Mini 897 - OpenSource Mafia - Game over!!


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Post Post #375 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:07 pm

Post by Vaya »

I could very easily see Almaster being scum, for a number of reasons, I've been thinking this for a while actually. The thing is though, he's asking to be converted by our alignment converter, so I want to give it a night and see what happens. So I don't think Almaster should be the lynch today.

@Snow_Bunny
If you're not going to claim everything about your ability(for the record, I don't think you're scum, I'm asking because I want to know more about what we're dealing with here), could you at least answer something for me that I don't believe has yet been clarified?

Reading Almaster claimed flavor for why he wants to be converted, do you believe that it fits with you're flavor and that it would have an effect?

Unvote
Vote: Vala Mal Doran


I also want to know who she thinks is scum right now and who she supports the lynch of today. Looking at her posts in iso, I have no idea who she suspects. She's just as guilty, if no more so at this point, of not scumhunting than others who have been accused of it lately.
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Post Post #376 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:24 pm

Post by MafiaSSK »

Pom, your post is just a super extended OMGUS. Being hypocritical is not a scumtell. IIoA is outdated.
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Post Post #377 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:26 pm

Post by Pomegranate »

MafiaSSK wrote:Pom, your post is just a super extended OMGUS. Being hypocritical is not a scumtell. IIoA is outdated.
Did you actually read the post?
Show
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"I didn't want to use you Pom... I never killed you. I didn't endgame you it was my evil buddies!
Sowwy >_<" -scumFate.

"Pom was on my "I will not kill, and I shall seek vengeance upon the death of them" list." -CSL
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Post Post #378 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:30 pm

Post by MafiaSSK »

Pomegranate wrote:
MafiaSSK wrote:Pom, your post is just a super extended OMGUS. Being hypocritical is not a scumtell. IIoA is outdated.
Did you actually read the post?
Yeah, you gave how he was hypocritical about posting little content. I am saying that you were mainly focusing on him being hypocritical and not on him lurking.
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Post Post #379 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:33 pm

Post by Pomegranate »

MafiaSSK wrote:
Pomegranate wrote:
MafiaSSK wrote:Pom, your post is just a super extended OMGUS. Being hypocritical is not a scumtell. IIoA is outdated.
Did you actually read the post?
Yeah, you gave how he was hypocritical about posting little content. I am saying that you were mainly focusing on him being hypocritical and not on him lurking.
I said that he lurked,
and
that he called people out on lurking, which was hypocritical.
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Sowwy >_<" -scumFate.

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Post Post #380 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:36 pm

Post by MafiaSSK »

Pomegranate wrote:
MafiaSSK wrote:
Pomegranate wrote:
MafiaSSK wrote:Pom, your post is just a super extended OMGUS. Being hypocritical is not a scumtell. IIoA is outdated.
Did you actually read the post?
Yeah, you gave how he was hypocritical about posting little content. I am saying that you were mainly focusing on him being hypocritical and not on him lurking.
I said that he lurked,
and
that he called people out on lurking, which was hypocritical.
Then aren't you being hypocritical too?
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Post Post #381 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:41 pm

Post by Pomegranate »

Pomegranate wrote:Top scum pick: Alm.

At first glance, this may seem like OMGUS. But it's not, and let me explain why. [...]
Also, there is more to the case. It still doesn't seem like you've actually read it.
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Post Post #382 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:43 pm

Post by MafiaSSK »

Pomegranate wrote:
Pomegranate wrote:Top scum pick: Alm.

At first glance, this may seem like OMGUS. But it's not, and let me explain why. [...]
Also, there is more to the case. It still doesn't seem like you've actually read it.
So you admit you're being hypocritical by your own logic?

The only other part of your case is IIoA which as I've already stated is outdated.
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Post Post #383 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:47 pm

Post by Pomegranate »

MafiaSSK wrote:
Pomegranate wrote:
Pomegranate wrote:Top scum pick: Alm.

At first glance, this may seem like OMGUS. But it's not, and let me explain why. [...]
Also, there is more to the case. It still doesn't seem like you've actually read it.
So you admit you're being hypocritical by your own logic?
Not really. But I see how you could think so bit.

But according to your own logic,
MafiaSSK wrote:Being hypocritical is not a scumtell.
MafiaSSK wrote:The only other part of your case is IIoA which as I've already stated is outdated.
Why?
Show
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"I didn't want to use you Pom... I never killed you. I didn't endgame you it was my evil buddies!
Sowwy >_<" -scumFate.

"Pom was on my "I will not kill, and I shall seek vengeance upon the death of them" list." -CSL
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Post Post #384 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:50 pm

Post by MafiaSSK »

Pomegranate wrote:
MafiaSSK wrote:
Pomegranate wrote:
Pomegranate wrote:Top scum pick: Alm.

At first glance, this may seem like OMGUS. But it's not, and let me explain why. [...]
Also, there is more to the case. It still doesn't seem like you've actually read it.
So you admit you're being hypocritical by your own logic?
Not really. But I see how you could think so bit.

But according to your own logic,
MafiaSSK wrote:Being hypocritical is not a scumtell.
Yes, but that's my own logic. But by your own it seems you think hypocrisy is a scumtell and you're thus calling yourself scum.
MafiaSSK wrote:The only other part of your case is IIoA which as I've already stated is outdated.
Why?
It's an old wikitell and meta has changed from such.
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Post Post #385 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:08 pm

Post by Pomegranate »

MafiaSSK wrote:
Pomegranate wrote:
MafiaSSK wrote:
Pomegranate wrote:
Pomegranate wrote:Top scum pick: Alm.

At first glance, this may seem like OMGUS. But it's not, and let me explain why. [...]
Also, there is more to the case. It still doesn't seem like you've actually read it.
So you admit you're being hypocritical by your own logic?
Not really. But I see how you could think so bit.

But according to your own logic,
MafiaSSK wrote:Being hypocritical is not a scumtell.
Yes, but that's my own logic. But by your own it seems you think hypocrisy is a scumtell and you're thus calling yourself scum.
I'm getting tired with this. If you can explain why the other points of my case aren't valid, then I will try to explain them.
MafiaSSK wrote:The only other part of your case is IIoA which as I've already stated is outdated.
Why?
It's an old wikitell and meta has changed from such.[/quote]

Not as far as I know. I still see it around as an accusation.

Also, I need to go to sleep.
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Sowwy >_<" -scumFate.

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Post Post #386 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:38 pm

Post by UncertainKitten »

Well, besides MafiaSSK being wrong about IIoA, I am actually immensely enjoying his active participation. It helps me a lot to see what you are thinking overall. I encourage you to continue.

That said, I'm going to bed.
"Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch."
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Post Post #387 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:33 pm

Post by SlySly »

I will be VLA for a few days for Christmas. Happy Holidays everyone!!
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Post Post #388 (ISO) » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:06 am

Post by AlmasterGM »

Pom wrote:At first glance, this may seem like OMGUS. But it's not, and let me explain why.
You read my mind. Badcase is bad.
But most of Alm's posts are short comments or questions based on snippets of quotes. That could be useful if they were good scumhunting questions, and he actually commented on the answers. But he doesn't. He'll ask a question, but I can't tell why, because he doesn't do anything with/based off of the answers, nor do they generate any real content. Moreover, the questions look like he's posting them only so that it seems like he's actually doing something, even though he isn't much.
1) This entire case is hypocritical because you're calling me out for exactly what you're doing. According to your own logic, you should be your number one suspect. Basically, what MafiaSSK said.
2) Your snippits aren't even good evidence. All the posts are very reasonable and are looking for scum. Let's review

"LOL" - In response to an addmitted bad vote.
"I don't think it has anything to do with D1 - in the last game I played with her, she was scum and lurked to victory. Moreover, even if it is D1 only, how is this even remotely acceptable?" - I'm analyzing current play versus past play and explaining why Vaya is a good lynch.
"Ok, so what should we be doing?" - I'm asking you a legitimate question which you took DAYS to answer. And your answer is this bad case. Fancy that.
"I agree that the day probably should last longer, but letting up pressure right now is a poor plan, especially given Pom's most recent badposting." - Once again, I'm stating what I think we should do today and why. How is this scummy?

You're basically saying that, because I'm not posting text walls, I'm scummy. I beg to differ. Text walls are tl;dr. There's nothing wrong with the way I'm posting.
Also, often he will merely agree with a post, and not actually scumhunt:
1) So all my posts have to contain 100% original content? That's absurd.
2) You say I do it "often," but you only have one quote to back it up. So what you really meant to say was "one time." Hmm.
Alm says theory bad but argues theory.
Every single one of my "theory" posts is talking about how we shouldn't rely too much on theory and should focus on scumhunting. I don't see how that's inconsistent or bad. You argument essentially says that telling someone murder is bad is the same as murder. LOL.
All my big posts are speculation.
So what? It was important to discuss, especially given the theme setup.
tl;dr: Almaster is acting very hypocritical regarding posting content, and IIoA.
So are you. I consider this a concession of your own guilt. Every argument here applies to you as well, except I'm actually doing stuff whereas you haven't done anything except try to say I'm not doing anything either. My vote stays. I suggest other people vote for you as well.
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Post Post #389 (ISO) » Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:39 am

Post by Pomegranate »

AlmasterGM wrote:
But most of Alm's posts are short comments or questions based on snippets of quotes. That could be useful if they were good scumhunting questions, and he actually commented on the answers. But he doesn't. He'll ask a question, but I can't tell why, because he doesn't do anything with/based off of the answers, nor do they generate any real content. Moreover, the questions look like he's posting them only so that it seems like he's actually doing something, even though he isn't much.
1) This entire case is hypocritical because you're calling me out for exactly what you're doing. According to your own logic, you should be your number one suspect. Basically, what MafiaSSK said.
I was asked to state my top suspect. I thought about it, then looked through the player list again. I found you to be the scummiest. Let's see why:
2) Your snippits aren't even good evidence. All the posts are very reasonable and are looking for scum. Let's review

"LOL" - In response to an addmitted bad vote.
K.
"I don't think it has anything to do with D1 - in the last game I played with her, she was scum and lurked to victory. Moreover, even if it is D1 only, how is this even remotely acceptable?" - I'm analyzing current play versus past play and explaining why Vaya is a good lynch.
This is pushing a policy lynch. There are different opinions about policy lynching, and mine is that it's not good. Vaya almost always lurks, whether she's town or scum. The fact that she lurked to victory in another game doesn't mean that she's a good D1 lynch for us.
"Ok, so what should we be doing?" - I'm asking you a legitimate question which you took DAYS to answer. And your answer is this bad case. Fancy that.
It seemed a lot more like, "I don't really know what to do right now, so asking a question of what to do now is a good idea. It even looks like scumhunting." The fact that you didn't give an opinion about what to do yourself makes it scummier.

Like this posts. You said VMD was fence-sitting, which she was. But the fact that you yourself didn't give an opinion... you may as well have fence-sat yourself.
AlmasterGM wrote:
Vala Mal Doran wrote:
Vala Mal Doran wrote:Wait, are you
sure
you get confirmation that the alignment was successfully changed? Did the PM state so outright? This
is
a bastard game, after all.
Still waiting on a reply to this from S_B. Just sayin'.

I prefer not to take a side on the SP/Vaya thing just yet; neither particularly jumps out at me at this time. I realize it's page 7, but I still feel like not much of note has happened. :?
Blatant fence-sit.
"I agree that the day probably should last longer, but letting up pressure right now is a poor plan, especially given Pom's most recent badposting." - Once again, I'm stating what I think we should do today and why. How is this scummy?
In this post you use the term 'once again'. When was the first time you said what you thought we shoud do?
You're basically saying that, because I'm not posting text walls, I'm scummy. I beg to differ. Text walls are tl;dr. There's nothing wrong with the way I'm posting.


There's nothing wrong with posting comments in response to snippets, if you actually post content. An example of this is UK.
Also, often he will merely agree with a post, and not actually scumhunt:
1) So all my posts have to contain 100% original content? That's absurd.
2) You say I do it "often," but you only have one quote to back it up. So what you really meant to say was "one time." Hmm.
No, I'm pretty sure there were a couple more times, but I just didn't include them.
Alm says theory bad but argues theory.
Every single one of my "theory" posts is talking about how we shouldn't rely too much on theory and should focus on scumhunting. I don't see how that's inconsistent or bad. You argument essentially says that telling someone murder is bad is the same as murder. LOL.
I think a better analogy to what I'm saying is that explaining to someone that murder is bad by murdering and showing what happens is as bad as average murder.
All my big posts are speculation.
So what? It was important to discuss, especially given the theme setup.
K. But I still found that there wasn't much actual scumhunting going on.
tl;dr: Almaster is acting very hypocritical regarding posting content, and IIoA.
So are you. I consider this a concession of your own guilt. Every argument here applies to you as well, except I'm actually doing stuff whereas you haven't done anything except try to say I'm not doing anything either. My vote stays. I suggest other people vote for you as well.
And if you read through my case, and this post, you can see that I'm not just being hypocritical.
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Sowwy >_<" -scumFate.

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Post Post #390 (ISO) » Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:26 pm

Post by Vala Mal Doran »

Prod avoidance. I just haven't had time for this lately, what with working retail and all. >_< Hopefully getting around to this tomorrow.
And as your mother, you will listen to me, young lady. There will be no leading of these ships and armies on a mass-murdering crusade. Or else.
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Post Post #391 (ISO) » Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:42 pm

Post by Fishythefish »

I don't have time to catch up properly right now - Christmas is proving difficult. I'll have lots of time to catch up on the 29th at the latest, and probably before. Sorry.
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Post Post #392 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 5:16 pm

Post by AlmasterGM »

Pom wrote:I was asked to state my top suspect. I thought about it, then looked through the player list again. I found you to be the scummiest. Let's see why:
1) This is non-responsive. The point stands that, according to your own case, you should be lynched.
2) Your methodology for arriving at me as the top suspect SCREAMS scum. You didn't "read the thread," you "looked through the player list." In other words, you sat down, picked me, and tunneled in a hunt for evidence. You might not have even read the thread - for all we know, you just viewed me in iso and that's your case. This makes your results susceptible to all sorts of psychological problems - confirmation bias being the most obvious. Scum-E.
This is pushing a policy lynch. There are different opinions about policy lynching, and mine is that it's not good. Vaya almost always lurks, whether she's town or scum. The fact that she lurked to victory in another game doesn't mean that she's a good D1 lynch for us.
Shifting advocacy. First you said my post was scummy because it lacked content. Now you conceede that it has content, but are saying that the content is bad. You're stretching. On top of that, your stretchy logic is false - lurking is scummy, so why was it bad to lynch someone who is a chronic scumlurker and was lurking then?
It seemed a lot more like, "I don't really know what to do right now, so asking a question of what to do now is a good idea. It even looks like scumhunting." The fact that you didn't give an opinion about what to do yourself makes it scummier.
1) People use this scumtell all the time and it's bad.
2) How did I not give an opinion?? I've placed multiple votes throughout this game and made it very clear who I think is scummy. You, on the other hand, have only voted
ONCE,
and that vote came from the RVS.
Like this posts. You said VMD was fence-sitting, which she was. But the fact that you yourself didn't give an opinion... you may as well have fence-sat yourself.
My opinion is that she was fencesitting. My other opinons are clear by my votes and frequent declarations of who I suspect. Do I have to spell out in bold letters that fencesitting is scummy? I'm pretty sure my intention was crystal clear. You are being absurd.

In this post you use the term 'once again'. When was the first time you said what you thought we shoud do?
Um, all the time. Go read me in iso.
No, I'm pretty sure there were a couple more times, but I just didn't include them.
Quotes or it didn't happen.
K. But I still found that there wasn't much actual scumhunting going on.
The amount of scumhunting I've done > The amount of scumhunting you've done.
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Post Post #393 (ISO) » Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:23 am

Post by Snow_Bunny »

Ah, you guys post too much for me to catch up right now. For now, let's just answer this:
Vaya wrote:@Snow_Bunny
If you're not going to claim everything about your ability(for the record, I don't think you're scum, I'm asking because I want to know more about what we're dealing with here), could you at least answer something for me that I don't believe has yet been clarified?

Reading Almaster claimed flavor for why he wants to be converted, do you believe that it fits with you're flavor and that it would have an effect?
Well, my flavour mentions none of that. That's why, if he's a miller, I rather not use it on him. I wouldn't want to turn him into scum.
I remember somebody saying that I would distribute Linux's cds for free, but that's not quite what I do.
Taking a long break from mafia games.

In honor of Erika Furudo, my first scum win (Umineko Mafia).
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Post Post #394 (ISO) » Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:07 am

Post by Iecerint »

Pome, what do you make of Alma's request for alignment change, and do you think that affects how we should treat Alma? If so, how?
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Post Post #395 (ISO) » Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:00 am

Post by Glork »

Quick post from my phone to say I'll be gone one extra day, until Monday night. Haven't read anything since my last post, will catch up and post Monday.

Hope you're all enjoying your holidays...
Green Shirt Thursdays


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Post Post #396 (ISO) » Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:48 am

Post by AlmasterGM »

Iecerint wrote:Pome, what do you make of Alma's request for alignment change, and do you think that affects how we should treat Alma? If so, how?
What do YOU think of it?
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Post Post #397 (ISO) » Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:57 am

Post by Iecerint »

I have an opinion on the subject, but I want Pome to give hers first. I'll say that I think your SB interaction is very important and Pome appears to have minimized it except to point out that it wasn't scumhunting.
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Post Post #398 (ISO) » Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:24 am

Post by MafiaSSK »

Iecerint wrote:I have an opinion on the subject, but I want Pome to give hers first. I'll say that I think your SB interaction is very important and Pome appears to have minimized it except to point out that it wasn't scumhunting.
Why did you want to hide this much?
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Post Post #399 (ISO) » Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:32 pm

Post by Vaya »

Almaster, do you still think Snow_Bunny should target you tonight, given what she said above?

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