. I strongly feel Feysal is town due to wagon analysis; I looked at the circumstances again earlier today and still believe this to be the case. Again, seeing things that are not there.

(The real purpose of this post was to bump. So.)

[Equinox]

I've been holding onto this since this morning, and I was hoping I could post it as close to night phase as possible. Now I'm just tired of waiting, so I'll leave this here and hope something cool happens while I'm knee-deep in this thread, picking it apart.

I've been reading, and I came across this gem from SpyreX:

BUT, don't confuse LONG deadline with "twiddly thumb dance party". If the stars align and its death time early, don't pish posh it.

That said the Jack-move doesn't bother me.

I believe this was mentioned previously, but the wording in SpyreX's second sentence is pretty weird and appears to be forced. I'm thinking that this is SpyreX's return receipt for a message someone sent prior to this.

Looking for telegraphs but not looking for a confirmation from SpyreX is a fool's errand. Sorry, DrippingGoofball, I know you've put effort into this game and have done great good for this town; however, I am going to say now that you have been blinded by your followers, and I am not going to let you drive us off the cliff because of it.

If Jack flips scum, this message from SpyreX is the key to unraveling the next scumbag. The second line (third sentence) of this post is most likely his confirmation of Jack, so we're looking for someone who, in the same message, conveyed that Jack was with them.

Scum, this is my challenge to you.

Are you going to take a chance and try to lynch me? DrippingGoofball is correct in that I'm a very difficult lynch. I can't even push my own lynch; that should say something, and I'm not even trying to save my own skin because I really don't care at this point.

Kill me before I find you, or I

will

hunt down every single one of you and then watch as you slowly gag on the rope.

[Equinox]

Baa.

I'm too fucking tired.

Unvote, Vote: hitogoroshi

[Equinox]

Okay, so even when I'm in the "Fuck it, I don't want to think anymore and I just want to sheep" mode, I am compulsive and think anyway. It's all f'ing useless.

Looking at AlmasterGM's claim again. The tone comes off as honest, but he missed a part of the role PM. I'm just really waffly on this right now (blame it on the fact I made stir-fried Equinox brain today) because I don't see that portion being particular to an alignment, but it's a funky thing to miss for someone who's claiming blindly.

Ugh. So basically I need to reread Jack, and since I'm rereading the whole ding-dang game anyway, I might as well.

And then... I want to sheep the Temple of Time voting alliance because I want to trust Faraday's and farside22's judgment on this, but I've got this thing niggling in the back of my mind, namely hitogoroshi's 1575. When I first read it, it came off as an honest answer; my question in 1574 was to check if he'd slipped or something because there may have been something weird going on with the setup*. So yeah.

Mina, I've caught the WIFOM bug. Let me know when you find a cure, please.

* = zoraster's LyLo warning. Did I talk about this yet? I'm too lazy to check, so I apologize if this is a repeat. I checked zoraster's games, and he's never had that warning before, not even in Pledge of Allegiance where it was basically uPick Alignment. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, go read the game-specific rules again. Something tells me this setup isn't the usual kind of setup.

...

Yeah. I'm done. I'll come back tomorrow with a clearer head.

Unvote

[Equinox]

I meant "God of Judgment Nobody Special." Kind of odd he'd leave that out, but I don't know if zoraster would've changed that in the corrupt priests' PMs.

"Good" I can see leaving out since AlmasterGM wasn't quoting directly (not that he could), and he did put his win condition.

[Equinox]

I'm worshipping Nobody Special. I win the the town.

P.S. I have no other abilities other than being a "High Priest," whatever that means.

Here's the thing.

The second quote makes it look like AlmasterGM has no idea of the premise of the game, yet he manages to use the term "worship" when that's not the terminology in the role PM.

What I'm trying to figure out is if AlmasterGM was coached or if it was an honest mistake.

[Equinox]

True.

Augh. All right, that's it, I'm leaving this thread until I can actually THINK and not ramble on like a confused duck.

Preview edit:

Coached with?

Claiming, obv.

[Equinox]

Ugh. So even when I'm about to take a nap, you guys won't go away. Someone tell me where the switch is so I can turn off my brain for FIVE SECONDS before I go insane.

Ahem. I just thought of something. Scum would've guessed that Jack was flaking (esp. once people started mentioning Jack's activity meta) and prepared a coached claim in advance, so they would not have been sloppy. AlmasterGM's claim was... kinda sloppy. (Sorry. But really.)

AlmasterGM is probably town. And it makes my brain want to shrivel up and die because dammit Jack's reaction to my attack was scummy as hell.

Bleh. I'll read hitogoroshi when I wake up in a few hours.

[Equinox]

...sigh. I give up. If scum would like to put me out of my misery tonight, I would greatly appreciate it.

Something else occurred to me in bed, and it has compelled me to make a decision.

Unvote, Vote: hitogoroshi

In post 1575, he states that he didn't think there could be 4 scum and a god because we would've been in LyLo by Day 3. That's not possible unless we get double kills every night. That suggests to me he thought about it after the fact -- in other words, right when I asked him in 1574 -- rather than before, when he originally put out the theory that there were 3 scum in "this kind of setup."

Ouch, hitogoroshi.

[Equinox]

Hang on, didn't DTM Hide behind nopoint and clear him as town?

Roleblocks resolve before "Misc. 1."

Andrius, look at nopointinactingup's iso and tell me how, in any way, town can play like that. Besides, he's usually more proactive, at least in the games I've played with him.

[Equinox]

So, Equinox, why are YOU not voting him then? Because hito's more glaringly ovscum than NOPOINT?

Do you see an actual, viable bandwagon on nopointinactingup? No? Exactly.

That, and I do believe I just caught hitogoroshi red-handed. If I am correct, then his slip would explain zoraster's LyLo clause in the rules.

[Equinox]

Why the fuck are we arguing about fake claims? If you're not confused over AlmasterGM, move that discussion to MD and keep the noise out of this thread, kthx.

Preview edit: Like that, yes.

[Equinox]

I'd do that too, but I'd need to have a believable night choice for my predecessor, and not pick a role that's already been claimed, or is already dead, etc. In such a short, short amount of time, vanilla is the only option.

You forget that scum have day talk. It was mentioned more than enough times in this thread that Jack was probably flaking. Any scum with a half-decent brain would right then and there formulate a fake claim for his replacement to use as soon as the replacement is in. Furthermore, we had people yelling for Jack's blood; they're not going to hand the replacement a vanilla townie PM. Also, in addition, AlmasterGM is actually competent, and I would wager that he would've checked the scum topic first thing if he got the scum role PM.

AlmasterGM is not scum.

[Equinox]

Feysal is also not scum. That is an impossibility given the wagoning behavior at the time, and I will eat a lot more than hats if I am wrong with that analysis.

[Equinox]

DrippingGoofball:

What went on at the end of Day 1 is a shining example of why high-pressure competitive wagoning works. The Feysal wagon was competitor to DeathRowKitty wagon. We know now that DeathRowKitty is town, which says something important. Both wagons were close to lynch, close enough that Nobody Special withdrew his vote to take the hammer. (My friend, your timing... It is incredible.) Scum aren't going to go "GAIZ WE NEEDS TO BUS FEYSAL FOR THERE IS NO OTHER OPTION" when there is a perfectly reasonable L-1 wagon sitting right in front of them. Easing into the DeathRowKitty wagon should not have been an issue at that juncture; hell, something like, "I trust the people on this wagon more" (*cough*) would have sufficed! This ain't bussing, and it sure as hell isn't distancing.

Here's the voting spreadsheet for reference. Though I recommend reading that section of the game again if you need to refresh your memory.

[Equinox]

This one should work. If it doesn't, I need to meddle with the permissions again.

But I understand this as Feiysal being more likely scum, Equinox.

Just had a thought about that, so I'm re-analyzing now. I'll be back in a bit when I'm done parsing.

[Equinox]

Now that I think about it, though, if Feysal was a town-driven wagon, then it wouldn't matter whether or not it was competitive to the DeathRowKitty wagon.

Let's see:

Feysal (8) - DTMaster,

Lady Lambdadelta

,

SpyreX

, Nobody Special, hitogoroshi, farside22,

DeathRowKitty

, DrippingGoofball
DeathRowKitty (8) - populartajo, Benmage, Andrius, Fishythefish, Feysal, Jack, Corvuus, nopointinactingup

Sitting on the fence like Humpty Dumpty (2) - Equinox, Mina

If I were to analyze this based on my current reads right now, I would say that the scum were scattered between the two wagons, and both were pushed in some way by town. To steal Jack's summary of this, "It's as though the scum didn't care who got lynched." (That may not be an exact quote, and I don't care to check right this minute.) Looking at this snapshot again, though, the tail end of DeathRowKitty's wagon is particularly weak compared to Feysal's tail end; Corvuus and nopointinactingup hopped onto DeathRowKitty last, whereas the Feysal wagon had farside22, confirmed town DeathRowKitty, and you. On the other hand, there is strong middle support in DeathRowKitty's wagon (Andrius and Fishythefish) and very weak middle support in the Feysal wagon (SpyreX, Nobody Special, hitogoroshi).

...brain breakage.

Hmm. I don't see the Feysal wagon being strongly town-driven, and the

only

way for a viable competing wagon to start up on scum in that environment is if the wagon was town-driven. There was no motivation for scum to bus in that situation. Here, I see very weak middle support in the Feysal wagon: SpyreX was an opportunistic scumbag, Nobody Special is the scum god, and hitogoroshi was all policy-like when he decided to hop off his scum suspect DeathRowKitty and join the Feysal wagon. That is not town-driven.

Yep. Third analysis, same result. I am not budging on this.

[Equinox]

Wait a minute.

hitogoroshi didn't slip. I screwed up my arithmetic. Why didn't you bloodthirsty folk stop me when I called him out on a nonexistent slip?

Unvote

(Sorry, zoraster. )

...yeah, so

now

I'm off to read hitogoroshi.

[Equinox]

...no, wait. Dammit. I forgot to add the gods to the list of priests. That makes it Day

4

MyLo given single kills, not Day 3 LyLo, which again sends me back to the theory that hitogoroshi screwed up when he announced on Day 1 that the scum team had to be 3 players by assuming double-kills every night. (Even then, hitogoroshi's math shows Day 3 MyLo, but the problem remains about why hitogoroshi assumed double-kills would occur

every night up to Day 3

when it was barely Day 1.)

Oh my god I am going to shoot myself in the head. Sorry. I think zoraster might be ready to strangle me to death with all the vote-hopping I've done today alone...

*sigh*

Vote: hitogoroshi

Preview edit: Because I'm actually insane.

[Equinox]

...now I see why DTMaster wants to kill you.

Am I understanding this correctly? You're saying that Jack's gambit against Nobody Special is null, but we (potentially!) got the information that Nobody Special is probably scum. Because Jack pulled his null gambit, Jack needs to die. Jack needs to die so (and I'm pulling this from your iso) we can get information about Nobody Special-scum. You're leaning Jack-scum.

News flash, mate: We've known for a while now that Nobody Special is scum. We don't need any lynches to tell us that.

Ick.

I'm also unclear how you jumped from Jack-town (February 23, 1398) to putting Jack at pseudo-L-1 (February 25, 1457), especially since you somehow tied it to the "original gambit" that you, on the 23rd, called townish:

Jack: You believe DGB is the scum God? I'm not clear on your reasoning.
In terms of 'facetious' posts, what exactly are you referring to? Clarify your original gambit?
I'm siding towards you claiming and I am willing to vote you but I don't see a reason to put you at L-1 in the off-random i have no idea why chance that NS picks up the hammer. So consider yourself at L-1.

[Equinox]

There is a reason I picked that particular snapshot and not the end result wagon. My theory is that, in a high-pressure "We're willing to wagon all the way to lynch" environment, it's much harder to build a wagon on scum than it is to build on town; it would be much more liable to fizzle and die before it ever reaches L-2, and I had the opportunity to put Feysal at L-1. If I recall correctly, we had people ready to hammer as soon as Feysal got into the thread to claim. The fact that Feysal's wagon got so close to lynch at all is what makes me doubt that it was a wagon on scum; again, in that environment, a wagon on scum has to be entirely town-driven because there's no reason for scum to bus. DeathRowKitty got some pretty well-deserved hate for his behavior, and scum would not have had any trouble jumping on the DeathRowKitty wagon if they needed to save Feysal-scum.

[Equinox]

I think I see why we're not seeing the same thing. Our reads are entirely different.

The people who jumped off Feysal from my snapshot to yours: Equinox, Lady Lambdadelta, farside22, Jack

According to you, two of those people are scum (Equinox, Jack), and so you are going to hold the stance that scum were bussing Feysal and then jumped off when the opportunity availed itself. My stance is that I have town reads on all four, and then you have that analysis I just did (which I also based on my reads of this game).

*sigh*

I guess we have to agree to disagree or else this is going to turn into a wall battle of noise. But I'm still not letting you lynch Feysal.

Preview edit:

Equinox, do you want me to claim on hito's behalf? I know what he's going to claim.

YES/NO

Otherwise, unvote.

I think I have a very good idea of what he's claiming, and I am prepared to call for the hammer if that is indeed his claim. No, I am not unvoting. Claim if you so desire.

[Equinox]

Phone posting, class just got out.

He claimed vig, did he not?

[Equinox]

Fishythefish can post the explanation if he's here; it's long, but I suspect, based on the slip I've called out, that hitogoroshi is SK.

[Equinox]

All right, I literally just got home, so bear with me here.

Spoken like a true scum bag, worrying about SKs.

But explain.

Why would you want to hammer a claimed vig? SK or town, he's a NK target. Hammering a claimed/uncounterlclaimed vig is as dumb as hammering a claimed/uncounterclaimed doctor.

I don't care which scum I lynch as long as it's scum. I am not SK hunting specifically.

Why did you abandon the Jack/AGM wagon after this? Explanations please.

Do you even read this thread? There are times where I wonder if you purposefully ignore evidence just to stick to your theories, and there comes a time when it pisses me off.

I have explained this already, when I tried to tell you why AlmasterGM is town. It's okay if you don't remember; you blew it off like everything else I've tried to tell you, since you think I'm scum.

[Equinox]

Continued...

DrippingGoofball: I actually did not think about scum shooting the uncounterclaimed vigilante; I was just thinking about how hitogoroshi slipped SK (and not mafia, I will reveal this in a sec once I'm done posting this).

Lost Butterfly: I looked up hitogoroshi's iso in class today to find out if he could have shot SpyreX, and I focused on his posts on late Day 1. I didn't find anything, so I assumed that he acted on orders. I realize that I was very sloppy there, since I completely missed those reads you posted.

[Equinox]

Why I Believe hitogoroshi Is Serial Killer

presented in partial fulfillment of the requirements of the Responsible Town degree

Author's note: The explanation I gave to Fishythefish was very eloquently worded, and apparently I cannot quote it word for word, so tell me if I reworded it funny or something.

Very early on Day 1, a few people presented some probabilities for scum placement between the three temples. A theory was presented that there were three scum because it "seemed right for this size setup" (hitogoroshi 46).

For the past two days, I have been assuming a 4-man scum team plus the scum god. It made sense, since 25% of 18 was 4.5, and I rounded up for worst-case scenario; the range of scum:town that I have seen goes from 21% to 28%, so I figured my calculation made sense. While I was rereading the thread, I came across the above cited post by hitogoroshi, and I thought something was off. I questioned him, and he gave his justification behind believing in a 3-man scum team (hitogoroshi 1575).

I asked myself, "Why would he assume that there would be double-kills every night?" That is the only way this game can go to Day 3 LyLo. I can see scum slipping the number on their team, but this implied extra knowledge on the part of hitogoroshi; a town vigilante would have made the same guess as I did, since they would not know about the makeup of any anti-town parties. However, a serial killer benefits from two extra pieces of information that neither town nor scum have, and that is that the scum team is reduced in size (for balancing purposes) and that there would be double-kills every night.

Therefore, I believe hitogoroshi is the serial killer. I thought back to DrippingGoofball's fervent defending of hitogoroshi despite heat from players such as farside22 and Lost Butterfly, and I realized that hitogoroshi most likely claimed a power role to DrippingGoofball. Serial killers claim vigilante because that is the claim that makes the most sense.

[Equinox]

Reading your posts now, I've realized I have been ridiculously sloppy. I went after hitogoroshi out of zeal because I thought I'd found a slip, and that to me meant he was confirmed scum. The possibility that he could have been useful as an extra town-controlled gun completely escaped my mind.

I do not have a defense for that. That was a grave lapse in judgment on my part.

Let me think about this for a bit. While I'd like to lynch any manner of scum I could get my grubby hands on, the idea that we could use hitogoroshi as a vig does sound like a good one.

[Equinox]

Even I think there's are 2 scums, 1 traitor, and 1 scumgod. That's a educated guess. I have no special info, Equinox.

I know you don't. I suspect hitogoroshi of having that extra information.

[Equinox]

Okay, fine. hitogoroshi can be the honorary vigilante.

I want hitogoroshi to shoot me tonight.

Consider that a request from this fool of a priest. Fishythefish has all of my notes and my thought processes, and he can pass them among named members of the Temple of Time as necessary. I will post my scum reads closer to nightfall, but should I fail, that duty also falls to Fishythefish. I trust my god entirely.

Unvote, Vote: Corvuus

[Equinox]

...what the hell, DrippingGoofball. You've been ragging on me for a good part of the day because you think I'm scum, and right now I'm practically begging you here. If you fear that I am a paranoid gun owner or something, I assure you that I am not. I'm not scum, either, but I think we've agreed to disagree on that.

[Equinox]

What's with the death wish?

I know I am town. While it upset me that a coincidence caused you to be distracted and focus on Feysal and me, I knew that was not my fault and I had some hope of convincing you that it was a coincidence and not a telegraph. Just now, I fucked up, and I know I will be a distraction at some point down the road. I've just handed scum a good reason to push my mislynch on a freaking silver platter. I do

not

want that.

I'm actually being sincere here, believe it or not.

[Equinox]

I can put this another way, DrippingGoofball.

If you would allow me to flip on Night 2, it would disprove your theory about the telegraphs sooner rather than later. It would allow you to be more productive to this town; right now, my view is that you are distracting the town with your bad reads, and the rifts you are causing in this town is allowing scum places to hide.

I have scum reads of my own from my analyses and evaluation of this game, and I have ensured that they do not die with me. My death is not a total loss to the town.

[Equinox]

I'm out. Looking at this game makes me depressed, and all I want to do right now is kick myself repeatedly for being an idiot.

Kill any of the following: Benmage, Corvuus, Equinox, nopointinactingup

Might change as I continue my read of the game, but seeing as my other reads are fairly strong, I don't see this queue changing significantly. We'll see, I guess.

Preview edit: Goddammit, hitogoroshi.

[Equinox]

I'm telling you guys right now, if Feysal flips scum, I will eat whatever you guys want to feed me. Including rope.

/in before Cassandra

[Equinox]

Kill any of the following: Benmage, Corvuus, Equinox, nopointinactingup

I like this list, let's load the watermelon catapults.

I have to say that the irony here is pretty amusing.

Im pretty sure Equinox is town and I have a reliable townread on agressive Benmage. IIRC, DTM targetted nopoint and he isnt dead so nopoint is scum only if DTM is scum which its very likely not the case.

So no, this list only works with Corvuus.

I'm going to assume that your queue includes AlmasterGM and Feysal. I can't have that, as I've got town reads on them. Granted, my read of Feysal is stronger than that of AlmasterGM, but I've double-checked my logic and it looks solid (insert ironic laughter here).

[Equinox]

God forbid we should have a confirmed townie. Keep up with the SK paranoia, though!

God forbid nopointinactingup is town. If he's town, I'm stabbing him post-game because his play here has been utterly lazy.

[Equinox]

...I'm beginning to hate this game for all the abuse it's heaping on my brain. There's only so much thinking I can do before I explode.

I remember thinking of the AlmasterGM-Benmage possibility. I think the conclusion I came to was that Benmage would have fed AlmasterGM a power role claim, and AlmasterGM would not have ignored the scum QuickTopic. Here we are, with Benmage defending AlmasterGM because of the vanilla claim. I'm tearing apart my head right now and I don't know if I ever thought about that or why I am so certain AlmasterGM is not scum... Fuck.

Then hitogoroshi also reminds me that themanhimself and Nobody Special could not be scum together. I can't remember for the life of me why I came to that conclusion at the time, but I do remember how strongly I believed it, which may be why I've given the pass to Corvuus for so long. But Corvuus... Corvuus... What's killing me right now is that I can't find anything in my QuickTopic with Fishythefish or my iso.

Dammit.

Dammit, hitogoroshi, why won't you agree to shoot me. WHY.

Unvote

...so I got an OMGUS in my preview edit. WTF is this.

[Equinox]

I have so many apologies saved up for post-game...

My head is completely confused right now. I cannot get any reads, and I've spent

hours

trying to make sense of the current game state. I've looked up my scum reads, and I've looked up my reasoning for calling AlmasterGM-town and themanhimself-town. I don't understand either one. Reading my scum reads makes me waffle around like I'm in IHOP's kitchen, and looking up themanhimself just makes my head hurt for pretty much the same reason. The whole possibility that AlmasterGM could have been specifically fed a vanilla townie PM to WIFOM us out of lynching him makes my eyes faze over. In all likelihood, I'm in dunce mode, which wouldn't surprise me very much given that my confidence received a very serious beating yesterday afternoon.

Since my head is not working, I am going to go with my gut.

Vote: Benmage

[Equinox]

However I don't see the really big deal of outing that your immortal guy is scum when he can control voting behaviour using paranoia instead of his role.

No. Outing the scum god causes the other two temples to become masonries, which adds considerable power to the town. We're seeing that right now with the Temple of Rewards and the Temple of Time.

I have a town read on Fishythefish independent of my reads on the other two gods. Granted, I have the benefit of seeing him in the QuickTopic, but we've been working things out in there and exchanging thoughts.

[Equinox]

I should also add that Nobody Special's power is nerfed the closer to endgame we get. He can only use his ability up to 72 hours before deadline, and he freezes the votes for 24 hours. If you have enough people lingering around (see my explanation for masonries above), you can shift the votes within 48 hours.

[Equinox]

Jack's slot claimed vanilla, so I switched to the Hito wagon because he became a poor lynch. Hito claimed vig, and so is a poor lynch, so I've switched to Benmage.

If Benmage makes a claim, would he become a poor lynch...?

[Equinox]

But Wat? How does randomly distributed scum make 2 priesthoods masonries.

I wasn't talking about confirming entire priesthoods. I was talking about the uses of the lines of communication. With a scum god outed, that leaves town free to claim to their respective gods that aren't the scum god, and they are also free to ask their gods to relay messages to others within the priesthood. If there are enough strong town reads within a priesthood, then there is the potential to open up a masonry with the god as facilitator. Now the scum team have to worry about a coordinated town.

The gods' powers are but scratches on the surface. Scum wouldn't out their god; it's way too risky. Besides, the scum god needs to gain the trust of his followers in order to get them to claim to him, and then he can manipulate them as he wishes. (Too bad Nobody Special bungled this part.)

Uhhh AGM. You can post a <\3 but no response to the comments?

You do realize he has over 70 pages of material on which to catch up, and that we continue to feed this thread like it's a hungry bear.

Did you know that nopoint's iso is 1 page long for 2 game days :3/ His last post was a yawn.

I've been saying that for a while. ._.

nopointinactingup is more proactive as town. The thing that bothers me is your hide result; I realize that, if we have a roleblocker, your results mean nothing until we kill it dead with fire, but the last time I entirely discounted a result, I lost a game. (AlmasterGM would remember this one.)

... ...

Dammit. I really hate the Day 2 lynch choices right now.

We have too many claimed vanillas running around, and I want to lynch from that pool... but there are people outside of that pool I want to lynch even more. If I lynch outside of the pool of claimants, there is potential for serious damage to the town, and God knows I've done enough damage as it is.

You know what, let's hit closer to home. My vote on Benmage. I hate that he's using self-meta as a defense, and I know from experience that martyr cards work ridiculously well as an AtE defense. (I'm aware of the irony of this statement. ) However, I have yet to see scum use a martyr card, so that's giving me doubts about my vote right now.

I hate how indecisive I'm being. Fucking hell.

[Equinox]

You know what, it's not even the lynch choices anymore. It's my damned list of reads. The left end of the spectrum is solid, but everyone else flits around on every little whimsy.

Unvote

List of people I need to reinvestigate later when I'm done writing for a class: AlmasterGM, Benmage, Corvuus, populartajo

Hold me to that. I expect to be able to start those in about 4 hours.

[Equinox]

Oh, I forgot to mention. I'm about to start my slew of midterms next week, and since there's a lot riding on my performance on those things, I'm going to be

V/LA March 7-10

I might be able to check in once or twice during this period to make short responses if needed, but otherwise all major projects are on hold (including the Super Reread).

If you guys plan on killing me or something, please let me know before March 7 so I can put Rush Priority on this game before I take my exit. kthx

[Equinox]

Can we kill it?

[Equinox]

...okay, how the fuck do people read "I'm not XXX" as softclaiming "I'm XXX." Doesn't saying "not" defeat the purpose. DrippingGoofball,

I was NOT softclaiming PGO

, I was trying to convince you to get me vigged so I can

forget about this game

stop being a distraction. And because hitogoroshi is being stubborn I get to stick around like fodder.

I know Mafia is a game of trying to read between the lines, but seriously.

Got a couple of hours before I have to leave for class, so I'm going to finish up those isolation reads now and kill somebody.

[Equinox]

So my reading notes are turning into a dissertation. Good news is that I'm not waffling anymore.

btw, my hitlist, those are ppl I don't have town reads on:
Andy, hito, LB, Benmage, AGM

I think it's your turn to write something other than a one- or two-liner for once. I'm going to make you accountable to this hit list.

Why Andrius? Why hitogoroshi? Why Lost Butterfly? (WHY?!) Why Benmage? Why AlmasterGM?

Just because the game has stalled doesn't mean you get to sit around dodging prods and yawning. You're supposedly confirmed town by DTMaster's hide, NOW ACT LIKE ONE.

[Equinox]

For what it's worth, I randomized the positions as follows:

1-5 are God A's followers, 6-10 God B's, 11-15 God C's.

then I fed numbers 1-15 into a random list generator and the first X numbers (where X is the number of scum in this game) were scum. For example, if there are seven scum in this game and my randomizer listed 3,5,7,9,13,14,15 as numbers, then there would be 2 scum under Gods A and B and three under God C.

This might be relevant.

[Equinox]

Numbers mine.

I saw that, Equinox.
I walked right by it and chuckled.
⁽¹⁾ It wouldn't be the first time a mod said something to prevent breakage.
⁽²⁾ But still; the likely hood of ONE scum being in Judgement is THIS HIGH. *stretches arms out really tall*

I actually trust zoraster here. He's indicated somewhere -- may have been the sign-ups thread or the advert in Theme Test Market, but definitely on his wiki -- that he videotaped himself doing the randomization.

I tried to do the temple-by-temple reading, too. Honestly, after doing some of this individual reading, I think I blew too much time trying to look at probability of X scum in this temple and X scum in that temple. But that's just me.

[Equinox]

(All priests in the Temple of Time should have a message from me waiting for them.)



I have been debating since yesterday who to lynch. I wrote up a huge post yesterday and earlier this morning about how I felt both AlmasterGM/Jack and Benmage were town because some of the things they did made absolutely no sense from a scum perspective given risk-benefit. Now I don't have the heart to post it because it's so damned long, and I don't think anyone cares to know, point-by-point, how I reached this conclusion. This is my stance, and that's that.

I'll summarize the other part. Personally, I have two choices here. When I play, I have two goals: One is to find and lynch scum, and the other is to protect the town. Given my reads of AlmasterGM and Benmage, these goals became mutually exclusive; AlmasterGM and Benmage have both claimed vanilla, and with the information zoraster just gave us, we're in deep shit with over half of the alive priests having claimed publicly in some manner or other. My dilemma was that I wanted to lynch outside of the pool of claimants, but the risk of debilitating the town by doing so was high. On the other hand, if I am correct, the benefits are also high, and we'll be a step up.

I am going to play gambler and...

Vote: Corvuus

L-3

I'm going to be straight up honest here and say that I can't put my finger on anything in his posts. One minute I'm reading going, "This can't be right." The next minute, I'm going, "WTF?" The third minute, I can't figure out whether it's town or scum speaking and my head just wants to explode. This goes for the rest of this slot's iso, and DTMaster has just mentioned everything that I feel needs mentioning about Corvuus's stances.

I'm done with Day 2. Can we get a lynch and move on?

If you guys need me, I'll be in Day 1 trying to make sense of the clusterfuck that is this game. I have between now and midterms to finish 80 pages, and if I manage to do that, it'll be a fucking miracle.

I haven't neccessarily called them scum, just non-town reads

...I will kill you.

[Equinox]

I don't recall who was barking that nopoint was NOT confirmed because DTM as roleblocked. But they are scum. Who was it?

I'm looking at the start Day 2, and the person who was the first to discredit DTMaster's hide result was DTMaster himself. He's referenced being called out by "half the player list" and Lady Lambdadelta in particular when he first revealed his gambit. I'm going back to take a look at that exchange.

I'm one of the major pushers for the roleblock possibility, by the way, because there is no way on the gods' green earth that nopointinactingup is town.

[Equinox]

Post 967, DTMaster claims. Going from here.

Goes WOOSH over Benmage, who points out he wasn't in Disgaea Mafia.
Goes WOOSH over SpyreX, who is now dead and was on the mafia side. I'm assuming SpyreX has no idea about the setup.
Goes WOOSH over Jack, who claimed the message he received. (By the way, Jack's reaction to this really was totally town. AlmasterGM gets a pass forever.)
Goes WOOSH over Lady Lambdadelta, who is now dead and was on the innocents' side.
Goes WOOSH over Mina, who is, like, totally confused.

The above people receive (or have received) passes.

I also dislike how you are handling the aftermath, especially since when you post 'line by line' plan, scum will either take advantage of it

(by say targeting you because you claimed hide target so they can either frame or whatever)

and I'm expecting DTm-NS to make a new plan even if it is just incredibly short-stupid just pick different target.

Think about this.

Up to this point, nobody disputed DTMaster. No one thought of the possibility that DTMaster could be blocked or anything; they took his claim at face value. I know I thought DTMaster had it good, pretty much being unNKable cop until he hit a guilty. And then we've got Corvuus, who magically thinks up the plan that scum would shoot DTMaster (and the only way this is possible given DTMaster's role is if you RB him) and then frame the guy DTMaster was supposedly hiding behind.

Confirm vote to lynch: Corvuus

Feysal (8) - DTMaster, Lady Lambdadelta, SpyreX, Nobody Special, hitogoroshi, farside22, DeathRowKitty, DrippingGoofball

This reminds me. The key reason I thought the Feysal wagon was not town-driven was hitogoroshi. Now I need to re-analyze, but that'll happen as I re-read and make notes and stuff. Notes of context + wagon analysis = I get to kill scum, I win.

I could've sworn this happened on Day 1. Where the hell is it?

Bombshell in 1152:

Do you know what a hider is? I hide behind people. If they are scum I die . I am not targetable since hide resolves before most actions int he natural order resolution. In a sense I'm claiming weak cop . You know, the guarenteed sane cop? (Barring GFs and such).

Lady Lambdadelta was first to point out action resolution in 1162. No one else followed as far as I can tell from a skim.

Ya know, after looking at 1195 again, I get the feeling scum wouldn't go down posting like that. Distinct feeling of "Here, use this after I'm dead." Environment surrounding Feysal was hostile at the time, and he was at L-1.

End of Day 1. No RB dice here. Now I have to sift through Day 2, too? :<

[Equinox]

1. DGB did you answer if you're talking with Nopoint in QT?

Not intensely, but 58 posts as of now.

I should ask... How much does he explain his reads in the QuickTopic? How often does he post in terms of intervals between posting?

[Equinox]

You're killing me here, hitogoroshi...

Ugh. You're right. It makes no sense. I don't think Jack is scum; what I read while doing that research for DrippingGoofball tells me that much, among other things. I don't think Fishythefish is scum; the universe would implode. It's imploding as it is, but you get the point. themanhimself was tunneling too hard for it to be a scum play, and Fishythefish said themanhimself was displaying the same behavior in the QuickTopic.

Why won't this game make sense to me? What the hell is wrong with it?! Dammit, what's wrong with me, I'm the one getting my reads all screwy at every little thing.

GRAWR.

SCREW THIS. NEW WAGON. I don't give a shit if I need 7 more votes. I will get 7 more votes because I swear I am going to explode otherwise.

My top suspect will <die the death> today. NO COMPROMISES.

Unvote, Vote: nopointinactingup

[Equinox]

farside22, has Fishythefish asked you to claim in QuickTopic?

[Equinox]

I'm town, Equinox is incapable of finding scum and thus turns to me with stuff like how much I should have been posting for comfort . If I haven't seen you this desperate-like before as town, I'd call you scum.

Back to this game. We need a lynch, not another claim thank you

Terrible post. Are you gloating about the fact that there's nothing on you because, well, you've done practically nothing?

After I called you out on your hit list and you

still

wouldn't explain anything, I thought you might be explaining your thought processes in private to your goddess. DrippingGoofball hasn't passionately defended you, so I can only assume you're being just as useless in your QuickTopic with her as with the rest of us in this thread. You don't explain your reads. You don't make any efforts to hunt scum. Instead, what you've done for a good part of the day is dodging prods.

You are right, though. We need a lynch, not another claim. I'm lynching you. Now die, scum, die.

[Equinox]

farside22, has Fishythefish asked you to claim in QuickTopic?

I may as well answer this - after I said that NS was scum, I asked everyone but farside to claim. I thought there was no chance at all she would.

Wait, why is TMH/NS impossible again?

...this doesn't sound right, Fishythefish. There's no harm in asking. If farside22 didn't want to claim, she'd have said so. Why did you hesitate?

themanhimself was tunneling Jack-scum and Nobody Special-scum extremely hard, and his standpoint was that we should lynch Jack -- and only Jack -- to learn if Nobody Special was scum. Given what I've said earlier about scum doing their utmost to not reveal the scum god, themanhimself-scum doing that, even as a distancing tactic, is unlikely.

Back to the game, every lynch is meh at best to me, with some being really bad [Almaster being the one that comes to mind here] but I've been procrastinating on this game so much.

Right. Every lynch today is "meh" because nobody is lynchable. Scum are probably out having a fucking field day; we're that disorganized.

You're sitting on the

Not Voting

bandwagon. That is the worst lynch, worse than whatever you think is the worst wagon right now. Please hop off and get on somebody so that this game can get a push. Preferably nopointinactingup.

I agree that BW's are good for day 1, but at this point looking for scum is more important.
Anyways I can't find it but he thought he knew my role.

I was hoping to get some rolling to get reactions and whatnot, but it's too late for that now. I think my proposal still applies, however, probably more than ever now.

As for Fishythefish knowing your role, check the most recent posts in your QuickTopic. The message I sent on Thursday may have given you that impression. If it's not that, then we've got a problem on our hands.

[Equinox]

Sorry, AlmasterGM.

I really don't like either of the lynches that look possible here. Equinox is right about TMH - TMH/NS makes no sense. And NS is the scumgod, so Corvuus isn't scum. AGM's vanilla claim was a town move.

I'll think about which I prefer tomorrow.

If you don't like the current bandwagons and need a day to figure this out, please move the deadline.

Preview edit: What the hell, Fishythefish?

[Equinox]

Staring at those two competing bandwagons makes my head hurt.

People, make my job easier and show me you can articulate why you're voting AlmasterGM and Corvuus, please. If you've already done so, linkage would be good.

If you have no idea WTF you're doing on those wagons, you've got no business on them, and you should be pushing your top suspect like your life depended on it.

If you're not voting, get your ass moving and lynch scum.

WE'VE GOT FOUR DAYS. MAKE THEM COUNT. NO PASSES FOR BEING LAZY.

I'll be fucking annoying if I have to.