Mini 980 - Trader Mafia (Game Over)
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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My first thought is that the minimum bids are mostly really, really low (the main exception is pickpocket, which is probably a pretty realistic price). There is ~1 ability per person there - even if some more are going to come onto the market, you'd expect the average ability price to be substantially more than half our cash. Don't be fooled into thinking the minimum price is a fair one, particularly for the more powerful abilities.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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On Jack's name changing:
Originally, I made a point against him - and I still think what he said is a scumtell. He implicitly replied with the rather poor defense "shouldn't you also suspect Andrius?" by changing the name in my post. I pointed out that Andrius hadn't done the same thing, and now he's trying to make a joke out of it.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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The person with the nightkill should definitely claim if they are town. Then, the town should 100% direct them (no shortlists). Unless you are unlucky enough to target scum whose partner has the doc ability (unlikely), there's no danger in directing the NK.
I think I disagree with Jack about cop being low town priority. If scum has it, it's half as likely to catch scum.
If town gets investigation immunity, they should probably claim it. Same might go for double voter - the confusion that causes about how near a lynch is is probably more likely to hurt the town than otherwise.
@mod:I voted Jack, not farside.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Hmmm. The scum-will-put-him-over $1000 could be fixed by making $999 smaller (500 would probably do) and him taking out a big loan to buy things.
There are other problems which it's probably unwise to go into right now, but I don't think they are fundamental.
However, it totally relies on a confirmed townie, and we don't have any of those. Also, with the number of abilities already would probably break it - it's a pretty delicate strategy. It's not going to work here.
The person with the NK needs to claim if they are town. You can't be killed, as you have the only kill, and the town needs to be able to direct you or itwillassume you are scum.
@Andrius: note that you can't wire money if you're in debt.
Also note that deadline clocks are 24 hour.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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IMO, poor breaking strategies are way more likely to come from overexcited town than scum. From Flash's post I get a vibe of a feeling I get sometimes when I feel I've had an insightful setup idea, and I think it's genuine.
The double voter should claim, since we'll know who they are soon enough anyway. I'm betting they are scum - it's an ability scum would buy much more than town, particularly if they didn't realise (as was probably common) that it would show up in votecounts.
##vote: Zang
So, half the players have just put down irreversible votes in Zang's mind? He seems remarkably chilled about it. Then asks Jack if he's claiming scum, which he clearly isn't - I just can't think why you'd ask that question. Not saying anything of interest during the auction is also a point against him (and probably a few other people) - scum would be way more secretive about what they were thinking then.Zang wrote:Hi, everybody. I have three pages to read (I didn't think there would be this much pre-game talk.
Also, why is everyone voting? You do realize that you can't unvote.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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It's not the rule misunderstanding; it's the way you reacted to what you would have perceived as a total disaster for the town. If you thought that several players had cast votes they couldn't take back, why on earth were you so calm about it?
Self voting during the early game is clearly not claiming scum.
Re: posting during the auction; I was thinking that people who didn't comment much on the auction itself were more likely scum. But reading better, that's really most people. I withdraw that point.
Why are you voting for me?-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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I agree re: NK. Obviously there's still time for a town killer to claim, but if we don't get a claim pretty soon it's safe to assume they are scum.farside22 wrote:Since a player is not claiming to have bought the NK I assume scum.
Fishy why would you assume scum would buy the double vote ability. That is strong but I think scum was focas on those that sold for much higher.
I think several abilities here are scumtells. Most obviously investigation immunity and the unclaimed NK, but also double vote. The reason for my focus on that is that we can find out who they are.
@Zang: I don't see what you mean by "because you knew something was wrong", in the context of your post about unvoting. Could you try to rephrase that?
Double voter is Jack, being the crossover between the two votecount anomalies. Why did you buy it, Jack?
FoS: VV. Not talking about the mechanics isn't a problem. But being so desperate to defend yourself that you say the mechanic which just sold some extremely strong abilities doesn't really matter/apply yet is really off.
@Zajnet: in my experience, you don't want to drown in the setup. Scumhunting isn't affected much by all these abilities in unknown places - and it's not really inherently any more confusing than a closed setup. There'll almost certainly be some points where the game mechanic is critical, but until then you'd be well advised not to think too much about it.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Zajnet was expressing that he was finding scumhunting difficultbecauseof the unusual setup. My experience is that in unusual/confusing setups setup speculation is done too much, to the detriment of "normal" scumhunting.
While the marketplace has provided plenty of discussion so far, I'd say there is a lot less alignment related stuff flying around than at this stage of a typical game.
The setup is obviously important, and when it is useful to form strategies and/or find scum, of course it matters. But talking about the setup isn't a substitute for scumhunting, and I think towns tend to talk about the setup too much way more than they talk about it too little.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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The desperate defense I refer to: when attacked for not contributing during the marketplace stage, your defense was that you were "not really interested in talking about mechanics that don't really matter/apply yet". Whatever alignment you are, this is totally untrue. The mechanics clearly matter and apply already. The only reason I can see for saying this is trying to discredit that point against you, and not caring about the truth of your arguments while doing so.VasudeVa wrote:@Fish: I don't get the FoS. Soo, I'm suspicious because I don't want to talk about who won the NK/bulletproof/whatever but am willing to talk about the DV which was obviously bought by Jack? What desperate defensiveness hm?
I donotsuspect you for failing to talk about the NK/BP/whatever. I suspect you because of that post.
Why?VV wrote:While town should be interested in buying abilities, scum would be a lot more interested in them. Just sayin.
##vote: VV-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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1. Discussion being theory doesn't make it bad, or moot. That's really not the point though; you didn't say theVasudeVa wrote:@Fish: 1. No one is claiming whatever they bought(yet), so any discussion is theory and also moot. You yourself agree that we should not drown ourselves in speculation and that was what I was talking about.
2. Because without the powers, scum are NK-less, not to mention weak. Also if they didn't get it, some one else got it and they'll fear for their necks. Shouldn't that make them more interested in buying/finding out who got the powers hm?
@Andrius: Well, I know how you act when you're scum .discussionwas irrelevant at this stage, you said that themechanic itselfwasn't important.
2. OK.
@farside: the reason I think that being a double voter is a scumtell is just that scum would want that ability more. It's more important for them to have control of lots of votes, because they know what the right way to use them is. It's also a generally antitown ability whoever has it, at least at the start of the game.
Clearly, I don't believe in this enough to be voting for Jack at this point, but I do think it makes him a bit more likely to be scum.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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That's L-1.
@VV: what do you mean by Jack's "scummy use of the double vote"? Self voting may be odd, and in certain circumstances can be horribly antitown, but how is it a scumtell?
@farside: I really think that scum are more likely to bid for a double vote than town - is that what you are Fossing me over?-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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I don't see the relevance of the NK and the pickpocket here. There are 4 scum players, and I don't think that one or two abilities being in scum hands (the NK very likely is, pickpocket could go either way) has much bearing on what else they might have bought.
Meh. Maybe you're right about bidding to keep it out of scum hands. My instinct is that town will generally be less interested in have multiple votes than scum, but that might just be because I never really thought about bidding for it myself.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Let's quote that sentence in full again:VasudeVa wrote:@Fish: Are you reading the same sentence as I am? That sentence reads to me as 'The discussion is doesn't matter yet', not 'The mechanics don't matter yet.'
1) The word "that" refers to a noun. In this case, the only noun. Mechanics.VV wrote:I'm here. Not really interested in talking about mechanics that don't really matter/apply yet.
2) The word "don't" agrees with a plural noun. In this case, the only noun. Mechanics.
It's not like this sentence is wrong in any way. It's a perfectly grammatical sentence, with no ambiguity in it, which says that the mechanics don't really matter/apply yet.
Again, you defend yourself with points that just don't make any sense. And for me, that's a major scumtell - you clearly care far, far more about the defense than about the accuracy of your statements.
@VV: why is dispersing your own wagon scummy? What makes you think that was Jack's intention? Generally, you seem to be saying that Jack's wagon dispersal, his double vote and his self vote (perhaps?) are linked, and that some or all of these make him scummy. It would help if you could clarify your position - what exactly has Jack done that you think scum do more than town?
@Zajnet: "The scum were bidding on the NK and the pickpocket" - news to me. While I agree the scum very likely bought the NK, there's no particular reason to think they bough pickpocket. Have you got inside information here?
Either way, there are 4 scum, and they can all take out loans. Saying that they couldn't have bought the DV for 41 is a bit silly.
@Zang, SPS, SK, Flash, anyone I've missed: who is scum and why? This game needs more from you.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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I almost can't believe I'm arguing this. If you were agreeing don't with a gerund, the sentence would be
"I'm not really interested in [talking about mechanics] thatdoesn'treally apply yet."
Even without this, the natural reading of that sentence is totally clear, and I simply do not believe you meant this form. For one bonus thing, "talking about mechanics" is something that can "matter" or not, but I fail to see how "talking about mechanics" can "apply" or not. Unlike mechanics, which can both "matter" and "apply".
I'm voting you because of -
1. The original sentence - I don't believe you genuinely thought the mechanics didn't matter. You simply said that to further you argument.
2. This argument. There's no way you can think you sentence was originally intended to mean the discussion was irrelevant. Again, you're lying to further your argument.
3. I think your stance to Jack is off. I've got no clear picture of which of {self-vote, double vote, wagon derailment} you find scummy, of why any of these are scummy in your eyes, or of the links between them you've implied. I think that's because that picture doesn't exist; you were just hoping something stuck.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Mistake =/= lying indeed. Here, I don't think it's plausible that it's a mistake.
I've got no problem with pressure votes (although I somewhat dislike people saying that's what they are doing). But when asked why you were voting Jack, you responded with this. That's not saying it was a pressure vote, that's giving reasons for your vote. If you give reasons for a vote, you should have reasons for thinking the guy is scum. I don't think you did here.
I don't see the relevance of you unvoting Jack since then.
Why do you think I'm scum?-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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@VV: when commenting on why you thought Jack was scum, you were replying to farside's post which was above mine. I've got no desire to speculate on your scumbuddy right now; you haven't got any particular links that I have noticed. There are one or two players on your wagon I doubt are bussing you, but almost everyone would be reasonable for your buddy.
So, in 232 you thought I was scum because I was wrong about the post 191 was replying to? This is just a terrible reason.
Re: your mistake (or not). The reason I don't think it's a mistake is that it makes perfect sense as it stands, and isn't even a corruption of a similar sentence that pretty much makes sense and means what you are claiming. As for why you would have said it, I touched on this a while back - you'd been attacked for not talking about the mechanics during the auction. Wanting to defend yourself, you posted this, without thinking about how true it was.
@Zajnet: the line "we can't tell whether it was a mistake, so it's a nulltell" makes no sense. Compare with the line "we can't tell whether he's scum, so his play is a nulltell" - there's really no difference. You can look at his posts, and judge how likely the mistake he's claiming is. Here, for me at least, the answer is "very unlikely indeed".
Yeah, if a townie has II they should certainly claim so. There's no drawback - note in fact that you can't hand the ability back to scum, as nightkilled players' abilities don't go back on the market.
Re: mafia B having a name. In this game, the setup is sufficiently open that that can't mean anything.
FoS: SPSfor active lurking with lashings of IIoA. Who is scum and why?
@Zang: do you still think Jack is scum? I never really worked that one out - why is it exactly?
@Navy: who is scum?
@mod:Please prod flashstorm and Nobody Special.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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You knew what he meant?
1. "Talking" is not something that can "apply". What does the sentence "Talking about mechanics doesn't apply here" mean?
2. The word "don't" refers to the plural noun mechanics, not the singular noun "talking".
I can just about see how, at a stretch, you could claim this is a mistake - a corruption of "Not really interested in talking about mechanics that doesn't really matter/apply yet.". I think this second sentence is stilted, and I don't really believe it, but it's just about possible. But to claim the natural reading is that the talking about mechanics doesn't really matter yet is not credible.
Why are you particularly interested in who VV's scumbuddies might be? Do you think that he has few enough likely buddies that this makes him unlikely scum?-
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@VV: I don't share your view that if you had a scumbuddy they'd be "going nuts". They might well think that obviously defending you was a bad idea.
If my interpretation of events is correct, you were defending yourself and you made a pretty serious misjudgement. You probably didn't think hard about the post before you posted it. I agree that the fact that what you said is pretty obviously a silly thing to say makes it more likely it was a genuine mistake.
@NS: why do you want to know what SK thinks about VV's possible buddies, if you're not interested yourself?-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Urgh. What a horrific post. "Generating discussion" is a terrible reason to ask questions you don't want to know the answers to, and have no particular reason to ask. The second sentence is an ad hominem wanting me to stop asking you about it, or just generally discredit me. Why did you ask that question if you aren't interested in VV's scumbuddies?Nobody Special wrote:@Fish: It's called 'generating discussion.' Hush now, the adults are talking.
Fos: NS
@VV: I didn't say I think it is likely it was a mistake. Simply that your argument made itmorelikely. What do you mean by me looking "somewhat protown but really suspicious"?
I also found your stance on Jack really unbelievable - it didn't feel like a position you believed in at all.
@SK: you were all up for a VV wagon, until Jack moved off it. Your only reason for not voting was that it was a hammer (which is of course a good reason). Why the sudden change of heart?-
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Of course there's nothing wrong with thinking that, if that's what you thought. My problem is that you mentioned several aspects of Jack's play as reasons you were voting him - lying about the double vote, self voting and the way the wagon on him fell apart. I don't see how any of these are indicative of Jackscum - and more to the point I don't understand why you thought they were.
Now you may realise that there was some element of OMGUS to your stance on Jack - but when you voted him, that wasn't your reason. Why did you find him scummy (rather than just antitown) then?
What is it about my play that makes me "very suspicious"?-
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##vote: Andrius
Not a good catch up post. The alignment related things in it:
1. Asking an already OMGUSy player to become more OMGUSy.
2. On the farside wagon. Some fence sitting - the bad kind where you aren't undecided, just have no intention of doing anything until other people do.
3. A prediction that there is scum on the dispelled farside wagon. He doesn't give a reason for this (why is being on a fast dispelling wagon a scumtell?).
I dislike the comment on grammar - while it seems a silly thing to be arguing over, I think it's quite obvious here that the grammar of that sentence is hugely relevant to whether someone dropped an enormous scumtell. To dismiss that as irrelevant just because it's talking about grammar is both easy and wrong.-
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@Andrius: VV gave a some-of-these-are-scum list, which included precisely all the players on his wagon. SK wasn't there, and you asked why.
I'm not saying you should have followed the wagon blindly. Here's what you said:
So. What do you think of the farside wagon? You agree with it to an extent. Which is pretty much totally meaningless. What good points have been made against farside? We don't know. How likely is farside to be scum? We don't know. Are you likely to vote farside over other players? We don't know. This reads very much like scum who wants to be able to make their mind up when it becomes clearer whether this wagon is leading to a lynch.Andrius wrote:Ok wow. The farside wagon jumped up out of nowhere. I agree with it to an extent. I just hope these wagons don't push us to what happened in a current game, where the town (before I replaced in) decided to wagon 3 people to L-1 and force claims. /bad idea
Ok wow. That farside22 wagon dispelled really fast. I'm willing to bet game money that there was a scum on that wagon (even if farside was scum herself. Nothing like bussing.)
I think you're very wrong about the grammar thing. If I say a sentence meaning "I'm scum", but I claim it has some other harmless interpretation, it's clearly important to work out whether that harmless interpretation is likely. Sounds like something you believe though.
Disliking VV's wagon hopping. Generally liking Andrius's response.
##vote: VV-
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Actually, I was bringing up that sentence only in arguing with Andrius. It's still one of my reasons for voting you, certainly. I never said it was a "likely mistake" - I said that one particular piece of evidence made itmorelikely a mistake.
I don't understand your point on wagon hopping - why does there being only one wagon other than yours make you jump on it?
There's a difference between being interested in survival andonlybeing interested in survival. From the way you hop on any wagon which might rival yours, it looks like you don't care who we lynch as long as it isn't you.-
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There are some things that make me think it wasn't a mistake. There is one thing that makes me think it more likely to be a mistake. Why on earth shouldn't I consider both?
By your argument, if I think someone scum I should ignore all evidence to the contrary. You are saying precisely that it is wrong and scummy to consider both sides of the argument. Which is an extraordinarily horrible attack.
No access for ~24 hours.-
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@VV: there is no contradiction or scumminess in acknowledging a point in support of an argument you disagree with, or in not being certain about something. Your pair of quotes has the same form as the following:
"I agree that the fact that Rio Ferdinand being injured makes it more likely that Algeria will beat England. "
"No, I don't think Algeria will beat England. I'm not 100% certain, but it's unlikely. "
Clearly, these make sense together. And if you believe the second one, it's no reason not to say the first.
I don't really understand the term cognitive dissonance, but AFAIC here you are using it to mean some combination "not being certain about something" and "contradicting yourself". The first is not a scumtell, and the second I have not done.-
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Zajnet's initial contributions today are odd. Feels like he wants to keep the Andrius thing from yesterday going, with no particular reason - what does it mean that Andrius is "our best lead", other than that he had a wagon on him yesterday?
I agree with SK that NS's reasons for thinking Andrius is scum are very contrived. They feel like a game of "what can I find that looks like a scumtell?" rather than "who is actually scum?". I also dislike NS's play in my argument with him yesterday - his stances were:
Nobody Special wrote:StK, it makes no sense that you are 'convinced' that Vas is scum yet you refuse to vote. Clarify, please? You also have a list of "other" scum. Please, which is most likely out of that list to be paired with VV?Nobody Special wrote:@Fish: I don't have much interest in who might be buddies with whom. I was asking StK what HE thought. I suspect you're not trying to misrep me, so I won't accuse you. But read me carefully next time.Nobody Special wrote:@Fish: It's called 'generating discussion.' Hush now, the adults are talking.
So. I found NS's orginal question odd. When I asked him about it, he said he wasn't interested in who VV's buddies were. On further questioning, he told me to shut up and that he was "generating discussion". I wasn't satisfied with that explanation - "generating discussion" is a pretty poor excuse to ask basically irrelevant questions. He responded with the implication that actually his passing interest in VV's scumbuddiesNobody Special wrote:Fishythefish wrote:Why did you ask that question if you aren't interested in VV's scumbuddies?
Not much != none.Nobody Special wrote:@Fish: I don't havemuchinterest in who might be buddies with whom.waswhy he asked SK the original question. I feel he's given two poor and contradictory reasons for that question.
Having said all that, Andrius is also on my scumlist. During Day 1, up until he started coming under pressure, he did basically nothing. Nothing that would apply pressure to a player, work towards finding their alignment or lead to a lynch. When he made points he frequently weakened them, and this makes it feel like he was nervous about being called on what he was posting.
He's been very vocal and pretty convincing in his defense, but otherwise posting a lot while doing very little looks like under-the-radar scum to me.
##vote: Nobody Special-
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Andrius. He's used a lot of words to do very little in this game, and I think that comes from scum more than town - scum want to look like they are a contribution, but have less motivation to actually scumhunt..SaintKerrigan wrote:
Are you referring to Andrius or Nobody Special here? Either way, please expound on this.FishytheFish wrote:He's been very vocal and pretty convincing in his defense, but otherwise posting a lot while doing very little looks like under-the-radar scum to me.-
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I dislike SK's play here. I think Almaster has it right; if you know a PR as town, why bother saying "You are a PR. Agree with me or die!"? I can see no town motivation for this play, particularly as SK's belief is that this has marginal impact on Andrius's alignment.
FoS: SK
@SK: is there nothing you can draw from your information about what role and what alignment Andrius has? Please think hard about this.
It should be noted that there are 10 players in this game, and 4 of them are scum. So if you think 2 of 5 PRs are scum, being a PR is a total nulltell.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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@SK: your conclusion at the end of your analysis is that Andrius is 40% likely to be scum. The baseline probability of someone being scum in this game is 40%. That means that your information says nothing about his alignment. It's nonsensical to call this a "suspicion" of Andrius.
Why did you out Andrius as a PR? I can't see what you were hoping to achieve.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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This is not a matter of opinion.
If you have 10 players in a game, and it's known that there are 4 scum and 6 town. It's known that 2 of the scum are PRs, and three of the town are PRs. Then it is an objective fact that having a PR is a nulltell. How could it possibly reflect on that player's alignment, when the chances that he is scum have not changed?
Regardless, I still want an answer to my question: what did you hope to achieve when you demanded that Andrius claim he was a powerrole?-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Your recent shenanigans have a good scum motivation, and no good town motivation that I can see, which makes you likely scum. Scum-with-NK in your position would know Andrius had a role, and would want to know which to find out whether he was worth killing. Scum-without-NK have an even better reason - you would know Andrius had a role but, having no nightkill, would need to tell the other scumteam this. As town, on the other hand, I can't see how you expected to find out anything about Andrius's alignment, and it doesn't seem a likely play.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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If you are scum, you clearly thought this play is the kind of thing you could justify doing as a town PR - and that explains your odd justifications to do with Andrius's alignment. Rolefishing when it looks plausibly townie is a good thing for scum to do, and I'm guessing that's what you thought here.SaintKerrigan wrote:Good attempt, Fishy, if a bit flawed.
If I were on the scumteam with the NK, how does blatantly rolefishing (i.e. something widely considered as a live grenade) benefit me and my partner? There's a high chance I get lynched, and a very low chance I actually get Andrius to cough up what his role is. One scum member for one power role in a game with many power roles? Unless Andius was scum, this is a suicidal move for scum. Even with that condition, this just gives town a better chance to catch the surviving scum members.
This also applies in the other scenario. While having a member of one scumteam "suggest" targets to the one that has the NK does have some merit, you again encounter the problem of sacrifice. You more than likely get yourself lynched, andmaybethe other scumteam uses that kill to kill the power role instead of hunting for your surviving buddy. Again, how does this benefit the scum team suggesting the targets?
As for your problem with finding town motivation for my behavior, well, all I can say is that you need to think harder.
I've thought pretty hard about why you'd do what you did as town. I will do so again - perhaps I'm missing something obvious, but I can't see any way in which you had any information about Andrius's alignment.
I think it's extraordinary that most of the town seem unconcerned with SK's blatant outing of a PR with no reason to do so.
I think I like the cop claim idea. The price is that the ability might fall into scum hands, but for that we get a result, which is well worth it.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Please explain how my argument is WIFOM. The only thing in this which approaches WIFOM is you saying that you wouldn't have done something as scum because you would be suspected for it. I simply said why I think your play is likely from scumSK.
Here, you've done something I think is very scummy, and the rest of the town is like "meh". My post is born of town frustration.SaintKerrigan wrote:Y'know, I have said similar things as scum, when someone (town) did something that I thought was incredibly lynch-worthy, but when I tried to sell the case the rest of the town was like "meh". It's a sign of scum frustration.
How is my recent point a failure to look at things from your POV? What you've said there is that people are likely to jump on you for what is pretty clearly a bad reason. Implicitly, you are linking that to the other reason people are jumping on you, and so taking a totally unjustified dig at the case against you. It's effectively strawmanning the case against you into an argument that hasn't been made.
Is there any reason you think my point is tunneling other than that it's a point against you?-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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You've insinuated having information on Andrius's role; I've been making the assumption that this makes you a PR. You haven't said anything to confirm that specifically.
I'll comment on the rest of your post soon. It needs some rereading of parts of the thread which I don't have time to do right now. I'm getting a feeling that I'm wrong about some of this argument, and need to reexamine things. Expect more in the next 24 hours.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Hypotheticals about why scumSK and townSK would have done something aren't WIFOM. Scumhunting is deciding whether actions are more likely to come from scum or town, and thinking about why scumSK would have done what you did is crucial to that. Here, I think the aspect of giving the town your extra information would make it seem easier to get away with as scum.
As for town/scum frustration, your alignment really has nothing to do with it. I could be frustrated scum or frustrated town attacking scum or town. You seem to think I'm frustrated scum, and haven't said anything that says why I'm that over frustrated town.
While I'm sure I noticed them at the time, your insults weren't in my mind when I made that post. Your post was clearly a dig at something; I read it as a rather horrible dig against my case (probably because that's what I was thinking about at the time). As a dig against the wagon against you in general, I'm much more comfortable about it.SaintKerrigan wrote:So you haven't noticed all the other times I've insulted people (mainly SPS) on my wagon? Incidentally, you're the only one (to my knowledge) that is actively giving me reasons to respond to. Everyone else on my wagon is like "lol scummy behavior votevote" without showing why what I'm doing is scum-oriented. Personally, I feel justified in deriding them for this stance.
Hence, you're failing to look at it from my PoV.
OK. I'm happy with SK's responses to me. I still think that rolefish is scummy, and it will remain a point against SK for me unless and until it's explained, but I'm happy to move on. It is certainly true that SK's play would have been a risky one as scum.
##vote: Nobody Special
See an earlier post of mine for a couple of things in his play I've found scummy. With the lack of contribution, I think this is a fine lynch.
That's L-1. If NS has something to claim, he should do so now.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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I don't think NS's "thinking he was dead" post should be enough to derail his lynch. He might have seen StK's hammer was fake before posting, or he might just never help out the town by claiming truly in that position. It doesn't clear him at all.
Votes need ##'s to be counted.
I don't think Zajnet is particularly likely scum. His play during the first auction is much more likely to come from town, and the current reasons for voting him aren't that good.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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