Mini 1044: Lie to Me Mafia - Game Over

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Narsis on jimfinn

:
First off, he attacks his vote as scummy. Repeatedly explaining it was a comparison, distancing himself from attacking him too much. But, still he had called it opportunistic scum

i think perhaps jim's vote looks more like opportunistic scum then the others.

But, next he defends him. And, focusses on connecting himself by another game. The sentiment is WE were town together their, WE are together here too.

1. i've played with jim before, although it's an ongoing game, so let's just say i dont suspect him as much for that.
2. not falling for what about my question?
3. i agree that tunneling that hard isn't the most protown thing, but it does have it's place in protown play. would you rather he didnt push Taz at all and there was a no lynch?

First off, what sparked this post? I could not find the questions that you appear to be answering. Or, are you just making independent comments?

Later he says

all i'm saying is we both acted in similar ways this game as in that ongoing game and in that game we both got suspicion for it and both flipped town

Narsis wanted in on the lynch, when it was inevitable. Why did Narsis not hammer? He says he wanted jim to claim. Jim claims, gets a counter, and then he jumps on. But, he was not eager to be the hammer.

[Narsis]

Narsis on jimfinn

:
First off, he attacks his vote as scummy. Repeatedly explaining it was a comparison, distancing himself from attacking him too much. But, still he had called it opportunistic scum

i think perhaps jim's vote looks more like opportunistic scum then the others.

But, next he defends him. And, focusses on connecting himself by another game. The sentiment is WE were town together their, WE are together here too.

1. i've played with jim before, although it's an ongoing game, so let's just say i dont suspect him as much for that.
2. not falling for what about my question?
3. i agree that tunneling that hard isn't the most protown thing, but it does have it's place in protown play. would you rather he didnt push Taz at all and there was a no lynch?

First off, what sparked this post? I could not find the questions that you appear to be answering. Or, are you just making independent comments?

Later he says

all i'm saying is we both acted in similar ways this game as in that ongoing game and in that game we both got suspicion for it and both flipped town

Narsis wanted in on the lynch, when it was inevitable. Why did Narsis not hammer? He says he wanted jim to claim. Jim claims, gets a counter, and then he jumps on. But, he was not eager to be the hammer.

would you rather i hammered without getting a claim? i was quite willing to hammer him after the claim.

[Narsis]

EBWOP: clarification: i was willing to hammer before the claim, but wanted to wait until i saw the claim.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Thanks Freud.

I would rather he did not fake claim, and out our DOC. But, in any case, you never ever ever had a reason to vote him, until it was inevitable. And, you hoped on just because it was not the hammer. Every analysis you made of him, he is in the town category because he played like this with you. Always town, expect the first opportunistic scum.

So, I really think you joined the lynch to APPEAR to be against him. But, you never had a reason, even when you said you are going to hammer.

well yeah i'm not going to until he claims.

Notice, no reason for lynching him. Wait, the only reason was his claim. We did not need him to claim. Really, we knew he was scum. But, maybe that was his way to lead you on, give you a counter claimer. Many reasons you could have worked that plan together. Maybe, you did not plan it, but you saw the benefit of his claim to out PR.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Locke Lamora, you need to claim your alignment. You can not just base it on your replacement. You cannot avoid this.

[Espeonage]

oh, I almost forgot.
Esp, since you already claimed your role-power, would there be any problem telling us some things?
1. your role-name...
2.

Lie Detecter is obviously a mechanic of the game. From my role I think I can assume that everyone who has a role in the lightman group will have this mechanic tied to their role in some way or another.

what do you mean with this.

I dislike multiquoting so I will do that in stages. Also I have to go so I will answer other posts later.

I am Dr. Foster, the chick with the short who is on Lightmans team.
My role only works if the person I protect is telling the truth in a post I quote to the mod when I send in my action. I was told this was because I am a lie detector on the show. I then assumed that all the other members of the lightman group would also have this condition.


@SOW: No there is nothing in my role pm to suggest that.

[Zorblag]

People are 44% more likely to lie when using email than when writing by hand.

Second VoteCount of D3

ZeroFang (1) - Antihero
Narsis (1) - Shepard_of_Wolves
Shepard_of_Wolves (2) - Tasky, Locke Lamora

Not voting: Espeonage, Nachomamma8, Narsis, ZeroFang

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline will be 4:00 PM EDT/1:00 PM PDT on Monday, October 25th.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Antihero]

Dr. Foster? Doc?
The mechanic makes sense. I think espy = truth teller. Now, can you tell us what post you quoted when you sent in the action (check with the mod before doing this).

I can't see this Lightman-Wallowski thing ending well[/sidenote]

[Espeonage]

Look at his iso. It isn't hard to work out what I picked.

[Antihero]

Look at his iso. It isn't hard to work out what I picked.

Going into Night 2, zorblag let you pick something from Day 1?

[Espeonage]

I can pick any post they have posted in the game.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

@SOW: No there is nothing in my role pm to suggest that.

What are you referring too? I read all my posts for Day 3, and do not see what you are talking about.

[Antihero]

@SOW: No there is nothing in my role pm to suggest that.

What are you referring too? I read all my posts for Day 3, and do not see what you are talking about.

I think espy meant me. I asked him if anything in his role PM suggested he was a JK.

[Narsis]

Thanks Freud.

I would rather he did not fake claim, and out our DOC. But, in any case, you never ever ever had a reason to vote him, until it was inevitable. And, you hoped on just because it was not the hammer. Every analysis you made of him, he is in the town category because he played like this with you. Always town, expect the first opportunistic scum.

this is another lovely case of damned if i do, damned if i dont. had i hammered, you would have been all over me for hammering before a claim. and since he counterclaimed, you are all over me for not hammering him. what would you have done in my situation as town? what is the most townie play to do when you have someone you arent sure is scum or town at L-1?

So, I really think you joined the lynch to APPEAR to be against him. But, you never had a reason, even when you said you are going to hammer.

well yeah i'm not going to until he claims.

Notice, no reason for lynching him. Wait, the only reason was his claim. We did not need him to claim. Really, we

knew

he was scum.

only scum could know who scum is.

But, maybe that was his way to lead you on, give you a counter claimer. Many reasons you could have worked that plan together. Maybe, you did not plan it, but you saw the benefit of his claim to out PR.

and putting words into my mouth too. perhaps you could base your case on things i've done, not this WIFOM of what you think i did.

[Espeonage]

@SOW: No there is nothing in my role pm to suggest that.

What are you referring too? I read all my posts for Day 3, and do not see what you are talking about.

Sorry, I was rushing to get out the door. That is supposed to be Anti.

[Locke Lamora]

LOCKE

You gave no indication yesterday that you had any inclination that Narsis was town.

SoW: your post at the top of this page in particular is the one that pings my scumdar. Jim's suddenly becoming one of your suspects - convenient, considering that Antihero, ZeroFang and myself all now want a Jimfinn lynch - but hey, Tasky still fits in with Jim as scum, so it's ok! As you like connections, I think I can see one there between you and Jimfinn.

Throw in Narsis for good measure and I think we have three likely scum.

Why did you throw Narsis in for good measure at this point? I am bothered that you use jimfinn as your trusted source on Narsis.

His lash out changed your mind.

I have bolded for emphasis. Here you have correctly identified my reason for thinking that Narsis is town. I think Jim made a deliberately lame attempt that hinted he was buddies with Narsis to get us to focus on Narsis when Jim was lynched. I don't think he'd actually have drawn attention to Narsis' slot if they were scumbuddies.

By claim my alignment, do you mean saying I'm town? Something like this?:

I am aligned with the town.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

MOD, looks like ZeroFang needs the PROD.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Looks like Nachomamma needs it too.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Speculations I have about 2 nights with no kills.

Scenario 1

First night mafia targets Nacho for claiming day Vig. Espeonage successfully protects. He can only successfully protect the honest. Therefore, Nacho is honest in his town alignment claim.

Second night mafia targets ZeroFang, no apparent reason. Espeonage successfully protects again. Thus confirming his alignment too.

Scenario 2

Night 1 same story as

Scenario 1

Night 2 Mafia want to play with the results of Espeonage, they choose a NO TARGET. ZeroFang is really not confirmed as town, because they tamper with the restriction on Esp.

Scenario 3

Night 1 and 2 are both NO TARGETS. Possible protection against lie detection. Essentially, the idea is, they may have an ability that if they do not kill, they cannot be lie detected. An immunity for sacrificing their Night Kill.

I can see this possibility. But, I think it could be a standing option for every night. Or, maybe an option for a single night. Leading to Scenario 4. If it is a standing option, that would suck for town lie detection. But, give the advantage of NO Night Kills.

Scenario 4

Night 1 same as

Scenario 1

Night 2 using a single immunity protection for the sacrifice of a night kill.

Scenario 5

Town Role blocker. Role blocker successfully prevents Night Kill. This could work for Night 1 and Night 2. This would mean that Nacho would not be 100% cleared by Espeonage.

_______

With 2 MOD kills, we have effectively had 2 NIGHT KILLS, with the loss of information. So, we are just disadvantaged as town. And, with the MOD announcing that would happen during the NIGHT 2 PHASE, the mafia may have decided to NO TARGET just to mess with ESP. They knew they had the advantage with the 2 MOD KILLS.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Narsis, we knew jimfinn was scum, because there was overwhelming evidence. Using that term refers to the evidence in game that convicted him.

If you did not wait for a claim, I would have been more likely to believe you were town. It seems counter logical, but that is the truth. And, it is the truth because he popped up scum. If he flipped town, and you hammered, than I would think different. But, in this case, I really think his scum flip puts your actions in a scum light. Waiting for a claim, and producing no other reason to vote him, reeks of scum to me.

But, my ISO of you also holds as evidence against you.

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

Locke, who is your second suspect other than me? And, why?

[Tasky]

why do you think there is such thing as a NK for lie detection immunity trade for scum?

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

AntiHero, can you please lay out your case on ZeroFang.

What shows his chainsaw attack, and simultaneous defense?

[Shepherd_of_Wolves]

I think there is a possibility for multiple TOWN PR to have the lie detection restriction described by Espeonage. Therefore, the immunity option at the sacrifice of a kill could balance the mafia against multiple PR roles that are restricted by lie detection. It makes sense that mafia would have some form of defense against lie detection. And, if it disabled the MOST PR for town, then it would have to come at a sacrifice to mafia.

[Zorblag]

Mod Note: Prodding Nachomamma8 and ZeroFang.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh