Mini 897 - OpenSource Mafia - Game over!!

[Glork]

Confirm.

[Glork]

I can tell this game is not going to end well.

Vote: SocioPath

for posting immediately above me.

[Glork]

Does "partial-reveal" entail role-not-alignment revealed, or is it intentionally vague?

IIIIIIIII know what it means.



But I'm not gonna say.

[Glork]

That I am.

[Glork]

IIIIIIIII know what it means

But I'm not gonna say.

Why not?

I dun wanna.


I'm looking to see if I can clear something with the mod, then I might actually make a worthwhile post.






Also, Almaster is clearly a novice at policy pressure. If you start off by saying you're voting X for such-and-such policy (in this case, I assume it's Vaya's tendency to lurk, especially early in games), then your vote loses all meaning. There are much better ways to make people and talk than "I'm voting you because you lurk a lot."


On a completely unrelated note, I'm not scum, but I am

extremely curious

to see what would happen if Snow were to use her ability on me.


And lastly, you all suck for making me post content this early in the game.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: Josh

I refuse NOT to be part of such an early wagon!

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote Vala

Why not participate in a wagon on the most scummiest person so far?

Why vote Vala if you think SSK is the "most scummiest" person so far?

[Glork]

And by SSK, I meant Josh.

[Glork]

I can't do what I wanted to do. I can do part of it, but not enough to make me especially happy.


01001001111001110010111001001010111100110010000001001011


I don't think I screwed that up, but I might have. Consider this a partial breadcrumb.

[Glork]

That number, split into octets is

01001001 11100111 00101110 01001010 11110011 00100000 01001011

This becomes, in decimal:

73 231 46 74 243 32 75

Any ideas what this means?

The point of a breadcrumb is that you pretty much won't be able to figure it out on your own. It commits me to my role immediately (well, part of it anyway), and allows me to claim at will without anyone saying "why did Glork wait until this point to claim?"

You're not going to figure it out, and trying to do so publicly amounts to nothing more than rolefishing.




Uncertain Kitten, do you believe that Josh is scum? Please note some points for and/or against Josh, and describe how you feel about the current wagon on him.

Vaya, if Josh were killed and turned up scum right now, which player do you think would be most likely to be his scumbuddy?


Since SB volunteered some information, we have an unsually solid starting point. I'm going to do something I don't normally do, in that I want SB to claim fully (or as much as she can), even though I currently believe her to be protown. I'm mostly interested to know what will happen if SB were to (attempt to) use her ability on a protown player. What happens if she targets somebody twice during the course of the game (i.e., can she turn someone scum and then back to town)?

This game may have a theme or subtheme about alignment changes/reveals. I think that our first step is for each of us to figure out where we stand, as individuals and as a collective. If indeed it is possible for us to convert scums to protown players without significant loss to the rest of the town, we may be able to break this game wide open.

[Glork]

Her role/ability has a very direct impact on the rest of the players, and I want to be crystal clear on what she can do, whom she can target, how many times they can target, and how this affects certain other roles, including my own and at least one other role which I am fairly certain exists in this game.

There is a very great deal to be gained from her full-claiming. I don't want her to make inferences for herself, but I want to make inferences for myself within a clearer, more appropriate context. And I'm sure that there are other players who



IMO, the main objective in any bastard game is to get a feel for what you can and cannot trust, and what you have to do to give yourself the best chance of winning. While I realize that the scums will gain from us providing more information, I also know that we can get our own bearings a little straighter, and that's huge. A town which flails about -- even a little bit -- in a bastard game is setting itself up for failure. If this weren't a bastard game, I wouldn't even consider asking for more information, and there's a decent chance I would be ranting and raving at SB for having claimed anything to begin with. But this isn't a regular game. Not by any stretch of the imagination. We need information on what's going on, and this is probably the best we're going to be able to do.

[Glork]

EBWOP:

And I'm sure that there are other players who would like to do the same as well

...completed the sentence. I got distracted by my roommate and skipped ahead to the next thought/paragraph. >.<

[Glork]

I dunno. If there's any other aspect to her role that she hasn't revealed yet (say, she's a cop as well as a converter or something else like that that would make sense in combination with it), I'd kind of prefer she keep that under wraps.

This is actually a good point, and it hadn't crossed my mind because I assumed that SB wasn't "a cop or something" in addition to being an alignment-converter.

SB, if you have any completely unrelated abilities, I think you should keep those close-to-chest. But I'd still like to know everything you're willing to tell about this alignment-conversion thing.

[Glork]

I think that SocioPath made a bigger deal out of Vaya's "first line of his first post" than any reasonble person should. Vaya came into the thread and started talking about the most relevant current discussion topic. How is that a bad thing, exactly?

I also think that his reaction to Iecerint's response is completely ridiculous. Socio has yet to explain why "first line of first post" is in any way significant. Additionally, if he did "smell defensive buddyment," what's the significance of switching from one scumbuddy to the other? I don't like the vote-hopping, knee-jerk reaction. It's clearly hyperaggresive, which feels a bit insincere to me.

[Glork]

Haven't read Pages 9 and 10 yet, but

Vote: SSK

Claim info or die.

[Glork]

Oh, by the way, mafia, I'd advise not killing SSK tonight unless you'd like to confirm Vaya's alignment for us.

Highly suspect.

In fact...thinking about things further, there are two ways to do this. We lynch Vaya today, and something interesting happens tonight, which leads to a very clear day tomorrow, or we lynch neither Vaya nor SSK, something interesting happens tonight, and we still have a clear day tomorrow.

Also highly suspect.


Given the mod-acknowledged vagueness of player reveals and the "bastard-modded" nature of the game, I'd like you to take a couple of minutes to re-think your context and decide how much faith you actually have in getting a "very clear" picture of tomorrow based on what happens overnight.

Even if this were a NORMAL game, if a player came out D1 and seriously said they had role-based information to make them 99% certain, you'd want that information out as soon as possible. If SSK is telling the truth and his information can be trusted, we'd be guaranteed a result. If SSK thinks he's telling the truth but his information cannot be trusted, we can gain valuable information about the bastardly nature of the game. If SSK is bullshitting us, we're passing up a golden opportunity to put a scumbag under the microscope on D1.



I'm going to side with Vaya here (SOUND THE MUTUAL BUDDYING ALARMS) and point out what's wrong with SSK's behavior.
1) SSK is claiming to be 99% certain of another player's alignment on D1 of a bastard game. This is... extremely curious to say the least, and I'm not willing to buy into it at all without knowing what can make him so certain of that information in this particular game. Any number of things could go wrong with this. Millers. Death Millers. Cop sanity issues. Changing alignments. Redirections. Scum Protections/Abilities. "Insane" Doctors.

2) SSK claims to have important information but won't reveal it because he doesn't want to be made a target by the scums. I can't even begin to explain how terrible play this is. If the day were to end right here and now, with pseudo-information claimed, that puts SSK at the

MOST

risk of getting nightkilled (if indeed he is legit). Why? Because A) potential Docs/Jailkeepers/Etc. don't know whether they should be protecting him; and B) The Scums can send important information (whether it is accurate or not) to the grave with SSK.
--I don't want anybody to answer this in-game, but I have two rhetorical question for each of you to ponder, given what SSK has said and given the nature of the game: If you were a Doctor, would you be inclined to protect him tonight? If you were Scum, and knew/believed/assumed SSK was not part of your group, would you be inclined to kill SSK tonight?



I'm not saying that I think SSK is scum. Nor am I saying that I think Vaya is town. Fact is, I don't know what either one is (or even what they *might* be), and I'm concerned that some players are being very headstrong, assuming that a pile of partial "information" will give them clarity in what is very clearly a complex game.

MafiaSSK: if Vaya is scum, you are a very, very obvious target tonight already. With this in mind, a fullclaim seems natural. If you aren't prepared to fullclaim, and we lynch Vaya, and Vaya is town, tomorrow I will be voting for your lynch unless you both have a convincing reason to declare Vaya 99% scum (a huge certainty, particularly in a bastard game) AND a convincing reason why a fullclaim today was bad - something more than "to avoid NK".

This is a good stance, but I disagree with it.

Here's what I'd like, if at all possible

Vaya and SSK do NOT get lynched today.
SSK, do NOT fullclaim today.
Any protective role that exists, please protect SSK from kills.
I think D2 will be quite fruitful.

Before it's asked, yes, I have official reasons to believe this is the best course of action.

Again, I'll ask (rephrased): How confident are you that the words you read in the Moderator's posts will be truthful? It looks like you've put a fair amount of thought into this, but I don't trust you, I don't trust your information, and I don't trust SSK's information. It's hard for me to listen when you say "Trust me. Let's do this," because I'm probably less-informed than just about everybody else in this game, and I have a natural aversion to making assumptions in bastard games.


And finally, sorry for the wall of text. My mind is running at about a billion miles per hour, and I've considered a lot of things (including requesting that everybody massclaim -- but I've decided that's not the best course of action for *today*). I also have additional thoughts on why I want fullclaims instead of partial claims, but I will hold off on boring you folks unless you ask me to elaborate. I thinK I've rambled enough for now.

[Glork]

Also reinforced with Iec voting SSK for claiming Vaya as scum.

I voted SSK for claiming I had a "meta" of protecting my scumbuddies. I have never been scum, so there was no basis for SSK's claim. It looked to me like he was just supplying the easy answer to UK's yes/no question. I think it's possible that he did misremember my alignment in ILY mafia, though, for reasons I've already mentioned.

So you are claiming that your vote was based on you thinking SSK was scummy for misremembering you as scum in a past game?

No. He was voting based on thinking that SSK was scummy for

LYING

about Iece being scum in a past game.

Once Iece realized "oh, he might have honestly misremembered," he backed off.

[Glork]

Public Service Announcement:

In this game, it is a terrible idea to assume that someone is not a miller simply because they have not claimed miller. Claiming miller on another day is not a scum tell. If you are an investigative role and you got a guilty, it is highly likely that your result is wrong.

That is all.

:goodposting:


For the record, my vote remains on Josh mostly because I have absolutely zero idea who I think is most likely to be scum. I think I know of a few people who are probably not scum, but I am disinclined to share those thoughts right now. In the next 72 hours (I will be V/LA from Dec 23-27, and again around New Year's), I plan on doing a full re-read of the game. Expect another wall, and a real vote then.

[Glork]

One thought that had just occurred to me is that if SB's role does exist and she is protown, we may be dealing with a cult

instead

of a town. I know some people were all "so you're claiming to be a Cult Leader" when she first claimed, but her ability seems like a very natural foil to a relatively standard cult.


Just some food for thought.

[Glork]

I don't think we should lynch Vaya today. And I don't think that there's a pressing need for UK to claim today.

That's all fine and dandy, but which players do you think are most likely to be scummy scum scums, and why?

You've done depressingly little

actual scumhunting

, IMO.

Unvote, Vote: Pomegranate

[Glork]

"Try" is such a vague word.

What I've noticed is that in nearly twelve pages of gameplay, you've made approximately two original thoughts, about a dozen throwaway posts/comments, and some piggyback/check-in comments based on what other people have already said.

I don't think you've made a sincere effort to contribute to finding scum, which puts you at the very top of my list.

[Glork]

I'm putting Pom at a much, much higher level. Vaya has contributed. He has given his thoughts on players, and he has made direct, game-relevant attacks/interactions with others.

Alma, you have this pre-disposition against Vaya, but I'd like you to compare
Pom's posts to Vaya's posts and look at quality, not quantity.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Vaya's posts

Hotlink fail.

[Glork]

Ugh. On one hand, I think Pom is probably the best lynch candidate for today. But on the other hand, those are three really quick votes.

[Glork]

That's exactly why I'm torn.


Also, I hate when people say "pressure vote." It loses much of its meaning.

[Glork]

Hmm. Please clarify what you mean by this.

Possibility of a chainsaw causes me to reassess both of you. Tomorrow though.

I don't see how SocioPath used a Chainsaw Defense anywhere.

And even if it did, Chainsaw cannot be used as a valid point until its assumed premises are shown to be correct. That would require two dead bodies, which we don't have yet.

[Glork]

Also, I will be on V/LA from tomorrow until Dec 28. I will probably also be on V/LA around New Year's, but I don't actually know my NYE plans for certain yet.

[Glork]

I would be content to lynch any among {Pom, Iec, SP}

[Glork]

Quick post from my phone to say I'll be gone one extra day, until Monday night. Haven't read anything since my last post, will catch up and post Monday.

Hope you're all enjoying your holidays...

[Glork]

Home, exhausted, procrastinating until tomorrow probably...

[Glork]

Beginning reading now. Expect something within the next 90 minutes.

[Glork]

Don't see it working. I don't see how my gender has factored into this actually.

I'm aware. Course, if you want to keep complimenting me, go ahead ^-^.

Also notice how virtually every response to a part of my post starts with a short, snippet of a sentence.
Was that something that happened on purpose in that you had planned?
Or did it just sort of turn out that way?
Now, its not uncommon for you to have a such response, but look at the concentration.

Ugh, how is this relevant to ANYTHING? People have different posting styles. I can't even tell if you're trying to raise this as a point

against

UK. If you are, how do short responses make her more likely to be scum? If not, why did you make this post at all?

I understand where UK is coming from regarding Iece's "worrying about how people percieve him," but I don't necessarily agree with it.

I love Vaya's posting so far. I really do. Many of his thoughts eerily parallel my own, and he's actually digging into the crux of why I voted Pom to begin with. He's very vote-hoppy right now (three vote changes between Posts 356 and 375), but that's not a point against his alignment.

Pom's post against Alma feels like mere deflection. She may even believe that it's not truly OMGUS, but it's still her stammering and going "look at this guy" immediately after someone said "she's never actually made a firm case or voted anyone."

Regarding SSK's response to Pom (you're hypocritical, and IIoA is outdated):
-- I disagree with him on the hypocrisy site. I used to say that hypocrisy is a scumtell in everyone but me, and I didn't just say it for the irony. I understand where Pom coming from here
-- I agree with him completely on the IIoA site. Well, mostly... I didn't think IIoA was a big deal or a reliable scumtell to begin with

I'm getting a good vibe from Almaster, although his claim, upon a second look, looks really a scumclaim. Truth be told, I'd rather lynch him first than try to convert him (I rather lose a townie than create another scum). Almaster, if you are really town, then you wouldn't want me to target you. And thus, I ask again, do you want me to target you tonight?

I think we should let alma get the alleged alignment change. It will help town.

Ah, if you hadn't had claimed cop-something, I'd be voting for you now. Do you understand the risks of me performing my power on a town, right?

Vote: Glork

This is interesting.

She expresses that Alma's claim "looks really like a scumclaim," says she would rather lynch than convert, then votes for me for reasons unexplained. I'll bite. Why me, and why now?


Alma, can you explain exactly what changed your mind between these two posts:

That was a serious post. I can change a player's alignment during night. Only one per night, though. I was thinking that it was easy to create a happy ending if mafia just outed themselves and I turned them into town. As UK said, you can test it with your weakest member.

Use it on me, please. This is not a joke.

I'm getting a good vibe from Almaster, although his claim, upon a second look, looks really a scumclaim. Truth be told, I'd rather lynch him first than try to convert him (I rather lose a townie than create another scum). Almaster, if you are really town, then you wouldn't want me to target you. And thus, I ask again, do you want me to target you tonight?

No.

For now, I'm keeping my vote on Pom.

[Glork]

@Glork: The vote was just to pressure you, to get you to post something.

Unvote

.
.

Do you even know who Glork is? Do you not see the award below his name? There is no way this is the real reason for your vote.

Pfffft.


SnowBunny, I had posted V/LA until Monday night. That's why I didn't post during that time. When I got home Monday night, I was exhausted from driving from VA to OH through snow, so I said I was going to wait until Tuesday to read/post here. That's all there was to it.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: Alma

wagonwagonlynchlynchgogogogogo

[Glork]

Possibly you missed it while catching up, but I was asked who I found scummiest, and why. My answer was Alm, thus I proceeded to make a case on him.

No, I realize that completely. My point is that even after I said "wow, Pom hasn't done a darned thing all game," you continued to not make an attack on someone or to change your vote until someone directly told you to do so.



I would still rather lynch Pom, but at this point I will shamelessly wagon anybody who I believe has an above-verage chance of being scum. Yes, I realize this is a big red X beside my name. Don't care at this point.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: Pom

Changed my mind. Woke up this morning and realized (remembered, rather) that Alma made a post that makes me feel that he is probably protown. At the very least, lynching Alma today is a terrible idea. There's a very good chance that lynching him ever is a terrible idea.

[Glork]

My problem with Pome’s case on Almaster is that none of the things she cites Almaster for are actually good scumtells (particularly hypocrisy, in this form – just because I haven’t posted any content in 10 pages doesn’t mean I think it’s acceptable for other people to do the same). However, I agree that Almaster hasn’t done much scumhunting.

My problem with Almaster’s response is that it’s pretty much a blatant misrep. Which is fun, because it really didn’t need to be. Almaster accuses Pome of hypocrisy, because she is criticising his lack of posting. This is false, because Pome’s actually attacking his hypocrisy. He then says “Basically, what SSK said” – but SSK said that hyprocrisy isn’t a good scumtell. To then attack Pome for hypocrisy is a conflict, and this suggests to me that Almaster saw a defence of him and jumped on it without worrying about what it said.

The amount of scumhunting I've done > The amount of scumhunting you've done.

This is no defense, and doesn’t feel like something that town would write.

Scumlist:
- Pome. For actively lurking.
- Almaster. Chainsaw defense of JL.

Biggest fence-sit ever.



That said,

Unvote, Vote: Josh Lyman

[Glork]

I think that Alma has a clause in his role PM very similar to mine, and I have reason to believe that another player might have a similar clause as well. That is enough for me to keep Alma (and that other player) alive until tomorrow, when we'll have a little more information to share.

[Glork]

Also, Josh, claim or die.

[Glork]

Also, limited access until Saturday/Sunday. Going to St. Louis for New Year's... unlike my trip to Virginia, I will have my laptop, but I will also be fairly busy during that time.

[Glork]

Also, Josh, claim or die.

Also, this.

No claim.....



....= die


Someone hammah.

[Glork]

Oh, right, I had forgotten about that. Feh.

[Glork]

Define "off." I'm not really interested in a meta discussion about myself unless you find it genuinely and seriously scummy, but I will say that erratic behavior is something of a hallmark of mine.

[Glork]

I think our mod is in need of a prod as well.... :/

[Glork]

I'm just worried that game momentum has been completely destroyed. There was a ton of really productive posting for like 90% of Day 1, but the last few days have been us just sitting around, twiddling our fingers. I fear that the enthusiasm and interest we started the game with has waned somewhat, and that definitely favors scum.

[Glork]

I don't envy whomever replaces JL. They have the task of replacing, reading a 21 page thread, convincingus not to lynch JL without being able to defend/explain JL's throught processes, and find an alternate lynch which six other players are willing to support.

In three days.

Basically, our D1 got completely boned unless we get another extension.

JL has not picked up his prod. I will begin the search for a replacement this evening.

Honestly, I think you shouldn't bother unless by some stretch of the imagination we DON'T lynch JL today. I'd just save the replacement.

Thing is, JL was (allegedly) prepping a claim when he disappeared. While it may not reflect well if he strategically "flaked," it's entirely possible that he *DOES* have a protown role that we really don't want to lynch today. I don't know about you, but I always keep that possibility open. If JL's replacement does claim a role that makes you go "crap, we need to put this off until tomorrow," what do you propose we do?

[Glork]

EBWOP: Is the site horrendously slow for anybody else? It took me like ten minutes to post that, when it should have taken two. :/

[Glork]

No, I understand what you're saying. And while part of me is getting cold feet (and would very gladly lynch any among Pom/Iece/SP as an alternate), the other part of me wants to stick to my guns and knows that an alternate lynch is basically impossible without an extension.

I guess our differences lie in that you're roughly saying, "Don't worry about the replacement, let's just go with the lynch," while I want to say, "Let's get that claim and see if it's actually enough to deter us from lynch."

Yes, it would suck for whomever has to replace, if they spend hours reading only to be lynched. But I really don't want us to short-change ourselves if we can get the information we were supposed to get.

[Glork]

Fair enough regarding Josh. I still feel sorry for the replacement.

Maybe before we hang them from the rafters, we can tell them how sincerely we appreciate their stepping in to be our corpse.

[Glork]

Oh snap, things have happened in this game.


Preoccupied at the moment, will read/respond within a couple of hours...

[Glork]

I think there's a definite theme of not being able to claim full info D1. I know there's a hugely signifcant part of my role that I can't claim until D2. Assuming I live to D2 (which is never a safe assumption :/), I plan on fullclaiming in my very first post of the day.

FoS: Phate

... Massclaim D1 is a bad idea, IMO. I'm a little disappointed that we've outed so much role information so far.

Josh's "

you don't want to lynch me today

" post made me think "if he claims, he's going to claim Cop," and that's exactly what Faraday claimed. That actually gives significant credence to the claim, in my own eyes.

Unvote

I think that given the week long extension, we should have no problem stringing up a better target.

Vote: Iece

for now, I guess. Will gladly switch to Pom.

[Glork]

In fact, I 100% believe that Faraday is legit.

[Glork]

Vote: Iece for now, I guess. Will gladly switch to Pom.

hmm? Why Iec?

Honestly, it was mostly arbitrary. That and I want a little bit of parity in the vote count, because I think it makes for more interesting decisions.

[Glork]

BTW, if I get killed tonight, I'm innocent. Just an FYI.

[Glork]

I'm serious.

[Glork]

I said I'd fully claim in my first post of D2, but that if I die before then, trust that I'm innocent. I'm not going to say anything more at the time.

[Glork]

EBWOP: *at this time.

[Glork]

My cop role PMs say something along the lines of "Once per night, you may attempt to discern the alignment of another player." That attempt may or may not be accurate, so it's up to the Cop to determine their own sanity.

[Glork]

Just as a frame of reference, can everybody please just name the one person whose posting you have found scummiest, regardless of role information? A secondary choice would be just fine and dandy, too.

[Glork]

Dude, this was SB's post:

So, scums out there, I have this wonderful ability that turns scum into town. So, who's scum? Let me help you. It's totally free.

What town player would read that and decide ROLE IS MADE 4 ME? To me, this totally 100% trumps any other play (not that his other play is totally incredible -- it's mostly just a series of exchanges with Pome after she targeted him) and means that Alma is almost certainly scum. His connection with Glork infuriatingly makes him wait-and-see, which makes me grit my teeth even more than the situation with Vaya-SP.

For what it's worth, I wondered (and to a small extent still do) what would happen if SB were to use her ability on me. I even said I was extremely curious to know, though I never went as far as to ask her to use it on me. I can see the mistake being made, though I think it's a grave error to make.

[Glork]

[Glork]

By the way, since I never answered my own question:
My scummiest peoples are Iece and Pom, currently in that order. Though Pom is only slightly behind Iece in terms of scumminess.

[Glork]

SSK's fishiness has increased. With that, I will definitely agree.


One thing that struck me this morning: If I were scum, I'd probably want to keep the cops alive, at least as long as they continue to put faith into their own investigations. I'm not really sure how this reflects on me, since I've stated that I 100% believe Faraday's claim, but take it for what it's worth.

[Glork]

Bleh. In the interests of not mislynching Faraday, I'm going to share a little information.


Remember way back at the very start of the game, when people were wondering about the vagueness of "partial-reveal," and I posted this:

IIIIIIIII know what it means

But I'm not gonna say.

Why not?

I dun wanna.

The partial-reveal means that dead players will be revealed as "Guilty" or "Innocent" without additional information. This jives

perfectly

with what Faraday claimed as getting for his investigation results, so either he happened to guess at how alignments/investigations would work (very highly unlikely), he had inside information about reveals as scum (unlikely at best, though possible), or he's telling the truth.

In this instance, I'm very near certain that Faraday telling the truth about his investigation results. He's definitely a mislynch today.



I will also go on record to state that at least one of the players who just tried to re-rail the JL/Faraday lynch {Phate, SB, SSK} is probably scum. I'm still willing to accept SB as innocent given the manner in which she partial-claimed, so SSK and Phate are both up on my list of potential scums.

[Glork]

EBWOP:

{Phate, SB, SSK}

Add fishy to this list. I skipped over his post, but he definitely goes with the "lynch 'em anyway" plan.

[Glork]

In fact (and you're going to love this, and I sincerely apologize for the quadruple post),

Unvote, Vote: Phate

. I just looked over Vala's posting, and Phate's posting, and I have no idea how he's slid under the radar this long, but he stands out quite a bit to me now.

[Glork]

One thing that struck me this morning: If I were scum, I'd probably want to keep the cops alive, at least as long as they continue to put faith into their own investigations. I'm not really sure how this reflects on me, since I've stated that I 100% believe Faraday's claim, but take it for what it's worth.

I will also go on record to state that at least one of the players who just tried to re-rail the JL/Faraday lynch {Phate, SB, SSK} is probably scum. I'm still willing to accept SB as innocent given the manner in which she partial-claimed, so SSK and Phate are both up on my list of potential scums.

Please resolve the apparent contradiction.

I am not your average MafiaScum player. I'm pretty sure I (still) don't think like most people do.

[Glork]

This would have been my guess, but do you have anything that supports this officially, or is it conjecture? Rather important to establish, IMO.

Official.


Also, to elaborate on the previous point: Scum knee-jerk reaction is "COP! GET IT KILLED!" I'm pretty sure that, given SSK's "99% certainty" of information earlier, that your average player isn't thinking "a cop in a bastard game can do more harm than good." Fishy seems to have recognized this, even going as far as to use it as reasoning to keep his vote on Faraday, so he's lower on my list. Most players, I think, would hold to that initial reaction without thinking "How can I use this Cop to screw over the town?" Heck, the fact that "I would keep the Cop alive" didn't occur to me until today, should tell you that those two posts aren't inconsistent.

[Glork]

I don't think it means much, because I think it takes a certain deviousness and level of bastard-familiarity that most (if not all) of us are lacking. Heck, I played in the first official Bastard Mafia

as scum

and the thought had never occurred to me until just a short while ago.

[Glork]

I'd also like to point out that any remotely playable setup will have safeguards against D1 massclaim winning for the town. D1 is NEVER the time to massclaim, as it will pretty much always benefit scums MUCH, MUCH more than towns.

[Glork]

========[]

[Glork]

Note that Pom adamantly refused to give any explanation why asking for a D1 massclaim is scummy. To the best of my knowledge, neither has anyone else; just reasons why it's generally a bad idea.

Traditionally, people who advocate doing bad things for the town....


.....don't have the town's best interests in mind.

[Glork]

Unvote Phate

I just read his whole claimy thing, and I need to think. It seems to me that there are probably 3-4 players of each "alignment." I would guess that one from each group can convert other players their alignment (a la Snow_Bunny). Another can probably identify others' current alignments to some degree (although the Guilty/Innocent nature makes this... difficult). I'm willing to bet that at least one alignment has a role that can kill other players (else I'd be hard-pressed to call this Mafia of any kind). There are also likely some vanilla sympathizers.

I'm tempted to suggest no-lynching and seeing if we can "convert" everyone to the same group. My only concern with that is that, once one group had a majority of players, then everyone left out of the loop would be "endgamed."

[Glork]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I have this game figured out.


What I'm NOT sure of is who I want to vote for.

[Glork]

UK: I thinik massclaiming will put everyone at an impasse.

Iece: But from Phate's perspective, he is protown and everyone else (Crapple/Linux) is scum.

[Glork]

If I thought it were better to explain, I would have done so already.

I really don't know what to do right now. I truly, honestly don't. I think I need to read back over some stuff and figure out which lynch is most appropriate.


Of course, I could be completely wrong in how I think the setup works... that's actually the main reason I don't want to share. A town operating on bad setup assumptions is more destructive to itself than the scums could ever be.

[Glork]

I just read his whole claimy thing, and I need to think. It seems to me that there are probably 3-4 players of each "alignment." I would guess that one from each group can convert other players their alignment (a la Snow_Bunny). Another can probably identify others' current alignments to some degree (although the Guilty/Innocent nature makes this... difficult). I'm willing to bet that at least one alignment has a role that can kill other players (else I'd be hard-pressed to call this Mafia of any kind). There are also likely some vanilla sympathizers.

I'm tempted to suggest no-lynching and seeing if we can "convert" everyone to the same group. My only concern with that is that, once one group had a majority of players, then everyone left out of the loop would be "endgamed."

Okay, I am increasingly confident that my first paragraph here is correct: We have a few Linux, a few CrApple, and a few WinBlows players, each of which thinks they are protown. My guess was (and still is) that each OS is of identical composition, mostly for balance's sake.

I also think that -- at the very least -- everyone without Linux is some kind of Miller, so we're going to see a lot of "guilties" in this game. My guess is that the cop-roles will get innocents on people of the same OS and guilties on everyone else.

I'm a WinBlows Loyalist, and my role PM also cites me as winning with the town. No special abilities to speak of. If we're going with the "convert everyone we can to Linux" route via Snow_Bunny, I suppose you can sign me up for that list.


I'm not really sure what to say about Faraday, since he seems to be sticking to his Google claim, which doesn't fit in with any of this. I have three theories on this.
1) We really

are

all protown, and the OS thing is all one giant red herring. This actually sounds pretty plausible. If that's the case, Google doesn't fit in with the innocents, Faraday is some kind of Mafia OS Cop, and we need to lynch him.
2) Each OS is a cult whose members were led to believe they were protown. Google et al are genuine OS-less townies, and they're going to be victimized or converted.
3) Each OS is a cult whose members were led to believe they were protown, there's a mafia (which includes FaradayGoogle), and there's not actually a real town.
(Off-Record and out-of-game, I am partial to option 1, because I think it would be by far the most creative form of bastardity. And yes, I just made that a word.)


That said, I think Faraday is probably the safest and most appropriate lynch today. The only problem with the partial reveal is that there's a very strong chance he'll flip "guilty" no matter what, and we'll be unable to confirm or deny anything he has or will say.

Vote: Faraday

[Glork]

I also think that -- at the very least -- everyone without Linux is some kind of Miller, so we're going to see a lot of "guilties" in this game. My guess is that the cop-roles will get innocents on people of the same OS and guilties on everyone else.

Why do you think Fishy was told he was a Miller, then?

That's why I said "at the very least." Having been reminded of that detail, I suppose everyone with an OS is a miller. I'd bet money that you are.

[Glork]

Wow, GNU? That's interesting.

Okay, if you're telling the truth, then maybe that Option 1 I posed is correct. It kind of throws my "3-4 each of 3-4 different OSes" out the window.

That said, Google still isn't an OS (though as I recall, they're trying to design one? I may be mistaken on that, though...)

[Glork]

I still like the idea of "OSes are just a red herring." But that's just me. *shrug*

[Glork]

honestly the "I'll just post something else to make myself look active" sarcastic confession (I already linked the trope) makes things rather terrible.

I was pointing out that the entirety of the last two pages had been fluff. Read the post again.

I completely disagree with this. I think that figuring out where we stand re: setup is

VITAL

to being successful in this particular game. It has a very direct and immensely significant impact on where our lynching priorities lie.

[Glork]

:/