In the Court of the Gods (Game Over)

[Corvuus]

trying to read and catch up.

With regards to Farside/Fishy:

I'm not sure how you two discussed me but it isn't completely accurate. I was literally walking out the door and just posted a quick reply to fishy which is the truth. I do base my initial town-read on Fishy based on Fishy-TMH quicktopic which was very few posts and the fact that NS is very likely scum God as well. I didn't develop it or make it point by point but I did state the truth in that Fishy-TMH was my main initial view for inferring fishy town AND i also stated that a Fishy-scum god (with time powers) would act differently plus difference in followers so I am convinced that my initial read is correct. I didn't have time for his question regarding who do I think is scum-God in that immediate post but I have posted my thoughts regarding DGB and I have stated why I thought NS is scum.

----

DTM, and others:

I don't understand your comments towards me nor your vote for me. It isn't even a serious analysis or accusation except that you don't understand my reasoning for why Jack/AGM must die?

I don't understand if this is deliberate misinterpretation but I did not say that Jack/AGM's flip is null. Far from it. I said that Jack's flip whether as town or scum shows NS is the scum God.

How is this null?

Jack-town does gambit -> NS scum knows of existence of traitor and so gets caught by it.

Jack-scum is doing traitor fishing and signaling which one is the scum God.

I am not saying that Jack/AGM is *certain* scum, I'm saying his flip is certain information and that if AGM can, he can post and if also pm/quicktopic show that he/jack/AGM are town and that NS is scum.

I don't consider this likely. He mentions that there are 2 points in the quicktopic with NS but this is strange since NS didn't make quicktopics yet or something and was doing PM and Jack himself said it was PMs that were exchanged. Unless this is a different later occurance which also doesn't make sense.

This is a very important lynch and I don't know why you guys are ignoring it. Even if I was convinced of hito-scum, Jack/AGM's lynch is of a much higher quality in terms of flip information. So when I say lynch Jack whether he is town or scum because even if hito is scum Jack is a better lynch, I actually meant it and if you guys thought about it, you would see why as well.

Let us say you lynch hito (who is claiming Vig, side with DGB, etc.) even if he is SK, what happens next? Even if Hito was scum, the possible scenarios for town to examine do not decrease as much as Jack's flip does.

Let's say we lynch one of the other players who has variable amount of 'potential traitor fishing'. This also makes zero sense in that if Jack is scum and traitor fishing, then the analysis is different and if Jack is town and just lol gambit caught traitor Spyrex and NS scum God then the analysis is different since scum may have fished independently of Jack-town.

It is a possible scenario which I have accounted for in all the possible permutations. So when you accuse me of either saying "null" or being wishy-washy, it is utter BS. I have considered Jack/AGM as town and as scum, reasoning and end results and permutations. He is THE best lynch.

Due to the fact that Spyrex-Traitor trying to signal he was scum may have fallen on deaf ears, it could signal jack was town so NS, etc. ignored Spyrex trying to signal jack since it just didn't make sense to them. We won't really know until the game ends regarding that.

So I gave Jack the chance to explain himself and while it is extremely unlikely he could convince me out of a good policy lynch where town gains info regardless of Jack's alignment, I was waiting. It hasn't happened and so I'm going to continue saying that Jack/AGM flip is extremely important.

I will note that I also considered the possibility of an outside role and that Jack, if a third party role, may have considered this possible gambit and thought it was good for various reasons. Example: Assuming Jack is a survivor: Jack is just loling around and doesn't expect NS to claim scum to him. He immediately posts this. Why? Well because scum will never want to kill him since it can pretty much verify that NS is scum. Jack/AGM at L-1 would have to claim vanilla since if he claims power role, then he WILL die at some point in the game in that, scum will kill him as he is power role, town will kill him as he lives too long. So what could have happened was great for Jack in day 1 (whether scum, town or other) but then blew up in his face with a traitor flip.

If he was a 3rd party (or even a total complete liar) then his policy lynch would be horrible in that a lying Jack town (i.e. never had conversation with NS) would be a false confirmation of NS as scum God resulting in significant damage to town in the long run.

To account for ALL possibilities, whether Jack is town, scum, other, liar, telling the truth, I worded my response in such a way so that Jack could respond and that hopefully his respond would illuminate which exact scenario it is.

AGM and NS have stated that there is a quicktopic and that there is some 2 lines or something in it. I see no reason for NS and AGM to both lie about this based on permutations so the scenario where Jack-town screws us all over is not possible. Thus Jack/AGM is still the best lynch since regardless of his flip, it proves NS is scum-God AND it helps with possible traitor fishing analysis.

----

If you still don't understand or like me, well i don't have the time. I am playing this game though and I am telling you that Jack/AGM *must* die since based on responses by NS and AGM, AGM is likely scum. I consider the AGM scum, NS town to be virtually impossible due to above/previous reasoning AND the fact that AGM's wagon would fall so completely apart when I go VLA when trading a single AGM scum for completely screwing over a town God and 'masons' aftermath is very reasonable.

I expect AGM to flip scum and when he does, there will be questions regarding all this other wagon/random crap that has filled these pages.

Corvuus
p.s. very vla-ish. Next potential post will be friday midnight ish for me most likely.

[DTMaster]

I'm on my phone now. I notice though there's an odd difficulty between the Courvis and Almaster wagon. This is an odd change from yesterday and the Jack/Almaster and the Hitowagon. There is gold here.

I won't be able to post full thoughts till tomorrow so checking in.

[DTMaster]

1. DGB did you answer if you're talking with Nopoint in QT?
2. Equinox/Farside just answered that Fishy talked in QT. Thus that's a good sign.
3. I need to consider distance theory for a moment while I mull over the wagon developments.
4. A question: Why did you call Jack town even though now you are advocating that he's the best lynch today. He's definitely a competing wagon, but for the first half of day 2 you didn't hold this day 1 theory favourably. Why the change now?

You're argument is based largely on the D1 gambit. But you changed your stance. I find this suspicious because you had all of day 2 to bring this forward, and only after Jack gets thrown to lynchable range do you decide "hes the best lynch" with this argument. Where's the Equinox/DTM case? Why the delay?

[DTMaster]

You know how you "emphasise" on that AGM may or may not be scum? I could understand if you had a town read that got changed into a scum read (ala like my DRK case). I simply don't understand how you can support an informational lynch after strongly standing by a town read, then being wishy washy about it. I thought you were hunting scum, not lynching for the sake of lynching to get information after the fact.

You have information during the lynch process and after the lynch flip of any person for information. The links and people maybe different, but your effort is best set on a scum read. Do you find AGM scummy (well Jack since AGM didn't really post anything outside his claim or do you find something off here).

Note the difference between your arguments and DGB is that DGB is actively calling AGM scum for the claim for XYZ reasons. You are simply going: If he's town or scum he's the best lynch because it has the most information. You're not voting against a scum read, you're voting for the sake of "information" which is a lazy way to say: I don't want to make arguments.

You called the gambits done by Jack townie, and better then mine multiple times previously. I find your intentions for your case to be poor. This doesn't read as a townie who cares about his scum reads, or even actively is trying to find scum. There's a lot of what ifs scenerios, and not enough: "how can I reduce this slew of paranoia so that I can cross out potential scum reads and change them to town reads in my scum hunting".

[Feysal]

Okay, I went and promised content today, but I'm still not completely caught up. Only four pages left though, so I've read enough to do this.

Unvote: hitogoroshi

And here I was certain Lost Butterfly would be the vigilante after Faraday said SpyreX was obvscum.

I'm not sure what to think about Jack/AGM now. The way he claimed seemed sincere enough, and claiming vanilla in that situation is usually a death sentence for scum. There was a lot of talk about whether he should have claimed a power role as scum, but all of that says little about AGM, who was not participating. Out of all that, Benmage looked somewhat odd. Before the claim he said he would probably not believe any claim, and encourage hammering afterwards, but what he actually did was unvote, since NS was not voting. I'm somewhat surprised at how easily Benmage gave up on pushing the Jack/AGM wagon.

I've also liked some of Tajo's recent posts. I follow the logic of his latest case on DGB, though I don't share his conclusion. If the claim was fake, not only DGB and hitogoroshi but also Andrius would have to be in on the lie. I don't see scum putting that many eggs in one basket, and scum would not have killed SpyreX instead of recruiting him in the first place. In other words, hitogoroshi's claim checks out, though serial killer remains possible.

That unfortunately means that if the town has such powerful roles (association cop, hider, vigilante/SK), the scum probably has something to counter that. Role blocker would seem likely. The good thing about that is though that one role blocker can't block both DTMaster and hitogoroshi, so we will either get kills or confirmed townies.

More later when I'm not about to fall asleep at any moment.

[nopointinactingup]

Why Andrius? Why hitogoroshi? Why Lost Butterfly? (WHY?!) Why Benmage? Why AlmasterGM?

Just because the game has stalled doesn't mean you get to sit around dodging prods and yawning. You're supposedly confirmed town by DTMaster's hide, NOW ACT LIKE ONE.

I haven't neccessarily called them scum, just non-town reads

@Andy: That's sm serious assumption to make, but I agree with your outcome vote xD.

Interesting... so theoretically PR location could tell us where the scum are.

probably better with more flips, we can start making these kinda deductions.

[Equinox]

(All priests in the Temple of Time should have a message from me waiting for them.)



I have been debating since yesterday who to lynch. I wrote up a huge post yesterday and earlier this morning about how I felt both AlmasterGM/Jack and Benmage were town because some of the things they did made absolutely no sense from a scum perspective given risk-benefit. Now I don't have the heart to post it because it's so damned long, and I don't think anyone cares to know, point-by-point, how I reached this conclusion. This is my stance, and that's that.

I'll summarize the other part. Personally, I have two choices here. When I play, I have two goals: One is to find and lynch scum, and the other is to protect the town. Given my reads of AlmasterGM and Benmage, these goals became mutually exclusive; AlmasterGM and Benmage have both claimed vanilla, and with the information zoraster just gave us, we're in deep shit with over half of the alive priests having claimed publicly in some manner or other. My dilemma was that I wanted to lynch outside of the pool of claimants, but the risk of debilitating the town by doing so was high. On the other hand, if I am correct, the benefits are also high, and we'll be a step up.

I am going to play gambler and...

Vote: Corvuus

L-3

I'm going to be straight up honest here and say that I can't put my finger on anything in his posts. One minute I'm reading going, "This can't be right." The next minute, I'm going, "WTF?" The third minute, I can't figure out whether it's town or scum speaking and my head just wants to explode. This goes for the rest of this slot's iso, and DTMaster has just mentioned everything that I feel needs mentioning about Corvuus's stances.

I'm done with Day 2. Can we get a lynch and move on?

If you guys need me, I'll be in Day 1 trying to make sense of the clusterfuck that is this game. I have between now and midterms to finish 80 pages, and if I manage to do that, it'll be a fucking miracle.

I haven't neccessarily called them scum, just non-town reads

...I will kill you.

[Lost Butterfly]

So I'm mostly over the depression that came from Hitogate. I also got a message from fishy. *hi five*

Equinox I think the 'protect the town' goal at this stage is well naive, we've got our hider and vig outed and our cop role dead. I'd prefer to just lynch scum or something.

Npointinactingup, more like nopointinposting amirit.

Someone give me bulletpoints on why Corvuss/TMH is scummy, if they'd be so kind.

[DrippingGoofball]

1. DGB did you answer if you're talking with Nopoint in QT?

Not intensely, but 58 posts as of now.

[DrippingGoofball]

...and scum would not have killed SpyreX instead of recruiting him in the first place.

In fact, the scum recruits the Traitor

BY KILLING HIM

.

[DrippingGoofball]

My spidey sense is tingling.

I would bet that the scum did in fact RB DTM.

They're the ones who have been insisting on the possibility of it quite strongly.

I don't recall who was barking that nopoint was NOT confirmed because DTM as roleblocked. But they are scum. Who was it?

[Equinox]

I don't recall who was barking that nopoint was NOT confirmed because DTM as roleblocked. But they are scum. Who was it?

I'm looking at the start Day 2, and the person who was the first to discredit DTMaster's hide result was DTMaster himself. He's referenced being called out by "half the player list" and Lady Lambdadelta in particular when he first revealed his gambit. I'm going back to take a look at that exchange.

I'm one of the major pushers for the roleblock possibility, by the way, because there is no way on the gods' green earth that nopointinactingup is town.

[Equinox]

Post 967, DTMaster claims. Going from here.

Goes WOOSH over Benmage, who points out he wasn't in Disgaea Mafia.
Goes WOOSH over SpyreX, who is now dead and was on the mafia side. I'm assuming SpyreX has no idea about the setup.
Goes WOOSH over Jack, who claimed the message he received. (By the way, Jack's reaction to this really was totally town. AlmasterGM gets a pass forever.)
Goes WOOSH over Lady Lambdadelta, who is now dead and was on the innocents' side.
Goes WOOSH over Mina, who is, like, totally confused.

The above people receive (or have received) passes.

I also dislike how you are handling the aftermath, especially since when you post 'line by line' plan, scum will either take advantage of it

(by say targeting you because you claimed hide target so they can either frame or whatever)

and I'm expecting DTm-NS to make a new plan even if it is just incredibly short-stupid just pick different target.

Think about this.

Up to this point, nobody disputed DTMaster. No one thought of the possibility that DTMaster could be blocked or anything; they took his claim at face value. I know I thought DTMaster had it good, pretty much being unNKable cop until he hit a guilty. And then we've got Corvuus, who magically thinks up the plan that scum would shoot DTMaster (and the only way this is possible given DTMaster's role is if you RB him) and then frame the guy DTMaster was supposedly hiding behind.

Confirm vote to lynch: Corvuus

Feysal (8) - DTMaster, Lady Lambdadelta, SpyreX, Nobody Special, hitogoroshi, farside22, DeathRowKitty, DrippingGoofball

This reminds me. The key reason I thought the Feysal wagon was not town-driven was hitogoroshi. Now I need to re-analyze, but that'll happen as I re-read and make notes and stuff. Notes of context + wagon analysis = I get to kill scum, I win.

I could've sworn this happened on Day 1. Where the hell is it?

Bombshell in 1152:

Do you know what a hider is? I hide behind people. If they are scum I die . I am not targetable since hide resolves before most actions int he natural order resolution. In a sense I'm claiming weak cop . You know, the guarenteed sane cop? (Barring GFs and such).

Lady Lambdadelta was first to point out action resolution in 1162. No one else followed as far as I can tell from a skim.

Ya know, after looking at 1195 again, I get the feeling scum wouldn't go down posting like that. Distinct feeling of "Here, use this after I'm dead." Environment surrounding Feysal was hostile at the time, and he was at L-1.

End of Day 1. No RB dice here. Now I have to sift through Day 2, too? :<

[Benmage]

Tl
/Dr from phone.

I've been saying dtm claim was idiotic, and I hope he got roleblocked...that makes me scum?

[Equinox]

1. DGB did you answer if you're talking with Nopoint in QT?

Not intensely, but 58 posts as of now.

I should ask... How much does he explain his reads in the QuickTopic? How often does he post in terms of intervals between posting?

[DrippingGoofball]

I should ask... How much does he explain his reads in the QuickTopic? How often does he post in terms of intervals between posting?

Barely and sparsely. This being said, it doesn't clash with his in-thread posting style. Unfortunately.

[zoraster]

Day 2 Vote Count

Andrius ( 1 ) AlmasterGM,

(L - 7 )

populartajo ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

hitogoroshi ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

nopointinactingup ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

Equinox ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

farside22 ( 1 ) Benmage,

(L - 7 )

Feysal ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

Lost Butterfly ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

Corvuus ( 5 ) DTMaster, populartajo, farside22,

DrippingGoofball,

Equinox,

(L - 3 )

Benmage ( 1 )

Fishythefish,

(L - 7 )

Almaster GM ( 4 ) Andrius, nopointinactingup, Corvuus, hitogoroshi,

(L - 4 )

DTMaster ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

No Lynch ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

Not Voting ( 3 )

Nobody Special,

Lost Butterfly, Feysal,
Total Votes ( 15 )

Deadline: March 7th at 23:00 EDT
With 15 able to vote, 8 needed to lynch.

[Nobody Special]

I got prodded yesterday. Work very busy. Promise content late, late tonight.

[Benmage]

Unvote Vote Corvuus

[hitogoroshi]

I don't like this Corvuus wagon. It's really, really good if he flips scum, because that basicially guarantees Fishy-scum...but I don't think Fishy is scum.

farside, Equinox: Do *you* think Fishy is scum? Or do you think that TMH-scum bussed Jack-scum just to make NS-scum look town? Or do you think TMH-scum was screaming for a Jack-town lynch to prove that his god NS-scum was indeed a scum god? You have to believe one if you're gonna say Corvuus is scum.

[Equinox]

You're killing me here, hitogoroshi...

Ugh. You're right. It makes no sense. I don't think Jack is scum; what I read while doing that research for DrippingGoofball tells me that much, among other things. I don't think Fishythefish is scum; the universe would implode. It's imploding as it is, but you get the point. themanhimself was tunneling too hard for it to be a scum play, and Fishythefish said themanhimself was displaying the same behavior in the QuickTopic.

Why won't this game make sense to me? What the hell is wrong with it?! Dammit, what's wrong with me, I'm the one getting my reads all screwy at every little thing.

GRAWR.

SCREW THIS. NEW WAGON. I don't give a shit if I need 7 more votes. I will get 7 more votes because I swear I am going to explode otherwise.

My top suspect will <die the death> today. NO COMPROMISES.

Unvote, Vote: nopointinactingup

[farside22]

I don't like this Corvuus wagon. It's really, really good if he flips scum, because that basicially guarantees Fishy-scum...but I don't think Fishy is scum.

farside, Equinox: Do *you* think Fishy is scum? Or do you think that TMH-scum bussed Jack-scum just to make NS-scum look town? Or do you think TMH-scum was screaming for a Jack-town lynch to prove that his god NS-scum was indeed a scum god? You have to believe one if you're gonna say Corvuus is scum.

I don't trust Fishy. I'm not 100% feeling town from any post I read. The only 2 things in his favor is how scummy NS is being and that he is not screwing the town by making the days short.
Seriously those are the only 2 reason's he's not 100% scum. That's not a good town read in my book.

[Equinox]

farside22, has Fishythefish asked you to claim in QuickTopic?

[nopointinactingup]

I'm town, Equinox is incapable of finding scum and thus turns to me with stuff like how much I should have been posting for comfort . If I haven't seen you this desperate-like before as town, I'd call you scum.

Back to this game. We need a lynch, not another claim thank you

[Fishythefish]

farside22, has Fishythefish asked you to claim in QuickTopic?

I may as well answer this - after I said that NS was scum, I asked everyone but farside to claim. I thought there was no chance at all she would.

Wait, why is TMH/NS impossible again?