Mini 1044: Lie to Me Mafia - Game Over

[Antihero]

/confirm

[Antihero]

Timezone:

why do you need to know?

Experience:

join date to the left

Fave Role:

ha ha, nice rolefish

Playstyle in a nutshell:

Fairly aggressive

Are you familiar with the theme?

Yes; this show and House are the only two TV shows I watch.

Fave Alignment or Role: (I know this isn't a upick but it is still an important question for when we need to start

looking at motives for actions

rolefishing.)

Fixed

Also disclaimer: I changed my avvie independently to this game. I didn't find out about this game until about two days after I changed my avvie.

VOTE: Tazaro

Preview edit: I'm way ahead of you.

[Antihero]

But you don't think that the role someone receives would influence the answer to that question?

[Antihero]

VOTE: Tazaro

Oh, that was for claiming scum in post 34. Sorry for not clarifying before.

[Antihero]

Robbnva and Espeonage, have either of you actually played Jester before. Because it sucks.

In other news, Tazaro is still scum. Wagon, please.

[Antihero]

UNVOTE: Tazaro
VOTE: Tasky

[Antihero]

Why am I scum?

No reason. I just had to get the ball rolling with some tunneling.

Now, as to why Tasky seriously is scum.

Look at how Tasky answered the questions. The first five (minus the timezone) are all answered in the same style: "answer, some detail." The last question is simply answered in one word (and in all caps to make sure we're all convinced of it). The styles of answering the question changed from when he was probably telling the truth to the last question; he's lying.

[Antihero]

And the fact that he followed my senseless tunneling doesn't help either.

[Antihero]

Look at how Tasky answered the questions. The first five (minus the timezone) are all answered in the same style: "answer, some detail." The last question is simply answered in one word (and in all caps to make sure we're all convinced of it). The styles of answering the question changed from when he was probably telling the truth to the last question; he's lying.

wow... so you think you know better than me what alignment I prefer to play?
and even if I preferred to play mafia over playing town, how exactly would that make me scummy in this game since I did not pick my role.

I actually voted Tazaro for inter-game reasons (we played a game recently where he was believed to be scum by everybody but turned out town in the end). nothing to do with following your tunnel (the whole world is NOT rotating around you)

Tasky, whatever I say and whatever tone I say it in, I

don't

mean personally (also, I'm not nearly as confident as my tone suggests). Relax, it's just a game.

Overanalyis much?

That's how I roll. :p

Now, can anyone tell me why this post is incredibly scummy?

I noticed how Taz was the only one brave enough to say that his favorite alignment was scum. I also noticed how Tasky put his preference in all caps.

Vote: Tasky

because his emphasis on preferring town is scummy. If you prefer town, you should just say it. Highlighting it like that looks like you're trying to score town points.

It's the beginning of the game, vote is highly subject to change, etc. etc.

Preview edit: Tasky's idea is a good one

[Antihero]

I am aligned with the town.

[Antihero]

Zerofang, you plagiarizer :p

(1) What are your rules for defining RVS?

What significance does this question have? What information about people's alignments do you hope to gain from the answer to this question?

(2) What do you call the stage after RVS?

Why do you care!?

(3) What are your rules that define the next Stage?

You know, all the answers to these questions do is clutter up the discussion.

(4) How many times have you played mafia alignment?

Finally, a question that might have scumhunting meta significance. A few.

(5) What makes it less favorable to you than playing town alignment?

I was just trying to get discussion going with the whole mini analysis of Tasky's answer; this question will go nowhere.

That Tasky vote is aweful.

Let's take a look at SOW's last few posts. Right after my Tasky vote:

Tasky, are you aligned with town in this game? Will you have a favorite experience, or an unfavorite experience?

I think we should vote players for intra-game reasons, and not inter-game reasons. It does not matter what role they played in another game. It only matters what role they play in this game.

What do you mean by a "favorite experience"?
Stating the obvious is a mild scumtell, you know.

Nice! Another RV for "whatever reason you want..." I assume, the dot dot dot, means you can fabricate "whatever reason you want..." I am honestly okay with what ever vote you cast at this point. As it cannot yet lead to an incorrect lynch. But, I will have my eye on you to see if you continue to fabricate "whatever reason you want..."

Is anyone else scratching their head at this paragraph?

You are really focused on the term "rolefish".

(1) What qualifies as role fishing?
(2) What details made you think of this specific question?
(3) What details made you think that everyone should make the same statement?
(4) Why do you assume that such a mechanism of "lie detector" would effectively respond to such a statement by each player?

*sigh*
Too much!

SOW, what's the reason for

your

Tasky vote?

[Antihero]

...which I don't have...

[offtopic]

Right click on the picture Zerofang posted and "Save Picture As..." This saves the picture on your computer.

Now, go to the place where you change your avatar and upload the picture from your computer.

[/offtopic]

[Antihero]

Yes, much better (and easier on the eyes).

Now, who do you think is scum?

[Antihero]

Why am I a plagiarizer?

Using bold, blue text inside the quote box.

[Antihero]

...and we have our first wagon. Let's take a look at the order (feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken).

Me, Robbnva, ZeroFang, SOW, jimfinn

I wouldn't say anything so far is truly all that scummy (since it's still pretty much RVS/RQS), but I'm going to RVS VOTE: Tasky

Like zero said, it's not the RVS anymore. Also, nothing is scummy, not even SOW's crappy vote?

UNVOTE: Tasky
VOTE: jimfinn

Preview edit:

There are several Tasky votes, yes.

Yeah, that was L-2.

What scumtells there are are minor at best, nothing too serious IMO.

Such as...

Wagon reactions

(like your reaction to the Tasky one?)

are more likely to create scumtells that I pick up on than RQS answers and related discussion.

Another preview edit:

That is to say, disagreements over the meanings of terms such as rolefishing and the odd capitalization of TOWN do not seem (at least to me) to be anything significant

Well, if you have something better, please come forward with it

, and no serious reason for voting is brought to my attention, though I am very curious to see how the wagon plays out. Wagon players up and down and see how they react - that's how you catch scum.

You know, vague neutrality is a pretty reliable scumtell.

[Antihero]

What do you mean by Vague neutrality?

"I wouldn't say anything so far is truly all that scummy" That's trying to remain as neutral and in the background as possible.

Also, why is SoW's vote so terrible? It seems like a "you're not doing what we want so i vote you" type vote, which could feasibly be used by a town player trying to push a specific strategy.

A simple request to make a single post would suffice. I don't see it as a wise use of a vote.

The SoW wagon is tainted by Tazaro's prescence.

One vote is a wagon?

[Antihero]

Hint: stop fishing

[Antihero]

Antihero, were any of your votes random?

Nope

I've noticed you have a fairly aggressive playstyle, which is good for getting reactions, and pressuring scum. However, you say that you're "not as confident as your tone suggests". Are you saying that no one really should take your suspicions seriously? If not, what was the reasoning for saying that?

I just wanted to calm Tasky down and reassure him that I'm not as arrogant as my posts would suggest (he said something to the effect of "the earth doesn't revolve around YOU").

You mention SoW's crappy vote for Tasky (ISO 10, 14). Why no vote for him?

Because jimfinn is a better vote.

It's a bit odd you criticize the weakness of someone's vote when you're voting with that person.

His motivations were different from mine.

How many scum do you think were on the Tasky wagon on its peak?

2

List all of the wagoners, from most likely to be scum to least likely, assuming Tasky-Town.

I'm excluding myself (I'll let you decide that). jimfinn, SoW, Robbnva = Zerofang

Now try that assuming Tasky-Scum.

I'd have to give that one some more thought... I'll do that in my next post.

[Antihero]

Narsis is a good target, you should vig him.

[Antihero]

^What does that mean?

[Antihero]

Narsis, are you telling me that the only think you got from your read-through of the game is that question for Esp? You have no opinion on Shepherd's vote for Tasky? Tasky's vote for Robbnva? Maddie's absense? The Tasky Wagon in general? Why didn't you answer Esp's questions, if you only had that tiny little thing to comment on? Comment on ALL posts that catch your attention, even those that you just have a tiny little gut feeling about and really can't explain why.

It's because he's scum and he doesn't care about anything except for finding the power roles.

Shooty, shooty, please.

[Antihero]

I'm making this post to remind everyone that jimfinn is still scum and wagon on him would be great.

[Antihero]

*sigh* You people are insufferable.

I would rather pop my eyeballs out of their sockets with a plastic spoon than read these endless posts that ultimately tell me

nothing

.

It's the only thing that really caught my attention. everything this early in the game is more of a null tell to me. not saying there may or may not be some scum/town tells, but this early in the game they dont mean much to me.

Someone asked me what vague neutrality was earlier.
This sentence is another good example of it.

Maddie's absense?

Don't know. doesnt exactly look like lurking scum to me, but regardless i dont like the lack of posts

So, which is it? Do you not like that she's not posting, or is it not a big deal to you?
By the way, a quick search of all Maddie's post on this site reveals she hasn't posted anywhere in the past couple days.

oftentimes other players may have already caught something that stuck out to me. i see no reason to repeat what they are saying. however if i do see something that i think someone missed, then i will bring it forward.

OK.
Who do you think is the scummiest player? Summarize (concisely) why, please.

[Antihero]

*exasperated*

Can SOMEONE please read Narsis and jimfinn's posts and tell me I'm not crazy?

[Antihero]

Everyone else

I think we should not be too hasty to lynch too soon before deadline. But, I want to hear everyones opinion.
(1) Why should we not lynch Tazaro for Day 1?

Because there are people acting scummier.

(2) Who should be lynched instead, and WHY?

jimfinn and Narsis are two good picks.

(3) What do you think about TAZARO being so insistent that I needed to be pressured UNVOTE Tasky? See post #104.

I don't see the significance of this, or the implications it has for Tazaro's alignment.

(4) What do you think about the fact that TAZARO has not changed his vote, nor laid down a case against me, nor attempted to pursue other players with questions or charges?

He's the only player who read Narsis and told me what he thinks, so this question is kind of stupid to me.

[Antihero]

Oh, and did anyone actually look at this post?

1. I can at times be a more gut than logic player, but it is hard to convince other players to follow a gut read. I prefer having a kill so that I can act on my gut reads.
2. I don't particularly like his posts or his reasons, but they have a more "bad-town-play" than "scum-play" feel to them.
3. You shouldn't. It's far too early for a shot or a lynch. No one has much of a strong read yet.
4A. Clarification: we learn more about people other than the person the wagon is on from the wagon, in my experience. I say that if in a 12 player game, players A,B,C, and D wagon player E and players G and J defend him, we learn far more about A,B,C,D,G, and J than we do about E.
4B. A player with a wagon being formed on him (assuming some logical explanation for the votes) ought to explain his intention in the posts for which he is being wagoned. He should also continue to scumhunt as normal. He should only claim at L-1, claim truthfully, and (if and only if it is Day 1) encourage the town to lynch him if he is a VT (though he should not self-hammer - town should pretty much never self-hammer except in extraordinary circumstances). I refer to this as Hohum's Theory (after the player who explained it to me). Basically, it says that if there are 12 players in the game lettered A through J and there are exactly three scum (call them A,B,C) and three PRs(D,E,F) and six VTs (G-J) and G claims VT on D1 at L-1; the town chooses to lynch another player who happens to also flip VT. Now the scum have a 3/7 chance of hitting a PR with the NK. If they had lynched G, the scum would only have a 3/8 chance of hitting a PR.

Notice that this post is padded with theory and contains almost no opinions about what is going on in this particular game.

Oh, and nothing about why his vote went to (and is still on) Tasky. Reminder: At the time, it was the 5th vote on the wagon.



Preview edit: I don't see jim's Tasky vote on the votecount, though I don't see where jim removed it.

Mod: Is the vote count correct?

[Antihero]

Tunneling me HARDCORE is a pretty good reason for me to keep my vote on you.

Did you notice the other six questions? Even if you do not get lynched today, this lack of response will stick out as your sore thumb Day 2. I recommend you give me some reasonable response.

I am tunneling you because you are scum. And Tasky is your partner. And, I am pretty sure Antihero is third in the group.

What, because I'm not following the bs "case"?

But, you are the worthiest of the three to be lynched. Your behavior reaks of scumminess.

Answer all seven questions. If you are good at it you can reduce my pressure. But, if you do not or your answers smell bad, I will continue to hound you.

[Antihero]

I was asked a series of largely theory-based questions, so I gave theory-based answers.

While two of them were crappy hypotheticals, two of them were directly trying to elicit your opinions of two players (Tasky and Rob).

OK, if certainty is a problem with you, let me rephrase the question: If the mod suddenly gave you a compulsive 1 shot day vig kill that you had to use in your next post, who would you kill and why?

DAMN, SHEPHERD IS SO SCUM!!

Meh, he's actually probably not scum; he just needs to wake up and see that Narsis and jim are acting scummier than you.

[Antihero]

Why does "playing the game" involve mass tunneling?

I'm asking again, could someone

please

read jimfinn (a few pages ago) and tell me how it's not scummy.

[Antihero]

I did not ask you to tunnel! I asked who is better to lynch than TAZARO. I have tunneled him, as you would say, because he is scum. And, he deserves to get the axe. When you have enough evidence, there comes a point when you have to act on that. We have great evidence to lynch him.

But, would you say you are not tunneling on jimfinn? What do you call your focus on him??

I'm fine with you tunneling.

I'm just wondering why everyone else is too.

[Antihero]

I did not ask you to tunnel! I asked who is better to lynch than TAZARO. I have tunneled him, as you would say, because he is scum. And, he deserves to get the axe. When you have enough evidence, there comes a point when you have to act on that. We have great evidence to lynch him.

But, would you say you are not tunneling on jimfinn? What do you call your focus on him??

I'm fine with you tunneling.

I'm just wondering why everyone else is too.

who else is tunneling him? I made my case against him but would not call it tunnling

nobody else is even talking about him

Hm, you're right.

Most of the space is taken up by you, SoW, Tasky, and Taz attacking/defending. I concluded that others were more active than they were.

Still, I don't like how jim and Narsis are slipping through the cracks.

tbh i'm kinda waiting for Tazaro to actually attempt to defend himself/make a case. still not seeing it. so instead i think i'll be a bit more proactive...

VOTE: Tazaro

Defend himself from what? What did he do originally that's scummy to you, and why didn't you mention it before? Anyone else besides Taz?

Preview edit: Taz's analogy is accurate.

[Antihero]

The argument between SoW and

Trinidad and Tobago

Tasky and Tazaro makes me think that at least one of the three is scum

notice he doesn't say why

, but

I'm waiting for more exchange of rhetoric

Does anyone else feel that this phrase is very suspect?

before I feel confident as to which of them.

Again, no real opinions. Just a vague fencesit (he's allowing himself to jump on the most popular wagon later).

More jim votes, please.

[Antihero]

Seriously, my jimmfin vote was a joke post.
Seriously, ZeroFang was one of my scum picks; I agree with CryMeARicer and second this motion:

Unvote

Vote: ZeroFang

Taz, my opinion of you is changing quickly.

Why Zero?

[Antihero]

Maddie has not posted in 8 days. NO V/LA should be acceptable for that long.

When is she due back? I think she should be replaced.

Quit with the self-righteousness, please. 12 pages is not an unmanageable catch-up length.

[Antihero]

Considering the number of players not participating, you asking for Maddie to be replaced is pretty unwarranted.

But this isn't game related, I don't believe I name called either.

Is Taz's last vote scummy to you? Why or why not?

[Antihero]

*sigh* /facepalm

What about my cases is weak? Is it that they aren't reaaaaaalllllyyyyyyyy, reallllllllyyyyyyyyy looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong?

Length =/= Strength

Also, I challenge you to find a more reliable scumtell than fencesitting.

[Antihero]

Maddie, Antihero, and ZeroFang are all town.

[Antihero]

jimfinn, GhostWriter, and Nachomamma8 are all town.

[Antihero]

Robbnva, Shepherd_of_Wolves, and Espeonage are all town.

[Antihero]

CryMeARiver, Tazaro, and Tasky are all town.

[Antihero]

*sigh*

I was about to point out the scuminess of jimfinn's last vote, but everyone would ignore me anyway. Guess I'll spare myself the few minutes it'll take for me to put together a "weak" case.

[Antihero]

Nacho is town.

...yeah, I could have told you that before Day 1 ended. Use your investigation more wisely next time, please. (If anyone votes me because this is a "scumslip," you need to stop failing)

Let me walk you all through why jim needs to be lynched today.

I wouldn't say anything so far is truly all that scummy (since it's still pretty much RVS/RQS), but I'm going to RVS VOTE: Tasky

This is the 5th vote on the Tasky wagon, and it's already page 4; yet, jim calls this vote an "RVS" vote. Scumfail

There are several Tasky votes, yes. What scumtells there are are minor at best, nothing too serious IMO. Wagon reactions are more likely to create scumtells that I pick up on than RQS answers and related discussion.
---
That is to say, disagreements over the meanings of terms such as rolefishing and the odd capitalization of TOWN do not seem (at least to me) to be anything significant, and no serious reason for voting is brought to my attention, though I am very curious to see how the wagon plays out. Wagon players up and down and see how they react - that's how you catch scum.

Oh, so you're just wagoning "for reactions"; so, why didn't any conclusions about any reactions to the Tasky wagon materialize? Because the Taz wagon was just too good for you to pass up?

I stand by what I said about post 180. jim was specifically asked for opinions about two players, and he padded his reply post with a bunch of crappy theory. Not impressed.

The argument between SoW and

Trinidad and Tobago

Tasky and Tazaro makes me think that at least one of the three is scum, but I'm waiting for more exchange of rhetoric before I feel confident as to which of them.

Please tell me that everyone sees the fencesit in this post.

Then there's finally this gem:

I agree with Nacho's plan.
unvote
VOTE: Tazaro

First off, I'm not sure what "nacho's plan" was referring to (and I still don't).
Secondly, this is obvious piggybacking to just get a lynch. More scumfail

no kill last night...interesting.

Well, that sucks. More scumpoints for Narsis.

@everyone: thoughts on the Tazaro flip?

Hahahaha
Not falling for that one

I do not believe anything Espeonage says at this point. He has not merited anyones trust.

Stop. I haven't seen esp drop nearly as many scumtells as others in this game. Plus he's a claimed PR, drop it.

why switch your playstyle? cause you mistakingly caught town?

No, because it's a protown thing to do.

VOTE: jimfinn

[Antihero]

this game needs more Robbnva votes...

No, this game needs more people removing their heads from their rear ends.

The content level of Zero's last post = 0; yeah, it sucks we lynched the main character, but any flavor discussion =

red herring

Don't accuse me of not contributing again. Just because I was drowned out by a crappy wagon yesterday, doesn't mean I didn't have anything to say.

2. not falling for what about my question?

Your asking about the Taz flip because you want to throw around some suspicion (tasky).

3. i agree that tunneling that hard isn't the most protown thing, but it does have it's place in protown play. would you rather he didnt push Taz at all and there was a no lynch?

Yes, I actually do. I know it's fashionable to be rabidly against no lynches, but they're not that big of a deal to me.

[Antihero]

Nacho suggested what seemed like a reasonable protown plan at the time to give us a flip and prevent a nolynch. I agreed and followed.

this =/= adequate defense

I do see it, but I don't think it's as strong or scummy as you make it out to be. You've already shown us why jimfinn is scum. Now you're just reaching.

It was near the end of the day. jim had plenty of time to "get a read." There's no reach there. Why are you pooh-poohing this point; it's not weaker than any of the other ones.

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand. Care to explain?

This is a reference to Tarhalindur's standard tell. From the wiki:

The "Well, That Sucks" Tell

The general form of this tell is "a player who comments on the outcome of a night when that outcome was detrimental to one or more factions is very probably scum".

This tell usually appears when a no-kill night occurs (or a low-kill night in a game with many killing roles) or when one or more major power roles is NK'ed.

That was a perfectly legitimate question which you acknowledged and dismissed.

Yes, I did dismiss it. Because it wasn't going to get us anywhere.

Than why weren't you doing it before?

Why wasn't I doing what before?

What's so wrong about using a particular response to add to the case for or against a particular player?

Call me paranoid, but I don't think you're going to use the answers to actually find scum. But I'm biased because I have a scum read on you...

Jimfinn explain your fence sitting and deliberate RVS, yet not RVS, vote on TASKY. I am starting to think you are scum. And, I would still not be surprised if Tasky was one partner.

Goodposting. d(''d)
I actually failed to think of that... I need to go back and reread Tasky when I get the time.

[Antihero]

Town: Tasky, Locke, SoW, nacho
Scum: jim, Narsis

Tasky, please summarize the case on Rob.

I actually find the "Well that sucks" to be the most reliable among static, isolated tells.

[Antihero]

EBWOP

Add espeonage to town

[Antihero]

Why do you think I am town?

Mostly the diction of your posts. It's not really important; making town lists just helps me narrow the list of suspects.

Would you night-kill me if you were scum?

No, if I were scum and knew you were town, I would probably just let SoW loose on you, jump on the wagon, sit back, and watch the mislynch (much like what I think scum did to Taz, and are doing now).

I actually find the "Well that sucks" to be the most reliable among static, isolated tells.

hmm. could you provide evidence?

Meh, this is a matter of opinion and comes from a person's particular experience (some like the tell, others don't). A discussion on this is not going to be helpful.

Is it also a good tell when there are non-static, non-isolated tells out there?

Yep

are you basing your whole case on that tell?

No. Blatant rolefishing, a crappy wagon jump, and some incoming OMGUS are the main basis of my scumread. The "well that sucks" is just the cherry on top of the steaming pile of scumfail.

coming with the reread but an initial thought would point towards AntiHero-scum

Oh, how shocking

nothing about it actually. i was using it as a trap. and AntiHero bit the bait.

And when were going to reveal this to us? Before or after the claimed day vig voted you and threatened to shoot your buddy?

Watching you finagle a case on me is going to be entertaining. Looking forward to reading it.

[Antihero]

17: He is hyper focussed on what seems to seem "like a reasonable protown plan". He is just following the PROTOWN crowd. Not being a mover of the protown crowd. In even participating in it. Just following it. Because, if it seems protown, maybe that will shed on him.

This is the point that I am making just above, he blames his vote on being convinced by NACHO. Not based on the rhetoric he was looking for between the three players he found suspicious.

This is a very good point that I hope doesn't get lost in the text wall.

Than you could have answered it, correct?

I could've, but I didn't. Scum w/ a red herring = damage

In all honesty, I think SoW is the only one who's genuinely surprised at the Taz flip. He made the case, and everyone else on the wagon mindlessly followed.

Preview edit:
Um, Narsis, you do know why your "trap" fails, right?

[Antihero]

if you are referring to it, not being a very reliable scum tell in and of itself...you are right. by itself it's no more a scum tell then you wiki tell.

Hm, we're not on the same page here.

Scum are likely to comment on the night results because it serves the purpose of making them seem like they have something to say when they really don't.

Now, pointing out this scumtell is a scumtell because... and that's where we're not on the same page.

however i find the fact that you are picking and choosing which questions directed at you to answer, and which ones to blow off as "scum trying to get you to fall into a trap so they can get you easily lynched"

Excuse me, where did I say this?

you are attempting to control what you respond to.

Yes, exactly. Because there's relevant information and there's red herrings. If we chase after every red herring, we would start getting walls of text, which in my experience very rarely actually catch scum.

[Antihero]

are you talking about SoW's or Narsis' point?

SoW's

Why do town have less to say than scum?

This is an oversimplication of what I said. My point is that "well, that sucks" is the scummiest form of active lurking.

a) hop all over it as a wiki tell. here they are attempting to give credence to an "easy" mislynch on a player. they see something that some really good scum hunters claim as a common scum tell, and jump all over it hard. and the only explanation: it's a wiki tell.

You do know that this isn't the only reason I think you're scum, right?

b) agree with me/start set up speculation. here they are trying to draw discussion away from scum hunting, and if called out on it can point fingers at me as the person that started it.

This is why "well, that sucks" is a scumtell in the first place.

[Antihero]

SoW, lay off the rolefishing.

jimfinn is still scum, a wagon would be great.

[Antihero]

Antihero

, you must be joking.

Nope
I think Tasky is townish, I think you're chasing a red herring on this one.
I still think Narsis is scum though.

Why is it better to lynch jimfinn over Narsis?

Because jim is so obvscum, it's painful, and Narsis is just obvscum.

Why do you want to keep Narsis around?

I don't.

Why do you want to keep jimfinn around?

I don't.

[Antihero]

the lie to me episode tonight = awesome[/sidenote]

Mokujin, we need something from you, because it's already page 20 and we have absolutely NOTHING from you or Maddie.

[Antihero]

You said you would be a burden to town. Anti-town is usually first pick for vig kills before scummy peeps.

NO!

So, Narsis, everyone is town/null?

This game desperately needs another flip. Nacho, could you please vig jim now?

[Antihero]

What's with the "no less than 9 posts" requirement?

Just give us something that doesn't look like a fencesit.

[Antihero]

I'm waiting for jim to flip...

[Antihero]

Do you seriously think that's a possibility at this point?

[Antihero]

The fact that we have a flaked player ruins the idea of salvage by that means. I think we have to let it go.

A

flaked player? As in singular? This game has been plagued by lurkers from Day 1. While continuing this game would be fine with me, I would prefer to let it go.

So basically a modkill?

I wouldn't be opposed to modkilling the Maddie/Mokujin slot. It's already in the 20+ pages and we have NOTHING from that slot.

Meme, if you can get a backup mod, we can all just PM our roles to him/her (I'm just under the assumption everyone will be honest, but I guess that's another flaw with this plan).

[Antihero]

I am interested in continuing.

Well...

you

won't be.

[Antihero]

Godfather?

[Antihero]

Espy, put your vote back on now!
jim claimed doc because he was trying to out the real one and he succeeded.

This is a mini game, I seriously doubt we have 2 docs.

[Antihero]

Narsis, I was about to not get lynched. What are you doing?

Nice job trying to plant some WIFOM.

VOTE: Nacho for telling people to lynch me when I'm obviously the doctor.

LOL
Why are you not voting Espy since he CCed your role?

[Antihero]

Espy, target please.

[Antihero]

I'm thinking ZeroFang and Narsis are likely jim's partners.

ZeroFang is the first person I've seen to chainsaw defend someone and bus him at the same time.

VOTE: ZeroFang

[Antihero]

I protected zerofang. So that means that either zerofang is town and got targetted or scum didn't kill anyone in case I confirmed one of them as town from the no kill. Sooooooo. We hve gotten nowhere because scum can now play with my results. At least either I am great at choosing my targets or scum are scared of me confirming townies so much they aren't killing which is a good thing for us.

hmmmm....

Given your target, I think a roleblocker might be in play here.

Why do you think scum wouldn't kill you, Espy?

[Antihero]

I really doubt scum would leave a practically confirmed doc hang around, so theres a few viable options.

1) Scum failed to send an NK
2) The scum doing the kill got roleblocked
3) Espy got JKed

Doubting #3 since there's probably not a doc+jailkeeper combo (though not impossible). I'm also doubting #1 (especially after a scum lynch). That leaves #2.

I'm thinking it might be beneficial for a town RB to claim his target. What does everyone else think of this?

[Antihero]

Espy, reread your role PM. Is there anything to suggest you're a paranoid doc (aka jailkeeper)?

[Antihero]

Vote: Shepherd of Wolves

I think the whole way he approached the Jimfinn lynch looks like scum trying not to go after his buddy too hard, then realising Jim wasn't going to post and deciding to go all out with the bussing, while still trying to get Narsis lynched. Jim's comment to Narsis about that vote makes me think Narsis is town, so SoW's vote there doesn't help any.

So....
you're going with WIFOM that scum planted.

FoS: Locke

[Antihero]

Narsis, I was about to not get lynched. What are you doing?

Maybe jim said that to make us think Narsis was his buddy.
Maybe he knew we would think that and decide Narsis was innocent.
Maybe he knew we would think

that

, so Narsis is scum
Maybe he knew we would think

that

, so Narsis is clear.....

This is WIFOM. I'm not sure what Narsis is questioning here.

[Antihero]

Dr. Foster? Doc?
The mechanic makes sense. I think espy = truth teller. Now, can you tell us what post you quoted when you sent in the action (check with the mod before doing this).

I can't see this Lightman-Wallowski thing ending well[/sidenote]

[Antihero]

Look at his iso. It isn't hard to work out what I picked.

Going into Night 2, zorblag let you pick something from Day 1?

[Antihero]

@SOW: No there is nothing in my role pm to suggest that.

What are you referring too? I read all my posts for Day 3, and do not see what you are talking about.

I think espy meant me. I asked him if anything in his role PM suggested he was a JK.

[Antihero]

VOTE: jimfinn for reasons listed below

I wouldn't say anything so far is truly all that scummy (since it's still pretty much RVS/RQS), but I'm going to RVS VOTE: Tasky

This is the 5th vote on the Tasky wagon, and it's already page 4; yet, jim calls this vote an "RVS" vote. Scumfail

He doesn't seem like he's paying attention here. Normally this could be dismissed as a quick random vote without any context, but if we go on...

There are several Tasky votes, yes. What scumtells there are are minor at best, nothing too serious IMO. Wagon reactions are more likely to create scumtells that I pick up on than RQS answers and related discussion.
---
That is to say, disagreements over the meanings of terms such as rolefishing and the odd capitalization of TOWN do not seem (at least to me) to be anything significant, and no serious reason for voting is brought to my attention, though I am very curious to see how the wagon plays out. Wagon players up and down and see how they react - that's how you catch scum.

This makes it very clear he knew

exactly

what was going on, and he voted Tasky anyway. That's a pretty blatant scum tell.

Here's the bus part of this post.

The argument between SoW and

Trinidad and Tobago

Tasky and Tazaro makes me think that at least one of the three is scum, but I'm waiting for more exchange of rhetoric before I feel confident as to which of them.

Please tell me that everyone sees the fencesit in this post.

I do see it, but I don't think it's as strong or scummy as you make it out to be. You've already shown us why jimfinn is scum. Now you're just reaching.

And here's the chainsaw defense.

Antihero's basically been making weak cases and expecting votes for the entirety of the game. He hasn't done that much scum hunting, and his contributions are quite hard to fine without an ISO.

More chainsaw defense on day 1, when I was hardcore tunneling on jimfinn.

And while we're at it, here's all you had to say about him then:

jimfinn's been lurking up a storm.

Then, all the sudden you jump on his wagon the next day. What changed?

[Antihero]

What the f*&$ is wrong with you people? SoW was obvtown from day 1! And SoW, tasky was obvtown from Day 1.

STUPID WAGONS MAKE ME RAGE!!!!

Narsis is probscum. Tasky, if you got an innocent on him, I would be willing to bet he's a godfather (we've already seen the perfect lying survivor).

[Antihero]

CLAIM

God dammit.

UNVOTE: SoW

yes, you are the next on my scumlist.

VOTE: ZeroFang

PS: should I hypothetically die tonight and flip cop, you should know that I have a guilty on ZeroFang.
PPS: SoW, sorry for making you claim.

why the hypothetical claim? and let's say you do have a guilty on ZeroFang...what would your other hypothetical reads be?

^this=scumfail

[Antihero]

PS: should I hypothetically die tonight and flip cop, you should know that I have a guilty on ZeroFang.

That's impossible unless I'm miller, which I really doubt. I'd also like to point out to you that we have a doctor who detects lies and a vig who detects lies. You cop claim is inconsistent with the flavor, the alignment, and the balance of power between alignments. Gentlemen, we have found a scum.

VOTE: Tasky

Yeah, I'm sure your power role was supposed to balance that out, Zerofang.

[Antihero]

Millar isn't exactly a PR, and I really don't think I am.

You talked about balance but neglected to mention that scum probably have PRs to screw with that. I suspect you have one, given jim flipped goon.

Why would Tasky fakeclaim unprovoked in this situation, Zero?

[Antihero]

I don't think scum would have pulled a stunt like Tasky's. I don't believe Narsis.

UNVOTE: UNVOTE:
VOTE: Narsis

[Antihero]

ok. Narsis' reaction was exactly as I expected, I am now quite sure he is town.
I am actually Ria Torres

well. that leaves Antihero, ZeroFang and Locke.

Antihero is the worst there.
so:
UNVOTE: VOTE: Antihero

Why am I the worst?

You going to jerk us around some more?

UNVOTE:

[Antihero]

also, Locke, please post "I am aligned with the town." isolated in a new post with nothing else in it (and without the quotes of course).

ummmm... tasky, you need to go back to Days 1 and 2 and tell everyone how I'm scum. I curious to see this.

Preview edit: Who said Zerofang was clear? And I'm also waiting for the latest lie to come out of you.

[Antihero]

Oh wait a second, you didn't say Zero was clear, SoW did.

VOTE: Zerofang

[Antihero]

Yay for triple posting!

if you truly were town, you would know that both of them are scum and vote one of them right away. What's holding you back?

You're assuming I think you're clear. And that's not true.

[Antihero]

@696: Not being clear =/= scum
@697: I wanted to make sure you saw it, and don't try to weasle your way out of this.

Thinking about it, why is Narsis clear, even if he is telling the truth about being Eli?

[Antihero]

Job applications contain an average of 4 lies each.

That sounds too low.

Well, with a few hours to deadline, this seems like the only option.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Locke Lamora

[Antihero]

^You need to start paying attention, please.

[Antihero]

I really doubt scum would've sent in a no kill Night 2 as they a) didn't know who espy was going to target and b) were coming off a scum lynch. I changed my mind about Zerofang.

hmm. interesting. my bet is on one of your targets being some sort of perfect lier, or there being only 2 scum in this game. cause i know i'm not scum, and everyone except for me and Antihero are "confirmed" via night actions.

Who confirmed Tasky?

[Antihero]

Antihero has absolutely nothing speaking for him.

Nothing? Not even getting people to pull their heads out of their asses and lynch scum?

You need to go back and read more, please.

[Antihero]

Ria Torres...tracker.... ? That doesn't fit with the flavor, but I believe it.

Eli Loker doesn't have to be town in this game (just a reminder that flavor meta sucks).

Also, I disagree with everyone else that there's 2 scum left. Since we've already had a survivor and a fairly weak town (according to claims only 3 power roles; SoW's is "macho" and Tasky's is only a 1-shot tracker), I think we're dealing with one scum.

Town: Nacho, SoW, Tasky
Unknown: Antihero, Narsis, Zerofang

I'm putting Nacho in the town category because he was saved Night 1. There's no reason scum would've done a no kill; they didn't konw about Espeonage's role at that point.

Zerofang is still very, very slightly possibly scum since I'm betting the other scum is roleblocker or perfect liar (maybe scum just simply missed sending in a kill night 2; we did go through a change of mods...; this isn't likely though).

I say we lynch one of me or Narsis today and the other tomorrow. I'm betting Narsis is scum (but I'm a bit biased :p).

VOTE: Narsis

[Antihero]

^ *shrug* fine with me

But FTR, I'm not as confident in my reads as my posts might suggest, and that's not a scumtell.

[Antihero]

My avatar is a self-portrait.

[Antihero]

^That was my lie. I thought it was more entertaining than "I am Ben Reynolds."

Claim: I'm Dave Burns, VT.

[Antihero]

However, I am highly convinced of my lie requirement. The bad must have some requirement to lie so as to be discovered.

How would that work? I doubt this.

And it's another thing that supports my 2 member scumteam theory.

[Antihero]

Well, I'll save everyone the suspense. I'm town.

Now for my last post.

Okay, sorry.

So, I was just thinking, if you are absolutely convinced of a GF Mafia, I think you all should lynch Zero tomorrow. Only if you are convinced of that. He did not play at all today, to avoid having to deal with anything. Just a thought. You all will have to decide. But, I think there is a good chance he is actually the GF especially if Anti flips TOWN.

Either ZERO, or NACHO are the GF for MAFIA

. That is my recommendation. Because if Anti flips town, then Narsis will be tested and confirmed or dead by me.

OK, since your kill can be screwed with (think roleblocker) this is seriously flawed. Also, NACHO IS CLEARED! There's no reason scum would've no killed on Night 1. Nacho needs to come out of your pool of suspects. Now.

SoW, you should kill Nacho with a lie. so if he doesn't die we know he has to be scum.


also, I do not believe that Espeonage's "clears" are reliable.

...
...
...
and Tasky needs to re-enter that pool of suspects.
Espy's "clears" are certainly more reliable than SoW's. And if anyone needs to be killed with a lie, it's Narsis (notice how he refused to post one).

[Antihero]

@Town on my wagon: Why were you on it? Seriously, I caught jimfinn and was onto Zero.

In all fairness, though, I would have never guessed nacho was scum.

[Antihero]

As for the set-up, I think town's power was too concentrated in the vig (yeah, I'm a little sour about it). If I reviewed this set-up, I would have told Stef to:

1) Ditch the survivor (that's the worst role...ever).
2) Make Ben Reynolds into a regular vig (the role doesn't fit with the flavor anyway).
3) Turned Ria Torres into a regular tracker.
4) Given the mafia a ninja (immune to tracker).
5) Make Cal Lightman a Lie Detector.
6) Make Foster a JK.

[Antihero]

Wow, you kept up with this game even throught the WoTs?

I need to /in for a game with you sometime.

[Antihero]

Walls of text.