Mini 1042 - Skillville - GAME OVER!

[Reckamonic]

Hellloooooooooo!!!!

<3 <3 <3

[Reckamonic]

Also confirm!

[Reckamonic]

Vote: Untrod Tripod

for playing in the game Reckamonic co-modded!

=D

[Reckamonic]

Those are clearly Scum Kittens.

Vote: Reckamonic

.

But they're cuddling!

[Reckamonic]

Well Volkann is town, so is Zach.

Unlike DemonHybrid.

Unvote: Whoever
Vote: DemonHybrid

[Reckamonic]

Sorry guys! Haven't had a chance to discuss the game with my other half in a little while. Will try to make that happen today!

[Reckamonic]

Esp, somehow I doubt we play like dram or like reck. It's a whole different thing (with added kittens)

I'm getting scummy vibes from Horror.
One more and that makes a whole scumteam, wheeee!

[Reckamonic]

Esp, somehow I doubt we play like dram or like reck. It's a whole different thing (with added kittens)

I'm getting scummy vibes from Horror.
One more and that makes a whole scumteam, wheeee!

Uh, are you trying to find scummy people just for the sake of finding scummy people?

No, however since I'm not mafia I cant just randomly wagon.
Thus I am trying to find scummy people, since they are the likely scum.
Thus I'm voting you.

Seems fairly simple from my PoV :S

[Reckamonic]

You're absolutely terrible at reasoning. I'm not sure if it's mostly dram or Reck, but I know it's at least a disappointment.

Your way of reasoning isn't the optimal way. I play heavily by gut and so does my other head, you'll have to get used to it.
Well, would have to if you were town anyways. Fortunately for you, you're scum so you can just wait a bit more for us to lynch you and then you'll be able to whine all you want in your grave.

WHY is horror scummy?
Why am -I- scummy?
Who else is on your scum team?
What do you think of what went on early in the game with Zach and Soc?
What do you think of Soc and Zach?
What do you think of voll? Is he mostly right?
What do you think of UT's arguments?
Any additional thoughts?

Horror is scummy because of his attacks and responses to Zach. They are terrible, grasping, stretching. Again, and again, and again.
You are scum because your reaction to the early game was awful. No, I'm not going to give you a step by step guide to why you are scum, you wouldn't believe me anyways and I hate making little ISO analysis. Do feel free to accept that you're obvious and selfvote.
Third question belongs to the RQS. It's too late for you, but play serious anyways
Town on town. Zach is obvious, Socrate is fairly town for now. Soc's move was stupid at the very least, but humour oriented. Zach's was cautious. Somehow they're getting flak for it. This town I swear.
Vollkan is always town, even as scum. Except for the fact he thinks Soc is scum. But that's alright, he's entailed to a twisted read, it's hard to always be right.
Untod Tripod hasn't stood out to me, I'll do a reread of him later.
No, I have no additional things to say. Feel free so ask more things though, so I can irritably respond to your attempts at appearing town <3

Stop hiding and start answering.[/quote]

[Reckamonic]

EBWOP: Cut the last line.

[Reckamonic]

UT is town with issues with votes.

Issues you seem to carry against me, but defend from against UT, go figure.

[Reckamonic]

And of course, you don't explain any of that in detail.

Indeed I do not, get used to it, because I dont decorticate people's post in annoying ways that all in all, doesn't gain anything. It's the GENERAL feel that you'll get from me.

ALAS, I'm getting kicked off the computer, but I'll answer the other points when I get back on.

Before I go though, I'll need you to explain to me how someone with 5 posts can be the majority of 2 pages.

[Reckamonic]

Nice, then you're just parroting others, I suppose.

I suppose I'm going to get a "OH MY GOD UR TWISTING MEH ARGUMENTZ AND IM NUT PEROTING" but unless you -actually explain- your actions with reasoning, you just sound like you want to find people scummy just to find people scummy, and that's it.

the point of the game is to find the scum, of course I'm looking for scummy people in order to lynch them. Im not going to spoon feed you why you are scum. If you are curious look at your own ISO, I don't do pbpa except when strongly irritated by an idiotic town. Don't worry, were getting there and you'll get lynched soon enough.
Also, you can't accuse me of parroting and nit giving reasons in the same post, it's contradictory. If you're going to accuse me say something that makes sense.

Not even a valid answer. I guess I'll reword it: Who do you think is 3rd scummiest?

I'd probably say q21. Admittably I'm more inclined to find people scummy individually than as a group, so until one is lynched it's hard to make links.

Which of Soc's moves were stupid? Why is Zach obvious (because I don't see it)?

I hope this isn't a serious question... The l-1 vote is obviously what I'm referring to here. Zach is town because his posts exhume a feel of genuine town incredulity, like literally all of them. Best way to explain

So, because someone talks more, has more experience and is well-known, that makes them auto-town, even if they believe the same thing scum does, because "he's entailed to a twisted read"? And you think that's justified? Really?

don't shove so many words in my mouth at once I'm going to choke. He is town because his posts are well made, clear and to the point. He is town because he is being honest. Town has no motivation to be sneaky and vollkan's posts are super non-sneaky. The fact he has experience or is known is completely irrelevant and the fact you just tried to push this crap on me just makes me more sure of my read.

again, you're bullshitting bout UT. He posted 1 time on page 4 and 3 on page 5. Hardly a meaningful contribution. Also, 60% of his contribution are quote war with you. I usually skip those, they are tedious. As an add-on to that, if you can't make a concise post I WILL skip your next retort ( or dump it in my hydra's lap)


In conclusion, you just laid a vote based on a complete twist of my comment, congrats

[Reckamonic]

It is late, I am sleepy.
MAYBE tomorrow, or whenever other head wakes up and feels like it, because I made it pretty clear that I hate doing pbpa.
How hard would it be for you to check his iso? I know it's bad, but that's the point really.

It's dramonic that you're calling a VI, FYI.


The term you want is "pretty certain he's got scum" btw, DH

Your back and forth with UT was not great, it was actually pretty awful
Stop using the word parroting if you can't use it properly
Your way of posting condemns you, I said that already
You don't need a reason to vote someone who puts peops at l-1 in rvs
If I'm not making a case for my scum reads, what twisted thinking makes you think I'll make one for my town reads?
There is a previous button, use it because that last part Is undecipherable
eDIT: are you familiar with the concept of innocent until proven guilty? Better question is what makes you think he isn't?

Reedit: that's kinda sad

[Reckamonic]

STOP CALLING MY DRAMMIE AN IDIOT!!! D=<

Erhem, in any case...I haven't had a chance to speak with my other half in awhile due to work kicking my ass, so I'll need to get my bearings on the game, but based off of my skim...I can say that even when the two of us are discussing this game/other games on Skype, dram usually refuses to give SPECIFIC evidence for why people are scummy. If I badger him enough, he'll just link me to an isolated post and expect me to figure it out for myself.

While I personally don't like this style, it has its merits.
In any case, I don't want to jump in here without having a full grasp on the situation, so I'll wait until later this evening when we can get back on the same page.

[Reckamonic]

Reck/Dram, can you guys stay consistent, please?

STOP CALLING MY DRAMMIE AN IDIOT!!! D=<

Erhem, in any case...I

haven't had a chance to speak with my other half in awhile due to work kicking my ass

, so I'll need to get my bearings on the game, but based off of my skim...I can say that even when the two of us are discussing this game/other games on Skype, dram usually refuses to give SPECIFIC evidence for why people are scummy. If I badger him enough, he'll just link me to an isolated post and expect me to figure it out for myself.

While I personally don't like this style, it has its merits.
In any case, I don't want to jump in here without having a full grasp on the situation, so

I'll wait until later this evening when we can get back on the same page

.

SHUT. THE FUCK. UP.
I LITERALLY *JUST* GOT DONE EXPLAINING THAT.
MY GOD WHAT A STUPID POST.

[Reckamonic]

THAT'S WHAT I JUST FUCKING SAID.
THAT I WAS GOING TO TALK WITH HIM LATER, BECAUSE I HADN'T BEEN ACTIVE THE PAST FEW DAYS.

And hahahahahahaa, I'm not getting modkilled, nothing I've done is modkill-worthy.
Your modkill-fishing and worthless posting is noted, though.

[Reckamonic]

I'm sure that because I'm not Reck or dramonic, if I did the same thing they did, I would be lynched in a heartbeat. That also has something to do with it.

AtE
had to say it.

[Reckamonic]

Quite frankly, your probabilities are bullshit

[Reckamonic]

You have no idea how painful it was for us to finally sit down and read through all of DH's posts. My god man.

Anyway.
He votes Zach presumably for preventing a quickhammer. Also, how can he yell at us for not providing evidence for our scum reads, when he calls Socrates & Zach scumbuddies with no reasoning as well.

This is bullshit. Not necessarily scummy, just fucking stupid.

Sidenote, this is why Zachrulez is town.

I'd like to say that I have a hunch that one of Socrates and DH is definitely scum. They're not scum together, because their assault on each other at the start of D1 is too genuine for them to be bussing... but one of them is scum.

Back to it... just read this post. Seriously. It's beyond stupid and it's just grasping at straws.

Sidenote, q21's vote on Zachrulez reeks of scum attempting to start an alternate wagon. It just comes in out of the blue and doesn't make sense in context.


Aaaand, we're back with DH passively setting up to jump on Zach's wagon. Feeling a little unsure about your Socrates attack?

PS, once again, DH says his vote without reason was more or less reaction fishing, which is all mildly hilarious given his assault on us. His point about town being more likely to forget where their vote is is just really really really terrible. Also, why the HELL is DH so willing to trust that Scott had some plan with his vote?

ANOTHER SIDENOTE. horrordude calling obvtownZach his strongest scumread is seriously lulzy. And then he proceeds to argue with Zach and volkan here which is also just sad. They're both quite townie, and his points against them seem to be misreppish (see: his points against Zach).

And volkan is town because he's always town. That's about as good of a reason you can get. Untrod Tripod does a good job of dismantling DH's post 100 with his post 102.

ANOTHER ANOTHER SIDENOTE. q21 is definitely scum for that attempted shift of attention. Again.

DH's jump onto us is just bad. He's whining about not giving reasoning for voting, which is COMPLETELY FUCKING HYPOCRITICAL.

Would also like to point out 98% of DH's posts are just ad hom ad hom ad hom ad hom ad hom. Which makes his OMG RECKAMONIC IS GETTING MODKILLED thing just fucking awful. His entire point that we're only not getting lynched because we've been around longer is fucking awful. Do we really need to explain WHY these things are awful? It's pretty self-evident.

Dear God, I'd like to get into Zach vs horror and talk about how awful that is, too. But I'll save that for later.

This false dichotomy where he says we have to be either VT or scum is also bullshit and based in COMPLETE NOTHINGNESS. HOW ABOUT SOME ACTUAL SUPPORT FOR THAT THAT ISN'T JUST HEARSAY?

It's cute how quickly he backs off of us though.

Horror, your buddying is becoming way too blatant now. lololololololol.

q21, your parroting is becoming way too blatant now. lololololololol.

BOTTOM LINE:
DH is scum.
q21 & horrordude are also scum.
G fucking G

[Reckamonic]

You really have no clue as to what Ad Hom means, do you?

[Reckamonic]

Another ridiculous compilation. You just basically parroted others' arguments, man.

I'm curious as to seeing any concrete proof of this from you.

[Reckamonic]

exactly.
Saying "STFU" isn't ad hom
saying "He's fuckin arrogant, therefore he couldnt possibly be a PR" is.

[Reckamonic]

All of your arguments have just copied others; my lack of my reasoning when voting Zach, the VT/scum thing, why I trust Scott so much, etc.

proof?

Preview Edit: So, saying "This is untrue because DH is just being fucking stupid" isn't ad-hom? Which you've done a few times, actually.

This is false, prove me wrong.

[Reckamonic]

Don't have much time right now, but horrordude is clearly OMGUSing us without actually voting yet.
He didn't pay as a damn bit of attention until we called out his scummy ass.

DH TODAY, HORROR TOMORROW, Q21 (PROBABLY) D3. GOOD FUCKING GAME.

[Reckamonic]

Nice try but no. we didn't suspect you as much until your post 265, but it doesn't mean that we're OMGUSing you. In fact, quite the opposite. You're on my suspect list because of the reasons explained in my 274. You did nothing but misrep in your "case" against me, and that's why we found you scummy. It's really not too hard to understand.

we're very confused as to how your responses to our 265 at ALL indicate us suddenly becoming instant scum. Here, let me enlighten you

since you seem to be so thick

(dram says no being mean, so we'll compromise).

I don't get it... Because he said he had a town read on someone? Or because he said that something was a risky way to get reactions? I'm really confused here... please shed some light on the situation.

This is a legitimate plea, which we could have bought until you turned that into actual suspicion. Here, you just ask a question. Somehow, that translates instantly into OH RECKAMONIC IS SCUM. For the record, Zach was obvtown because we agreed with his vote and he took a definitive stance on DemonHybrid. It came off as clearly town that early in the game.

Okay, explain how Zach is obvtown. And speaking of misreps, I wasn't arguing with vollkan... I was answering one of his questions. And again, how was I misrepping him?

Just explained how zach was obvtown. Zach responds to your points later on. we will give you the point on the 'arguing with volkan' thing, we think we got your posts confused or something, because we don't see it now. I'll try and figure out where we were actually looking later.

How is that buddying? Misrep.

Really? How is THAT buddying? Gee, I don't know, maybe it's the blind agreement with Ald and super support of something he said that isn't even really that much of a stance on anything. It feels phony and an attempt to appear pro-town by going 'YEAH! SKIMMING IS BAD, GUYZ!'.

Moving on... Zach is correct about this:

Shotty never makes sense.

He doesn't. And we think lynching him today would be a waste. He's a VI. That's vigbait right there. We'd gain no information from his lynch. It just screams awful, easy bandwagon for scum. Instead, we need to either lynch DH, or someone else needs to present a viable alternate wagon with a good case behind it.

FWIW, we'd also strongly consider a horrordude lynch today.

[Reckamonic]

volkan. We'd PREFER DemonHybrid. Either way, though. One goes today, one goes tomorrow.
If there's a vig out there, kill Shotty plz.

[Reckamonic]

This will require moar thought and analysis of the HD vs Zach argument. More on this later

We don't have a later, deadline is like, now.

Unvote
Vote: Horrordude

[Reckamonic]

ebwop: as in, 20 minutes.

[Reckamonic]

the day ended 2 hours ago guys...
Nothing can change at this point.
Claim horror

[Reckamonic]

Hey guys.
We've been a bit busy with school/work/designing an awesome Ocarina of Time setup/being addicted to IRC.

We'll be back on the ball again soon!

[Reckamonic]

Update... couldn't actually get around to catching up in our games tonight. Fairly busy day today/Tuesday with exams and whatnot, but should be able to get up to snuff Tuesday evening.

[Reckamonic]

Wow, not that bad of a re-read at all. Our thoughts are pretty short and sweet: Maemuki seemingly giving up is admittedly scummy, but DH passively pushing for a quicklynch (468) instead of waiting for a replacement doesn't sit well with us.

On an unrelated note, SB's vote on DMSIS (459) is also pinging our scumdar a bit. First off, SB admits that this is how DMSIS

usually

plays, so why does his usual play make him any more likely to be mafia? Secondly, DMSIS is ripe for an investigation/vig kill/track/whatever to confirm him. Otherwise, he's just an easy mislynch for scum, which is partially why SB's post seems so opportunistic.

[Reckamonic]

Have you forgotten what happened in Vanillaside, Reck? RedCoyote totally turned the Korts suspicion around. (I'm assuming I -am- talking to Reckoner)

You're talking to both of us. And no, Vanillaside is still fresh on our mind, but the fact of the matter is that Korts actually posted CONTENT in order to be suspected in that game, whereas we very very little to go off of for Maemuki. All we have are a few random reads, a vote on us, then an unvote on us with seeming disinterest in the game. On Maemuki's post 282... it is pretty bad. The fact that she accuses horrordude of suspecting Zach but voting Espeonage... then does the exact same thing by suspecting horrordude but voting Reckamonic makes her look really bad.

Especially

in the context of horrordude's flip.

Regardless, there still shouldn't be a push for a quicklynch on her. We need to let her get replaced, even if it's just for someone to claim for her before the lynch. It's

still scummy to push a quicklynch when the player is inactive, regardless of how scummy you think they are

.

[Reckamonic]

I like your reads. A lot. Especially about the connection between Espy and HD.

If on the VERY OFF chance that one of SB/Mae isn't scum, then shotty should die. It's almost unnatural if you don't have at least one mafia on your read-list if you are mafia yourself.

DMSIS needs to eat bullets tonight, regardless, if there's a vig out there. He's a complete hazard to town if he's left alive since all he'd do is continue to be a mislynch target.

Actually, on second thought, if SB flips scum, we think DMSIS is likely town.

[Reckamonic]

Catching up tonight. Promise.

[Reckamonic]

NVM. We lied.
Tomorrow.

[Reckamonic]

The early mason claim seems dubious and out of place, but we're not willing to take a risk lynching claimed masons like that. If they're actually masons, then mafia are gonna want to get rid of them quickly. We'll see a flip sooner or later to confirm this. It pains us to let Scott go like that, but alas.

Really really really disliking DH's quick dismissal of the mason claims though.

Disliking the DMSIS bandwagon even more. You guys (see: Scott & Zach) are seriously going to jump on a WELL-KNOWN VILLAGE IDIOT for mixing up how many games he has played with someone? Really, it may be wrong/a mistake, but how does that make him scum? Then, DemonHybrid joins the wagon after it's already rolling full steam ahead. Then... WHAT THE BALLS, ALDY, YOU TOO!?

This wagon is bad bad bad bad bad. We would much rather see DemonHybrid's neck in some rope today. This DMSIS wagon just screams "Deadline lynch, deadline lynch, deadline lynch, deadline lynch!" and the wagon is being pushed on flimsy logic and, pardon our French,

bullshit

cases.

DMSIS is solely being pushed because he's playing like an imbecile. Newsflash, this is how he plays, and nothing he's done is outstandingly scummy. Just idiotic.

Anyone who's unsure or thinking of it as a policy lynch should look at 494, as it shows a clearly scummy action on Shotty's part and that action has a clear scum motivation. This isn't a policy lynch or a lynch to eliminate a VI from the game, this is a lynch on a player who has acted legitimately scummy.

Maybe we just have differing views on things, but that reads COMPLETELY like a stupid, retarded mistake due from lack of giving a fuck or lack of serious play rather than a calculated scum ploy to obscure his meta.

On a non-DMSIS related note, Untrod Tripod's post about us and Socrates strike us as... odd. He brings up the fact that the two (or is it three?) of us have had our votes on DH for a lot of the game... then goes "Eh. Maybe it means nothing. JUST POINTING IT OUT." If you have nothing to say as far as scumtell or towntell or ANYTHING regarding your reads, why just bring it up OUT OF NOWHERE and then not mention it? This is scummy. You're pointing things out, then just hoping someone else will take the bait and run with it. Explain what you find particularly scummy about our vote on DemonHybrid AND Socrates' vote on DemonHybrid. Now.

[Reckamonic]

We'll try to catch up tomorrow - we have a short window of time when we'll both be free, then we're both busy from Friday night till AT LEAST Sunday afternoon, so we'll figure it out.

[Reckamonic]

Zach

, your post 550 suggests that Untrod Tripod is at least slightly scummy to you, yet you also insinuate you have a null read on him. Clarify?

DemonHybrid

... you're suddenly calling Zach the most town person. Early in the game, you found Zach to be one of the scummiest, then here you unvote him and vote us. You say here that you're still iffy on his demeanor. You then say that zach is kinda clear because horrordude tried to lynch him...and yet, you completely disregard the fact that Godfather is a powerful scum role. Why wouldn't the Godfather bus his scumbuddy if it means saving his own ass? PS, in that same post, you call Alduskkel the "most townish" of the bunch. So, aside from the flawed logic that a Godfather wouldn't bus their own scumbuddy (lol), why is Zach so obvtown? If we recall correctly, you were all on our asses earlier in the game for calling Zach obvtown, and now you're doing the same thing yourself. There's a dissonance there that only further strengthens our scumread on you.

Also, I don't get why you have a problem with volkan - you're implying that his scumpoints system is somehow scummy in and of itself, which is not only unprovable, but is false. A system of scumhunting can't make one scummy if it's what they use all the time. Zach hit the nail on the head when he said the points system is a null tell. Not to mention, you trying to bully volkan onto the DMSIS wagon is downright awful. HELLO SCUM! BEAUTIFUL DAY, ISN'T IT?

Untrod Tripod

's wagon hop onto DMSIS is absolutely terrible. It's like he was pussyfooting around the wagon and looking for a perfectly town-shaped opportunity to leap onto the wagon, but it never came, so he just came up with some half-assed reasoning and climbed aboard the SHOTTYTRAIN. His case (which lol came five pages later) is also bad. The first point is false - he's not HIDING behind the VI label, he's just plain dumb. Second point has validity - but it's policy. That does not a scumbag make. Your entire case basically sounds like "I don't necessarily believe you're scummy, you're just a bad player and I don't want you in endgame". That's not scummy. IT'S. NOT. SCUMMY. This is the first semblance of a "case" that's been posted on DMSIS, and it's just plain bad.

This DMSIS wagon is still horrible. He's town. He's not even TRYING to make sense, he's just being

stupid

. That is not a scumtell. AT ALL. Our firm belief he is town makes DemonHybrid

even scummier

and if we had to guess right now, we'd say Untrod Tripod would be his scum buddy. Yes, DMSIS's play hinders town, but we need to be lynching SCUM, not BAD TOWNIES. Best way to deal with DMSIS is to hope for a vig and let him eat bullets overnight. Today, we need to lynch DemonHybrid.

Vote: DemonHybrid

Only 24 hours to deadline. I urge you all to join us in lynching scum.

For anyone who wants to know:

TOWN

Maemuki (still needs replacing, btw)
Scott Brosius
Zachrulez
volkan
drmyshottyizsik
Alduskkel
Socrates
Untrod Tripod
DemonHybrid

SCUM

@MOD: Replace Maemuki, please. Also, please don't steal my spring?

^ The nerdy Touhou reference was clearly dram and not Reck, by the way, because one of us is a huge dork and the other is totally cool and not dorky at all =P

[Reckamonic]

Wow. Just... wow.
FIRST OFF, nothing DMSIS did was modkillable. DH broke the rules WAY more times than DMSIS, and the fact that he wasn't modkilled instead of DMSIS is pretty ridiculous.
SECOND OFF, we're gonna go ahead and do our "told you so" dance.

Our vote is staying where it is: on scum.

[Reckamonic]

We don't think DMSIS was strictly breaking Rule #1, but that's a moot point now, anyway.

We do need a

vote count

, though.

[Reckamonic]

Also,

Unvote, Vote: Reckamonic

Again, with no town motivation for wanting a modkill AND "we told you so, Shotty was totally town!".

Don't be a fucking hypocrite, especially after you whined about me "wanting" your modkill when that wasn't the fucking case.

Convenient that your sudden town read on us completely disappears after your mislynch target gets modkilled.
We never said we wanted a modkill (in fact, it's potentially lazy modding to just not get a replacement, yeah it sucks, but that's what you take on when you mod), what we said was that we don't understand how SHOTTY broke more rules than YOU if one of you HAD to be modkilled.

[Reckamonic]

Uh, yeah, that's EXACTLY WHAT WE JUST SAID. You got your mislynch in the form of a modkill, and you're moving on to your next mislynch target - us. Last read you had on us was frustrated townie. Your switching back and forth on us is too convenient to be honest.

Shotty didn't break a rule IMO, but that's irrelevant. The day should've ended, also, but too late for that now.

Can I just point out how absurd it is that Socrates and us are the prime suspects for NOT TRYING TO LYNCH A VI, instead of the people who were vehemently pushing for an easy mislynch?

[Reckamonic]

Will try to get up a brief response before the hydra goes

V/LA from now through Monday

.
Also, as a warning, the hydra will be spending a fun-filled weekend in Montreal together

10/14-10/19

so expect low activity then, too.

[Reckamonic]

This has been said before, but everyone here realizes DemonHybrid's read on us is based on the fact that

the village idiot we were defending flipped town

, right?
Also, don't like being compared to heroin abuse.

vollkan continues to be incredibly obvtown.

For the record - it wasn't that DMSIS was being an idiot that made us call him town. It's the fact that he was acting like a complete imbecile

with no real attempt to hide it

that made us believe he is town. Scum-VIs wouldn't go in so "caution to the wind"-esque. Town-VIs, however, don't give a fuck...hence the name

village

idiot.
That being said, we didn't have a strong pro-town read on him. We felt his actions were idiotic, yes, but they

did not make him scum

.

DH's telling vollkan "stop tunnelling" when he's not actually tunnelling is just ridiculous and is a scum defensive maneuver.

Reck said nothing about motivations until after his lynch. He said "He's a VI. So he's town. End of story." Context is ALL about alignment motivations in this case, not whether or not Shotty was a VI (cause...derp, that's evident). Open your eyes.

Bullshit. Most of our defenses were from the standpoint of...he's an idiot, not town. We're so tired of having to say this or have others point it out that you can expect us to NOT RESPOND to any further inquiries on this subject, because it's starting to become a bit like a broken fucking record.

Sidenote: I could see a DH/Socrates scumteam, with DH trying to push a lynch on us while his scumbuddy gets replaced, only to explain it away tomorrow as "Oh, well the replacement wasn't here yet...but since he is now..." and not have to accuse his scumbuddy of passively staying off of a townie's wagon for brownie points. (Sidenote: that is where the distinction lies - Socrates was passively staying off the wagon, whereas we were putting our fucking throats on the line to stop the DMSIS lynch.)

How DH doesn't have a big wagon is completely unbeknownst to us:
- He wanted to lynch claimed masons
- He actively pursued an easy lynch on a VI
- Instead of attacking the wagon-pushers, he attacked the people who

tried to stop the wagon

If someone could point out any pro-town motivation in any of the above, we'd love to hear it.

[Reckamonic]

OOOH HE USED THE F-WORD
MAD SCUM IS MAD

Also, your final sentence there is acting like we have been post-whoring the whole game, then suddenly stopped.
We only have like 2 pages of posts in iso. We've been posting very sporadically as it's hard to find times for both of us to be online.
If that's your abridged case, it's awful.

[Reckamonic]

Now you can keep wasting your time trying to hang onto a terrible case, or you can accept that you completely ditched the game after your "shotty is town" post. And yes, you 100% implied that shotty was town, because if he's "not scummy", then what the fuck is he?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
1) See above. We haven't been posting much the whole game.
2) "Not scummy" =/= "completely town". Ever heard of something called 'null'? Or 'neutral'? I hear Google has a handy-dandy feature where you can look up the definition of words, if you're confused.

[Reckamonic]

OH HEY
GUESS WHAT.

We are a

fucking hydra account

, so we

don't fucking post

unless we're both around to

fucking agree on shit

.
Goddamn right we had time to post elsewhere. You don't understand how hydras work, do you? Oh hey, we used the word 'fuck', clearly we're calling ourselves scum too!

Dear fucking Christ.

You like noting things, don't you? Congratulations, because all of what you noted is

fucking

terrible.

Also, at your 808...I'm sorry you have trouble reading things without the CTRL+F feature, but if you read the

CONTEXT

and

CONTENT

of the post, you can see what we were saying. Sorry you need things spelled out for you, I didn't realize we were playing Mafia Jr.

[Reckamonic]

Goodnight.
We both have class tomorrow at 8AM, and won't be able to get another post up until Wednesday, probably.

[Reckamonic]

We would put good money on the final scums being somewhere within DH, UT, and Socrates.

Masons clear SB & Maemuki.
We have town reads on vollkan, Zach, and to a lesser extent Alduskkel.
PoE means the final two scum have to be within DH/UT/Socrates.

Huzzah.

[Reckamonic]

We would put good money on the final scums being somewhere within DH, UT, and Socrates.

How interesting. Your top suspects are... the guy you've been yelling at all game, the guy who said you were likely scum, and the guy I said was likely scum if you weren't.

Masons clear SB & Maemuki.
We have town reads on vollkan, Zach, and to a lesser extent Alduskkel.
PoE means the final two scum have to be within DH/UT/Socrates.

No it doesn't. Admittedly it would be a ballsy and stupid move for scum to claim masons, but we're just taking their word for it atm.
I can agree on vollkan
yeah, unless the final two scum are between you/DH/Soc/Zach/Al. that's assuming this was a 3 member scum team. could just be a 2 member deal.

This post is very bad.

First part: all of that is IIoA, none of that attempts to actually draw any reads or make any connections. It's just a half-assed attempt to paint us in a scummy light.

Second part: obviously our whole post is speaking

from our point of view

, so the last statement you made was just stupid and irrelevant. Also, you should probably explain why the hell there would be a two-man scumteam in a 12-person setup...unless you know there's a serial killer or something.

Yup. If the DH lynch won't happen, UT is a nice second option.

[Reckamonic]

First off, it's worth nothing the game that Alduskkel linked to for meta was only a Reck- part of the hydra meta, and our play is much different as a team than it is solo. Also, we don't recall a single time Nikanor has replaced into a game with Reckoner and NOT immediately gone after him, so we are unsure what to do right now…all we know is that he's voting scum, and we like it.

DH claims vanilla…after some grand threat the page before to claim. HOW ANTI-CLIMACTIC. He also gave up on his case on us because he knew he couldn't push that bullshit anymore, then jumps onto hitogoroshi (anyone wanna post an actual case?). The fact that DH is the main one championing a hitogoroshi wagon also does nothing to settle our reservations.

Zach, arguing with hitogoroshi over his decision to iso DH before everyone else is just a waste of time. That does not make him scummy for iso'ing DH first, at all.

@vollkan: I don't get why we got +3, exactly, and why our scumminess correlates to zach's townieness. Can you elaborate a bit more?

To be honest, that was a very big re-read, and it's kinda hard for us to parse everything out. Alduskkel trying to start another wagon

on deadline day

is a little fucking ridiculous, though.

We'll be here for the next 2.5 hours to respond to people, then we'll be gone for about an hour and a half or two hours, and then we'll be here the rest of the night.

[Reckamonic]

Meh, guess that makes sense. Point 1 is debatable, but that's a detail, because we're lynching scum today in DH. Someone needs to hammer before we no lynch and then we will raaaaaaaaage.

[Reckamonic]

Ah, forgot this was plurality rule.
Carry on, then.

[Reckamonic]

We'll get our post up later this evening.

[Reckamonic]

I'm sorry we haven't posted, Reck has been quite sick (I suspect mononucleosis).
We'll post once he's not quite as fried.
Or I'll post alone before getting prodded

Whichever happens first

[Reckamonic]

Sorry for the delay guys. Half of the hydra has been bedridden for two days and hasn't got off his ass to do anything about it, much to the other half's chagrin. >>

We're not going to apologize for tunneling so hard on DH. We still hold that he was incredibly scummy, and he completely asked for that lynch. Nikanor's immediate reversal on us raises our four eyebrows and makes us doubt the mason claim a bit. With a dead cop, it's very easy to claim mason.

Definitely want to see more from Nikanor, Nobody Special, and Hito today.

We agree, but could you not add a little content to this post? Where do your scumreads lie?

Nobody Special playing lazy like he is further worries us. He's playing like he's confirmed town and doesn't have a care in the world, when in fact, he's in no way, shape, or form confirmed. We're starting to consider the validity of lynching the claimed masons today, because if we don't lynch them today and they actually ARE lying, that puts us in an impossible scenario tomorrow - 2 claimed masons, with 6 alive? That's WIFOM-city.

@hitogoroshi: You say it's scummy we were pushing for DH's lynch first - of course we were, he was our #1 scumread.

[Reckamonic]

Hi. Reck here.

Go fuck yourself NS. I've been basically dying since Tuesday night. I'm sitting at my second trip to the doctors to figure out what's wrong with me. I don't want to hear your shit right now. Fuck off.

[Reckamonic]

Frankly it doesn't require brain usage to post in random thread that talk of silly stuff, unlike a mafia game.
Reck would be able to post, but his ability to concentrate is abismal at the moment. <--- Dram

[Reckamonic]

@UT: We were wrong for giving you scumpoints for that. The mason claims seemed too stupid for scum to try to pull off that early, but with them still alive this late in the game, it has become an important issue.

@Alduskkel: What specifically about vollkan's meta clears him of your suspicions?

@hitogoroshi: Thanks for clearing that up. And to answer your 971: yes, they were under heavy pressure when Scott claimed mason.

If we don't lynch the masons today, the endgame is going to be incredibly fucking headachy. Massclaiming today is also not a good idea. It puts PRs out in the open and we don't want that yet, especially when we could use one more night of good information.

If we lynch the masons today, best case scenario, one of them is scum, we lynch the other tomorrow, and it's good fucking game.
Worst case scenario, it's a mason, and the other mason takes a night kill so whatever PRs we have left would be alive for endgame.

[Reckamonic]

Then let's do this.

Vote: Nobody Special

[Reckamonic]

We may be able to get a post up this afternoon, but if not, it won't be until Sunday night/Monday afternoon due to dram being away the whole weekend.

[Reckamonic]

Post coming tomorrow night/Monday afternoon.

[Reckamonic]

@Skill: The deadline is the 7th of november, fix that?

Thank you #293,018

More inclined to believe a DH2/UT scumteam over a Hito scum. Having a hard time explaining the massive vote-swinging on Hito and the complete lack of vote from DH to UT even though the latter is in no risk of a quickhammer.

Vote: DemonHybrid

Déjà Vu

[Reckamonic]

The earlier position didn't have a MyLo vote/unvote train going around it though.

From my PoV, you're town and that leaves UT, DH and Hito

The speed of the wagon on Hito makes me believe he's less likely to be scum, but just in case I'm wrong on that, I checked the three possible teams, and I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around a UT/Hito scumteam, because that would mean for some unexplored reason UT decided to put his buddy at L-1 in MyLo, and frankly that makes zero sense.

Therefore, the common denominator to the other two scumteams is where our vote is sitting.

[Reckamonic]

That was fast o_0

[Reckamonic]

analyzing, please dont rush!

[Reckamonic]

The reason why I'm claiming this is to put things in perspective and to tell you guys the bad news: Town has effectively lost unless everyone lynches a mafia during the day and I kill a mafia during the night, leaving the game at majority town vs. me.

Theorically that's true, except your argument is flawed by rule no 1. You can't shoot scum tonight, it's against your wincon. We've most likely lost if there are two scums.

Let's assume for a moment that everyone plays correctly (aka to their wincon) and that the town doesnt have an extra doctor.

Case 1: 3town vs 2scum vs 1sk

Case 1.1: scumlynch!

3 town vs 1 scum vs 1 sk


a) scum is shot, SK ends in a town majority endgame,

against wincon

b) one town is shot by both parties, leading to a 2 town vs 1 scum vs 1 sk.

Prisoner's Dilemna with an extra townie

c) different town are shot by both parties, leading to 1vs1vs1.

Prisoner's Dilemna.

Case 1.2: sklynch!

2scum vs 3town


a) town is shot,

game over

Case 1.3: townlynch!

2town vs 2 scum vs 1sk


a) sk shoot scum, scum shoots town.

Prisoner Dilemna

b) sk and scum shoot same town.

If scum has RB scum wins, if scum doesn't it comes down to PM formulation (half the town vs cant be eliminated anymore)

c) sk and scum shoot different town.

Scum wins.

Case 1.4: No-lynch

a) scum is shot, town is shot.

Prisoner Dilemna with an extra townie

b) one town is shot by both parties, leading to a 2 town vs 2 scum vs 1 sk.

Weird ass Prisoner's Dilemna

c) sk and scum shoot different town.

If scum has RB scum wins, if scum doesn't it comes down to PM formulation (half the town vs cant be eliminated anymore)

Case 2: 4 town vs 1 scum vs 1 sk

Case 2.1: scum lynch

a) sk shoots a townie,

town wins

Case 2.2: sk lynch

a) mafia shoots a townie, 3 town vs 1 scum.

Probably NL plus normal endgame stuff

Case 2.3: town lynch

a) mafia and sk shoot same townie, 2 townie vs 1 scum vs 1 sk,

prisoner dilemna with an extra townie.

b) sk shoots mafia, mafia shoots townie, 2 townie vs 1 sk,

town win

c) sk and mafia shoot different townie,

prisoner dilemna

Case 2.4: No lynch

a) scum is shot, SK against majority,

town win

b) one town is shot by both parties, leading to a 3 town vs 1 scum vs 1 sk. Obviously SK is lynched first, then it's 2 town vs 1 scum.

Normal endgame

c) sk and scum shoot different town. 2 townie vs 1 scum vs 1 sk,

prisoner dilemna with an extra townie.

Now then, if there are 2 scum, we lost, plain and simple.

If there is 1 scum left however, the options are somewhat less grim. The options are

a) lynch the one scum
b) lynch the one sk
c) no-lynch

a is a guessing game with a 33% of success, BUT if it hits scum we win.
b can't miss thanks to the claim, but then it's a normal endgame.
c... is mostly unlikely. In this situation DH doesn't want to shoot scum, so scum can shoot whichever scummy townie fits them best.

Our preference lies in option B, and as such our vote will remain where it is.

[Reckamonic]

I'm telling you for the sake of my wincon and your wincon.

Our wincon is already dead, buried and slaughtered if there are 2 mafioso left DH. If there are one, your death is beneficial.

We're not unvoting

[Reckamonic]

*if there is one

[Reckamonic]

Actually:

Mafia has two choices tonight if you no-lynch: kill a townie or no-kill by targeting me.
I want to kill mafia or not depending on that choice, therefore, a complete toss-up for you guys.

If we lynch town, I'm forced to kill mafia regardless.

If we lynch mafia, I'm killing mykonian.

You lynch me, we both lose, assuming you guys are town.

That's the situation here.

If we lynch town, you kill mafia and we get prisoner dilemna
if we lynch mafia, you kill myko and we get prisoner dilemna.
If we no-lynch, you kill mafia and mafia kills town, we get prisoner dilemna
If we no-lynch, you kill town and the mafia kills town, it's a wincon contest between mafia and SK

Where the fuck do we win here?

Do you seriously want us to believe that scum is going to shoot you when you claim BP?

[Reckamonic]

2 scum vs 1 sk vs 2 town is still Prisoner Dilemna, genius

EDIT: You're BP, mafia can't kill you and you can pick em off night by night, it's all dependant on wording

[Reckamonic]

Say I kill mafia, and they kill mykonian. What then, the next night?

That's PD.
Again.

[Reckamonic]

To clarify

2 town 1 scum 1 sk.

a) town decides to lynch a baddie, the other baddy wins
b) town NL, sk kills town, scum kills town, town loses
c) town NL, sk kills town, scum spites SK and no kills, back to PD
d) town NL, sk kills scum, scum kills town, sk wins
e) town NL, sk kills scum, scum spites sk and No kill, town win

You're right, the town can win if you play against your wincon

Who are you kidding here?

[Reckamonic]

1 BP sk vs 1 scum is your win.

You have absolutely no reason to shoot the scum and give us that minuscule chance to win.

[Reckamonic]

Actually DH, that's not quite true.

If there is one mafia left, it's in our best interest to lynch you, we STILL don't wanna No-Lynch

[Reckamonic]

If there are 2 mafia left, we are doomed whatever happens.
No, there is no minuscule chance for us to win.
If there is 1 mafia left, yes we could NL.
But we heard about this new thing called lynching claimed scum and are dying to try it.

[Reckamonic]

The "1%" involves you picking the 50% instead of the 75%.

[Reckamonic]

ITG, the SK goes "trust me guys!"

We prefer the >1% that the setup is actually badly designed

[Reckamonic]

And on that note, we're done posting for the night.
This argument is going nowhere. The statistics have been proven, both sides have argued their point, and tbqh, this is tiring us out having to repeat ourselves

[Reckamonic]

However, and this the big positive, Lynching scumreck is the only way we win in a 2-1-3.

That's really pathetic coming from confirmed town
EVEN supposing we're scum, that is a lie in every possible scenario that doesn't include DH

playing directly against his win condition

.

The

ONLY

possible way to win here is to hope there is only 1 scum left, and lynching

claimed scum AKA DH

is optimal in this case.

Did you like, skip the complete last 4 pages?

[Reckamonic]

Myko, if there is indeed 1-1-4, it doesn't matter indeed when we lynch mafia, that is a fact. Except you're hopping we're mafia when you know that DH is SK.

The odds are optimal because you're taking a chance now instead of later with a smaller lynch pool. Guess what? If there is only 1 scum left, we'll lynch DH, NL tomorrow and our odds at victory will be

better

than they are with your little guessing game.

If there are 2 scum left, we lose in every scenario, so we should lynch with only one scum left in mind.

EDIT: we posted the scenarios on page 84 Hito if you wanna look em up and check whatever you want from there

[Reckamonic]

Go ahead, we're in no rush

[Reckamonic]

A scumlynch is awesome for town.

You're very slow aren't you?

[Reckamonic]

Our Options (from what is currently the trend):
a) Lynch DH, shrink the suspect pool, endgame
b) Follow Myko and shoot in the dark, hoping to get lucky with a larger suspect pool, then lynch DH

What the hell is the benefit of b)? Myko is going to die during the night regardless of the option we choose. Call us strange, but we'd rather have to pick the scum in a pool of 2 than in a pool of 3. =_=

[Reckamonic]

and the PD bullshit. There is no PD here, but it is a good reason to bullshit your way through theory. Exactly what you pointed out, Reck was clearly overstating the town's win chances.

I'm not overstating's town win chance. We're fucked if we're not in a 4-1-1 setup and dont lynch both scum and sk subsequentially. we said that already.

And wether you wanna call it "scum kingmaker" or PD, the result it still town cant win, Myko.

And contrary to you, who did nice consider NL and lynching someone else as option, he is absolutely set on it.

we explained very clearly in 1491 why DH is the better option, stop spouting BS

He doesn't explain why we should lynch claimed scum, he says that one should always lynch obvscum. Well, duh

. Oh, let me explain to you why we should lynch scum then. If we lynch town, we lose. OH CRAP!

They are there to convince, not to find out what the best thing for town is (like you did). There is a very clear difference in mentality. They act like they

need

a DH lynch, while town (like you), were trying to find out what the best for town is.

We've already explained multiple time why lynching DH IS what is best for town.

And then the last thing. Reckamonic is clearly aware this is the time for action. He usually isn't overactive, but the last few pages he is unnaturally active here. He can win or lose the game here, so we can't really blame him. But for town, in this frankly (sorry mod but I mean this) stupid and annoying game, there is little to gain.

Our odds of winning are low, doesn't mean we should throw the towel like what you're doing Myko.

Yes, we're active because we want this potential town win, while you, a CONFIRMED town, are pushing for a town-loss.

[Reckamonic]

Hito fuckin unvote for God's sake

[Reckamonic]

Myko, you're putting more faith in a maybe than in certainty here, you're in no position to give playing lessons

[Reckamonic]

Let me get a couple of things clear to give us a little bit of a chance.

If there is only one townie alive tomorrow, they are voting for whoever is not Demonhybrid. If there are two townies alive tomorrow, they are both voting to no-lynch.

You're basically saying give the claimed SK the win?

[Reckamonic]

Assuming we flip town, town loses.

Assuming we flip scum and have no buddy, tomorrow will be 1-3 and town will win. However, that works as well with offing DH first.

Assuming we flip scum and I have a buddy, night will be 1-1-3. DH will shoot Myko of course, so 1-1-2 at best. If a NL happens scum will just shoot and give DH the win. Town loses

Again, I don't know where Myko got that lynching us over DH is good for town, but it's not.

[Reckamonic]

we're also less likely to find the scum now than later.

It's not because you're calling us that we don't want to lynch the scum first, it's because there's no tangible benefit, while lynching the SK is very tangible.

[Reckamonic]

SK could still hit a scum overnight.

[Reckamonic]

Guys, you are aware that you need mafia to get an SK lynch, right?

and that mafia wants to lynch the SK, so they are trying in some way to make that lynch work.

or am I the only one?

Theoretically, mafia could be Hito, so that's some nice BS right there.

Also, you're already helping DH Myko,. I very much doubt you were the one DH was talking to.

Love how you agree to further a CLAIMED ANTI-TOWN player's goals. You may be confirmed, but you're a plague.

[Reckamonic]

except your odds of hitting scum were really not that good <<

[Reckamonic]

yes but our odds of winning killing the sk were zero

thus doing that would in fact be terribad town play

technically with proper SK play and the lack of a blocker/killer scum your odds of winning would've been zero regardless :p

[Reckamonic]

You're missing the edict that "if there are three people alive D5, the townie is voting for whoever isn't Demonhybrid." With that, the scum HAD to no-kill that night or auto-lose. Then, DH had to scumhunt with his kill N5. Scum wins if he fails, but if he succeeds it's scum kingmaker. That is a better chance than zero.

That supposes UT likes you though